Anatomy Questions

[Zox Tomana]

Alright, I know that this is an area where "Don't over-think it" comes into play, but I've felt like over-thinking it recently and building some ideas about MU anatomy, using the Matoran Species as a kind of template. With that in mind, I would like to ask, what DO we know? The more Greg-quotes or literature details regarding this, the better, but I haven't the slightest idea where to begin, so I'm asking both in general as well as in specific.

 

Specifically, we know that they have lungs, but why do they need to breath considering that they are supposedly primarily mechanical? For us, O2 is required for cellular processes, but there is no reason to suppose that organic protodermis is protodermis arranged in cell-like structures requiring actual nutrients and gas exchange.

 

Speaking of nutrients, do they need them? As far as I remember the literature seems to imply that they don't, but rather absorb energy either from objects around them or from a kind of "charging station". With this in mind, one has to ask what happens to ingested food, as ingestion is an option. I imagine that there is a process in which energy is absorbed from the food, but what happens to the matter?

 

My last, specific, question is in reference to gears and pistons. Do we know the extent to which they are involved? There are most certainly organic muscles, but are piston/gear systems confirmed to be a significant part of the MU Inhabitant's body? I think the answer "yes" but I'm hoping to get some better information than my memory provides.

 

Right now, the main things I can think that we know are: organic lungs, probably organic brains, a metal frame/skeleton and organic muscles directly beneath an armor shell (with the armor shell and metal frame able to be rebuilt and redesigned), a heartlight which seems to act as an indicator of life, non-organic auditory and visual receptors, and the presence of a mouth and some type of vocal generator. What, if anything, can we add to this list? subtract from it?

[Katuko]

Specifically, we know that they have lungs, but why do they need to breath considering that they are supposedly primarily mechanical? For us, O2 is required for cellular processes, but there is no reason to suppose that organic protodermis is protodermis arranged in cell-like structures requiring actual nutrients and gas exchange.

They still have a brain of undefined material which appears to work much the same as ours do. Their organic parts are - while seemingly isolated from each other - still something that lives in one way or another. As you say Matoran are confirmed to be able to eat, but it seems to me that whichever way they choose to do so (hands or mouth) the food is dissolved into much smaller particles (and energy) before it ever enters any sort of organic digestive system. If the Matoran need specific nutrients to keep their organics alive, I believe they will be extracted and distributed directly during this process. The specialized machines that Matoran use to recharge must work much the same, by feeding them the right "type" of energy. Evidently they can't just grab hold of an electrical outlet and feed from that energy. They have a "battery" of energy, but it are not the kind of battery we know.

 

My last, specific, question is in reference to gears and pistons. Do we know the extent to which they are involved? There are most certainly organic muscles, but are piston/gear systems confirmed to be a significant part of the MU Inhabitant's body? I think the answer "yes" but I'm hoping to get some better information than my memory provides.

The animated movies don't show them as prominently as the sets did, but the piston placement makes me think of the pistons as attached to metal and armor pieces etc. that are supposed to move or bend. They support the structure and possibly help the heavier parts to move so that the muscles won't tire. While they definitely have pistons, though, gears are a bit harder to determine. The ones found on the older sets were made in such a way that you we forced to move arms in the opposite direction of each other - something that is very much non-canon. We also don't see these gears in the movies, but we do see some small pistons. Gears are confirmed to exist in the clockwork of Matoran robots, and are likely included in some bio-mechanical creatures too -- just not on the outside where we can see them.

 

Right now, the main things I can think that we know are: organic lungs, probably organic brains, a metal frame/skeleton and organic muscles directly beneath an armor shell (with the armor shell and metal frame able to be rebuilt and redesigned), a heartlight which seems to act as an indicator of life, non-organic auditory and visual receptors, and the presence of a mouth and some type of vocal generator. What, if anything, can we add to this list? subtract from it?

The organic parts can also regrow themselves - seemingly from nothing, but it likely depends on how they were removed. For example, the Toa Mata rebuilt themselves after exiting their canisters, and the Matoran can replace their bodies with stronger parts. Lariska, on the other hand, has a completely mechanical arm - evidently she could not regrow any lost muscles there. We have not gotten any information about how this muscle regeneration works, exactly.

 

 

Also, I believe there is/was an official topic for discussing Matoran biology, though it may have been lost at some point. The Reference Desk seems pretty empty.

