The Official RPG Planning Topic

[Voltex]

TRUKK NOT MUNKY

 

MU fellas transforming into Rahi doesn't even need a Transformers cross.

 

I was just about to say the same thing.

 

I mean, "Transformers X Bionicle" is a neat idea, but you can also just invent some plot device that allows Toa to turn themselves into Rahi or something. Then you just have to figure out how this would factor into the plot, what exactly the plot is, and move forward from there.

[Khromatose]

There are some vehicles...just not enough in the MU.

And not all Transformers turn into vehicles, don't forget some turn into fortress, tools, and some everyday items.

 

I mean...if guns and swords count as everyday items.

Edited January 25, 2015 by ArcticFreeze17

[Wyrd Bid Ful Araed]

While I feel like Transformers works better when they turn into vehicles instead of beasts, having them transform into Rahi would probably be easier to work into Bionicle, I imagine.

 

Hmm, people turning into animals sounds more like Animorphs to me, just with more metal. I suppose it would be a case of Matoran being given the powers to transform into Rahi in order to better fight a secret invasion of new, specialised kraata which literally get inside your head and now I'm kind of wanting this to be a thing...

Edited January 25, 2015 by I Am Ultron Six

[Khromatose]

Okay...I like that idea.

[The UltimoScorp]

I could see that work.

[Voltex]

 

While I feel like Transformers works better when they turn into vehicles instead of beasts, having them transform into Rahi would probably be easier to work into Bionicle, I imagine.

 

Hmm, people turning into animals sounds more like Animorphs to me, just with more metal. I suppose it would be a case of Matoran being given the powers to transform into Rahi in order to better fight a secret invasion of new, specialised kraata which literally get inside your head and now I'm kind of wanting this to be a thing...

 

 

So am I now ;__;

[Silvan Haven]

 

I'll have to disagree. Not all players like crossovers, and creating them alienates people who just want to play Bionicle RPGs,

 

That is kinda part of the reason we have all these different side RPGs. Aside from allowing more than one person to run their own RPG, it also allows people who don't like one idea go and do something else.

 

 

Plus, crossovers more often than not lead to grabbing at and fusing the origins, rather than creating new source material.

 

When you do a good job it tends to come out noticeably different from either of the starter pieces. A proper fusion of settings is more than just mashing a pair of them together.

 

Something for anybody trying to make a crossover to remember.

 

 

We've seen wars in Bionicle. What are you doing that's new?

 

Welp, might as well never have another RPG with a war in it.

 

 

There's a difference between "little different" and "I have to go back eleven pages to find something that isn't either a crossover or a reimagning of a project from another forum as an RPG".

 

That much talk about it means that there is a fair amount of interest in a crossover RPG, even if it is a cautious interest.

 

 

The inherent problem with crossovers is something Lev touched on; they don't do anything new. The plots don't benefit from it,

 

I'm not sure how much crossovers you have read but the fact that for a large number of them, those plots would have never happened without the universes coming together. I'm pretty sure that falls under "new."

 

 

because for many of these ideas I would have serious concerns about their ability to survive.

 

This is a major part of the reason we have the planning topic. The community can take a look at any new ideas coming along and see if they like it. If not, the idea dies here, like what has happened to several suggestions over the past couple of pages.

 

I'm not saying that anything that gets to the Judges is guaranteed to live for a while, but it is going to have some level of support behind it.

[Krayzikk]

I think, SIlvan, you are missing a major portion of the point I am getting at. Firstly, interest in "a crossover RPG" is like expressing interest in "a movie". It doesn't mean anything, because a crossover RPG doesn't even have a defined genre let alone staples of that genre. One can express interest in a specific crossover, but anything beyond that is meaningless. Secondly my initial statement was not "get these crossovers out of the RPG forum". it was that crossover games are being discussed to the exclusion of any original game.

 

Which is an inherently bad thing. 

 

Furthermore, this "support" is very far from as existent as you say. Through easily half a dozen pages I have not seen any one crossover idea get more supporting players than I can count on one hand. That, in and of itself, is a statistic contradiction to your statement of any game that reaches the judging having support to sustain it.

