Jump to content

  • Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In   
  • Create Account

Welcome to BZPower!

Hi there, while we hope you enjoy browsing through the site, there's a lot more you can do if you register. The process is easy and you can use your Google, Facebook, or Twitter account to make it even faster. Some perks of joining include:
  • Create your own topics, participate in existing discussions, and vote in polls
  • Show off your creations, stories, art, music, and movies and play member and staff-run games
  • Enter contests to win free LEGO sets and other prizes, and vote to decide the winners
  • Participate in raffles, including exclusive raffles for new members, and win free LEGO sets
  • Send private messages to other members
  • Organize with other members to attend or send your MOCs to LEGO fan events all over the world
  • Much, much more!
Enjoy your visit!

Photo

Review Topic -- The Destiny of Bionicle

retelling

  • Please log in to reply
187 replies to this topic

#41 Offline bonesiii

bonesiii
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Forum Leaders
  • Perpetual Master of Reference

  • 14-March 03
  • 19,411 posts
  •   BZP Leader

Posted Apr 16 2014 - 09:34 AM

Author's Comments for Chapter 8: Presumed Dead

Note ["would one day soon host the battle"]:

The timing of this battle is likely not canonically accurate, but since no exact date has been given I'm calling artistic license so I could feature it. Most likely it would have been much later. Also some of the context I'm giving here is my idea. Only the long-lasting end result of the battle is actually known.

Note [to image of maze being built]:

The shape of the maze has two major portrayals. The first was a circle with the tower in the center, but this was never, so far as I know, shown with anything but a greatly enlarged Skrall shield LEGO piece, with the tower being nothing but a giant technic pin piece. That exact form is obviously non-canon; the 'maze' would take only a few minutes to solve, but the circular shape may well be the most canon.

This image is a later version showing it only as a line down the middle of the valley. I've used this because it does show detail of the maze interior, but my story avoids mentioning the actual shape, and in places implies it may actually be circular. Probably some combination of the two is the case; a circular portion around the tower itself but more maze extending either way through the valley.

Note ["I had been building construction robots to replace my own job"]:

The Baterra are canon; these other robots are not.

Note:

[Final] Baterra image by Vrahno, used with permission.




Replies to reviews:

Tat -- EP Entity image is from here:

http://biosector01.c...zed_Protodermis
 
See a clarification here, though:
 
http://biosector01.c...todermis#Trivia


TL -- Matoran heads are portrayed as about the same width, or more, as the thickness of the torso, yes. But more importantly, he needs that mask to stay conscious (and considering that situation, likely alive), and it's the only one in existence. Somewhat brittle mask versus solid, rough-textured rock -- not a good idea to just hope it holds together as you scrape through, right? Better safe...
 
Jag -- Yeah, with 90 chapters that's to be expected. Anywho, glad you liked it anyways though. :P


NT -- This story goes with the theory that the heart is in charge of distributing energy throughout the body, which has been mentioned in S&T before, and that energy is obtained through eating (as well as breathing) -- the eating power. As was discussed in several S&T topics including a recent one, the canon hasn't given us an explanation of the heart's purpose. Greg has said he likes to think of it as merely a lubricant pump (and thus very indirectly an indicator of life as once you die the pump shuts down as does all else), but he's never treated this as a canon for-sure answer, and frankly me no likey. :P A much later chapter will get into more detail about this story's version of how it works. :)

A comment to this effect really should be added, though, glad you brought it up. I think there may be one with the later chapter but one should be added alongside this methinks...

As for how he knows it, by that time he's had at least centuries (I'm leaving undefined exactly how much time) to study his own design, as obviously he was curious in the opening about how his body works, and realized that understanding such things could prove important. But it could be good to add a brief mention in his thoughts or narration about how he found out. :)

Edited by bonesiii, Apr 16 2014 - 09:39 AM.

  • 2

#42 Offline Iron_Man5

Iron_Man5
  • Members
  • Makuta Conquered!

  • 26-February 14
  • 563 posts

Posted Apr 16 2014 - 10:14 AM

Wow, it's amazing so far. :D

 

I love how you used the battle that created the Forest of Blades that Tubduk found on his adventure.  :br:  Everything is coming together quite nicely, and you even added the non-altered Vorox. :D

 

And I totally knew what would happen once our hero picked up his weapons that he left behind, that was very well written. Ohhh those sneaky Baterra... 

Can't wait til next week for the next chapter.  :happydance:


  • 0

"I am Iron Man"

:i:  :a: :m:  :i: :r: :m_o: :n:  :m: :a: :n:

 

bannerbzp_by_tattorack-d7ht9tk.jpg

signature art by Tattorak


#43 Offline TLhikan

TLhikan
  • Members
  • Descending into Protodermis

  • 24-March 07
  • 1,012 posts
  •  

Posted Apr 16 2014 - 01:28 PM

This is cool; I was wondering how our hero will manage to be there for most of the history of Bionicle while remaining anonymous.

 

And the tactic of using shapeshifting to store things is always cool (brings up the question though: Could he use his power to create things?).

 

-TLhikan


  • 0

"So I'm TL now?"
"Yeah, 'cuz if we said it the other way it'd have to be TLhiKHAAN!!"


#44 Offline fishers64

fishers64
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Members
  • Rahkshi Unleashed

  • 05-July 10
  • 6,000 posts
  •  

Posted Apr 16 2014 - 05:43 PM

Chapter 6-7: Not really much to say here. I found the Vorox thing to be sad, and wished that I had gotten to know Voskoa a bit more. I also liked the creepy appearance of the EP Entity/tunnel collapse thing in 7. 
 
Chapter 8:

I was later able to surface from the cave system near the border and spy on the Ice Agori, listening in to their gossip as they mobilized for war.
 
I had been presumed dead in the collapse. Though no body was found, the battery had been knocked half into the pool, and that half destroyed. It was logical to conclude, since I had supposedly been closer, that I was destroyed as well.

 
I would have liked this scene to have been shown instead of told, but I suppose that would have interrupted the narrative flow too much. It makes me wonder why our memoirist tends to gloss over this, although if you had to navigate a cave system by only your heartlight and then find out that you were supposedly dead, it probably wouldn't be your finest memory. 
 
Also, why does this area link to a cave system? If what this Matoran is in is a shaft through which the EP came and diverted into, wouldn't gravity or following the cave knock him back into the space where the EP was? 
 
13904150193_2ca5685ce2.jpg

 
That would be more logical on the fluid pressure thing, and you mentioned meandering. The other thing that strikes me as weird is that the fluid would force its way up that way, and then drain out back to the junction, and then go the other way.

 

Theory: The excidian (which was native to the ice tribe region and later mined) caused the meandering. :shrugs:
 
I liked the battle thing between the "Bone Hunter" and Koronga, and also the shapeshifting thing. Interesting that he sees himself as chronicler now - once trying to stop history had burned him badly, so I guess he's smarter now. Still, it seems that he might run out of the shapeshifting orbs eventually and/or use them sparingly. :shrugs:


Edited by fishers64, Apr 16 2014 - 05:51 PM.

  • 2

16028406952_a8c31f0bfe.jpg15838451978_fa70afcd66_m.jpg


#45 Offline ALVIS

ALVIS
  • Members
  • Flying Force!

  • 10-January 09
  • 2,411 posts
  •  

Posted Apr 17 2014 - 06:34 PM

Clever, giving Koronga the shapeshifting device. I was wondering how in the world your narrator would be able to observe so many events in the history of BIONICLE without influencing them -- now I know, I guess. Also, very clever work with the baterra. A new reader would be honestly scared. Heck, even I'm slightly worried for Koronga; he's smart, but is he intuitive enough to connect the dots and drop the sword?

 

One nitpick: did you write in any original female characters? You've had many opportunities to include them: the Agori elder in Chapter 2, Voskoa, the Bone Hunter or the Rock Steed, heck, even the Element Lord of Sand could have been female. (Who cares if Greg confirmed they were all male -- I don't remember -- but you've shown that you're willing to take small liberties with the canon, and we've never even seen the Sand Lord in official story.) It's starting to get to me how every character, except the unholy abomination that is Annona, is male. I know you've stated it's "unrealistic for Koronga to meet an even number of males and females in his life", but it's far more unrealistic for him to meet an overwhelming majority of males. This is seriously bugging me. Seriously. This just breaks all suspension of disbelief.

 

(I'm going to go through and count up the ratio of males to females to better prove my point. It will, no doubt, cause me great frustration, but because I'm an insufferable forumite, I'm going to do it anyway. Be back soon with the numbers.)

 

On the plus side, though, Koronga's really starting to grow on me. I wonder, did you intentionally base him on Takua, back in the good old days when he was the nameless Chronicler of Mata Nui? Because I'm seeing some serious parallels. Koronga is at just the right level of development (or lack thereof) to be relatable to almost everyone.

 

EDIT: I'm back, with the numbers. Looking through Chapters 1-8, I took note of every character (named or otherwise) encountered and described -- I didn't count groups -- and here are my findings.

 

So far, your cast of characters has a 17:1 male-to-female ratio. That makes 77.3% of them. (The missing 22.7% comes from four characters whose gender wasn't specified: the Great Being announcer, the jungle Vorox leader, energized protodermis, and the slain Jungle Glatorian. This is me being generous, especially considering that the jungle Vorox leader's portrait looked like it was intended to be male, and energized protodermis presumably doesn't have a gender.)

 

So... yeah. Step up your game, man. Would it really hurt you to change a few "he"s to "she"s in later chapters? :P


Edited by Angel Bob, Apr 18 2014 - 01:59 PM.

  • 0
"You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant."
 
-- Harlan Ellison
 
Short Stories:
 
LAST DESTINY, starring an Agori and a Turaga
 
DESCENDANT, starring Kraata-Kal and Makuta Teridax
AN EVEN EXCHANGE, starring the Makuta of Stelt
THE END OF THE BROTHERHOOD, starring Tobduk and Makuta Chirox

#46 Offline JAG18

JAG18
  • Members
  • Aquatic Guardian

  • 20-February 14
  • 378 posts

Posted Apr 20 2014 - 06:59 PM

Pretty good chapter, bones.  I liked the cliffhanger, the battle with the Bone Hunter, and the part involving The Forest of Blades.  I'm also pretty interested in seeing how Koronga will use shape-shifting as the story goes on.  

 

Finally, you wrote that the Core War lasted ten years; I'm a little interested in knowing how you come up with that number. 


Edited by JAG18, Apr 20 2014 - 06:59 PM.

