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The Matoran Civil War and Racism in Metru-Nui

matoran civil war racism metru nui matoran toa metru

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#1 Offline Mampt

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Posted Feb 20 2014 - 03:00 PM

I was on the Matoran Civil War page on BS01, and I noticed something about the sides.  Po-Metru, Le-Metru, and Ko-Metru aligned together, while Ta-Metru, Onu-Metru, and Ga-Metru formed the other alliance.  Going forward another 80,000 years or so, the Toa Metru emerge.  From the outset, Onewa and Matau strongly disliked Vakama, while Nokama strongly favored him.  Whenua leaned slightly towards Vakama, while Nuju leaned slightly away from him.  This is exactly how the Matoran Civil War turned out, and this points to island-wide racism between the Metru, because these disagreements between the Toa started as soon as they met, which points to them being predisposed to these opinions.  Thoughts on this?  Other instances of this sort?


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#2 Offline JAG18

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Posted Feb 20 2014 - 03:08 PM

Hmm...I wasn't around much in 2004 so I can't verify that all that drama happened among the Toa Metru, but I see no reason to doubt that it did.

 

Anyway, I think you might just over-thinking this, since the '04 storyline was written about four years before we had any hard facts about the "War".

 

Of course, I have sometimes wondered, how much effect the "War" had on both later Metru Nui and by extension Mata Nui, like whether any

prejudices (like the ones you seem to be suggesting) evolved among the Matoran.

 

Interesting.


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#3 Offline Angel Bob

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Posted Feb 20 2014 - 05:32 PM

I do think you're on to something very interesting. I find it likely that GregF assigned the alignments of each Metru based on the Toa Metru's rivalries (whether intentionally or subconsciously). However, he probably didn't put too much thought into it, and almost certainly didn't bother to look at it from a "historical" viewpoint. That's the job of the fans. :P

 

It is a really intriguing theory, though. If I were ever to write a fic taking place on Metru Nui, I would definitely play up some tensions along those lines. After all, without going into too much politics, a civil war can have a very divisive and polarizing effect on a civilization, even generations after the fact. ;)

 

@ JAG18: I don't think civil-war tensions would have had any effect on Mata Nui society. The Matoran had their memories completely wiped, and the Turaga had come to respect each other and function as a team. There's no reason in Karzahni they'd have arbitrarily spread prejudice and dislike of the other koros among the Matoran.


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#4 Offline Fabulous Sunshine

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Posted Feb 20 2014 - 05:33 PM

Meta-perspective - it was the other way around. Greg probably based the factions of the Civil War off the way everyone acted to Vakama.

 

Besides, you can't really say that it was "racism". More of the fact that the Metru were pretty much loners and passive-aggressive maniacs who barely managed to band together and save the world.


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#5 Offline JAG18

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Posted Feb 20 2014 - 05:51 PM

@Angel Bob: forgot about the Mind Wipe for a second there so I guess your right.

 

 

Meta-perspective - it was the other way around. Greg probably based the factions of the Civil War off the way everyone acted to Vakama.

 

Besides, you can't really say that it was "racism". More of the fact that the Metru were pretty much loners and passive-aggressive maniacs who barely managed to band together and save the world.

 

I think that pretty much hits the nail on the head.  (The first part, not the second one, although that could work too.)


Edited by JAG18, Feb 21 2014 - 11:45 AM.

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#6 Offline Fabulous Sunshine

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Posted Feb 20 2014 - 06:58 PM

No the Metru were definitely a group of weirdos.


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#7 Offline Baron Von Nebula

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Posted Feb 20 2014 - 07:00 PM

It isn't necessarily that the Metru bore prejudices because of the war.  Each element tends to go along with certain personality traits, and each Metru has its own traits as well.  Some of these go together better than others.  A prime example would be Ko- and Onu- Metrus.  They did not get along because each saw the future/past as more important.  This definitely affected Nuju and Whenua's initial disagreements, and it probably factored into why Ko- and Onu- Metru took different sides during the war.


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#8 Offline LordofBionicles

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Posted Feb 20 2014 - 09:26 PM

I agree with the fact that the Toa Metru's personalities were designed before the BIONICLE team thought of the Civil War, but then, what if the alliances on the war were based on their personalities? Kind of the same theory just turned the other way around.


