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Biggest Bionicle Dissapointment

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#81 Offline Snubby

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Posted Mar 13 2014 - 03:22 PM

I personally was not impressed by the ending of Bionicle and the whole Spherus Magna thing. When Lego introduced the 2009 storyline, I immediately liked it less than any of the other storylines, mainly because the end of Bionicle was in sight, and I would have liked it to end with the 6 Toa Nuva, and Lego introduced 12+ new characters that had nothing to do with any of the previous storyline. Then in 2010 they just confirmed that it would end without any of the 6 Nuva, save Tahu. In other words, it seemed like Lego just created a whole other line and slapped the Bionicle title on it. I think the 2008 Karda Nui storyline would have been the best Bionicle-ender, mainly because of "The final countdown", "Mata Nui's awakening" and "The Toa Nuva return".


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#82 Offline Tattorack

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Posted Mar 13 2014 - 04:35 PM

Hm, there really isn't anything else that stands out to me at the moment, but I'll end it with this: Movie Sidorak and Tuma. Enough said.

 

Yeah, I would've loved to see more fleshed out Tuma in B4.

The only time when I actually related to him was when reading the serial.


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#83 Offline Artakha's Nephew

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Posted Mar 13 2014 - 08:20 PM

I personally was not impressed by the ending of Bionicle and the whole Spherus Magna thing. When Lego introduced the 2009 storyline, I immediately liked it less than any of the other storylines, mainly because the end of Bionicle was in sight, and I would have liked it to end with the 6 Toa Nuva, and Lego introduced 12+ new characters that had nothing to do with any of the previous storyline. Then in 2010 they just confirmed that it would end without any of the 6 Nuva, save Tahu. In other words, it seemed like Lego just created a whole other line and slapped the Bionicle title on it. I think the 2008 Karda Nui storyline would have been the best Bionicle-ender, mainly because of "The final countdown", "Mata Nui's awakening" and "The Toa Nuva return".


I, for one, appreciated the backstory to the entire eight previous years which we got in 2009 immensely. I definitely did feel let down, though, by the choice made by the story team to wrap up the 2010 story with a fight between two giant robots, as every single sci-fi toyline had to end in that way. It just seemed like an extremely unoriginal way to end the line.

Edited by Artakha's Nephew, Mar 13 2014 - 08:21 PM.

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I can also be found under the username Artakha's Nephew on Solis Magna and BS01, and the Biomedia Project. Check out Solis Magna, as it is exactly what we need to maintain interest in Bionicle. Also, I highly recommend the hand-drawn comic Diaries of Destral, by Stroxx.

Check out the script for Mysterious Island, an adaption/reboot of the 2001 Bionicle story which I am writing. It's also a musical.

 

Bionicle is returning in 2015!


#84 Offline NickonAquaMagna

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Posted Mar 13 2014 - 08:56 PM

I personally was not impressed by the ending of Bionicle and the whole Spherus Magna thing. When Lego introduced the 2009 storyline, I immediately liked it less than any of the other storylines, mainly because the end of Bionicle was in sight, and I would have liked it to end with the 6 Toa Nuva, and Lego introduced 12+ new characters that had nothing to do with any of the previous storyline. Then in 2010 they just confirmed that it would end without any of the 6 Nuva, save Tahu. In other words, it seemed like Lego just created a whole other line and slapped the Bionicle title on it. I think the 2008 Karda Nui storyline would have been the best Bionicle-ender, mainly because of "The final countdown", "Mata Nui's awakening" and "The Toa Nuva return".

 

I personally liked being introduced to this "sister species" of the Matoran universe inhabitants. They had a great "back to basics" elemental look to them and, well, it was just neat that they were able to expand the Bionicle world like this. However, it's clear that they weren't able to give us enough time to see this world, and possibly others, fleshed out as Greg planned for them to be. I figured it would all end with a battle between Mata Nui in a new body versus Makuta in his old one at some point, but it was just too rushed.


 

I personally was not impressed by the ending of Bionicle and the whole Spherus Magna thing. When Lego introduced the 2009 storyline, I immediately liked it less than any of the other storylines, mainly because the end of Bionicle was in sight, and I would have liked it to end with the 6 Toa Nuva, and Lego introduced 12+ new characters that had nothing to do with any of the previous storyline. Then in 2010 they just confirmed that it would end without any of the 6 Nuva, save Tahu. In other words, it seemed like Lego just created a whole other line and slapped the Bionicle title on it. I think the 2008 Karda Nui storyline would have been the best Bionicle-ender, mainly because of "The final countdown", "Mata Nui's awakening" and "The Toa Nuva return".


I, for one, appreciated the backstory to the entire eight previous years which we got in 2009 immensely. I definitely did feel let down, though, by the choice made by the story team to wrap up the 2010 story with a fight between two giant robots, as every single sci-fi toyline had to end in that way. It just seemed like an extremely unoriginal way to end the line.

 

 

I just think there should've been more buildup... which there would've been, but, oh well.


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#85 Offline Artakha's Nephew

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Posted Mar 13 2014 - 09:15 PM

I just think there should've been more buildup... which there would've been, but, oh well.


