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#29361 Offline Last Son Amakusa

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Posted Sep 24 2012 - 08:37 PM

Another door to mangaia maybe? And did somebody say that no matter how hard people tried, they couldn't get rid of it?
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#29362 Offline Simon the Digger

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Posted Sep 24 2012 - 08:41 PM

THEORY TIEMWhat if the Obelisk is what the Essence stones must be placed in, in order to turn the Chosen into Toa? And the Hive was placed there to keep any new heroes from reaching it? But the ILS took it out?And Hidden Lines, obviously, refers to part of the Prophecy.Discuss.
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#29363 Offline rabbit

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Posted Sep 24 2012 - 08:53 PM

THEORY TIEMWhat if the Obelisk is what the Essence stones must be placed in, in order to turn the Chosen into Toa? And the Hive was placed there to keep any new heroes from reaching it? But the ILS took it out?And Hidden Lines, obviously, refers to part of the Prophecy.Discuss.

You are genius! I support this wholeheartedly.

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#29364 Offline Last Son Amakusa

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Posted Sep 24 2012 - 08:56 PM

But would it work with any old toa stone?Also, about essence stones, do they make the chosen more powerful than any other toa?

Edited by Constructman, Sep 24 2012 - 08:56 PM.

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#29365 Offline Simon the Digger

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Posted Sep 24 2012 - 09:05 PM

Yes. As strong as the First Toa. Stronger than the rest.As for the regular Toa Stones, it doesn't matter. You can't get them.

Edited by Krayzikk Champion of RPGs, Sep 24 2012 - 09:06 PM.

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#29366 Offline EmpressYumiwa

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Posted Sep 24 2012 - 09:09 PM

The Chosen Six would be more powerful than any other toa in the game (save maybe Heuani) but would still not be as powerful as the First Toa.And you might be right about the obelisk, Kray. :P
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#29367 Offline Own Personal Quixote

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Posted Sep 24 2012 - 09:20 PM

THEORY TIEMWhat if the Obelisk is what the Essence stones must be placed in, in order to turn the Chosen into Toa? And the Hive was placed there to keep any new heroes from reaching it? But the ILS took it out?And Hidden Lines, obviously, refers to part of the Prophecy.Discuss.

I was thinking something along these lines since it popped up. The six notches + stolen objects of Makuta's + inscription + prophecy seemed to add up really well for the Ueberstone theory first propagated by Eyru. That just seemed to confirm it to me that the O6 would use it.On the other hand, if the Hive was placed there to keep new heroes from reaching this suva of sorts...Then why did Makuta not put more forces into defending it? H/s/i has used dozens of rahkshi and great control over the elements as well as the power to make heads explode. Yet he purposely placed the turaga there with only twelve rahkshi (half for the turaga to kill) and Heuani alongside the Hive's original force, Heuani even retreating far before the reserves of bugs had run out. I'm pretty sure he even implied things were going all according to plan. There's no reason to do that if this obelisk is really that powerful a tool against him that can be used so easily.Which implies that Makuta wanted the Hive Assault to succeed. And in turn, implies that he has plans for the obelisk that don't bode well for the O6.Note that this is all speculation. I just can't see why he'd give up that powerful a tool so easily.

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#29368 Offline Last Son Amakusa

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Posted Sep 24 2012 - 09:23 PM

Why are the toa mata said to be so powerful in the rpg? In the story they were just 6 regular guys; probably comparable to the Mahri
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#29369 Offline Visaru

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Posted Sep 24 2012 - 09:26 PM

Yeah, but in this RPG they're not.
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#29370 Offline Last Son Amakusa

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Posted Sep 24 2012 - 09:31 PM

So you mean if the terrifying Pyro (now known as Ira) tries to out flamethe reborn Tahu, Tahu would win?I'd imagine the scene as thus (Ira would sustain some sort of throat injury so that he can only say MPPHTahu: Die servant of Makuta!!!Ira: MPPPPH!!! FU FILL FIE FUFAY!!!Tahu: Ya!!!Ira: MPHHH!!!*The two toa, wielding identical swords, lock blades. They stare into each other's eyes, neither backing down. Then Ira pulls the "Armegeddon" (An attack taunt from TF2). I don't know how it would proceed from there
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#29371 Offline Onarax

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Posted Sep 24 2012 - 09:34 PM

Toa Mata vs. Generic Toa.Mata wins by a wide margin.
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#29372 Offline EmpressYumiwa

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Posted Sep 24 2012 - 09:35 PM

The Makuta knows the second great prophesy already. It's happening, stanza by stanza, and there is little he can do to change that. Even by killing Takua and a Chosen One he fulfilled another part of it, so there is no point in putting off the inevitable. There would be little point in guarding the obelisk more than before if it would be found anyway. One idea that does make sense, though, is that by setting up the hive over the obelisk he effectively has an alarm system without losing more powerful tools at his disposal. The discovery of the obelisk after the hive assault serves as a way to warn the Makuta that the second great prophesy is coming about.It's an alarm system, not a security system.
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#29373 Offline Last Son Amakusa

