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How Should BIONICLE Be Brought Back?


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#1 Offline Dorkpool

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Posted Mar 15 2014 - 06:49 PM

Yep. Another one of the 'Bring Back BIONICLE' posts. Sort of.

Basically, if BIONICLE were to, hypothetically return, how should it do so? As sets? Sets and story serials? Or just as a story?

 


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#2 Offline JAG18

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Posted Mar 15 2014 - 06:58 PM

Well, just story sounds most plausible, considering it would only require Greg finding the spare time to finish the serials.

 

There are several pros and cons of the sets returns, pros that come to mind include new pieces for mocing and chances for new books and comics to promote sets.  Cons, the biggest con (other than perhaps the drain on everyone's wallets  :P) would be that if the sets return, then that would probably mean that their would be a whole new story, to invite newcomers.  That's nice and all, but I for one would really like to see where the storyline was going, and I'm not sure if we would get a real ending if a set mandated reboot happened.  

 

So yeah, right now I'd go for just story, but hey if LEGO wants to bring back BIONICLE I'd like that.


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#3 Offline Lyichir

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Posted Mar 15 2014 - 07:08 PM

Firstly, this belongs in LEGO Discussion since it's not about the story exclusively, nor is it exclusively about the sets. I reported the topic so a staff member should move it shortly (or merge it, if a sufficiently similar active topic exists).

Now that that's over with, my opinion. Bionicle literally will not be brought back in any way that excludes sets. Lego is a toy company and Bionicle is a toy brand. Lego is unlikely to ever relinquish control over Bionicle, and they are not in the business of crafting standalone stories. And frankly, I think it's better that way. The Bionicle story was in my opinion best when it had the foundation the sets provided to fall back on. The story progressed at a regulated pace, the cast of characters was at least slightly limited (at least insofar as the focus was on a small group of characters), and problematic concepts like alternate dimensions were mostly avoided. There's always the recurring notion that Greg could just conclude the serials, but there's few reasons for him to do so (his workload has not lessened considerably and is not likely to unless he retires, at which point his authority to do so would be compromised) and many reasons for him not to do so (there's no way that any conclusion could satisfy everyone's expectations at this point). So sets are a must.

A true revival would also have to involve new story. That's not to say that Bionicle sets couldn't happen without the story—in fact, I'd say the best hope we could have for new Bionicle might be an anniversary-based "tribute set", perhaps of the Great Spirit Robot, or Tahu, or some other iconic existing character. But a standalone set is not the same as a revival. For that, you'd need a fresh set of characters to focus on as sets (or maybe, just maybe, new depictions of a classic team), and a new story, or at least a rewritten one that was reworked to avoid alienating new fans with each passing year. To be honest, I don't see that happening (Bionicle tried soft reboots multiple times and it didn't ever have the success that was hoped for), but if Bionicle were to come back in force I don't see it happening any other way.

So in short, a new Bionicle would have to come back in the same way it was before—new sets, new story. Nothing less would really suffice.


Edited by Lyichir, Mar 15 2014 - 07:12 PM.

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#4 Offline Dorkpool

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Posted Mar 15 2014 - 07:19 PM

My apologies for posting this in the wrong place. That wasn't really my intention.
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#5 Offline -Windrider-

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Posted Mar 15 2014 - 07:41 PM

Moving to LEGO Discussion. (I don't see any analogous active topics there.)


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#6 Offline Dorkpool

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Posted Mar 15 2014 - 07:43 PM

At least it wasn't taken down
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#7 Offline Ghabulous Ghoti

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Posted Mar 15 2014 - 07:53 PM

Easy. It shouldn't. Not any time soon, at least.


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#8 Offline Dorkpool

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Posted Mar 15 2014 - 08:24 PM

Easy. It shouldn't. Not any time soon, at least.


But if it were, hypothetically speaking?

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#9 Offline Matoro Zeliph

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Posted Mar 15 2014 - 09:55 PM

Bionicle should be brought back where the story takes place thousands of years in the past based from the original storyline, or thousands of years in the future based from the original storyline.

Why? Because you won't disappoint the Bionicle Oldies (like me :P), and you won't make the the Bionicle Newbies confused. If so happen the storyline mentions something from the original Bionicle storyline, it would be a stuttle easter egg reference or something. 

As for the sets, I would like to have the new, but old Bionicle designs, like example from the Rahi 01 sets. Just because they have a lot more gear-functioned interactivity, including complicated builds compared to the 06+ sets. I felt after Bionicle 05, the Bionicle sets ended up being its own thing, than a branch off of Technic. Yes, I was a throwbots/roboriders fan back then. :)


Edited by Matoro1992, Mar 15 2014 - 09:57 PM.

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#10 Offline Azani

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Posted Mar 15 2014 - 11:46 PM

Firstly, this belongs in LEGO Discussion since it's not about the story exclusively, nor is it exclusively about the sets. I reported the topic so a staff member should move it shortly (or merge it, if a sufficiently similar active topic exists).

Now that that's over with, my opinion. Bionicle literally will not be brought back in any way that excludes sets. Lego is a toy company and Bionicle is a toy brand. Lego is unlikely to ever relinquish control over Bionicle, and they are not in the business of crafting standalone stories. And frankly, I think it's better that way. The Bionicle story was in my opinion best when it had the foundation the sets provided to fall back on. The story progressed at a regulated pace, the cast of characters was at least slightly limited (at least insofar as the focus was on a small group of characters), and problematic concepts like alternate dimensions were mostly avoided. There's always the recurring notion that Greg could just conclude the serials, but there's few reasons for him to do so (his workload has not lessened considerably and is not likely to unless he retires, at which point his authority to do so would be compromised) and many reasons for him not to do so (there's no way that any conclusion could satisfy everyone's expectations at this point). So sets are a must.


I have to say that I disagree with your ideas on sets, Lychir, and due to the massive amount of time necessary for me to restate everything that I said in "Will we ever see another Bionicle" I'd like to avoid discussing it in this topic. If you want a reminder as to why, please see the 135th, 137th, and 139th posts in the aforementioned other topic.

