Are Makuta Krika and Icarax really good guys?

[Lenny7092]

In the Bionicle book, Bionicle Legends 11: The Final Battle, Makuta Krika and Icarax were talking about stopping the Toa Nuva from awaking Mata Nui, which is Makuta Teridax and the Brotherhood of Makuta's evil plan. Both the Makuta also planned that if they succeed doing this, Icarax will take over the Brotherhood as its leader, and Teridax's plan will be failed.

First, Krika told one of the Toa Nuva, Gali Nuva, that she should get out of Karda Nui, which is where Mata Nui can be awakened.

Then, Icarax was trying to destroy the Codrex, which is also specifically where Mata Nui can be awakened.

However, Makuta Gorast noticed this, so she killed both of them to protect Teridax's plan from being foiled.

So, as the title says above, are both Krista and Icarax really good guys? I mean, usually, Makuta are always evil, but are Krika and Icarax reformed because they don't want Teridax from taking over the whole Matoran Universe as an evil tyrant, or are they still evil as they just want to take over the brotherhood and then possibly do villainous stuff, like taking over the Matoran Universe, too? Just curious.

I noticed that many of you guys think that they became good guys, but, in my opinion, they are still evil because they just want to thwart Teridax, so, as I said, take over the Brotherhood and then do evil stuff, like ruling the Matoran Universe.

So, what do you guys think of this?

[bonesiii]

One of the quotes from Greg in the LEGO.com topic answers about Krika -- short answer no. (See Greg Compendium for actual quote; I forget the exact wording. Go to Jag's file, now linked at end of firstpost, and use the Find tool or whatever to search the file for "Krika".)

 

And Icarax isn't even close to a good guy.

 

Krika may have been a bit less evil at first, but when they all chose to willingly drain their inner light, just like Shadow Matoran that "forces" them to be evil (even though they did it willingly; once it's done they can't change their minds on their own, apparently).

Edited March 13, 2014 by bonesiii

[Azani]

I myself am not familiar with the people on these forums who think that Krika and Icarax are "good guys", but if their only evidence for their goodness is that they were against Teridax, who isn't good, then that doesn't even begin to defend their idea. It's entirely possible to be against a force which is evil, and still be evil yourself.

Edited March 13, 2014 by Artakha's Nephew

[LordofBionicles]

Icarax wanted to lead the Brotherhood of Makuta, in order to do that he needed to show the rest of the Makuta that he had a better plan than that of the actual leader. Icarax never thought that Teridax's plan would work that's why he decided to not obey him as often as possible.

 

As for Krika, by wanting to save Gali he was trying to foil Teridax's plan since the Makuta of Karda Nui were told that they needed all six Toa Nuva to awaken the Great Spirit so if one of them was missing things would have started to backfire.

 

They are not good guys, they're just selfish and want nothing but to do what best suits them, the only good Makuta we've seen is Alternate Teridax.

[Azani]

Would you consider Miserix to be evil, in the core universe?

[Zox Tomana]

Would you consider Miserix to be evil, in the core universe?

Ummmm, I'm going to go with "yes" but for that I need to imagine a distinct note of uncertainty in my voice.

 

<note of uncertainty>Yes.</note of uncertainty>

 

I would answer that mainly because his sole aim is revenge on Teridax. Revenge is generally not considered a good thing. As to Miserix post finding out the Terry is dead... for all we know he's going to go on a rampage and try to destroy the Mask of Life and Mata Nui for stealing his kill.

[Chro]

Krika was, uh, less evil than most Makuta, I'd say... but not quite good. And Icarax was not good at all.

[ALVIS]

 

Would you consider Miserix to be evil, in the core universe?

Ummmm, I'm going to go with "yes" but for that I need to imagine a distinct note of uncertainty in my voice.

 

<note of uncertainty>Yes.</note of uncertainty>

 

I would answer that mainly because his sole aim is revenge on Teridax. Revenge is generally not considered a good thing. As to Miserix post finding out the Terry is dead... for all we know he's going to go on a rampage and try to destroy the Mask of Life and Mata Nui for stealing his kill.