Though there were certainly other ways that the story could have been concluded, a fight between Mata Nui and Teridax, each in a giant robot, was a quick way to solve the main conflict. It's clear how the idea was likely attractive to the rushed story team. All the same, I would have enjoyed some more buildup, as well as maybe having the agori and glatorian help to take down Teridax; or even the MU inhabitants inside of him.

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I can also be found under the username Artakha's Nephew on Solis Magna and BS01, and the Biomedia Project. Check out Solis Magna, as it is exactly what we need to maintain interest in Bionicle. Also, I highly recommend the hand-drawn comic Diaries of Destral, by Stroxx.

Check out the script for Mysterious Island, an adaption/reboot of the 2001 Bionicle story which I am writing. It's also a musical.

 

Bionicle is returning in 2015!


#86 Offline NickonAquaMagna

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Posted Mar 13 2014 - 09:31 PM

 

I just think there should've been more buildup... which there would've been, but, oh well.


Though there were certainly other ways that the story could have been concluded, a fight between Mata Nui and Teridax, each in a giant robot, was a quick way to solve the main conflict. It's clear how the idea was likely attractive to the rushed story team. All the same, I would have enjoyed some more buildup, as well as maybe having the agori and glatorian help to take down Teridax; or even the MU inhabitants inside of him.

 

 

I can see what you're saying, and it would've been nice to see the Matoran more involved on their end... but what's Mata Nui supposed to do? I mean... sure, maybe he could try to repossess his old body and kick Makuta back out, but that would be pretty contrived in itself. For a while, I was really looking forward to seeing Mata Nui actually FIGHT Makuta in a plausible way, for him to give Makuta payback himself. I know you think it's "dumb" rock 'em sock 'em junk, but, eh, it works for me.

 

Again... I think the failing of this is that there wasn't enough buildup. Yes, there should've been more time to see what the Toa Nuva and the others were up to inside Teridax... and there would've been. The final big battle should've been the payoff after a lot more world building an' whatnot, but it comes out of nowhere because it's so rushed. I don't think it would feel so dumb if it felt like it had been a long time coming.


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#87 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Mar 14 2014 - 01:06 AM

It's not so much a lack of buildup as too much of the wrong kind of buildup (due to the lack of knowledge of when it would end). I like, for the most part, how the end came out, but in the first part of 2009, I couldn't help but wonder sometimes things like "Why are we having half a year with Skrall as the only obvious threat?" and "Why would the Skrall just happen to be making such big moves right at this time?" Bara Magna should have been about Mata Nui landing there and exploring it through his eyes. The Skrall could have reacted to his presence perhaps and then made their big moves, etc. Then the end could have come at the same time it did, but it would have felt more natural IMO.

That doesn't solve all the problems with the end, but yeah.

I still do think even as numerous as the problems were, overall the giant robot fight and war and a lot of the other good points of Bara Magna redeemed the end. :) Almost all of them just came down to the set-based cause of sales leading to cancellation, and a different strategy than expected of why so early, to close on a still-relatively high note, which made sense. So, the problems with the end IMO were fairly minor and just things we had to take into account for a story that existed to sell sets. Most of the people upset with the end in my estimation were just kind of taking it for granted and just objecting to the fact alone that it ended, missing that it was clearly designed to function well with a beginning, middle, and end, as the struggle between Mata Nui and Makuta was how it started and could not go on forever.

And I always felt the timing of the end came just right. Should have had a movie, etc. but the timing made sense, storywise. I mean, how is Makuta gonna arrive "gradually", right? It was always a "Mata Nui had better get something together fast, he could come at any moment" kind of thing. It's just the tangential nature of the first half of 2009 that IMO led to most of the problems. (But I didn't really mind it. It was a good tangent, and if Bionicle was ever going to have one, that timing did make sense too. It's also really just an extended version of what had been done for three years prior -- spend some time with the people living at the place the heroes are about to come to, though most of those still felt more connected than this. I dunno.)

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#88 Offline The Kumquat Alchemist

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Posted Mar 15 2014 - 12:38 PM

My disappointment is that Greg and LEGO tried to go on with BIONICLE after 2010's finale, when upon retrospect it would have been better to wrap up loose ends, stop creating layer upon layer of plot twists, and call BIONICLE done.

 

The stories post-Spherus Magna's reconstruction felt fatiguing to read, what with their constant creating of loose ends. Greg's serials kept creating more questions than they answered, and those answers given didn't feel satisfying to me; plot twists were in abundance, and they weren't satisfying plot twists. The big reveal that Mata-Nui was a giant robot was outrageous, but a well-done plot twist; we've been getting hints about that ever since 2001, it all ties together quite nicely. But many of plot twists and questions brought up in the web serials felt underdeveloped and unnecessary. 

 

For example, in one of the older web serials, Gali discovers living beings within the Red Star. This plot twist creates more questions. Then those questions are sort-of-answered in later serials, only creating more questions and plot twists. And through all of those questions created and answered, I can't help but feel that these plot twists were thrown together on a whim, and that the simple explanation "The Red Star is a jetpack for Mata-Nui" would have been good enough and cleared up all questions behind the Red Star without creating any needless new ones.

 

Every single character doesn't have to have some secret, or mystery, or plot twist behind them. The Red Star can be just a jetpack, Velika can just be a normal matoran; BIONICLE could have ended with "And all those still living lived happily until they died" like the end of a particularly complicated story from the Arabian Nights.

