Olmak limits

[Toatapio Nuva]

I found myself wondering how exactly the Olmak is used. I came up with a lot of questions.

 

1. Do you have to know the place you're creating a portal to? If not, how do you know where the portal will lead to?

 

2. Is there a defined radius or could an Olmak user theoretically create a portal to another planet of a different stellar system?

 

3. What about all the alternate dimensions, how can you create portals there if you have never even been to the place?

 

4. Is there sort of a "random" function in the mask, allowing you to create random portals? I know Vezon did, but his condition was kind of exceptional so just wondering.

 

5. When a portal is created, is there interaction between the different environments of the places? Like if a portal leading to an underwater place was created, would the water rush through the portal to the place where the Olmak was used? And if a portal was created to space, would all air be sucked into the vacuum? Or is there some kind of a force separating the two places, only allowing physical objects to pass? Wouldn't water qualify as "physical" in that case?

 

6. The portal closes when someone passes through it, but does this apply to objects as well? If a huge boulder was thrown through the boulder, would that be enough to close the portal?

 

[Loading...]

#2 is the only one I can be slightly sure of:

 

Considering that Olmak users have been shown to be capable of creating portals to entirely separate universes, or from Metru-Nui to Karda-Nui, then I'd guess there's no limit on distance so long as the user is skilled enough, and possibly if they know the destination in question (depending on the answer to your first question).

 

Unsure on all others.

[fishers64]

I found myself wondering how exactly the Olmak is used. I came up with a lot of questions.

 

1. Do you have to know the place you're creating a portal to? If not, how do you know where the portal will lead to?

 

2. Is there a defined radius or could an Olmak user theoretically create a portal to another planet of a different stellar system?

 

3. What about all the alternate dimensions, how can you create portals there if you have never even been to the place?

I think the mask operates off of thought commands. So if you think of Metru Nui and command the mask to open a portal there, it will. Or if you think of a forest, it will show you a forest from an alt. dimension, probably one closest dimensionally to yours or at random. I think that this works for people too, so if you wanted to open a portal to somebody, somewhere, I think you can open it. The mask operates off the desires of the user, without requiring such detail as "Toa Empire Dimension, forest on Southern Continent." (Whether the name "Toa Empire Dimension" even exists in Bionicle is another debate.)

 

One thing that sticks me is whether the Olmak allows intradimensional travel, i.e. you can just transport yourself to Metru Nui through a portal at anytime. Is that possible? I don't think it would be, but Brutahka sort of implied it with the Tahtorak thing.

 

4. Is there sort of a "random" function in the mask, allowing you to create random portals? I know Vezon did, but his condition was kind of exceptional so just wondering.

I don't think so.

 

5. When a portal is created, is there interaction between the different environments of the places? Like if a portal leading to an underwater place was created, would the water rush through the portal to the place where the Olmak was used? And if a portal was created to space, would all air be sucked into the vacuum? Or is there some kind of a force separating the two places, only allowing physical objects to pass? Wouldn't water qualify as "physical" in that case?

There was implied to be trans-dimensional space, and the Olmak bridges that. I could see it happening either way, so not sure.

 

6. The portal closes when someone passes through it, but does this apply to objects as well? If a huge boulder was thrown through the boulder, would that be enough to close the portal?

Nah.

 

However, I think an Olmak user can close their portal anytime they want to. I could totally see an Olmak user opening a portal, throwing a rock through, and then closing it.

[bonesiii]

1. Do you have to know the place you're creating a portal to? If not, how do you know where the portal will lead to?

This is really two questions:

 

1) It is logically impossible that you would have to know the place prior to opening a portal to another dimension, as then you could never use the mask. Possibly it would work for locations in your dimension (Brutaka might have had to visit Metru Nui, or at least have a clear idea of where it is and what it is, before sending a Tahtorak there, for example). And technically, it's possible some other power or technology would handle exploring other dimensions first and then you could need to know about them first to use the Olmak to get there. But this is almost certainly not the case.

 

1.5) Not sure if this is what you mean, but the question makes me think of something I noticed while writing the part of my retelling about Takanuva's interdimensional journey (just the other day), which is that at least once, Brutaka opened a portal, and immediately declared what could be found at the other side. To me this implies he had already experimentally connected to this place (although probably not personally visiting; I think it was deadly, but he might have peered in before and figured out what he was seeing), and thus he must be able to reconnect to dimensions he has connected to previously. So, there must be a way to tell that you're going back to a previously visited dimension. My retelling features a theory as to how that works, which is spoilers so I can't say it now.

 

2. Is there a defined radius or could an Olmak user theoretically create a portal to another planet of a different stellar system?

#2 is the only one I can be slightly sure of:

 

Considering that Olmak users have been shown to be capable of creating portals to entirely separate universes, or from Metru-Nui to Karda-Nui, then I'd guess there's no limit on distance so long as the user is skilled enough, and possibly if they know the destination in question (depending on the answer to your first question).

Not necessarily; there is the possibility that distance from a "dimensional point" to another dimensional point has a range, just like distance within a dimension. It seems that if there is a range, this is implied.

 

However, what defines that distance is confusing. By a definition I featured in my fanfic Endless Blue, the more different a dimension is, theoretically the more distant (not counting pockets like City of Silver, Tuyet-prison, or Zivon's realm). The Kingdom is extremely different as a vast amount of time passed, which in my system I picture as an angle deviating strongly, approaching 90 degrees off from the original, so the Olmak going "sideways" creates a very long and pointed triangle to reach "present" there. The dimensional distance it would thus travel is enormous. In this interpretation, the only "range" is that it MUST be in the present, no time travel. (So it reached the "future" of the Kingdom only because of that vast angle, making time seem to go much faster there compared to Core D.)

 

Note that Takanuva didn't get TO the Kingdom via an Olmak; he went to the Silver pocket dimension, and the Spectral Hau then (for some reason; I also have a theory to this in my story) sent him to an alternate dimension, which was the Kingdom. However, the Brutaka there did sent him "back" toward the Core dimension, to Tuyet's Empire dimension where time flowed normally (I think... or close to it). So it's still relevant to showing what the Olmak can do, and notice this Brutaka's Olmak wasn't damaged, so we can't attribute the crossing of immense distance to the damage in Core Brutaka's mask.

 

Note that he went from Kingdom Mata Nui Island to Toa Empire Metru Nui, and from there to Core Karda Nui. So, the physical location range is quite vast, far more than for your typical Great Mask. That makes sense, as it's going through interdimensional space, like taking a shortcut. Is it possible there IS a range limit to where shortcuts can go to, either in physical space or interdimensional?

 

Sure, that's possible. Maybe Brutaka can't just hop over to Bara Magna? And maybe the dimensions he can visit have to have deviated at a "recent" point. Still, that universe of light beings seems to disprove this; it sounds very different. Unless there was some kind of catastrophe that made them "eat" everything else. (Note: I'm rusty on just what exactly he said about this place though, just going off of memory.)

 

Bottom line is, we just don't know. We only know it can't do proper time travel.

