Great Beings

[Click]

I was just searching through the Chat with Greg Farshtey topic on the Lego.com forums, and I found that the story team had decided that Great beings were biomechanical [bones: Just so no false rumors get started, this quote is NOT talking about Great Beings -- see further posts below]. This led me to wonder: what else do we know about the Great Being's appearance? I would assume that they are at least as tall as a Toa (so they don't have to look up at most of their creations), and there's been some suggestion that they wear clothes like Agori (see this image, lower left corner), but even Greg says they haven't had a full appearance. (Though he also stated in the same post he likes to think they are a similar species to Glatorian) Is there anything I missed?

 

Oh, and I also took the chance to ask about The Yesterday Quest Toa's gear. He said he'd have to read over the story, but he may answer back!

 

EDIT: Thanks, fishers. Links fixed.

Edited February 19, 2014 by bonesiii
fixed another link for you, also, a rumor-stopping note added, heh. -bones

[fishers64]

Er, not sure where you're getting the "bio-mechanical" stuff from - all I got was this (some of the links in your post appear to be broken ):

https://community.lego.com/t5/LEGO-General/Chat-with-Greg-Farshtey/m-p/8859942/highlight/true#M195197

 

firecheetahaspie wrote:
Dear Mr. Farshtey,
I'm not sure if anyone's asked you this before, but what does a Great Being resemble in it's true form? Do they each have their own unique form, or are part of a single race?

What the GBs look like was never detailed in a story bible, because we had no plans to show them in their true form. But my own feeling is that they were part of the same species as the Glatorian.

This would probably add up to the fact they are biomechanical, as the Agori/Glatorian are too, but I want to follow what you're getting at.

 

For further reference, here's how to link to a specific post on the LMB :

1. On the upper-right hand corner, there is a button marked "Options". Open that menu and click "Highlight".

2. Copy the address of the link out of the address bar.

 

Hope this helps!

[Click]

It's actually on the page before. Now I have all the links fixed so you can see it. I thought that BZP just removed all the links because they were from the Lego forums as part of the old advertising rule, but it was probably because I tried posting this on my iPod.

[Makuta Luroka]

Keep in mind that the Glatorian are organic.

[Zox Tomana]

The first link you have to a Greg quote is one answering a question about the Bota Magna dinosaurs, not the Great Beings. Also, if the GB's are like Glatorian, then they are primarily organic but perhaps with mechanical implants.

[Click]

Wow...*facepalm*. And I got so excited about it too.

[bonesiii]

I've fixed another messed up link for you... and while I was at it, knowing how false rumors can get started from people who don't read the replies, I added a note clarifying that quote in the first post (the red color is only to grab attention).

 

They probably do have implants just like the Agori/Glatorian (who got those, after all, from the Great Beings), probably more advanced versions at that, but would not be naturally biomechanical.

 

there's been some suggestion that they wear clothes like Agori

Not just suggestion; confirmed. They wear concealing robes, basically like Darth Sidious of Star Wars. We have known at least that they wear "cloaks" since the start of the final 2006 book Inferno; it's literally the second word in the whole book, and shortly after that, I had PMed Greg to get confirmation I'd read it right (that they're not "cloaked" in the sense of being invisible, although they were that too in that scene). No, I don't have the exact quote handy, though. That's what you're seeing in the image you linked to (that's the link I fixed, BTW). They also show up in this image of the Core War:

 

http://biosector01.com/wiki/images/a/a2/Art_Core_War.jpg

 

Note that that's not quite "like Agori"; the Agori wear clothing, but under their armor, presumably originally like we do, but now it also helps protect their skin from for example the armor getting hot due to living in a desert (or cold, etc.). The GBs' confirmed robes/cloaks are worn on the outside. We didn't have any clue previously whether they might be armored underneath this, but now it sounds that way (and presumably another layer of cloth beneath that like Agori). Of course, if Agori want to wear over-robes too, nothing's stopping them.

