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The Official RPG Planning Topic


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#921 Online Hatty Hattington

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Posted Sep 19 2014 - 11:45 AM

Rough Draft v2

 

  • The Fool: The fool is one of the most powerful and the most worthless of all the Major Arcana. It is in the shape of a coin which is worth absolutely nothing. It also has grants the one who owns it “all the luck”. They cannot be affected by a negative luck-based outcome.

  • The Magician: The Magician is a ring. It bears the symbol of infinity, and grants the user to ability to turn a power (Kanohi, Elemental, unique abilities) against someone who would strike the wielder.

  • The High Priestess: Those who wear the veil of The High Priestess can know everything about the person they look at while wearing the veil.

  • The Empress: A heart-shaped pendant affixed to a necklace, the Empress will make whoever the wearer desires to instantly become infatuated with them.

  • The Emperor: A ring, the wearer holds knowledge over martial prowess.

  • The Hierophant: A set of plain white robes, the wearer’s voice is empowered by The Hierophant, making the speaker very persuasive.

  • The Lovers: A ring decorated with hearts, whoever wears The Lovers can use them as a guide to whatever they wish.

  • The Chariot: A ring with a horse symbol on it, the person who holds it cannot be defeated in open combat.

  • Strength: A fur coat, the wearer is granted immense strength at the cost of being unable to harm those who are unarmed.

  • The Hermit: The Hermit is a lantern that when lit, transports the holder and anything they hold into a pocket dimension. The Hermit’s candle, when extinguished transports the holder and anything they hold back to where they lit the candle.

  • The Wheel of Fortune: A ring that can make almost anything happen, at the cost of being unable to change the status quo.

  • Justice: A hammer that instantly inflicts a fitting punishment upon whoever is struck by the hammer.

  • The Hanged Man: A plain belt made out of rope, anyone who wears The Hanged Man gains knowledge of one thing that they wish.

  • Death: A pair of gauntlets which cause the wearer to make all they touch turn into gold. It does not affect the living.

  • Temperance: A pair of pants for a straightjacket, Temperance allows the wearer to place invisible bonds upon a person they touch. These bonds only work if the person who wears Temperance moderates themself.

  • The Devil: A ring that will grant the wearer any knowledge they seek, the price being negotiable depending upon the knowledge sought.

  • The Tower: A ring bearing the symbol of a chess rook, The Tower permits the wearer to use all the Major Arcana at once.

  • The Star: A ring bearing the symbol of a cardinal star that grants the wearer the power of hope.

  • The Moon: A ring bearing the symbol of a sphere that grants the wearer to create powerful illusions, the only limitation being on how well they can craft an illusion.

  • The Sun: A ring bearing the symbol of a sun that can heal physical injuries of anyone aside from the wearer.

  • Judgement: A mighty sword, anyone who wields Judgement can tell if others are lying.

  • The World: The Ultimate Prize.



































 

Luminary

 

The World moves once again. So much has happened that we were forced to leave our home, taking our savior and protector with us...

 

...But where others failed and vanished from our sight, we arrived safely at our new home. We called it Gaia Magna. Once we arrived upon Gaia, we found that our creators had left it to us, in case that we wrecked the home we were built on. Even better, they left us “gifts”, twenty-two artifacts to ensure that we would never again know the war and violence we faced. We even got the chance to name them. The Major Arcana. Greater Mysteries.

 

Years passed. Cities rose and fell. We ignored the teachings of our ancestors and creators, and we paid dearly for it. We lost the Major Arcana. We fought, died, and knew pain once more. Now Gaia is painted in the blood of other’s enemies, and the long-lost Major Arcana now finally show their true nature. Not tools to keep the peace like we had once believed.

 

But instead, weapons to wage nothing short of extinction against those who run afoul of the wielders. Prepare yourself, those-who-come-after, this story is not one of heroes. It is to warn you of the dangers that come from power, greed, and desire. It is to show you the consequences of your actions, and above all, it is to warn you of the twenty-two weapons that now lay buried on The World.

 

-

 

Welcome. This is Luminary. By no means will this be a tale of the caliber that my peers and seniors have written. This story shall not begin like other stories. It will begin, and it will end. The object of this story is simple. By making a character, you are now in direct competition with everyone else in this game. The object of this story, or as some would call it “a game”, is simple. There are twenty-two artifacts known as the Major Arcana. All of them give you powers beyond that of any character. In them, you will be able to control and manipulate the story in ways beyond most are comfortable with. The trick is not wielding them, but first finding them in the ruins, puzzles and traps they were hidden in. Then you must hold onto them, all while searching for the Ultimate Prize. I offer you nothing short of absolute power, so long as you are capable of accomplishing these two tricks. Good hunting.

 

-

 

On Gaia Magna;

 

Gaia Magna is a world created by the Great Beings in the image of Spherus Magna. For this particular tale, the section of Bara Magna that was most habitable by those-who-came-before shall be used. The exceptions that the six villages that would have been most familiar to those who knew of them are now gone, replaced by tents and shantytowns, temporary respites for killers, murderers and fanatics. What was once “Atero” upon the homeworld, is now a set of ruins made in Atero’s image. Other than this, there are few inconsistencies.

 

On Organizations;

  • The Justicars:

    • On the homeworld, The Justicars were the primary peacekeepers, originally organized out of Glatorian, they later came to include Toa, Agori, Matoran, and other beings with desire to uphold the law. They were the ones who tried to organize the exodus from the homeworld after the wars broke out. As the player, you could create a member of the Justicars, or a captain, etc. The choice, is yours!

      • The Commander of The Justicars is a Glatorian called Valum, her company of Justicars is centered in the city of Tesera. While the number of Justicars is around a hundred, it’s been routinely proven that there simply are not enough Justicars to patrol all the “civilized” land on Gaia. Other Justicar captains exist in the other settlements, but they commonly lack the manpower or resources as their Tesera counterparts.