 

(But it does make you think... man, this thing really should be considered a Legendary mask. Although the difference is if it is destroyed, it just stops working. Still, the thing rivals even the Legendary masks we have in terms of sheer power of possible effect.)

 

3. What about all the alternate dimensions, how can you create portals there if you have never even been to the place?

4. Is there sort of a "random" function in the mask, allowing you to create random portals? I know Vezon did, but his condition was kind of exceptional so just wondering.

Sure seems like there has to be, but it might not be so much random as consciously (or subconsciously) thinking of features you want the target dimension to have, and the mask "googles it". It's possible Vezon's insane mind was subconsciously requesting those locations. Kingdom Brutaka seems to have intentionally gotten Takanuva closer to home, and apparently Takanuva even tricked Tuyet into choosing his own dimension as her target (which is hopelessly unlikely unless he were a Toa of Psionics... yes, theory in retelling ).

 

5. When a portal is created, is there interaction between the different environments of the places? Like if a portal leading to an underwater place was created, would the water rush through the portal to the place where the Olmak was used?

With the possible exception of air, most likely not. The end of the Tuyet story made it clear that one portal opens into interdimensional space, there's a bit of distance where things can fly off into the side of that, and then a second portal connects from interdimensional space to the target destination. Normally you're supposed to leap right through, and momentum will carry you, but Empress Tuyet messed it up, leading to her own death. I play around with the physics of this more too in mine (there's also a canon contradiction here I don't know if anyone else has noticed, in that in the actual story, Takanuva goes through the portal slowly, having time to look back, but in the comic, he emerges as if he had leaped right through -- "mid-leap" -- so I change it a bit from canon but there's a comment explaining this). The Olmak got thrown off into interdimensional space because of this.

 

This seems to imply that if water were to go through, it's more likely to fly off into interdimensional space than to go through the second portal, although momentum would certainly make some of it go there. This just seems very messy, so more likely the power accounts for such things, putting limitations on what can cross over a wall of resistance.

 

As for air, I decided to avoid the issue with paranoid holding of breath. It's possible air just fills the intermediate space as a normal procedure of the mask, but I doubt it because then it should theoretically fly off, like the Olmak did. Or if air can't go through a wall around it, it's odd that solids would be allowed to, since users are solid. So, probably no air, and thus probably no water. (If there's no boundaries to air at all, then opening a portal should be like opening an airlock in space; incredibly strong winds should blast everybody into IDS like being sucked up by a giant vacuum cleaner.)

 

Also, the light beings didn't come through, for example. On the other hand, the portal closes automatically, even if solid matter is in the way (hence Tuyet's death), so if it happened, the water would get cut off. So no "the water coming through is holding it open! We're doomed!" scenarios... Although if you're in a confined space you might be doomed anyways.

 

And if a portal was created to space, would all air be sucked into the vacuum? Or is there some kind of a force separating the two places, only allowing physical objects to pass? Wouldn't water qualify as "physical" in that case?

It probably requires a conscious will to pass through, probably of a sapient being, or of the user willing it. It may require a solid. Or you might be right about the water, and the user just has to be cautious.

 

As for a vacuum, under my interpretation, no; air might or might not temporarily fill a tunnel through IDS, but would not pass through to the other side. But my interpretation might be wrong.

 

6. The portal closes when someone passes through it, but does this apply to objects as well? If a huge boulder was thrown through the boulder, would that be enough to close the portal?

It closes when the user wills it to, or when a time limit is reached, or when the user loses focus on keeping it open. It seems that if it's the latter, then they can't get it opening again once it starts closing. But it may just be a time limit plus the option of closing it early. I say this because Tuyet had every reason to want it not to close yet; she hadn't yet passed all the way through, and failing to keep it open proved fatal.

 

So, if someone throws a boulder through (assuming this works at all considering it has no mind), it still will only close after the time or if user closes it. Theoretically...

Edited February 3, 2014 by bonesiii

[Toatapio Nuva]

Regarding #2, I was more interested in portal creation within the same dimension.

 

As for #6...

 

6. The portal closes when someone passes through it, but does this apply to objects as well? If a huge boulder was thrown through the boulder, would that be enough to close the portal?

It closes when the user wills it to, or when a time limit is reached, or when the user loses focus on keeping it open. It seems that if it's the latter, then they can't get it opening again once it starts closing. But it may just be a time limit plus the option of closing it early. I say this because Tuyet had every reason to want it not to close yet; she hadn't yet passed all the way through, and failing to keep it open proved fatal.

 

So, if someone throws a boulder through (assuming this works at all considering it has no mind), it still will only close after the time or if user closes it. Theoretically...

 

 

It's stated in Inferno that a portal created by the Olmak remains in existence as long as someone passes through it. So it's not only dependent on the will of the user. That's what sparked the question of inanimate objects.

 

Your answers so far have given a lot of insight into this, thank you for that.

 

@bonesii: What is this retelling of your you've been mentioning and where can you read it?

Edited February 4, 2014 by Toatapio Nuva

[Chro]

You can't read it yet because he hasn't released it (it's not finished)... but he's basically rewriting the entire story, but in such a way that includes his own theories and whatnot.

I will say, bones, it's a biiit annoying when you say "I have the answer to your question but can't tell you because it's in my fanfic!" or something to that effect.

 

Sorry, I realize that's off topic. Back to the Olmak.

Edited February 4, 2014 by Chro

[fishers64]

"Why should I waste my blade on you, when I can transport you far from here?" Brutaka asked, laughing. "Go ahead, Axonn, attack me. Even if you knock me out, that gate will keep after you until it draws you inside. It won't disappear until someone has passed through it, and that someone is you."

 

Axonn saw the gate advancing rapidly, threatening to envelop him. He couldn't see anything inside it, only deep darkness. He knew Brutaka's power - the gate might lead to someplace else on Voya Nui or any another island, or even to another dimension entirely. No matter the destination, he knew he would wind up too far away to stop Brutaka.

 

 

It would seem that how the portal closes would be under the user's command when the portal is formed. So portals can be "programmed" by the user to advance toward someone and close when a person passes though, apparently.

 

The Olmak may also be "keyed" to the MU, allowing the user to travel anywhere, and to any dimension, with that structure. Beyond that it's usage is less certain, although Axonn's perspective might also play in here. Vezon "randomly" traveled to alternate SMs though, so maybe the physical location of the user plays a role.

Edited February 4, 2014 by fishers64

[bonesiii]

It would seem that how the portal closes would be under the user's command when the portal is formed. So portals can be "programmed" by the user to advance toward someone and close when a person passes though, apparently.

Hm... that's valid, but what if that's just how the power works? Rather than Brutaka choosing it to be that way?

 

BTW, another thing I was vaguely thinking of earlier but was too rushed to figure out what it was exactly, is there may be a lockout on things at the destination side coming through to the source side. I was thinking about those light beings... but then, I may be misremembering that scene. Lemme see what source it was in real quick... *tries BS01 Olmak page*

 

No... Brutaka page?

