How Long Can Someone Survive in the Wrecked Mata Nui/Makuta Robot?

[Dorkpool]

I remember reading that staying in the 'dead' robot would eventually lead to suffocation. But how long can you stay before suffocating?

[Katuko]

As long as the robot is flying through space, shutting it down would be fatal. It would stop the artificial gravity from working, leaving everyone unable to stand on the ground properly. The heating system would be gone, and interstellar space is cold. Furthermore, we may assume that there is some form of air recycling going on, as leaving the robot shell open in a vacuum wouldn't be good for the inhabitants.

 

Now that it has landed, however, I imagine that the primary concern would be the lack of light and heat inside the 'bot. A lack of artificial gravity would not matter when there is real gravity on the planet the robot has landed on. The comic shows the Great Spirit robot lying face-down, though. This would turn Metru Nui upside down, leaving everyone to fall to their deaths on the dome ceiling when the gravity shut off. Let's hope it was not an instant effect.

[bonesiii]

Suffocation is unlikely as there may be several openings to the outside, and even before that, it had plants. Even laying on its side, when the artificial gravity eventually fails, many trees may remain rooted to the islands and keep recycling air. At least one hole was stated to be ripped up during the giant robot battle as seen by the inhabitants (according to a quote somebody put in a topic a while back here), and the massive hole in the back of the head may connect through tunnels to Metru Nui somewhere along the line.

 

Plus, seeds from many plants may start growing, esp. seaweed, on the side where the water and most of the earth settles after gravity failure, eventually resulting in more plants. But apparently the people are going to be dismantling the robot long before either result could happen (meaning many more holes will soon be opening up).

[GarryTheSkrall]

As long as the robot is flying through space, shutting it down would be fatal. It would stop the artificial gravity from working, leaving everyone unable to stand on the ground properly. The heating system would be gone, and interstellar space is cold. Furthermore, we may assume that there is some form of air recycling going on, as leaving the robot shell open in a vacuum wouldn't be good for the inhabitants.

 

Actually, wouldn't the cooling systems be more important, as they are in real spacecraft? Heating (and the loss of heat) is a transfer of energy from a hotter body to a colder one, and that can't really happen in a void. If anything, the robot's internal environment would start to heat up, because there's no air or anything outside to dissipate the heat into.

Edited March 16, 2014 by GarryTheSkrall

[Katuko]

Actually, wouldn't the cooling systems be more important, as they are in real spacecraft? Heating (and the loss of heat) is a transfer of energy from a hotter body to a colder one, and that can't really happen in a void. If anything, the robot's internal environment would start to heat up, because there's no air or anything outside to dissipate the heat into.

There is little matter in space, yes. Heat transfer happens through radiated heat (via electromagnetic waves) as well, though. Conduction, convection and radiation are the three main methods of heat transfer. A lot of heat also allows a lot of radiated heat, which may not be much at first but can add up if you don't have anything that puts heat back into your vessel. You can receive heat through sunlight, but consider other places such as Mars. On Mars you can get down to -90 degrees Celsius at night in summertime.

 

Cooling systems are very important, but that is because the engines generate an intense amount of heat at once. They still project a lot of it outwards, and if you let the system get too hot you break it. Thus using the engine as a heater can be done by routing the excess heat through the rest of the craft, but it is not necessarily the best way. In any case, shutting down the giant space-faring robot shuts down both heating and cooling systems alike, leaving you at the mercy of space. And with no generated heat, you are much more likely to lose heat through radiation if you are too far from a sun.

 

I assume there is a non-engine dependent heating system because if you land on an ice planet, you'd have to be able to keep yourself warm without being forced to fire up the main thrusters. The systems can still be closely connected, or perhaps just EE-based.

Edited March 16, 2014 by Katuko

[fishers64]

Is it really confirmed that the robot landed upside down? Where did this strange fact come from? (I keep head-cannoning it as false because I don't have any evidence to support it.)

 

Also I think the big deal is the huge barrier to sun and heat that the huge robot hull would likely create. It would be pretty cold in there, but I imagine a heating system could be rigged and some Ko-Matoran bribed to go in.