[Some Random Phrase]

 

While I feel like Transformers works better when they turn into vehicles instead of beasts, having them transform into Rahi would probably be easier to work into Bionicle, I imagine.

 

Hmm, people turning into animals sounds more like Animorphs to me, just with more metal. I suppose it would be a case of Matoran being given the powers to transform into Rahi in order to better fight a secret invasion of new, specialised kraata which literally get inside your head and now I'm kind of wanting this to be a thing...

 

Actually, there were several Transformers series with them turning into animals.

[Khromatose]

Only 2. Beast Wars and Beast Machines.

Other animal characters like the Predacons and Sharkticons were minor characters of other series.

[Some Random Phrase]

Yeah, I didn't remember how many.

[Timageness]

So did everyone forget about that Roborider/Throwbot/Bionicle Tron-esque crossover thing? I personally think that would be pretty cool.

Yup. That's what happens when an idea gets buried under 30+ posts. 

On a more serious note, it was only mentioned as a suggestion; there weren't actually any plans to make it a thing, even though it would've probably been relatively easier to pull off, since it doesn't involve any non-constraction-based universes. Coupled in with the fact that it would most likely be another arena-based RPG and that it was brought up while Bionifight is currently on the eve of approval, any attempt to develop it at this time probably wouldn't be that great of an idea.

[Bloody Nine]

The Gate was silly and didn't rely on crossovers anyways

 

Just le wow factor of the witch king or whatever

[Toa of Dancing]

I think, SIlvan, you are missing a major portion of the point I am getting at. Firstly, interest in "a crossover RPG" is like expressing interest in "a movie". It doesn't mean anything, because a crossover RPG doesn't even have a defined genre let alone staples of that genre. One can express interest in a specific crossover, but anything beyond that is meaningless. Secondly my initial statement was not "get these crossovers out of the RPG forum". it was that crossover games are being discussed to the exclusion of any original game.

 

Which is an inherently bad thing. 

 

Furthermore, this "support" is very far from as existent as you say. Through easily half a dozen pages I have not seen any one crossover idea get more supporting players than I can count on one hand. That, in and of itself, is a statistic contradiction to your statement of any game that reaches the judging having support to sustain it.

If an original idea was brought up, it would be discussed just as much as these ideas. To me, your statement seems biased to assuming that people have tried to put ideas out within these last dozen pages, which they haven't (other than some interesting sounding crossovers or crossover-inspired). Discussion begets creativity. TPtI/Ultron did bring up an interesting idea because of this discussion, and I think it sounds cool.

[Krayzikk]

Looking it over again, it did come off that way. Guess my wording wasn't great.

 

What I meant was that no original ideas had been proposed in a dozen pages, compared to multiple crossovers, which did not bode well. I didn't mean that ideas weren't discussed so much as the crossover ideas being proposed were many while no original ones had been proposed.

[Toa of Dancing]

Sure, but that's because nobody has had an idea. We're still having discussion and putting the topic to use. Glad to see you didn't mean what it seemed.

 

All that said, I am interested in seeing the next fully-realized (or at least partially) idea.

[Bloody Nine]

Set in The Kingdom, after the arrival of Takanuva and Matoro's sacrifice, the Ruling Council, stricken with fear over the nearly averted disaster, set about to banishing all shadows, large or small, turning the island of Mata Nui into a city of perpetual light. The arm of the Council is the Dark Hunters, now named because they hunt and purge out the darkness act as their Inquisition. However, unknown to the denizens of Mata Nui at large, a small number of them have already become possessed by the spirits of Makuta. Weakened, alone, without access to antidermis or kraata... but alive.

 

They do... whatever they want. Seeking a way to topple the Kingdom, to be reborn in all their glory, more of their own brethren, or even continuing as they originally have, they work quietly, so far unnoticed by the long arm of the Dark Hunters.

 

The interaction between the Makuta and their hosts vary; some may speak in whispers, subtly influencing their movements, some may act as a loud voice, sharing equal mindspace, and others may just mindcrush their host, assuming full control.