[bonesiii]

FTR to others reading, Zox had discussed this topic briefly by PM with me before posting. I'll quote part of it about the organic brain issue just to be clear:

 

the evidence shows that they are almost certainly organic. Matoran easily think of Krana as "brains" and Krana are entirely organic. Kraata also are totally organic and thus have organic brains. And when talking about the destroyed robotic processors (and whole bodies) of the Kal, Kopaka commented that they weren't alive as Matoran/Toa know it, so didn't really die in the same sense. This is almost certainly referring to their lack of organic brains (apart from Krana, which weren't destroyed).

To expand on that last bit, actually having robotic brains would seem to be off the table too; they're not "cybernetic" but "biomechanical" indicating that mere mechanical things is all that's available for the most part for the non-bio side. Although the heartlight, ears, and eyes do seem to qualify as robotics. But having brains literally made of hundreds of tiny gears more advanced than Vahki seems extremely unlikely. Plus there's the whole emotions thing. So I'd say it's clear they're organic.

 

One more quote from my PM:

 

Where gears are typically shown in the sets are for roleplaying purposes; arm-spinning gimmicks for example, and those gears in the Toa Nuva are missing in the movie versions; they may be set standins for muscles. There are definitely gears in Vahki, but in Matoran/etc. it's unclear. And they might actually be much less efficient than muscles.

Another problem is you wouldn't want muscles right next to gears -- imagine getting part of a muscle caught in gear teeth. Ouchers.

 

But if gears do help the efficiency of something and the metal framework keeps them separate from the organic parts, I'd say it's possible. Clearly not the same as the set gears, but yeah.

 

Specifically, we know that they have lungs, but why do they need to breath considering that they are supposedly primarily mechanical? For us, O2 is required for cellular processes, but there is no reason to suppose that organic protodermis is protodermis arranged in cell-like structures requiring actual nutrients and gas exchange.

Both my protodermis theory and (if memory serves I think I mentioned it) retelling deal with this. It shouldn't hurt to explain the part about oxygen. Basically I see each protodermis molecule as sufficiently advanced to be comparable to a "mini-cell" -- the "organic" ones simply have sections activated that inorganic don't. And it has been found that some molecules processes that can run without oxygen can be made up to 15 times more efficient with the use of oxygen. So, oxygen could power far more processing, which makes sense under the "bio means more processing potential is switched on" theory.

 

I suspect given the disconnected, bloodless layout that it's a little more complex than that; the lungs supercharge some kind of device with energy which then transmits energy to the other organic protodermis, as one possibility.

 

Speaking of nutrients, do they need them? As far as I remember the literature seems to imply that they don't, but rather absorb energy either from objects around them or from a kind of "charging station". With this in mind, one has to ask what happens to ingested food, as ingestion is an option. I imagine that there is a process in which energy is absorbed from the food, but what happens to the matter?

This is a point I haven't dealt with much in my story, but in general it seems they do have the power to convert certain material to energy. It would make sense, because Toa do the opposite all the time, converting EE to elements. Probably certain types of matter make certain types of energy, which internal molecular-power processes convert back to the right material in the right place to maintain the molecular infrastructure. Rather than converting to raw energy which would be much more unstable (think nuclear bomb) but would have the advantage of meaning anything would work for food. So, they would need to absorb certain types of matter, not just anything, explaining the need to prepare actual food.

 

 

 

The specialized machines that Matoran use to recharge must work much the same, by feeding them the right "type" of energy. Evidently they can't just grab hold of an electrical outlet and feed from that energy.

Agreed. In general this would apparently be what is called "life energy." Interestingly this energy apparently predates the artificial protodermis, as the naturally organic Sea Squids from the Great Sea (Aqua Magna) also absorb it. So it seems this is part of Agori biology as well and the Matoran were designed to mimic that.

 

The organic parts can also regrow themselves - seemingly from nothing, but it likely depends on how they were removed. For example, the Toa Mata rebuilt themselves after exiting their canisters, and the Matoran can replace their bodies with stronger parts. Lariska, on the other hand, has a completely mechanical arm - evidently she could not regrow any lost muscles there. We have not gotten any information about how this muscle regeneration works, exactly.

It's probably safe to assume there are "muscle buds" that have to be moved from the old body to the next, operating on a principle like adult stem cells (like those in bone marrow that generate blood cells). Lose a "bud" and it stands to reason the muscle can't regrow.