[JAG18]

Is it really confirmed that the robot landed upside down? Where did this strange fact come from? (I keep head-cannoning it as false because I don't have any evidence to support it.)

 

Also I think the big deal is the huge barrier to sun and heat that the huge robot hull would likely create. It would be pretty cold in there, but I imagine a heating system could be rigged and some Ko-Matoran bribed to go in.

I assume that most people believe the robot landed face down because that's what the picture in the last BIONICLE comic show us.

 

What I really want to know it why would someone want to go back in the robot considering that everyone is already taking it apart for building material..

[fishers64]

 

Is it really confirmed that the robot landed upside down? Where did this strange fact come from? (I keep head-cannoning it as false because I don't have any evidence to support it.)

 

Also I think the big deal is the huge barrier to sun and heat that the huge robot hull would likely create. It would be pretty cold in there, but I imagine a heating system could be rigged and some Ko-Matoran bribed to go in.

I assume that most people believe the robot landed face down because that's what the picture in the last BIONICLE comic show us.

 

What I really want to know it why would someone want to go back in the robot considering that everyone is already taking it apart for building material..

 

I never read the comic, so yeah. One of those things I need to get to...

 

Also, since the Agori dragged an entire giant robot back together, maybe they can flip one over?

[JAG18]

 

 

Is it really confirmed that the robot landed upside down? Where did this strange fact come from? (I keep head-cannoning it as false because I don't have any evidence to support it.)

 

Also I think the big deal is the huge barrier to sun and heat that the huge robot hull would likely create. It would be pretty cold in there, but I imagine a heating system could be rigged and some Ko-Matoran bribed to go in.

I assume that most people believe the robot landed face down because that's what the picture in the last BIONICLE comic show us.

 

What I really want to know it why would someone want to go back in the robot considering that everyone is already taking it apart for building material..

 

I never read the comic, so yeah. One of those things I need to get to...

 

Also, since the Agori dragged an entire giant robot back together, maybe they can flip one over?

 

I'm more inclined to believe that aliens built the Pyramids than to believe that a bunch of Agori flipped a giant robot.

 

Of course, if the Toa and OOMN helped that would a different story...

[fishers64]

I'm more inclined to believe that aliens built the Pyramids than to believe that a bunch of Agori flipped a giant robot.

 

Of course, if the Toa and OOMN helped that would a different story...

Or if all the Matoran helped too...

 

I don't know, I just don't like the idea of it being upside down. "Here lies the Great Spirit with his face in the dust."

[JAG18]

 

I'm more inclined to believe that aliens built the Pyramids than to believe that a bunch of Agori flipped a giant robot.

 

Of course, if the Toa and OOMN helped that would a different story...

Or if all the Matoran helped too...

 

I don't know, I just don't like the idea of it being upside down. "Here lies the Great Spirit with his face in the dust."

 

Well, I was thinking more along the lines of, "Use your elemental power!" But, yeah Matoran built it, Matoran can help flip it.

 

While, I personally agree with you--because if I saw a giant robot face down I would want to flip him over--considering that the BIONICLE are taking the Great Spirit apart for pieces I'm not sure how much respect they have for the Great Spirit Body.

Edited March 17, 2014 by JAG18

[bonesiii]

Heating (and the loss of heat) is a transfer of energy from a hotter body to a colder one, and that can't really happen in a void.

Katuko's longer answer covers this but I just wanted to add, a void is at absolute zero so is the coldest. It's just not a body, so the transfer of heat will technically be slower than if you got encased in absolute-zero-cold matter. But at that incredibly low temperature, it's still essentially insta-freeze. So you don't wanna be messin' around wit' it.

 

Is it really confirmed that the robot landed upside down?

Actually, the comic clearly showed it on its side. (Angled slightly upside-down.)

 

Could be one of many things that differ from source to source in the end; maybe canonically it's inaccurate but without an image for it, I would ignore that. And this may be confusing the main robot for the prototype which crashed face-first, but this was as it was disintegrating; it's not still there at all.