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Posted Sep 24 2012 - 09:35 PM

Why? Is it that they have a bigger power battery? Or is it that they have better control?
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#29374 Offline Palm

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Posted Sep 24 2012 - 09:39 PM

Because it just is.We don't need a physical explanation as to why it is that way.Or if you really DO need an answer; magic.
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#29375 Offline Onarax

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Posted Sep 24 2012 - 09:43 PM

Magic and Destiny!
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#29376 Offline Last Son Amakusa

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Posted Sep 24 2012 - 10:07 PM

Still don't make sense
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#29377 Offline Yolanda Squarble Fried #1

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Posted Sep 24 2012 - 10:11 PM

Why are the toa mata said to be so powerful in the rpg? In the story they were just 6 regular guys; probably comparable to the Mahri

Were the Mata ever really "regular"? They were born as Toa, and often referred to as spirits of their elements. Being the sole back-up plan should Mata Nui fail, I always assumed they were more powerful than your average Toa.Anyways, it doesn't really need to be explained. Maybe it will be explained eventually, but for now, all we can do is enjoy the story.

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#29378 Online Infamous Ironic Iguana

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Posted Sep 24 2012 - 10:16 PM

Also, all toa Mata are issued with grade a plot armor.
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#29379 Offline Emzee

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Posted Sep 24 2012 - 10:21 PM

Remember that the BZPRPG doesn't strictly follow the canon. While it might be possible that legends of the First Toa may be a little embellished (we don't know for sure), we can be certain that they were (or are) more powerful than any other Toa character that's allowable in this game. That's really the key word in all of this - allowable. Even if there were to be Toa in this world who are more powerful (it's possible), it wouldn't matter because you wouldn't be allowed to play them anyway.That's why there isn't much of a point in strictly defining it - just like Toa stones. They're out of reach anyway, so why bother analyzing them?

Edited by Emzee, Sep 24 2012 - 10:23 PM.

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#29380 Offline DoctorCouch

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Posted Sep 24 2012 - 10:23 PM

Still don't make sense

This is Bionicle. Does it need to make sense?


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#29381 Offline Palm

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Posted Sep 24 2012 - 10:33 PM

Also when Star Wars was big, nobody was all "Hey guys! How does the force even work?".Granted, they DID explain it later, but nobody cared at the time.Just sit back an enjoy it.
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#29382 Offline Nuju Metru

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Posted Sep 24 2012 - 11:38 PM

It isn't so much that the First Toa were created to be ridiculously more powerful than other Toa - yes, I can confirm that by the standards of the average PC, they absolutely were; the closest power comparison existing IC today is Heuani vs. a regular Toa - but more that all the Toa that Mata Nui has let come into existence since the downfall of the first ones have essentially been shoddy knock-offs. The First Toa were the real deal. This is, at its core, a quality over quantity equation: the more Toa exist on the island of Mata Nui, the less remarkable they all end up. From a canonical standpoint, it'd make vastly more sense if almost everyone on the island was a Matoran, so that the few Toa in existence would stand out more; but since people tend to choose Toa characters over Matoran characters, that dynamic doesn't develop. Besides, if this game was crawling with hundreds of Mata-level Toa, all of whom had enough raw elemental power to team up with just five others and almost be able to overthrow Makuta, this story would be over rather quickly and uninterestingly.
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#29383 Offline JL Zehvor

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Posted Sep 25 2012 - 12:49 AM

So everyone is weaker - they'd seem strong compared to each other, but compared to the Mata they'd be weaker.Coolio.And, maybe Makuta does win, but the Prophecy hasn't ended and continues in 2013.
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#29384 Offline Yolanda Squarble Fried #1

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Posted Sep 25 2012 - 12:56 AM

I was thinking something along these lines since it popped up. The six notches + stolen objects of Makuta's + inscription + prophecy seemed to add up really well for the Ueberstone theory first propagated by Eyru. That just seemed to confirm it to me that the O6 would use it.

Heyyy, that's right- I did write up that huge theory, didn't I? And I turned out to be right! :D Forgot about that...

And, maybe Makuta does win, but the Prophecy hasn't ended and continues in 2013.

Exactly. With Nuju as GM, there's no telling how everything will end up. Expect the unexpected.