[Zox Tomana]

As you say Matoran are confirmed to be able to eat, but it seems to me that whichever way they choose to do so (hands or mouth) the food is dissolved into much smaller particles (and energy) before it ever enters any sort of organic digestive system. If the Matoran need specific nutrients to keep their organics alive, I believe they will be extracted and distributed directly during this process. The specialized machines that Matoran use to recharge must work much the same, by feeding them the right "type" of energy. Evidently they can't just grab hold of an electrical outlet and feed from that energy. They have a "battery" of energy, but it are not the kind of battery we know.

Thing is, you can't really get nutrients from an energy cell, so wouldn't it make more sense that the volar (of or relating the palm of the hand or sole of the foot) or oral receptors don't take in nutrients at all, but rather convert them to energy? A kind of organic matter/organic proto matter-to-proto energy conversion, then proto energy-to-organic proto conversion? No wonder they fist-bump rather than shaking hands. To shake hands would be like french kissing someone O.o

 

The animated movies don't show them as prominently as the sets did, but the piston placement makes me think of the pistons as attached to metal and armor pieces etc. that are supposed to move or bend. They support the structure and possibly help the heavier parts to move so that the muscles won't tire. While they definitely have pistons, though, gears are a bit harder to determine. The ones found on the older sets were made in such a way that you we forced to move arms in the opposite direction of each other - something that is very much non-canon. We also don't see these gears in the movies, but we do see some small pistons.

I recently re-watched the scene where Lhikan dies in LoMN, and you can see gears in Vakama's chest, and while I never saw the movie, I remember seeing clips from TLR where moving gear-ish things are on the Glatorian (which is weird when you consider the gears in LoMN are never seen to move). I have a feeling that the arms moving in alternate ways is more about the limitations of the sets (think the terribly tiny cavity in which you had to put the gears for the Toa Metru) than the actual movement expected in a species with gears involved in movement.

 

The organic parts can also regrow themselves - seemingly from nothing, but it likely depends on how they were removed. For example, the Toa Mata rebuilt themselves after exiting their canisters, and the Matoran can replace their bodies with stronger parts. Lariska, on the other hand, has a completely mechanical arm - evidently she could not regrow any lost muscles there. We have not gotten any information about how this muscle regeneration works, exactly.

I hadn't thought of this yet, but Bones' idea of buds seems to be fairly reasonable. Speaking of Bones' comments

 

Another problem is you wouldn't want muscles right next to gears -- imagine getting part of a muscle caught in gear teeth. Ouchers.

 

But if gears do help the efficiency of something and the metal framework keeps them separate from the organic parts, I'd say it's possible. Clearly not the same as the set gears, but yeah.

I had thought of this, and I do have an idea about the purpose of gears in a system which uses perfectly good muscles as well as them needing to be separated.

 

 

Specifically, we know that they have lungs, but why do they need to breath considering that they are supposedly primarily mechanical? For us, O2 is required for cellular processes, but there is no reason to suppose that organic protodermis is protodermis arranged in cell-like structures requiring actual nutrients and gas exchange.

Both my protodermis theory and (if memory serves I think I mentioned it) retelling deal with this. It shouldn't hurt to explain the part about oxygen. Basically I see each protodermis molecule as sufficiently advanced to be comparable to a "mini-cell" -- the "organic" ones simply have sections activated that inorganic don't. And it has been found that some molecules processes that can run without oxygen can be made up to 15 times more efficient with the use of oxygen. So, oxygen could power far more processing, which makes sense under the "bio means more processing potential is switched on" theory.

 

I suspect given the disconnected, bloodless layout that it's a little more complex than that; the lungs supercharge some kind of device with energy which then transmits energy to the other organic protodermis, as one possibility.

 

Probably certain types of matter make certain types of energy, which internal molecular-power processes convert back to the right material in the right place to maintain the molecular infrastructure. Rather than converting to raw energy which would be much more unstable (think nuclear bomb) but would have the advantage of meaning anything would work for food. So, they would need to absorb certain types of matter, not just anything, explaining the need to prepare actual food.

So, you would say at this point both respiration and digestion are more a function of transferring energy than distribution of actual food or air particles, correct? Once the energy is distributed, it is used, transferred on, or converted back to matter as required by the proto molecules on the receiving end. Edited February 19, 2014 by Zox

[Katuko]

Thing is, you can't really get nutrients from an energy cell, so wouldn't it make more sense that the volar (of or relating the palm of the hand or sole of the foot) or oral receptors don't take in nutrients at all, but rather convert them to energy?