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#9 Offline Mampt

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Posted Feb 20 2014 - 09:30 PM

I was pretty sure that the Matoran Civil War didn't exist at that point in real life, but I came up with this theory for an in-universe reason for the disagreement.


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#10 Offline Nicotheory

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Posted Feb 20 2014 - 10:15 PM

I think we all know that the concept of the civil war came after the Metru-nui saga was written in real life.

However, for the sake of it, this theory is VERY likely for the in-universe timeline, in which the war happened around 80 000 years before

the matoran saga.

 

So, If someone would re-write the Bionicle saga in chronological order, I think the civil war could very well explain why the Toa Metru, as soon as

they met, had some kind of conflictual relations. After all, just think about how Onewa was rough to Vakama on the very first time he met him.

 

Anyway, considering what the Toa Metru did and how they were when they became Turaga, I think it's more likely to say that the metru had 

prejudices toward each other and got over it by learning to work as a team, beyond the whole ethenic issue, than saying they were simply a bunch of weirdos.


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#11 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Feb 21 2014 - 07:58 AM

I have to agree with those who are saying it's more likely that there was already some kind of underlying disagreement and this led to both the war and to their later differences, not that the war caused those differences. Think about it -- you don't just go to war on a whim and then later think of being angry (or whatever) at the other side, although it certainly may deepen such divides.

 

Now since this is obviously something my retelling had to deal with (at least since I chose to assume these characters were even alive at the time -- which I don't know that we know), I'm going to do something I haven't yet done and use spoiler tags. Don't read if you don't want to know yet how my story handles it (just the basic idea though, there's still plenty I'm not spoiling). :)

 

Spoiler

 

Some other things to keep in mind. Your characterization of who was for/against who sounds good at first glance, but there are some problems with it. The two primary enemies of the war were Ta and Po, yet Onewa and Vakama spent a lot of time working together when the Toa paired off (keeping their eyes on Nuhrii and Ahkmou). Onewa's distrust of Vakama probably had a lot more to do with his apparently being a little nuts when he had his visions, and it was often more of friendly teasing than actual antagonism. In the Visorak Saga, Vakama seemed to equally snap at Nokama, supposedly his closest ally, as any of the others (prior to capture by the Vissies). Le was versus Ta and Ga, yet it was Matau who was able to convince Vakama to return from the "dark side", and he "had a crush on" (officially wanted to be close friends with) Nokama.


Edited by bonesiii, Feb 21 2014 - 08:00 AM.

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#12 Offline SarracenianKaijin

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Posted Feb 21 2014 - 08:16 AM

This is such a brilliant and subtle idea I doubt GregF had anything to do with it.


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#13 Offline Angel Bob

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Posted Feb 21 2014 - 10:40 AM

@Angel Bob: forgot about the Time Wipe for a second there so I guess your right.

 

You're forgetting more than the Time Slip. In the Time Slip, MU inhabitants only lost the memories of what occurred during that time. But the Matoran of Metru Nui had all of their memories completely wiped when they were placed in the Matoran Spheres by Makuta. When on the island of Mata Nui, no Matoran had any memory or knowledge of Metru Nui, and so the old factions lingering from the Matoran Civil War would have had no effect on their lives.

 

Also, SarracenianKaijin speaks the truth. XD


Edited by Angel Bob, Feb 21 2014 - 10:40 AM.

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#14 Offline JAG18

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Posted Feb 21 2014 - 11:50 AM

 

@Angel Bob: forgot about the Time Wipe for a second there so I guess your right.

 

You're forgetting more than the Time Slip. In the Time Slip, MU inhabitants only lost the memories of what occurred during that time. But the Matoran of Metru Nui had all of their memories completely wiped when they were placed in the Matoran Spheres by Makuta. When on the island of Mata Nui, no Matoran had any memory or knowledge of Metru Nui, and so the old factions lingering from the Matoran Civil War would have had no effect on their lives.

Sorry, my brain kind of come up with a cross between the Time Slip and the Mind Wipe, but yeah, you're right.

 

I guess I really should run by BS01 more often before posting here.


