Bzprpg News And Discussion

[shadow pridak money gang]

Dorian's name is inspired by Oscar Wilde.Dorian himself is merely a yearlong experiment in which I want to see how close I can ride a moral line with a single character. I'd compare him more to a couple assassins in various works of fiction than I would Dorian Grey, who's just a good person who goes terrible and stays that way.-Tyler

[Relapse]

He's based off everything awesome everSPEAKING OF AWESOMENESS SUCOGU VS DARK TILL OMG

Edited November 24, 2012 by Relapse

[otter]

I swear, if there's another "Expy Name" debate started in here, Onarax, I'm raging at you.JSYK.:3

[Franco]

Too my knowledge, isn't Dorian inspired by Oscar Wilde and the character in his book, Dorian Gray.That's not to say he isn't original, he's a Type-1 Non-Expy.

I'd say all chars are inspired by something. In fact, I don't think I'd separate chars based on that tier system's dividing line of conscious/unconscious inspiration--the end result is often the same (people seem to like sulov and hiemalis similarly to dor). I've mulled over this a little. Whether or not something is intentionally Expy'd doesn't matter inasmuch as the fact that it is, considering that it's terrible either way; why wouldn't the inverse be true? If I were Kal, I'd combine the latter half of the tier system.But then again, I suppose sorting things out as Kal has does simplify things. And that my opinion is probably biased towards not labelling Sulov as less original than Oreius XPtl;dr: Good job, Grobruv.

[otter]

Well, it's obvious that all characters are inspired by something, that's stated. I'm saying that with Type 1 non-expy, the inspiration is a bit of a bigger factor in making the character than it is in the Type 2 non-expy.It's all about how big a factor it is in making the character, not whether or not it's conscious/unconscious.

[Ghosthands]

NEW CHARACTER CLASSIFICATION SYSTEM GO.TYPE 1 EXPY-COMPLETE CLONE. Barely any change to make it fit. No-go. Nobody likes them, and there's very little opportunity to make Character Development, because you can't-or you don't want to-break them from their original shell. Or, at least, they're half impossible to break out of it. Just steer away from these. E.X. Aukati and Phantoms (At the very beginning. They're much, much better now-might have to say type 1.5, really).TYPE 2 EXPY-STILL RECOGNIZABLE. There are some changes, possibly a major one or two, but they are still very, very easily recognizable as expies for who they were developed off of. They have a better chance to break out from their character shell, to get some character development in, to become something more, but it's better not to risk it. I.E. Liara (AKA Laserbeak.)TYPE 3 EXPY-BASED OFF OF ____, NOT COMPLETELY CLONED. This is a character that, while yes, it is an expy, won't necessarily be quite as recognizable as one. They share many character traits in common with who they are based off of, but they also have traits to them all their own, and they're more like something as a starter, to help you get into the RPG and tell a story, or just a character to have general fun-not a strict clone, stuck to a character mould. These are okay to make. Examples: Hasil s'Nelan Karos-Jareel, Lohkar (don't deny it bro).TYPE 1 NON-EXPY-INSPIRED BY ____. This character isn't really an expy per say, but for the purposes of convenience, we shall include them in this list. A Type 1 is inspired by another character/group of characters, and can be similar, but is really a character all their own, evolving much easier than even a Type 3. Examples: Hiemalis, Gavarm.TYPE 2 NON-EXPY-COMPLETELY ORIGINAL. This is a character you make on your own. Yes, it's obvious that you'll take a bit of inspiration from other sources, that's just natural. But really, they aren't strictly inspired by anything. They're a blank slate, made right and ready for the story, without any possible character moulds to fit or aspire to. EX-Dorian Shaddix, Oreius.IMPORTANT PARTS IN CAPS FOR YOUR EASY READING CONVENIENCE.

<stamps with large seal reading GH APPROVED>

[Franco]

Well, it's obvious that all characters are inspired by something, that's stated. I'm saying that with Type 1 non-expy, the inspiration is a bit of a bigger factor in making the character than it is in the Type 2 non-expy.It's all about how big a factor it is in making the character, not whether or not it's conscious/unconscious.