 

I would assume that they are at least as tall as a Toa (so they don't have to look up at most of their creations)

Considering the Glatorian in the foreground of the above image would look bigger because they're closer to the "camera", yes, it looks like they are Toa/Glatorian height. Possibly slightly shorter, or if more distance is meant to be implied, maybe a bit taller. But likely not as tall as for example Makuta 2003.

[Makuta Luroka]

As stated before, they are a sub-species of glatorian. So, their height would indubitably be comparable to that of a toa.

[bonesiii]

As stated before, they are a sub-species of glatorian. So, their height would indubitably be comparable to that of a toa.

Be careful with statements of certainty. Notice Greg never confirmed that:

 

What the GBs look like was never detailed in a story bible, because we had no plans to show them in their true form. But my own feeling is that they were part of the same species as the Glatorian.

Also, we can't completely rule out that they might be like Tuma is to Skrall, or even midway between Glatorian height and Agori. However, most likely you are correct.

[Makuta Luroka]

 

As stated before, they are a sub-species of glatorian. So, their height would indubitably be comparable to that of a toa.

Be careful with statements of certainty. Notice Greg never confirmed that

Noted.

[25K Now!]

 

What the GBs look like was never detailed in a story bible, because we had no plans to show them in their true form. But my own feeling is that they were part of the same species as the Glatorian.

Also, we can't completely rule out that they might be like Tuma is to Skrall, or even midway between Glatorian height and Agori. However, most likely you are correct.

 

It'd actually be quite interesting to know how a Glatorian-like species actually came to such power.

[Katuko]

Technology seems to grant them most of their power(s), so they likely accumulated their knowledge much the same we humans do: Studying nature to learn how things work, and then lots of trial and error to put the knowledge into practice. Ruling the planet comes naturally from sitting on all the knowledge and all the tech, then using it to aid the rest of the species. People are usually inclined to follow those who are superior in some way, and if they weren't malevolent there would be little reason for most Agori to revolt.

 

The Great Beings also received some form of mental boost/creative spark/knowledge expansion from Anonna when it tried to feed on their dreams, which may have put them further apart from otherwise like-minded beings. If the Great Beings were indeed just a higher class of the Glatorian species, then Anonna's doings must have widened the gap even more.

[Makuta Luroka]

Technology seems to grant them most of their power(s), so they likely accumulated their knowledge much the same we humans do: Studying nature to learn how things work, and then lots of trial and error to put the knowledge into practice. Ruling the planet comes naturally from sitting on all the knowledge and all the tech, then using it to aid the rest of the species. People are usually inclined to follow those who are superior in some way, and if they weren't malevolent there would be little reason for most Agori to revolt.

 

The Great Beings also received some form of mental boost/creative spark/knowledge expansion from Anonna when it tried to feed on their dreams, which may have put them further apart from otherwise like-minded beings. If the Great Beings were indeed just a higher class of the Glatorian species, then Anonna's doings must have widened the gap even more.

Makes a ton of sense. They haven't explicitly shown any actual powers, so they probably just use advanced technology.

[fruiteaterz]

great beings are more like extraterrestrial lifeforms which are neither humans nor bionicles but resembling more of a hybrid between megatron and optimus prime. from another critical perspective one could say that the "great beings" are in fact the creator of the bionicles, that is to say anyone who have purchased, or played with bionicles is a great being. whether it is a child, dog, ufo or god himself can be a great being as long as he or she met at least of of the qualifications to be considered as one, which are the fact of having built a bionicle etc. since greg never said that my theory is wrong nor has he confirmed if am right, with upmost prudence and dignity it is safe to assume there are over 2 million great beings who are the fans that inhabit mother earth. all in all they are something along those lines. having said that, i am almost certain that my theory is 100% accurate to whatever is going on greg's creative mind. however the question still remains who is eligible to be the greatest being? is it greg or megatron? that is for you to decide...