Converting eligible food to some form of energy is what the receptors do, but "energy" takes many forms. In our bodies we break down food and store energy as fat, so I wouldn't put it beyond BIONICLE characters to break food down into some form of "nutrient food energy" cloud thingy that is stored in their "stomach" battery.

 

To shake hands would be like french kissing someone O.o

While I doubt the Matoran themselves would ever think of it like that, it brings up the interesting question of whether they could try to absorb energy from another living being. I'd say no because they only have magnetism available for gripping metal tools and other objects, while the receptors are likely one-way. But if you - as a Matoran - gripped someone's exposed organic muscle, could you... eat it?

 

I recently re-watched the scene where Lhikan dies in LoMN, and you can see gears in Vakama's chest, and while I never saw the movie, I remember seeing clips from TLR where moving gear-ish things are on the Glatorian (which is weird when you consider the gears in LoMN are never seen to move). I have a feeling that the arms moving in alternate ways is more about the limitations of the sets (think the terribly tiny cavity in which you had to put the gears for the Toa Metru) than the actual movement expected in a species with gears involved in movement.

You're right, there is something in there. It looks like one big cogwheel, though, not several smaller ones. Plus, it's another case of why would you have holes in your armor!? Sheez!

 

I hadn't thought of this yet, but Bones' idea of buds seems to be fairly reasonable.

I agree. They would work much like sockets do on sets, I imagine. If it's there, you can "snap" the parts on and have them integrate by growing muscle. If not, you need to attach cybernetics or something instead.

[fishers64]

 

To shake hands would be like french kissing someone O.o

 

Actually no...it's mentioned in Downfall that Jaller and Matoro actually shook hands:

 

Matoro reached out and shook Jaller's hand, both of them knowing it would be for the last time.

 

In any case, I think Matoran would find cannibalism as revolting, if not more so, than we do.

Edited February 20, 2014 by fishers64

[CaT in Rogue]

 

Thing is, you can't really get nutrients from an energy cell, so wouldn't it make more sense that the volar (of or relating the palm of the hand or sole of the foot) or oral receptors don't take in nutrients at all, but rather convert them to energy?

Converting eligible food to some form of energy is what the receptors do, but "energy" takes many forms. In our bodies we break down food and store energy as fat, so I wouldn't put it beyond BIONICLE characters to break food down into some form of "nutrient food energy" cloud thingy that is stored in their "stomach" battery.

 

To shake hands would be like french kissing someone O.o

While I doubt the Matoran themselves would ever think of it like that, it brings up the interesting question of whether they could try to absorb energy from another living being. I'd say no because they only have magnetism available for gripping metal tools and other objects, while the receptors are likely one-way. But if you - as a Matoran - gripped someone's exposed organic muscle, could you... eat it?

Technically speaking, eating someone's organic parts through your hands would probably be possible as a Matoran. Of course, me going out and eating my neighbor is also technically possible, but there are numerous issues with that idea.

 

Also, thanks in advance for my nightmares for the next few weeks. That is some fridge horror I never thought I would encounter.

[Zox Tomana]

Technically speaking, eating someone's organic parts through your hands would probably be possible as a Matoran. Of course, me going out and eating my neighbor is also technically possible, but there are numerous issues with that idea.

 

Also, thanks in advance for my nightmares for the next few weeks. That is some fridge horror I never thought I would encounter.

You're welcome

 

Okay. So, I'm about 2500 words into this thing I'm writing out, and I realizing that I have next to nothing to base my thoughts about the nervous system on. Organic brain... Mech eyes and ears... Is there anything else we can say? =/ Anything we can base some guesses on?

[CaT in Rogue]

 

Technically speaking, eating someone's organic parts through your hands would probably be possible as a Matoran. Of course, me going out and eating my neighbor is also technically possible, but there are numerous issues with that idea. Also, thanks in advance for my nightmares for the next few weeks. That is some fridge horror I never thought I would encounter.

You're welcome ^_^Okay. So, I'm about 2500 words into this thing I'm writing out, and I realizing that I have next to nothing to base my thoughts about the nervous system on. Organic brain... Mech eyes and ears... Is there anything else we can say? =/ Anything we can base some guesses on?