  • Bandits:

    • Various groups of bandits not only prowl the wilderness, but many often are centered in the various shanty towns across Gaia. Say, you like looting and pillaging right? How about creating your own bandit gang and all that awesomely fun stuff, yea?

      • The Aterian Vandals.

      • The Vandals are a group of Bandits lead by the infamous Mae Huna. The Vandals themselves seek to collect the Major Arcana so that they could set up an empire across Gaia.

 

On Species:

A wide variety of species are available for you to play! Inspired by not only the brainstorming sessions that have taken place within recent months for the BZPRPG, but by other recent creative endeavors! Here’s the list of species that are playable at the start of the game:

  • The Matoran Species. Here is the list of approved elements:

    • Air

    • Earth

    • Fire

    • Gravity

    • Ice

    • Iron

    • Jungle/the Green

    • Lightning

    • Magnetism

    • Plasma

    • Psionics (Psionics itself cannot be used in it’s fullness… Since the unifications of the Matoran and Dasaka societies, Psionic Toa have become much more common, following the Daska disciplines shown below.)

      • Sighteye

      • Willhammer

      • Soulsword

      • Mindarm

        • All Psionic Toa have access to the Ideatalk discipline.

    • Sand

    • Sonics

    • Stone/Rock

    • Water

  • Agori

  • Glatorian

  • Vortixx

  • Skakdi (Skakdi have access to the following vision powers:)

    • Heat Vision

    • Impact Vision

    • Infrared Vision

    • Laser Vision

    • Thermal Imaging

    • Telescopic Vision

    • X-Ray Vision

  • Vekhatu [ve-peki-atu] (Credit goes to Demi for creating the Vekhatu)

    • - Place of origin: Artidax.

    • - Social structure: Consists of beings that identify themselves as females. Matriarchy. Very protective of their race and very war-like. Some of them are nomads, and travel in small group or alone around the world. Such nomads aren’t shunned as outcasts or exiles.

    • - Architecture: Jagged dark crystals that serve as entrances to ant-like crystal tunnels underground.

    • - Can imbue weapons/tools with confusing/stunning/demoralizing effects.

    • - Can reconstitute lost body parts with wide range of crystals or dead  members of their own species (considered utterly dishonoring for both dead and alive members).

    • - Weaknesses: Highly susceptible to stunning/demoralizing/mental effects, it ruins mental links between their crystals, leading to losing control over their own bodies. Highly susceptible to effects that can prevent them from regaining standard form, leading to weakening of mental links and eventual death. Can also die from enduring too much damage to their structure and shattering to pieces. Highly susceptible to blunt weapons that can crack crystals, making them not suitable for their forms.

    • -Appearance: Vekhatu share a good deal of their appearance to Vortixx, although made entirely out of crystals.

  • Brutaka’s Species:

    • No formal name

    • Great strength and intelligence

    • Four arms, two of them “retractable”

    • Emits raw energy

    • Resistance to poisons, venoms, mutagen and antidermis

    • Can absorb antidermis for more strength and powers.

 

On Rules:

  • God-Modding, Meta-Gaming, Bunnying, Auto-hitting, and other things similar to those things are not allowed without express permission from the owner’s character.

  • Use IC and OOC tags to separate your posts.

  • No OOC-only posts.

  • All character profiles must accurately represent the strengths and weaknesses of the character.

  • Killing or injuring a character you do not control without permission is not allowed.

  • The GMs have full control over the world. The fact that possess a Major Arcana means that through skill (and some luck), you have come to possess an in-game item that allows you to influence the world to a greater degree than normal. However, the GMs have the final say over what happens. Do not push your luck.

  • As this is a competitive environment, you are all asked to be polite and courteous to others in all situations. If your character has been defeated, be a good sport about the situation. If any unsportsmanlike actions are taking place in the discussion thread, in the game, or anywhere else, the good news is that those who are performing said actions will still be able to continue on. The bad news is that all participants will be removed from the game. Be polite and courteous, this will be your only warning.

  • If a Major Arcana is used upon your character, the GMs ask that you respectably follow the Major Arcana’s effects. As the Major Arcana are GM devices, they should be treated with the same level of respect as the GMs. Their effects are not questionable in any way.

  • The following Kanohi are banned:

    • Komau

    • Elda

    • Garai

    • Mohtrek

    • The Mask of Emulation

    • Avohkii

    • Kraahkan

    • The Mask of Light and Shadow

    • Rua

    • Aki

    • The Mask of Mutation

    • The Mask of Possibilities

    • Rode

    • Olmak

    • The Mask of Elemental Energy

    • The Mask of Clairivoiancy

    • Olisi

Edited by Hatty Hattington, Sep 19 2014 - 11:57 AM.

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#922 Offline The Lorax

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Posted Sep 19 2014 - 05:28 PM

As for The Tower, all of The Major Arcana are differing artifacts, and the chances of someone getting their hands on two artifacts are pretty slim in my opinion. That, and how practical is it to run around holding a lantern, wearing a veil, wearing robes, and holding a sword?

 

EDIT: Also, all of the Major Arcana operate under "Exact Words" rules. If that changes your perception in any way.

 

 

Even if there are ways to combat it, whoever holds The Tower is still going to be game-breaking simply because of what it would take to match its power - a huge team of other characters bearing all of the other artifacts. I agree it is cool to have a combined ability artifact, but I don't think this is the way to do that, unless it was held from the beginning by a main antagonist.

 

What if The Tower started out powerless, but gained the abilities of other artifacts that it came into contact with? That way, it can still become very powerful, but only if the holder puts in a large amount of effort to empower it through IC interactions. Power comes at a price, and the greater the power, the greater the price of obtaining it IC should be.