[IcarusBen]

That's... actually really cool. For added... drama! I would make it so that you can't choose whether you're a Makuta-possessed hunter or not. That way, characters won't know what to expect.

[Bloody Nine]

Dunno, that'd be forcing things onto people, not to mention that I'd have no feasible way of doing that aside from rolling some dice or something.

 

Anyways, to clarify some things, basically, you're roleplaying two guys in a single body, like... Chirox is infesting a garbageman Matoran, and ends up being incredibly frustrated at being a garbageman, but the Matoran suddenly gets a strange compulsion to collect certain things of great scientific importance.

 

Meanwhile Gorast might take control of a member of the Council, but being a brutish Gorast, she drives the poor guy insane and he ends up being committed.

[Silvan Haven]

Just wondering, how can the Makuta not have any antidermis. They are made out of the stuff, its what lets them posses other bodies.

[Nato G]

Would we have to use canon Makuta for this, or would we be allowed to make up our own?

[Bloody Nine]

 

Would we have to use canon Makuta for this, or would we be allowed to make up our own?

Can do both, I just named Gorast and Chirox because it makes an easier frame of reference than to make up two random names

 

 

Just wondering, how can the Makuta not have any antidermis. They are made out of the stuff, its what lets them posses other bodies.

 Because if you bite it in your host body, then that's it. You aren't going to be able to body surf to another so easily. You're weakened, you can't create Rahkshi or Zamor Spheres

[Silvan Haven]

That does not answer how we have a bunch of Makuta running around without any of well...themselves.

[Wyrd Bid Ful Araed]

I think the point is they don't have any more of themselves. They can't absorb more antidermis to get stronger, so they can't make kraata helpers and have to rely on hosts. 

Although saying that, I think usual rules regarding Makuta possession is that they can only take over bodies without a spirit (eg a robot like Maxilos or an Iden user who's gone walkabout). I'm assuming we're ignoring that for the sake of having a plot?

[Chro]

Presumably the Makuta mechanics would be stightly altered for the sake of having an interesting RP

[Some Random Phrase]

That sounds really cool. I assume makuta would have little-to-no access to their powers? Otherwise there will be some problems. Unless they avoid it for fear of blowing cover.

[Bloody Nine]

Yeah, hence weakened. The exact level and effects are undetermined, given that I thought of this in about half an hour. A few artistic liberties have been taken, but I'm hoping they're not immersion breaking

 

Either way, it's just an idea, and not likely to develop further for now given that the limit here has been reached?

Edited January 27, 2015 by Bloody Nine

[Silvan Haven]

 

I think usual rules regarding Makuta possession is that they can only take over bodies without a spirit (eg a robot like Maxilos or an Iden user who's gone walkabout).

 

It is supposed to be the rule. We saw during the Voya Nui that a weak enough mind could also be taken over. I assume that it would mostly be the same case here.

 

 

Either way, it's just an idea, and not likely to develop further for now given that the limit here has been reached?

 

Nothing wrong with kicking around an idea or two while we wait for spots to open up.

[Nato G]

Perhaps the weakened Makuta have access to only one or two of their Kraata powers, instead of all 42?

Edited January 27, 2015 by Roman Torchwick

[Khromatose]

Don't forget Makuta can only use powers like elasticity if the host has the power to do so.

[Some Random Phrase]

Technically, Makuta inhabiting a host have a lot of their super-OP powers(Dodge, LI, etc) inaccessible.

[The UltimoScorp]

And yet, we never see them in action.

[Toa Levacius Zehvor]

Perhaps the weakened Makuta have access to only one or two of their Kraata powers, instead of all 42?

 

Or perhaps a more interesting scenario: The Makuta inhabiting the host can access none of their Kraata powers, save for mental ones such as Mind Reading; all of the other powers are held by their host, who is simply unaware of their presence, and has no way of using. The powers go off randomly; dodging a thrown knife out of the blue, instinctively creating a magnetic burst, that sort of thing. As they adapt to their powers, the Makuta within them grows more powerful, and as a result begins to have a greater influence over the host. And, of course, the struggle to retain mental control forces them to limit their powers; basically, a means to prevent godmoding.