 

 

My personal theory is that he'd end up trying to kill Alternate Teridax, thinking he was the real one in a really bad disguise.

[Katuko]

Icarax wanted to ruin the plan mostly so that he could be free to demolish all his opposition and rule the world without Teridax interfering. We know that the reason the two fought earlier was because Icarax went off on his own to conquer the MU by force. He fights for himself, and is far from good.

 

 

Krika showed mercy to both Miserix and Gali, despite having the opportunity to kill them. Miserix was already defeated and Teridax had ordered his death. Gali only needed to be removed from Karda Nui - killing her could have accomplished this. Instead Krika tries to warn her about awakening the Great Spirit, and offers her a free ticket to avoiding the Brotherhood's agents (the Tablet of Transit). Judging by the description from Takanuva's Blog, where he appears and forces Krika to retreat, Krika bore a face of "sadness and resignation" as he slipped away. Takanuva guesses it is because he had hoped a Toa of Light would not show up, but I read it more to mean that Krika realized there was no way the Toa would postpone the awakening - and thus avoid The Plan from taking action that day - if they had such an advantageous ally with them.

 

Krika strikes me as a being who is not good, but who is mostly evil for egoistical purposes. He cares about himself and is willing to go along with schemes that can profit him, but is not as fanatic, ruthless and brutal as someone like Gorast or Icarax are. They would kill potential enemies as soon as it became necessary, and they are willing to take active steps towards world domination and such. Krika seems more like the type to hang around in the background, saying "yeah sure, that sounds good" up until the point where the plan is no longer 100% waterproof, then he wishes to bail instead.

 

 

We haven't seen enough of Miserix to classify him properly. He is described as ill-tempered and somewhat egoistical, but apparently he believed that he was fulfilling his purpose by keeping the Matoran Universe in check, despite not being the de facto worshiped being in control of it. He was opposed to taking over the world when Teridax described his plan, but it's not entirely clear if he feels the concept is wrong. He protested only against Teridax' attempt to steal leadership for him, and the suicidal nature of the plan if they were to fail. It could be that he saw their current grip on the universe as sufficient, so that despite a possible desire to rule he would not need to go further.

 

Allegory: You could have an evil man in charge of an organization; a man which is in it mostly so that he can have power over others. Maybe he believes in a rigid system, one-man power and high profit, and does not care that the profit comes from something "nice" like selling food at cheap prices to orphanages. His workers could be bright-eyed volunteers who are happy just because they are helping people by working hard, while the man in charge sits behind his desk all day, laughing at how everyone listens to his orders while counting the money from today's sales. From the outside, the man is running a business classified as "Good". It has a very positive effect on the workers (who willingly help) and the customers (who get food for far less than the competitors offer, no strings attached). So, if the orphanage is happy with his low prices and the workers are happy with what they do, and no one really gets screwed over due to the business, we must conclude that the business the man conducts is Good. From the inside, though, the man is driven only by "Evil" motivations: power and profit.

 

But despite being evil, coming up to him and suggesting that you burn down the orphanage and then sell food at insane prices to the desperate survivors, you will likely be met with a blank stare. There is potential for high profit, yes, but it would destroy the current stable business and could very well lead to workers abandoning the site, leading into bankruptcy if the business fails to produce or the intended customers are not able to pay any more (or they all die).

 

Miserix runs a massive organization of powerful beings and loyal underlings. He keeps the universe running. He is content with looking at the Matoran Universe, smirking at the people scuttling around, and thinking "If I weren't here, this civilization would crash and burn." On the other hand, he could have a more Good motivation, with a jolly "I just am glad everything is order!" His temper and his drive for revenge suggests the former, though.