 

Hm... quick this is not proving. Something else related to this topic does come to mind, re-reading Brutaka's history -- it was stated that Brutaka's mask was damaged, and that's why it messed up for Takanuva, but at least once (apparently much later on) he does use the mask and that time it works right. So, that gets me wondering why it was still not apparently messed up and how that happened -- and whether by that time he even knew it had messed up. (Actually if you look at the source when Takanuva goes through, Helryx and company almost seem to imply they MIGHT know Takanuva was going somewhere else... it's intriguing.) I have some ideas... maybe the mask power self-corrects after just one wrong usage, or maybe protodermis automatically repairs over time from things like Pit mutagen damage and Takanuva just used it too soon...

 

Anywho... *reads on* Hrm... nothing... Dimensions page? That should do it... Rightly. Well, it doesn't say the source but it does correct a misunderstanding I had; I thought it was an alternate dimension, but it's a pocket dimension. Anyways, what I'm driving at is, if these solid light beings eat shadow and are always hungry, opening a two-way portal could be bad. Just one coming out to the MU could be dangerous. So, perhaps there could be a forcefield wall there that only allows things through one-way.

 

And that could open up other possibilities about such wall-fields; maybe it detects whether a "person" went through, maybe it holds back water, etc.

 

 

@bonesii: What is this retelling of your you've been mentioning and where can you read it?

It's better to stay on-topic here, hence my being slow to respond to this. But you can follow my profile update feed for news on it. I am going to try very hard to start posting the early chapters whether or not the final chapters get finished, before the end of Feb. (Images needed for early chapters is the main holdup now, which I'm working on, and some other artists may be.) When I start posting, link will be in sig, and on my blog.

 

I will say, bones, it's a biiit annoying when you say "I have the answer to your question but can't tell you because it's in my fanfic!" or something to that effect.

I assume you're just kidding, but just in case you're a biiiit not (), the alternative is to just be silent about it. I figure it's better to let people know I have an idea about it rather than acting like I don't. And I can tell you. Just not yet.

[fishers64]

 

It would seem that how the portal closes would be under the user's command when the portal is formed. So portals can be "programmed" by the user to advance toward someone and close when a person passes though, apparently.

Hm... that's valid, but what if that's just how the power works? Rather than Brutaka choosing it to be that way?

 

It's possible. BS01's wording leaves me on the fence though:

The Kanohi Olmak allowed its user to transport themselves and/or other targets to different dimensions or another location within their own via dimensional portals. A Kanohi Olmak user could also form gateways that stayed open without their concentration, if they so wished. While achieving time travel with an Olmak was impossible, one could use it to travel to dimensions where time flowed faster or slower than in the original dimension. One could also have used a Kanohi Olmak to travel beyond the Matoran Universe.

It says "transport", so that implies that it was an automatic function, but the line about the portals remaining open without the user's control implies that normally the user has control over the power. It could be that normally the Olmak user has complete control over their portals, but can "release" them so they stay open until someone passes through.

 

I think the Olmak user not being able to close their own portal without something passing through would be very dangerous, though. Also, having the portal "auto-close" every time someone goes through would be real annoying in some cases.

 

I need a Greg hunt to be sure...

 

Edit: There's an implied "portal" to Karda Nui. I thought this was a physical door, but I could be wrong on this number. KN is beneath the sea. It's clear to me that, if the was a dimensional portal, it didn't auto-close when somebody passed through, but remained open.

 

Edit: It's unlikely.

 

BTW, another thing I was vaguely thinking of earlier but was too rushed to figure out what it was exactly, is there may be a lockout on things at the destination side coming through to the source side. I was thinking about those light beings... but then, I may be misremembering that scene. Lemme see what source it was in real quick... *tries BS01 Olmak page*

 

No... Brutaka page?

 

Hm... quick this is not proving. Something else related to this topic does come to mind, re-reading Brutaka's history -- it was stated that Brutaka's mask was damaged, and that's why it messed up for Takanuva, but at least once (apparently much later on) he does use the mask and that time it works right. So, that gets me wondering why it was still not apparently messed up and how that happened -- and whether by that time he even knew it had messed up. (Actually if you look at the source when Takanuva goes through, Helryx and company almost seem to imply they MIGHT know Takanuva was going somewhere else... it's intriguing.) I have some ideas... maybe the mask power self-corrects after just one wrong usage, or maybe protodermis automatically repairs over time from things like Pit mutagen damage and Takanuva just used it too soon...

 

Anywho... *reads on* Hrm... nothing... Dimensions page? That should do it... Rightly. Well, it doesn't say the source but it does correct a misunderstanding I had; I thought it was an alternate dimension, but it's a pocket dimension. Anyways, what I'm driving at is, if these solid light beings eat shadow and are always hungry, opening a two-way portal could be bad. Just one coming out to the MU could be dangerous. So, perhaps there could be a forcefield wall there that only allows things through one-way.

 

And that could open up other possibilities about such wall-fields; maybe it detects whether a "person" went through, maybe it holds back water, etc.

Avohkah? Light beings? For some reason, the combination of "light beings" "dimensional portals" and "Bionicle" does not register on my memory at all. I didn't read all of the Taka dimensional stories, but you'd think I would have heard of it somewhere...

 

*tries to find Dimensions page* *fails* *goes back to parent pages* *finds Alternate locations page*

 

 

Dimension of Light

The Dimension of Light is a pocket dimension which is populated by beings of solid light. The occupants feed on Shadow and, according to Brutaka, are always hungry.

There's the reference. I do recall Brutaka talking about that. Hmm...The page itself might provide an answer, actually: it refers to "Light Barriers" which is the wrong thing (the Kingdom Version...) but what about the barrier Karzanhi used to keep Takanuva out of his realm?

What if there are barriers surrounding that dimension much like the barriers that Karzanhi had to keep light out? After all, the beings are made of soild light. (Further, it is implied that Brutaka came and went from this dimension, which wouldn't be easy with a standard forcefield.)

Edited February 5, 2014 by fishers64

[Katuko]

I distinctly remember reading somewhere that Brutaka's portal on Voya Nui (the one leading to the Field of Shadows) would stay open until something passed through. I thought it was in a comic, but it turns out it's BIONICLE Legends 5: Inferno.

 

Seeking victory, Brutaka uses his Kanohi Olmak to open a dimensional portal behind Axonn, which will not close until something passes through it, even if Brutaka is knocked unconscious.

I don't have the book myself, so I can't verify if the information is quoted correctly. Still, it appears the book made a point of this. Whether this was just a figure of speech and meant it had a very long time limit independent of Brutaka's will, it certainly stayed open even after his defeat. It also stayed open until Krahka passed through, at which point it closed. It seems to me that the power works by pumping energy into keeping the portal open - if the user concentrates it can be forced to stay open while people pass through, but if they stop concentrating it will either time out or start closing once a being or object destabilizes it by walking through. This seems consistent with other protrayals, where the portal generally closes shortly after someone (Takanuva) has gone through.