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#15 Offline Artakha's Nephew

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Posted Feb 21 2014 - 01:55 PM

In real life, it was almost certainly the other way around, as Fabulous Sunshine says. In universe, though, the rivalries between the Toa Metru could certainly have been influenced by the Matoran Civil War. We can be almost certain that Vakama, Whenua, Matua, Nuju, Nokama, and Whenua all fought in or at least participated in the war, unless one or more of them were traveling or living away from Metru Nui at the time. However, there's no mention anywhere in the canon that any of the soon-to-be Toa Metru ever lived away from Metru Nui as Matoran.
 
It's also good to remember that arguing and disliking one another is by no means unique to the Toa Metru, as the Toa Mata/Toa Nuva were seen arguing amongst themselves constantly on Mata Nui. Vakama and Tahu had very different personalities (ditto for Onewa and Pohatu), but the arguing and taking sides remained and occasionally even the alliances seemed similar, yet none of the Toa Mata/Toa Nua had ever been Matoran, nor had any of them lived on Metru Nui before Takanuva rediscovered it.

EDIT: I just remembered that new Matoran were able to come into being while in Metru Nui, which puts my argument that Vakama, Whenua, Matau, Nuju, Nokama, and Whenua were all in Metru Nui during the civil war period in serious jeopardy. It's possible that none of them were yet alive, or only some of them were. If they were, though, I'd be surprised if such a close similarity is a coincidence, especially considering how ould disagreements and rivalries tend to stick with humans for years, even decades in the context of entire nations. Eighty thousand years wouldn't seem as long for a Matoran as it would for us, because they live for so much longer.


Edited by Artakha's Nephew, Feb 28 2014 - 12:09 AM.

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#16 Offline Master Inika

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Posted Feb 25 2014 - 07:56 PM

Some other things to keep in mind. Your characterization of who was for/against who sounds good at first glance, but there are some problems with it. The two primary enemies of the war were Ta and Po, yet Onewa and Vakama spent a lot of time working together when the Toa paired off (keeping their eyes on Nuhrii and Ahkmou). Onewa's distrust of Vakama probably had a lot more to do with his apparently being a little nuts when he had his visions, and it was often more of friendly teasing than actual antagonism. In the Visorak Saga, Vakama seemed to equally snap at Nokama, supposedly his closest ally, as any of the others (prior to capture by the Vissies). Le was versus Ta and Ga, yet it was Matau who was able to convince Vakama to return from the "dark side", and he "had a crush on" (officially wanted to be close friends with) Nokama.

I don't think Onewa's comments were "friendly teasing," Onewa seemed to actually hate Vakama. Matau was the more friendly one to Vakama. Plus, during the Great Rescue, racial prejudices probably faded away when the Toa realized that all six of them were saving all the Matoran and couldn't afford to be biased toward their own kind.

 

As for the theory, I support it.


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#17 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Feb 25 2014 - 08:40 PM

I don't think Onewa's comments were "friendly teasing," Onewa seemed to actually hate Vakama.

Interesting take. I'd say it's definitely a major stretch to say he literally hated him. Matoran (and Toa... especially Matoran destined to be Toa) are generally good guys; while Ahkmou might perhaps stoop to hate, it's unlikely for the others. Even there, Ahkmou was somewhat forced along by the Dark Hunters in what he did. Anyways, I did say "often" -- I don't mean that there wasn't sometimes a very serious note to Onewa's comments. (But note that often they were somewhat legitimate concerns, or they could have appeared so to him.)

 

Is there anything in particular you interpret as hateful? Nothing's coming to mind offhand... Besides, like I said, they actually worked together a bit more closely than the others, unlikely if your interpretation were correct.

 

As for friendly teasing... friendly might be a bit of a stretch at first, but for lack of a better word.


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#18 Offline Sir Kohran

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Posted Feb 25 2014 - 09:05 PM

 

I don't think Onewa's comments were "friendly teasing," Onewa seemed to actually hate Vakama.

Interesting take. I'd say it's definitely a major stretch to say he literally hated him. Matoran (and Toa... especially Matoran destined to be Toa) are generally good guys; while Ahkmou might perhaps stoop to hate, it's unlikely for the others. Even there, Ahkmou was somewhat forced along by the Dark Hunters in what he did. Anyways, I did say "often" -- I don't mean that there wasn't sometimes a very serious note to Onewa's comments. (But note that often they were somewhat legitimate concerns, or they could have appeared so to him.)

 

Is there anything in particular you interpret as hateful? Nothing's coming to mind offhand... Besides, like I said, they actually worked together a bit more closely than the others, unlikely if your interpretation were correct.