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#29385 Online Axilus Prime

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Posted Sep 25 2012 - 01:04 AM

Well, I did not know the Mata were double the level I imagined the Nuva at in this game...XDOh well, it does explain why the ILS doesn't just storm the underground and tear Makuta limb from limb, let his antidermis dissipate, and eat his armor for dinner--with some ketchup, of course.Anyway, Assassins Guild IC advert. Yeah. So there's that. Anyone can show up now. Really. Because three chars and two players is not a guild.
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#29386 Offline JL Zehvor

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Posted Sep 25 2012 - 03:31 AM

Same; Personally, I'd have expected all PC's to be at Toa Mahri/Inika level, depending on experience. But, I guess like Canon story, the power of a Toa is truly, inconsistent (Toa Nuva, strongest of the universe, chosen 6 of Mata Nui, looses to a bunch of Skakdi with no teamwork while Toa Inika consistently maintain a balance of power against Skakdi despite having near no experience and evidently less elemental power and control)
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#29387 Offline Onarax

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Posted Sep 25 2012 - 04:20 AM

Same; Personally, I'd have expected all PC's to be at Toa Mahri/Inika level, depending on experience. But, I guess like Canon story, the power of a Toa is truly, inconsistent (Toa Nuva, strongest of the universe, chosen 6 of Mata Nui, looses to a bunch of Skakdi with no teamwork while Toa Inika consistently maintain a balance of power against Skakdi despite having near no experience and evidently less elemental power and control)

Raw power is not everything. The Inika had preparation and the element ... of surprise ... because they didn't have a seventh element due to Takanuva getting stuck at the magical gate thing.Anyway, back on topic. Let's ignore power levels because they get annoying over time, and back to other plot things. Like Mark Bearers.

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#29388 Offline Smaug the Terrible

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Posted Sep 25 2012 - 04:56 AM

It isn't so much that the First Toa were created to be ridiculously more powerful than other Toa - yes, I can confirm that by the standards of the average PC, they absolutely were; the closest power comparison existing IC today is Heuani vs. a regular Toa - but more that all the Toa that Mata Nui has let come into existence since the downfall of the first ones have essentially been shoddy knock-offs. The First Toa were the real deal. This is, at its core, a quality over quantity equation: the more Toa exist on the island of Mata Nui, the less remarkable they all end up. From a canonical standpoint, it'd make vastly more sense if almost everyone on the island was a Matoran, so that the few Toa in existence would stand out more; but since people tend to choose Toa characters over Matoran characters, that dynamic doesn't develop. Besides, if this game was crawling with hundreds of Mata-level Toa, all of whom had enough raw elemental power to team up with just five others and almost be able to overthrow Makuta, this story would be over rather quickly and uninterestingly.

It's basically like in the Incredibles: When everybody is special, nobody is. It's one of the difficulties in any RPG, wether it's this, DnD or something else. The DM has to even the playing field for all of us, while at the same time we expect to have our epic moments and epic fights, since we all want our characters to show that they are good at what they do. That's why every Toa within 20 miles rears their head when Nuju mentiones Rahkshi are present somewhere.If you really want these Feanor-like moments though, where your character single-handedly can hold his or her own against a group of Rahkshi, I suggest to come with your own plot. Just look at the mark-bearers. Or the Aitua I made, and the shadow-beings stalking them.

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#29389 Offline The Otter

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Posted Sep 25 2012 - 07:47 AM

You know, I feel like providing my own explanation here: With the Toa, and how when there's more of them, they're basically overall weaker, it's similar to the Dark Side in the Star Wars Universe, as noticed by Darth Bane: The Dark Side of the Force is meant to be seized by only a few powerful individuals, and then shared, sparingly, with their servants, not have everybody be equal and have hordes of Dark Side Force users, like with the Brotherhood of Darkness.
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#29390 Offline Onarax

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Posted Sep 25 2012 - 08:00 AM

Which was why in the Old Republic days, the Sith were mooks, and in the Republic days, two of them took down the Jedi Order and took over the galaxy.
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#29391 Offline JL Zehvor

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Posted Sep 25 2012 - 08:52 AM

I guess its this "Toa Power Juice" that Mata Nui is now sparingly using on Toa.And, well, Normal Toa and Toa Mata, I guess you could compare that to a group of privates (Who have guns and training, and as such as obviously way stronger than normal people) to the people who go on black ops missions (Obviously the privates won't survive. And I realize that this sounds a bit wrong.....)However, whats to stop every single good Toa from marching into Makuta's Lair and killing him? Why does it need these special 6? As far as I know, the 6 are just more powerful, but I feel like an army of Toa can still defeat the Toa Mata.
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#29392 Offline Simon the Digger

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Posted Sep 25 2012 - 08:59 AM

I guess its this "Toa Power Juice" that Mata Nui is now sparingly using on Toa.And, well, Normal Toa and Toa Mata, I guess you could compare that to a group of privates (Who have guns and training, and as such as obviously way stronger than normal people) to the people who go on black ops missions (Obviously the privates won't survive. And I realize that this sounds a bit wrong.....)However, whats to stop every single good Toa from marching into Makuta's Lair and killing him? Why does it need these special 6? As far as I know, the 6 are just more powerful, but I feel like an army of Toa can still defeat the Toa Mata.