I'd like to see a reboot of the Bionicle storyline that would cater to an older and more mature audience. The writers would approach the storyline from new angles, and possibly remake several characters, while keeping important aspects of their personalities.

Edited by Artakha's Nephew, Jun 04 2014 - 10:41 AM.

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#11 Offline fishers64

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Posted Mar 16 2014 - 12:12 AM

I'd like to see a futuristic Spherus Magna story, with some new mysteries and nods to old mysteries without bleeding the old ones completely dry. 

 

I would also like to see some new characters return along with the old ones. Mix it up a bit. 


Edited by fishers64, Mar 16 2014 - 12:13 AM.

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#12 Offline Lyichir

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Posted Mar 16 2014 - 10:37 AM

 

Firstly, this belongs in LEGO Discussion since it's not about the story exclusively, nor is it exclusively about the sets. I reported the topic so a staff member should move it shortly (or merge it, if a sufficiently similar active topic exists).

Now that that's over with, my opinion. Bionicle literally will not be brought back in any way that excludes sets. Lego is a toy company and Bionicle is a toy brand. Lego is unlikely to ever relinquish control over Bionicle, and they are not in the business of crafting standalone stories. And frankly, I think it's better that way. The Bionicle story was in my opinion best when it had the foundation the sets provided to fall back on. The story progressed at a regulated pace, the cast of characters was at least slightly limited (at least insofar as the focus was on a small group of characters), and problematic concepts like alternate dimensions were mostly avoided. There's always the recurring notion that Greg could just conclude the serials, but there's few reasons for him to do so (his workload has not lessened considerably and is not likely to unless he retires, at which point his authority to do so would be compromised) and many reasons for him not to do so (there's no way that any conclusion could satisfy everyone's expectations at this point). So sets are a must.


I disagree with your ideas on sets, Lychir, and due to the massive amount of time necessary for me to restate everything that I said in "Will we ever see another Bionicle" I'd like to avoid discussing it in this topic. If you want a reminder as to why, please see the 135th, 137th, and 139th posts in the aforementioned other topic.

I'd like to see a reboot of the Bionicle storyline that would cater to an older and more mature audience. The writers would approach the storyline from new angles, and possibly remake several characters, while keeping important aspects of their personalities.

 

From what I read of those points you made fairly good points about how certain aspects of the story would not necessarily need to be exclusive to a mechandise-driven story. I don't disagree with that. My point was that the Bionicle storyline worked best in the past when it was reined in by a focus on current sets (even semi-original stories like Maze of Shadows and Voyage of Fear limited their focus to the heroes of the current sets, unlike the meandering serials), and that, like it or not, Bionicle simply ISN'T going to come back without a toyline. Lego's certainly not going to bring it back that way, since they're a toy company first and foremost. And they're not likely to sell the rights to it because when they're enjoying unprecedented success, as they are now, they have nothing substantial to gain by selling the rights, and even if that current success faded away, they'd have more to lose than to gain by selling off an asset that could be potentially valuable to a competing building toy company.

There are a number of reasons why a more mature reboot would probably be a bad idea, some relating to the "more mature" angle (since Bionicle's innocence, especially at its start, was part of what gave it its charm, and because it's harder to sell toys to older audiences), and some relating to the very nature of a "reboot" (since while not impossible, it'd be extremely difficult to rewrite the story and maintain the sense of mystery now that the biggest secrets of the story have been revealed). Obviously few difficulties are insurmountable, but every complication you add to a conceptual Bionicle return makes an new, original theme more preferable in the eyes of Lego.


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#13 Offline NickonAquaMagna

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Posted Mar 16 2014 - 11:00 AM

or thousands of years in the future based from the original storyline.

 

You don't say?


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#14 Offline Azani

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Posted Mar 16 2014 - 12:58 PM

 

or thousands of years in the future based from the original storyline.

 
You don't say?

 

 

or thousands of years in the future based from the original storyline.

 
You don't say?

 

Actually, Nick's Nova Orbis comic is a pretty accurate representation of what I'd hope for an official continuation to be like. I'm also working on my own screenplay for a film which will be a retelling of the 2001 story. I'll release it here, in parts, when it is finished, and I may attempt to actually film it.


Edited by Artakha's Nephew, Mar 16 2014 - 12:59 PM.

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I can also be found under the username Azani on SolisMagna.com and the BioMediaProject forums. Check out SolisMagna.com, as it is exactly what we need to maintain interest in Bionicle. Also, I highly recommend Check out the script for Mysterious Island, an adaption/reboot of the 2001 Bionicle story which I am writing. It's also a musical.

 
Bionicle is returning in 2015!

#15 Offline Matoro Zeliph

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Posted Mar 16 2014 - 01:45 PM

Really? Then I would have to check that out that out then. 


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#16 Offline Aanchir

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Posted Mar 16 2014 - 05:54 PM

I would not want BIONICLE back except as both sets and story. I loved it for what it was, not for some abstract idea of what it could have or should have been. I might never have paid it the slightest heed if I hadn't seen teasers for it in a LEGO Technic pamphlet and my LEGO Mania Magazines in 2001. Its foundation as a building toy was always a big part of what made it great, and a big part of what made it successful, and a big part of how it was able to capture the hearts of a generation.

If I wanted something that was purely a great story, there's no reason it would need anything to do with BIONICLE. There is no limit to the amount of great, engaging stories that people can come up with. If you wanted to create a story-driven franchise without a building toy as its backbone, why would you limit yourself to one that was never intended to exist without one? Either you'd end up with a pale, incomplete imitation of what that franchise once was, or you'd mutate it into something it was never intended to be.

Some people think that bringing it back as a story-only franchise would be as simple as Greg finishing the storylines in the serials. But here's a question: who says finishing them was ever his goal? As I understand it, he continued them not because there was some set-in-stone finishing point he was trying to reach, but because there were still stories he wanted to tell in the BIONICLE universe. There's nothing wrong with this goal per se, but something any BIONICLE fan should realize by now is that there will always be the potential for new stories in that universe.