  • 1

#47 Offline bonesiii

bonesiii
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Forum Leaders
  • Perpetual Master of Reference

  • 14-March 03
  • 19,411 posts
  •   BZP Leader

Posted Apr 23 2014 - 04:09 PM

Author's Comments for Chapter 9: A Dark Discovery

Note [Scarabax image]:

As far as I know, it's not confirmed that the mechanical legs of this image's interpretation of the beetle are canon, and if so, it isn't confirmed how they got them, but the theory stated here is probably right. And we don't know that Baterra shapeshifting can change size, but if not, it could be explained as an idea Baterra weren't programmed to think of, that Koronga did. Other Bionicle shapeshifting powers include the ability to be smaller than your normal size, but usually not larger.

The problem Koronga has here of the metal parts being easier to spot could have been solved by having him take the pre-modification form of the beetles, but I do not know if any were left unmodified, and in any case it may have seemed suspicious to the Baterra as they would presumably be rare. If you're curious, here is an image of that form:

http://biosector01.c...abax_Beetle.PNG

Note:

It's canon that they [the Great Beings] obtained a sample [of energized protodermis] and studied it. The bit about multiple vials is my invention, but it would make sense. Their main conclusion was the result of an experiment trying to tap into its power as Koronga had (non-canonically) been ordered to try in Chapter 7; see Chapter 10 for what happens when that is done.

Note [to whole section starting with "It was another map"]:

The exact locations of some of these places are unknown, so I have not included a picture showing this actual map, but if you're curious, I did make a sketch showing the major locations relevant to Part One of my story. It does have spoilers so you might wish to wait to see it until Chapter 10; I'll link to it again in a comment there, but the only thing it spoils is the big event that happens in Chapter 10 that's well known in the canon, that the entire plot revolves around.

http://i153.photobuc...TDoB-PART-1.jpg

Note [Agori image]:

This is another non-canon character. Art by me.

Note [image of wormlike creature]:

This image and the description of the Mountain Worm are both canon but as far as I know, the image has not been officially designated as picturing that creature. It is not stated so, at least, on biosector01 as far as I found.





Replies to reviews:

Iron Man -- Thanks for those details. And yeah, turns out I got to mention those Vorox twice, heh. A great example of the benefit of getting reviews. BZP is awesome. :P


TL -- Great question -- as separate objects, no, he cannot create things. However, while shapeshifting his own body or something he's touching, he can make either have forms that appear like different objects. Only temporarily, though, and if he lets go of an object it will immediately return to normal form.


fishers -- Yeah, I wondered on proofreading if I should have expanded that part. I might, but ran out of time. Thanks for the vote for an edit. :P

I sort of meant for it to be ambiguous -- did the Entity just dissolve open a hole to a pre-existing cave system not connected to the EP spring, or did the EP first go that way to carve it out, and then retreat and seal it off, perhaps by an earlier, underground cavein? Koronga appears to assume it is the latter, but it may be a bit of both or all the former. I haven't really decided, but I did intend this area to have a lot of caves, as that would help explain why the EP is surfacing here in the first place. It also depends on whether the Entity could have had that much control at the time, which is not really clear in the canon. Certainly it did by the time the Toa Metru encountered it, but that was much later. That ambiguity is part of why I had it not speak in this case.

That idea about exsidian is reasonable. I wouldn't pin that down either way, though.


AB -- I agree the imbalance is jarring, but you seem to be making much ado about nothing as far as my input goes. In addition to the Agori in this chapter, the established, clearly non-canon characters so far have been Koronga, the hunter, the sheriff, the deputy, and the desert Vorox family leader. That's 1/6 female, 1/7 if you count the Rock Steed. I know you didn't know of the one in this chapter, but that just goes to show why patience and not making hasty generalizations are important. The other characters featured so far are either canon, or could be canon (like "Kabrua", or the GB announcer which might be Angonce, or the Bone Hunter). Plus Annona plays the most important role yet besides Koronga, and I stated directly the ratio (outside the MU) is 50/50 in Chapter 5.

Anyways, glad you like the shapeshifting part. And yes, he is somewhat inspired by Takua, good catch. :) The original idea for a retelling was to have Takua as the main protagonist so I could get as close to one POV as possible, as I may have mentioned somewhere before, since he was the oldest. The idea went nowhere as long as that was the thinking, though, because he still wouldn't really come close to one POV, and if I opened it up to multiple POVs it could get way too complex very fast. So, I kicked around the idea of developing a non-canon character who would have some key similarities to him, like love of travel and tendency to walk obliviously into danger, etc. and eventually came up with Koronga.


Jag -- No no, the ten years only refers to one short trip, from getting the Rock Steed to the maze (but I guess edit needed, so thanks for bringing it up :)). You took it the opposite of the way I intended it; if even with a Steed, his being forced to stay hidden turns a fairly short-distance journey into ten years (compared with three and five previously over even longer distances), then you're free to imagine the time between the war's start and his crossing the Frost and the Great Jungle (on foot) might be much, much longer. And the end hasn't been shown anyways yet.

So, the war could be anything from several decades to several centuries, depending on how much he had to change directions to remain in hiding.

  • 2

#48 Offline ALVIS

ALVIS
  • Members
  • Flying Force!

  • 10-January 09
  • 2,411 posts
  •  

Posted Apr 23 2014 - 09:20 PM

Hmmm, fair point. I still think some of the maybe-canon characters could have been specified as female -- since is it really important to entertain the possibility that Koronga stole his Rock Steed from Fero? -- but at least you're making an effort. I really would rather the ratio be higher than 1/6, though. We had that for the better part of a decade in the actual canon already. :P

 

Takua would have been a good choice thematically, especially given his status as one of the most special and unique characters in the BIONICLE universe, but obviously you would have run into logical problems (the mind wipes, his isolation from major events, etc.), so I get that. Koronga works well enough as a substitute. Besides, it's hard to imagine Takua stealing a baterra shapeshifting device and having misadventures all over Spherus Magna. XD


  • 2
"You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant."
 
-- Harlan Ellison
 
Short Stories:
 
LAST DESTINY, starring an Agori and a Turaga
 
DESCENDANT, starring Kraata-Kal and Makuta Teridax
AN EVEN EXCHANGE, starring the Makuta of Stelt
THE END OF THE BROTHERHOOD, starring Tobduk and Makuta Chirox

#49 Offline TLhikan

TLhikan
  • Members
  • Descending into Protodermis

  • 24-March 07
  • 1,012 posts
  •  

Posted Apr 24 2014 - 02:05 PM

It's always fascinating to read your take on shapeshifting characters. It's fairly evident in the Paracosmos series as well. I don't know a lot of writesr who ahve your level of creativity in just how versatile complete shapeshifting would be.

 

-TLhikan


  • 0

"So I'm TL now?"
"Yeah, 'cuz if we said it the other way it'd have to be TLhiKHAAN!!"


#50 Online Teclax Master of Tech

Teclax Master of Tech
  • Members
  • Steely Visionary

  • 15-April 14
  • 358 posts

Posted Apr 24 2014 - 02:27 PM

This is great. I'm not sure how good this would be in introducing Bionicle to a new reader, but its a great epic nonetheless. I particularly like the way Karonga uses shapeshifting.


  • 2

 Kopaka, the coolest(Pun intended) Ko-Toa ever:

 Comic_Blizzard_Blade_In_Use.png                                              


#51 Offline JAG18

JAG18
  • Members
  • Aquatic Guardian

  • 20-February 14
  • 378 posts

Posted Apr 24 2014 - 03:21 PM

On your reply:

Oh!  That makes sense.  Huh, I feel like I should have gotten that from reading it the first time, but hey at least it made you think up another edit.  So, it all worked out in the end.   :P

 

On Chapter 9:

Good chapter, bones, Koronga's use of shape-shifting, is both amazing and very creative, so you get extra points for that.


  • 1

#52 Offline NuvaTube

NuvaTube
  • Members
  • Toa

  • 05-March 13
  • 132 posts
  •  

Posted Apr 24 2014 - 06:15 PM

Yay female character! Sorry to go on about it, but the way you mention that she's female makes her stand out, like "male" is the norm and so "female" is a deviation that must be specified. Maybe just say it was an Agori and go straight to calling her "she", without specifying gender, like you do with the male characters? Jus' a little something.

Liked the imaginative use of shapeshifting ^_^

Something that's bothered me is the crazy mix of technology. Firstly, information transfers. If the GBs can give everyone cybernetic enhancements, then I'd have thought they'd very able to manage an internet, GPS and faster modes of transport (considering they can do teleportation in the MU, although I get that may have only been possible with Protodermis). I mean, fine, the fact that that technology isn't widespread could be used to show political imbalance, decadence and how bad the GBs are at ruling and distributing wealth, etc etc. But, my point is that if the GBs really wanted to, they could make things happen. So, sure maybe the average Agori wouldn't have a hope in Karz to get a continental aircraft journey, or the luxury of sending an email to someone on the other side of the planet in no time (heck, even a telegram would be better than what they have) but if it were a matter that concerned the GBs, like getting the word about the Element Lords around, surely they could have got the news around really quickly, or if they wanted personal visits from messengers, they could have transported them there fairly quickly, even with SM's massive distances.

And I know you're keeping to the canon by having swords and more medieval technology and weaponry in common use still, but I'm amazed at how few even fairly advanced projectile weapons there are. Sure, you mention them here and there, but I would have thought important military personnel wouldn't make a serious assault with arrows and swords. The way you mention Elementally charged weapons making ranged combat much more serious is worrying, but based on canon I guess.

 

If you imagine their society as mildly dystopian and full of rampant inequality like I do (with loads of amazing tech around, but reserved for a privileged few, and the majority obviously having some influence from this tech, but still practically living in slums compared to the GBs (think District 9, Elysium, Hunger Games, mood) then whilst more primitive weaponry is still around a lot, any armed groups first priority is to get the cheapest but best weapons they can. In any slum there are always arms dealers, which though generally no where near on par to a proper military can still give them a hard time.

 

You only have to look at human history to see how much it pays to have a repeating ranged weapon. I reckon the amount of times someone having even a modern assault rifle instead of a sword would have led to a much more efficient turn of events in Bionicle (and I'm guessing this Retelling) must be colossal.

 

Still, likin' it Bones! :D


Edited by NuvaTube, Apr 25 2014 - 04:41 AM.

  • 2

#53 Offline TLhikan

TLhikan
  • Members
  • Descending into Protodermis

  • 24-March 07
  • 1,012 posts
  •  

Posted Apr 25 2014 - 11:57 AM

Regarding the tech thing, part of the spirit of Bionicle is schizio tech. If we recall, Jaller was surprised by the concept of wheels :P. We had sentient clockwork brained-Vahki in Metru Nui, but non-protodermic flight was just taking off (and heck, we don't know what the moto-sled was powered by), 

 

I think it's canon that mechanical implants aren't cybernetics; they're no computer chips or the like like we would know them, but there is GB-tech that allows them to be used as a person's natural arm/leg/joint/respiratory system/etc. So, their information technology may be nothing like what we use. 