Edited by The Lorax, Sep 19 2014 - 05:29 PM.

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#923 Offline Toa Levacius Zehvor

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Posted Sep 19 2014 - 07:30 PM

What if The Tower started out powerless, but gained the abilities of other artifacts that it came into contact with? That way, it can still become very powerful, but only if the holder puts in a large amount of effort to empower it through IC interactions. Power comes at a price, and the greater the power, the greater the price of obtaining it IC should be.

 

The way I interpreted it, The Tower is powerless on its own; it allows the wielder to use every Major Arcana they have. Perhaps I'm wrong? In any case, I'd still prefer to see a power absorbing artifact than a "by your powers combined" one; once more, the narrative needs attention.

 

@ Hatty; Now, not only is the species lists unchanged, but it's longer, and even less relevant to the plot. The Kanohi ban list holds the same problem, being done in the longest way possible, rather than attempting to conserve space and prevent unnecessary scrolling.

 

Suggestions from the previous page still stand, as do the questions which arise from them. Why do you have the setting on another-yet-identical planet, rather than simply keeping close to home? Why is the "allowed" list basically smaller than the "disallowed" list for species, which is basically the most defining character choice for most players (defining backstory, abilities, some elements of personality, etc.)?

 

Apologies if this comes off as a tad harsh, but after you've watched dozens of RPGs collapse, you tend to gain a perspective on what works and what doesn't. At the moment, this set-up offers a week or two of action, followed by either the yourself or one of the more active players getting sick/busy/uninterested, followed by the others, followed by infrequent posts, followed by a shut down. You'll want to do everything it takes to avoid that.

 

-Toa Levacius Zehvor :flagusa:


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#924 Online Hatty Hattington

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Posted Sep 22 2014 - 06:48 AM

The Tower is powerless on its own. Much like the actual Tarot. When someone posses at least two Major Arcana, and The Tower, they can use the two Major Arcana at once.

 

When you open up a player's manual for Dungeon's and Dragons, which is basically what we base all RPGs on, you have a list of pre-made species. It's as relevant to the plot as you want it to be. Same with items. Don't try to say that it's "Irrelevant", because your theory has already been tested. If I was going to make a list of all banned species, I assure you it would be much, much longer than this page. I can easily just hide it all in a spoiler tag (unless this is banned). Otherwise, it's going to require you to scroll. All first pages of an RPG cause you to do this. You have to flip through the first 200 pages of a player's manual to get to the spell list at the back end of the book. Until you provide an actual, realistic approach to this "problem", then the list will stay the same unless suggested otherwise.

 

I have the list of species as such, due to their prior experiences with them. I am more than open to having new species being put into the RPG, but I lack the time, experience, and skill to come up with rules for each and every species that I feel is suitable to fit in this environment.

 

As for the setting, I have a more personal problem with canon settings. If I was going to set it on Bara Magna, I'd have to establish a point in time where this all happens. If I do this, I'll have to either expand, or decrease the number of items on said lists. Trying to conform to a canon setting limits the amount of creativity I can have with this RPG, and if I wanted to introduce something extraordinary, I'd have to explain why the frack none of the canon characters ever discovered it. I dislike it, not because it requires more work, but it requires more explaining, shoehorning, and hand-waving than I am ever comfortable with and trying to fit this RPG in such a canon setting feels innately wrong.


Edited by Hatty Hattington, Sep 22 2014 - 06:53 AM.

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#925 Offline Toa Levacius Zehvor

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Posted Sep 22 2014 - 08:56 AM

When you open up a player's manual for Dungeon's and Dragons, which is basically what we base all RPGs on, you have a list of pre-made species. It's as relevant to the plot as you want it to be. Same with items. Don't try to say that it's "Irrelevant", because your theory has already been tested. If I was going to make a list of all banned species, I assure you it would be much, much longer than this page. I can easily just hide it all in a spoiler tag (unless this is banned). Otherwise, it's going to require you to scroll. All first pages of an RPG cause you to do this. You have to flip through the first 200 pages of a player's manual to get to the spell list at the back end of the book. Until you provide an actual, realistic approach to this "problem", then the list will stay the same unless suggested otherwise.

 

An actual, realistic approach to the problem would be the way Midnight City and City in the Dark do it. The first doesn't have a species list! The second does, but it uses it to detail the local culture of the place, and introduces new species. That's just two ways to do it, which are both superior to the one you provided. That aside, D&D is a tabletop RPG, not a text based one. It uses numbers and figures, so every race needs to have statistics. Text based RPGs? They don't do that.

 

The thing about species is, you don't need to make a write up for every one. That's the players job. Your job is to either approve it, or deny it. Rule of thumb - unless you have to deny at least one profile, you didn't give the players enough freedom in your RPG. That, or you don't have any players.

 

The canon setting doesn't need to limit pretty much anything. Spherus Magna is massive, and as we don't know what happens in the future, allows pretty much anything. Heck, I remember an RPG called Aloft set on a floating, Great Being made city on Bota Magna, surrounded by massive Shadow of the Colossus style ruins. One of them had dragons in it, for crying out loud. And the Matoran Universe on its own is so massive virtually none of it is explored in canon. You don't need to "conform" to canon - just use it so you can explain less.

 

-Toa Levacius Zehvor :flagusa:


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#926 Online Hatty Hattington

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Posted Sep 22 2014 - 09:13 AM

I'm keeping the non-canon setting, I already have made plans.

 

As for species, I made an addendum on the final draft about submitting extra species. Unless there are any major, outstanding concerns, I will proceed to submit the RPG.


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#927 Offline Silvan Haven

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Posted Sep 22 2014 - 10:52 AM

 

I can easily just hide it all in a spoiler tag (unless this is banned).

 

BZP rules. Spoiler tags can only be used for spoilers.

