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Why do limbs break so easily?


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#41 Offline Phovos

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Posted Apr 08 2014 - 08:48 AM

Most of my pieces are broken now. I think it's because of the hot, humid, dusty weather here, but I am certain that pieces from 2006 and later break more than before then. My Tahnok-Kal celebrates his 11th birthday this August and a lot of his parts have had to be replaced, but the same applies to my Tahu Stars, which I can no longer even build because all but one of his limbs snapped, one of his hands snapped and his head snapped. The only remaining pieces I have are his body, mask, sword and feet.


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#42 Offline The Kumquat Alchemist

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Posted Apr 09 2014 - 08:55 AM

Most of my pieces are broken now. I think it's because of the hot, humid, dusty weather here, but I am certain that pieces from 2006 and later break more than before then. My Tahnok-Kal celebrates his 11th birthday this August and a lot of his parts have had to be replaced, but the same applies to my Tahu Stars, which I can no longer even build because all but one of his limbs snapped, one of his hands snapped and his head snapped. The only remaining pieces I have are his body, mask, sword and feet.

 

This is why my Tahu star holds the honoured position of the always-assembled; being such an iconic figure, and one of the last BIONICLE toys ever released, I decided to keep him together for fear of broken limbs.


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#43 Offline Tattorack

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Posted Apr 09 2014 - 01:29 PM

Pre-2006 are made of a kind of more oily plastic.

I have the sense that the older parts are softer or more "pasty" somehow in my fingers.

The newer Bionicle parts felt "dead", they are very unmoving and quite brittle. "Stronger" parts is complete nonsense, they're thinner at the parts where the ball goes in.


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#44 Offline Lyichir

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Posted Apr 09 2014 - 03:47 PM

Pre-2006 are made of a kind of more oily plastic.

I have the sense that the older parts are softer or more "pasty" somehow in my fingers.

The newer Bionicle parts felt "dead", they are very unmoving and quite brittle. "Stronger" parts is complete nonsense, they're thinner at the parts where the ball goes in.

The plastic formulation never changed in the way you described or to the degree you described.


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#45 Offline Unikitty Tekulo

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Posted Apr 09 2014 - 04:02 PM

 I ended up sacrificing Matoro

 

My Matoro beat me to it...  =P

 

But, yes, I have had many issues with sets from 06 onwards where their limbs would break.  Some of them even broke when I first put the set together.  My Tahu Star's set had both ends of the socket for his leg broken so I can't even put him completely back together.  It was too late at the time it happened to order a replacement piece, so now he is forever hopping along to save the day.

 

Even so, I have never had this problem with slizers or from any sets between 01 through 05.


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#46 Offline Kopekemaster

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Posted Apr 09 2014 - 04:47 PM

I noticed it more once they switched over to the smoothed-over concave parts, instead of the ones with visible grooves.

Meaning, a change from this style:

32174.png

 

To this style:

60176.1206079819.jpg


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#47 Offline Tattorack

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Posted Apr 09 2014 - 05:44 PM

 

Pre-2006 are made of a kind of more oily plastic.

I have the sense that the older parts are softer or more "pasty" somehow in my fingers.

The newer Bionicle parts felt "dead", they are very unmoving and quite brittle. "Stronger" parts is complete nonsense, they're thinner at the parts where the ball goes in.

The plastic formulation never changed in the way you described or to the degree you described.

 

Not true, both plastics burn differantly.

(Tested with a candle and a part that broke off a black newer piece, and one older part that had a pretty solid impact during an accident).

 

I noticed it more once they switched over to the smoothed-over concave parts, instead of the ones with visible grooves.

Meaning, a change from this style:

32174.png

 

To this style:

60176.1206079819.jpg

And it was a change for the worse.

I really do not understand how the new piece can be considered more reenforced...