Edited February 22, 2014 by fruiteaterz

[Abg]

Maybe, Greg Farshtey doesn't give information about the Great Beings because he wants us to create our own sequel to Bionicle. Remember "Yesterday Quest", it's endless.

[bonesiii]

since greg never said that my theory is wrong nor has he confirmed if am right, with upmost prudence and dignity it is safe to assume there are over 2 million great beings who are the fans that inhabit mother earth. all in all they are something along those lines. having said that, i am almost certain that my theory is 100% accurate

I assumed you were kidding at first, but since you said the things starting and ending this quote, just for the record, Greg confirmed Great Beings are natives to the planet of Spherus Magna. That definitely precludes any such idea, but you're free to headcanon whatever you like.

[FallenCor]

I kind of want this to be canon now?? It's a bit less brain-frying to say the GBs are just a higher version of the Agori/Glatorians, but that's just me. Wouldn't it be funny if the GBs were the Agori equivalent of Turaga?

[JAG18]

I kind of want this to be canon now?? It's a bit less brain-frying to say the GBs are just a higher version of the Agori/Glatorians, but that's just me. Wouldn't it be funny if the GBs were the Agori equivalent of Turaga?

I read through the entire Chat with Greg feed so I've known about Greg's idea that the GBs (in his mind) are native to Spherus Magna and are related to Glatorian, for about week.

At first I was like, "That is amazing, lets canonize this now." But, now I think that the idea of GB's being just super Glatorian, just...I don't know seems kind of like a let down. These are the Great Beings they should stay mysterious and cool, not be delegated to being (as you suggest) a higher version of Agori.

Edited February 23, 2014 by JAG18

[Katuko]

These are the Great Beings they should stay mysterious and cool, no be delegated to being (as you suggest) a higher version of Agori.

What if they were tall, ambiguously described, mysteriously cloaked alien masters of creation, trans-dimensional sight and mind-speech; who could weave marvels of technology so fantastic it was indistinguishable from magic?

...

Compared to their backwater savage precursors who have to fight each other with sticks over metal scraps in a desert?

 

Wouldn't that make them cool?

[JAG18]

 

These are the Great Beings they should stay mysterious and cool, no be delegated to being (as you suggest) a higher version of Agori.

What if they were tall, ambiguously described, mysteriously cloaked alien masters of creation, trans-dimensional sight and mind-speech; who could weave marvels of technology so fantastic it was indistinguishable from magic?

...

Compared to their backwater savage precursors who have to fight each other with sticks over metal scraps in a desert?

 

Wouldn't that make them cool?

 

Well, when you put it like that; yeah actually.

 

Can we canonize that?

[fishers64]

Isn't that already canon?

[Katuko]

That would be the joke, yes.

[fruiteaterz]

when it comes down to it, i'm in despair. to think that great beings are actually great is a joke. if they are just a more advanced version of glatorians or agoris then i no longer consider great beings cool, let alone omnipotent gods in the first place.

[Katuko]

if they are just a more advanced version of glatorians or agoris then i no longer consider great beings cool, let alone omnipotent gods in the first place.

Why? Anything sufficiently advanced compared to something else almost ceases to be comparable to its origin.

 

Imagine a typical horror villain like the vampire, who was once human. Imagine a 500-year old vampire who is immortal, has super-strength, can transform into mist and other creatures, and can dominate people at will with a powerful hypnotic stare. At this point it is so far beyond a human that the only thing we have in common with it is that we share a similar body structure and way of thinking. Vampires are also commonly depicted with shriveled appearances, fangs, glowing eyes, bat-like wings, and so on. It resembles a human in this way, but it is no longer an actual human.