 

Image of the main robot's final resting pose.

 

Image of prototype robot's fall (and disintegration) (That was apparently not online anywhere yet except uncropped in scans of the comic page; this is one I've prepared for my retelling.)

 

 

As for flipping it to its back (the main robot), a tiny population of Agori was able to put pieces of the prototype together, so it may be possible. One portrayal even has the prototype originally falling on its face (I mean long ago, when its unstable power source originally made its pieces disconnect; this image), though I personally headcanon that out as others aren't consistent with that. It does make sense they might want to flip it before the inertial dampeners and gravity fail in case that would save lives of people they hadn't gotten out yet. (Think stubborn-in-face-of-volcano people who refuse to evacuate.)

 

As for pyramid versus giant-flipping, since the Agori's putting together of the prototype one was recent, it stands to reason that whatever means they used to get over the practical problems are likely still around. And there's actually a very simple possible explanation for how they might do it I thought of for retelling, that I don't mind revealing now. Humans making pyramids had no access to powers, or tools with powers; they had to use wood scaffolding or various similar means (it's still debated exactly what). But the original construction of both giant robots almost certainly involved gravity-nulling tools of some kind (or perhaps modes, with the power in each part itself; haven't yet decided which I like better). These would still be around, so evidently either the Agori had those tools, or remembered how to activate such powers in the parts. They might know how to do the same to enable easy flipping of the main giant. (Once it's weightless, just use ropes to maneuver it.)

[halowwe]

why not use the piece to explore other planets? if they reached that space travel stage.

[V-N]

why not use the piece to explore other planets? if they reached that space travel stage.

 

I don't think that the MU and Spherus Magna inhabitants will be able to understand the technology of the Great Spirit Robot enough to re-use it-- at least not for a while. Besides, they'll have plenty of time on their hands exploring the world and cultures of each other.

 

It still does make an intriguing thought, though, what it would be like for the new Spherus Magna citizens to start interplanetary exploration. I suppose they could eventually use the inside of the Great Spirit Robot as a recreation of an outer-space-like environment, to test space suits, heating equipment, and the like for a new space program.

[Pomegranate]

@V-N: Not to mention the abundant raw materials waiting to be re-purposed!


As for the robot landing on its side or front or whatever, well, it did get smashed in the back of the head with a chunk of planetoid, it's reasonable that it would collapse forward and end up on its front rather than back. To be fair, the mental image of the robot spinning on one foot following the collision and falling on its back like a cartoon character is hilarious and I would be totally okay with it

[SarracenianKaijin]

How long would you survive in a broken reality?

 

This seems like a dumb question.

 

EDIT: BY which I mean the question is dumb, not whoever asked it. ;)

Edited April 15, 2014 by SarracenianKaijin

[fishers64]

How long would you survive in a broken reality?

 

This seems like a dumb question.

 

EDIT: BY which I mean the question is dumb, not whoever asked it. ;)

Yes, but it has been established that the Mata Nui Robot =/= all of Bionicle reality. Therefore broken Mata Nui bot =/= broken reality.

[Pomegranate]

 

How long would you survive in a broken reality?

 

This seems like a dumb question.

 

EDIT: BY which I mean the question is dumb, not whoever asked it. ;)

Yes, but it has been established that the Mata Nui Robot =/= all of Bionicle reality. Therefore broken Mata Nui bot =/= broken reality.

 

It seems like reality on the inside though, with all the artificial gravity and temperature systems and stuff like that, and there are even masks of power that can affect the passage of time itself inside it. Imagine the entire world just shook violently, then went dark, and then suddenly gravity shifted dramatically, and then it got very, very cold, and the stars went out... It sounds like a broken reality to me, only difference is that there's a way to get out of it into a normal reality. And it happens to be through a giant foot, among other things

[fishers64]

 

 

How long would you survive in a broken reality?

 

This seems like a dumb question.

 

EDIT: BY which I mean the question is dumb, not whoever asked it. ;)

Yes, but it has been established that the Mata Nui Robot =/= all of Bionicle reality. Therefore broken Mata Nui bot =/= broken reality.