 

As for friendly teasing... friendly might be a bit of a stretch at first, but for lack of a better word.

 

 

Just within the second movie, Onewa's very first words to (and about) Vakama are "some stranger than others" with a mean nudge, then he dismisses Vakama's vision as (roughly) "smelting cooking his head", and after the search for the Great Discs is agreed, he snaps "I'm doing this for Lhikan, no-one else" the last part of which sounds like a refusal to show any loyalty to Vakama.

 

It's worth noting that Vakama isn't the only one he's unpleasant to; he later brands Nuju and Whenua "a Ko-Matoran big brain and an Onu-Matoran stockboy", sniggers and jeers at them whilst they try the tasks Lhikan sets, and stereotypes Ko-Matoran as incapable of practical work. It's only when he congratulates Whenua for breaking through to the island's surface that he seems to be 'redeemed'.


Edited by Sir Kohran, Feb 25 2014 - 09:11 PM.

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#19 Offline Master Inika

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Posted Feb 25 2014 - 10:31 PM

 

 

I don't think Onewa's comments were "friendly teasing," Onewa seemed to actually hate Vakama.

Interesting take. I'd say it's definitely a major stretch to say he literally hated him. Matoran (and Toa... especially Matoran destined to be Toa) are generally good guys; while Ahkmou might perhaps stoop to hate, it's unlikely for the others. Even there, Ahkmou was somewhat forced along by the Dark Hunters in what he did. Anyways, I did say "often" -- I don't mean that there wasn't sometimes a very serious note to Onewa's comments. (But note that often they were somewhat legitimate concerns, or they could have appeared so to him.)

 

Is there anything in particular you interpret as hateful? Nothing's coming to mind offhand... Besides, like I said, they actually worked together a bit more closely than the others, unlikely if your interpretation were correct.

 

As for friendly teasing... friendly might be a bit of a stretch at first, but for lack of a better word.

 

 

Just within the second movie, Onewa's very first words to (and about) Vakama are "some stranger than others" with a mean nudge, then he dismisses Vakama's vision as (roughly) "smelting cooking his head", and after the search for the Great Discs is agreed, he snaps "I'm doing this for Lhikan, no-one else" the last part of which sounds like a refusal to show any loyalty to Vakama.

 

It's worth noting that Vakama isn't the only one he's unpleasant to; he later brands Nuju and Whenua "a Ko-Matoran big brain and an Onu-Matoran stockboy", sniggers and jeers at them whilst they try the tasks Lhikan sets, and stereotypes Ko-Matoran as incapable of practical work. It's only when he congratulates Whenua for breaking through to the island's surface that he seems to be 'redeemed'.

 

Indeed, I was thinking mostly of the movie. It's mostly his delivery more than the words themselves that make him seem like kind of a bully. He does seem to criticize anyone he's around, but it's mostly toward Vakama. Keep in mind that the Civil War started between the Po- and Ta-Matoran.

 

In finding the Great Disks, Vakama paired with Onewa because he chose to set the teams based on the Great Disk codes (619 and 429, 339 and 159, and 279 and 589). In Trial by Fire, he acknowledges in his narration that it was a bad idea. He and Onewa get the job done mostly because, it seems, they were too busy dealing with Nuhrii and Ahkmou to get too angry at each other.


Edited by Master Inika, Feb 25 2014 - 10:32 PM.

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#20 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Feb 25 2014 - 11:17 PM

He does seem to criticize anyone he's around, but it's mostly toward Vakama. Keep in mind that the Civil War started between the Po- and Ta-Matoran.

Vakama was also the only one who started dancing around wildly and dodging invisible disks right away after they were being Toa-ized. It seems clear his reaction to him as team leader has a lot more to do with that. There's clearly some "racial" connotations to it though (I haven't mentioned it yet, but I'm not sure this is the right term for it... but I know what those using it here mean by it so whatever). I'm just not sure the premise that the war worsened such feelings in these specific characters is more reasonable than the opposite if anything.

 

In Trial by Fire, he acknowledges in his narration that it was a bad idea. He and Onewa get the job done mostly because, it seems, they were too busy dealing with Nuhrii and Ahkmou to get too angry at each other.

