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The quest to find BIONICLE: Legends of Mata Nui

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#41 Offline JrMasterModelBuilder

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Posted Feb 13 2014 - 10:15 PM

Looking at the relevant images, they do look quite similar to the visual style of the game, and I'm slightly open to the possibility of them being from there. However, the dramatic angles and muted colours of the Nui-Rama and Makuta battle look far more like cutscenes than actual gameplay. And the three cutscenes in the game that we know of don't feature any (non-Manas) Rahi or Makuta.

If from the game, I think they would probably be concept art. I'm not sure if there is a complete digital copy of all the 2001 trading cards to check against, but perhaps this is where they are from? Most if not all of the other images appear on the trading cards. It kind-of looks like the simplistic CG images on some of the trading cards.

Edited by JrMasterModelBuilder, Feb 13 2014 - 10:16 PM.

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#42 Online Pereki

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Posted Feb 14 2014 - 06:55 AM



If from the game, I think they would probably be concept art. I'm not sure if there is a complete digital copy of all the 2001 trading cards to check against, but perhaps this is where they are from? Most if not all of the other images appear on the trading cards. It kind-of looks like the simplistic CG images on some of the trading cards.

Screenguy scanned all of the QFTM cards and uploaded them here. Like you said, most of the images are from Advance, like the ones in the clip animations. There are a few that are exclusive to the cards, and if I'm not mistaken the majority of them are visible on the first page of that gallery (the Bonus and Penalty ones, minus the first Lewa one).

 

Comparing this Tahu to this Tahu, they definitely seem pretty different to me. The most notable difference is the fireswords.


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#43 Offline PrismWind

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Posted Mar 08 2014 - 10:22 PM

I might get in trouble for this seeing as this is my fourth topic about the game "Legends of Mata Nui" but I just had to discuss this. I was looking at some old posts on the WayBack and I started thinking. What if RedQuark invented DeepBrick as a cover incase he ever got in trouble? It can also be to avoid getting spammed by requests. But if I were him, and I wanted to leak a game, I might just do this.
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#44 Offline Ghabulous Ghoti

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Posted Mar 08 2014 - 10:31 PM

Is this just speculation, or did you find specific posts that support this?


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#45 Offline JrMasterModelBuilder

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Posted Mar 08 2014 - 11:18 PM

Possible? Yes. Likely? No. I actually ask him this at one point and he said he was not Deep Brick, not that that would mean much, but it's pretty unlikely Mark Durham would have had a copy. He also isn't listed in the credits anywhere.


Edited by JrMasterModelBuilder, Mar 08 2014 - 11:18 PM.

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#46 Offline PrismWind

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Posted Mar 08 2014 - 11:24 PM

Possible? Yes. Likely? No. I actually ask him this at one point and he said he was not Deep Brick, not that that would mean much, but it's pretty unlikely Mark Durham would have had a copy. He also isn't listed in the credits anywhere.

Who is Mark Durham? And who exactly is DeepBrick? Was he on BZPower? Did he ever actually post anything?


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#47 Online Pereki

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Posted Mar 09 2014 - 08:58 AM

 

Who is Mark Durham? And who exactly is DeepBrick? Was he on BZPower? Did he ever actually post anything?

 

Mark is RedQuark. As for DeepBrick, he remains completely anonymous. He appeared in 2004 when he shared a text-based walkthrough of Onua's level of The Legend of Mata Nui on the other BIONICLE fan site. After that, he didn't appear again until he began communicating through RedQuark on BZPower back when he first shared the game's cutscenes (I guess that was 2009 or 2010). As far as I know, he has only ever communicated through RedQuark and never posted something directly.

 

It's too bad the topic on the old BZP forums isn't around anymore, it would no doubt fill you in on most of everything that has gone on concerning the game in the past few years. It sounds like you've already looked up what you can find on the WayBack machine. That's about the best reference there is. :(


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#48 Online Sir Kohran

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Posted Mar 09 2014 - 08:53 PM

Well, all we know about Deep Brick is that he came to possess a CD containing at least a portion of the lost game at some point between 2001 and 2004, and he is male and probably American. Obviously that lack of specific information leaves no way to prove he's a separate person to Mark, but that's how he's always been referred to and I think the 'innocent until proven guilty' rule should be applied. So however sensational this Fight Club-esque twist might seem, I think we should definitely consider them separate people until/unless something directly suggests otherwise.