 

It seems like reality on the inside though, with all the artificial gravity and temperature systems and stuff like that, and there are even masks of power that can affect the passage of time itself inside it. Imagine the entire world just shook violently, then went dark, and then suddenly gravity shifted dramatically, and then it got very, very cold, and the stars went out... It sounds like a broken reality to me, only difference is that there's a way to get out of it into a normal reality. And it happens to be through a giant foot, among other things

 

Actually it was a giant head, but whatever. Also "seeming like reality" =/= reality.

 

But then again, you can argue that about any reality that has experienced some sort of tragedy or other. You can argue that post-Shattering, pre-Reforming SM is a broken reality. By extension, it's still a broken reality because of Velika and the missing GBs and...you get the point. In theory, you could argue that about almost any fictional universe - they are all broken realities. (You could then argue that we live in one too, because it isn't perfect.) Then you could say, based on all those broken realities, that the broken reality survival rate is pretty good.

 

After all, the Agori/Glatorian lived in one for 100,000 years.

Edited April 16, 2014 by fishers64

[bonesiii]

It seems like reality on the inside though

Because it's part of the same reality. (Fictional one.) The inside of a house seems like reality just like the outside, because they both are. Same with the inside of an advanced spaceship, which is essentially what it is.

 

and there are even masks of power that can affect the passage of time itself inside it.

The masks affect the passage of time (or whatever else is each mask's effect) outside as well. You're probably talking about the special relationship the Legendary Masks, namely the Vahi, have with it, but this makes sense as both are made of the artificial protodermis, and the Legendaries are manifestations of the most basic powers in that protodermis.

 

But in a sense, it kind of is a different reality -- but not of the sort that shutting it down makes survival impossible per se. Think of it as nested realities -- the MU nested inside the "real" reality around it. When the inner one breaks, your reality is, in a manner of speaking, transferred to the more fundamental, universe-wide reality (I mean the actual Bionicle universe here, not in the sense of Matoran Universe, which is a poetic name). To put it another way, the universe-wide reality is not magically banned from existing inside the container; the container just alters it while it's powered up. Powering it down should, essentially, restore the inside to how things work on the outside (not quite this simple but it's the basic idea).

[SarracenianKaijin]

People please, with your spaceships and robots.

 

Let's not be so mundane and boring about this. Was Discworld just "a place on some turtle"? Didn't think so.

[bonesiii]

Sar, please stop trying to impose your personal tastes on others. We get it -- you don't like the more sci-fi elements of Bionicle. But others do, and that's what it is. And has been since the start ("robots on the tropical island", canisters coming fromthe sky, etc.). Please keep your posts on-topic or don't waste space with them. (Besides, why must such things be boring? That's really just an arbitrary philosphy. IMO anything that's possible -- fictionally, of course, but also in real life -- can be interesting, enjoyable, and meaningful. You just have to choose to be open-minded about it.) It isn't wrong for those of us who enjoy Bionicle for what it is to do so.

Edited April 16, 2014 by bonesiii

[SarracenianKaijin]

Sar, please stop trying to impose your personal tastes on others. We get it -- you don't like the more sci-fi elements of Bionicle. But others do, and that's what it is. Please keep your posts on-topic or don't waste space with them. (Besides,boredom.)

I never knew friendly jabs and encouragement of more imaginative thought is now "imposing of personal taste". And how was I out-of-topic, when my post clearly had to do wih the conversation a hand.

 

Let's keep an open-mind about this, surely now?

Edited April 16, 2014 by SarracenianKaijin

[bonesiii]

Being friendly is one thing -- even a friendly jab -- but to make it sound like it's a crime for people to like something different than you is not okay. And when every single post you make, almost, is such an attack, it doesn't look at all like a friendly jab and even if it was, it gets old fast. (It becomes just spam really, and that can be used as an excuse for trolling. You've already been warned about this.)