Well, I would think it's fairly safe to assume that their nervous system would work similarly to a humans. Whether or not they have a spinal cord is up for debate; however, I would venture to guess that they do have an organic system as opposed to a mechanical one, due to the lack of prominent wires or cables in their physiology that would seemingly be required to mechanically transfer data from their brains to their body parts. However, I can't deny that some form of mechanical nervous system might be possible.

[Zox Tomana]

 

 

Technically speaking, eating someone's organic parts through your hands would probably be possible as a Matoran. Of course, me going out and eating my neighbor is also technically possible, but there are numerous issues with that idea. Also, thanks in advance for my nightmares for the next few weeks. That is some fridge horror I never thought I would encounter.

You're welcome ^_^Okay. So, I'm about 2500 words into this thing I'm writing out, and I realizing that I have next to nothing to base my thoughts about the nervous system on. Organic brain... Mech eyes and ears... Is there anything else we can say? =/ Anything we can base some guesses on?

 

Well, I would think it's fairly safe to assume that their nervous system would work similarly to a humans. Whether or not they have a spinal cord is up for debate; however, I would venture to guess that they do have an organic system as opposed to a mechanical one, due to the lack of prominent wires or cables in their physiology that would seemingly be required to mechanically transfer data from their brains to their body parts. However, I can't deny that some form of mechanical nervous system might be possible.

 

This is about where I am: making the supposition that sensory input is primarily mechanical, while the periphery and central nervous systems are organic based. I'm assuming a spinal cord, but I am unsure. My next system is fully supposition, but is needed due to current thinking regarding systems we know of. I'd at least like a little more certainty in the nervous system, as well as the storage of Elemental/Elemental-type energy.

[ALVIS]

 

 

To shake hands would be like french kissing someone O.o

 

Actually no...it's mentioned in Downfall that Jaller and Matoro actually shook hands

 

I ship it. XD

[fishers64]

 

 

 

To shake hands would be like french kissing someone O.o

 

Actually no...it's mentioned in Downfall that Jaller and Matoro actually shook hands

 

I ship it. XD

 

There was no romantic context involved! For Pete's sake, it was a sad farewell parting between two friends, not to mention a capstone on Jaller's trust in Matoro to save the universe. That's not even close to funny. > Show some respect.

[Zox Tomana]

 

 

 

 

To shake hands would be like french kissing someone O.o

 

Actually no...it's mentioned in Downfall that Jaller and Matoro actually shook hands

 

I ship it. XD

 

There was no romantic context involved! For Pete's sake, it was a sad farewell parting between two friends, not to mention a capstone on Jaller's trust in Matoro to save the universe. That's not even close to funny. > Show some respect.

 

Besides, it has nothing to do with topic at hand (the hands...they keep coming back).

[ALVIS]

 

 

 

 

 

To shake hands would be like french kissing someone O.o

 

Actually no...it's mentioned in Downfall that Jaller and Matoro actually shook hands

 

I ship it. XD

 

There was no romantic context involved! For Pete's sake, it was a sad farewell parting between two friends, not to mention a capstone on Jaller's trust in Matoro to save the universe. That's not even close to funny. > Show some respect.

 

Besides, it has nothing to do with topic at hand (the hands...they keep coming back).

 

 

Nice pun. I really have to hand it to you there.

[FallenCor]

 

 

 

 

 

 

To shake hands would be like french kissing someone O.o

 

Actually no...it's mentioned in Downfall that Jaller and Matoro actually shook hands

I ship it. XD

There was no romantic context involved! For Pete's sake, it was a sad farewell parting between two friends, not to mention a capstone on Jaller's trust in Matoro to save the universe. That's not even close to funny. > Show some respect.

Besides, it has nothing to do with topic at hand (the hands...they keep coming back).

 

Nice pun. I really have to hand it to you there.

Alright, knuckleheads, let's get a grip and get back on topic; assuming you can handle it, of course.

 

 

On the topic of cannibalism: Ewwwwww? Although I suppose I should thank you all for giving me more horror fodder. *nonchalantly pulls out a notepad and pen*

[Katuko]

On the topic of cannibalism: Ewwwwww? Although I suppose I should thank you all for giving me more horror fodder. *nonchalantly pulls out a notepad and pen*

Well, I think the worst Matoran would ever actually do would be to re-use armor scraps from a dead Matoran - provided the corpse didn't vanish as expected, of course. If they view disappearing as the natural state of a corpse, then manually making it disappear and "live on" as a useful part of society does sound like something they could get behind. Besides, "eating" organics by dissolving it isn't all that gross compared to actually chewing it.