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#49 Offline Hahli Husky

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Posted Mar 10 2014 - 12:43 AM

PrismWind, since you've made several other topics about subjects related to, if not exactly the same as, this one, I'm going to be merging those topics into this one. If you wish to continuing talking about Legends of Mata Nui, RedQuark, and Deep Brick, please do so here. Do not make another topic on this subject, unless this topic's last reply is at least 60 days old and cannot be revived.


Edited by Hahli Husky, Mar 10 2014 - 12:50 AM.

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#50 Offline universaldirect333

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Posted Mar 11 2014 - 03:25 PM

Who is Mark Durham? And who exactly is DeepBrick?


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#51 Offline PrismWind

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Posted Mar 11 2014 - 06:07 PM

Who is Mark Durham? And who exactly is DeepBrick?

Here's what I know. In 2004 somebody (DeepBrick) shared some info about the canceled game The Legend Of Mata Nui. Later, in 2010, RedQuark (Mark Durham) somehow got in contact with DeepBrick. DeepBrick is conpleatly anonymous. There are no accounts under that name anywhere. So, throughRedquark, DeepBrick released two never before cutscenes, then gameplay, then some files. RedQuark tried to buy the rights for the game from the company who developed it, Saffire, but to no avail. DeepBrick put his computer into storage and has remained silent. Now, 4 years later, there has been no progress mAde to find the game. That's why I posted this topic but it turned into a guessing game of what picture could be from the game😔

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#52 Offline Dorkpool

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Posted Mar 16 2014 - 04:31 PM

This is a tad off topic, but still somewhat on topic. I was reading more about the game, and heard something about a WTC thing. This is the quote:

"The rumors that were reported to me included large numbers of programming bugs, inability to meet LEGO® quality standards, and, rather disgustingly, possible similarities to the WTC disaster. The WTC link is completely untrue, and whatever sick individuals thought it would be amusing to start spreading that sort of rumor really need to stop"

 

Doing a tad bit more research, I think it has to do with the Word Trade Centers.

But what were they talking about involving the WTC? Anyone know?


Edited by Dorkpool, Mar 16 2014 - 05:42 PM.

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#53 Online Sir Kohran

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Posted Mar 16 2014 - 05:23 PM

This is a tad off topic, but still somewhat on topic. I was reading more about the game, and heard something about a WTC thing. This is the quote:

"The rumors that were reported to me included large numbers of programming bugs, inability to meet LEGO® quality standards, and, rather disgustingly, possible similarities to the WTC disaster. The WTC link is completely untrue, and whatever sick individuals thought it would be amusing to start spreading that sort of rumor really need to stop"

Doing a tad bit more research, I think it has to do with the Word Trade Centers.

But what were they talking about involving the WTC? Anyone know?

 

I don't think you're allowed to link to that site.

 

I've heard the 9/11 connection before, but it doesn't make any sense to me. What does a destructive terrorist attack on a city's buildings have to do with biomechanical warriors walking round an island fighting infected animals to reach magic masks?

 

There wasn't an official statement/report on the cancellation at the time, nor did anyone actually involved in the game ever discuss it publically, so exactly why it was cancelled has always been a bit of a mystery.


Edited by Sir Kohran, Mar 16 2014 - 05:38 PM.

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#54 Offline Dorkpool

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Posted Mar 16 2014 - 05:25 PM

 

This is a tad off topic, but still somewhat on topic. I was reading more about the game, and heard something about a WTC thing. This is the quote:

"The rumors that were reported to me included large numbers of programming bugs, inability to meet LEGO® quality standards, and, rather disgustingly, possible similarities to the WTC disaster. The WTC link is completely untrue, and whatever sick individuals thought it would be amusing to start spreading that sort of rumor really need to stop"

 

Doing a tad bit more research, I think it has to do with the Word Trade Centers.

But what were they talking about involving the WTC? Anyone know?

 

I don't think you're allowed to link to that site.

 

I've heard the 9/11 connection before, but it doesn't make any sense to me. What does a destructive terrorist attack on a city's buildings have to do with biomechanical warriors walking round an island fighting infected animals to reach magic masks?