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#48 Offline Lyichir

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Posted Apr 09 2014 - 06:59 PM

Pre-2006 are made of a kind of more oily plastic.
I have the sense that the older parts are softer or more "pasty" somehow in my fingers.
The newer Bionicle parts felt "dead", they are very unmoving and quite brittle. "Stronger" parts is complete nonsense, they're thinner at the parts where the ball goes in.

The plastic formulation never changed in the way you described or to the degree you described.

Not true, both plastics burn differantly.
(Tested with a candle and a part that broke off a black newer piece, and one older part that had a pretty solid impact during an accident).
 

I noticed it more once they switched over to the smoothed-over concave parts, instead of the ones with visible grooves.
Meaning, a change from this style:
32174.png
 
To this style:
60176.1206079819.jpg

And it was a change for the worse.
I really do not understand how the new piece can be considered more reenforced...


If you have pictures of your "flame test" I'd be interested in seeing them. The only change in plastic formulation over the course of Bionicle's run was the shift from pre-dyed plastic granulate to uncolored plastic granulate with dye added during production. That shouldn't have changed the way the parts burned, so assuming you're actually comparing two ABS parts (and not, say, an ABS part and a Polycarbonate part), they should have pretty much the same properties.

As for the second style of ball cup, it is only more reinforced in that it does not flex as much due to the lack of slots on the side. This is by most accounts a bad thing, since while it made unbroken joints slightly firmer, the slots relieved stress and the lack of them meant that the new versions tended to break more through ordinary use. The new style from Hero Factory (and the earlier style from Ben 10 limbs) also lacks slots but Lego had the good sense to significantly thicken the ends of the cup so that they would no longer crack.

Edited by Lyichir, Apr 09 2014 - 07:03 PM.

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#49 Offline Tattorack

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Posted Apr 09 2014 - 07:47 PM

As for the second style of ball cup, it is only more reinforced in that it does not flex as much due to the lack of slots on the side. This is by most accounts a bad thing, since while it made unbroken joints slightly firmer, the slots relieved stress and the lack of them meant that the new versions tended to break more through ordinary use. The new style from Hero Factory (and the earlier style from Ben 10 limbs) also lacks slots but Lego had the good sense to significantly thicken the ends of the cup so that they would no longer crack.

 

Here's wishing they'd done that a little sooner <_<


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#50 Offline Bioni-Man

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Posted Apr 09 2014 - 08:12 PM

Yeah, me and my buddy agree that one of the best things that came from HF was their "invincible" joints :P


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#51 Offline Aanchir: Rachira of Time

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Posted Apr 09 2014 - 08:19 PM

As for the second style of ball cup, it is only more reinforced in that it does not flex as much due to the lack of slots on the side. This is by most accounts a bad thing, since while it made unbroken joints slightly firmer, the slots relieved stress and the lack of them meant that the new versions tended to break more through ordinary use. The new style from Hero Factory (and the earlier style from Ben 10 limbs) also lacks slots but Lego had the good sense to significantly thicken the ends of the cup so that they would no longer crack.

Here's wishing they'd done that a little sooner <_<

Well, you know what they say — hindsight is 20/20. I imagine part of the reason the LEGO Group held off on thickening the ends of the ball cup is that they wanted the holes on the sides of the ball cup to fit a Technic pin or axle. That's not possible with the new Hero Factory Y-joints or other parts with the current style of ball cup. Nor is it possible with the ball cups in the Ben 10 sets, which were similarly reinforced but still had flat ends like the BIONICLE and Hero Factory ball cups between 2008 and 2010.

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#52 Offline Tahu Nuva 3.0

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Posted Apr 10 2014 - 12:33 AM

I know your pain. This has kept me from MOCing with any of the newer parts from 2008+. Its a shame.,..