 

I would also suggest that you move the Dasaka to the bottom of the list. The sub section for them sort of breaks the flow and makes it look a bit more cluttered.


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"I serve the weak. I serve the helpless. I am their sword and their shield. If you want to strike at them, you must go through me, and I am not so easily moved."


#928 Offline Toa Levacius Zehvor

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Posted Sep 25 2014 - 10:48 PM

Thoughts for the forum -

 

Over the years, there's been an increasing level of accepted differences from the "canon" story. Things like love, male and female Matoran of the same element, blood, and so forth are pretty much accepted as being applicable. From immediate memory -

 

- Reproduction is pretty much a given now for MU species, to the tears of biologists everywhere.

- Elemental affiliation does not determine gender.

- Love, as the first two might lead one to assume, is in.

- MU species are considerably fleshier, to the point of bleeding.

- Apparently clothes are becoming a thing now?

- Skakdi and Vortixx are accepted as being rather common species.

- Corpses are assumed; Red Star teleportation isn't really a thing.

- Eating is done manually, not via weird energy absorption or whatever.

- Toa Code? Who needs that?

- One in every two people are Toa. The police? Toa. The shopkeeper? He's a Toa. Any other NPC you're too lazy to pull out a species list for? Also a Toa. Heck, even the Dark Hunters and Brotherhood are mostly made of Toa, just FYI.

- ...

 

So, that was a quick post thrown together between English work. There's probably a lot more that I'm not thinking of because I have poems in my brain, but that's no issue. I apologize for the snark bleeding into a few, as the last one in particular annoys me (if your first instinct for an NPC species is making a character a Toa, you're a lazy and unimaginative writer, no exceptions, offense intended), and the clothes one I just find more amusing than anything ("Look at me, the creature whose body is naturally plated in armor, look at my new suit!") Heck, at point, even the first one doesn't bother me anymore; I just bang my head out trying to figure it out biologically.

 

Anyways, are there any others anyone else can think of? Any anyone wants to debate? Preferably the last one, because I'd really like to see others support on that one not being a thing?

 

-Toa Levacius Zehvor :flagusa:


Edited by Toa Levacius Zehvor, Sep 25 2014 - 10:48 PM.

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#929 Offline The Lorax

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Posted Sep 25 2014 - 11:08 PM

- Skakdi and Vortixx are accepted as being rather common species.

- One in every two people are Toa.

 

 

These two would have to be put down to the influence of the BZPRPG, where (nerfed) Skakdi and Vortixx are the two main non-matoran/toa species. Kind of the default for beings who aren't the real defeault.

 

And as for the real default, yes, that is unfortunate, both from the canon MU demographics and in terms of character diversity and species meaning something. However, there may be some hope on this front. Data from the annual-ish census of BZPRPG charaters shows that the percentage of toa characters has fallen slightly with each census that has been taken. Granted, it was a small drop, from 61% to 56%, but I'm choosing to look on the bright side here.


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#930 Offline delilah

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Posted Sep 27 2014 - 11:20 AM

(if your first instinct for an NPC species is making a character a Toa, you're a lazy and unimaginative writer, no exceptions, offense intended)

 

You must be fun at parties.


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#931 Offline Toa Levacius Zehvor

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Posted Sep 27 2014 - 01:36 PM

(if your first instinct for an NPC species is making a character a Toa, you're a lazy and unimaginative writer, no exceptions, offense intended)

 

You must be fun at parties.

 

Generally, yes. Yes I am. Mostly on account of being neither lazy, nor unimaginative. But enough about me; is there something you wish to add to the topic?

 

And as for the real default, yes, that is unfortunate, both from the canon MU demographics and in terms of character diversity and species meaning something. However, there may be some hope on this front. Data from the annual-ish census of BZPRPG charaters shows that the percentage of toa characters has fallen slightly with each census that has been taken. Granted, it was a small drop, from 61% to 56%, but I'm choosing to look on the bright side here.

 

Truth to that. I think the characters from the last few contests actually showed an even greater drop than that. Then again, I'm sure boredom was probably the biggest factor (there's only so many times you can play the same character type, after all).

 

-Toa Levacius Zehvor :flagusa:


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#932 Offline RahkshiToa88

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Posted Sep 27 2014 - 01:49 PM

Po-Koro is looking a bit silent...


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#933 Online Ninth Krayzikk

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Posted Sep 27 2014 - 04:34 PM

 

(if your first instinct for an NPC species is making a character a Toa, you're a lazy and unimaginative writer, no exceptions, offense intended)

 

You must be fun at parties.

 

Generally, yes. Yes I am. Mostly on account of being neither lazy, nor unimaginative. But enough about me; is there something you wish to add to the topic?

 

And as for the real default, yes, that is unfortunate, both from the canon MU demographics and in terms of character diversity and species meaning something. However, there may be some hope on this front. Data from the annual-ish census of BZPRPG charaters shows that the percentage of toa characters has fallen slightly with each census that has been taken. Granted, it was a small drop, from 61% to 56%, but I'm choosing to look on the bright side here.

 

Truth to that. I think the characters from the last few contests actually showed an even greater drop than that. Then again, I'm sure boredom was probably the biggest factor (there's only so many times you can play the same character type, after all).

 

-Toa Levacius Zehvor :flagusa:

 

 

I'm afraid, Lev, that I have to disagree with your opinions on some fronts. I personally feel that many of these changes are neither negative nor positive, merely differences. In fact, I don't even think all of them are far fetched. Clothes have a canon presence, admittedly a small and intermittent one; the Turaga in MoL had robes, Vezon had a cloak, just to list the ones that occur to me easily.