 

I can accept that BIONICLE was inevitably going to get more complicated as it went on, but Greg really ought to have tried to cut back on the plot twists and questions created, that weren't directly relevant to BIONICLE's conclusion; at the very least he could have tried to wrap those already in existence up quickly when he'd been told of BIONICLE's pending end.


Edited by The Kumquat Alchemist, Mar 15 2014 - 12:50 PM.

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#89 Offline Yukiko

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Posted Mar 15 2014 - 01:23 PM

I'm kind of disappointed that there was no real following of what happened to the rest of the inhabitants of the Matoran Universe, but 2010 on was just a mess in my opinion.

 

The beginning of 2009. In almost every aspect. 

 

(Also I was never really offended by the gender-ratio thing, even though I'm the gender that's supposed to be offended. I suppose I'm just weird like that. :shrugs: Why this keeps coming up I have no idea...

 

...seeing as it makes no sense. I mean, there a bunch of stories with the majority of, if not all, female characters, and their are other stories with the majority of, if not all, male characters. That's part of the variety of story. Why must there be even proportions? *sigh*)

 

The issue, I think, is that stories with majorly female characters are considered "niche market" while stories with majorly male characters are mainstream.  Having one token female is considered to be "enough" for many mainstream releases (although you are seeing a turnaround.)  I don't know if you've ever read a certain essay regarding that (I can't link it here because of profanity).  And stories with more equal gender ratios hardly exist...

 

Having said that, BIONICLE does a lot of a better job than some other media, and there's no shame in loving it despite this.  The best way to reconcile this problem, for me, has always been through my writing and RPing.  I mean, in this year's BZPRPG we have an entire system of islands that basically forces people to play more female characters, so generally we get a lot of variety outside the archetypes.


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#90 Offline NickonAquaMagna

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Posted Mar 15 2014 - 04:04 PM

My disappointment is that Greg and LEGO tried to go on with BIONICLE after 2010's finale, when upon retrospect it would have been better to wrap up loose ends, stop creating layer upon layer of plot twists, and call BIONICLE done.

 

The stories post-Spherus Magna's reconstruction felt fatiguing to read, what with their constant creating of loose ends. Greg's serials kept creating more questions than they answered, and those answers given didn't feel satisfying to me; plot twists were in abundance, and they weren't satisfying plot twists. The big reveal that Mata-Nui was a giant robot was outrageous, but a well-done plot twist; we've been getting hints about that ever since 2001, it all ties together quite nicely. But many of plot twists and questions brought up in the web serials felt underdeveloped and unnecessary. 

 

For example, in one of the older web serials, Gali discovers living beings within the Red Star. This plot twist creates more questions. Then those questions are sort-of-answered in later serials, only creating more questions and plot twists. And through all of those questions created and answered, I can't help but feel that these plot twists were thrown together on a whim, and that the simple explanation "The Red Star is a jetpack for Mata-Nui" would have been good enough and cleared up all questions behind the Red Star without creating any needless new ones.

 

Every single character doesn't have to have some secret, or mystery, or plot twist behind them. The Red Star can be just a jetpack, Velika can just be a normal matoran; BIONICLE could have ended with "And all those still living lived happily until they died" like the end of a particularly complicated story from the Arabian Nights.

 

I can accept that BIONICLE was inevitably going to get more complicated as it went on, but Greg really ought to have tried to cut back on the plot twists and questions created, that weren't directly relevant to BIONICLE's conclusion; at the very least he could have tried to wrap those already in existence up quickly when he'd been told of BIONICLE's pending end.

 

I think Greg was trying to build Velika up as the new main villain of the story, but... yeah...


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#91 Offline Tattorack

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Posted Mar 15 2014 - 04:11 PM

I think Greg was trying to build Velika up as the new main villain of the story, but... yeah...

 

That would've actually been quite cool... albeit a bit on the "facing your corrupt creator" cliché side...


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#92 Offline JAG18

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Posted Mar 15 2014 - 04:54 PM

 

I think Greg was trying to build Velika up as the new main villain of the story, but... yeah...

 

That would've actually been quite cool... albeit a bit on the "facing your corrupt creator" cliché side...

 

I second that (the been quite cool part); It would have been great if Velika said, "Prepare to meet your maker" at some point.  


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#93 Offline Glenfoxx

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Posted Mar 15 2014 - 07:31 PM

I think what has been said previously in this topic pretty much sums up my big can of worms that I have with Bionicle. Even though I love it with it's faults.
And yes, in regards to the movies, I get it. Budget constraints, the availability of 3D animation, and many other factors contributed to their quality. And I very much admire the effort that was put into each one and how Bionicle was brought to life, which was a very novel concept for me back in the day before my teenage years.
That said, Man…The movies needed work. Well…no, maybe not. Its just that they feel like they were geared towards three year olds (sarcasm), and I quote a line from WoS that still makes me shudder, "Because thats what friends do."
Said in a cringe worthy awe-shucks deep voice.
You can still make a lovable decent show without resorting to poorly written screenplay and sometimes bland or vapid dialogue. And thats really all of the Bio movies problems. The writing for the shows just feels so contrived or at least so basic as to practically be in a Dora the Explorer episode (more sarcasm). I can forgive many of their faults (their are many) but this is inexcusable.