 

By this logic, trying to empty an ocean through a portal would only work for as long as you can concentrate on keeping it open. Otherwise you'll get maybe a swimming pool through before it starts closing on its own. Keeping rips in the fabric of spacetime open sounds like it requires more than just fire-n-forget.

 

Of note: Despite the "entrance" portal closing and slicing Tuyet in half, Takanuva could still exit dimensional space at his destination. In this portrayal the transdimensional space appears to be something you travel through, and a place where Tuyet's body can stay "forever". But if it was like that, what would have happened to Spiriah? Could he have entered the portal, then just floated/teleported back out of the entrance before it closed, or chosen to stay in dimensional space? It beats dying instantly to shadow-eating beings, at least. And if we assume everything travels through this interdimensional space, then something like water may just disperse everywhere and actually "miss" the exit, unless it's being supernaturally pulled there by the mask's energy. I realize that this space would likely be a "tunnel" of sorts which drags you towards the destination, but you never know.

 

The dimension of light beings was referred to in Federation of Fear, when Brutaka threatens Spiriah with it. Brutaka basically tells him to cooperate, or else he'll shunt Spiriah to a dimension where he'll instantly die. Since we never actually see what's on the other side of the portal, Brutaka might very well have been bluffing. With all the crazy stuff you can find in other dimensions, Spiriah would have been a fool to risk it.

 

Brutaka hit Spiriah a solid blow in the mask, knocking the Makuta over the side of the narrow bridge. Spiriah caught on to the span, just barely, and hung in space.

 

“I think this is what they call ‘in no position to deal,’” said Brutaka. He triggered his mask power, opening a dimensional portal in space just below Spiriah’s feet. “If I move that opening just a little bit further toward you, you’ll find yourself in a dimension full of beings made of solid light. Know what they eat there? Shadow. You’ll be a food bank for them, Spiriah, but I have to warn you – they’re always hungry. And they don’t close their mouths when they chew.”

 

Spiriah said nothing. Instead, he reduced his density and floated up and away from Brutaka’s portal. Then he drifted back down to the bridge and turned solid once more. “I’ll do it,” he said. “Then I leave. I advise you not to try and stop me.”

Worth mentioning: Brutaka also claims to be able to move the portal once it's been created.

 

 

Regarding your re-telling, bones: I too find it a tiny bit annoying that you keep mentioning it in such a way that it doesn't really add anything to the discussion. I mean, I've been seeing references to it for months, but if you truly have a good theory related to the topic at hand, then we are essentially wasting time by not hearing it. It's like discussing the solar system in the 1500s, and then you are kinda like Galileo with his heliocentric idea of space... but you don't tell anyone of the theory, you just sit there chuckling to yourself about the ignorant masses. Or something.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Katuko

[bonesiii]

Regarding your re-telling, bones: I too find it a tiny bit annoying that you keep mentioning it in such a way that it doesn't really add anything to the discussion. I mean, I've been seeing references to it for months, but if you truly have a good theory related to the topic at hand, then we are essentially wasting time by not hearing it.

You don't seriously think it's worth spoiling a story for the sake of a mere discussion topic that will be mostly forgotten a few months from now, do you? It may be a misjudgement of priorities on your part that is leading to the annoyance, rather than anything else. Would Greg tell you things you wanted to know, in the canon, prior to the right time story-wise to reveal it? I would hope we can all understand that the same principle applies to fan fiction too; in that a writer who comes up with a theory they feel would benefit the story to be revealed at that time should generally hold off on revealing it until that time.

 

It's like discussing the solar system in the 1500s, and then you are kinda like Galileo with his heliocentric idea of space... but you don't tell anyone of the theory, you just sit there chuckling to yourself about the ignorant masses. Or something.

That isn't an apt analogy as Galileo wasn't a fiction writer having to worry about avoiding spoilers. And this really is off-topic; please constrain future discussion to the actual subject at hand here, or take it to a PM. As I said, I mention that I have ideas about this so that I'm not giving the impression, falsely, that I don't, and tell you where to find them, when the time comes, so that if you're curious, you know where to look. Would you rather I wait until it's all posted and then go around trying to remember who asked related questions and PM them all about where to find the answer? (But what if others reading along wondered too, and wouldn't see that? Etc.) No, in the topic where they ask is the place to inform them where they will eventually find an idea of mine about it. Simple.

 

Patience, folks, patience. Giant robots aren't built in a day.

 

That said, the story can be improved if a theory turns out not to work and revealing it early lets people point out flaws; it would be unfortunate if one of them ends up that way, but that's why I haven't been holding back everything, just the ones that are plot spoilers or I think are cool enough that to tell them now would be robbing from the story. Believe me, it's something I've thought through.

 

[Edit: And just to be clear, members are always encouraged to allude to ideas in their fanfics, that are relevant to a topic, without actually spoiling it in that topic. By no means in S&T should fanfic writers feel pressured to choose between the false dichotomy of either leaving it entirely unsaid or stating it directly. S&T is first and foremost devoted to the integrity of story. ]

 

I distinctly remember reading somewhere that Brutaka's portal on Voya Nui (the one leading to the Field of Shadows) would stay open until something passed through. I thought it was in a comic, but it turns out it's BIONICLE Legends 5: Inferno.

 

BioSector01 said

Seeking victory, Brutaka uses his Kanohi Olmak to open a dimensional portal behind Axonn, which will not close until something passes through it, even if Brutaka is knocked unconscious.

I don't have the book myself, so I can't verify if the information is quoted correctly.

fishers actually posted the quote a few posts up.

 

But if it was like that, what would have happened to Spiriah? Could he have entered the portal, then just floated/teleported back out of the entrance before it closed, or chosen to stay in dimensional space? It beats dying instantly to shadow-eating beings, at least.

 

The dimension of light beings was referred to in Federation of Fear, when Brutaka threatens Spiriah with it.

Thought so... but thanks.

 

Yeah, being a Makuta, the issue of whether there's air there or not would seem irrelevant. It's possible he could do that. But my guess is it's a momentum thing, that Tuyet didn't go through fast enough, and Brutaka would ensure Spiriah's momentum would carry him through. Plus, he probably has no idea about that possibility anyways.

 

 

 

fishers, just to clear up something that might have been misunderstood from my previous post because I worded it poorly, just in case:

 

So, perhaps there could be a forcefield wall there that only allows things through one-way.

 

And that could open up other possibilities about such wall-fields; maybe it detects whether a "person" went through, maybe it holds back water, etc.

[...] What if there are barriers surrounding that dimension much like the barriers that Karzanhi had to keep light out?

The "there" was in reference to the idea that the Olmak's destination side might always have a one-way barrier. You probably got that and are just giving your own idea, which is very possible, but I realized my wording was clunky, so yeah.

Edited February 5, 2014 by bonesiii

[Toatapio Nuva]

Regarding the one-way theory of the portals, there was a scene in one 2007 serial (I think it was Into the Darkness), where Brutaka opens a portal underwater to transport an energy blast from Makuta into the Zone of Darkness. In that case the direction was away from the water and into the dark zone, so shouldn't the water have also passed through? I think there would have at least been a mention of water rushing through if that was the case.