 

There wasn't an official statement/report on the cancellation at the time, nor did anyone actually involved in the game ever discuss it publically, so exactly why it was cancelled has always been a bit of a mystery.

 

I'm not allowed?

Oops.


Edited by -Windrider-, Mar 16 2014 - 05:49 PM.

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#55 Offline PrismWind

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Posted Mar 16 2014 - 05:37 PM

 

This is a tad off topic, but still somewhat on topic. I was reading more about the game, and heard something about a WTC thing. This is the quote:
"The rumors that were reported to me included large numbers of programming bugs, inability to meet LEGO® quality standards, and, rather disgustingly, possible similarities to the WTC disaster. The WTC link is completely untrue, and whatever sick individuals thought it would be amusing to start spreading that sort of rumor really need to stop"

Doing a tad bit more research, I think it has to do with the Word Trade Centers.
But what were they talking about involving the WTC? Anyone know?

 
I don't think you're allowed to link to that site.
 
I've heard the 9/11 connection before, but it doesn't make any sense to me. What does a destructive terrorist attack on a city's buildings have to do with biomechanical warriors walking round an island fighting infected animals to reach magic masks?
 
There wasn't an official statement/report on the cancellation at the time, nor did anyone actually involved in the game ever discuss it publically, so exactly why it was cancelled has always been a bit of a mystery.

maybe you have to topple a bunch of trees or things. Maybe Rahi fly over head and bomb you with like rocks


Edited by -Windrider-, Mar 16 2014 - 05:49 PM.

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#56 Online Sir Kohran

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Posted Mar 16 2014 - 05:39 PM

I'd edit out the link from your posts just to be safe.


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#57 Offline Dorkpool

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Posted Mar 16 2014 - 05:45 PM

I edited it out from the original post.


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#58 Online Sir Kohran

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Posted Mar 16 2014 - 05:50 PM

But it's still in your next post following that one.


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#59 Offline Dorkpool

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Posted Mar 16 2014 - 05:51 PM

Not anymore...


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#60 Offline -Windrider-

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Posted Mar 16 2014 - 05:56 PM

All right, it's getting a bit off-topic in here. : P

 

Sir Kohran, please just use the report link next time.


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#61 Offline JrMasterModelBuilder

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Posted Mar 16 2014 - 10:17 PM

This is a tad off topic, but still somewhat on topic. I was reading more about the game, and heard something about a WTC thing. This is the quote:
"The rumors that were reported to me included large numbers of programming bugs, inability to meet LEGO® quality standards, and, rather disgustingly, possible similarities to the WTC disaster. The WTC link is completely untrue, and whatever sick individuals thought it would be amusing to start spreading that sort of rumor really need to stop"
Doing a tad bit more research, I think it has to do with the Word Trade Centers.
But what were they talking about involving the WTC? Anyone know?


I don't think you're allowed to link to that site.

I've heard the 9/11 connection before, but it doesn't make any sense to me. What does a destructive terrorist attack on a city's buildings have to do with biomechanical warriors walking round an island fighting infected animals to reach magic masks?

There wasn't an official statement/report on the cancellation at the time, nor did anyone actually involved in the game ever discuss it publically, so exactly why it was cancelled has always been a bit of a mystery.

A higher-up from Saffire said that the WTC attacks played a big role in why it was cancelled. Different people have claimed different things, with questionable reliability due to differing perspectives. If it was a reason, it would doubtlessly be denied publicly. I agree that it wouldn't make much sense to cancel a childrens game becuase of it, but LEGO was very, border-line absurdly, anti-violence at the time.

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#62 Offline PrismWind

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Posted Mar 17 2014 - 06:47 AM

I WISH THIS GAME CAME OUT :(


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#63 Online Sir Kohran

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Posted Mar 17 2014 - 09:51 AM

 

 

This is a tad off topic, but still somewhat on topic. I was reading more about the game, and heard something about a WTC thing. This is the quote:
"The rumors that were reported to me included large numbers of programming bugs, inability to meet LEGO® quality standards, and, rather disgustingly, possible similarities to the WTC disaster. The WTC link is completely untrue, and whatever sick individuals thought it would be amusing to start spreading that sort of rumor really need to stop"
Doing a tad bit more research, I think it has to do with the Word Trade Centers.
But what were they talking about involving the WTC? Anyone know?