But the fact of the matter is that characters shift from their intended starting point all the time. If I must be frank, then originally, Hau was pretty darn Expy and probably hit at least a 2-3 on the scale. Yet no one calls him that now. And honestly, I agree with that assessment that he's pretty original at this point.Should we call him a 2? 3? Type 1 or Type 2 non-Expy?I see nothing wrong with your measurement, Kal, but I suppose I shan't use it. I find it a little complex for my classification methods. I'll just be vague and leave little definite. As usual. Edited November 24, 2012 by Norman Efiks

[Ghosthands]

I recommend a system of codes:

• E1
• E2
• E3
• O1
• O2

(O being 'original' or 'non-expy')

[Relapse]

That'd be cool. We could have, like, a panel of judges who rate characters.

[Ghosthands]

That'd be cool. We could have, like, a panel of judges who rate characters.

I nominate me.:3

[EmperorWhenua]

I'm a judge and I think that's an awful idea.

[shadow pridak money gang]

dorian wears v-necks a lothe can be simon cowell-Tyler

[Relapse]

I doubt we'd ever go through with it.

[~Xemnas~]

I'm a judge and I think that's an awful idea.

I agree... rating characters? I dunno about that...

dorian wears v-necks a lothe can be simon cowell-Tyler

i don't see dorian being simon for some reason. Edited November 24, 2012 by Toa Xemnas of Crystal

[shadow pridak money gang]

You're right. Not enough accent.-Tyler

[Wotz]

dorian wears v-necks a lothe can be simon cowell-Tyler

his waistband has to be a maximum of 1cm below the chest

[HahliNuva]

Rating characters could lead to a lot of unnecessary debating/arguing, in my opinion.

[otter]

good lord what have i done

[Relapse]

Yeah, no judges. I'll admit to that being one of my bad ideas.

[Wotz]

What is this I don't even...

[Franco]

Yeah, no judges. I'll admit to that being one of my bad ideas.

But just think of the comedic possibilities:3

[a goose]

Waaaaait a second. What's going on in Ga-Koro?Reichenbach.The Final Problem....Whoever came up with this was reading too much Doyle.

Xa-Koro. And that would be me, the biggest Sherlock Holmes fan in the BZPRPG. Probably. I think. - Vorex

[Relapse]

Kyju is an E3 Sherlock, except evil and otherwise not like him at all. So, y'know, respond. :3

[AlchemistMayCry]

I do kinda like this idea of an expy rating scale, but the big thing is that it's all opinion. One person's expy is another person's original character. If it was blatant expies, like absurdly blatant, down to name, character design, and powers, then there's a reason to calmly step in and suggest reworking the character. But it's still mostly opinion-based, and people looking desperately for things to nitpick. It'd really work best as a set of guidelines than hard rules, since limiting creativity isn't really fun, and it'd help people turn their expies into full-fledged characters. Maybe what we need are character beta testers. People who offer to look at new characters and offer critiques on what can be improved and remove expies before they even start. I'd do it.

[Relapse]

I do kinda like this idea of an expy rating scale, but the big thing is that it's all opinion. One person's expy is another person's original character. If it was blatant expies, like absurdly blatant, down to name, character design, and powers, then there's a reason to calmly step in and suggest reworking the character. But it's still mostly opinion-based, and people looking desperately for things to nitpick. It'd really work best as a set of guidelines than hard rules, since limiting creativity isn't really fun, and it'd help people turn their expies into full-fledged characters. Maybe what we need are character beta testers. People who offer to look at new characters and offer critiques on what can be improved and remove expies before they even start. I'd do it.

To that:Optimus Prime.Optimus. Fricking. Prime.

[AlchemistMayCry]

Sigh...yeah, there's that. It's kinda hard to deal with characters that have already been established and are blatantly expies, down to the name...but we could at least try to take care of any new ones before they happen. Not sure what you could do about the established ones.

[Constructelf]

Well Optimus and co seem to be doing well, workin' hard, makin' money, so are they really that big of a problem?Unlike many other people here, I'm, well, at least half open to expies. So long as they're good and they just rip the character, not the plot, it can be good. Often times they might not take off but I believe that they have as much potential as an original character.Speaking of which, one of my expies, Cosi Mano, along with three of my original characters, Vhisoli Storukru, Pineas Tamar, and Dakan Kojar, have shops open. The HWP needs business.

