Red Star and Takanuva(s)

[Yagami Kumi]

Now, we all know the Red Star has the ability to "resurrect" beings, right, in a very loose sense of the word.

 

Taken from BS01, "In addition, beings who died inside the Matoran Universe were transported to the Red Star where they would be placed in a new body and sent back, in order to conserve the finite resources that the Great Spirit Robot possessed."

 

 

As we all know, Makuta Tridax(I think) had assembled a large collection/army/playthings/display of alternate Takanuvas, some dead, all corrupted. Is it possible that the dead ones could actually end up in the Red Star? They may be from alternate universes, however, they are still in the Matoran Universe itself.

 

Thoughts?

 

-矢神久美

 

[Toa Smoke Monster]

If they had died in the MU, then I don't see why they wouldn't end up in the RS and trapped there with eveyone else in it.

[JAG18]

I believe, that Greg confirmed that beings from alternate universes were not resurrected by the Red Star in the Main Universe. Hence, why (alternate) Tuyet's corpse was still in The Pit to be found by Matoro and Makuta.

 

Edit: here's a related quote from Greg I found.

 

 

Q) When all of the Shadow Takanuvas were destroyed, did they get revived on the Red Star?

A) It's actually a good question, since the ST's were not originally intended to be a part of the universe, would the red star recognize them as such?

Edited April 15, 2014 by JAG18

[TBK]

One thing that doesn't make sense to me is that the Red Star was probably the same Red Star found in the universe of another alternate being, considering that differences between alternate Red Stars would be extremely unlikely... this would mean that they were programmed to resurrect the same beings. Considering this, the Red Star still resurrected MU beings after they were changed in some form, so if an alternate Takanuva showed up and died, wouldn't the Red Star simply recognize him as a "changed" Takanuva? Because technically, they are the same essence -- one just made more bad choices than the other.

[TERIDAX941]

That adds for another interesting idea... while we're talking about character doubles, we already know that the original Hydraxon was resurrected, what would happen if the Dekar/Hydraxon died? would he be restored to his matoran form, or would he still be Hydraxon? would he go to the Red Star at all, since Hydraxon has already been "restored".

[fishers64]

I think there was a question of why the Alt. Tuyet wasn't revived, and that's because this universe's RS didn't recognize her. So once the alt. Shadow Takanuvas die, they are very much dead.

[bonesiii]

I think there was a question of why the Alt. Tuyet wasn't revived, and that's because this universe's RS didn't recognize her. So once the alt. Shadow Takanuvas die, they are very much dead.

Here it is (found with Find search in Official Red Star Guide):

 

Q) Since the red star cannot teleport beings across dimensions, is that a reason why the remains of alternate Tuyet didn't desapeare ?

A) Yes. Someone who does not belong in the MU would not be recognized by the system.

 

 

 

One thing that doesn't make sense to me is that the Red Star was probably the same Red Star found in the universe of another alternate being, considering that differences between alternate Red Stars would be extremely unlikely... this would mean that they were programmed to resurrect the same beings. Considering this, the Red Star still resurrected MU beings after they were changed in some form, so if an alternate Takanuva showed up and died, wouldn't the Red Star simply recognize him as a "changed" Takanuva? Because technically, they are the same essence -- one just made more bad choices than the other.

We don't know that beings from a different universe are the same essence. It was theorized before Greg confirmed alternates aren't revived that something about them is out of sync with the main universe, a principle that is commonplace in physics and sci-fi. Greg's answer also suggests there may be records of who does and does not belong.

 

what would happen if the Dekar/Hydraxon died? [...] would he go to the Red Star at all

This is a question for Greg, that to my knowledge he hasn't been asked yet. (But it's my memory so don't be too sure. ) My guess is yes because he is Dekar, a Matoran who does belong. (But we're still unsure of just where people can and can't be revived if they die outside the MU; in 2007 he was above it, not in it -- depending on the definition of the MU.)

 

 

would he be restored to his matoran form, or would he still be Hydraxon?

Assuming he would be revived at all, it's apparently the latter; see part I've bolded of following two quotes:

 

Q) Also, if Karzahni died inside MU and his mask was broken, would he be given a new Olisi in red star ?

A) Yes

 

Q) Despite the fact that there was originaly only one Olisi in entire MU ?

A) You have to restore the person to the form they had when they died. That includes the mask.

That's basically why the body needs to be teleported up. On the other hand, Greg did earlier say that the MU should have records of Matoran's original forms from when they were first made, which could be sent to the RS:

 

Since these beings were created within the Great Spirit, yes, there would be a record of their creation which is shared with the RS

But when he said this it looked like he had misunderstood the question being asked, and it isn't clear that this record means it could actually re-create his original body. I would go with the "form they had when they died" answer, but he could always be asked to be sure on the LEGO.com topic. The record he mentions here might be simply about their existence as a unit that is tracked, so this might be part of the answer to why Altuyet wasn't revived as there was no such record for her; she wasn't being tracked. But that's somewhat theoretical, so take with salt...