When it comes to weapons, this is a bit more of a obvious "flaw", but really, it's one that comes from Lego's desire to steer away from showing "real" guns (which seems to have been thrown out the window lately  ;) ), and it would just wouldn't fit the flavor for Bionicle characters to be spraying each other with machine guns. In the EM, maybe.

 

If that doesn't really make sense, hey, chalk it up Bionicle physics not being the same as ours  :D .

 

-TLhikan


  • 1

"So I'm TL now?"
"Yeah, 'cuz if we said it the other way it'd have to be TLhiKHAAN!!"


#54 Offline bonesiii

bonesiii
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Forum Leaders
  • Perpetual Master of Reference

  • 14-March 03
  • 19,411 posts
  •   BZP Leader

Posted Apr 30 2014 - 03:16 PM

Author's Comments for Chapter 10: The Shattering of the Old

Well, various things have come up that are slowing down my progress on the end. I still think though that I won't stop (trying to) post weekly, though. There's so many chapters between this point and where I'm at in writing, after all. However, posting weekly is becoming more difficult. And some lower priority art might not get done in time (for example, I haven't yet had time to draw the huge, non-canon ship mentioned in this chapter; I was planning to do for the next chapter, but it's looking like it won't be possible). I dunno. So... we'll see. Nevertheless, I have gotten a bit more written over the past few days on Part Nine.

Note ["Our minds were based on a system of dual elemental light and shadow. The light represented mental pathways of construction, and the shadow of demolition."]:

The purpose stated here for the inner light and shadow is only a theory. What we know is that they don't refer exactly to good versus evil; a being with all shadow is evil, but a being with all inner light is also unable to do some good things. The balance appears to essentially grant them a kind of freewill.

Note:

What we know about the underground lab is the elemental caverns and their purpose, and the pedestal with the diagram of the giant robot, but only the content of one side of the pedestal is known. This tablet about the Wish Gate is non-canon, but possible.

Note [Spirit's Wish Gate sketch]:

Image is non-canon art by me. It is canon that the arch is ornately carved, and that it has the label "Spirit's Wish" on it. This would be written in Agori, however, and no canon Agori Alphabet was ever established. I have made a non-canon version here:

http://www.bzpower.c...showtopic=12115

The text in this image reads "Desidri Matas", from the Latin for wish, desiderium (much of Agori is inspired by Latin canonically), and "Mata" -- confirmed to mean "Spirit" in Matoran (it's also confirmed that the Matoran language is based on Agori; I added the s to sound more Latin-ish). This translates to "Wish (of) Spirit", due to the modifier-second rule in Bionicle languages. Just to be clear, this theoretical translation is strictly non-canon.

Also note, there is some disagreement as would be expected, as to whether this is the sort of alphabet that would commonly be used for Agori. It could be seen as a prototype version of Matoran lettering, or as a golden-age style; both interpretations perhaps being inventions of the Great Beings. Since making it, I noticed symbols in a canon image that aren't Matoran and may be meant to be Agori lettering; the lettering in the image would be non-canon, but could be adopted into a fan-based alphabet. At this time no progress toward that has been made, however. This sketch's alphabet part could also be erased and another alphabet and/or interpretation of the phrase could be inserted. Consider it just one possibility.

Note:

Koronga's named Rock Steed, Pirihonga, is non-canon.

Note [to three paragraphs starting with "Tall mechanical skyscrapers"]:

We don't know exactly how repairs are done to the majority of the inside of the robot, only that the biomechanical bipeds like the Matoran do not know what kind of a world they're in; the sky illusions and islands and so forth make them think they just live in a normal world, albeit with strange walls at the boundaries of the domes. We know there are many automated skyscrapers, and maintenance work on these gets some kind of process going that repairs the rest of the robot, but we don't know exactly how that happens. This theory is based on another function of the giant that also uses robots to perform an important task.

Note ["I grew wings and flew upward"]:

It's thought that for most technologies and creatures, flight above a certain altitude is difficult due to icing problems that occur, but I didn't want to interrupt the narrative flow here. It's known that such flight is possible as it has been done at least once. Presume that he is shapeshifting himself by various means to overcome these problems.

Note [to image just before paragraph with "brilliantly shining fountains"]:

This image is actually of the Reformation of Spherus Magna, near the end of the storyline, rather than the Shattering, but suffices.

Note:

As promised earlier, here again is the link to the Pre-Shattering map of Spherus Magna:

http://i153.photobuc...TDoB-PART-1.jpg

And the pre-Shattering names of the three major regions matched with their post-Shattering planet/moon names are:

Great Barren = Bara Magna

Great Jungle = Bota Magna

Great Ocean = Aqua Magna

Technically the English names are just translations of the Agori names (which in turn are based, out-story, on real-world language etymologies), but the “Magnas” are generally treated as the planet/moon names only. Note that it's Bara Magna, by far the largest of the three fragments, which is seen as a planet, and the other two orbit it as moons. Aqua Magna also has a tiny moon orbiting it. Both the moons are sometimes called planets as well, but that's not technically right.





Replies to reviews:

AB -- I'm not sure. It doesn't matter to me, but I felt that people who are fans of Fero more than other characters would like to think that. :shrugs:


TL -- I guess I do like that power. :P


Fekoro -- Thanks for the review. ^_^


Jag -- Heh, yeah... now I just need to get around to all these edits... (Working on the Memoirs contest at moment).


NT -- Good point about the wording of that. I think that could work; I'll look it over.


About technology, there's basically three philosophies in science fiction -- that the order of invention by humans is a linear scale where one thing leads to the next inescapably, or that it's actually arbitrary... Or (most likely) a mix of both; human advancements are a rough guide to the most likely chronology of inventions but that other factors can alter it. Especially if for cultural reasons they simply don't think of a particular idea, or those who do think of it don't deem it valuable and it doesn't catch on.

With projectile weapons for example, the idea of a machine-perfected barrel for a bullet doesn't seem to have occurred to anyone. If it did, it's possible they didn't think of a number of other parts that make it efficient in our guns, like powder magazines.

You could imagine that somebody made a long stick-cannon in early history, but somebody else with a bow and arrow, and another with a sword, beat them miserably, if they didn't design it just right (early guns and cannons could be very difficult to operate and even harder to reload). There would be kickback, the projectile would likely be destroyed on impact (including if you missed, or just be hard to find), and you'd probably be left more or less defenseless, while somebody with a bow like Rogatio could shoot at you and if they miss, conceivably recapture the arrow and shoot it again (especially if you panic and don't think of picking the arrow up yourself to prevent that). A sword bearer could chase you down and never has to worry about ammo at all. People might have heard of this and decided guns had no potential, and if nobody else challenged this assumption long enough to invent an efficient one, it's possible the idea could remain unused.


TL -- Actually if you think about it, the wheels thing is likely an example of an outdated tech idea usually replaced by something better. At least for human tech history, wheels are much easier to invent than adept walking legs. And legs have some advantages wheels don't have on any terrain except roads (which can be expensive to maintain). Jaller wouldn't likely know that (I actually don't recall if/when it was Jaller, but I'll take your word for it :P), but that is probably the "real" reason wheels aren't common in the MU.

Likewise with non-protodermic (I assume you mean powers) flight. If you have a hovering power, you might not want to bother with "less advanced" methods. And in general it seems like other than with Rahi birds, and later with the jetpacks, land or water methods were preferred. IMO both the lack of flight and lack of guns on Spherus Magna probably implies there was a preference for options that are safer bets even if it sacrifices convenience. This might apply also to an internet; both Battlestar Galactica and Dune have set a precedent for societies that have actual rules against advanced computers (networking in BSG's case, although they broke the rule intentionally sometimes). On the other hand, the Great Beings might have had some or all of these things but reserved them for themselves. It's especially likely the GBs had flying craft IMO.

  • 0

#55 Offline fishers64

fishers64
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Members
  • Rahkshi Unleashed

  • 05-July 10
  • 6,000 posts
  •  

Posted May 01 2014 - 01:35 AM

Chapter 9:
Very interesting and realistic descriptions of the EP stuff and the maze. Also like the "mysterious girl" Agori. :shrugs:

One thing that was confusing: do the Great Beings have 4G? Did Koronga send out a signal that erased strategy from the Baterra's minds, or did he tell them to "come in" to the tower and have the update done?

Also wondering why the GBs did not have more guards there, although I suppose they assumed that the Baterra would kill all attackers. They probably figured that no one would think of Koronga's strategy. Still, valuable tower with important secrets...hmm...and given that it was established that others had worked at the tower before, why would you take weapons to break into your own house? Although they probably could not navigate the maze. Only Koronga could do it. :shrugs:

Chapter 10:

Same concern as above for the Lab; me thinks it would have better guards; also the bot, to avoid any unwanted explorers/hitchhikers. (Although granted Koronga does have shapeshifting powers to get past them, but still.)

 

The "tablet left behind" and the "flight to see out the window" thing feel slightly contrived. :shrugs: I'm okay with chalking up the latter to the half-memory-vision, but the former? Sloppy science guy left the map behind? Eh. 

 

The map itself strikes me as amazing and accurate though. Also, you don't seem to mention that he took the map with him, so he memorized it? :) 

It seemed they thought of me as, metaphorically speaking, mere nanotech for the giant robot. They literally saw us as machines, with some use of organics for muscles and the like, but it seemed they had not imagined that they could possibly succeed in creating genuine artificial intelligence.

Yet, all the seeds for it were there in the glowing text. The Matoran would have a full power of imagination, to think of ways around unforeseen problems. We would have a brain designed basically like the Agori's, able to learn and think and feel. Why did not the Great Beings see what that added up to?

Perhaps a designer's humility, I thought, for who would imagine that they might accidentally create sapient beings?

Our minds were based on a system of dual elemental light and shadow. The light represented mental pathways of construction, and the shadow of demolition. Both would be vital to our jobs.

The reason Matoran were given masks that they depended on for consciousness, the text revealed, was in case any of us glitched and started using, for example, processes of demolition where construction was warranted, or where nothing needed to be done at all yet, or started building things that would interfere with normal operations. Removing a mask left the unit unconscious, so it could be repaired.

New Matoran would be made by special machines placed throughout the 'Matoran Universe'. Mental gender identities were included, though there was no physical purpose to them, apparently just because the Great Beings were accustomed to thinking of beings in terms of gender.

Very interesting. :)
 

There were also to be more elemental associations than with the Element Lords, though this list appeared to be incomplete. They had made the first element, Light, have both genders, as well as some actual elemental powers, but later had cut down on the complexity of the spawning machines for other elements, so those Matoran had no powers, and gender was determined by element.