 

'Love', I think, is something very natural. Reproduction is entirely up to personal preference, but love is an emotion; one that any species that can develop complex interpersonal relationships could develop. There is no reason it couldn't exist, except that Greg decided to enforce the "No Hugging, No Kissing" (to borrow TVTropes' lexicon) policy that Bionicle had always had implied, though not enforced. In fact, if we went strictly by the canon interpretation of behaviors and emotions, there are many things we wouldn't have. Toa would be almost all goody-two-shoes that never set a toe out of line, never killed their opponents, and stuck to the Toa Code religiously. Which, for the protagonists of a children's toyline, is fine, if a little unimaginative. But for an RPG, it's boring. 

 

And as for the laziness of species choice... Would the selection of a Matoran shopkeeper a majority of the time not be unimaginative in and of itself? Yes, by virtue of statistics, most should be. But how boring is it, if almost all the people you encountered were Matoran? While it might be more canonically accurate, it would be just as lazy as making most NPCs Toa. And, if we're following canon, police forces should be Toa, without any Matoran. Vortixx should all be crafty craftsmen, and Skakdi all Blood Knights. My point being, in general, that while some variety would be nice, it would require abandoning most of what canon is. Which, frankly, I do a lot of anyway. 

 

The humanization, as well, comes from a matter of practicality. With biomechanicle anatomy so vague, fair play during fights is nearly impossible without some kind of solid system. And since we all know human anatomy anyway, that's the system the BZPRPG uses, and almost every game I've helped to staff uses.

 

Also. Red Star? What's that? It just made the Inika into Toa, right?

 

It never did anything else.

Ever.

 

:)

 

 

 

Po-Koro is looking a bit silent...

 

Wrong topic. :P


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Red Skies, an FTL Prequel (Updated 7/13)


#934 Offline ghidora131

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Posted Sep 27 2014 - 06:34 PM

Well said.

Also, the red star is really mars.

 

 

:P


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#935 Offline namcurtsnoC

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Posted Sep 27 2014 - 06:45 PM

Note: my points are marked by the double dash.

Thoughts for the forum -

Over the years, there's been an increasing level of accepted differences from the "canon" story. Things like love, male and female Matoran of the same element, blood, and so forth are pretty much accepted as being applicable. From immediate memory -

- Reproduction is pretty much a given now for MU species, to the tears of biologists everywhere.

--not much comment here, but where do new Matoran come from? Greg never answered that aside from "Artakha could make them".

- Elemental affiliation does not determine gender.

--do you know how much controversy has been raised over that point? A lot of the people here view it as a bad thing, not simply because there's a 4:1 ratio (or something) of males to females, but because it restricts originality. I'm one of the people who hopes that Lego tosses that one out the window with the new series coming up. In regards to the RPG forum, it did bug me when I first joined, but I can see why people do it. I personally don't (as far as I can remember) but I don't have an issue with it.

- Love, as the first two might lead one to assume, is in.

--If you mean romantic love, then yeah? I guess? Still, there are other reasons for expressing love other than reproductive purposes, and love, romantic or otherwise, is just one many emotions. And MU inhabitants are capable of emotion.

- MU species are considerably fleshier, to the point of bleeding.

--Like said here and other places, that's more for fair play purposes than anything else. We don't really know how Matoran physiology works; we do have some concept art fron Mask of Light to go off of but it's still sort of vague. Easier to just assume that they're humans with metal bones who wear armor 24/7.

- Apparently clothes are becoming a thing now?

--Personalization. Clothes aren't just for covering/warmth.

- Skakdi and Vortixx are accepted as being rather common species.

--hey, if you want an all-matoran RPG, go ahead and make your own.

- Corpses are assumed; Red Star teleportation isn't really a thing.

--This doesn't really apply to RPGs that massively diverge from canon; with those that do follow canon, I guess it's just to make things simpler, as many thought that the whole Red Star thing came out of left field and wasn't thought up too well. Besides, the lack of it helps enforce death is final, so unless resurrection is a game mechanic (like the RPG Parugi made some time ago), then it's sorta unnecessary.

- Eating is done manually, not via weird energy absorption or whatever.

--Again, easier to understand. That whole thing wasn't explained thoroughly (where was it mentioned at all? Sincere question).

- Toa Code? Who needs that?

--antiheroes sure don't. The Toa Code wasn't very well defined outside of "Thou shalt not kill", and there are many reasons why somebody would choose to not follow it. It allows for a wider degree of characterization outside of "lawful good" or "neutral/chaotic good except for this one thing".

- One in every two people are Toa. The police? Toa. The shopkeeper? He's a Toa. Any other NPC you're too lazy to pull out a species list for? Also a Toa. Heck, even the Dark Hunters and Brotherhood are mostly made of Toa, just FYI.

--never really noticed that... Is that much of a problem?

- ...

So, that was a quick post thrown together between English work. There's probably a lot more that I'm not thinking of because I have poems in my brain, but that's no issue. I apologize for the snark bleeding into a few, as the last one in particular annoys me (if your first instinct for an NPC species is making a character a Toa, you're a lazy and unimaginative writer, no exceptions, offense intended), and the clothes one I just find more amusing than anything ("Look at me, the creature whose body is naturally plated in armor, look at my new suit!") Heck, at point, even the first one doesn't bother me anymore; I just bang my head out trying to figure it out biologically.

Anyways, are there any others anyone else can think of? Any anyone wants to debate? Preferably the last one, because I'd really like to see others support on that one not being a thing?

-Toa Levacius Zehvor :flagusa:


Also, what are you basing these issues on? The BZPRPG, contest RPGs, or both?

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Antidermis: 50% pit mutagen, 50% questionable Ga-Koro water. We now know the secrets of Makuta's servants.


#936 Offline Toa Levacius Zehvor

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Posted Sep 27 2014 - 07:11 PM

I'm afraid, Lev, that I have to disagree with your opinions on some fronts. I personally feel that many of these changes are neither negative nor positive, merely differences. In fact, I don't even think all of them are far fetched. Clothes have a canon presence, admittedly a small and intermittent one; the Turaga in MoL had robes, Vezon had a cloak, just to list the ones that occur to me easily.