 

 

Long story short: I don't think we can pin Miserix as either Good or Evil with the information we have, but pure Good looks unlikely. Krika is also in a gray area, not Good but maybe Neutral rather than pure Evil. We can definitely pin Icarax as Evil. Evil destroying Evil is still Evil if they do it for Evil purposes.

Edited March 13, 2014 by Katuko

[TERIDAX941]

Icarax wasn't good at all, he was just a headstrong rebellious Makuta who hated following Teridax, and was sworn to do whatever he could to foil his Plan.

 

Krika... yes he drained his inner light, and therefore became evil, but my theories was that he regretted doing a lot of the atrocities that he and his kind had committed, seeing the Toa as who they wanted to be, and because of their actions could never achieve that role. Now, apparently he wasn't as bad as the others, I mean, with Gali, he could have just outright killed her, there and then, and that would've been perfectly acceptable in his plan to stop Teridax. But he chose to show her mercy and gave her the option to just leave the core. I think that there was a small sliver of light that was trying to resurface after eons of being smothered by darkness. Who know? Maybe the method of light draining was never really completed when he tried and he had a tiny bit left, which gave him this "conscious" that he apparently had.

 

As far as Miserix goes, it was stated that he also drained his inner light during his time of imprisonment, so he would also be classified as evil as well, even though he did it just so that his "brothers" wouldn't have an advantage over him in battle.

[JAG18]

 

Q) Do you consider Krika to be less evil than the other Makuta?

A) No I don't. Krika's reluctance to back Teridak's plan was not because he thought it was immoral or wrong, it was because he thought it would fail.

I'm pretty sure that is what you were talking about bonesiii.

 

So yeah, no neither of them was really all that good. Icarax least of all.

 

Oh and Iron_Man5, I think the reason Krika didn't kill Gali then-and-there, is because that would have drawn the attention of his fellow Makuta, which would have ended with him being killed.

[FallenCor]

I think anyone who even considers draining their inner light isn't exactly a Boy Scout, ha ha. The only possible exceptions are the five Makuta who were executed prior to this, but I guess we'll never know for certain.

[Phovos]

Two wrongs don't make a right, right?

[Zox Tomana]

Two wrongs don't make a right, right?

No, but three lefts do.

 

I'm sorry. I should be slapped.

 

So basically we have three evil Makuta, all evil in different ways. And I agree, anyone who willingly shuns their inner light isn't really going to be acting in the name of good.

[FallenCor]

 

Two wrongs don't make a right, right?

No, but three lefts do.

 

I'm sorry. I should be slapped.

*slaps you*

 

Hey, I was poking around BS01 and found some quotes for y'all:

 

"Do you know why we Makuta hate Toa so much? It's because you are what we could only pretend to be, once upon a time -- heroes who do good for no reward. And so we call you fools, and even slay you... because we could not be you."

— Krika, Swamp of Shadows

 

Doesn't sound like any sort of good-guy to me.

 

"You are already doomed -- and that is perhaps the one thing you and I have in common."

— Krika to Tahu, Swamp of Shadows

 

This could explain why he was so passive compared to the other Makuta. He simply accepted that he was ill-fated no matter what he did.

 

As for Icarax... everything he says is just seeped in malevolence, so there's no point in posting them, ha ha.

Edited March 13, 2014 by Silverglass

[Baron Von Nebula]

Krika did have a sincere change of heart, while Icarax just wanted to wreck Teridax's plan so he could conquer the universe himself. In fact, Icarax's direct approach to conquest would have resulted in more destruction that Teridax ever would cause.

[TERIDAX941]

Oh and Iron_Man5, I think the reason Krika didn't kill Gali then-and-there, is because that would have drawn the attention of his fellow Makuta, which would have ended with him being killed.

 

 

That's probably true... but considering he got killed just because he tried to warn his fellow Makuta about the impending doom, I'd say his chances of survival were slim no matter what he did.

[Master Inika]

 

Would you consider Miserix to be evil, in the core universe?

Ummmm, I'm going to go with "yes" but for that I need to imagine a distinct note of uncertainty in my voice.