I don't think you're allowed to link to that site.

I've heard the 9/11 connection before, but it doesn't make any sense to me. What does a destructive terrorist attack on a city's buildings have to do with biomechanical warriors walking round an island fighting infected animals to reach magic masks?

There wasn't an official statement/report on the cancellation at the time, nor did anyone actually involved in the game ever discuss it publically, so exactly why it was cancelled has always been a bit of a mystery.

 

A higher-up from Saffire said that the WTC attacks played a big role in why it was cancelled. Different people have claimed different things, with questionable reliability due to differing perspectives. If it was a reason, it would doubtlessly be denied publicly. I agree that it wouldn't make much sense to cancel a childrens game becuase of it, but LEGO was very, border-line absurdly, anti-violence at the time.

 

 

This makes no sense to me whatsoever. What effect does cancelling a PC game have on a terrorist attack? Is it going to undo what happened? No. The only effect it has is to give the actions of terrorists an even greater impact, and obviously deprive fans of something they were looking forward to.

 

I also add that from what we've seen, the game contained no depictions of bloodshed or suffering. The Manas battle is the closest thing to a violent sequence, yet the MNOLG contains an almost identical version of it that was released and didn't provoke any complaints.


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#64 Offline Baltarc

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Posted Mar 17 2014 - 10:21 AM

I believe the idea is that LEGO did not desire in any way to promote anything remotely resembling violence following the attacks. Whether this idea has any merit is up for debate, but it is a well-known fact that, at the time of Bionicle's release, LEGO was strongly against incorporating weapons into their products, hence why the Toa's "tools" are referred to as such.


Edited by Baltarc, Mar 17 2014 - 10:21 AM.

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#65 Offline -Windrider-

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Posted Mar 17 2014 - 04:53 PM

Okay, I have no idea what's going on with the recent LoMN craze, but the discussion needs to be kept to this topic only.

Hahli Husky's warning above applies to everyone:

 

 

Do not make another topic on this subject, unless this topic's last reply is at least 60 days old and cannot be revived.


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#66 Offline Dorkpool

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Posted Mar 17 2014 - 04:59 PM

Ok


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#67 Offline Tattorack

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Posted Mar 17 2014 - 06:17 PM

I'm not sure why yet another topic like this is needed (if you don't mind me saying).

Nobody has actually any new information to contribute, and the thread will just end up running around in circles... again.

I've read this thread fully and I'm reading the exact same things that were said in any of the previous topics (yes, even the WTC theory).


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#68 Offline PrismWind

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Posted Mar 18 2014 - 06:55 PM

Who exactly is mark ken dell? I know he has the rights but how did RedQuark know? He's not in lomn's credits. I think the most logical explanation is that DeepBrick is an anonymous former employee of saffire. How else would RedQuark know?
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#69 Offline JrMasterModelBuilder

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Posted Mar 18 2014 - 07:42 PM

Who exactly is mark ken dell? I know he has the rights but how did RedQuark know? He's not in lomn's credits. I think the most logical explanation is that DeepBrick is an anonymous former employee of saffire. How else would RedQuark know?

He was an investor in Saffire Inc. We don't know how RedQuark knew this.


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#70 Offline Gatanui

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Posted Mar 19 2014 - 10:00 AM

I'm wondering, since Templar got to modify the MNOG to finish telling the story when the video game was cancelled, shouldn't they have got a copy of the game? It's pretty obvious the Manas and Makuta fights took a lot of inspiration from the cinematic sequences of the game.

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Edited by Gatanui, Mar 19 2014 - 10:01 AM.

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#71 Online Sir Kohran

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Posted Mar 19 2014 - 10:23 AM

I'm wondering, since Templar got to modify the MNOG to finish telling the story when the video game was cancelled, shouldn't they have got a copy of the game? It's pretty obvious the Manas and Makuta fights took a lot of inspiration from the cinematic sequences of the game.

-Gata signoff.png

 

On the Manas scene, there's actually a significant difference. In the MNOLG, the Kaita are on the verge of being overwhelmed by the monsters, until they destroy the control towers which automatically disables them. In the PC game cinematic, by contrast, the Kaita don't seem to have any trouble beating them through sheer brute force; no towers appear either (but a Manas-Ko does, which doesn't in the MNOLG).