 

A Great Being would be the same way - the only thing it really has in common with its Glatorian origins is a humanoid figure, the ability to think and talk, and likely the ratio of organics to cyborg implants. The Great Beings may still look very different, the same way Tuma looks different from other Skrall and Toa look different from Matoran. Heck, even within Toa there are major differences, such as the Inika's unique transformation giving them glowing faces and lightning powers. The Great Beings have surpassed their brethren to such a degree that they - as mentioned above - can communicate telepathically, gaze into other dimensions, and create just about any powerful artifact they could ever want. They live and breathe the "magic" of the technological setting. Glatorian, whatever... still nothing compared to their "evolved form", the same way Superman (a Kryptonian) or Goku (a Sayian) look like humans but are far from equal to one.

 

The Great Beings made a functional sentient space station with another sentient species of androids acting as its incredibly complex maintenance system. Said space station fixed a planet that had been blown apart just by standing there and pointing its hands upwards. The Great Beings created an artifact which can rip open dimensions and move you between them at will. They created another artifact so great that it can make absolutely anything come alive and move. Furthermore, they have seemingly created a molecule - protodermis - so complex it can take any shape, transform into any other shape, and be further molded into more crazy super-powered artifacts, such as one that manipulates the flow of time.

 

And the Great Beings have seemingly integrated many of these powers in themselves, judging by the cursed Great Being's ability to pull Vezon out of a different dimension and into his chamber - while still being stuck in one spot with no instruments at hand.

 

 

Even if they are "just" more advanced Glatorian, it doesn't make a difference in my eyes. We've always "known" they had a humanoid form, and as the story revealed more of what Mata Nui was and what he's supposed to do it wasn't surprising to learn that the Great Beings lived on the same planet as the Glatorian. And as mentioned - look at the different tribes, and the different species, and how different they can be. Strakk in The Legend Reborn appears to have a somewhat bestial head and not just a helmet, for example. The Great Beings could still show up and look more like Illithid or Turians or whatever than they do the Glatorian we know.

[bonesiii]

when it comes down to it, i'm in despair. to think that great beings are actually great is a joke. if they are just a more advanced version of glatorians or agoris then i no longer consider great beings cool, let alone omnipotent gods in the first place.

Why do you assume that what matters in a story is that certain characters have to be "cool"? Or more specifically, because Matoran (and now Agori) called them "Great" -- why does it automatically follow that a story has some kind of duty for them, when the mystery does get solved, to be as completely "great" as fans imagine, or even as the Matoran themselves imagine?

 

I think it can be much more interesting (and plausible) when the in-story characters who assume some mysterious beings are superduper awesome turn out to have been somewhat incorrect. At least sometimes -- I wouldn't want it to be an absolute story rule either. I enjoy the process of solving mysteries. If you let your assumptions prior to knowing what the mystery really is about drive your emotions, then you're statistically bound to get disappointed. The chances of fans guessing right for any given mystery are almost always slimmer than guessing wrong. So avoid that practice.

 

The discovery of getting closer to the truth is supposed to be enjoyable regardless of what that truth turns out to be, and even the plausibility of it is supposed to even add to it. But if fans allow themselves to place too much emotional importance on their own guesses, then it's inevitable that the solving of mysteries will lead to disappointment, which defeats the whole point.

 

That said, agreed with Katuko that for all intents and purposes, they ARE pretty great!

 

To me the thing that makes them not so great is not that we know more about who they are (what does that really even matter?), but that they have done things of moral questionability. But for the purposes of a story IMO this is only a good thing as having them be "Mary Sues" is not realistic. Similar with Mata Nui making mistakes of his own too. A story is more meaningful when it's more realistic.

[JAG18]

As to why we think their great (which, as Katuko wonderfully points out, they are) is because we all grew up here Vakama's old legends about how the Great Beings were suppose to be the creator of Mata Nui, the gods of the god, if you will.

I completely agree about how, "Blessed are they who expect nothing for they shall never be disappointed." And I also agree that "getting closer to the truth is suppose to be enjoyable," no matter what the truth really is.