 

<note of uncertainty>Yes.</note of uncertainty>

 

I would answer that mainly because his sole aim is revenge on Teridax. Revenge is generally not considered a good thing. As to Miserix post finding out the Terry is dead... for all we know he's going to go on a rampage and try to destroy the Mask of Life and Mata Nui for stealing his kill.

 

I'm not sure if I could imagine Miserix doing that. Judging by how he was content to run the Brotherhood without receiving glory, he probably didn't care about being remembered as Teridax's killer. The Dark Hunter Vengeance was motivated (as his name suggests) by revenge, but he seems like much more of a punk than Miserix. Of course, being trapped on Artidax for hundreds of years with nothing else to think about might have maddened him a bit.

 

Icarax was obviously just a violent, power-hungry warmonger, but Krika is in a bit of a gray area. He seems morally on par with Miserix.

[fishers64]

Of Krika:

2) Why didn’t Krika kill Miserix?
2) Because he had doubts about the wisdom of Teridax’s plan.

* * *
1. Just exactly how loyal is Krika to the Plan?
1a. If he could, would he stop it?

1) Krika has no loyalty to the Plan, as such. But he sees no reasonable alternative to it either. His expectation is that he loses either way. At this point, if you scrap the Plan and Mata Nui awakens, odds are he will all the Makuta as punishment.

2)Why did Krika doesn’t want the plan to succeed?
2a)Does this mean he still has a little light in him left?

2) No, Krika simply sees no benefit to himself. He doesn’t think things will be better for him if the plan succeeds or if it fails.

On Miserix:

1. Miserix was never part of the rebellion against Mata Nui and was imprisoned for years. Did he ever expel his inner light during this time?
1a. If so, when?
1b. Why would he?

1) Yup. He didn’t join with Makuta Teridax because he thought Makuta would fail, not because he was a nice guy.

* * *
7.) Ok, so I recently read someone say that Makuta Miserix also banished his light and became pure shadow like the other Makuta. But nowhere on Miserix’s BS01 page does it mention that, plus it makes no sense since he didn’t rebel against Mata Nui (was in fact against the rebellion) so why would he choose pure shadow? Has this been confirmed somewhere? Because it seems to me that Miserix would just stay as he was created, with Shadow powers and control but still a little bit of moral light in him. Or did banishing their light happen before Teridax’s rebellion and I just have my timeline wrong?

ANSWER: BS01 is not omniscient, so something not being on there doesn’t mean it isn’t so. Miserix banished his light because his enemies had done so, and in his mind, that gave them an edge if they met again. They would not be held back by any shred of morality or conscience. So he saw it as in his interest to do the same thing.

Also, the Dark Hunters opposed the Makuta too. Nobody is calling them moral paragons, I hope. Opposing evil doesn't make you good.

[reptile3607]

I've always thought that Krika started to become more gray after he got mutated. as for Icarax... no. HOWEVER, Vakama turned "evil" for a bit, so it is possible that he would've become like a makuta, if he had of done something permament, like getting rid of his "light". Therefore, its also possible that some of the makuta could have regretted taking such a permament route, but had been unable to turn back. Sorry if thats not too clear..

[JAG18]

I've always thought that Krika started to become more gray after he got mutated. as for Icarax... no. HOWEVER, Vakama turned "evil" for a bit, so it is possible that he would've become like a makuta, if he had of done something permament, like getting rid of his "light". Therefore, its also possible that some of the makuta could have regretted taking such a permament route, but had been unable to turn back. Sorry if thats not too clear..

I think it's clear enough, but considering how nasty most of the Makuta we saw were, I tend to doubt that any of them had any (real) second thoughts. And even then let's not forget that every Makuta who went along with The Plan hoped to one day be a ruler or at least the lieutenant of the ruler.