[bonesiii]

To be clear, I was theorizing that there might be a one-way field, but also that if so, this adds evidence to the idea that fields might also protect against other things like water. If a field-wall can do one thing, maybe it can do others. But regardless, glad you bring that up. I wasn't consciously aware of that in my previous posts, and it's clearly relevant. (Sorry if it was already stated and I missed it.) Actually, that would work in the other way; if this is evidence for an anti-water field, it may be evidence for field-walls doing other things like a one-way limitation.

 

BTW, it seems implied that the Codrex's shield had a one-way thing, as it locked other Makuta out, but Antroz, having snuck in before it closed behind the Toa on their way in, was able to fly the Jetrax out just fine. Onua apparently leaves and then comes back in, which adds confusion, but maybe Tahu gave him the keystones, and their proximity makes the field go away. Point is, it's evidence for the existence of one-way shields, that I had never noticed before until reviewing last week. Hau also gives evidence of it. So, could be.

 

While I'm at it, I might as well dig up the quote you referenced... Yes, you had the right source. Here:

 

"You cost me the Nui Stone," growled Makuta, hurling a burst of shadow energy at Brutaka. "You have become... an annoyance."

 

But the shadow bolt never reached its target. Triggering the power of his Kanohi mask, Brutaka opened a dimensional portal and shunted the energy into the Zone of Darkness, where it could harm nothing.

Not really very clear. Zivon wouldn't mind a bit of water on the floor (spread out, would be very thin), and might even like it if a fish or two went through as well (unlikely though as sea creatures flee things like battles, at least ones not directed at the moment by Barraki to join them). And the point of sending the energy where it would harm nothing could also imply that the water couldn't harm anything there either so it didn't matter. It's the kind of thing I would usually try to mention to avoid confusion, but in Greg's serial style, he would generally not. (He's also got that thing about details not being important sometimes. )

 

BTW, if fishers' idea is right, then it's possible Brutaka can choose whether or not things like water would go through. That might be the direction Greg would prefer, as that way if he wanted to have Brutaka send water through he could, but if it would be inconvenient to plot, not.

 

Actually, that might solve the vacuum-effect problem I raised earlier as evidence against the idea of any selective walls. Maybe experienced users can make cylindrical walls in IDS between the source portal and destination portal, but let air through into it, by willing this to be so, and this also would have prevented Tuyet's Olmak from being lost out there, but because she was not an experienced user of the mask she didn't set that up right.

[Katuko]

You don't seriously think it's worth spoiling a story for the sake of a mere discussion topic that will be mostly forgotten a few months from now, do you?

Well, the thing is that I am far more engaged in this discussion topic right here and now, while your fanfic is something I would definitely read... but that has been unreachable for me for so long now that it's essentially the Half-Life 3 of fanfics. (Yes, I know that is a major overstatement; just a joke.)

 

It may be a misjudgement of priorities on your part that is leading to the annoyance, rather than anything else. Would Greg tell you things you wanted to know, in the canon, prior to the right time story-wise to reveal it?

The annoyance is so slight it's barely worth mentioning. I had hoped the smiley face would take the edge off the statement, but I guess I'll just have to blame it on text not conveying tone of voice properly. I also don't think the finer details of interdimensional travel is really a spoiler, considering that we will all be going into your fic with the knowledge that yes, the Olmak is a thing.

 

That said, the story can be improved if a theory turns out not to work and revealing it early lets people point out flaws; it would be unfortunate if one of them ends up that way, but that's why I haven't been holding back everything, just the ones that are plot spoilers or I think are cool enough that to tell them now would be robbing from the story. Believe me, it's something I've thought through.

I trust you on that point, no question. I'm just a lot more actively engaged in discussing a story in a S&T topic than I am getting told "you'll have to wait and see".

 

Yeah, being a Makuta, the issue of whether there's air there or not would seem irrelevant. It's possible he could do that. But my guess is it's a momentum thing, that Tuyet didn't go through fast enough, and Brutaka would ensure Spiriah's momentum would carry him through. Plus, he probably has no idea about that possibility anyways.

I'm just wondering how "long" the journey is. Takanuva seemed like he had to travel a medium-long distance between portals in inter-dimensional space. If the Olmak-user shuts off the portals while you are still traveling, what happens? Do you kinda reach warp-speed and just get pushed out at some destination immediately?

 

Regarding the one-way theory of the portals, there was a scene in one 2007 serial (I think it was Into the Darkness), where Brutaka opens a portal underwater to transport an energy blast from Makuta into the Zone of Darkness. In that case the direction was away from the water and into the dark zone, so shouldn't the water have also passed through? I think there would have at least been a mention of water rushing through if that was the case.

I don't think there would be anything stopping the water, if the energy bolt went through. The portal was opened and closed very quickly, so on the other end you'd see a black lightning bolt streak out, and a bucket or five of water splashing on the ground. It's not really important apart from the energy blast "missing". Now, if Brutaka had full control over his portals, I wonder if he could have made the blast vanish into the portal and then come out of one behind Makuta; or if he could just have tried the trick he threatened Spiriah with. Toss the Makuta into a pocket dimension and deal with him later. Makuta have no dimensional travel powers of their own, so Teridax would be as stuck as anyone.

 

Do we have any idea about the size of the Field of Shadows/Zone of Darkness pocket dimension, by the way? The Zivon can be somewhat reliably called forth from it, and Krahka managed to stumble across Brutaka's portal without prior knowledge of its location. The impression I've gotten of the portals is that you can't really see what's on the other side, due to the inter-dimensional space. The portal on Voya Nui was described as a "vortex", which implies a swirling energy cloud more than it does a "hole". If we could see, I'd expect Brutaka's portal to the "light dimension" to shine brightly in the cave darkness, or Krahka to be able to follow the light in an otherwise dark dimension.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Katuko

[bonesiii]

The annoyance is so slight it's barely worth mentioning. I had hoped the smiley face would take the edge off the statement, but I guess I'll just have to blame it on text not conveying tone of voice properly.

Good to hear. I came thiiiis close to prefacing my response with something like "I can't tell if you're joking, but since this seems to keep coming up, just to be clear" etc.

 

I also don't think the finer details of interdimensional travel is really a spoiler

It's definitely a spoiler in this case. I can't really even hint why yet, though it's a fairly obvious reason once you see it. It'll make sense when the chapter goes live. Anywho.

 

considering that we will all be going into your fic with the knowledge that yes, the Olmak is a thing.

Well that's guaranteed from the getgo, given that it's the central idea of the EM. The story doesn't directly involve the EM at all but it's inevitable that me doing a project like this would have to involve that since that's the other main project I'm involved with.

 

Anyways.

 

If the Olmak-user shuts off the portals while you are still traveling, what happens? Do you kinda reach warp-speed and just get pushed out at some destination immediately?