 

So when the Skakdi Reidak says "I pick my teeth with Rahkshi", does he mean it literally? And when Zaktan leaves a (puddle of a) corpse with a mask that looks "half-chewed", what does that mean? He hopefully used his laser vision to melt the guy, but the alternative (devouring him with a swarm of protodites) seems... strangely appealing to me now, from a macabre story-telling perspective.

 

Also: Is it cannibalism if you eat someone who is not of your species, or do we have a different word for it then?

[FallenCor]

Also: Is it cannibalism if you eat someone who is not of your species, or do we have a different word for it then?

Survival of the fittest.

 

 

Thank you, BZP, for making me sit here wondering if Matoran are edible. I was a normal human-being before I joined this site.

[ALVIS]

The ideas in this thread provide so much inspiration for future fanfics.

 

...By that, I mean MU cannibal horror stories, not Jaller/Matoro slashfics.

[Katuko]

So while searching for facts I found this:

"Onua the Unbeatable", by Vhrano.

 

I might just be headcanon'ing this now.

 

 

I mean, the things are organic and thus very much edible, no?

Edited February 22, 2014 by Katuko

[FallenCor]

So while searching for facts I found this:

"Onua the Unbeatable", by Vhrano.

 

I might just be headcanon'ing this now.

 

 

I mean, the things are organic and thus very much edible, no?

By the sword of Mata Nui...

[Zox Tomana]

 

So while searching for facts I found this:

"Onua the Unbeatable", by Vhrano.

 

I might just be headcanon'ing this now.

 

 

I mean, the things are organic and thus very much edible, no?

By the sword of Mata Nui...

 

Err... If it was that easy, what about Lewa? =P Katuko, Bones, and I noted that they seem to only absorb energy from particular sources, and I doubt Krana classify.

 

And organic does not equal edible. Crude Oil is organic, but you're gonna have a terrible time if you eat that stuff. Hair is also organic. I don't think any of us want to eat that. We can also bring up a TON or natural poisons that are organic, but definitely not food.

[Katuko]

And organic does not equal edible. Crude Oil is organic, but you're gonna have a terrible time if you eat that stuff. Hair is also organic. I don't think any of us want to eat that. We can also bring up a TON or natural poisons that are organic, but definitely not food.

Ah, but you can eat a lot of things that are not of any particular worth to you as well. For example, you can probably consume someone's brain matter without receiving either nutrition or poison from it. And since Krana are said to be brains, well... I think someone like a Skakdi could eat it. Kraata, on the other hand, are made up of solid antidermis which seems to carry the ability to infect you at will. For that reason I consider Kraata to be inedible even if a Matoran was to spear and cook it, while a Kraana would be the equivalent of marine life such as starfish - edible, but not really nice to prepare and certainly not worth more than your everyday fish.

 

EDIT: Like Silverglass, I also want to extend a thanks to this community for allowing me to debate the finer aspects of biomechancial brain-eating without it being all that much off topic.

Edited February 23, 2014 by Katuko

[Pupwa21]

Quick question: do MU beings have thumbs? Sets don't show it, but other media does.

[JAG18]

Yes, absolutely. The reason the sets don't have them is probably because it would be hard to put (good looking) fingers on sets.

[FallenCor]

Yes, absolutely. The reason the sets don't have them is probably because it would be hard to put (good looking) fingers on sets.

Speaking of, has it been confirmed how many digits are on a Matoran/Toa/Turaga's hand? I automatically draw them (Agori/Glatorian included) with five digits -- perhaps fewer with slightly less human-looking races -- so I just assume five.

[JAG18]

 

Yes, absolutely. The reason the sets don't have them is probably because it would be hard to put (good looking) fingers on sets.

Speaking of, has it been confirmed how many digits are on a Matoran/Toa/Turaga's hand? I automatically draw them (Agori/Glatorian included) with five digits -- perhaps fewer with slightly less human-looking races -- so I just assume five.

 

We really only have the movies to tell us this, interestingly I just checked the Legend Reborn and found that all the Spherus Magnans only had four digits, just like their sets.

[FallenCor]

 

 

Yes, absolutely. The reason the sets don't have them is probably because it would be hard to put (good looking) fingers on sets.