Edited March 14, 2014 by JAG18

[Master Inika]

I've always thought that Krika started to become more gray after he got mutated. as for Icarax... no. HOWEVER, Vakama turned "evil" for a bit, so it is possible that he would've become like a makuta, if he had of done something permament, like getting rid of his "light". Therefore, its also possible that some of the makuta could have regretted taking such a permament route, but had been unable to turn back. Sorry if thats not too clear..

Hordika Venom infused the Toa with the instincts of Rahi, which have no moral Light or Shadow. Vakama gave into his amoral animal instincts to be the alpha male when he joined with Roodaka. They were never at risk of becoming malevolent as deeply as the Makuta were, "just" aggressive and beastlike.

[TERIDAX941]

Really? I always thought that Hordika venom added to the inner darkness when it unleashed the Rahi side, since it was the Visorak that caused it, and they were always associated with the Makuta. And I'm sure I read somewhere in a book on it that Roodaka said that the venom's effects helped serve the shadows, so I think even though Rahi aren't morally good or evil in and of themselves, I think that the Hordika venom does influence the victim to lean more towards darkness and evil.

[Master Inika]

Really? I always thought that Hordika venom added to the inner darkness when it unleashed the Rahi side, since it was the Visorak that caused it, and they were always associated with the Makuta. And I'm sure I read somewhere in a book on it that Roodaka said that the venom's effects helped serve the shadows, so I think even though Rahi aren't morally good or evil in and of themselves, I think that the Hordika venom does influence the victim to lean more towards darkness and evil.

That's possible. What I said about Hordika Venom was just an assumption. I don't recall Roodaka saying anything about moral Light and Shadow. As far as I know there isn't any official answer.

[Chro]

I think that Krika only seems good because of the contrast with the other Makuta. If he was placed in an environment with a bunch of morally good characters, he'd clearly be the most villainous of them.

Perhaps Krika wished that he could have been "good" to some degree, but he was always a Makuta and couldn't escape that nature. I guess that for him it manifests as self-preservation and greed instead of outright destructive evil.

[ALVIS]

Perhaps Krika wished that he could have been "good" to some degree, but he was always a Makuta and couldn't escape that nature. I guess that for him it manifests as self-preservation and greed instead of outright destructive evil.

 

That sort of reasoning makes me uncomfortable, because it implies that characters have a certain "nature" due to what race/clan they belong to which they can never overcome -- which bleeds awfully close to racism in my book. And yes, I understand that Krika and the Makuta are fictional; that doesn't mean it's not a bad idea to say "all Makuta have evil tendencies, there's no escaping that, they're just bad guys". When you get down to it, fiction is just an exciting and entertaining reflection of themes and concepts we see in the real world -- and thus, the way our fictions work says a lot about how we think the world works.

 

That said, I agree with your basic sentiment of "Krika maybe wanted to be a good person, but couldn't bring himself to do that". Everyone can relate to wanting to do something, but being too lazy to get around to it: losing weight, doing homework, donating to charity, and so on and so forth. Krika thought he should be better than his peers, but when it came down to it, he didn't have the heart for altruism.

 

It should be noted that good-natured Makuta probably existed, Makuta who simply did their job of producing helpful Rahi to aid the Matoran in their tasks and populate their universe, and almost definitely sided with Miserix during the Convocation. We just didn't see much of them, because (on a meta level) good guys are kinda boring, and (in-story) Teridax and his henchmen did a pretty good job of eradicating the unfaithful.

[bonesiii]

I think that was why Alternate Teridax was introduced; he clearly disproves the idea that Makuta can't be good guys.

 

Krika can't help being evil now, but again that's not due to being a Makuta, it's due to having his inner light drained like a Shadow Matoran (same would happen to any MU sapient being evidently). He could still be evil prior to that, though, but not because he had to be.

 

I think a lot of what happened with the Makuta in the Core Dimension is their leader could have chosen to go down a good path or bad path, and he chose somewhat bad, but not horrible (Miserix), and Teridax may have been manipulating behind the scenes after choosing a bad path. Most others may have simply followed suit due to peer pressure, and it became a societal thing to try to outdo each other somewhat in how evil they would be. Alterry shows that had they followed a radically different early path the results would be quite different.