My guess is you would be stuck in a scene much like the opening of (I think it was) the Kingdom, where Takanuva didn't really have a clear destination portal, but saw tons of worlds seeming to zoom by, or blink in and out of visibility or something like that. I interpret that as the normal appearance of interdimensional space, without Olmak portals open, so under that view, you would see that if the portals closed before you were through (assuming you weren't partway through and suffered Empress Tuyet's fate).

 

I wonder if he could have made the blast vanish into the portal and then come out of one behind Makuta

Now you're thinking with portals!

 

*couldn't resist*

 

Do we have any idea about the size of the Field of Shadows/Zone of Darkness pocket dimension, by the way?

Depictions so far make it seem roughly comparable to Mata Nui (island), or maybe one of the continents... or maybe even as small as Metru Nui. I doubt there is a whole giant-robot-sized land in there so that one point in the MU corresponds exactly to one point there (my Paracosmos portrayal of multiple circles each going with a dome notwithstanding; that is an intentional change). I do think there has to be a correlation but "shrunken". (So, if you weren't afraid of the Zivon, and had no other power, it could act as a shortcut for walking. But foolish unless you're reeeeally sure you won't lose the power to go back out, heh.)

 

If we could see, I'd expect Brutaka's portal to the "light dimension" to shine brightly in the cave darkness, or Krahka to be able to follow the light in an otherwise dark dimension.

This is more about the Field of Shadow physics than Olmak, but didn't a Kahgarak's portal to it enable light to work for that time duration? Or am I getting confused by my own fanfics lol? I seem to remember Toa Metru briefly being able to see, when a portal was open. It could stand to reason that just the "energy swirl" of the Olmak itself, plus a physics connection, might make Krahka able to see. But this doesn't really affect the point you're making which seems right on.

 

 

BTW, back to this:

 

I don't think there would be anything stopping the water, if the energy bolt went through. The portal was opened and closed very quickly, so on the other end you'd see a black lightning bolt streak out, and a bucket or five of water splashing on the ground. It's not really important apart from the energy blast "missing".

Not even sure if it's worth pointing out, but if there is an anti-water barrier, I would fully expect energy to make it through. That's common in fiction. Stargate has for example had wormhole connections not send water through (I just googled it to make sure I was remembering right ) but energy weapons fire will. I wouldn't be surprised if the Olmak works similarly. (And to go back to the theory of the user deciding, since Brutaka wanted the energy to go through it would, but since he wasn't thinking about letting water through, under the theory, it might automatically not.)

[Katuko]

Now you're thinking with portals!

 

*couldn't resist*

I played Portal 2 co-op recently, so tactics like this is fresh in my mind. That is, if the Olmak can actually cause a portal to "loop back" to the same universe it started in. In my game I've made the Olmak use portals that simply warp you to different places in the playing area at your own leisure, but then again that is because my game naturally can't incorporate a ton of different dimensions. If it turned out to be canonically correct that would just be a bonus for me.

 

Also regarding Portal: In the game, portals can not be placed over one another, and they can not pass through each other. If the energy from a portal gun hits a surface where a portal is already in place, the first one is destabilized and removed. But Portal uses a flat field of energy which has to be placed on an applicable surface. The Olmak apparently creates more of a ball of energy, I gather? Because you can see it as a swirling vortex from all angles, unlike Portals, where the opening is like a door and becomes less and less visible as you step around it.

 

 

(So, if you weren't afraid of the Zivon, and had no other power, it could act as a shortcut for walking. But foolish unless you're reeeeally sure you won't lose the power to go back out, heh.)

Or if your Olmak is malfunctioning, hah. Takanuva was supposed to just take a shortcut, after all, and then he ended up in the wrong place. Another indicator that the mask may allow travel within the same dimension - but that it might be far less reliable than standard teleportation because you at least have to go through the somewhat turbulent inter-dimensional space.

 

 

This is more about the Field of Shadow physics than Olmak, but didn't a Kahgarak's portal to it enable light to work for that time duration?

I seem to remember something like this as well. Plus, Axonn looked into Brutaka's portal on Voya Nui, but saw only darkness. Whether this means that he actually saw the Zone of Darkness on the other side, or if every portal turns dark in the center, I dunno.

 

 

Not even sure if it's worth pointing out, but if there is an anti-water barrier, I would fully expect energy to make it through. That's common in fiction. Stargate has for example had wormhole connections not send water through (I just googled it to make sure I was remembering right ) but energy weapons fire will. I wouldn't be surprised if the Olmak works similarly. (And to go back to the theory of the user deciding, since Brutaka wanted the energy to go through it would, but since he wasn't thinking about letting water through, under the theory, it might automatically not.)

True, it might be somewhat selective. It would be bad if you actually needed to portal liquids (such as when attacked by a Toa of Water, or an acid-spitter, or similar) and then it hit the portal and splashed everywhere around you instead.

 

 

You know, if this mask is indeed quick enough to stop energy bolts, and it can move its portals into people to force them through, and it has "selective fire" then it could easily be hilariously overpowered. I fondly remember the Gate spell from D&D, which I have seen some players abuse. The spell creates a portal in mid-air, about the same size as the ones from Portal. It can be used for interplanar travel (like to the Astral Plane, a sorta ethereal space realm), or to warp within the same plane (like from an island to your hometown). The Gate would always be two-way, and since there was no rule that said you couldn't create a Gate to the Elemental Plane of Fire (which is actually a place in the more common D&D settings) right under the villain's feet, some quests would be very easily resolved once a wizard gained access to Gate.

 

Of course, that was high up in levels, it took some time to prepare, and you couldn't cast the spell all that often. Without such a limit, though, portal spam seems like a very efficient way to kill enemies. Portal Makuta to the dimension of light. Portal a Barraki onto dry land. Portal infiltrators onto Daxia. Portal Helryx into a volcano. Portal the ocean into The Shadowed One's throne room.

 

Come to think of it, most of Brutaka's battles have used precisely such a tactic. I guess he was using it as best he could.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Katuko

[fishers64]

I'm just wondering how "long" the journey is. Takanuva seemed like he had to travel a medium-long distance between portals in inter-dimensional space. If the Olmak-user shuts off the portals while you are still traveling, what happens? Do you kinda reach warp-speed and just get pushed out at some destination immediately?

This might help:

 

12. You said that due to Brutaka’s mask being damaged, Takanuva was dumped in the Tuyetverse; but there are portals somewhere in the universe that lead to Karda Nui (eventually) created by the Olmak (at least, that’s what I remember hearing). My question is, is the original portal that Takanuva came through still open? So that, say, Dweller (who I’m assuming is still following his orders to kill our beloved ToL) could follow him through?

 

12) First off, Dweller is not an issue at this point, he gets dealt with in Bionicle Legends #10. Second, the portal back into the inter-dimensional universe does not still exist in the Tuyetverse -- the one T came through is closed, and he doesn’t have the power to make one for himself. Also, this is sort of how it worked -- Brutaka put Takanuva on a highway, with the intent he got off on the exit for Karda Nui ... but the highway was in bad shape and Takanuva got bounced off the wrong exit. There is no way for anyone else to know where he wound up and thus follow him. If someone else was in there, they would probably be bounced to somewhere else entirely.