Because you can't gather enough Toa. If you gathered every PC Toa ever in the game, maybe you could make it to Makuta's lair. Maybe even put up a good fight against the Master of Shadows. But you'd still probably lose. Heuani, one of his best servants, can take on more than an entire PC Toa Team himself. Each Rahkshi could take at least three, and Makuta has a nearly unlimited supply of them. Plus other horros we don't know about. Not to mention, a lot of these Toa and other PCs are on Makuta's side.One of the Six is comparable to Heuani. And, they have Prophecy power on their side. They stand a chance. Everyone else would just be cannon fodder.

Edited by Krayzikk Champion of RPGs, Sep 25 2012 - 09:00 AM.

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#29393 Online Princess Anna of Arendelle

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Posted Sep 25 2012 - 09:03 AM

All this really means is...regular Toa will have to make do with fighting Rahskhi, other evil Toa and various other beings, pirates, ninjas, and probably space marines. Leaving Makuta for the six. Have fun with that :)
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#29394 Offline DoctorCouch

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Posted Sep 25 2012 - 09:15 AM

And I'm assuming that on the other side, the six would be able to take down most evil PCs like bowling pins.


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#29395 Offline Simon the Digger

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Posted Sep 25 2012 - 09:25 AM

Not necessarily. Echelon, Echelon would be tough even for the Six. However, many of the evil PCs would rop like flies, yes.But on the subject of power levels, when people talk about the power of each character or species, it often amuses me. Because there is no "Most Powerful Species". One of the Six, with a clever enough player, could be beaten. By a Toa. Maybe even by a Matoran. Because, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what powers a character has. What matters is how well you use them. For instance;A fight I personally took part in. A one on one duel between a Vortixx and a Matoran. The Vortixx is faster, stronger, and literally immune to pain. But the Matoran won.In fact, I have even thought of a way a Matoran might be able to beat a Rahkshi. The trick to fights is playing to your character's strength. If you control a knife fighter, and your opponent a sword user, get in close. They can't fight effectively that way, and you are in your element, so to speak. If your're a sword user, don't let your enemy get close. Powers and abilities are useless unless you use them well.
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#29396 Offline Katuko

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Posted Sep 25 2012 - 10:06 AM

One of the Six is comparable to Heuani. And, they have Prophecy power on their side. They stand a chance. Everyone else would just be cannon fodder.

And that's why I won't even try to be part of the "main plot" unless it gets explicitly dropped in my lap.

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#29397 Offline Alex Turner

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Posted Sep 25 2012 - 10:32 AM

In fact, I have even thought of a way a Matoran might be able to beat a Rahkshi. The trick to fights is playing to your character's strength. If you control a knife fighter, and your opponent a sword user, get in close. They can't fight effectively that way, and you are in your element, so to speak. If your're a sword user, don't let your enemy get close.

And if you talk a lot, shout at your enemy. Maybe stick a Madu fruit to their belly or something.Oh wait :P

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#29398 Offline Last Son Amakusa

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Posted Sep 25 2012 - 02:30 PM

Well, I think that the only reason that these big guys are so much more powerful is the fact that there is some sort of "stupidity field" around them that decreases the IQ of their foes to like 60. Take for example Heuani decapitating my hunter. A real hunter probably wouldn't behave like that, would they?Also, there is one thing that all of these big shots are vulnerable to: SNIPERS (yeah, I know, the weakest TF2 class). It's simply: If your skakdi or vortixx has a rifle, go hide in a bush or in the forest, wait until your target comes long, and then BOOM, HEADSHOT. It doesn't even need to be a gun; a toa could do the same job too with their elemental powers.
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#29399 Offline Smaug the Terrible

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Posted Sep 25 2012 - 02:47 PM

Uhm, no Constructman, we've had people successfully hold their own. Hiemalis has held his own against Heuani, while another character (sorry, I can not remember the name right now) has faced off against a few Rahkshi alone as well.The most times I saw Heuani lay waste to people was when they went for a straight shot, trying to rush or overpower him with brute-force approaches. Not surprisingly, if you run at the lieutenant of Makuta like a madman wildly swinging a sword, you're not going to get far.And of course, randomly joining in on events you wouldn't be able to notice happening with in-game logic gets characters killed too.If you play really well, have characters act smart and plan, you're gonna see results.
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#29400 Offline BenLuke

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Posted Sep 25 2012 - 02:49 PM

(yeah, I know, the weakest TF2 class).

. . .I'm assuming "TF2" stands for something other then Team Fortress 2, in this context.Also, sorry for my lack of posting yesterday. will get writing now.

Edited by BenLuke-116, Sep 25 2012 - 02:55 PM.

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