[Pomegranate]

One thing that doesn't make sense to me is that the Red Star was probably the same Red Star found in the universe of another alternate being, considering that differences between alternate Red Stars would be extremely unlikely... this would mean that they were programmed to resurrect the same beings. Considering this, the Red Star still resurrected MU beings after they were changed in some form, so if an alternate Takanuva showed up and died, wouldn't the Red Star simply recognize him as a "changed" Takanuva? Because technically, they are the same essence -- one just made more bad choices than the other.

 

 

We don't know that beings from a different universe are the same essence. It was theorized before Greg confirmed alternates aren't revived that something about them is out of sync with the main universe, a principle that is commonplace in physics and sci-fi. Greg's answer also suggests there may be records of who does and does not belong.

 

I would think that every being would have a different "signature" in every alternate universe, be it spiritual or molecular or sub-atomic or something. The MU systems might have some sort of way to record the changes that each being goes through and save that as a sort of history, and if an alternate version is introduced the Red Star would be able to scan them and tell that they're different somehow and find inconsistencies. The Red Star might also be operated by living beings or have advanced enough automation to be able to do a background check on everything that dies to be able to know that, "hey, this corpse waltzed in here through a portal a few months ago" or something like that.

[fishers64]

I would think that every being would have a different "signature" in every alternate universe, be it spiritual or molecular or sub-atomic or something. The MU systems might have some sort of way to record the changes that each being goes through and save that as a sort of history, and if an alternate version is introduced the Red Star would be able to scan them and tell that they're different somehow and find inconsistencies. The Red Star might also be operated by living beings or have advanced enough automation to be able to do a background check on everything that dies to be able to know that, "hey, this corpse waltzed in here through a portal a few months ago" or something like that.

 

I think it's more like a key. Every MU being has, when made, a "key" that connects to the RS that is activated when they die, for that universe's RS. The alternate universe beings would send off the signal if dead, but the other universe's RS wouldn't recognize it.

[Pomegranate]

The Key analogy works really well, I like it ^^ It's very simple. I'm gonna go with that, I think.

[Yagami Kumi]

Wait, if Dekar will be revived as Hydraxon should he die- and the original Hydraxon is on the Red Star.... we've got a pair of twins right there.

[TERIDAX941]

Wait, if Dekar will be revived as Hydraxon should he die- and the original Hydraxon is on the Red Star.... we've got a pair of twins right there.

Exactly... and that could lead to a bunch of problems... course that's two Hydraxons for Velika to worry about Oooo! Plot twist! Maybe Velika didn't learn about what the Ignika did to Dekar, and he supposedly "kills" one Hydraxon, but then the other shows up, and Velika is all "Whaaaaaaat????" which gives Hydraxon the advantage of surprise, and could possibly do something to help. It's an idea anyways, and it'd be cool to see if that could happen.

[Yagami Kumi]

Hrm, what if one were to at any point of time, take a device such as a spear of fusion, then fuse an alternate Takanuva with a Core Universe being, then kill said fusion. Would that end up in the Red Star, and as one being, or separate....?

[The Doctor U]

Let's face it. While creating this great Red Star plot twist, Greg Farshtey created big mess of plot holes. But that is just our good old Gregory. We should all respect his great writing and story telling. And he is practically prophet.

[fishers64]

Exactly... and that could lead to a bunch of problems... course that's two Hydraxons for Velika to worry about Oooo! Plot twist! Maybe Velika didn't learn about what the Ignika did to Dekar, and he supposedly "kills" one Hydraxon, but then the other shows up, and Velika is all "Whaaaaaaat????" which gives Hydraxon the advantage of surprise, and could possibly do something to help. It's an idea anyways, and it'd be cool to see if that could happen.

 

It's not really a plot twist if we saw it coming. Still, would be cool to see.

 

Hrm, what if one were to at any point of time, take a device such as a spear of fusion, then fuse an alternate Takanuva with a Core Universe being, then kill said fusion. Would that end up in the Red Star, and as one being, or separate....?

I think it would be revived, because the fusion would likely count as a transformation for the Core being.

[Pomegranate]

 

Hrm, what if one were to at any point of time, take a device such as a spear of fusion, then fuse an alternate Takanuva with a Core Universe being, then kill said fusion. Would that end up in the Red Star, and as one being, or separate....?

I think it would be revived, because the fusion would likely count as a transformation for the Core being.

 

Yeah, I think it was established that it would just go an get revived as the new being- whatever goes in comes back the same way.

[ALVIS]

Wait, but don't fusions normally diffuse when they die, ie. Takutanuva? That was my understanding, that if, say, Wairuha was killed, it would separate as it died into Gali, Lewa, and Kopaka.

[fishers64]

Wait, but don't fusions normally diffuse when they die, ie. Takutanuva? That was my understanding, that if, say, Wairuha was killed, it would separate as it died into Gali, Lewa, and Kopaka.

Takutanuva needed energy to stay together because light and darkness are fundamentally opposing forces, as I understand. Wairuha is a Kaita that requires concentration to maintain. But if I take the Spear of Fusion and fuse a Toa of Fire and a Toa of Earth together to make Prototype, the fusion stays together without any internal energy source, and so would likely die and be revived as a whole.

[ChaoticTempleKnight]

That is a hard one to call. Personally, I do not think they would go to the Red star because they are from different universes. I think they would be lost in the Multi-verse void because they are not in there origin universes (Think Wreck-it-ralph and what happens to game characters when they are outside of their game).