 

No PC game cinematic of the Makuta confrontation is known to exist, so no comparison with the MNOLG is possible.

 

I must also point out that the PC game has the Toa setting off some kind of victory beacon whilst still underground, whereas in the MNOLG they're simply teleported away (presumably straight to the surface) as soon as the fight ends.


Edited by Sir Kohran, Mar 19 2014 - 10:28 AM.

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#72 Offline Gatanui

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Posted Mar 19 2014 - 11:02 AM

I'm wondering, since Templar got to modify the MNOG to finish telling the story when the video game was cancelled, shouldn't they have got a copy of the game? It's pretty obvious the Manas and Makuta fights took a lot of inspiration from the cinematic sequences of the game.

-Gata signoff.png

 
On the Manas scene, there's actually a significant difference. In the MNOLG, the Kaita are on the verge of being overwhelmed by the monsters, until they destroy the control towers which automatically disables them. In the PC game cinematic, by contrast, the Kaita don't seem to have any trouble beating them through sheer brute force; no towers appear either (but a Manas-Ko does, which doesn't in the MNOLG).
 
No PC game cinematic of the Makuta confrontation is known to exist, so no comparison with the MNOLG is possible.
 
I must also point out that the PC game has the Toa setting off some kind of victory beacon whilst still underground, whereas in the MNOLG they're simply teleported away (presumably straight to the surface) as soon as the fight ends.

There may be no cinematic of the Makuta confrontation as far as we know, but there is this. Also, keep in mind that if the 9/11 theory about the cancellation of the game is indeed true, it's no wonder Templar would picture the Manas fight in a less brutal way.

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#73 Online Pereki

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Posted Mar 19 2014 - 11:20 AM

Templar may not have had access to a fully playable copy of the game, but they certainly would have had plenty of reference information from its production. Look at Onua's dialogue with Kapura in DeepBrick's walkthrough - it very clearly served as the basis for Kapura's first dialogue in MNOLG.


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#74 Offline Overscore

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Posted Mar 19 2014 - 11:26 AM

On the Manas scene, there's actually a significant difference. In the MNOLG, the Kaita are on the verge of being overwhelmed by the monsters, until they destroy the control towers which automatically disables them. In the PC game cinematic, by contrast, the Kaita don't seem to have any trouble beating them through sheer brute force; no towers appear either (but a Manas-Ko does, which doesn't in the MNOLG).

Because MNOG was released but LOMN wasn't, is LOMN technically not canon?


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#75 Offline fishers64

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Posted Mar 19 2014 - 11:43 AM

 

On the Manas scene, there's actually a significant difference. In the MNOLG, the Kaita are on the verge of being overwhelmed by the monsters, until they destroy the control towers which automatically disables them. In the PC game cinematic, by contrast, the Kaita don't seem to have any trouble beating them through sheer brute force; no towers appear either (but a Manas-Ko does, which doesn't in the MNOLG).

Because MNOG was released but LOMN wasn't, is LOMN technically not canon?

 

Yes.


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#76 Online Sir Kohran

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Posted Mar 19 2014 - 01:54 PM

Also, keep in mind that if the 9/11 theory about the cancellation of the game is indeed true, it's no wonder Templar would picture the Manas fight in a less brutal way.

 

The brutality is basically the same in both versions - the Kaita wack Manas about with their weapons. The MNOLG is arguably more brutal in Wairuha taking a few blows and being briefly knocked out.

 

Templar may not have had access to a fully playable copy of the game, but they certainly would have had plenty of reference information from its production. Look at Onua's dialogue with Kapura in DeepBrick's walkthrough - it very clearly served as the basis for Kapura's first dialogue in MNOLG.

 

I think it was the other way round and Saffire borrowed from Templar. My primary reason is that the PC game was never released, so unless Templar were actually shown the game whilst it was in development, they couldn't have seen the dialogue. Conversely, the Ta-Wahi chapter of the MNOLG was available to everyone since early '01. So it's far more conceivable that Saffire would've seen it from Templar's game than the other way round.

 

Also, the Kapura dialogue is consistent with the detailed and characterised style of the MNOLG, whereas the other Matoran dialogue in the PC game is fairly short and generic.