 

 

It's like a highway, apparently, with exits. (This reminds me of this other book called the Looking Glass Wars and the Crystal Continuum in there that required focus to travel though and not just get kicked out of it at a random point...)

Do we have any idea about the size of the Field of Shadows/Zone of Darkness pocket dimension, by the way? The Zivon can be somewhat reliably called forth from it, and Krahka managed to stumble across Brutaka's portal without prior knowledge of its location. The impression I've gotten of the portals is that you can't really see what's on the other side, due to the inter-dimensional space. The portal on Voya Nui was described as a "vortex", which implies a swirling energy cloud more than it does a "hole". If we could see, I'd expect Brutaka's portal to the "light dimension" to shine brightly in the cave darkness, or Krahka to be able to follow the light in an otherwise dark dimension.

Yes, light can come through portals.

A pinprick of light have appeared up ahead in a world where all was dark. The Kahgarak was moving right toward it. Whenua felt certain it had to be an exit.

[...](Page 101)

The creature reached the light and passed through. Bomonga and Whenua dove, barely making it though before the gateway disappeared.

I would say more, but I got to run!

[bonesiii]

That is, if the Olmak can actually cause a portal to "loop back" to the same universe it started in.

Just to be clear, we know Brutaka can teleport to other areas in the same universe. What I wouldn't be so sure about is if he can go to a place right next to the source side, or if it works better over long distances. Stargate had a thing where you couldn't use two gates too close to each other, I think. Could be like that. But who knows.

 

The Olmak apparently creates more of a ball of energy, I gather? Because you can see it as a swirling vortex from all angles

I've always assumed it's more like a circle. Certainly you have to leap in at the right direction, or else you would not be aimed at the destination portal and would be very likely to just fly off in a random direction in IDS. A sphere would make that unnecessarily confusing.

 

Maybe I've misunderstood you though.

 

Takanuva was supposed to just take a shortcut, after all, and then he ended up in the wrong place. Another indicator that the mask may allow travel within the same dimension - but that it might be far less reliable than standard teleportation because you at least have to go through the somewhat turbulent inter-dimensional space.

Again, correct me if I'm misreading this, but you seem to operating under a misconception that there's any doubt that it can go to a place in the same dimension. There are many examples where it did, such as teleporting that Tahtorak to Metru Nui. There's no question as to that.

 

To the part after the dash, it's debatable. Standard teleportation personaly would terrify me, because you're actually being destroyed, and the energy beamed like a laser to the destination, and you have to hope you get magically put back together again right. Of course, flying off into the wrong dimension could be nearly as terrifying, considering all the possible destinations, but normally the mask is reliable. A mask of teleportation messed up by Pit mutagen seems likely to be just plain fatal. At least going to the wrong dimension gives you a chance to survive, and find your way home as Takanuva did.

 

It would be bad if you actually needed to portal liquids (such as when attacked by a Toa of Water, or an acid-spitter, or similar) and then it hit the portal and splashed everywhere around you instead.

Well, when I googled the Stargate thing to check, it said something like the gate can tell when something is "trying" to go through, versus mere pressure. Opening a Stargate even under deep water pressure apparently doesn't send the water through (normally), but if you stood in front of an open gate with a bucket of water, and catapulted the water into the gate, it should go through.

 

Olmak might do that, or it might work based on momentum alone. So water actually already moving with respect to the portal might go through, but water just sitting there might not, even if there's a natural current. The protodermis molecules probably have sufficient processing power to be able to calculate the difference.

 

You know, if this mask is indeed quick enough to stop energy bolts, and it can move its portals into people to force them through, and it has "selective fire" then it could easily be hilariously overpowered.

And that doesn't even touch on how Brutaka could have, if he wanted to, made an army for himself from other dimensions (of course, the Makuta actually did, with the Shadow Takanuva). Still more reason why I sometimes wish it had been treated as a Legendary Mask, so there would be more obvious downsides and could only be one. As it is, it appears to have the sheer power of a Legendary Mask, but without the risk of destroying anything if it's destroyed (so the user doesn't have to be nearly as careful even when not using it to protect it), ease of losing focus (so Takanuva-esque problems could happen just by failing to concentrate, not only things like Pit mutagen), and without both Brutaka and the Makuta having one.

 

Though that would have greatly changed Brutaka's standing in Bionicle society -- but it could have prevented the troubling question of why the Makuta only bothered to make one little army of all the same dude; we could have had zero Shadow Takanuva at all, which I think I'd prefer, and just say that whatever teleports Destral is a sub-power.

 

Thankfully it does appear that nobody figured out how to actually mix the power. I get the impression the GBs made the two Olmak originally, and didn't tell anybody else how to. If the Brotherhood had ever found out how to mix the power, watch out.

[Katuko]

 

The Olmak apparently creates more of a ball of energy, I gather? Because you can see it as a swirling vortex from all angles

I've always assumed it's more like a circle. Certainly you have to leap in at the right direction, or else you would not be aimed at the destination portal and would be very likely to just fly off in a random direction in IDS. A sphere would make that unnecessarily confusing.

 

I just mean that when you circle around this hypothetical "sphere hole", you'd be able to see whatever's directly opposite of the sphere at the destination. For example, if you made a rift in space between somewhere and to the peak of Mt. Ihu, then entering from the north side would make you look towards the forested southern end of the island when you exit, and towards the volcanic beach in the east if you entered from the west. A flat portal, though, would not allow you to see anything if you looked at it from the side.

 

Portals tend to be flat "doorways" in fiction, but I have seen the "dimensional rift" version now and then. I believe at least one videogame I've played had a very interesting effect achieved by just mapping a camera onto an object, so that wherever you looked you'd see what was on the other side of it... in a different room. It was a 3D rift in space, compared to Portal's 2D ones.

 

 

Again, correct me if I'm misreading this, but you seem to operating under a misconception that there's any doubt that it can go to a place in the same dimension. There are many examples where it did, such as teleporting that Tahtorak to Metru Nui. There's no question as to that.

I must imagine I forgot about some of those events. The Olmak-uses I remember most were all jumps between dimensions.

 

I'm mostly just wondering if you can pin-point the destination, or if it's like the D&D spells I am more familiar with ( ). Namely, Plane Shift: You can travel anywhere, but your destination on the target plane/dimension will be off by several miles. Gate is an upgraded version, which opens a dimensional window at exactly the place you imagine.

 

 

To the part after the dash, it's debatable. Standard teleportation personaly would terrify me, because you're actually being destroyed, and the energy beamed like a laser to the destination, and you have to hope you get magically put back together again right.

Personally, I would never step into such a teleporter, simply because I don't believe you'd actually survive the trip. Your brain and entire consciousness gets dismantled down to the (sub-)atomic level, which effectively kills you. When the pieces are put back together again, it might be a perfect clone of me that is none the wiser, but I think from my point of view I'd actually die at the moment the switch is flicked.