And I know I shouldn't judge a movie based on others, but even if you have a budget of ten bucks you can make a good screenplay with well-developed characters, no cliches, and simple yet meaningful dialogue.
That said, I do appreciate...okay, I'll admit, I like, the movies for different reasons. LoMN is my fav simple because, for some reason that I cannot pinpoint, everything flows together to form a halfway enjoyable show in the grand scheme of cinema. The same cannot be said for MoL, which is so basic in animation and writing that I cannot watch it.
WoS I enjoy partially for the same reasons I can stand LoMN.
I cannot critique Legend Reborn because I've only watched bits and pieces.
So, if the writing and dialogue had been more on par with, and I hesitate to bring it up, but if it had been next to Avatar the Last Airbenders (The TV Show, not the :censored: abomination of a movie) quality, I'd be happy.
Animation wise? The first was unwatchable for me. Sorry. :shrugs:
The next ones were good with the animation but…and here is a really big beef of mine…they were edited so darn fast in places. This may be a personal observation, but in LoMN especially, when Toa Lihkan meets with Vakama and they converse, the camera is so quick and never lingers to catch the mood of the sequence. The animation hardly is subtle to convey emotion, and the dialogue is so rushed that it degrades the whole thing.
Just my take.
It goes without saying that Sidorak is one of the lamest villains in a kids cartoon to ever grace the silver screen. Roodaka? Well…she had a good and obvious motive, so she was a step above. Him. She was more Interesting.
Thats enough of my picking on the movies. For the record, Love the music.
Anything else that I can put my two cents in?
How it all ended. Duh. No contest. Biggest letdown ever. Period. No lie. Ever. Ever. Biggest…
And yes, the horrible realization that the Nuva's limbs were not articulated haha.

Greg Farshteys writing. I have nothing against him and all, and I understand Bionicle literature doesn't have to be Shakespeare, but……yikes. Here's what it sounds like (And yes, I'm making fun  :P)
Blah Blah Gibberish Name Blah Stereotype Blah Blah Action Sequence Blah Blah History Lesson Blah Gibberish Name…
It gets old. Except Tales of the Masks. I love it. Okay, confession time, it's the only Bio Book I've read. So I'm making fun of the serials, not really the books. And for the record, the serials have their moments. I'm just not impressed by them.

You know it's kinda funny, When Bionicle was going, I never thought twice about this stuff. Truth be told, I was hooked on it and devoured everything that came out about Bionicle. Oh well. Age does things to you.
So in closing…As I get older and more senile and cranky, I find more to yell about with Bionicle. But what can I say? I like her and she likes me. A match made in heaven.
That said, my ending personal dissapointments are…(takes a shaky rage induced breath)...Romance isn't canon. MNOLG isn't canon. Alternate Dimensions. Tribal Spirituality turns to Grand Science...
NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!AAAAUUUUGGHHH!!!!!
Okay I'm done with my humble opinion. Off to make a Fan Fic. :wakeup:
Peace. ^_^

 

 


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#94 Offline The Kumquat Alchemist

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Posted Mar 16 2014 - 09:30 AM

 

My disappointment is that Greg and LEGO tried to go on with BIONICLE after 2010's finale, when upon retrospect it would have been better to wrap up loose ends, stop creating layer upon layer of plot twists, and call BIONICLE done.

 

The stories post-Spherus Magna's reconstruction felt fatiguing to read, what with their constant creating of loose ends. Greg's serials kept creating more questions than they answered, and those answers given didn't feel satisfying to me; plot twists were in abundance, and they weren't satisfying plot twists. The big reveal that Mata-Nui was a giant robot was outrageous, but a well-done plot twist; we've been getting hints about that ever since 2001, it all ties together quite nicely. But many of plot twists and questions brought up in the web serials felt underdeveloped and unnecessary. 

 

For example, in one of the older web serials, Gali discovers living beings within the Red Star. This plot twist creates more questions. Then those questions are sort-of-answered in later serials, only creating more questions and plot twists. And through all of those questions created and answered, I can't help but feel that these plot twists were thrown together on a whim, and that the simple explanation "The Red Star is a jetpack for Mata-Nui" would have been good enough and cleared up all questions behind the Red Star without creating any needless new ones.

 

Every single character doesn't have to have some secret, or mystery, or plot twist behind them. The Red Star can be just a jetpack, Velika can just be a normal matoran; BIONICLE could have ended with "And all those still living lived happily until they died" like the end of a particularly complicated story from the Arabian Nights.

 

I can accept that BIONICLE was inevitably going to get more complicated as it went on, but Greg really ought to have tried to cut back on the plot twists and questions created, that weren't directly relevant to BIONICLE's conclusion; at the very least he could have tried to wrap those already in existence up quickly when he'd been told of BIONICLE's pending end.

 

I think Greg was trying to build Velika up as the new main villain of the story, but... yeah...

 

 

Who knows? If Greg's output of web serials had stayed consistent (had not stopped), and if he'd started planning on an evil GB Velika some years ago and dropped some hints beforehand so that it would all fit into place upon the "big reveal" like with MN's reveal at the end of '08, I'd be fine with it. But from what I understand of Greg's plans for Velika, it all seems contrived in such an artificial way, with no thought behind how much longer he'd be able to keep up the web serials, or whether we really needed many more plot twists.

