Jump to content

Is Teridax one of the greatest and best fictional villains ever?


Recommended Posts

Makuta, Teridax, etc... is not one of the greatest fictional villains ever. Granted, Shakespeare's Iago is a fictional antagonist and is written worlds better than Teridax, but even if you look at villains within the same sort of age frame for the stories involved... no, Teridax really isn't. At most, this Makuta is on par with the usual Saturday cartoon villains chock full of cliches, trite characteristics overdone for the sake of creating something that appears villainous and hard to conquer, while mucking it all up with "he's a power hungry, over jealous janitor of the universe." There's a lot of better villains out there, villains who aren't (quite as) cliche or over the top or poorly written (Teridax's thing were all of his plans, he planned for everything including the un-plannable -- the writers wrote him that way, but it made him weak as a character. He had no development whatsoever, and overcame each loss with "haha, I totally saw this coming, loser.")

 

He's fine as a Lego villain for a kid's line, I thought the character was fun as a villain when I was younger and the Lego line doesn't hold itself up as... well, new, or thought-provoking literature with social commentary (on any level) or anything like that in it (okay, I guess they have friendship going for them? But I've seen a lot of other series handle that theme a lot better, with more memorable characters and villains, either way).

 

There's a ton of room for improvement, and there are villains written better than him out there.

 

Also, super-powerful villain =/= well written villain. (Usually the opposite).

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

1. The Joker

 

 

Joker's a tricky thing, because as someone only vaguely aware of him until the recent movie reboots, he's always struck me as perhaps the worst villain of all time due to sheer cheesiness

Yep, sounds like something that someone that is only vaguely aware of Joker until The Dark Knight would say. ;)

So what would someone who knows more about the Joker say?

 

The Joker to me was one of those villains that needs to be carefully handled. Handled poorly, he (like Bonesii said) is super cheesy and impossible to take seriously. Handled correctly, however, he can be extremely disturbing (ie his portrayal in Death in the Family and The Killing Joke), probably beating out most of DC's other villains in terms of evilness.

 

Back onto the topic of Teridax: it seems that people here have different criteria as to waht makes a villain great. Some say that it's what he achieved during the story, others say it's how strong/complex the villain's personality is. While Teridax really blows the competition out of the water in the first category (though it wouldn't have hurt to actually see some of those plans, would it?), when one actually bothers to analyze his character, one doesn't find much to analyze. His motive seems to primarily be "grr, jealous of Mata Nui, wait, the Barraki had a good idea, let's see if I can pull it off". Personally, I tend to value the latter category more than the former, because if your villain has the personality of a piece of cardboard, you might as well just make him a piece of cardboard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So what would someone who knows more about the Joker say?

From what I've read of what they say, much the same as me -- he's had a variety of tellings, some of them hopelessly cheesy, others like the newer movie portrayal but less well-known, some even edgier to the point that some say they're too dark. People can have wildly divergeant opinions about him because they're usually thinking of very different portrayals. There's no single "the Joker" (incidently, perhaps another mark against him that Teridax was kept free of; he has a cohesive story, but that's not the Joker's fault lol).

The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive)Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants

My Bionicle Fanfiction  (Google Drive folder, eventually planned to have PDFs of all of it)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find it funny how you guys treat the idea that "super cheesy and impossible to take seriously" and "extremely disturbing" are somehow mutually exclusive with the Joker.

 

 

People can have wildly divergeant opinions about him because they're usually thinking of very different portrayals. There's no single "the Joker"

 

You are saying that as if its a bad thing.

Edited by SarracenianKaijin
  • Upvote 3

hereheis.gif

 

--------------

 

Reach Heaven by Violence.

 

And while you are at it, see Bionicle characters as Magical Girls.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No.

 

His plans were nothing special. His character was nothing special. He was defeated by the good guys. The fact that he waited so long to act is applaud-able, that he spent so long planning everything out to make it all work and he actually did win at one point was well done, but after he had won, he just turned into a rather agenda-less person and he didn't take many steps to cling on to his power.