[Meta-Mind]

Waaaaait a second. What's going on in Ga-Koro?Reichenbach.The Final Problem....Whoever came up with this was reading too much Doyle.

Xa-Koro. And that would be me, the biggest Sherlock Holmes fan in the BZPRPG. Probably. I think. - Vorex

Lemme guess: at the end of this plot, you'll make a character apparently commit suicide to finish off his nemesis. Cut to a few months later (real time), and the character will be revealed to be alive somehow, randomly disguise themselves as an old bookkeeper, and reveal themselves abruptly in their old friend's home.

[Geardirector]

NEW CHARACTER CLASSIFICATION SYSTEM GO.TYPE 1 EXPY-COMPLETE CLONE. Barely any change to make it fit. No-go. Nobody likes them, and there's very little opportunity to make Character Development, because you can't-or you don't want to-break them from their original shell. Or, at least, they're half impossible to break out of it. Just steer away from these. E.X. Aukati and Phantoms (At the very beginning. They're much, much better now-might have to say type 1.5, really).TYPE 2 EXPY-STILL RECOGNIZABLE. There are some changes, possibly a major one or two, but they are still very, very easily recognizable as expies for who they were developed off of. They have a better chance to break out from their character shell, to get some character development in, to become something more, but it's better not to risk it. I.E. Liara (AKA Laserbeak.)TYPE 3 EXPY-BASED OFF OF ____, NOT COMPLETELY CLONED. This is a character that, while yes, it is an expy, won't necessarily be quite as recognizable as one. They share many character traits in common with who they are based off of, but they also have traits to them all their own, and they're more like something as a starter, to help you get into the RPG and tell a story, or just a character to have general fun-not a strict clone, stuck to a character mould. These are okay to make. Examples: Hasil s'Nelan Karos-Jareel, Lohkar (don't deny it bro).TYPE 1 NON-EXPY-INSPIRED BY ____. This character isn't really an expy per say, but for the purposes of convenience, we shall include them in this list. A Type 1 is inspired by another character/group of characters, and can be similar, but is really a character all their own, evolving much easier than even a Type 3. Examples: Hiemalis, Gavarm.TYPE 2 NON-EXPY-COMPLETELY ORIGINAL. This is a character you make on your own. Yes, it's obvious that you'll take a bit of inspiration from other sources, that's just natural. But really, they aren't strictly inspired by anything. They're a blank slate, made right and ready for the story, without any possible character moulds to fit or aspire to. EX-Dorian Shaddix, Oreius.IMPORTANT PARTS IN CAPS FOR YOUR EASY READING CONVENIENCE.

Hmm, sounds very interesting, I wonder how my characters would rate:Ferron: Well, he's my first BZPRPG character, but I kinda just made him up on my own using the "friendly inventor" archetype, primarily characters like Big Al or Gyro Gearloose. So I guess he's a Type 1Non-Expy.Whorok: Really, this guy just came out of nowhere, aside from his looks which is based on how many Toa of Earth are hunchbacks, or at least that's a trait we associate with them. I'm gonna say Type 2 Non-ExpySeriously, though, has anyone else ever made a character with anti-semittic tendencies here?Avalanche: Avalanche is also made up using inspiration from various sources, primarily the "bounty hunter" archetype (Boba Fett, Lobo etc.) so I think that's a Type 1 Non-expyButra: The stereotypical Toa of Plantlife; kind, gentle and polite. Actually painfully polite, probably type 1 non-expyBaranx: Really, this guy just came out of absolutely nowhere, I'm definitely saying type 2 non-expyJust because I like the idea:)

[a goose]

Waaaaait a second. What's going on in Ga-Koro?Reichenbach.The Final Problem....Whoever came up with this was reading too much Doyle.

Xa-Koro. And that would be me, the biggest Sherlock Holmes fan in the BZPRPG. Probably. I think. - Vorex

Lemme guess: at the end of this plot, you'll make a character apparently commit suicide to finish off his nemesis. Cut to a few months later (real time), and the character will be revealed to be alive somehow, randomly disguise themselves as an old bookkeeper, and reveal themselves abruptly in their old friend's home.