This seems more like the opposite of a prejudice, but an actual personality clash that he only starts to really notice due to experience working with Onewa. Prejudice usually works the other way around -- they start out trying hard not to work together but if circumstances force them to, they find out they can get along after all. (Of course, you could argue they were both trying to get over it and found out neither was ready... but I don't think anything so serious was what LEGO meant to portray. Most of their issues were more about feeling thrust into the role of Toa unexpectedly.)

 

And speaking of Nuhrii and Ahkmou, each matching-element Toa seems to be more angry at the Matoran of their own element than each other.

 

I'm not saying inter-element strain isn't part of this, though. A lot depends on what in fact these particular characters' roles were in the war, whether they supported it or opposed it, etc. and we just don't know. I get the strong impression that all Matoran honestly believe in equality, and their negative attitudes toward those of different elements is more about tending to have different personalities that they acknowledge means they won't tend to get along quite as well, rather than actually feeding a philosophy of genuine inferiority or hate. Very different things (and a strong case can be made that nobody who falls for the latter will really be a good guy so probably couldn't be a Toa, etc.).


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#21 Offline fishers64

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Posted Feb 26 2014 - 12:35 AM

You all forget that in Trial by Fire Vakama saves Onewa's life (or tries to) twice. Once when Onewa is falling off the sculpture, Vakama does a warm updraft to slow his fall, and when the two nearly end up fried in the protodermis reclamation yard, Vakama absorbs the heat into himself to save both of them. 

 

Of course, you could argue that the second thing was saving Vakama's own life too, but if he was really prejudiced he wouldn't have done that; he would have kicked Onewa into the flames and engaged that rocket pack of his and flown away. 

 

As for Onewa's snide comments, that's just Onewa. He was established in every appearance to be sarcastic and insulting. Notice also that he doesn't badmouth all Ta-Matoran, which would indicate a stereotype, but Vakama specifically. He seems to take the "if it can't be seen, touched, and hit with a hammer, then it doesn't exist" philosophy, (I think that was an actual quote) as opposed to Vakama's belief in visions and legends. It's personal.  


Edited by fishers64, Feb 26 2014 - 12:36 AM.

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#22 Offline Master Inika

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Posted Feb 26 2014 - 02:55 PM

The "hit it with a hammer" line is from Onewa, speaking generally of all Po-Matoran carvers.

 

If there is prejudice, it's probably mostly subconscious. It's hard to say anything for sure with so little details of the war.


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#23 Offline Octodad

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Posted Feb 27 2014 - 06:54 PM

The two primary enemies of the war were Ta and Po, yet Onewa and Vakama spent a lot of time working together when the Toa paired off (keeping their eyes on Nuhrii and Ahkmou).

 
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the specific instance you're referring to was because they "drew disks" to decide who works with who. In fact, neither seemed very happy with the arrangement.
 
Now, this could just be the fact that all the Toa Metru were... standoffish, shall we say. However I do like a little social insight in my sci fi, so to have a theory like this is quite intriguing.
 
Spoiler

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#24 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Feb 27 2014 - 09:26 PM

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#25 Offline Master Inika

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Posted Feb 27 2014 - 10:26 PM

Spoiler

Edited by bonesiii, Feb 28 2014 - 12:24 AM.
Can we stick with the spoiler tags for this, please? I know it isn't strictly in S&T rules, but I only mentioned what I did say because I could put it in the spoiler tags. I hope you guys don't mind me editing the tags in here. :) -bones

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#26 Offline JAG18

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Posted Feb 27 2014 - 10:33 PM

Spoiler


Edited by bonesiii, Feb 28 2014 - 12:23 AM.

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#27 Offline fishers64

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Posted Feb 27 2014 - 10:59 PM

Spoiler


Edited by bonesiii, Feb 28 2014 - 12:22 AM.

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#28 Offline Artakha's Nephew

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Posted Feb 28 2014 - 12:08 AM

 

Spoiler


Edited by bonesiii, Feb 28 2014 - 12:25 AM.

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I can also be found on Xonar's Bionicle fansite solismagna.com, as well as the Biomedia Project and BS01. I'm under the username Artakha's Nephew on Solis Magna and BS01 on, and MB99 on the Biomedia Project. Check out Solis Magna, as it is exactly what we need to maintain interest in Bionicle. Also, I highly recommend the hand-drawn comic Diaries of Destral, by Stroxx.
 