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#53 Offline Tattorack

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Posted Apr 10 2014 - 04:25 AM

 

 

As for the second style of ball cup, it is only more reinforced in that it does not flex as much due to the lack of slots on the side. This is by most accounts a bad thing, since while it made unbroken joints slightly firmer, the slots relieved stress and the lack of them meant that the new versions tended to break more through ordinary use. The new style from Hero Factory (and the earlier style from Ben 10 limbs) also lacks slots but Lego had the good sense to significantly thicken the ends of the cup so that they would no longer crack.

Here's wishing they'd done that a little sooner <_<

 

Well, you know what they say — hindsight is 20/20. I imagine part of the reason the LEGO Group held off on thickening the ends of the ball cup is that they wanted the holes on the sides of the ball cup to fit a Technic pin or axle. That's not possible with the new Hero Factory Y-joints or other parts with the current style of ball cup. Nor is it possible with the ball cups in the Ben 10 sets, which were similarly reinforced but still had flat ends like the BIONICLE and Hero Factory ball cups between 2008 and 2010.

 

But.. what was the problem keeping the older type sockets?? I wouldn't dare putting an axel through 2008 type parts; tried it once on a perfectly good piece and the part litteraly burst appart there!

 

I know your pain. This has kept me from MOCing with any of the newer parts from 2008+. Its a shame.,..

Those are unfortunately the majority of the socket parts I have...


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#54 Offline Phovos

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Posted Apr 10 2014 - 04:40 AM

Can I just say, kudos to those silver Bohrok-Kal hand pieces. They're my oldest pieces yet they're also the least broken and suffered the least from loss of friction. I've found though that not only do the ball joint thingies break, but the top of the cross socket thing also has a nasty habit of snapping off. About 70% of all my hand parts have suffered from this, greatly reducing my MOC skills.


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#55 Offline Dragonstar7

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Posted Apr 10 2014 - 06:34 PM

Those 2008 parts just messed everything up.


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#56 Offline Pomegranate

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Posted Apr 10 2014 - 07:44 PM

Can I just say, kudos to those silver Bohrok-Kal hand pieces. They're my oldest pieces yet they're also the least broken and suffered the least from loss of friction. I've found though that not only do the ball joint thingies break, but the top of the cross socket thing also has a nasty habit of snapping off. About 70% of all my hand parts have suffered from this, greatly reducing my MOC skills.

I don't know if it's just that particular silver plastic, but mine have survived as well and are still doing a great job. If it proves anything, it's that years and years down the line the Bohrok-Kal are still tough to beat :P


Edited by Pomegranate, Apr 10 2014 - 07:44 PM.

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#57 Offline The Kumquat Alchemist

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Posted Apr 11 2014 - 12:14 AM

Can I just say, kudos to those silver Bohrok-Kal hand pieces. They're my oldest pieces yet they're also the least broken and suffered the least from loss of friction. I've found though that not only do the ball joint thingies break, but the top of the cross socket thing also has a nasty habit of snapping off. About 70% of all my hand parts have suffered from this, greatly reducing my MOC skills.

Oh, Phovos, I share this pain, the problem of the upper cross-pin holder breaking.

 

I had a fine collection of Throwbots once, and now whenever I even make a sideways glance at my beautiful teal and purple socket pieces, the tops crack down the middle, lose all ability to hold a technic pin firmly, and eventually snap off completely. What's worse, I fear every socket of mine, old, 2008, and HF, will suffer the same fate, since LEGO has never (to my knowledge) changed the shape of that upper portion.


Edited by The Kumquat Alchemist, Apr 11 2014 - 12:15 AM.

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#58 Offline Tattorack

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Posted Apr 11 2014 - 06:38 AM

 

Can I just say, kudos to those silver Bohrok-Kal hand pieces. They're my oldest pieces yet they're also the least broken and suffered the least from loss of friction. I've found though that not only do the ball joint thingies break, but the top of the cross socket thing also has a nasty habit of snapping off. About 70% of all my hand parts have suffered from this, greatly reducing my MOC skills.