 

The only unique trait of Velika's (pre-GB reveal by word of Greg) is his odd tendency to speak in riddles and parables, but that's hardly what I'd call a fair hint towards the nature Greg claims he has; living on Voya-Nui for a thousand years is just cause for insanity.

 

As things are, I feel compelled to ignore everything post-Spherus Magna's re-creation just to keep sane, it is so confusing and loose-ended. I also can't stand the thought of Tren Krom's death. Sure, he's not on the scale of Cthulhu or Hermaeus Mora, but I have an affinity for tentacled, madness-inducing things with great knowledge.


Edited by The Kumquat Alchemist, Mar 16 2014 - 09:38 AM.

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#95 Offline UngluedBike

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Posted Mar 16 2014 - 10:52 AM

Legends of Mata nui.


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#96 Offline Phovos

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Posted Mar 16 2014 - 11:52 AM

I'm surprised no one mentioned the Kohlii fight between Takanuva and Makuta Teridax in the first Bionicle movie. We're waiting to see the hero and the villain slug it out and they just play sports. Nonetheless, all the Bionicle films were beautiful to look at, even if they made zero sense to an outside viewer.

 

Another disappointment for me is not the ending of the story of Bionicle, but the tens of hundreds of different plot twists and backstories and new characters that were not tied up or were simply invented to fill the background. In 2001-2005, everything was fairly simple and straight forward, with the backstories increasing through 2005, but after that, the story became more and more complicated to the point that I could not follow any more!

 

Also, the fact that (some) Bohrok are just mutated, reprogrammed Av-Matoran. That's just stupid. They have barely anything in common, they're almost polar opposites. Matoran are living beings, creators, while Bohrok are cold, mechanical destroyers.


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#97 Offline NickonAquaMagna

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Posted Mar 16 2014 - 12:05 PM

I'm surprised no one mentioned the Kohlii fight between Takanuva and Makuta Teridax in the first Bionicle movie. We're waiting to see the hero and the villain slug it out and they just play sports. Nonetheless, all the Bionicle films were beautiful to look at, even if they made zero sense to an outside viewer.

 

Another disappointment for me is not the ending of the story of Bionicle, but the tens of hundreds of different plot twists and backstories and new characters that were not tied up or were simply invented to fill the background. In 2001-2005, everything was fairly simple and straight forward, with the backstories increasing through 2005, but after that, the story became more and more complicated to the point that I could not follow any more!

 

Also, the fact that (some) Bohrok are just mutated, reprogrammed Av-Matoran. That's just stupid. They have barely anything in common, they're almost polar opposites. Matoran are living beings, creators, while Bohrok are cold, mechanical destroyers.

 

To me, it's more like the Matoran are Mata Nui's red blood cells, the Bohrok are his white blood cells, and the Toa are antibodies.


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#98 Offline Phovos

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Posted Mar 16 2014 - 01:21 PM

To me, it's more like the Matoran are Mata Nui's red blood cells, the Bohrok are his white blood cells, and the Toa are antibodies.


Actually, if you're going with the body metaphor, I'd say the Toa would be white blood cells, stopping evil, Bohrok would be akin to the digestive and urinary system, getting rid of the waste.

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#99 Offline Tattorack

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Posted Mar 16 2014 - 01:27 PM

You can still make a lovable decent show without resorting to poorly written screenplay and sometimes bland or vapid dialogue. And thats really all of the Bio movies problems. The writing for the shows just feels so contrived or at least so basic as to practically be in a Dora the Explorer episode (more sarcasm). I can forgive many of their faults (their are many) but this is inexcusable.

And I know I shouldn't judge a movie based on others, but even if you have a budget of ten bucks you can make a good screenplay with well-developed characters, no cliches, and simple yet meaningful dialogue.

 

What I have been saying not all too many posts ago (not the same way, but...).

Apparently nobody agrees with that...


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#100 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Mar 16 2014 - 01:40 PM

No, most people do agree, T -- but as was pointed out repeatedly at the time, younger kids tend to actually prefer the kinds of movies Bionicle had. You just have to take them with that in mind and sort of mentally translate what it would be if it was aimed at older kids and/or adults. :)


Edited by bonesiii, Mar 16 2014 - 07:11 PM.

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#101 Offline PrismWind

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Posted Mar 16 2014 - 06:27 PM

I liked the movies...
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#102 Offline Katuko

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Posted Mar 16 2014 - 06:39 PM

I'm surprised no one mentioned the Kohlii fight between Takanuva and Makuta Teridax in the first Bionicle movie. We're waiting to see the hero and the villain slug it out and they just play sports. Nonetheless, all the Bionicle films were beautiful to look at, even if they made zero sense to an outside viewer.

To quote one motivator that was made of that moment: "Let's play football to see if you die or not." It was pretty silly, but at least the movie made it look more dangerous than regular Kolhii. Pillars were destroyed. :P
 

Also, the fact that (some) Bohrok are just mutated, reprogrammed Av-Matoran. That's just stupid. They have barely anything in common, they're almost polar opposites. Matoran are living beings, creators, while Bohrok are cold, mechanical destroyers.