If you all you want is more BIONICLE stories, then Greg continuing the serials could satisfy that desire, but of course fan fiction could satisfy it just as effectively. If what you want is closure, there's no reason to think a continuation of the serials would ever truly bring that about. Ever since the serials began, they have always left loose ends for the main story — the one that was being expertly guided by the whole story team, not just by Greg working solo — to pick up on.

Naturally, I wouldn't want BIONICLE to come back as "just sets" either. That'd be silly. If all I cared about were the sets then I would already be plenty satisfied with the themes already out, because many of them boast a building and play experience that I enjoy as well as or better than the building and play experience I got from BIONICLE. Truly the BIONICLE sets had their ups and downs, just as subsequent themes have, but in my opinion the quality of set designs we are getting these days is better than ever.

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#17 Offline Voltex

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Posted Mar 16 2014 - 08:37 PM

If Bionicle is ever brought back, I think the best idea would be to have it take place something like 1000-10,000 years after the end of the old story, perhaps where characters like Takanuva are no longer anything but myth, and very few characters from the original story remain (and even then they'd be your stereotypical very old and wise types).

 

From there you have an infinite number of possible directions to take the story in; do they explore space? Does some ancient threat from the legends reappear? Does some plague ravage the planet?

 

Who knows.

 

As far as sets go, I'd like it if they were on a pseudo-larger scale, much like this year's Hero factory line; the characters could all be the size of minifigs, with the sets still being a combination of technic and the ball/socket building system, acting as ships or vehicles or whatever you can imagine for them.


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#18 Offline NickonAquaMagna

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Posted Mar 16 2014 - 08:45 PM

If Bionicle is ever brought back, I think the best idea would be to have it take place something like 1000-10,000 years after the end of the old story, perhaps where characters like Takanuva are no longer anything but myth, and very few characters from the original story remain (and even then they'd be your stereotypical very old and wise types).

 

From there you have an infinite number of possible directions to take the story in; do they explore space?

 

You don't say?


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#19 Offline Ghabulous Ghoti

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Posted Mar 17 2014 - 06:18 AM

Well, if it HAD to be brought back....

 

The old building style. I've seen some concepts for BIONICLE sets built in the Hero Factory style, and it's one of the ugliest things I've ever seen. Besides, #nostalgia.

 

Story should be something that starts simple again, and while it can get complex, maybe not as complex. 1,000,000 or so years after the reforming of Spherus Magna, all the Matoran/Toa and the like have died, and it's a new generation of Agori/Glatorian. They know of legends of old, where there were mystical warriors, but they themselves aren't sure if they are real. Perhaps it can be on an island again for the beginning, because the rest of the world is all post-apocalyptic, due to a huge war/catastrophe. The existing Agori on this island speculate that there may be other land, but they don't know. Lot's of mystery on this island, with some new, demonic villain (akin to Terry in '01). Around 6 Glatorian, descendents of Mata Nui's friends, hold elemental powers. Perhaps in later years, as they explore the main lands, they can encounter a few surviving Matoran Universe denizens?

 

Story telling should be comics, with some books here and there, and maybe an online serial and a game of some kind (can be as sucky as the old games were on console, or as good as MNOG, just not a ###### smartphone app). Lots of cool art like '01 had, and some decent marketing.

 

But I still think it doesn't need to be brought back any time soon.


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#20 Offline Shadow Destroyer

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Posted Mar 17 2014 - 11:58 AM

If it was brought back, I'm guessing it would take place on Spherus Magna, far off in the future. That way, new fans could jump in, but there would still be cameos to please the older fans. It would be awesome if the Turaga in this new storyline were the original Toa mata, and there would also be six new toa and a new villain to fight. 


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#21 Offline Azani

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Posted Mar 17 2014 - 12:10 PM

If it was brought back, I'm guessing it would take place on Spherus Magna, far off in the future. That way, new fans could jump in, but there would still be cameos to please the older fans. It would be awesome if the Turaga in this new storyline were the original Toa mata, and there would also be six new toa and a new villain to fight. 

I don't think that the Toa Mata are capable of becoming Turaga in the canon, since they were created as Toa. Otherwise, your ideas are very good ones.


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Bionicle is returning in 2015!

#22 Offline fishers64

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Posted Mar 17 2014 - 12:47 PM

 

If it was brought back, I'm guessing it would take place on Spherus Magna, far off in the future. That way, new fans could jump in, but there would still be cameos to please the older fans. It would be awesome if the Turaga in this new storyline were the original Toa mata, and there would also be six new toa and a new villain to fight. 

I don't think that the Toa Mata are capable of becoming Turaga in the canon, since they were created as Toa. Otherwise, your ideas are very good ones.

 

3. Would it be possible for the Toa Nuva to become Turaga since they were never Matoran?

 

 

3) Yes, it would - any Toa can become a Turaga

 

It's possible.  


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#23 Offline Aanchir

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Posted Mar 17 2014 - 04:30 PM

Well, if it HAD to be brought back....
 
The old building style. I've seen some concepts for BIONICLE sets built in the Hero Factory style, and it's one of the ugliest things I've ever seen. Besides, #nostalgia.

I don't think this is ever likely to happen, considering that the Hero Factory building system is a later stage of development for constraction sets than the BIONICLE building system. It's not like Hero Factory's building system was created by outsiders who didn't understand the advantages and disadvantages of BIONICLE's building system. In fact, it was created by three BIONICLE designers, including the lead BIONICLE designer who had been involved in constraction themes since the Slizers. I can't see any reason why any LEGO designers would want their new sets to regress to a more primitive and less refined stage.