The potential for Matoran to transform into other related forms was mentioned, but it was a reference to another tablet with detailed notes that I couldn't find here. There was only the word Toa.


TOA! :D
 

The fourth side of the pedestal brought forth deep emotions.

All I registered at first was a diagram of two giants standing atop a large circle, each holding a hand up, and lines reaching out to another circle, making three circles in all. I didn't understand what I was seeing, but the notes soon made it clear, and I felt sick.

I could not focus on what I had learned, and found myself stumbling out. It was as if I had been stabbed and knew I was dying, or a close friend was dying.

The Shattering...wah wah wah... :(

 

(Very nice depth. Very nice.)
 

But I resisted the temptation my life once I entered might depend on having these things charged.

I'm confused as to what this sentence means. I think you meant to say "But I resisted the temptation because my life once I entered might depend on having these things charged."

 

Good chapter overall. Starting to get some depth on Koronga, which is good. Looking forward to the "GB boat adventures", whatever those may be.


  • 2

16028406952_a8c31f0bfe.jpg15838451978_fa70afcd66_m.jpg


#56 Offline TLhikan

TLhikan
  • Members
  • Descending into Protodermis

  • 24-March 07
  • 1,012 posts
  •  

Posted May 01 2014 - 09:44 AM

Great chapter; you really captured the emotional and physical aspects of the Shattering. I had always been sort of bugged by how people survived so easily being flung into space on a rock, but Mata Nui using his powers to cushion the breakaway is a really cool idea.

 

I also like your explanations of things like moral light/shadow and the fact that masks cause unconsciousness, although I wonder the GBs got the idea from studying Koronga, or did something else happen? The question of who it was that designed Koronga still bugs me, but hey, that's part of the mystery  :P.

 

Re:Wheels: The specific instance was when the Inika met Umbra; Jaller was surprised at the notion of someone "walking on their gears". While it could be like you said, that the Matoran are just so used to walking systems that work better, it felt like a mindset thing when I read it. But I don't know :P.

 

(On the other hand, Jaller isn't an engineer; Nuparu could have been perfectly familiar with wheels, but never needed to use them due to knowing how to make walking machines).

 

-TLhikan


Edited by TLhikan, May 01 2014 - 09:45 AM.

  • 1

"So I'm TL now?"
"Yeah, 'cuz if we said it the other way it'd have to be TLhiKHAAN!!"


#57 Offline WhereFMF

WhereFMF
  • Members
  • Turaga

  • 26-March 14
  • 67 posts

Posted May 01 2014 - 11:04 PM

I guess it's my turn to pitch in on the buzz of this site...

 

It's a great story premise. But I'm bored with Spherus Magna (I was never terribly captivated with it in the first place), and I'm glad you're getting to the Matoran Universe.

 

What are we allowed to do with this work? Can we copy it where we wish, or are there some restrictions? It would be great if you could put this under a CC-BY or CC-BY-SA license.

 

Above all, I would love it if you would stop referencing this work when you answer other people's questions. There's already a link to it in your signature, so you're getting advertising for it every time you post, and there's no need to emphasize it even more. Besides, the parts you're referencing are mostly unposted.


  • 1

#58 Offline Pohatu: Master of Stone

Pohatu: Master of Stone
  • Members
  • Emerging Mata Nuian Protector

  • 15-December 13
  • 1,651 posts
  •  

Posted May 06 2014 - 10:12 AM

What is the diagram with the giants and circles supposed to be?


  • 0

If you use correct grammar in your posts (or try hard to), place this in your signature. Join Myst's campaign for correct grammar usage on BZPower!

:smilepohatunu: chimoru2015spinnie.gif Credit to Click for the awesome Bionicle 2015 spinnie!

rahkshitoa.pngCredit to Voxumo for the sprite of my self-moc!

Steal the Mask 3: You know you want the Mask of Life, too!

 

I also play TF2. My name is Pohatu Nuva, and I spraypaint the 2015 version of me in the spawn.


#59 Offline bonesiii

bonesiii
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Forum Leaders
  • Perpetual Master of Reference

  • 14-March 03
  • 19,411 posts
  •   BZP Leader

Posted May 07 2014 - 09:56 AM

Author's Comments for Chapter 11: The Founders of the New

Yeah, didn't have time to draw the "supership". Kinda like it being undrawn so it's more open to interpretation, but I might change my mind later. :shrugs: In other news: I've noticed in proofreading more upcoming chapters that apparently I use "humanoid" habitually a lot lol. I've Find & Replaced them all now with some variant on "bipedal" or "Toa-like", and changed the one in Chapter 1.

Note:

The Great Beings' supership is non-canon. It is known that they traveled to various places in the Matoran Universe, some of which is represented in this chapter, before the Shattering. It's not known how they got around, but some kind of boat is likely.

Note:

As of writing this comment it's still debated if the southern continent is in the lower torso or the chest of the giant robot. What is known is that it's the largest and southernmost of two continents, and that the northern one is definitely in the chest, along with several islands. I've made an image showing my interpretation of the arrangement here (but it mentions many locations not yet seen in this chapter, so those new to Bionicle may wish to wait to see this later; it's also linked in the Appendix file that will be included along with this story):

http://www.bzpower.c...s-theories-map/

Note:

The image used for Koronga's bird form here is a non-canon prototype image. No canon version of this creature was ever made.

Note [two paragraphs starting with "The explanation seemed"]:

This Toa's involvement here is non-canon. Staffs that can carve the ground under mental control like this are canon but have been seen only in the hands of Great Beings. This is a non-canon version of the staff that undoes the tunnel afterward. The Toa is canon, and officially has one of the most important jobs inside the Matoran Universe, but whether she ever met Great Beings personally is unknown.

Note:

Image [of robed beings in night dune setting] does not actually take place in Karda Nui, nor is it certain that the robed beings shown are Great Beings; it is a cropped part of a portrayal of the Core War.

Note:

Avohkah image by Tattorack, used with permission.

Note:

As far as I know, it's not confirmed that the actual being named Tren Krom has anything directly to do with the Tren Krom Peninsula. I chose to partially explain the name by this incident, but I've purposefully left it a mystery as to why exactly they took him ashore here. The location is often confused for the Tren Krom Island (where the Great Beings leave him soon after), so I wanted to have a reason to mention both so the reader will avoid that mistake.

Note:

In fact this giant container is non-canon, but I figure they must have transported Tren Krom in something like it. Unless they just teleported him out or some such thing, but that seems unlikely, especially since the opening to the Codrex is known to be huge, and the most likely reason is to have room to get Tren Krom out. To be clear, he did not remain inside whatever container they used; instead they fused him to the island.

It's possible they had access to a teleporting power and just made him appear on the island instantly, but normally teleportation is impossible through Karda Nui's shields. One very elite character was seen doing that, and the Great Beings might know how too, but in any event I felt it better to avoid the issue here. Teleportation also might be how the Great Beings themselves got around in the Matoran Universe, but we don't know that, and at least one canon portrayal shows them walking.

Note:

I considered having this list [of Matoran Universe elements] be made on a computer screen; the use of chalk is somewhat questionable for advanced scientists, but my thinking is it's more energy-efficient, and they do show an interest in tactile materials apparently by their emphasis on elements in the first place. Plus some plans they don't want to risk anybody getting their hands on could be totally erased this way, versus the slight risk of hacking a computer.

Note:

No canon forms other than the description of cloaked figures are known for Great Beings. Image [of the closeup on one Great Being, with the gauntlet] by Silverglass, used with permission.

Note:

Sorry for the lack of image for Orde. I had requested permission from one artist, but have yet to hear back one way or the other. If I don't by the time I release the “final” file version or nobody volunteers an interpretation, I will try to find time to make one myself. Complicating matters is that we don't know what mask he wore or many other details about his appearance.

Note:

The mental template idea is a non-canon interpretation of why the ratio of genders in the Matoran Universe is not 50/50 as it is on SM (a random drawing of Great Beings to supply these templates would not likely be exactly half and half according to the rules of statistics), and why Psionics was made a female element even though Orde was male (if the person who replaced the original template happened to be female the mental gender would change as a side effect).

Another possibility if the templates weren't based on existing individuals is that they may have decided to remove the temper tendency as a result of his failure, but while they were at it, belatedly realized their elements list was unbalanced by gender, and made it a little less imbalanced since they were already editing the programming anyways. Orde claims an explanation of their motives in one very late source, but as it has been controversial (and he wasn't likely privy to their actual reasons so could easily have misinterpreted), this story will not include that quote, so it can be effectively ignored.







Replies to reviews:

fishers -- It's stated that a signal summoned all Baterra back to the tower for an update and the construction robot administered the update.

[Note: It was brought up in an S&T topic this week that the Baterra actually communicate with subsonics (or infrasonics; too low pitched for people to hear), which I wasn't aware of when I wrote about the radio summoning signal. But I think I won't change this, as sonics work better for short-range communication from robot to robot, while they could also have a receiver-only radio, specifically to listen for a planet-wide signal telling them to return for an update.]

And yeah, the Baterra would otherwise be very good guards; it was a wartime situation and they didn't expect anybody to try to enter (mainly to steal the power source) unless they were armed. And nobody knew the secret of the Baterra (so far as the GBs knew). Plus, m'believe there are extra safeguards here and there, but I wasn't sure on that point so I just left it implied that Koronga knew how to avoid them (and many of them might be added later, as it's still under construction at the time).

The idea with the map is it would have been one of many copies and many other tablets, and that they left in a hurry, so it's plausible one copy would get missed like that. And yeah, I meant to imply that he took it with him, I believe...

The last sentence is the disappearing dashes striking again, and me not having time that day to read the whole chapter again after posting. Fixed. :) And I think I've got a way now to make it less likely to happen again.



TL -- All I'll say is that I imagine that the Great Beings were already mulling around the idea of using masks, so didn't entirely get the idea from Koronga (but no comment on how Koronga came to be).



Where -- Well, I always try to be very sparing in mentions of my own fanfics anyways, but keep in mind an entire retelling project, especially one that is intentionally trying to be canon-fit, is naturally going to come up in S&T discussions more than most. Also, since your advice would seemingly have to apply to all others' fanfics (many people mention them in S&T, not just me), here's what I've said on this before: "members are always encouraged to allude to ideas in their fanfics, that are relevant to a topic, without actually spoiling it in that topic. By no means in S&T should fanfic writers feel pressured to choose between the false dichotomy of either leaving it entirely unsaid or stating it directly." (Asking for advice on how to keep fanfics canon-fitting is also allowed.) That's not the same as advertising, which would be an off-topic "check out my fanfic!" type post.