Speaking of, has it been confirmed how many digits are on a Matoran/Toa/Turaga's hand? I automatically draw them (Agori/Glatorian included) with five digits -- perhaps fewer with slightly less human-looking races -- so I just assume five.

 

We really only have the movies to tell us this, interestingly I just checked the Legend Reborn and found that all the Spherus Magnans only had four digits, just like their sets.

 

Yeah, but I thought that was due to the filmmakers trying to make them more set-accurate. It'd be like aliens getting their hands on a minifig and saying "welp, guess that means humans have only two digits on each hand." *shrug*

[JAG18]

Unfortunately, unless someone can find a quote in one of the BIONCILE books that say something to the effect of, "Tahu counted his fingers and saw that there were five," that's about all we know about BIONICLE digits.

 

Strange, that no ones brought this up before.

Edited February 23, 2014 by JAG18

[Zox Tomana]

 

 

 

Yes, absolutely. The reason the sets don't have them is probably because it would be hard to put (good looking) fingers on sets.

Speaking of, has it been confirmed how many digits are on a Matoran/Toa/Turaga's hand? I automatically draw them (Agori/Glatorian included) with five digits -- perhaps fewer with slightly less human-looking races -- so I just assume five.

 

We really only have the movies to tell us this, interestingly I just checked the Legend Reborn and found that all the Spherus Magnans only had four digits, just like their sets.

 

Yeah, but I thought that was due to the filmmakers trying to make them more set-accurate. It'd be like aliens getting their hands on a minifig and saying "welp, guess that means humans have only two digits on each hand." *shrug*

 

I guess this means no one has anything to say about the Nervous System XD

 

In earlier movies, MU Inhabitants are shown with 5 digits, so there isn't really a consistent answer. I swear there was a Greg Answer, but I wouldn't begin to know where it is.

[JAG18]

 

 

 

 

Yes, absolutely. The reason the sets don't have them is probably because it would be hard to put (good looking) fingers on sets.

Speaking of, has it been confirmed how many digits are on a Matoran/Toa/Turaga's hand? I automatically draw them (Agori/Glatorian included) with five digits -- perhaps fewer with slightly less human-looking races -- so I just assume five.

 

We really only have the movies to tell us this, interestingly I just checked the Legend Reborn and found that all the Spherus Magnans only had four digits, just like their sets.

 

Yeah, but I thought that was due to the filmmakers trying to make them more set-accurate. It'd be like aliens getting their hands on a minifig and saying "welp, guess that means humans have only two digits on each hand." *shrug*

 

I guess this means no one has anything to say about the Nervous System XD

 

In earlier movies, MU Inhabitants are shown with 5 digits, so there isn't really a consistent answer. I swear there was a Greg Answer, but I wouldn't begin to know where it is.

 

Greg is still over at the LEGO Message Boards, so it's possible we could run this by him over there and hope to get an answer.

 

Also, it might be possible that the MU people have five digits and that the SM people only have four.

[Katuko]

Strange, that no ones brought this up before.

It's been brought up before.

 

We pretty much concluded the Matoran species is supposed to have 5 fingers. The most "real" appearance we have seen of the characters were in the movies, where they had 5. In other media we only see LEGO pieces for hands, or in the case of BIONICLE: The Game we see some version of the two-finger claws that the Toa Mata sets used.

[JAG18]

 

Strange, that no ones brought this up before.

It's been brought up before.

 

We pretty much concluded the Matoran species is supposed to have 5 fingers. The most "real" appearance we have seen of the characters were in the movies, where they had 5. In other media we only see LEGO pieces for hands, or in the case of BIONICLE: The Game we see some version of the two-finger claws that the Toa Mata sets used.

 

Well, I'll be a Muaka's dinner...

 

What about the Glatorian and Agori in the Legend Reborn? If that was their most "real" appearance, then they all have four fingers instead of five.

And if you say, "That's because they needed to follow the sets," then should we say that the MU inhabitants sets "trump" their movie appearances?

 

(And yes, I might be just over thinking this, but still )

[Katuko]

And if you say, "That's because they needed to follow the sets," then should we say that the MU inhabitants sets "trump" their movie appearances?