 

And you know I've never actually really sat down and questioned the morality of the Great Beings actions. Weird.

 

So yeah, bonesii, you and Katuko are right.

Edited February 23, 2014 by JAG18

[Katuko]

As to why we think their great (which, as Katuko wonderfully points out, they are) is because we all grew up here Vakama's old legends about how the Great Beings were suppose to be the creator of Mata Nui, the gods of the god, if you will.

And they still are, that is the wonderful part of it. Nothing has really changed. They still created the Matoran and the entire Great Spirit robot (two of them, even) from scratch, on planet that was soon to explode. They can also directly affect their creations (Velika even made Tren Krom explode somehow). Even though they didn't do all the work by materializing the metal out of thin air with mind powers, building the MU at all is still an achievement of truly epic proportions; something I doubt any other characters in BIONICLE could hope to achieve at this point. Edited February 23, 2014 by Katuko

[JAG18]

 

As to why we think their great (which, as Katuko wonderfully points out, they are) is because we all grew up here Vakama's old legends about how the Great Beings were suppose to be the creator of Mata Nui, the gods of the god, if you will.

And they still are, that is the wonderful part of it. Nothing has really changed. They still created the Matoran and the entire Great Spirit robot (two of them, even) from scratch, on planet that was soon to explode. They can also directly affect their creations (Velika even made Tren Krom explode somehow). Even though they didn't do all the work by materializing the metal out of thin air with mind powers, building the MU at all is still an achievement of truly epic proportions; something I doubt any other characters in BIONICLE could hope to achieve at this point.

 

Yeah, like I said I completely agree with you, that the Great Beings are still great (and your examples, definitely helped jog my memory); I was just trying to offer a reason as to why everyone has such great expectations of the Great Beings.

[Katuko]

I still envision them like floating a foot off the ground, for some reason.

[fishers64]

I still envision them like floating a foot off the ground, for some reason.

It's completely possible; after all, protodermis has levitation powers and they could incorporate that into foot implants or armor or even just shoes.

[fruiteaterz]

putting aside if great beings can be considered grand or not is of minor importance. the real question is, how many great beings exist altogether across the bionicle universe?

[Katuko]

putting aside if great beings can be considered grand or not is of minor importance. the real question is, how many great beings exist altogether across the bionicle universe?

I imagine it to be a group about the size of 20-30 individuals, but that is purely speculation. It makes sense, though, if the Great Beings are the "elite" of the Glatorian species, that they are not all that many. Something like the Brotherhood of Makuta in size, maybe.

 

Although: We only know of a few lone Great Beings at this point, numbering 5 or 6 in total: Angonce, Heremus, Velika, "Lifer" and the two who hid the Ignika on Voya Nui. The serial Brothers in Arms mention a council chamber of sorts in an alternate reality, six beings is all that is mentioned:

Mazeka expected to be ushered into a vast laboratory. Instead, the room Teridax brought them to looked more like a council chamber. A semi-circular stone dais sat at the far end of the room. The only illumination came from lightstones embedded high in the ceiling, and that was barely enough light to see one’s hand in front of one’s face. He thought he could dimly make out six figures seated at the dais, but then they were gone. Perhaps, like so many things, it had been a trick of shadows and light.

Of course, this was an alternate reality where Toa looked like Matoran and vice-versa, and the Makuta were good rather than evil. It could be that the Great Beings here - who speaks with ancient-sounding whispering voices - is meant to be the opposite of the actual Great Beings of the Core Universe.

 

Journey's End does not mention any specific number of Great Beings either. Although, it does help us pin down the Great Beings as less than 8 feet tall:

Before his eyes, the stone blocks in the center of the fortress seemed to soften and melt together. A square gap about eight feet high appeared at the base of the building. Then the stone became stone again, with a doorway now in place.

Because I doubt they would make a door they themselves would need to crawl through. Edited February 28, 2014 by Katuko