Also, remember that just because you personally might not be interested in something doesn't mean others aren't. In general the rule of thumb is that if something is legitimately on-topic for a forum division, and you happen not to be interested in it, simply ignore it, rather than trying to take it away from others. :)


Re: copying, I'm not 100% sure what you're asking -- copy where and why? If you just mean an offline copy in case of internet outage, that's fine. Anywho, glad you at least like the premise. :P



RT88 -- The Shattering (or more specifically, the plan to use two giant robots to undo the Shattering). :) That was cleared up later in the chapter; the reasons it's unclear when he sees it are because psychologically it was so traumatic to him, since he loved Spherus Magna (and realized it would likely kill many), that he didn't want to think about it, and partially to avoid spoiling it when he actually witnesses it in case anybody ever does read this who doesn't already know Bionicle's plot and would enjoy the showing, more than the (fore)telling. :)

Edited by bonesiii, May 07 2014 - 02:25 PM.

  • 2

#60 Offline ALVIS

ALVIS
  • Members
  • Flying Force!

  • 10-January 09
  • 2,411 posts
  •  

Posted May 07 2014 - 01:08 PM

Whoa, that was a good one. Love the Velika cameo. It had just the right mix of mystery and menace. :D

 

What's most impressive, though, is how you depicted the whole Orde fiasco. Up 'til now, I've preferred to say that discussion in The Yesterday Quest never happened, Orde's backstory is non-canon, and he's a girl like all the rest of the Ce-types. But this retelling... well, simply put, it's made that debacle actually acceptable. The mental-templating idea is a brilliant way to explain the uneven gender ratio without making the Great Beings into unlikable sexists*. (After all, they've got enough strikes against them already, haha.)

 

So, in short, congratulations for making me appreciate an element* of the story I'd always hated before. :)

 

* Wait, really? "j e r k s" is filtered? That's ridiculous.

 

** My apologies for the pun. No, just kidding, I never apologize for puns.


Edited by Angel Bob, May 07 2014 - 01:09 PM.

  • 3
"You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant."
 
-- Harlan Ellison
 
Short Stories:
 
LAST DESTINY, starring an Agori and a Turaga
 
DESCENDANT, starring Kraata-Kal and Makuta Teridax
AN EVEN EXCHANGE, starring the Makuta of Stelt
THE END OF THE BROTHERHOOD, starring Tobduk and Makuta Chirox

#61 Offline NuvaTube

NuvaTube
  • Members
  • Toa

  • 05-March 13
  • 132 posts
  •  

Posted May 07 2014 - 04:16 PM

YES! The mental template idea was perfect! You circumvented the issues so well with the mental template. The "gentler females" really annoyed me without further context! Oh MATA NUI I LOVE THAT IDEA BONES! :3

 

Oh, you said "I put it in a special pocket of my backpack". Can we have more info on this "special pocket" because it sounds like something that should really be elaborated on. Don't just tell us its "a special pocket" without telling us why it's special XD

 

*sigh*...Orde was an cool dude...

 

Maybe you should comment on the variation that can still occur despite the template, I mean, Matoran aren't clones of one another right? Matoran of the same element can be very similar in general traits, but do you think this is like how identical twins can behave differently and still obviously be individuals, or that they're more like siblings?

 

Also, how different do you think that the final versions of the DoB will be? At the moment, a few of the Retelling feel like a skeleton rather than a fully developed story. I know you've put word limits, but sometimes I think that they really hold things back, as it sometimes feels like it's a list of events and facts to state and tick off. Perhaps make it more retrospective, giving more of a sense of someone writing the story down, reflecting on their memories, or a story that happens there and then, though still retrospectively, like how Vakama would start to tell stories in the prolouge, then the book goes back in time as he tells it, so everyone basically relives it?

 

Also, I'm expecting there's gonna be a connection between Vakama, Kratana and Koronga, given their future visions, right? :3

 

Oh, and did you mean Kanoka instead of Kanota?

 

And I'm guessing the blue Toa can only be Helryx, if the MU is still at the stage where Toa are being created and not made from Matoran?


Edited by NuvaTube, May 09 2014 - 12:34 PM.

  • 2

#62 Offline fishers64

fishers64
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Members
  • Rahkshi Unleashed

  • 05-July 10
  • 6,000 posts
  •  

Posted May 10 2014 - 05:18 PM

Chapter 11:

Oh, and did you mean Kanoka instead of Kanota?

I thought the scene was meant to imply that "Velika" was thinking up his Matoran name on that particular chalkboard. Was it?

And I'm guessing the blue Toa can only be Helryx, if the MU is still at the stage where Toa are being created and not made from Matoran?

:shrugs: I don't know - could be some random Toa near Karda Nui that got killed after the Sendback broke and... :P

 

Still, the notes seem to imply it, so :shrugs:

 

Is it supposed to be understood that the GBs that "left with the mysterious box" were taking the Ignika to Voya Nui?

 

 (a random drawing of Great Beings to supply these templates would not likely be exactly half and half according to the rules of statistics)

It took a minute for all the gears to click together, but okay - if you had 30 male GBs and 30 female GBs in a room and had them all put their names in a hat and randomly picked 14, in theory you have an even possibility of any gender ratio. :shrugs: Makes sense. :) 

 

Orde: I imagined it slightly different, I figured he might have been more gentle at first, then made one tiny error in persuasion that set them off. Although Koronga can't see the mental forces at work, so I guess it could still be that way, but the way he tells seems to be is that Orde snaps without even trying to be diplomatic. 

 

Although he might have, and all Koronga sees is him snapping. :shrugs: I figured he would have eventually snapped when his persuasion backfired, but that there would have been persuasion before that. 

 

EDIT: Wording adjusted. 


Edited by fishers64, May 11 2014 - 06:50 PM.

  • 1

16028406952_a8c31f0bfe.jpg15838451978_fa70afcd66_m.jpg


#63 Offline JAG18

JAG18
  • Members
  • Aquatic Guardian

  • 20-February 14
  • 378 posts

Posted May 11 2014 - 06:45 PM

Chapter 10: 

 

A pretty great way to end the first part; your depiction of The Shattering was, for me, a real highlight both for this chapter and the epic as a whole.  

 

Also, I half expected Koronga to name his Rock Steed Skirmix.   :P

 

Chapter 11:

 

Good chapter, the appearances by canon characters were cool, and your takes on some of the GB's decisions (such as how they came up with the gender ratio) were interesting.  The scene with Orde trying to calm down the Zyglak was my favorite part.  


  • 1

#64 Offline Pohatu: Master of Stone

Pohatu: Master of Stone
  • Members
  • Emerging Mata Nuian Protector

  • 15-December 13
  • 1,651 posts
  •  

Posted May 13 2014 - 10:00 AM

I could totally picture Orde walking onto a field, seeing all the Zyglak and deciding to fight brawn with brain- only to give them terrible headaches and screw up their minds, and proceed to chase him like in a scene from Looney Tunes!


  • 1

If you use correct grammar in your posts (or try hard to), place this in your signature. Join Myst's campaign for correct grammar usage on BZPower!

:smilepohatunu: chimoru2015spinnie.gif Credit to Click for the awesome Bionicle 2015 spinnie!

rahkshitoa.pngCredit to Voxumo for the sprite of my self-moc!

Steal the Mask 3: You know you want the Mask of Life, too!

 

I also play TF2. My name is Pohatu Nuva, and I spraypaint the 2015 version of me in the spawn.


#65 Offline bonesiii

bonesiii
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Forum Leaders
  • Perpetual Master of Reference

  • 14-March 03
  • 19,411 posts
  •   BZP Leader

Posted May 14 2014 - 11:12 PM

Author's Comments for Chapter 12: Six Heroes of Legend

Note [first Tahu image]:

Non-canon interpretation of the Toa of Fire by Nuvatube, used with permission.

Note:

There is no canon image of Takua's form at this time, nor is it known what mask he wore. This is a color edit of a later form.

 

Note ["a projectile weapon of some sort"]:

These weapons are non-canon.







Replies to reviews:

AB -- Very glad you approve of the Orde handling. I felt for the sake of the Zyglak it would be best to try to salvage it somehow (well, plus, I like the idea of the element of Psionics, weird though it is).


NT -- I didn't mean anything unusual about the pocket. :P I don't even remember using that word choice. But I guess it would mean "a pocket that happened to be about the right size."

Well, the word "template" is meant to imply that there's a lot of variations on the themes. We've seen quite different personalities within elements (Taipu, Onepu, and Midak are three good examples).

No real way to predict how different it will be. The "skeletal" feel is mostly intentional; if I fleshed everything out fully it would never get done. And I wanted it to be pretty fast-paced, at least in the early chapters. But there are definitely parts I'd like to expand if I ever get time.

I did mean Kanota, but I had a feeling people might think it was a typo for Kanoka. It's based loosely on an S&T theory someone posted a while ago that pointed out that both Ka and Ta have associations with the English translation "spirit" (seen in Phantoka and Mata, for example). I went with the idea that Ta can mean fire or spirit (or some component of spirit, that is, perhaps "consciousness"). And Ka could mean both spirit in another sense, and flight (Kano+ka could mean "object that was made, that flies", while Kano+hi could mean "made-object on face"; mask).

So both Kanota and Velika could mean something + spirit, loosely, as another way of toying with his creations by practically saying what he is outright; a consciousness downloaded into something. Kanota could have literally meant "my mind downloaded into something I made". No idea what Veli would mean... maybe "riddle" lol. The similarity to Kanohi (mask) could also imply "consciousness disguised". (But in any event, since he did reject the name and it won't show up anywhere else, I'm considering changing it to avoid people thinking it's a typo. On the other hand, maybe that's the very reason he rejected it lol. :shrugs:)


fishers -- Right and right; it's Helryx, and that was the Ignika. :)

The idea was that he felt he needed to try to calm them down before really trying to persuade them of anything; you can't persuade people who just attack you outright. But his attempt to calm them down didn't work like he thought it would, in part because he wasn't calm himself, so he wasn't concentrating perfectly.

And then he compounded the problem by assuming his mistake was not trying hard enough to calm them down, so he intensified the power, which just made it worse. So basically, he didn't have a chance to start persuading them yet. But any number of other interpretations are valid, of course. :)

 

 

RT88 -- Yeah, the way I saw it, the Great Beings had implied to him that they wanted to see his element in action and were sending him for this mission precisely because of that "brain" element. So he was motivated to try that first before talk, in my version.