[ALVIS]

Ah, yes, but remember -- in Alt. Teridax's home world, all the Makuta are good guys. They were created to be good guys, and they are indubitably good guys, the goodest of the good. It's the flip side of the "always evil" coin, and doesn't do anything to address the original problem: that the characters are apparently restricted to one moral outlook or course of action based on their race.

 

Don't even get me started on "moral light/darkness"; that's an uncomfortable subject, because it implies that the Makuta gave up their own free will in exchange for more power. Actually, that's a wicked awesome and depraved idea, but it still raises questions. When a being purges all of their moral light, does their brain simply shut off all altruistic feelings? Whenever they make a decision, do they automatically avoid the nobler paths? Or are they in the thrall of some cosmic entity of Evil that influences their every thought? (The same goes for those who purge their moral darkness.) The idea of a character being "made evil" and thereafter unable to stop being evil makes it harder for me to think of them as a character, more of a tragedy. I'd prefer to think of "purging their moral light" as being a poetic phrasing of "sinking so deep into darkness and depravity that they essentially became too entrenched in murder and scheming to stop" -- in other words, the Makuta's evil was entirely of their own choosing, not because they actually removed all good thoughts from their minds. But perhaps I'm just rambling.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Angel Bob

[bonesiii]

in Alt. Teridax's home world, all the Makuta are good guys. They were created to be good guys,

So were the ones in the Core Dimension... Memory's fuzzy on the alt ones, I never paid close attention to that part, but pretty sure he mentioned something about overcoming temptations that main Teridax didn't.

 

Don't even get me started on "moral light/darkness"; that's an uncomfortable subject, because it implies that the Makuta gave up their own free will in exchange for more power.

Well, they did.

 

I'd prefer to think of "purging their moral light" as being a poetic phrasing of "sinking so deep into darkness and depravity that they essentially became too entrenched in murder and scheming to stop"

That's the same thing, though, just in different words.

 

We don't know everything about how it works, but purging moral light clearly means you can no longer help but be evil. Our own brains can be damaged (hypothetically, on purpose) to cause such effects. Doesn't really change that they're characters, but they're no longer able to choose good on their own, apparently. The light-only side is the one that's confusing; they don't become pure good guys for example. Seem more like obsessive obstacles, not evil; but too honorable for (in most situations) their own good. (Though Umbra served an intended role from the start in that state; he made an effective guardian who wouldn't even let worthy good guys past.)

[Katuko]

It's not free will they are giving up, as they do not get "mind controlled" into blindly following "orders". They are giving up the ability to feel certain types of emotions in certain circumstances. A normal person would have the capability of going between (for example) love for a person, neutral state, and hate towards a person. Makuta have removed the good side, making them shift only between indifference and hate. They presumably never felt much of those good emotions in the first place, given that they were all willing to purge the light from themselves.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Katuko

[bonesiii]

Correct -- though what I meant was simply they removed their free will in terms of just the ability to "turn good" again on their own. Was meant in context of previous discussion. Vaguely thought of editing the post to clarify but didn't have time and this will do I guess.

[ALVIS]

You know, I do concede -- there is something awesomely wicked and depraved about the idea of villains who intentionally gave up a portion of their free will in exchange for power. It's a shame that was never really dwelled upon in the story, just mentioned once or twice offhandedly. The idea of the Makuta removing their capability to love/care for others is a horrific idea, and told right, it would inspire a fearful mix of pity and disgust for the Brotherhood and the monsters they became.

[Katuko]

Now, would Teridax's feeling upon actually winning - the kind of situation where you let out an evil laughter - would that classify as a positive emotion on his part? I mean, being evil can easily mean rolling in sadist joy as you torture your enemies and crush them like ants, and excitement is generally positive, even it's only to the self. Does draining the light from yourself remove this type of joy as well, I wonder?