To use an analogy, it'd be like if the LEGO designers returned to this design of bricks from before the stud-and-tube system, or if they returned to this design for minifigures from before the articulated version. It's true, these things had some advantages over their modern counterparts. The brick allowed other bricks to slide underneath since there were no tubes blocking the way, and the slots could be used to hold paper or cardboard components. The minifigure had standard studs connecting the torso and legs, allowing for more customization opportunities with basic parts, and could fit through narrower openings. But in all of these cases, the "old version" was retired for a good reason, and that reason hasn't changed.

That does not, however, mean that the current building system couldn't be further developed into something even more advanced than what Hero Factory now offers. Perhaps even something that might even allow for a more BIONICLE-ish aesthetic, with lots of that theme's characteristic motifs like pistons and frameworks. Chances are if BIONICLE had not been cancelled, the new building system would have eventually been introduced for it instead of for Hero Factory. But it almost certainly would have looked different in order to better suit the BIONICLE aesthetic.

BIONICLE might even stand a chance as a minifigure-based theme... after all, the arms and legs of the new Hero Factory mini-robots look almost closer to Toa Mata limbs than to any previous Hero Factory figures. All you'd need is a new torso, some clever mask designs, a smaller Matoran design, and some concepts for settings or vehicles, and you'd be all set!

Finally, I hope you're not referring to my Tahu Revamp as "one of the ugliest things I've ever seen", because trash-talking someone's creations so harshly is extremely rude and impertinent even if you don't give any names. The idea that people would find it OK to trash-talk people's creations behind their backs is more sickening to me than any BIONICLE or Hero Factory model I've ever seen. You don't have to like everybody's creations, and you can go ahead and state your dislike of anybody's concept models any place you like. But you might try to be a little bit less demeaning in your choice of words if you want your opinions to be taken seriously. There's a big difference between saying you don't like how something looks and saying that it's just plain ugly.

Edited by Aanchir: Rachira of Time, Mar 17 2014 - 04:31 PM.

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#24 Offline Ghabulous Ghoti

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Posted Mar 17 2014 - 04:43 PM

 

Well, if it HAD to be brought back....
 
The old building style. I've seen some concepts for BIONICLE sets built in the Hero Factory style, and it's one of the ugliest things I've ever seen. Besides, #nostalgia.

 

Finally, I hope you're not referring to my Tahu Revamp as "one of the ugliest things I've ever seen", because trash-talking someone's creations so harshly is extremely rude and impertinent even if you don't give any names. The idea that people would find it OK to trash-talk people's creations behind their backs is more sickening to me than any BIONICLE or Hero Factory model I've ever seen. You don't have to like everybody's creations, and you can go ahead and state your dislike of anybody's concept models any place you like. But you might try to be a little bit less demeaning in your choice of words if you want your opinions to be taken seriously. There's a big difference between saying you don't like how something looks and saying that it's just plain ugly.

 

 

Sorry, I didn't mean any offense to you. Regardless of how well designed you could possibly make it in that style, the simple fact that it's that style will turn me away from it, because it just doesn't click with me. I apologize for my inappropriate choice of words there, and didn't think it would come off so harshly.

 

I understand why a hypothetical BIONICLE return probably won't use the same style, but for that reason, I probably wouldn't pick up more than one or two sets it's entire run.


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#25 Offline Kopekemaster

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Posted Mar 17 2014 - 06:03 PM

I would certainly be happy with just a continued story, but I doubt that, if LEGO were to bring back Bionicle, they would only do that. As much as many of us regret to admit, the fact is that LEGO made the story to sell the sets, not the other way around (though, incidentally, it happened that way for many of us here).

But I don't know if I would really buy many of the new sets (though I would, probably, buy a few). I would probably just focus on the story.


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#26 Offline Narglepuff the Protector

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Posted Mar 17 2014 - 11:23 PM

If Bionicle were to ever come back, I don't think it would be a good idea for it to be any sort of sequel or prequel. At the end of its run, the story just got way too convoluted with different retcons and strange reveals. The franchise/IP would never benefit from continuing all of that.

 

Rather, it should have the same sort of spirit that 2001 had. Things like the mystery surrounding the island of Mata Nui, and robotic beings living in a tribal society were really great. They were what got me hooked in the first place. Maybe it could start again in a similar setting that maintains the same tone and wonder. This would give them an opportunity to keep things like the Toa, Turaga, Kanohi masks, and others. After establishing this setting and tone, the story could go off in a different direction as it did before. Basically what I'd like is a reboot. Lego should probably keep the story simpler too, to keep the kids into it. Not episodic like Hero Factory, but just more linear.

 

As for sets, whatever Lego decides to do would be fine I guess. Masks, gears, and technic parts should probably return though, as the Hero Factory builds don't exactly feel "Bionicle."


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#27 Offline LordofBionicles

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Posted Mar 18 2014 - 01:24 AM

LEGO should call a press conference in which they only say: "BIONICLE will be brought back" and after that they leave the place.


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#28 Offline Azani

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Posted Mar 18 2014 - 06:12 PM

LEGO should call a press conference in which they only say: "BIONICLE will be brought back" and after that they leave the place.


I myself would like to have at least a little more information than that from Lego, if Bionicle were to be made an active theme again or sold to another company. Even if some fans didn't like the plans for Bionicle, the ones who were pleased would at least know that there wishes had been heard.

Edited by Artakha's Nephew, Mar 20 2014 - 11:40 AM.

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#29 Offline ShadowBionics

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Posted Mar 18 2014 - 07:11 PM

IF they were to bring back Bionicle, there would be a few pointers I would go with. 

 

And incoming hate messages starting.... now.

 

One of the things that bothered me and possibly new fans was how complicated the story got. Seriously how did we go to "six heroes, one destiny" on an island paradise to... a whole bunch of characters on three planets? And let's not even get into the alternate dimensions. One thing I've read from fans old an new from various sources was that because of how comprehensive the story line was, it became difficult, if not impossible, for new fans to fully get into the story. I guess I can understand, I mean unless you have access to older stuff and you barely became a fan in say 2006, you're not going to fully know like who are Tahu, Gali, Lewa, Vakama, etc. Since it all kind of built on itself so much, if you miss something, you'll get kinda lost. And then they did try some kind of soft reboots as someone mentioned before, but even then those still relied on the old storyline in some, if not most, aspects. It didn't bother me as a veteran fan, but for someone just getting into the story, it might confuse people.