 

'Love', I think, is something very natural. Reproduction is entirely up to personal preference, but love is an emotion; one that any species that can develop complex interpersonal relationships could develop. There is no reason it couldn't exist, except that Greg decided to enforce the "No Hugging, No Kissing" (to borrow TVTropes' lexicon) policy that Bionicle had always had implied, though not enforced. In fact, if we went strictly by the canon interpretation of behaviors and emotions, there are many things we wouldn't have. Toa would be almost all goody-two-shoes that never set a toe out of line, never killed their opponents, and stuck to the Toa Code religiously. Which, for the protagonists of a children's toyline, is fine, if a little unimaginative. But for an RPG, it's boring. 

 

And as for the laziness of species choice... Would the selection of a Matoran shopkeeper a majority of the time not be unimaginative in and of itself? Yes, by virtue of statistics, most should be. But how boring is it, if almost all the people you encountered were Matoran? While it might be more canonically accurate, it would be just as lazy as making most NPCs Toa. And, if we're following canon, police forces should be Toa, without any Matoran. Vortixx should all be crafty craftsmen, and Skakdi all Blood Knights. My point being, in general, that while some variety would be nice, it would require abandoning most of what canon is. Which, frankly, I do a lot of anyway. 

 

The humanization, as well, comes from a matter of practicality. With biomechanicle anatomy so vague, fair play during fights is nearly impossible without some kind of solid system. And since we all know human anatomy anyway, that's the system the BZPRPG uses, and almost every game I've helped to staff uses.

 

Also. Red Star? What's that? It just made the Inika into Toa, right?

 

It never did anything else.

Ever.

 

Actually, I'm completely in favor of love and other emotions, as a matter of strengthening the narrative. Remember, contrary to popular belief, I do actually find the canon to be flawed, and sometimes comment about things I like. :P Really, the only three issues I have are reproduction (as stated, because it doesn't make scientific sense, not because of some ridiculous morality issue or whatever), clothes (which are silly; explained below), and how many Toa are everywhere.

 

I don't disagree with Toa not following the code. In fact, few of my characters do. However, I do appreciate when people take the time to at least factor it in. It comes back to Time Trap, where Vakama basically tells Makuta "If Toa killed, we'd start with you." Toa are incredibly powerful, and if they used those abilities fully, the BoM and Dark Hunters wouldn't be credible threats. If your character is a Toa, NPCs shouldn't mug you in an alley - they should be terrified.

 

I should clarify about clothes - cloaks, robes, and the like make sense. Really, any form of headgear or over-clothes does. Stuff like pants, tunics, and the like are what I find funny. Outside of Glatorian/Agori/etc. Now, climate is of course a part of it - in a cold weather environment, I could see there being unusual forms of attire invented to cover up less heavily armored parts. On that note, I don't think it's really worth mentioning in a character profile - that's the type of thing you should expect.

 

To some extent? Yes, admittedly. That's the advantage of a post-MU system - Agori and Glatorian are both rather common, and basically triple your common species list. But that's where writing comes in - what you do with the character, personality wise, is the most important part. As to where Toa do belong? I think the issue comes with interpretation. My reading into matters is that the MU is a very poorly explored place, done in a very "points of light" styled set-up for the different islands, all with very poor contact - around the time of the 2004 story, countless islands had been ravaged by the Visorak, and yet nobody in Metru-Nui even knew what they were! Toa couldn't be police, because with things like Zyglak and powerful Rahi about, thieves and the like could be handled by the Vahki or whatever. After all, we are talking about a world where you can just be minding your own business, and then suddenly your fortress is swarmed by worms piloting mech suits.

 

Of course, though, different people see different things. I suppose assuming a more civilized world leads to other assumptions, but then again, I'm the guy whose head-canon is that the Northern Continent is still a war-zone between survivors of the League of Six Kingdoms.

 

Also, what are you basing these issues on? The BZPRPG, contest RPGs, or both?

 

Seriously, why is everything I say an "issue"? :S

 

For the most part, I'm discussing the forum as a whole, not just one RPG or group of RPGs. Once more, contrary to popular belief, I'm not simply looking for a fight. It's important, especially with how many new writers we should be expect (especially if Bionicle does make a comeback, which might bring more people in, within the foreseeable future).

 

I don't understand why people would have an issue about the genders. They were made by the Great Beings, who enjoyed creating. Why would they limit themselves so much? And, as said above, I don't understand why love was retconned out - kids, aren't quite as daft as some people think. I can't speak for anyone else, but Jaller/Hahli was my first "ship".

 

There's a difference between all-Matoran and few-Toa. There are, after all, dozens of species one can choose from.

 

If memory serves, the idea was that Matoran could plug themselves in at Metru-Nui like the Vahki could, and they just "absorbed" Vuata Maca on Mata-Nui. Head canon? That's just elitist thinking from the "high and mighty" folks in Metru-Nui, real Matoran barbeque. As to the original explanation, I believe it's in the official guides and such.

 

The problem is what it does to the narrative. If you've ever played Oblivion, you know about Imperial Guards, and how they're all ten levels higher than the player. As a low-level character, one wonders why they should be saving the world when that guard just one-hitted the troll that's been kiting you for the better part of an hour. The same rule applies here - your characters are made irrelevant to their own story by virtue of the fact the man they just bought a drink would be just as well, if not better, suited for the journey you're going on. And the villains? Not a threat.

 

When PCs are Toa, while I don't find it particularly imaginative, I also don't view it as that terrible. For NPCs, though? Unless the goal is to make them dangerous, there's not a point.