Edited March 19, 2014 by Katuko

[bonesiii]

The inner light/shadow appears to have nothing to do with ability to feel emotions both positive and negative. Umbra could still feel "negative" about the idea that somebody might pass by him, for example. He certainly wasn't all smiles and grins. So yes, Teridax's feelings of twisted victory certainly count as positive (in the sense of feeling good to him at the time; obviously not objectively a good thing either for others or himself).

[fishers64]

I like to think of the "draining of inner light" thing as a commitment to evil so strong that they removed the part of the mental architecture that was incompatible with that goal. They didn't want any inner light holding them back.

 

Further, they wouldn't have robbed themselves of their light if it robbed them of the satisfaction of doing evil. Why would they do evil if they couldn't be satisfied with it? Not being happy about doing evil would make them less evil; they would want their moral light back.

 

(That makes me wonder if that "removal of moral light" or shadow is reversible. )

[Chro]

 

Perhaps Krika wished that he could have been "good" to some degree, but he was always a Makuta and couldn't escape that nature. I guess that for him it manifests as self-preservation and greed instead of outright destructive evil.

 

That sort of reasoning makes me uncomfortable, because it implies that characters have a certain "nature" due to what race/clan they belong to which they can never overcome -- which bleeds awfully close to racism in my book. And yes, I understand that Krika and the Makuta are fictional; that doesn't mean it's not a bad idea to say "all Makuta have evil tendencies, there's no escaping that, they're just bad guys".

Sorry about that. I laid out my thoughts poorly. That's what you get from trying to post in BST and listen to your teachers at the same time.

I was intending to refer to the general nature of the Makuta after all of them drained their light - a process which caused the Makuta to become inherently morally dark, correct? - but after rereading it, that did not come across well in my post. (The key wrong word there is always, I think.) I meant that Krika might have wished he'd never drained his light, but couldn't get away from his, er, light-drainedness, so to speak.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Chro

[FallenCor]

Now, would Teridax's feeling upon actually winning - the kind of situation where you let out an evil laughter - would that classify as a positive emotion on his part? I mean, being evil can easily mean rolling in sadist joy as you torture your enemies and crush them like ants, and excitement is generally positive, even it's only to the self. Does draining the light from yourself remove this type of joy as well, I wonder?

Personally, I think of draining their inner light as a redirection of emotions as opposed to elimination. One of the most basic forms of this is the inflation of pride and greed. They didn't lose the capacity to feel satisfaction, but instead pump it into self-satisfaction. Their own personal wants and needs trump all others. Compassion is suppressed to such a degree that it can never interfere with their own desires. Only traits that benefit themselves are preserved -- even amplified, for some Makuta -- and anything they deem hindering is buried deep inside and locked up for good; and apparently their moral light is the only key.

With the opposite (depletion of inner darkness), it would be the same, but obviously with a different setup. Depending on the individual, pride is left intact (Umbra) or suppressed (alt-Teridax) and greed is locked away. Compassion is left intact or even heightened because it allows the individual to always serve others before themselves. Aside from basic self-preservation, all emotions/inclinations that benefit themselves are suppressed or locked up. Both Umbra and alt-Teridax are perfect examples of the "Lawful Good" alignment, but with the obvious difference that Umbra has put a restraint on his compassion to more effectively serve the Ignika. Unrestricted, his compassion would have allowed anyone who looked innocent or heroic enough to reach the mask, which he (and the GBs) could not abide.

Umbra essentially became the "bad cop," Icarax vs. Teridax became Saruman vs. Sauron, and Krika the despondent Starscream of Bionicle.

[Master Inika]

Actually, according to BS01, the Makuta are inherently evil. From the "Abilities and Traits" section of the Makuta page:

 

 

 

All Makuta were created with an innate character flaw that many view as a curse on the species. They all have immense pride in their abilities, lust for great power, and believe themselves to be superior to all other beings.