I don't know if it's just that particular silver plastic, but mine have survived as well and are still doing a great job. If it proves anything, it's that years and years down the line the Bohrok-Kal are still tough to beat :P

 

I got blacl, white, dark green, and blue parts from 2002 and 2003 that work as stiff as ever and don't have a scratch on them ^^


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#59 Offline dragonzrmetal

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Posted Apr 11 2014 - 06:46 AM

I've found the new hand parts from the glatorian tend to crack, did anyone else find that?


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#60 Offline Lyichir

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Posted Apr 11 2014 - 12:00 PM

I've found the new hand parts from the glatorian tend to crack, did anyone else find that?


They have the same fragile joints as the other 2008 parts with ball cups, so yes, they would break about as often.

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#61 Offline Kopekemaster

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Posted Apr 11 2014 - 12:20 PM

 

Can I just say, kudos to those silver Bohrok-Kal hand pieces. They're my oldest pieces yet they're also the least broken and suffered the least from loss of friction. I've found though that not only do the ball joint thingies break, but the top of the cross socket thing also has a nasty habit of snapping off. About 70% of all my hand parts have suffered from this, greatly reducing my MOC skills.

I don't know if it's just that particular silver plastic, but mine have survived as well and are still doing a great job. If it proves anything, it's that years and years down the line the Bohrok-Kal are still tough to beat :P

 

Hmm. For me, several of them have broken.

Weird.

 

But I've also noticed that some brown hand pieces (from 2006 maybe?) break easily.


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#62 Offline Phovos

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Posted Apr 12 2014 - 04:58 AM

Oh, Phovos, I share this pain, the problem of the upper cross-pin holder breaking.
 
I had a fine collection of Throwbots once, and now whenever I even make a sideways glance at my beautiful teal and purple socket pieces, the tops crack down the middle, lose all ability to hold a technic pin firmly, and eventually snap off completely. What's worse, I fear every socket of mine, old, 2008, and HF, will suffer the same fate, since LEGO has never (to my knowledge) changed the shape of that upper portion.


To be fair, some of my Bohrok-Kal pieces have broken, but compared to other sets which I have lots of *coughToaNuvaToaMetruBarakicough*, they're far better.

Pretty much all my sockets though have suffered this fate. Even newer HF pieces, I've got quite a few broken ones. I am STUPIDLY careful with my parts, so it can't be negligence, I don't know what it is that makes SO MANY of my parts snap and break.

Oh yay, 4200th post.

Edited by Phovos, Apr 12 2014 - 04:58 AM.

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#63 Offline BionicleBordeaux

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Posted Apr 12 2014 - 11:30 AM

Well…at least eBay is there for you..


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#64 Offline Flamewing Studios

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Posted Apr 12 2014 - 02:28 PM

Well…at least eBay is there for you..

Bricklink is still better :P


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#65 Offline Aanchir: Rachira of Time

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Posted Apr 12 2014 - 03:24 PM

Oh, Phovos, I share this pain, the problem of the upper cross-pin holder breaking.
 
I had a fine collection of Throwbots once, and now whenever I even make a sideways glance at my beautiful teal and purple socket pieces, the tops crack down the middle, lose all ability to hold a technic pin firmly, and eventually snap off completely. What's worse, I fear every socket of mine, old, 2008, and HF, will suffer the same fate, since LEGO has never (to my knowledge) changed the shape of that upper portion.


To be fair, some of my Bohrok-Kal pieces have broken, but compared to other sets which I have lots of *coughToaNuvaToaMetruBarakicough*, they're far better.

Pretty much all my sockets though have suffered this fate. Even newer HF pieces, I've got quite a few broken ones. I am STUPIDLY careful with my parts, so it can't be negligence, I don't know what it is that makes SO MANY of my parts snap and break.

Oh yay, 4200th post.

Yeah, some of my Bohrok-Kal feet have broken, so I don't think there's anything especially resilient about that silver plastic.

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