 

Lastly, it makes more sense for Kapura to be in Ta- than Onu-Wahi.


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#77 Offline Overscore

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Posted Mar 19 2014 - 02:48 PM

Bioran23 apparently contacted Lego about permission to put up the game for public download. Here is the reply:

 

Dear KanohiJournal Representative:I understand that you are seeking information about an unreleased LEGO Group video game product known as "BIONICLE®: The Legend of Mata Nui" (the "Game"). I have been informed that you want to know whether the Game may be made available to the public, either through the KanohiJournal.com web site, or through a third party. I have also heard that there is some interest in altering the Game to bring it from its current developmental stage to a more finished state. The LEGO Group has no plans at present to distribute the Game, nor to license its distribution via outside entities. The LEGO Group suspended its plans to bring the Game to market because it no longer fit within The LEGO Group's overall marketing strategy. The LEGO Group, however, retains all rights in the Game, including the right to control when or if the game is to be released to the public.The LEGO Group is, and always has been, the exclusive worldwide copyright owner for the Game. As such, it would be a violation of LEGO Group intellectual property rights for anyone to copy, publish, host, or distribute the Game, whether in its present state or in any altered form, without express permission from The LEGO Group. This is true regardless of whether a fee is charged for access to the Game. Because The LEGO Group is not prepared to allow the release of the Game, we must respectfully decline to grant permission for the Game to be copied, published, hosted, or distributed by KanohiJournal.com or any third party.The LEGO Group is aware that one or more persons may be in possession of copies of the Game. Any such copies are not authorized copies, and therefore have been made in violation of our intellectual property rights.Thank you for your interest in the BIONICLE® storyline, characters and products. I wish you success in your future online ventures.

 

I thought it might be useful to know.

 

LINK (from old topic)


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#78 Offline Tattorack

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Posted Mar 19 2014 - 03:25 PM

This would be the 9th time I've read this same message from Lego.

Apparntly Lego owns the ENTIRE game, but doesn't want to give it out.

That is very... selfish of them! I mean, how old is it now?? Relic released Homeworld as semi open-source when they considered it too old, and they already had the sequel Homeworld 2.

Despite the fact they were verymuch willing to sell the tech-demo prototype of the originally intended Bionicle 2 game, AND have 2 officially released games (not counting the ones on portable consoles) they still want to keep TLOMNG for themselves...


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#79 Online Pereki

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Posted Mar 19 2014 - 04:45 PM



I think it was the other way round and Saffire borrowed from Templar. My primary reason is that the PC game was never released, so unless Templar were actually shown the game whilst it was in development, they couldn't have seen the dialogue. Conversely, the Ta-Wahi chapter of the MNOLG was available to everyone since early '01. So it's far more conceivable that Saffire would've seen it from Templar's game than the other way round.

 

Also, the Kapura dialogue is consistent with the detailed and characterised style of the MNOLG, whereas the other Matoran dialogue in the PC game is fairly short and generic.

 

Lastly, it makes more sense for Kapura to be in Ta- than Onu-Wahi.

Check out the comments here, particularly my questions and Gordon's response.

 

We had access to the top-secret Bionicle bible, scripts to the comic books, PC and GameBoy game and would pick little elements here and there to interweave with our story for a more unified feel.

 

The implication I've gotten from Kapura's presence in Onu-Wahi, as well as in the final cutscene and as a special entry in the game's glossary, is that he was to be a recurring character in the game. The developers would have presumably fleshed him out more with that in mind.


Edited by Tazakk, Mar 19 2014 - 04:45 PM.

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#80 Offline Overscore

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Posted Mar 19 2014 - 04:46 PM

This would be the 9th time I've read this same message from Lego.

Apparntly Lego owns the ENTIRE game, but doesn't want to give it out.

That is very... selfish of them! I mean, how old is it now?? Relic released Homeworld as semi open-source when they considered it too old, and they already had the sequel Homeworld 2.

Despite the fact they were verymuch willing to sell the tech-demo prototype of the originally intended Bionicle 2 game, AND have 2 officially released games (not counting the ones on portable consoles) they still want to keep TLOMNG for themselves...

Oh sorry I didn't know everyone's read the e-mail before.


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