  • 1

#66 Offline Pohatu: Master of Stone

Pohatu: Master of Stone
  • Members
  • Emerging Mata Nuian Protector

  • 15-December 13
  • 1,651 posts
  •  

Posted May 15 2014 - 06:33 AM

I read over the Pohatu/Tahu dialouge many times. (Classic Pohatu!) After I felt like I got it all, I started retelling it out loud. It felt a bit weird to do that, but you captured their personalities so well, it felt like it was canon, and no questions about it. The way you bring the Bionicle to life in a way that seems to be canon in totally amazing.


  • 1

If you use correct grammar in your posts (or try hard to), place this in your signature. Join Myst's campaign for correct grammar usage on BZPower!

:smilepohatunu: chimoru2015spinnie.gif Credit to Click for the awesome Bionicle 2015 spinnie!

rahkshitoa.pngCredit to Voxumo for the sprite of my self-moc!

Steal the Mask 3: You know you want the Mask of Life, too!

 

I also play TF2. My name is Pohatu Nuva, and I spraypaint the 2015 version of me in the spawn.


#67 Offline ALVIS

ALVIS
  • Members
  • Flying Force!

  • 10-January 09
  • 2,411 posts
  •  

Posted May 15 2014 - 08:21 AM

I feel the dialogue in this chapter was a little stale; it didn't always fit with my understanding of the Toa Mata. The most egregious example would be "Time for mind training!" It just sounds silly, mostly because of the term "mind training". Like "foot armor", it's just a little too blunt and simple-minded. I feel like you could have chosen a better phrase.

 

(Also, the Takua color-change seems alarmingly green.)

 

Anyway, I'm at least interested in the recent developments. Kopaka is a shrewd one, as usual, so I look forward to seeing him expose Koronga.


  • 2
"You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant."
 
-- Harlan Ellison
 
Short Stories:
 
LAST DESTINY, starring an Agori and a Turaga
 
DESCENDANT, starring Kraata-Kal and Makuta Teridax
AN EVEN EXCHANGE, starring the Makuta of Stelt
THE END OF THE BROTHERHOOD, starring Tobduk and Makuta Chirox

#68 Offline TLhikan

TLhikan
  • Members
  • Descending into Protodermis

  • 24-March 07
  • 1,012 posts
  •  

Posted May 21 2014 - 11:10 AM

I really liked the last two chapters; I've always felt sort of disconnected to the whole Spherus Magna part of the story, maybe just because it only really came in at the end or whatever, but now that we're in the MU and seeing the original Toa, it just feels more Bionicle-like.  

 

-TLhikan


  • 0

"So I'm TL now?"
"Yeah, 'cuz if we said it the other way it'd have to be TLhiKHAAN!!"


#69 Offline bonesiii

bonesiii
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Forum Leaders
  • Perpetual Master of Reference

  • 14-March 03
  • 19,411 posts
  •   BZP Leader

Posted May 21 2014 - 05:58 PM

Author's Comments for Chapter 13: A Painful Choice

Note:

[Second] Kopaka image by me.
 
Note:

We don't know if there were any Rahi here [in the caves connecting the Southern Continent's surface to the floor level of Karda Nui] yet at this time.





Replies to reviews:

RT88 -- Thanks. ^_^ Had a lot of practice writing these particular Toa, of course (in the Paracosmos). :)


AB (now Yalda) -- And there's a perfect example of how two people with apparently different tastes can read the same thing and have different reactions. :P I'm not sure why you'd say that, in general. IMO it's very consistent with them, including their portrayal when they first woke up. They -are- a little silly, often blunt, and when simple gets the job done... Being honest to who the characters are shouldn't be a bad thing, IMO. :shrugs:

I -was- unsure what to call it, though; mind training or what. I was going to say something about brain challenges, but then I thought, do they know the word for brain? They're not anatomy scientists, they're heroes, and very young ones at that. So figured mind, and training fits with what they're doing. If you have a better suggestion, though, I'm all... er... eyes.

The color editing system in GIMP is fairly limited, so yes, there's a spot of green that resulted, but I actually chose to leave it on purpose because it coincidentally matches the kinds of reflections you'd get in a metallic mask standing in a jungle. :) (There's a more difficult way to edit colors that could have gotten rid of that. Although, if I ever have time I would like to touch it up to actually add a background so it makes more sense, and some added green on the rest. But I didn't really have time for either option, so far, and that form is rather tentative anyways so yeah.)


TL -- Yeah, the way I look at it is, the SM parts are sort of "pre-Bionicle"; you have to know them to know how what we got used to thinking of as Bionicle got started. (Although I do see the end-of-story SM stuff as fully Bionicle too, personally, at least once Mata Nui lands, since it's been hinted since the original location's story that there was life outside the Matoran/Toa/etc. culture, with the totally organic starfish on beaches, etc.)


Edited by bonesiii, May 21 2014 - 06:11 PM.

  • 0

#70 Offline ALVIS

ALVIS
  • Members
  • Flying Force!

  • 10-January 09
  • 2,411 posts
  •  

Posted May 21 2014 - 07:39 PM

An important realization.

 

At this point, I have to give it to you straight: your writing is not elegant. I'm sorry if that insults you, but it is the truth. And in stating it out loud, I have helped myself realize that exceptional writing is not the point, at least not in this particular fanfic. TDOB is not so much a literary work of art as it is a vessel for your theories about the nature and history of the BIONICLE universe. I now accept that.

 

Henceforth, I will judge chapters accordingly. No more complaints about "foot armor" or "mind training" or one-sentence paragraphs that slow the action. Instead, I will evaluate the ideas and theories presented in each chapter, almost as if in S&T.

 

I hope I haven't offended you. I don't mean this as an insult or even a criticism; it is an announcement, nothing more. :)

 

And now, on to the review proper.

 

Ahh, so that's how you dodged the "Toa don't kill" with the Avohkah situation: the Toa Mata disabled them with Nynrah Ghost Blasters and shipped them off to the Archives. Simple, yet very clever, and you've managed to avoid contradicting previously established facts and rules -- something that BIONICLE itself was always really bad at doing. :P I was a little jarred by the idea that the blasters and the Archives had already been invented at this early time, but in retrospect, there is no particular reason that they should have been invented later. So kudos to you on that theory.

 

Also, you've upgraded Kopaka's mask, apparently... I'm not sure how I feel about that. A "Mask of Vision" makes sense, in theory, but the way you've handled it, he appears to instead be wearing a Kanohi Rode. Would you mind explaining what the capabilities of Kopaka's mask are in your retelling?

 

I look forward to seeing where Koronga goes after this (and after his witnessing of the Shattering from the sunholes).

 

If I have any complaints, it's that I think you spent too long on some items, namely the Matoran marching order. It took up a lot of space and rather slowed down the pacing. Details on the Av-Matoran's culture, or the environment in Karda Nui, would have been a good use of this space, but their precise formation tactics aren't really that important to me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you could've deleted that detail altogether.


  • 0
"You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant."
 
-- Harlan Ellison
 
Short Stories:
 
LAST DESTINY, starring an Agori and a Turaga
 
DESCENDANT, starring Kraata-Kal and Makuta Teridax
AN EVEN EXCHANGE, starring the Makuta of Stelt
THE END OF THE BROTHERHOOD, starring Tobduk and Makuta Chirox

#71 Offline fishers64

fishers64
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Members
  • Rahkshi Unleashed

  • 05-July 10
  • 6,000 posts
  •  

Posted May 21 2014 - 11:08 PM

Chapter 12: My #1 issue: would the Toa Code have really been invented by this time? I suppose the GBs could have programmed it in, but I'm not sure it would necessarily be the subject of the Mata's mind games (if there were mind games...anyway...)
 
Chapter 13:
 

They glanced at each other, a look of surprise on Tahu's face... and a face on Kopaka's head.

I'm not sure what this sentence means. It strikes me as slightly funny, but I'm not sure that's what the author intended.
 
Also that ending sequence of the Mata being put to sleep out and out contradicts the Swamp of Secrets protrayal. The changes in the dialogue sequence are stomachable, but reaaallly...
 

It had taken months, but the last of the Avohkah had been defeated.

Hours instead of months? :P
 

"Well...great,"said Lewa. "It's got to be better than that dimension-hop we took to get here."

Somebody's missing a dimension-jump. :shrugs:
 

Gali hurled a water burst at an incoming avokah. The creature struck the water dead-on. Exhausted, the Toa of Water looked around, but there were no more of the sapient lightening bolts to be found. The battle was finally over.

This is a mild point, but Gali doesn't have any compunction about "killing" that lightning bolt. You can argue that the avohkah wasn't alive...if there aliveness (and even sapience!) wasn't comfirmed in the next sentence. I could use this to make the case that the Toa Code was introduced later, but it's more of a subjective call. The Nynrah Ghost blasters aren't contradicted directly - if that's what those were? - except that they were invented by the Nyrnah Ghosts (was that even an organization at this time? :shrugs:)
 
(FTR, the battle with the avohkah is Swamp of Secrets page 92 - 98, and 109- 118, if anyone's curious. I note this because this book does chronology schizo between this and the 2008 KN battle, which makes it a difficult nav. )
 
This throws this entire sequence into question. My suggestion is to make a minor edit to indicate how long the battle was, and then make a couple more to indicate dimensional travel along the journey there, and possibly disregard the last thing. If you really wanted to fix it 100% I would have Koronga meet them in Karda Nui and get acquainted with them during the months-long battle (but it's your story, your call). 
 
Hope this helps. :shrugs:
 
On the redeeming point, I really liked that Takua was shown to be here - he was confirmed to be here in canon, so I liked the nod. :)


  • 2

16028406952_a8c31f0bfe.jpg15838451978_fa70afcd66_m.jpg


#72 Offline Pohatu: Master of Stone

Pohatu: Master of Stone
  • Members
  • Emerging Mata Nuian Protector

  • 15-December 13
  • 1,651 posts
  •  

Posted May 22 2014 - 08:09 AM

I really liked it! Once again, your excellent writing leaves me hungry for more. One error I could find though- Pohatu, not Kopaka, was the first to enter a canister.


  • 0

If you use correct grammar in your posts (or try hard to), place this in your signature. Join Myst's campaign for correct grammar usage on BZPower!

:smilepohatunu: chimoru2015spinnie.gif Credit to Click for the awesome Bionicle 2015 spinnie!

rahkshitoa.pngCredit to Voxumo for the sprite of my self-moc!

Steal the Mask 3: You know you want the Mask of Life, too!

 

I also play TF2. My name is Pohatu Nuva, and I spraypaint the 2015 version of me in the spawn.


#73 Offline TLhikan

TLhikan
  • Members
  • Descending into Protodermis

  • 24-March 07
  • 1,012 posts
  •  

Posted May 23 2014 - 04:13 PM

 

 

I -was- unsure what to call it, though; mind training or what. I was going to say something about brain challenges, but then I thought, do they know the word for brain? 