Check out a sneak preview of Mysterious Island, an adaption/reboot of the 2001 Bionicle story which I am writing. It's also a musical.|http://www.bzpower.c...terious-island/

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#29 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Feb 28 2014 - 12:18 AM

And now you know why I normally just say "I have something on this in my retelling I can't yet say" instead of giving even a bit of the spoilers -- because then you guys just keep asking what the rest of the spoilers are to figure out if it makes sense, and pretty soon there's nothing left of the story. :P Why don't we just wait for when I post those chapters and the readers can judge for themselves if they like it? In any event, I already finished writing it long before this theory was suggested, so I didn't have the benefit of considering this idea anyways, and it's too late to change the entire direction of that part of my story, as it had a lasting effect on the protagonist etc.

 

Again, yall can prefer a different interpretation of their role in the civil war if you like -- we have absolutely no clear official evidence either way, so treating one as definitely better than another isn't warranted.

 

I can say that none of the points raised so far are relevant to how I portrayed it. :) But I can't explain why not yet without giving it away. There were several canon mistakes made in some of your posts and things you didn't consider that would have been unavoidably factors, but again, if I correct those errors in reasoning here you'll know the larger spoilers.

 

Oh well. I'll just hope somebody else catches them and points them out, but I shall neither confirm nor deny if those are the ones I mean. :P

 

Edit: Also, I took the liberty of putting spoiler tags in the posts that repeated what I had said in spoiler tags. However, obviously it's not a rule that they have to be used as it's just my silly little fanfic, and if someone objects to me doing that, please feel free to remove it. I just hoped to save time instead of having to PM you all asking you if you would please edit them in, etc. Awkward. :P


Edited by bonesiii, Feb 28 2014 - 12:28 AM.

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#30 Offline Octodad

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Posted Feb 28 2014 - 09:37 AM

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#31 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Feb 28 2014 - 11:31 AM

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#32 Offline fishers64

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Posted Feb 28 2014 - 01:19 PM

[strange brain digression]

And now you know why I normally just say "I have something on this in my retelling I can't yet say" instead of giving even a bit of the spoilers -- because then you guys just keep asking what the rest of the spoilers are to figure out if it makes sense, and pretty soon there's nothing left of the story. :P Why don't we just wait for when I post those chapters and the readers can judge for themselves if they like it? In any event, I already finished writing it long before this theory was suggested, so I didn't have the benefit of considering this idea anyways, and it's too late to change the entire direction of that part of my story, as it had a lasting effect on the protagonist etc.


At this point, I could say of the S&T forum "Here we dissect, question, criticize, refer to, and otherwise discuss every detail related to the Bionicle universe's lore and story." :P Throw any tidbit of information to this place and it's a feeding, theorizing, and discussing frenzy. It also forms a mind-set of its own over time, up to the point where anything, regardless of what it is, is automatically evaluated before we realize the human aspect of it and try to be courteous to the authors of said story.
 
But I suspect you already knew that. 
 

Edit: Also, I took the liberty of putting spoiler tags in the posts that repeated what I had said in spoiler tags. However, obviously it's not a rule that they have to be used as it's just my silly little fanfic, and if someone objects to me doing that, please feel free to remove it. I just hoped to save time instead of having to PM you all asking you if you would please edit them in, etc. Awkward. :P

At this point, I'm starting to feel that the entire discussion is "down the drain" in a way. For some reason, the whole spoiler thing (the content inside the spoilers, NOT the note over the tags) feels like a huge distraction which has gotten us, to a degree, off-topic. Bugs me. I apologize for not using spoiler tags in my post, as I understand the need for courtesy, but still... :(
 
In any case, I'm trying to evaluate this whole thing in terms of the actual official story as opposed to the possible integrity of a fanfic (a different story), and my brain is seizing up. 
 
I could say a lot more here, but I'll some it up by saying that I try to understand both viewpoints - both the theorist and the writer - but I've never tried to write a retelling of all Bionicle history, so I've never really had this problem and don't know what it's like. (If I was going to write a retelling of all Bionicle history, though, I wouldn't say that I was going to write one until I actually showed up with it! :P Totally different mindset.)

 

[/digression]
 
Anyway...getting back on topic...
 

Spoiler


Edited by fishers64, Feb 28 2014 - 01:45 PM.