 

-Toa Levacius Zehvor :flagusa:


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#937 Offline I Am Ultron Six

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Posted Sep 27 2014 - 10:23 PM

Again, easier to understand. That whole thing wasn't explained thoroughly (where was it mentioned at all? Sincere question)

 

Not sure where its first mentioned (I suspect somewhere in the very first year or so) but at the very least the Metru Nui years gave us the Matoran Feeding Point which, if memory serves, was a pillar full of energy the Matoran just had to touch every so often to 'recharge'. Actually physically eating something was deemed uncouth and/or stupid and reserved for the likes of the Skakdi 

 

 

The humanization, as well, comes from a matter of practicality. With biomechanicle anatomy so vague, fair play during fights is nearly impossible without some kind of solid system. And since we all know human anatomy anyway, that's the system the BZPRPG uses, and almost every game I've helped to staff uses.

 

Yeah if we don't resort to human biology from time to time then all we know is that, with everyone from the MU being around 80% mechanics to 20% biology (I think thats what Greg's said in the past), they should be unstoppable juggernauts of apparently solid metal. You could deflect sword blows and the like by just standing still and letting them bounce off you, and even canon knows thats ridiculous given that people can be and have been stabbed (Zaktan versus Tahu springs to mind, I'm sure there are more examples). So its kind of semi-official that everyone in the MU is a bit squishier than they should technically be simply for the sake of practicality 


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I am Ultron Six, a cybernetic intelligence created by Doctor Henry Pym. My imperative is to bring peace and order to this world. I am about to fulfil that imperative; for the extinction of humanity…begins now.

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#938 Offline Silvan Haven

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Posted Sep 27 2014 - 10:45 PM

I would assume that the strength and weapons of the MU are a fair bit above what we can do in the real world. One of Lewa's protosteel katana got snapped over a knee after all.


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"I serve the weak. I serve the helpless. I am their sword and their shield. If you want to strike at them, you must go through me, and I am not so easily moved."


#939 Offline I Am Ultron Six

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Posted Sep 27 2014 - 11:48 PM

Er Silvan, breaking a sword made of Bionicle's answer to adamantium using nothing more than bare hands and brute strength seems to be a point in the "unstoppable metal juggernaut" category to me.

But yeah I suspect this is why most weaponry in the MU is outfitted with some kind of power, just in case a bit more firepower is needed to get through someone's armour


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I am Ultron Six, a cybernetic intelligence created by Doctor Henry Pym. My imperative is to bring peace and order to this world. I am about to fulfil that imperative; for the extinction of humanity…begins now.

the_ultron_imperative.jpg

Soon the earth will no longer be habitable for any biological organism: Man, woman, child, plant, animal, fungus or bacterium. All life will cease to exist. This is not a threat, there is nothing you can do to stop it. The process has already begun. I receive no pleasure in this, it is simply the only solution. There must be peace and order, the end of life on earth will ensure that. Goodbye.


#940 Offline Silvan Haven

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Posted Sep 27 2014 - 11:57 PM

The point was that the average strength of an MU being is high enough to allow for swords and the like to break through metal armor.

 

Its like the difficulty grade in a video game. As deference goes higher, attack rises to match it.


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"I serve the weak. I serve the helpless. I am their sword and their shield. If you want to strike at them, you must go through me, and I am not so easily moved."


#941 Offline Toa Levacius Zehvor

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Posted Sep 28 2014 - 12:58 AM

I didn't originally (heck, even like a year ago), but after seeing a lot of screwed up Elder Scrolls pseudo-lore over the last year, I actually like thinking of Matoran and the like being fully made of "living metal" or various types. Or rather -

 

The brains would be the closest to real flesh, but far less susceptible to decay, which explains being able to have a 100,000 year memory without problem. Next would be the majority of other organs, save skin. Muscles would need to be incredibly tough, especially for Toa, which allows the Masks of Strength/Speed to not cause damage. The skin would be thick, and in most places, would also be coated in external armoring - identical to metal in most ways, but capable of repair. Bones would be the same.

 

Something like this also solves the power issue of Iron and Magnetism wielders, by preventing them from simply going "lulz metal" and crushing a character. Further, it's the closest to explaining how reproduction would work. Of course, it still leaves some unpleasant questions with regards to the placement and function of genitalia.

 

Of course, it doesn't need to be mammal, or universal. Heck, maybe it works differently for different elements, and Ga-Matoran annually swim upstream like salmon or something. But it's late, I'm tired, and from the first paragraph on I've been imagining "Bionicle by Michael Kirkbride" so good night before the aneurysms start.

 

-Toa Levacius Zehvor :flagusa:


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#942 Offline ghidora131

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Posted Sep 28 2014 - 01:13 PM

Sweet dreams.

 

Before we go into the genetics of Matoran in a place we probably shouldn't do it (do it in the PMs if you want, much more private in there) I think that the idea of Matoran having flesh and blood is not only acceptable, but reasonable.

 

For instance, it was shown several times in the Bionicle books (especially the Mahri series) that they do have flesh, even the creatures do. Any metal they have growing on their outside much be insanely strong, as no one with Magneic powers has come along in the storyline and simply crushed a person into nothingness. Their brains would most likely be like a person's, but, as you stated, they would be much less susceptible to decay. They would also be toughened on the outside, but not made of metal to avoid instant lobotomies. The muscles would be incredibly strong, and superbly thick on the outside, preferably replacing skin, but still be flesh on the inside.

 

Their bones, on the other hand, really bug me. I don't know what to say they are, but they're not metal. Possibly an alternative bone-like material...?

 

Genetics, on the other hand, I'll try to say as cleanly as possible. They could have moving armour plates when need be? It's my best guess.

 

Finally, all Matoran can be any gender, any type, not stuck with only Ga-Matoran being girls. You know what that was for? Easier marketing. Make all blue characters female, and you can handle it easier. Hero Factory didn't fix the problem. I think it's safe to say that with marketing being the only purpose for that, there's no need for it to continue.