 

So if they were to reboot it, and I mean REBOOT it, make a completely different story. NO ties to the old story. You can keep old characters (so long as you keep their more prominent qualities), or have new ones in their place. I'll probably get a lot of hate for saying this, but I would honestly prefer if they left the current storyline alone. Finish it up with the serials, but once it is done, leave it alone. Don't do anything else to it. Don't be like George Lucas with Indiana Jones and Star Wars, because I have a feeling deep down there will be much heartbreak and disappointment for fans of old. Not to mention it was already kind of hard keeping up with the story line as it was. So once the old story is done, just let it be. Meanwhile, work on a way to create a new story to build off of. One thing I like with the Amazing Spider-Man movie series for example is how it it a total reboot of the movie franchise, with no ties to the three movies from 2002-2007 (although it almost was, but that's another story). And so it's more easier for someone totally new to the story to get into it. But that doesn't mean they can't get into the Sam Raimi trilogy either. They can still go back and look at those movies as well. Likewise, anyone who gets into this new storyline could possibly get into the old one, too, given that it has better accessibility. I met someone who said they barely getting into the story for themselves, so she unfortunately missed out on it when and while it was going on, but of course you can still read the books and watch the movies if you can find them. So it's still possible for people to get into it, even years after it "ended" (I say that because 2010 was when the books and comics were no longer in production). Yet, it could also be kind of a good idea for those stories to see the light of day once again and be re-released into circulation for fans who either grew up with the series or are getting to know these stories and legends for the first time. That's what I liked about the graphic novels, seeing as these comics were getting to see the light of day once again, and it was an easy way for fans, new and old, to get their hands on some Bionicle history. So perhaps if they did a kind of "Generations" sort of deal (And no I'm not taking the idea from Sonic or Transformers), it'd be an excuse for us to see a mixture of the old with the new.

 

Now looking at the sets, I know a lot of people got tired of some of the later sets using the Piraka and Toa Inika builds. They were innovative when  they came out, but then people started getting tired of them. Not only that, but some of the color choices were also questionable. Was I the only one tired of the bluish-gray color used as a secondary color? You know the one. The Toa Metru had it, Toa Hordika, Mahri Nuparu, Mahri Kongu, Phantoka Lewa had splotches of it, and Phantoka Pohatu was bathed in it, aside from the orange patches he had on him. Someone even told me those before-mentioned sets looked dull and boring. The Glatorian at least tried to remedy that by bringing in older colors that went well and were more vibrant and interesting. A return to the old did some good, but alas it was short-lived. I almost wished we could see how they would have done with future sets had it not stopped with the BIONICLE STARZZZZZZ. So in doing a total reboot, they ought to start from the beginning. I don't mean the "beginning" beginning, I mean more so if they start off with something like the 2001 story then why not make it have that kind of vibe. I still remember the day I saw the commercial for the Toa Mata and thought they looked like the coolest thing ever, mostly based off how they looked. It was from there I got into the story for myself and the rest is history. So that's also a very key thing in getting it to work. As someone mentioned before me, Lego is a toy company, so it'd be almost pointless to have a story without toys to sell (which is why it is a brave and considerate thing for them to keep this story going despite there being no toys to sell). So at least with  a set story and characters, when you get to designing them, keep in mind the elements that made us like Tahu and Kopaka and Pohatu and co. in terms of how they looked and how they behaved. One reason people hate the Mistka/Phantoka was how it took what we were familiar with and just turned it upside down and then threw it out the window, sending it falling down down down until it hit the ground running with a giant SPLAT. That, and the Makuta were kind of weirdly designed, but more on that.

 

While it's good to be innovative, I think certain things and designs ought to be used sparingly, or else you'll have people call "OVERUSED!" on it, much like what happened to the Inika design that was used up through the Glatorian designs. And it's almost what's happening to the Hero Factroy sets. The 2.0 designs were very innovated and I was impressed with them, but I can see why it'd bother people, as it'd feel repetitive and boring after so long. Like building all 12 canister Bohrok, which I have done. but on a larger scale. I'm not saying it's bad (although the hollow back would need some fixing up), but it does have some tweaks that could be made, but at the moment I can't think of any ways to fix said flaws. Maybe try to vary things up now and again. For example, the Toa Mata had different body builds than say the Bohrok and Rahkshi versus like the Heroes who share a similar build to some of the villains they've gone up against. And I think the same can be said for the Piraka and Toa Inika, because they were so similar, as well as a majority of the sets that came after them. So all in all, keep what made the story good, include what you know worked and what we liked, and don't be afraid to vary it up now and again. Don't come up with these bizarre builds that either look ugly or don't even work in an attempt to make some variations of an already existing build, like with the canister Makuta. They did some things right, but then they did some weird things with the design, like using Matoran limbs on them, eg Krika and Gorast, which inhibited them greatly. One reason why I took some Bionicle and HF parts to modify Krika, and I plan to do the same for Gorast down the line. 

 

One thing I might add before I shut up is to essentially keep the story from getting so complicated. Going back to one of the statements I made, we went from one island to a whole universe (planet so to speak) to three planets somewhere down the line. I don't even know where exactly, and it just messes with my mind. Try to break it down a little bit before introducing all this stuff, otherwise you might scare off newer and younger fans. 2008's twist at the end even confused me and I needed someone to explain it to me because it was just so abrupt. And that someone was funny enough Brutaka when he declared Mata Nui WAS their universe, which made more sense to me then. So I guess I'm just saying to make a story that isn't as complicated and "Scary" as the first one was so new fans can get into it a little easier and they won't get frustrated and freaked out over how confusing and complicated it might seem at first. 

 

Okay, I am done. And okay, I'm ready for all the hate I'm gonna receive for speaking my mind! Bring it on!