 

The Teridax page claims the same thing. The page on Alternate Teridax says he and the other Alternate Makuta's purge of their inner Shadow was them overcoming their curse, so it is inherent to Makuta across realities. I suppose it is a sort of truthful (fictional) racism, but the MU inhabitants aren't quite races as humans know them (for instance, in Time Trap, Vakama claims that all Ta-Matoran are mathematicians at heart, and that doesn't seem as racist as saying the same thing about Asians).

[ALVIS]

See, that's what I take issue with: official, canon statements of "race defines everything in BIONICLE". Well, screw that.

[bonesiii]

Actually, according to BS01, the Makuta are inherently evil.

It doesn't say "inherently evil", does it? Again, the Great Beings intended them to be good guys. Period. Now it can get trickier from there, but they're not naturally forced to be evil.

 

From the "Abilities and Traits" section of the Makuta page:

 

All Makuta were created with an innate character flaw that many view as a curse on the species. They all have immense pride in their abilities, lust for great power, and believe themselves to be superior to all other beings.

 

The Teridax page claims the same thing. The page on Alternate Teridax says he and the other Alternate Makuta's purge of their inner Shadow was them overcoming their curse, so it is inherent to Makuta across realities. I suppose it is a sort of truthful (fictional) racism, but the MU inhabitants aren't quite races as humans know them (for instance, in Time Trap, Vakama claims that all Ta-Matoran are mathematicians at heart, and that doesn't seem as racist as saying the same thing about Asians).

I'm not sure where they're getting this -- I'd like to see official quotes on it. It may be an assumption of whoever worded that sentence. My guess is they may be referring to 1) the nature of the antidermis molecule they're made of, or 2) a genuine personality trait, that just happened to be copied into all of them for some reason (those two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive). They could be "personality clones" in certain ways, without that being an essential part of the species. And then, the "some" who "view" that as a curse on the species would be viewing it this way in error. I think...

 

I'm not convinced about the interpretation of Alternate Teridax. I think this is just a matter of being extremely powerful beings, and the role they were put into. That would lead to those sorts of temptations, causally, without any "genetic-equivalent" cause at all. I'm not saying there is none in the canon, but only that we shouldn't assume that was what LEGO meant. Besides, Alternate Teridax did have the identical natural personality (I think...) as Core Dimension Teridax. Same person, just different life paths.

 

And we all have to face certain temptations due to a combination of our personalities and life experiences.

 

That said, there are definitely personality traits in the different types of Matoran, and could be in the Makuta too, but these would be more comparable to personality tendencies between dogs versus cats due to actual "genetic equivalent" reasons, not at all like "race" among humans (where there are no inherent genetic differences of any real substance; less than the differences between different individuals in fact). Racism is wrong in humans because 1) it claims that even if there are differences, that somehow justifies hurting people different than the "hurter", and 2) it's erroneous in terms of anything meaningful; the real differences are merely superficial. A racist claims that there are differences that don't actually exist. Among many other reasons but those are the biggies.

 

So, it's unfortunate that how LEGO did this creates the risk of confusion for racism but we should keep in mind that they didn't intend it that way. And almost nobody seems to have been confused about it. I've been expecting to see the question brought up for years actually and nobody has until now so yeah.

 

See, that's what I take issue with: official, canon statements of "race defines everything in BIONICLE". Well, screw that.

Your reaction is understandable, but it's important on such a sensitive issues to be accurate. It's not "everything". Also, it isn't even "race" like what the term is used for among humans. I'd tread cautiously in using that word for them. Makuta are actually a separate species, for example. And made artificially at that. And among Matoran, it's different elements, with actual different forms of energy in them, and possibly intentional programming tendencies in them by the GBs (important to keep in mind they're artificial), so again it isn't really comparable. That "all" statement by Vakama seems borderline, though. But he could even be incorrect about that.

Edited March 21, 2014 by bonesiii