I would have used the term "mental exercises", speaking for myself.

 

I liked this chapter, although it seems clear that the DoB history is going to have to vary slightly from the Official one just because of our narrator. But, l like it :D

 

This is more of a canon question than one pertaining to your story, but how did the Mata's muscles rot if they where in energy stasis? Is that just how it works? 

 

Also, did Gali paint her mask yellow briefly :P


  • 2

"So I'm TL now?"
"Yeah, 'cuz if we said it the other way it'd have to be TLhiKHAAN!!"


#74 Offline bonesiii

bonesiii
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Forum Leaders
  • Perpetual Master of Reference

  • 14-March 03
  • 19,411 posts
  •   BZP Leader

Posted May 28 2014 - 09:34 AM

Author's Comments for Chapter 14: Inner Workings

Chapter 14 is a strange one that's mostly internalized, not really meant to go by itself, but I think I should still stick with the weekly schedule, so bear with me. :P 14 and 15 together mark a transition from Koronga's old life to where the Matoran Universe story really starts.

Note:

As mentioned before, these repair robots are non-canon. We know that the Matoran's work keeping the automated skyscrapers running somehow causes repairs throughout the giant robot, but we don't know how. This model made in LEGO Digital Designer by me, based loosely on the designs of the Baterra and one other canon type of robot that is known to perform a major function for the giant robot, to be introduced later.

The idea of this model's design is that the four hoverpads let it fly through the conduit tunnels, and the devices at the ends of the arms teleport objects from the “truckbed” part in the middle to the place where the replacement part is needed, in the right alignment, then the arms can use some basic welding powers to keep them in place. I made it two-headed so it wouldn't need to turn around inside a narrow tunnel; the other side's arms would act as propulsion.

Another possibility for how repairs work is that Mata Nui's subconscious systems teleport or transport replacement parts without the need for robotic vehicles to move the parts. We know he doesn't consiously handle repairs, though. And it seems more efficient for the systems to be mobile and not have to worry about long-distance teleportation. Also, in my design, teleportation wouldn't actually be needed per se; the leaf-like parts over the truck part could fold open and a telekinetic field could move the object to another telekinetic field in the arm, as the arm reaches back, etc.

You can see more images of this model here (I'm calling them “Bahkiril” there based on the first syllable of the rulers of the second type of canon robot, and similar to Baterra, and the Matoran word for repair of inanimate objects, Kiril, but I'm not using the name in-story):

http://www.brickshel...ry.cgi?f=543870

Note:

This is a canon image [the one the story portrays as in the basement of the Coliseum] but it is not known exactly what it depicts other than as an example of inner workings of the giant robot somewhere. I have used it for the power station in the Coliseum since that is canonically established to exist, as a theory for the identity of this image.
 
Note ["Great Beings coded eight"]:

The eight “root” or basic powers are:
-Random Reconstitution (randomly mutates a target into some sort of functional form)
-Freezing
-Weakening (both physical structures and making living targets feel weaker)
-Poison Removal
-Enlarging (temporary)
-Shrinking (also temporary)
-Regeneration (of inanimate objects)
-Teleportation.

You can read more about the mixture system here (note that the disk part of it wasn't invented yet at this point):

http://biosector01.c....2FKanoka_Chart
 
Note:

This image is of the rebuilt Great Temple after the first was destroyed much later. We don't know that the design of the second would be identical to the first, but I'm going with that interpretation. There's some evidence it might be, as one Metru Nui inhabitant seems not to know that it was rebuilt. However, the wording is unclear if that detail was part of what the character didn't know, and the character did know that pipes that used to lead to it became unused at one point and different pipes added; this may refer to the rebuilding, but we don't know.
 





Replies to reviews:

My replies this week will get rather lengthy, but I'll try to be as concise as possible nevertheless.


Yalda -- The English language is not super elegant in and of itself, really. :P But I don't really know what you mean. It seems from several of your comments that you have a particular sort of preference, which is different in some way from mine or what I was aiming for, though apparently similar enough to enjoy it anyways. I'm sure it seems normal to you, but just remember that literary art isn't defined by your personal preferences. :)

As for what the myriad goals are, like I said I'm not really going to lay out a list of what I aimed for. It's better to let readers keep an open mind discover it for themselves all throughout the journey, and I've said plenty already about some of the main goals. Although nothing wrong with saying that it's definitely inaccurate to say that theories are the main point. No, theories are there where they are warranted because of the other goals. Also, they only come up where the canon is lacking anyways; how could occasional patches in a wall define the entire wall?

To specifics:
 
They're not Ghost Blasters; those (original version) control mechanical parts (Avohkah have none). The mention of the Archives is indeed debatable, but it has practical educational benefits that it would make sense to be concerned with even then. "Vision" is just a shortening of "X-Ray Vision" that I've used for a long time in my fanfics, and is actually mentioned as an alternate name on BS01.

Environment -- well, it's been established it's just sand everywhere at this point. I do think there's some additions that could help here, though, like talking about how tiring it is to trudge up sand dunes. To culture, remember that the Great Beings just left and didn't find out that the Matoran were going to be developing their own culture, so evidently there isn't much to learn yet at this point. Battle strategy -- from a character-based perspective, wouldn't that actually probably be the main thing on a character's mind? Get that wrong, and people die, right?



fishers -- What happened with this chapter gets a bit complicated, but ultimately it happened for reasons I can't entirely reveal, but TL summed up in his post; Koronga's getting involved "changed" things. I wrote it first without remembering that there was a detailed official version, as at the time I was working off the timeline, but it was intended to be like the scene with the Ice Lord at the energized protodermis well. The reader is meant to understand that whatever Koronga is directly involved with is non-canon, whether or not a canon version is made (unless, ideally, I specify otherwise), even though the vast majority of the time I try to stick as closely as possible to canon here.

That said, I did vaguely realize when I ran into the scene when I was doing 2008 stuff that it was different, but I honestly didn't like the canon version nearly as much as mine, and I found serious problems with the canon version anyways, but I was too rushed at the time to remember I needed to go back and add comments clarifying reasons for the differences. And just as I was posting it last week, I ran out of time to write up most of the comments for it, and almost mentioned that, but sometimes it's better to throw the reader into the proverbial deep end to find out if they'll swim on their own. :P (Although the comment about the weapons does imply it.)
 
Now, to specifics:

-Biggest problem for me was the casual use of dimensional travel. I had made a decision early on not to feature that until much later, to build up to it gradually since it's so "out there", and even to make it a bad thing which the canon barely seemed to do (Lewa's line does say that but it's so vague as to be almost useless). Plus, to have Koronga find out about it and "hitch a ride" I'd have to have him go into Daxia, but his reason for not risking it at this time does make sense, and I had already written his introduction to Daxia later. Basically I'd have to change too many later things to do this.

But this one works well for this story because there's also a clear reason Koronga's presence would change things; by sending the Toa by sea and land travel instead, they could give their suspected spy time to slip up and get caught, so they could figure out if he's an enemy. If they hopped, the spy would lose their trail, but that also means they and the Order would lose the spy.

Now does this mean this is a totally different universe from canon? Not necessarily -- the Toa's flashback to this scene was part of a series of visions given to Takanuva to tell the past to him. We assume when we read the story that these are entirely truthful, but it's possible Helryx wanted to keep the real story a secret, and told instead what probably would have happened had Koronga not been involved. Obviously this is not the canon intent, so I would leave it up to the interpretation of the reader whether this is the case or if this is a different universe.

-Its happening fairly quickly seemed to make more sense to me, though come to think of it there is an edit that could make it more ambiguous I could do. The Avohkah are portrayed as going out of their way to attack, and being deadly, and in such numbers that it would take months to stop them all -- yet the canon has the Matoran actually still living in Karda Nui. It makes more sense to me if the Avohkah appear as a side effect of the Codrex and underlying tech being finished and hooked up, and attack the Av-Matoran as they are already leaving. Otherwise you'd think the Matoran would already be all dead.

And since the Avohkah attack, rather than leave and hide, a quick battle seems more plausible to me; they come to the Toa, so why there would be months of delay is beyond me. However, I could make it more open to interpretation by having them go back to the old huts and camping there for "many" nights (though there's no sun to tell time exactly, but they'd have to sleep sometime). This is consistent with Takanuva's flashback really being a story told by somebody who wasn't there, and got a detail wrong, but again, open to interpretation.

-You didn't mention this, but there's also a "peer out a hatch" moment in the canon portrayal that seems completely contradictory with everything else we know about the Codrex's design (there's only one possible exit, other than maybe something underground as I theorized here, and it's not at all like a hatch), and they looked at the energy storm from inside while it was forming (plus the storm hasn't hit there yet, even though it's supposed to radiate from the outer surface). (2008 seems to have had a lot of major contradictions like this, in fact, way more than usual. In almost every part of it I had to choose between several different contradictory things, though few were as bad as this one. Again it's a detail consistent with the "Takanuva was given a fib or legend" explanation.)

-As for the Toa Code, it's debatable but it's more consistent with 2001 if the Toa Mata already know it, since the Turaga don't ever have to teach it to them. Of course, the story team hadn't thought of it yet (at least I don't think so), but still.



RT -- See above for the basic answer. To which Toa went first, it felt wrong to me for one of the ones who got trapped to go first; this way one of the two who made the decision to trap them there goes first. It seemed to me that's what they would do; to prove it wasn't treason. (The canon partially solves this with that troublesome hatch scene, which I felt shouldn't be kept; they were able to look out and see why they couldn't leave, though that still wouldn't necessarily prove that trapping them in the Codrex rather than letting them leave was better.)

And Kopaka going first as the second in command seemed better than Tahu IMO. But again, it definitely needs a comment added to clarify that canonically it was Pohatu. It's a bit of a stretch, but there's some reasons I can't comment on yet why it makes sense for this story. :ziplip:



TL -- Maybe "mental training"? I like mental, anyways. Exercises... makes it sound like it's just to make them smarter. That's part of it but it's also about the morality of the tough decisions. Training seems closer to that, but not quite clear... I dunno. Really, mind training is probably clear enough. And glad to see you got the reason for the deviation.

Well, it's probably something like how even cryogenics won't necessarily preserve you perfectly; you can still get freezer burn. Plus, we know the canisters malfunctioned, so normally that probably wouldn't happen. (They were supposed to stay in stasis indefinitely, after all.)

Yeah, forgot about the mask color. Fixed.

Edited by bonesiii, May 28 2014 - 09:36 AM.

  • 1

#75 Offline ALVIS

ALVIS
  • Members
  • Flying Force!