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#30 Offline Dorkpool

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Posted Mar 18 2014 - 07:15 PM

How could you like the Amazing Spider-Man?! That was HORRIBLE.


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#31 Offline Aanchir

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Posted Mar 18 2014 - 08:17 PM

...if they were to reboot it, and I mean REBOOT it, make a completely different story. NO ties to the old story. You can keep old characters (so long as you keep their more prominent qualities), or have new ones in their place.


One thing that I think is problematic about this sort of strategy is that a lot of what made BIONICLE so magical and appealing was its mysteries, the greatest of those being the true nature of the Great Spirit and the Matoran Universe. That's the kind of thing that really loses some of its impact if you know it from the beginning — that's part of why it was such a closely-guarded secret for eight years.

You maintain that mystery, and maintain the same answer to that mystery, and it will be obvious to pretty much anyone familiar with the old storyline (or able to learn the basics of it over the Internet). And then it's not really a mystery at all. If you change that mystery, or change the outcome to that mystery, then suddenly you've abandoned one of the biggest factors in what made BIONICLE what it was. This is part of why I don't like the idea of this sort of reboot for BIONICLE.

While it's good to be innovative, I think certain things and designs ought to be used sparingly, or else you'll have people call "OVERUSED!" on it, much like what happened to the Inika design that was used up through the Glatorian designs. And it's almost what's happening to the Hero Factroy sets. The 2.0 designs were very innovated and I was impressed with them, but I can see why it'd bother people, as it'd feel repetitive and boring after so long. Like building all 12 canister Bohrok, which I have done. but on a larger scale. I'm not saying it's bad (although the hollow back would need some fixing up), but it does have some tweaks that could be made, but at the moment I can't think of any ways to fix said flaws. Maybe try to vary things up now and again. For example, the Toa Mata had different body builds than say the Bohrok and Rahkshi versus like the Heroes who share a similar build to some of the villains they've gone up against. And I think the same can be said for the Piraka and Toa Inika, because they were so similar, as well as a majority of the sets that came after them. So all in all, keep what made the story good, include what you know worked and what we liked, and don't be afraid to vary it up now and again. Don't come up with these bizarre builds that either look ugly or don't even work in an attempt to make some variations of an already existing build, like with the canister Makuta. They did some things right, but then they did some weird things with the design, like using Matoran limbs on them, eg Krika and Gorast, which inhibited them greatly. One reason why I took some Bionicle and HF parts to modify Krika, and I plan to do the same for Gorast down the line.


The problem I have with this is that in many cases, the way new series of sets introduced "different builds" was to introduce highly specialized new parts, and that really runs counter to the spirit of LEGO design. What would LEGO City be like if every two years they retired the car roof and windscreens from the previous year and introduced new ones that performed the same function but just looked different?

In my opinion, the way to keep builds from becoming repetitive isn't to introduce new parts year after year. It's to use existing parts differently. You can see this even in Hero Factory. There are a number of sets that use more or less the same build, but there are also many that are incredibly imaginative and offer a new and unique building experience, yet they don't rely on new torso pieces to do so. Toxic Reapa, Jawblade, Thornraxx, Bruizer, Frost Beast, Furno Jet Machine, and Breez Flea Machine are all built differently, but none of them relies on a new torso piece to do so. Even the handful of new torso pieces like the one in XT4 don't replace existing parts — they complement them.

Even BIONICLE proved the potential of this strategy. No two Barraki had the exact same torso build, but every part used to construct their torso skeletons was one that had existed previously. Other sets also demonstrated this kind of creativity. Strakk and Skrall are good examples. So is Kiina. All three had brand-new builds, but none of them relied on brand-new torso pieces to do so (in fact, only one of the three, Skrall, even needed a new armor piece). The Mahri Nui Matoran were another example: they were clones of each other, but they still had a brand-new build, and the only new parts they used were their weapons.

Of course, some of the sets like Ackar and Gelu WERE generic Inika clones. And many Hero Factory heroes have used more or less the same build. The reason? Because they could. As standard humanoid characters, they didn't need a new build when there was already a build tailor-made for those sorts of characters. As I said before, introducing brand-new parts that perform the same function as existing ones, purely for variety's sake, is counter to the spirit of LEGO design. The typical goal when designing new parts is to design them so that they will be useful in the long term, not just for a handful of sets. If you have to retire them after just being used in two waves of six sets, that usually means they weren't designed with as much versatility as they should have had in the first place. And hopefully in that case, whatever part comes in to replace them will be able to be used year after year without interruption.

I felt — and still feel — that the Toa Inika upper torso beam was the most useful torso piece ever used in the entire BIONICLE theme. As such, I feel like it earned its year-after-year appearances. And it bothered me how many people would embrace the possibility of getting anything "different" whether or not it was actually better.

Finally, you have to keep in mind that most people will only be interested in any LEGO theme for a few years, after which they'll grow out of the theme or even out of toys in general. We who stuck it out from the beginning are few in number compared to the people who stuck around for a few years and then lost interest. So by the time a person has been around long enough to grow tired of a certain piece, they've usually been around long enough to grow tired of the theme in general, and there's no longer much sense in trying to court them as a buyer.

There's a reason the constraction category has remained successful even after three years of using the same basic parts palette. Why shouldn't it? LEGO City has relied on the same basic parts palette for years, but has remained one of the top two LEGO themes for that entire time. It's a winning formula.

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#32 Offline Wrinkledlion X

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Posted Mar 20 2014 - 09:38 PM

I've gone on about this elsewhere, but here's my idea for Bionicle's return: Don't make it a return of Bionicle, make it a sequel to Bionicle. The fact that it takes place in the same world as Bionicle is something that's only ever hinted at, because this is a new LEGO constraction line that just happens to have easter eggs for older fans.

 

So, our hidden background: Hundreds of thousands of years ago, the Mata Nui robot crash-landed on what was once called Spherus Magna, and its camouflage activated, creating an enormous mountain range. (For the purpose of this series, let's say he landed face-up instead of face-down.) One end of the mountain range resembles the island of Mata Nui, in the form of a vast plateau, but it's never spelled out explicitly. Possibly, the Matoran and Agori merged together into a single race over time, and those can be our protagonists—LEGO can handle that however they like.