 

Also, watching Ga-Matoran swim upstream would be pretty funny. Would they be caught and eaten for dinner? :P


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#943 Offline BULiK

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Posted Sep 28 2014 - 01:48 PM

Sweet dreams.

 

Before we go into the genetics of Matoran in a place we probably shouldn't do it (do it in the PMs if you want, much more private in there) I think that the idea of Matoran having flesh and blood is not only acceptable, but reasonable.

 

For instance, it was shown several times in the Bionicle books (especially the Mahri series) that they do have flesh, even the creatures do. Any metal they have growing on their outside much be insanely strong, as no one with Magneic powers has come along in the storyline and simply crushed a person into nothingness. Their brains would most likely be like a person's, but, as you stated, they would be much less susceptible to decay. They would also be toughened on the outside, but not made of metal to avoid instant lobotomies. The muscles would be incredibly strong, and superbly thick on the outside, preferably replacing skin, but still be flesh on the inside.

 

Their bones, on the other hand, really bug me. I don't know what to say they are, but they're not metal. Possibly an alternative bone-like material...?

 

Genetics, on the other hand, I'll try to say as cleanly as possible. They could have moving armour plates when need be? It's my best guess.

 

Finally, all Matoran can be any gender, any type, not stuck with only Ga-Matoran being girls. You know what that was for? Easier marketing. Make all blue characters female, and you can handle it easier. Hero Factory didn't fix the problem. I think it's safe to say that with marketing being the only purpose for that, there's no need for it to continue.

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that post sums up my opinion tbh


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#944 Offline I Am Ultron Six

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Posted Sep 28 2014 - 03:07 PM

as no one with Magneic powers has come along in the storyline and simply crushed a person into nothingness

 

While I don't think it was entirely into nothingness, Icarax did do pretty much this to Botar. Just crushed him up like a can


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I am Ultron Six, a cybernetic intelligence created by Doctor Henry Pym. My imperative is to bring peace and order to this world. I am about to fulfil that imperative; for the extinction of humanity…begins now.

the_ultron_imperative.jpg

Soon the earth will no longer be habitable for any biological organism: Man, woman, child, plant, animal, fungus or bacterium. All life will cease to exist. This is not a threat, there is nothing you can do to stop it. The process has already begun. I receive no pleasure in this, it is simply the only solution. There must be peace and order, the end of life on earth will ensure that. Goodbye.


#945 Offline Toa Levacius Zehvor

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Posted Sep 28 2014 - 03:33 PM

Finally, all Matoran can be any gender, any type, not stuck with only Ga-Matoran being girls. You know what that was for? Easier marketing. Make all blue characters female, and you can handle it easier. Hero Factory didn't fix the problem. I think it's safe to say that with marketing being the only purpose for that, there's no need for it to continue.

 

You're right about it being marketing, but the reason's actually dumber than that - companies feel that boys won't buy female characters, and Bionicle was meant to be targeted at boys age 7-16 (depending on the year; I'm using a Mistika canister for reference). That's why virtually the entire Bara-Magna cast was male, despite it being the perfect opportunity to do the opposite.

 

Having talked to people who also played with Bionicles as kids, but who never followed the story, I can say fairly accurately that the average consumer doesn't know or care one way or another. The Bohrok are "those big ones that shot little ones out of their head", the Toa were "the red one", "the blue one", and so on.

 

Addendum: Bones are likely something similar to the external armor, though perhaps stronger and less flexible. Perhaps something like the artificial bones we use, only made of protodermis? Really, that's the thing which sucks - we don't know much about how protodermis works. Still, it does translate to "before skin" or something like that, which implies it being somewhat organic.

 

While I don't think it was entirely into nothingness, Icarax did do pretty much this to Botar. Just crushed him up like a can

 

Knew I was forgetting something...

 

It's possible that, as an Order member, Botar reinforced himself with extra armor of some form. After all, with his teleportation powers, its unlikely he ever figured he'd go up against a magnetism user for long enough to make it important, and in most situations it would just be beneficial.

 

-Toa Levacius Zehvor :flagusa:


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#946 Offline ghidora131

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Posted Sep 28 2014 - 09:07 PM

LEGO wanted Botar dead. Easiest way that made sense was magnetically crush him.

 

Yeah, Botar could have easily gotten some exterior metal armour, and maybe just believe no being with magnetic powers could really do that much.

 

Also, quick question: Did Botar's species ever get a name?


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#947 Offline namcurtsnoC

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Posted Sep 28 2014 - 09:18 PM

There was also Maxilos!Teridax throwing Karzahni, Gahlok-Kal making mahi stick to Pohatu, Gahlok-Kal rooting Lewa to the ground, etc. I think that shows MU beings have enough metal in them for Fa-Toa and other users to at least incapicate them.
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Antidermis: 50% pit mutagen, 50% questionable Ga-Koro water. We now know the secrets of Makuta's servants.


#948 Offline The Lorax

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Posted Sep 28 2014 - 10:25 PM

Also, quick question: Did Botar's species ever get a name?

 

Canonically? No.

 

But somebody has probably made up a name for themselves at some point and used it for their own character of that species.


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#949 Offline Onarax

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Posted Sep 30 2014 - 09:58 AM

I now declare Botar's species to be called Botars.


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#950 Offline Silo

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Posted Sep 30 2014 - 11:35 AM

YES.

On a related note, were any of the non-skakdi-matora-vortixx-zyglak-krana species ever named?


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#951 Offline The Lorax

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Posted Sep 30 2014 - 12:54 PM

You got most of them, but here's the full list.

 

http://biosector01.c...Sapient_Species


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#952 Offline ghidora131

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Posted Sep 30 2014 - 08:00 PM

I think we should call the Botar species "Bravak".


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