"The people of the world are builders. But look into their hearts... and you will find that they also have the power to destroy."
- Makuta, MNOG


But I agree once more: A kind of silly way of doing it, considering that would mean there are potentially thousands of Av-Matoran who were created as biomechs just to transform into robots later, and who then had to move from the Universe Core and up into the nests outside of Metru Nui's dome.

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#103 Offline Phovos

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Posted Mar 17 2014 - 06:39 AM

To quote one motivator that was made of that moment: "Let's play football to see if you die or not." It was pretty silly, but at least the movie made it look more dangerous than regular Kolhii. Pillars were destroyed. :P


Yeah... Pillars... I always thought they were the glass-like containers the Rahkshi were birthed from or something, not really stone or anything particularly strong. But the whole scene is still pretty silly. There's also the fact that the Toa Nuva had a bit of Bystander Syndrome, but you can't have everything now.

"The people of the world are builders. But look into their hearts... and you will find that they also have the power to destroy."
- Makuta, MNOG


But I agree once more: A kind of silly way of doing it, considering that would mean there are potentially thousands of Av-Matoran who were created as biomechs just to transform into robots later, and who then had to move from the Universe Core and up into the nests outside of Metru Nui's dome.


Nice quote there. I just felt it's a very round-about way of doing things that was really unnecessary. There are thousands upon thousands of Bohrok (as it's implied) but there never seemed to be many Av-Matoran, so the whole process makes no sense, even more so as this only happens to Av-Matoran, not other types.

Unrelated note, the Bohrok are just asking to be re-awakened or something.

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#104 Offline Tattorack

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Posted Mar 17 2014 - 07:05 AM

No, most people do agree, T -- but as was pointed out repeatedly at the time, younger kids tend to actually prefer the kinds of movies Bionicle had. You just have to take them with that in mind and sort of mentally translate what it would be if it was aimed at older kids and/or adults. :)

 

I know, Bionicle is intended for 6+, but the story somehow contains a lot of mature stuff, and considering that a 6 year old wouldn't actually understand much from it...

Likely hte main reason Bio got cancelled in the first place...

The writing could still have been a lot better, I have been entertained by movies intended for much younger ages before.

 

I'm surprised no one mentioned the Kohlii fight between Takanuva and Makuta Teridax in the first Bionicle movie. We're waiting to see the hero and the villain slug it out and they just play sports.

 

I didn't understand it was a Kohlii match until many years later when I read about the event ^^;


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#105 Offline Katuko

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Posted Mar 17 2014 - 07:08 AM

Yeah... Pillars... I always thought they were the glass-like containers the Rahkshi were birthed from or something, not really stone or anything particularly strong. But the whole scene is still pretty silly. There's also the fact that the Toa Nuva had a bit of Bystander Syndrome, but you can't have everything now.

If nothing else, Pohatu should have been able to make the stone door a non-issue with just a small application of his power.

Unrelated note, the Bohrok are just asking to be re-awakened or something.

Krakua were like "lol, sonic signal" and then they appeared... from below Metru Nui and right in the middle of the big battle that was going on. I found this questionable too, as keeping a Bohrok nest under Metru does not seem to make much sense if they are never supposed be used anywhere but the surface, where there were already nests as well.

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#106 Offline fishers64

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Posted Mar 17 2014 - 12:20 PM

 

Yeah... Pillars... I always thought they were the glass-like containers the Rahkshi were birthed from or something, not really stone or anything particularly strong. But the whole scene is still pretty silly. There's also the fact that the Toa Nuva had a bit of Bystander Syndrome, but you can't have everything now.

If nothing else, Pohatu should have been able to make the stone door a non-issue with just a small application of his power.

And waste a perfectly good opportunity to smash Makuta's armor to bits?


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#107 Offline Artakha's Nephew

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Posted Mar 17 2014 - 01:56 PM

No, most people do agree, T -- but as was pointed out repeatedly at the time, younger kids tend to actually prefer the kinds of movies Bionicle had. You just have to take them with that in mind and sort of mentally translate what it would be if it was aimed at older kids and/or adults. :)

I know, Bionicle is intended for 6+, but the story somehow contains a lot of mature stuff, and considering that a 6 year old wouldn't actually understand much from it...
Likely hte main reason Bio got cancelled in the first place...
The writing could still have been a lot better, I have been entertained by movies intended for much younger ages before.


One of my largest issues with the films was that they didn't seem to be able to decide on their target audience. Every one of the films was a mix of cheesy dialogue, a simplistic plot, and plenty of light-hearted battles where the hero is guaranteed to win from the first second, and yet each film still had dark themes and characters with complex motives for their "good" or "evil" actions. Of course, the films took their story from the main storyline of their release year, but the target audience confusion really became a problem for the entire storyline, especially in the later years of the line.

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Check out the script for Mysterious Island, an adaption/reboot of the 2001 Bionicle story which I am writing. It's also a musical.

 

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#108 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Mar 17 2014 - 03:16 PM

I know, Bionicle is intended for 6+, but the story somehow contains a lot of mature stuff

In case you don't know, the average viewer of the movies was younger than of the books and other sources. :) That's the reason the movies feel more immature. That's what I was driving at, sorry if it was unclear.