See, that almost happened, then V-3 (who controlled Chronn, the Sherlock of the plot) went inactive and ruined everything. - Vorex

[WriterofReapers]

You guys are so mean to always be forgetting that Sal is an expy too.He has rights. And you're stepping all over them with your big smelly anti-expy feet. :cNow go give him a hug.

[Taka Nuvia]

What's up with that need to label and categorize everything, anyway? =/Maybe my opinion on the topic of expies doesn't really count much because I haven't been in the BZPRPG for long but... as long as they don't go overboard and try to introduce other elements from whatever the expy is from, it's all fine, isn't it? I'd rather see a well-written expy than a completely flat, boring and stereotypical original character. But then again, my opinion on other players' characters shouldn't be of that much importance anyway as long as nobody's breaking the rules... ^^

[otter]

Like I mentioned with my skeletal system, there can be good expies.We've just had far, far too much experience with bad ones.

[25K Now!]

You know, I could create a blatant clone of a character from a piece of fiction, and nobody would really care.Because it'd be so ridiculously obscure.

[AlchemistMayCry]

And like I said, Otter's expy classification should be guidelines than hard-and-fast rules that everyone should use to the letter. They're just examples of how to write characters well, not an arbitrary set of rules that everyone should follow. It's a sandbox RPG. There should be freedom to do what you please, but try to keep the guidelines in mind when creating characters so we don't get a flood of expies when new people arrive. And writing non-expies is a good way to learn how to be a better writer. But yes, expies can be well-written.

as long as they don't go overboard and try to introduce other elements from whatever the expy is from, it's all fine, isn't it?

Unfortunately, with expies it's tempting, and could be easy to introduce other elements from the expy's home series. I dunno of any examples that have been done already, but still, the temptation to bring those elements in is always there when expies are done. And then again, the term expy is loaded and any mention of it around characters causes people to instantly look for any possible ways to confirm the expy-ness of the character in question. I'd almost suggest we stop using that term, but that's probably not going to happen.

[Constructelf]

Random topic shift.Can a toa make a slab of their element (assuming it's something solid like stone, iron, etc) underneath their feet and use it to "fly"?Back on topic.

And like I said, Otter's expy classification should be guidelines than hard-and-fast rules that everyone should use to the letter. They're just examples of how to write characters well, not an arbitrary set of rules that everyone should follow. It's a sandbox RPG. There should be freedom to do what you please, but try to keep the guidelines in mind when creating characters so we don't get a flood of expies when new people arrive. And writing non-expies is a good way to learn how to be a better writer.But yes, expies can be well-written.

as long as they don't go overboard and try to introduce other elements from whatever the expy is from, it's all fine, isn't it?

Unfortunately, with expies it's tempting, and could be easy to introduce other elements from the expy's home series. I dunno of any examples that have been done already, but still, the temptation to bring those elements in is always there when expies are done. And then again, the term expy is loaded and any mention of it around characters causes people to instantly look for any possible ways to confirm the expy-ness of the character in question. I'd almost suggest we stop using that term, but that's probably not going to happen.

This.

[Ghosthands]

Lohkar: The expy classification system's more what you'd call...guidelines, than actual rules. Welcome aboard the Infernavika!

[otter]

really peopledon't treat it like a rule systemit's the most skeletal thing everit's the barest of guidelines

[AlchemistMayCry]

Lohkar: The expy classification system's more what you'd call...guidelines, than actual rules. Welcome aboard the Infernavika!

My thoughts exactly Captain!

[Franco]

Better yet...For those of you who don't want guidelines for whatever reason, or just don't wish to use those (like me), realize that 'Expy' is just a word. What really matters is what it represents. Use common sense and apply that. Just because you can't put a label on it, or classify it using guidelines, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. And that it should be avoided due to its tendency towards bad.Yes, there have been characters who were Expy'd and are good. But they typically become more original by the time they are good chars, not less. They have developed into something else. And even then, by definition, an Expy is stale in the sense that it's already been done in the same way. The counterexample of a stereotypical original character is just a kind of Expy of stereotypes. What matters isn't that it can be called Expy, though, it's that it can be defined as one.Define Expy. Keep that definition in mind at all times, not the label. And watch for examples like a hawk.

Edited November 24, 2012 by Norman Efiks