 

With this as a backdrop, you can tell whatever new stories you want with your main characters. On the rare occasion that characters go deep underground beneath the mountains, perhaps you can find ruins of dead cities and islands, but you don't have to explain it other than to say that those who lived there once are gone now. I think this approach would embrace the mysterious spirit of classic Bionicle, but it would allow for completely different stories to be told in a setting that's basically new. We wouldn't have to worry about young fans getting confused the way they did with Bionicle's crazy-complex story, but it would still be built on a solid foundation. 


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#33 Offline Dorkpool

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Posted Mar 21 2014 - 10:09 AM

I've gone on about this elsewhere, but here's my idea for Bionicle's return: Don't make it a return of Bionicle, make it a sequel to Bionicle. The fact that it takes place in the same world as Bionicle is something that's only ever hinted at, because this is a new LEGO constraction line that just happens to have easter eggs for older fans.

 

So, our hidden background: Hundreds of thousands of years ago, the Mata Nui robot crash-landed on what was once called Spherus Magna, and its camouflage activated, creating an enormous mountain range. (For the purpose of this series, let's say he landed face-up instead of face-down.) One end of the mountain range resembles the island of Mata Nui, in the form of a vast plateau, but it's never spelled out explicitly. Possibly, the Matoran and Agori merged together into a single race over time, and those can be our protagonists—LEGO can handle that however they like.

 

With this as a backdrop, you can tell whatever new stories you want with your main characters. On the rare occasion that characters go deep underground beneath the mountains, perhaps you can find ruins of dead cities and islands, but you don't have to explain it other than to say that those who lived there once are gone now. I think this approach would embrace the mysterious spirit of classic Bionicle, but it would allow for completely different stories to be told in a setting that's basically new. We wouldn't have to worry about young fans getting confused the way they did with Bionicle's crazy-complex story, but it would still be built on a solid foundation. 

That's...that's genius.


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#34 Offline JAG18

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Posted Mar 21 2014 - 10:56 AM

 

I've gone on about this elsewhere, but here's my idea for Bionicle's return: Don't make it a return of Bionicle, make it a sequel to Bionicle. The fact that it takes place in the same world as Bionicle is something that's only ever hinted at, because this is a new LEGO constraction line that just happens to have easter eggs for older fans.

 

So, our hidden background: Hundreds of thousands of years ago, the Mata Nui robot crash-landed on what was once called Spherus Magna, and its camouflage activated, creating an enormous mountain range. (For the purpose of this series, let's say he landed face-up instead of face-down.) One end of the mountain range resembles the island of Mata Nui, in the form of a vast plateau, but it's never spelled out explicitly. Possibly, the Matoran and Agori merged together into a single race over time, and those can be our protagonists—LEGO can handle that however they like.

 

With this as a backdrop, you can tell whatever new stories you want with your main characters. On the rare occasion that characters go deep underground beneath the mountains, perhaps you can find ruins of dead cities and islands, but you don't have to explain it other than to say that those who lived there once are gone now. I think this approach would embrace the mysterious spirit of classic Bionicle, but it would allow for completely different stories to be told in a setting that's basically new. We wouldn't have to worry about young fans getting confused the way they did with Bionicle's crazy-complex story, but it would still be built on a solid foundation. 

That's...that's genius.

 

If it weren't for the fact that the Mata Nui robot is being disassembled on Spherus Magna.   :P

 

(It's still a great story idea though.)


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#35 Offline Gatanui

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Posted Mar 21 2014 - 11:25 AM

I've gone on about this elsewhere, but here's my idea for Bionicle's return: Don't make it a return of Bionicle, make it a sequel to Bionicle. The fact that it takes place in the same world as Bionicle is something that's only ever hinted at, because this is a new LEGO constraction line that just happens to have easter eggs for older fans.
 
So, our hidden background: Hundreds of thousands of years ago, the Mata Nui robot crash-landed on what was once called Spherus Magna, and its camouflage activated, creating an enormous mountain range. (For the purpose of this series, let's say he landed face-up instead of face-down.) One end of the mountain range resembles the island of Mata Nui, in the form of a vast plateau, but it's never spelled out explicitly. Possibly, the Matoran and Agori merged together into a single race over time, and those can be our protagonists—LEGO can handle that however they like.
 
With this as a backdrop, you can tell whatever new stories you want with your main characters. On the rare occasion that characters go deep underground beneath the mountains, perhaps you can find ruins of dead cities and islands, but you don't have to explain it other than to say that those who lived there once are gone now. I think this approach would embrace the mysterious spirit of classic Bionicle, but it would allow for completely different stories to be told in a setting that's basically new. We wouldn't have to worry about young fans getting confused the way they did with Bionicle's crazy-complex story, but it would still be built on a solid foundation.

Not sure if you are going to believe me, but I had a VERY similar idea for a BIONICLE story taking place after the main story some time ago. :P And now that you have posted it here, I realize it would work perfectly for a BIONICLE sequel.

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#36 Offline Xelphene

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Posted Mar 21 2014 - 01:43 PM

Don't forget there were already some elements in place at the end of BIONICLE that could be used in a possible reboot set in the future:

Firstly, the golden-skinned being. It seems quite likely to me that it was designed by Teridax (it was made by fusing multiple organisms in a the way only Makuta would be able to do, and the fact it succeeded in fusing shows great knowledge, possibly gained from the Mata Nui robot's memory banks or something). Maybe it was a contingency plan for if he was defeated. Plus one of the being's ingredients was a green cloud-like substance (I forget the exact description) that sounds like antidermis. So the being may even have Teridax's mind, meaning Teridax could return as the antagonist of a BIONICLE story set in the future, not necessarily being recognised as Teridax by the protagonists. (The gap between the defeat of Teridax in robot form and his return could be explained as it taking a long time for the part of his consciousness in the gold being to awaken after the death of the rest of it.)