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#109 Offline Matoro1992

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Posted Mar 17 2014 - 03:38 PM

My biggest disappointment was the storyline/sets of 2008-2010. I thought Bionicle just dragged on after 2007.

Sets:
They were a rehash of 2006/2007 set designs. It didn’t have it’s own style compared to 2001/2003, 2004/2005.

Storyline:
-Disappointing that Makuta still goes frolicking around after Matoro sacrificed himself to save Mata Nui.
-The whole robot Mata Nui thing was weird. When I saw the island of Mata Nui just getting obliterated (from Borhok and Mata Nui's face) I had mixed feelings.
-Toa Nuva turned to Mistinka L


However, with all of this, the Glatorian as a whole separate concept was cool. I guess. You could say that I prefer the Mata Nui and Metru Nui storyline a lot more, and which I do a whole bunch. I felt that the 2006/2007 storyline would be it’s grand finale. But it kept going after that.

I still feel that it would be all right if Bionicle simply ended in 2007, and then Bionicle can reboot once again. But focusing on Bara Magna, or any other Magna later on.

For the record, I do not dis bionicle. I luv it! ^_^


Edited by bonesiii, Mar 17 2014 - 03:54 PM.
Edited a description of questionable appropriateness. -bones

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#110 Online Yaldabaoth

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Posted Mar 17 2014 - 04:47 PM

..."Frolicking"?

 

:P


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#111 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Mar 17 2014 - 05:06 PM

-Disappointing that Makuta still goes frolicking around after Matoro sacrificed himself to save Mata Nui.

*is confused* Matoro's sacrifice, as you said, was to save Mata Nui's life, not imprison, kill, defeat, or even affect Makuta. Why wouldn't Makuta still be 'frolicking' (sp?? :P) around after that?

 

Also, there were different styles to the 2008 and 2009 sets. I presume, though, you meant to imply the body designs of the Toa; agreed there. The Makuta and Matoran were different, though, and the stronger elemental styling in 2009 was new.


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#112 Offline Matoro1992

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Posted Mar 17 2014 - 05:33 PM

 

-Disappointing that Makuta still goes frolicking around after Matoro sacrificed himself to save Mata Nui.

*is confused* Matoro's sacrifice, as you said, was to save Mata Nui's life, not imprison, kill, defeat, or even affect Makuta. Why wouldn't Makuta still be 'frolicking' (sp?? :P) around after that?

 

Also, there were different styles to the 2008 and 2009 sets. I presume, though, you meant to imply the body designs of the Toa; agreed there. The Makuta and Matoran were different, though, and the stronger elemental styling in 2009 was new.

 

Well of course I kind of knew that Makuta wouldn't get permanently defeated. But I thought it was disappointing that as soon as Mata Nui rose, Makuta goes trolling having another trick up his sleeve. Yeah, Makuta is frolicking! 

As for the sets for 2008-2010, yeah that is what I meant that Toa body designs were pretty familiar. Don't get me wrong, I thought the vehicle designs was epic! Some of the larger sets were as challenging of a build, since the rahi back in 01.  


Edited by Matoro1992, Mar 17 2014 - 05:34 PM.

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#113 Offline Katuko

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Posted Mar 17 2014 - 05:39 PM

*is confused* Matoro's sacrifice, as you said, was to save Mata Nui's life, not imprison, kill, defeat, or even affect Makuta. Why wouldn't Makuta still be 'frolicking' (sp?? :P) around after that?

He probably hoped for the events of the vision that Karzahni gave Makuta, where the entire Brotherhood is immediately wiped out once Mata Nui got back in business. It's a somewhat typical fantasy trope - once the heroes solve the big plot (in this case, saving Mata Nui through personal sacrifice) the villains fall quickly. In a way, they did -- the battle of Metru Nui ended soon afterwards, and the Brotherhood did vanish.

I like Teridax taking over, though, it was a nice way for the villain to get back at them all. The reveal of Giant Robot Mata Nui was done well. I can see why what came after wasn't quite as satisfying, though. It's been mentioned many times that the story was somewhat on its way downwards, and that the sudden shift to the Bara Magna setting did not truly succeed in its purpose despite being an OK setting in and of itself.


EDIT: Oh, there he is speaking for himself, sneaking in while I'm typing. :P

Edited by Katuko, Mar 17 2014 - 05:40 PM.

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#114 Offline Artakha's Nephew

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Posted Mar 17 2014 - 05:49 PM

Well of course I kind of knew that Makuta wouldn't get permanently defeated. But I thought it was disappointing that as soon as Mata Nui rose, Makuta goes trolling having another trick up his sleeve. Yeah, Makuta is frolicking!


I thought that the story received a valuable dash of realism when Teridax won at the end of 2008. He hadn't ever been able to really "win" against the Toa before; he was only able to manage to postpone his own defeat before the end of 2008, and he accomplished the final goal of his plan, something that most villains of stories meant for kids are never able to do. Persons with cruel or inconsiderate intentions sometimes do get their way in real life, even if it's only temporary. Unlike so many villains before him, Teridax was able to transcend the limitations of the stock character on which he was based.


Edited by Artakha's Nephew, Mar 17 2014 - 11:18 PM.