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#33 Offline Master Inika

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Posted Feb 28 2014 - 01:28 PM

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Spoiler


Edited by Master Inika, Feb 28 2014 - 01:29 PM.

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#34 Offline Angel Bob

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Posted Feb 28 2014 - 02:26 PM

[strange brain digression]

And now you know why I normally just say "I have something on this in my retelling I can't yet say" instead of giving even a bit of the spoilers -- because then you guys just keep asking what the rest of the spoilers are to figure out if it makes sense, and pretty soon there's nothing left of the story. :P Why don't we just wait for when I post those chapters and the readers can judge for themselves if they like it? In any event, I already finished writing it long before this theory was suggested, so I didn't have the benefit of considering this idea anyways, and it's too late to change the entire direction of that part of my story, as it had a lasting effect on the protagonist etc.


At this point, I could say of the S&T forum "Here we dissect, question, criticize, refer to, and otherwise discuss every detail related to the Bionicle universe's lore and story." :P Throw any tidbit of information to this place and it's a feeding, theorizing, and discussing frenzy. It also forms a mind-set of its own over time, up to the point where anything, regardless of what it is, is automatically evaluated before we realize the human aspect of it and try to be courteous to the authors of said story.
 
But I suspect you already knew that. 
 

Edit: Also, I took the liberty of putting spoiler tags in the posts that repeated what I had said in spoiler tags. However, obviously it's not a rule that they have to be used as it's just my silly little fanfic, and if someone objects to me doing that, please feel free to remove it. I just hoped to save time instead of having to PM you all asking you if you would please edit them in, etc. Awkward. :P

At this point, I'm starting to feel that the entire discussion is "down the drain" in a way. For some reason, the whole spoiler thing (the content inside the spoilers, NOT the note over the tags) feels like a huge distraction which has gotten us, to a degree, off-topic. Bugs me. I apologize for not using spoiler tags in my post, as I understand the need for courtesy, but still... :(
 
In any case, I'm trying to evaluate this whole thing in terms of the actual official story as opposed to the possible integrity of a fanfic (a different story), and my brain is seizing up. 
 
I could say a lot more here, but I'll some it up by saying that I try to understand both viewpoints - both the theorist and the writer - but I've never tried to write a retelling of all Bionicle history, so I've never really had this problem and don't know what it's like. (If I was going to write a retelling of all Bionicle history, though, I wouldn't say that I was going to write one until I actually showed up with it! :P Totally different mindset.)

 

[/digression]
 
Anyway...getting back on topic...
 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler


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#35 Offline fishers64

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Posted Feb 28 2014 - 03:58 PM

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#36 Offline JAG18

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Posted Feb 28 2014 - 04:22 PM

Spoiler

Edited by JAG18, Feb 28 2014 - 04:28 PM.

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The board game, Star Wars: Epic Duels, is awesome and your life will be better after having played it.  

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#37 Offline Silverglass

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Posted Feb 28 2014 - 04:31 PM

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Erm, to the supposed racism issue: I honestly think it was a coincidence that the Toa Metru had little rivalries or whatever that mirrored that of the Matoran Civil War (or vice vera). As Angel Bob said, wether or not it was done intentionally, the story peeps probably didn't put much thought into it. If there is something to it, it's most likely just a simple personality thing. It's probably easier for the Ta-Matoran to warm up to Ga-Matoran because the latter is more patient with them; the down-to-earth Onu-Matoran are probably the second most likely to get along with Ta-Matoran, as they seem more forgiving; and honestly, Onu- and Ga-Matoran are probably the most compatible out of all six. What puzzles me is the other alliance, because I really can't find any reason why they'd get along (with Le/Ko being the most amusing alliance, IMO). *shrug* 


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#38 Offline fishers64

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Posted Feb 28 2014 - 04:59 PM

Spoiler


Edited by fishers64, Feb 28 2014 - 05:03 PM.

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#39 Offline PyroLizard Prime

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Posted Feb 28 2014 - 05:31 PM

If the matoran were truly self aware and thought like humans, there was bound to be at least some racism between metrus.

 

Same reason racism still exists in the real world.


Edited by PyroLizard Prime, Feb 28 2014 - 05:33 PM.

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#40 Offline JAG18

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Posted Feb 28 2014 - 05:35 PM

I don't know, maybe there is some Nationalism, but not racism considering that their all the same race: Matoran.  


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