Secondly, the golden-skinned being brainwashed the Toa Hagah. They could return in a future storyline as corrupted shadow Toa (a bit like the evil Toa Mata copies from the original storyline). It wouldn't be necessary to confuse new BIONICLE fans with their backstory either, the information about them could be in the form of legends of "evil Toa" passed done the ages.

Thirdly, we know there are Toa that have never been written about that could become the new protagonists. Or the Mask of Life with Mata Nui inside could make more Toa, without requiring much backstory other than it being a "powerful artifact". They could even have a group of Matoran go on a good old-fashioned 2001-style quest to find the mask and become Toa.


Just my thoughts anyway. If LEGO wanted to reboot BIONICLE, there is plenty of material waiting in the canon to relaunch the story in a way that continues old tales but it is in no way necessary to know those old tales to understand the new story. And of course, there would be sets too.

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#37 Offline Azani

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Posted Mar 21 2014 - 01:58 PM

Don't forget there were already some elements in place at the end of BIONICLE that could be used in a possible reboot set in the future:

Firstly, the golden-skinned being. It seems quite likely to me that it was designed by Teridax (it was made by fusing multiple organisms in a the way only Makuta would be able to do, and the fact it succeeded in fusing shows great knowledge, possibly gained from the Mata Nui robot's memory banks or something). Maybe it was a contingency plan for if he was defeated. Plus one of the being's ingredients was a green cloud-like substance (I forget the exact description) that sounds like antidermis. So the being may even have Teridax's mind, meaning Teridax could return as the antagonist of a BIONICLE story set in the future, not necessarily being recognised as Teridax by the protagonists. (The gap between the defeat of Teridax in robot form and his return could be explained as it taking a long time for the part of his consciousness in the gold being to awaken after the death of the rest of it.)


I believe that the gold-skinned being was actually made by Skakdi on Zakaz during Teridax's reign, and that the green cloud was confirmed to have been Zaktan, who interestingly is able to pass for a green cloud nearly as well as a Makuta can.

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I can also be found under the username Azani on SolisMagna.com and the BioMediaProject forums. Check out SolisMagna.com, as it is exactly what we need to maintain interest in Bionicle. Also, I highly recommend Check out the script for Mysterious Island, an adaption/reboot of the 2001 Bionicle story which I am writing. It's also a musical.

 
Bionicle is returning in 2015!

#38 Offline bohrokmaster

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Posted Mar 21 2014 - 02:14 PM

If LEGO brought back BIONICLE, I would follow the serials (The Powers that Be and The Yesterday Quest) as the Main Storyline. I know many people would want the main story to take place years later but I personally prefer the main story where Mata Nui left Spherus Magna. I hope that for the sets, we would have a Toa Helryx set or a special edition set for the other four members of the Toa Hagah (Gaaki, Toa of Water, Bomonga, Toa of Earth, Kualus, Toa of Ice and Pouks, Toa of Stone.) And maybe have summer sets for Toa Orde, Toa Zaria and Toa Chiara, in terms of the main story.

 

It just seems logical to me in terms of the main story. and The Powers That Be and The Yesterday Quest serials on BIONICLEstory.com was a direct follow-up to the Battle of Bara Magna.


Edited by bohrokmaster, Mar 21 2014 - 02:21 PM.

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#BIONICLEISBACK   #BIONICLE2015

 

 


#39 Offline Toa Zaz

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Posted Mar 21 2014 - 02:52 PM

Preferably sets and story. I would conceivably be alright with just the story (although good sets to go along would be preferred), but from what we've experienced whenever the sets and consequently the drive by Lego/the story team to keep the story going and make money disappears, then the story gets far worse or stops entirely. Which really isn't how it could be, considering a sets-free story would be devoid of the necessity to incorporate all 20-something-ish sets into it (which, again, they basically stopped doing near the end).

 

If there was a good idea for a totally new story then I'd be all for it, but I'd prefer a sort of use-what-works type of approach and incorporate the aspects of the story that fans like- the characters, etc. Actually nostalgia in general would be a pretty smart approach to a Bionicle revival.

 

Also, even though an investment in a theatrical production of a cancelled line with an insecure fan base would be unlikely, a (good, like The Lego Movie) theatrical film would be awesome.


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#40 Offline Wrinkledlion X

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Posted Mar 21 2014 - 02:57 PM

 

 

I've gone on about this elsewhere, but here's my idea for Bionicle's return: Don't make it a return of Bionicle, make it a sequel to Bionicle. The fact that it takes place in the same world as Bionicle is something that's only ever hinted at, because this is a new LEGO constraction line that just happens to have easter eggs for older fans.

 

So, our hidden background: Hundreds of thousands of years ago, the Mata Nui robot crash-landed on what was once called Spherus Magna, and its camouflage activated, creating an enormous mountain range. (For the purpose of this series, let's say he landed face-up instead of face-down.) One end of the mountain range resembles the island of Mata Nui, in the form of a vast plateau, but it's never spelled out explicitly. Possibly, the Matoran and Agori merged together into a single race over time, and those can be our protagonists—LEGO can handle that however they like.

 

With this as a backdrop, you can tell whatever new stories you want with your main characters. On the rare occasion that characters go deep underground beneath the mountains, perhaps you can find ruins of dead cities and islands, but you don't have to explain it other than to say that those who lived there once are gone now. I think this approach would embrace the mysterious spirit of classic Bionicle, but it would allow for completely different stories to be told in a setting that's basically new. We wouldn't have to worry about young fans getting confused the way they did with Bionicle's crazy-complex story, but it would still be built on a solid foundation. 

That's...that's genius.

 

If it weren't for the fact that the Mata Nui robot is being disassembled on Spherus Magna.   :P

 

(It's still a great story idea though.)

 

Eeeh, we can ignore that like we ignore Mata Nui being face-down. I think that ending is rife with elements that are just waiting to be de-canonized! 


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