  • 10-January 09
  • 2,411 posts
  •  

Posted May 28 2014 - 04:40 PM

Chapter 13:
 

They glanced at each other, a look of surprise on Tahu's face... and a face on Kopaka's head.

I'm not sure what this sentence means. It strikes me as slightly funny, but I'm not sure that's what the author intended.
 
Also that ending sequence of the Mata being put to sleep out and out contradicts the Swamp of Secrets protrayal. The changes in the dialogue sequence are stomachable, but reaaallly...
 

It had taken months, but the last of the Avohkah had been defeated.

Hours instead of months? :P
 

"Well...great,"said Lewa. "It's got to be better than that dimension-hop we took to get here."

Somebody's missing a dimension-jump. :shrugs:
 

Gali hurled a water burst at an incoming avokah. The creature struck the water dead-on. Exhausted, the Toa of Water looked around, but there were no more of the sapient lightening bolts to be found. The battle was finally over.

This is a mild point, but Gali doesn't have any compunction about "killing" that lightning bolt. You can argue that the avohkah wasn't alive...if there aliveness (and even sapience!) wasn't comfirmed in the next sentence. I could use this to make the case that the Toa Code was introduced later, but it's more of a subjective call. The Nynrah Ghost blasters aren't contradicted directly - if that's what those were? - except that they were invented by the Nyrnah Ghosts (was that even an organization at this time? :shrugs:)
 
(FTR, the battle with the avohkah is Swamp of Secrets page 92 - 98, and 109- 118, if anyone's curious. I note this because this book does chronology schizo between this and the 2008 KN battle, which makes it a difficult nav. )
 
This throws this entire sequence into question. My suggestion is to make a minor edit to indicate how long the battle was, and then make a couple more to indicate dimensional travel along the journey there, and possibly disregard the last thing. If you really wanted to fix it 100% I would have Koronga meet them in Karda Nui and get acquainted with them during the months-long battle (but it's your story, your call). 
 
Hope this helps. :shrugs:

 

Tahu and Kopaka: I definitely interpreted it as a joke. As far as I can tell, it's referring to Kopaka's tendency to display no emotion whatsoever. I thought it was funny, at least.

 

book comparisons: To be fair, I don't think bonesiii has access to most of the BIONICLE books, so some discrepancies can be permitted.

 

(Speaking of which, bones, someone was kind enough to upload the books page-by-page on Dropbox, if you're interested.)

 

EDIT: Agh, bones is such a ninja that he posted Chapter 14 while I was composing this post. I guess I'll post a review later, then.


Edited by Yaldabaoth, May 28 2014 - 04:42 PM.

  • 2
"You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant."
 
-- Harlan Ellison
 
Short Stories:
 
LAST DESTINY, starring an Agori and a Turaga
 
DESCENDANT, starring Kraata-Kal and Makuta Teridax
AN EVEN EXCHANGE, starring the Makuta of Stelt
THE END OF THE BROTHERHOOD, starring Tobduk and Makuta Chirox

#76 Offline fishers64

fishers64
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Members
  • Rahkshi Unleashed

  • 05-July 10
  • 6,000 posts
  •  

Posted May 28 2014 - 08:16 PM

fishers -- What happened with this chapter gets a bit complicated, but ultimately it happened for reasons I can't entirely reveal, but TL summed up in his post; Koronga's getting involved "changed" things. I wrote it first without remembering that there was a detailed official version, as at the time I was working off the timeline, but it was intended to be like the scene with the Ice Lord at the energized protodermis well. The reader is meant to understand that whatever Koronga is directly involved with is non-canon, whether or not a canon version is made (unless, ideally, I specify otherwise), even though the vast majority of the time I try to stick as closely as possible to canon here.

At this point, I'll throw it in the 5%. Again, I didn't have trouble with the dialogue sequence being altered - but I looked it up after reading to strengthen my memory of the canon dialogue sequence, and that's when I saw the other stuff.

Intriguing explanation, though. :shrugs:

 

Now does this mean this is a totally different universe from canon? Not necessarily -- the Toa's flashback to this scene was part of a series of visions given to Takanuva to tell the past to him. We assume when we read the story that these are entirely truthful, but it's possible Helryx wanted to keep the real story a secret, and told instead what probably would have happened had Koronga not been involved. Obviously this is not the canon intent, so I would leave it up to the interpretation of the reader whether this is the case or if this is a different universe.

Okay...Although why the Order would want to conceal the involvement of this particular Matoran is confusing. However you have hinted that his actions might not be completely straight later, so I suppose it's possible.
 

-Its happening fairly quickly seemed to make more sense to me, though come to think of it there is an edit that could make it more ambiguous I could do. The Avohkah are portrayed as going out of their way to attack, and being deadly, and in such numbers that it would take months to stop them all -- yet the canon has the Matoran actually still living in Karda Nui. It makes more sense to me if the Avohkah appear as a side effect of the Codrex and underlying tech being finished and hooked up, and attack the Av-Matoran as they are already leaving. Otherwise you'd think the Matoran would already be all dead.

I thought the Matoran were living in Karda Nui in order to prepare the area, and it would take a certain amount of time (months?) to do that. Even if the Avokah appeared as a result of that, if the Matoran do one thing in preparation, that could spawn like ten of them, thus they would need defense throughout the whole process. But that's my interpretation. :shrugs:
 

-You didn't mention this, but there's also a "peer out a hatch" moment in the canon portrayal that seems completely contradictory with everything else we know about the Codrex's design (there's only one possible exit, other than maybe something underground as I theorized here, and it's not at all like a hatch), and they looked at the energy storm from inside while it was forming (plus the storm hasn't hit there yet, even though it's supposed to radiate from the outer surface). (2008 seems to have had a lot of major contradictions like this, in fact, way more than usual. In almost every part of it I had to choose between several different contradictory things, though few were as bad as this one. Again it's a detail consistent with the "Takanuva was given a fib or legend" explanation.)

I thought that was a window, not a hatch. Anyway, I would rescue this contradiction by having the energy storm form in the power conduit and then spread out to KN, and then enter the room the Toa were in last. Like the storm comes from the outside of the Codrex, the surface, and then goes inside last. :)

But this is the wrong forum for that. :P Anyway, most of this reasoning makes sense, and I don't know all your reasons. Fair's fair. 
 
@Yalda: bones said that he reviewed the books before/while writing this. He also said that he wanted this to be 95% canon accurate. I can't read minds. The only way to know whether it was an honest mistake or intentional is to identify the canon discrepancy and start typing. If it was a mistake, then I want to give him the opportunity to fix it. I tried to word my post so I didn't step on the author's toes if it was intentional, which it was here. 
 
I'm also an evil storyline theorist who wants to know "if intentional, why". :evilgrin: 
 
I'm probably reading a little too much into your wording here, but if I see errors within a certain margin of reason I'm going to post them. Anyone got a problem with that?
 
Chapter 14: I liked this chapter. The Coliseum EP stash is a source of mild intrigue for me.
 

Judging by the emotional indicator, it seemed to be one of Mata Nui's favorite locations.

I'm surprised. :P


If I saw, for example, Mata Nui's positive emotional indicators start attaching to highly negative events, like a traffic accident or even a murder, then I would know he was on a very dark road.

Ussal Crab pileups are highly dangerous. :no:
 
I interpreted the Glatorian pilots in couple of places as being awake during Mata Nui's mission, but I remember that someone said they were in stasis for the trip. I'll have to look it up to be sure, but the only official source didn't seem to speak to them beyond saying that they were dead. (it's only an intrigue point, I wouldn't count it as an error, and then I'd handwave it under "Koronga changes" explanation. Yeesh...)


Edited by fishers64, May 28 2014 - 11:31 PM.

  • 0

16028406952_a8c31f0bfe.jpg15838451978_fa70afcd66_m.jpg


#77 Offline NuvaTube

NuvaTube
  • Members
  • Toa

  • 05-March 13
  • 132 posts
  •  

Posted May 29 2014 - 05:08 AM

"the number of different powers that could be produced by these means was infinite."

 

Umm...why infinite? I see no reason for that to be the case. "Pratically infinite" or something like that would be fine, but why would it actually be infinite? The number of combinations that could be produced would be limited by the number of Protodermis molecules and the total of their different possible configurations. Like DNA, there's an awful lot that is is theoretically possible, but there are limits to how many different configurations DNA has that could be calculated.

 

If you don't count a space limit to the stored information, and just add more and more DNA/Protodermic Code, then you can continue to add loads more information, but this would still surely be limited by the amount of available Protodermis in the Universe. I don't really see why I should accept infinite possible powers as opposed to just "higher than anything could reasonably count".

 

You might find this video interesting. It's sorta relevant, but the point is it cites limits on information (also a great channel for anyone who's interested):

 

 

 

ALSO: "Had be been instructed in what he was to do?". You mean: "Had he been instructed..."


Edited by NuvaTube, May 29 2014 - 05:15 AM.

  • 2

#78 Offline Pohatu: Master of Stone

Pohatu: Master of Stone
  • Members
  • Emerging Mata Nuian Protector

  • 15-December 13
  • 1,651 posts
  •  

Posted May 29 2014 - 06:52 PM

Do those two Matoran carrying the crate touch the Energized Protodermis? I am now intrigued by them!


  • 0

If you use correct grammar in your posts (or try hard to), place this in your signature. Join Myst's campaign for correct grammar usage on BZPower!

:smilepohatunu: chimoru2015spinnie.gif Credit to Click for the awesome Bionicle 2015 spinnie!

rahkshitoa.pngCredit to Voxumo for the sprite of my self-moc!

Steal the Mask 3: You know you want the Mask of Life, too!

 

I also play TF2. My name is Pohatu Nuva, and I spraypaint the 2015 version of me in the spawn.


#79 Offline TLhikan

TLhikan
  • Members
  • Descending into Protodermis

  • 24-March 07
  • 1,012 posts
  •  

Posted May 30 2014 - 10:08 AM

Great work as usual. Mata Nui's thoughts are especially interesting; I wonder how "mature" his mind was at that state?

 

The idea of being able to study one's own body would be really cool (although to the best of my knowledge, I have no sentient creatures living inside me :P).


  • 0

"So I'm TL now?"
"Yeah, 'cuz if we said it the other way it'd have to be TLhiKHAAN!!"


#80 Online Teclax Master of Tech

Teclax Master of Tech
  • Members
  • Steely Visionary

  • 15-April 14
  • 358 posts

Posted May 30 2014 - 10:13 AM

@TLihikan

 

That would be cool.

 

@new chapters

 

Really cool, but aren't the shapeshifting orbs low on battery?


  • 1

 Kopaka, the coolest(Pun intended) Ko-Toa ever:

 Comic_Blizzard_Blade_In_Use.png                                              





1 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users