No, it would be the opposite. The sets are obviously not the most realistic way to portray a BIONICLE character, so the first three movies generally trumps their sets. In The Legend Reborn the style is pretty much the LEGO set form, so neither of them really trumps the other. The Glatorian don't look very organic at all, for example, despite being estimated as 85% organic by Greg. Thus trying to guess at the finer aspects of their canonically organic anatomy from decidedly non-organic models is futile. Edited February 23, 2014 by Katuko

[JAG18]

 

And if you say, "That's because they needed to follow the sets," then should we say that the MU inhabitants sets "trump" their movie appearances?

No, it would be the opposite. The sets are obviously not the most realistic way to portray a BIONICLE character, so the first three movies generally trumps their sets. In The Legend Reborn the style is pretty much the LEGO set form, so neither of them really trumps the other. The Glatorian don't look very organic at all, for example, despite being estimated as 85% organic by Greg. Thus trying to guess at the finer aspects of their canonically organic anatomy from decidedly non-organic models is futile.

 

Well, that definitely makes sense...a lot of sense. Although, doesn't that leave us (or maybe just me ) still wondering, how many fingers a Glatorian has?

 

...If anyone thinks I'm just over thinking this stuff just tell me and I'll try to be content.

Edited February 23, 2014 by JAG18

[bonesiii]

...If anyone thinks I'm just over thinking this stuff just tell me and I'll try to be content.

Probably this.

 

I tend to lean more toward a thumb and three fingers, leaving off the pinky, but even in my art I'm probably inconsistent about that. I think it's one of those things we're supposed to be free to see either way we prefer. (Not like on LOST where a four-toed statue is "disturbing" to Sayid. In Bionicle we generally seem to barely notice lol.)

[JAG18]

 

...If anyone thinks I'm just over thinking this stuff just tell me and I'll try to be content.

Probably this.

Alright, thanks for the heads up.

 

Anyway, if we're talking personal preference, then I think the Agori and Glatorian both have three fingers and a thumb, but when the Great Beings were looking for inspiration for their MU creations they went, "Nah, lets add a fifth finger."

[Katuko]

The portrayal of fingers can be very inconsistent in comics.

 

 

As you can see, even though Hunter (left) and Beetle (right) are of the same species and race, they appear have a varying amount of fingers.

 

 

I don't know if Glatorian would even miss that 5th finger. The pinky is only really used now and then for precision work of sorts, and if you're born with 3 main fingers instead of 4 they will naturally be spaced in such a way that they fulfill almost the same purpose.

 

If this guy can hold and fire a pistol, and a similar three-fingered alien species can be well known as skilled mechanics; and if it's true as Ghost in the Shell shows up that more fingers = better workflow... then Glatorian shouldn't have any trouble with a massive 33% finger advantage over other tech-savvy fictional races.

[Tattorack]

Ok, kind late answer, but what's in the chest of the Toa Metru in LoMN looks more like ust star shaped muscle structure than gears... actually it looks a lot like star shaped muscle structure. Or at least its the "fancy" part of their armour, since I suppose gears mean that they're apart from the rest and can actually move/rotate. This looks like its just engraved or something:

Vakama

Onewa

Nuju

(Seeing the Metru with loads of their muscle exposed really helps put the uniqueness of the Nuva in perspective more than the sets do ^^ )

Edited March 3, 2014 by Tattorack

[Katuko]

I really hope the muscles have some form of minor covering, maybe being put in thin tubes of some sort, because otherwise they are really very vulnerable to harm. Then again, it does makes sense since this is pretty much a Toa's "unarmored" state, where they have basic protective plating but nothing extra. The basic state would be like a human with no armor - fleshy and vulnerable, particularly when we consider that a bio-mechanical being's strength is high enough to puncture metal anyways.

[Tattorack]

I really hope the muscles have some form of minor covering, maybe being put in thin tubes of some sort, because otherwise they are really very vulnerable to harm. Then again, it does makes sense since this is pretty much a Toa's "unarmored" state, where they have basic protective plating but nothing extra. The basic state would be like a human with no armor - fleshy and vulnerable, particularly when we consider that a bio-mechanical being's strength is high enough to puncture metal anyways.

Well... exposed or not, they're a lot less vulnerable than we are. First of, a Human (or an Agori in this case) cannot have muscle exposed to the elements without skin.

Their organinc parts/bits have also extreme regenerative capabilities like the Mata have shown us back in 2001 (as long as they have these "buds" or tendons still there).

So a damaged muscle is not as bad with them as it is with us (where such damage would be permenant).