 

"Wormholes", on the other hand, are a way to bend time and space so that you never actually break apart.

 

 

Of course, flying off into the wrong dimension could be nearly as terrifying, considering all the possible destinations, but normally the mask is reliable. A mask of teleportation messed up by Pit mutagen seems likely to be just plain fatal. At least going to the wrong dimension gives you a chance to survive, and find your way home as Takanuva did.

Speaking of: Is there any way to be 100% certain that you have returned to your own universe, when you do not create the portal yourself? The Toa Empire seemed deceptively similar at first glance, after all, and many crazy events happen in every universe. Can Takanuva be certain that the timeline in which Makuta hijacks the Great Spirit robot and they all end up on Spherus Magna is his own Core Universe? These were details that were entirely unknown to him until he arrived in Karda Nui (another place he had never been before), so the events of The Kingdom and such are technically just as believable to be the "Core" universe... were it not for the time disparity.

 

If I were him, I'd be paranoid for the rest of my life that I had returned to the wrong version of reality... and that somewhere out there, one dimensional jump away, my home universe was severely lacking in a Toa of Light to tip the scales against darkness.

 

 

 

Well, when I googled the Stargate thing to check, it said something like the gate can tell when something is "trying" to go through, versus mere pressure. Opening a Stargate even under deep water pressure apparently doesn't send the water through (normally), but if you stood in front of an open gate with a bucket of water, and catapulted the water into the gate, it should go through.

And if your intention is to open a Stargate underwater and have it rush through, would you be able to calibrate it to allow that?

 

 

 

 

You know, if this mask is indeed quick enough to stop energy bolts, and it can move its portals into people to force them through, and it has "selective fire" then it could easily be hilariously overpowered.

And that doesn't even touch on how Brutaka could have, if he wanted to, made an army for himself from other dimensions (of course, the Makuta actually did, with the Shadow Takanuva). Still more reason why I sometimes wish it had been treated as a Legendary Mask, so there would be more obvious downsides and could only be one. As it is, it appears to have the sheer power of a Legendary Mask, but without the risk of destroying anything if it's destroyed (so the user doesn't have to be nearly as careful even when not using it to protect it), ease of losing focus (so Takanuva-esque problems could happen just by failing to concentrate, not only things like Pit mutagen), and without both Brutaka and the Makuta having one.

 

It's so close to being legendary as it can be without actually controlling dimensional space itself. Artakha is the only being who can make one as far as we know, so that puts some limit on its usage. Tridax used the Olmak to great ends, dooming who knows how many alternate realities in the process. The lack of a legendary Toa of Light would likely be important to those realities that had one in the first place.

 

Bitil's mask is another that should probably have been of semi-legendary status. I mean, its after-effects can potentially cause splits in the timeline. I still wish they'd have explained its power as just spawning clones of Bitil that were "synced" with his body Neon Genesis Evangelion style, rather than actually pulling them in through time and space.

 

 

Though that would have greatly changed Brutaka's standing in Bionicle society -- but it could have prevented the troubling question of why the Makuta only bothered to make one little army of all the same dude; we could have had zero Shadow Takanuva at all, which I think I'd prefer, and just say that whatever teleports Destral is a sub-power.

Every person they take will change the other reality, though. Core!Tridax may have considered grabbing an army of himself - but that would essentially lessen "his" influence in other dimensions. So instead, he grabbed an bunch of dudes he hated to enslave and use to ironic effect - Toa of Light being made to serve the masters of Shadow. They tried the Shadow Leech ambush tactic in the main universe too, but it didn't work completely.

 

Plus, I gathered that Tridax wasn't done fetching all the Alt!Takanuva he wanted yet. He was grabbing them one at a time, each one likely requiring some planning to avoid being counter-attacked with Elemental Light or other beings while he leeched and kidnapped the target. From my gaming experience, I've learned that even "scry-and-die" tactics can fail horrendously if you don't take all factors into account. Unless you make several trips beforehand to stake out the area, you run the risk of dimension-jumping into a situation you're not equipped to handle. (Imagine Tridax teleporting right up besides Alt!Takanuva, only to find out he was speaking with a Toa of Iron right then, for example).

 

Given enough time, Tridax could easily have started porting in other armies, possibly by making an agreement with his alternate self that they'd conquer dimensions one at a time with joined might. If a hundred Rahkshi sounds good, then a thousand sounds even better.

 

 

Thankfully it does appear that nobody figured out how to actually mix the power. I get the impression the GBs made the two Olmak originally, and didn't tell anybody else how to. If the Brotherhood had ever found out how to mix the power, watch out.

The Olmak page on BS01 says both were made by Artakha. Then again he wears the Mask of Creation, so he essentially has a near-GB level of ability already.

 

And yeah, being able to teleport anywhere at any time, beyond even normal teleportation limits, is an incredibly useful power to have. Teleportation alone is on my Top 3 list of "superpowers I'd want".

Edited February 7, 2014 by Katuko

[bonesiii]

Sorry for slowness..

 

I just mean that when you circle around this hypothetical "sphere hole", you'd be able to see whatever's directly opposite of the sphere at the destination.

Eh, I doubt that. No disproof of it though.

 

Speaking of: Is there any way to be 100% certain that you have returned to your own universe, when you do not create the portal yourself?

Prepare for annoyance so slight as to be barely worth mentioning.

 

Theory in retelling. Actually, two theories (the main one in my story cannot be canon, but there's also a clue to a canon answer in the Kingdom that I mention). I don't think Takanuva could be 100% sure, but then you can't ever be truly 100% sure somebody didn't throw you into an alternate dimension while you were asleep that is similar to your own via Olmak. But somebody who knows how it works, IMO, could be sure they're properly home. No, I can't reveal how so. Spoilers.

 

And if your intention is to open a Stargate underwater and have it rush through, would you be able to calibrate it to allow that?

Well, memory's bad, but I think there was some form of life that actually made such a thing happen, in the key episode that source referenced. And probably you could reprogram it but you'd need to put up with Rodney McCay.

 

Or the like, lol.

 

Yeah, that was a long wait for a post that said almost nothing. My bad.

Edited February 12, 2014 by bonesiii

[Katuko]

You can just say the air "tastes right" so that the being instinctively know they're home, bones.

[SarracenianKaijin]

Olmak never created gates to material realities, because there was never any. It was a key to something much higher.

 

Not a bearded Spock, but a Gandalf's Garden.

 

EDIT:

 

Edited by bonesiii, Apr 15 2014 - 03:21 PM.
You are free to express your opinion in regards to the question(s) being asked, but do not insult others. -bones

??????? ???? ?????? ???? ???

 

???? ? ???? ????? ????? ????

 

Okay, now your edits are just getting bizarre and frivolous. Insults, seriously now?

Edited April 15, 2014 by SarracenianKaijin
You are free to express your opinion in regards to the question(s) being asked, but do not insult others. -bones