 

And an open mind is exactly what I'm supporting; you have some interesting perspectives that I think can benefit discussion, but it is wrong to treat it as a war of those ideas against others. If you really do have a taste that makes you see the one as not desirable, then okay -- you're entitled to it. But you should respect others who don't share that taste. And I would argue that you could benefit from instead trying to be open to a synthesis of the two.

 

Now this time I'm making this an official warning. Return to the subject this topic is about (it isn't about which parts of Bionicle you like or don't, it's about the question in the firstpost), and stop trying to impose your tastes on others. Future posts that ignore BZP rules may be deleted, and other punishments may be issued as stated in my previous PM warning to you.

Edited April 16, 2014 by bonesiii

[SarracenianKaijin]

Anyway, as to how reality works, I think it should be noted how gravity seems to work differently within Mata Nui as well. How else don't the islands just slide off when Mata Nui is standing.

 

proceed message from bonesii that will surely leave you wondering just what happened:

Edited April 17, 2014 by SarracenianKaijin
I have removed the off-topic part of this post -- and now a second edit that again added off-topic content. -bones

[bonesiii]

Thanks for at least saying something on-topic that time (that's one simple example of a rule you did break clearly). As I told you in our PM conversation, it's not about a popularity contest for your actions, but that you agree to follow BZP rules when you join and respect staff decisions as to how to implement them. Claiming you didn't break the rules when you clearly did, or that "most people would like what I did anyways" is not an excuse.

 

On-topic: Correct; there is artificial gravity inside, as was mentioned in another post higher up. (And obviously a nulling field against external gravity.) Once the giant robot powers down, both switch off, and (since it's on its side), one side becomes down. This IMO would be the biggest problem for anybody still inside, likely deadly although survival is possible. (And it would make for an awesome story, heh.)

[Phovos]

I thought you'd posted in the wrong thread for a moment.

 

I think being inside the giant dead robot body doesn't that people would suffocate or die or anything. In fact, apart from it being a bit chilly, it's probably perfectly habitable, if a bit chilly deeper down inside the robot. I thought the issue would be the seas of water/protodermis that slosh around inside him, which may or may not leak out and possibly flood the place.

[Pomegranate]

I thought you'd posted in the wrong thread for a moment.

 

I think being inside the giant dead robot body doesn't that people would suffocate or die or anything. In fact, apart from it being a bit chilly, it's probably perfectly habitable, if a bit chilly deeper down inside the robot. I thought the issue would be the seas of water/protodermis that slosh around inside him, which may or may not leak out and possibly flood the place.

Oh dear, I completely forgot about all those protodermic seas... that could get very messy.

[TERIDAX941]

 

I thought you'd posted in the wrong thread for a moment.

 

I think being inside the giant dead robot body doesn't that people would suffocate or die or anything. In fact, apart from it being a bit chilly, it's probably perfectly habitable, if a bit chilly deeper down inside the robot. I thought the issue would be the seas of water/protodermis that slosh around inside him, which may or may not leak out and possibly flood the place.

Oh dear, I completely forgot about all those protodermic seas... that could get very messy.

 

They do a good job of giving an example of what happens when the Great Spirit Robot shuts down in the Kingdom alternate universe, when Matoro fails to save Mata Nui. Apparently, parts of the universe caved in, letting sea water from Aqua Magna flood in, which mixed with the universes energies making even more mutating pit water, and everyone had to evacuate minus the Zyglak and Makuta. Of course, Mata Nui was still under the ocean at that time, so circumstances were a bit more drastic, but it does paint a good picture of how dire the situation could easily get.

[fishers64]

Actually, that's an interesting thought, considering that the Matoran were going to disassemble the bot. How would they do it without flooding SM? Do they have enough Toa of Water?

 

I'm not sure how the protodermic seas would affect things inside, although if the bot was on its side the water would slosh downwards, possibly flooding everything below the level. Maybe it would be a huge tsunami that would smash buildings/destroy stuff/wash everything away. Depends on whether gravity fails suddenly or gradually. The gravity generators could fail in varying orders, leaving weird waterfalls going on.

 

Thereby making survival dependent on having a Miru/Kadin or water-breathing or both.

Edited April 18, 2014 by fishers64