 

I'd suggest having players be granted permission to hone their abilities based upon proper roleplaying; if they do well enough, they maintain balance against the Makuta within, along with keeping everything timely, they manage to keep control of the form. However, if a character doesn't display proper roleplaying (acting out of character to their profile, constantly metagaming, breaking rules, etc.) then they will start to lose control; at the same time, if they overuse their powers, control is lost. Once control is lost, the character becomes an NPC, under full control of the Makuta (with full powers) and, as a result, the GM.

 

In the case of overusing powers, though doing so in-character and in a way which was good for the story, the GM could reserve the right to allow the player to continue controlling the new Makuta character; otherwise, it could serve to either punish offending players (by granting their character an untimely "death") or simply as a conclusion to their story.

 

Interesting possibilities, in any case.

 

Addendum: As possessed characters grow more powerful, they begin to develop shadow abilities, and gain the eventual power to create shadow hands and the like. Through the use of their shadow hand, they could absorb other Makuta-possessed characters, and bolster their own powers. Think Highlander with Makuta.

 

-Toa Levacisu Zehvor

[Timageness]

There can be only one!

Back on topic, is there a working title for this yet?

[Bloody Nine]

Not yet, I don't see a reason to make something concrete given that I'm expecting 3-5 months before the next rpg closes down. It was just spitballing an idea in response to the complaint that there weren't any.

 

Eclipse?

 

Zehvor has good ideas, but all the same it feels slower-paced / restrictive, so I may have to butcher them instead.

[Silvan Haven]

Its a pretty good idea, and an interesting take on the Demon giving the Host Powers type trope.

 

Just one problem.

 

acting out of character to their profile,

 

Not everybody plays like you do. Nine tenths of the time I hardly know what I am going to do with a character's personality when I try to make them. Everybody has their own RP style, don't punish them just because it is not yours.

[Nato G]

Lots of character's personalities tend to change based on their experiences in-game. 

[Toa Levacius Zehvor]

Not everybody plays like you do. Nine tenths of the time I hardly know what I am going to do with a character's personality when I try to make them. Everybody has their own RP style, don't punish them just because it is not yours.

 

I don't mean exactly word-for-word; I'm referring to blatant exaggerations. If your character is established as being "loyal" in their profile block, as their pretty much defining personality trait, suddenly backstabbing their allies and running away is a blatant violation of the meta. In other RPGs, this would just happen as some random moment, and would create a break in the narrative. However, the idea I propose offers a solution to it; instead of acting out of character, they were simply acting in-character for the Makuta possessing them, representing loss of control.

 

And daily reminder that "role-playing" indicates you have a role to play, and you're meant to operate within that role. The challenge in an RPG comes just as much from playing the part as fighting other players. It should be more, really.

 

Lots of character's personalities tend to change based on their experiences in-game. 

 

That's the reason for the pacing. In essence, the idea is that every character would have their personality change, because it's being forced onto them. The challenge is to see how much of it remains.

 

Zehvor has good ideas, but all the same it feels slower-paced / restrictive, so I may have to butcher them instead.

 

You can always adjust the pace based on how quickly the RPG is going. If the story's good enough, you won't even need to. And restrictive? No more so than any other RPG; it just gives a more organic method to the restrictions, so while more apparent, they don't feel as forced.

 

I'd also say an RPG where you're meant to stick closer to your role would be a good exercise for newer writers; particularly those who aren't as comfortable with keeping a cohesive character. I know for certain one of the earliest difficulties I had was learning to write characters with definitive "voices", rather than just the same character with different appearances, powers, and exaggerated traits. Heck, I still consider it one of the toughest things to do.

 

-Toa Levacius Zehvor

[Silvan Haven]

The character section of the profile is to help other players interact with your PC. Its not there to tell the player how to use their own creation.

[IcarusBen]

If I put down as Halyx's character trait "loves animals" and then have him kick a puppy, I'm playing way, way, wayyyy out of character. Character development is fine, but good development is gradual. An animal lover suddenly kicking a puppy? Bad development, unless said animal lover is possessed by something that doesn't like animals.