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Check out the script for Mysterious Island, an adaption/reboot of the 2001 Bionicle story which I am writing. It's also a musical.

 

Bionicle is returning in 2015!


#115 Offline Zestanor

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Posted Mar 17 2014 - 07:50 PM

It's sort of disappointing to think about how niche most of Bionicle was. What was the one thing most people could tell you about Bionicle story? Mask of Light. One movie. Then you have the other movies, then the comics Then, you have the books, and I can't imagine those were blockbusters. But that's only scratching the surface! You have all the interlocking serials to tell the crucial side events! But who's actually reading and comprehending those? The users of BZPower? Eventually Greg didn't even try to hide it anymore; he started offering "canonization" contests to us. It came to the point where, if you really wanted to grasp the storyline, you were on BZP. And that's great, but usually you don't need to go to the niche fan message board to clear up major questions about a series' story. So I guess the big disappointment was the accessibility of the story; I see a grand fantasy, but I don't see enough people enjoying it with me.


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#116 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Mar 17 2014 - 08:47 PM

He probably hoped for the events of the vision that Karzahni gave Makuta, where the entire Brotherhood is immediately wiped out once Mata Nui got back in business. It's a somewhat typical fantasy trope - once the heroes solve the big plot (in this case, saving Mata Nui through personal sacrifice) the villains fall quickly. In a way, they did -- the battle of Metru Nui ended soon afterwards, and the Brotherhood did vanish.

Ah. So you're saying, probably he meant about the timing of the big sacrifice. (I guess his reply is along those lines.) Yeah, I noticed that myself, in my retelling I end a ten-chapter "Part" with the awakening, similar to the ending of 2008, and it does seem awkward to have Ignika's sacrifice there juxtaposed against a far more climactic one by Matoro earlier. Still, I think it works for three [four...] main reasons:

 

1) Better realism in avoiding the trope, since there's really no obvious causal connection between Mata Nui's life being saved and bad guys quickly falling.

 

2) The giant robot reveal and takeover reveal (and for my purposes, forget the reveal parts of this which obviously in my retelling can't be surprises... but the conflict surrounding the start of his reign) more than make up for it.

 

3) This doesn't really make up for it completely on its own, but I like that the character that 2006-2008 revolves around, Ignika, had to see Matoro's sacrifice to be inspired to make a lesser sacrifice himself. He starts out as apparently just a legend of a powerful mask, then we realize he's alive, then this builds to a full maturity in that sacrifice.

 

[Edit: Oh, and a fourth: Even with all the foreshadowing, I feel Matoro's sacrifice is made even more powerful by feeling "out of place." If you save all the big moves for big ends, they just feel obligatory rather than powerful. Though... if you make a rule to avoid it, then avoiding it can become obligatory.... I dunno.]


Edited by bonesiii, Mar 17 2014 - 08:51 PM.

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#117 Offline Katuko

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Posted Mar 18 2014 - 05:08 PM

Even with all the foreshadowing, I feel Matoro's sacrifice is made even more powerful by feeling "out of place." If you save all the big moves for big ends, they just feel obligatory rather than powerful.


I agree, since in this case the Toa were prepared to break the Cord, sink Voya Nui, and then spend some time in finding a place to use the Mask of Life. Then while they are still traveling to their destination, we may apply a quote from Portal 2:

"Surprise! We're doing it now."

And of course Matoro then has to scramble to fix things ASAP without having any clue about what he's doing, which seems far more realistic than if Mata Nui had been on the typical movie/game timing of there always being 2 seconds left on the bomb so the hero can do his thing.

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#118 Offline Phovos

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Posted Mar 20 2014 - 04:20 AM

Was Matoro really properly mourned or anything by anyone apart from the Toa Inika/Mahri?

 

I suppose another disappointment is that a LOT of Bionicle fans don't really understand the plot at all. Yes, Mask of Light, Rahkshi bad guys, Bohrok rolling into balls, Toa and Matoran and stuff, but past that, you're lucky to find someone who can name which Toa died to save the universe, let alone the huge amount of detail behind that.


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#119 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Mar 20 2014 - 04:26 PM

Was Matoro really properly mourned or anything by anyone apart from the Toa Inika/Mahri?

I don't know how you define proper, but I'm 95% sure there was a memorial service for him in the Coliseum itself. I don't have the book handy at the moment to check, but I thought that's what I read when reviewing it recently. I just tried to see if BS01 confirms it, they don't on the pages I happened to check, but there are various confirmations of other individuals mourning him and doing various things to honor him like making a statue etc.

 

Regardless of what's actually confirmed, I don't see why we would expect that people didn't mourn him as they realistically would depending on how well they knew him, etc.

 

Edit: Here it is, on the Coliseum page:

 

http://biosector01.c...ex.php/Coliseum

 

When the Toa Mahri returned to Metru Nui, a ceremony was held in the Coliseum honoring Matoro's sacrifice to revive the Great Spirit.

Edited by bonesiii, Mar 20 2014 - 04:30 PM.

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#120 Offline Phovos

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Posted Mar 21 2014 - 09:06 AM

Ah cheers for that. I never managed to get around to reading much of the background stuff after 2006.

 

To be fair, there's not a lot of stuff we're disappointed in. For a series of whimsical, alien, robotic action figures from LEGO, that's not bad.


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