 

Teridax IS a very cool bad guy, but he's not the best.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Everything has pros and cons, Sar. That's life -- just as you'll see some people complaining about the one portrayal we got of Teridax, and a different portrayal could have helped him in their eyes, yet also the upside is we actually do know who he is. :)

  • Upvote 1

The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive)Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants

My Bionicle Fanfiction  (Google Drive folder, eventually planned to have PDFs of all of it)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Everything has pros and cons, Sar. That's life -- just as you'll see some people complaining about the one portrayal we got of Teridax, and a different portrayal could have helped him in their eyes, yet also the upside is we actually do know who he is. :)

 

Yep.

 

A boring, trite Megatron-wannabe only vaguely more interesting than a bucket of paint.

 

... Wait, that was the upside? :)

Edited by SarracenianKaijin
  • Upvote 2

hereheis.gif

 

--------------

 

Reach Heaven by Violence.

 

And while you are at it, see Bionicle characters as Magical Girls.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

A boring, trite Megatron-wannabe only vaguely more interesting than a bucket of paint.

 

... Wait, that was the upside? :)

No.Time Trap.

 

 

One decent-ish book versus a few dozen years worth of franchise history that smothered it.

 

Try again.

Edited by SarracenianKaijin
  • Upvote 1

hereheis.gif

 

--------------

 

Reach Heaven by Violence.

 

And while you are at it, see Bionicle characters as Magical Girls.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Hardly groundbreaking stuff. Even Darth Vader is arguably more complex. So is Lord Business from The LEGO Movie. And of course Lord Voldemort from Harry Potter.

I completely get how Darth Vader and Voldemort are more complex than Teridax. President Business sharing that honor also, however? How would you describe President Business as being more complex than Teridax?

 

Mainly because instead of the root of his evil ambition being wanting to control the world, there's some real explanation for why he wants to control the world.

 

 

For starters, the wild and imaginative creations of the Master Builders anger and confuse him, but beyond that, it's very strongly implied that he felt insecure because nobody ever called him "special". His redemption comes when Emmet tells him that everyone is special, Lord Business included, and places the fate of the world in his hands. That's not even getting into the whole idea of him representing Finn's father during Finn's playtime, which adds a whole other level of complexity.

 

 

The LEGO Movie is a great example of how a story can be lighthearted and silly but still have incredibly complex, multifaceted themes and characters. BIONICLE delved into much darker and grittier territory, and had an amazingly complex saga, but at its core most of its heroes and villains were not terribly complex in terms of their motivations. Much like in many Hero Factory storylines, most of the heroes acted heroically because it was the job they had been given rather than to pursue their own personal goals, and most of the villains acted villainously because they craved power for power's sake.

 

Occasionally, the BIONICLE story subverted this. The Bahrag and Bohrok Swarms are a good example opposed the Toa and Matoran not because they craved power but because the Toa and Matoran were in the way of the function they were created to perform. Likewise, the Hero Factory storyline occasionally subverts this. The Fire Villains committed crimes to feed an energy addiction that was outside their control. But for most of the villains, personal acquisition of power is their ultimate goal.

 

I suppose in the Matoran's account of the Legend of Mata Nui, Makuta did have a slightly more complex motivation than craving power for power's sake: jealousy of the Matoran's admiration of the Great Spirit Mata Nui. However, his characterization during actual events did not often reinforce his characterization in the legend. They were not actually brothers or even equals, and the story never went to great lengths to demonstrate why Makuta thought he SHOULD be revered as much as or more than the Great Spirit: he was just a run-of-the-mill megalomaniac who took the idea that the world should be his for granted.

Edited by Aanchir: Rachira of Time
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mainly because instead of the root of his evil ambition being wanting to control the world, there's some real explanation for why he wants to control the world.

 

 

For starters, the wild and imaginative creations of the Master Builders anger and confuse him, but beyond that, it's very strongly implied that he felt insecure because nobody ever called him "special". His redemption comes when Emmet tells him that everyone is special, Lord Business included, and places the fate of the world in his hands. That's not even getting into the whole idea of him representing Finn's father during Finn's playtime, which adds a whole other level of complexity.

 

 

The LEGO Movie is a great example of how a story can be lighthearted and silly but still have incredibly complex, multifaceted themes and characters. BIONICLE delved into much darker and grittier territory, and had an amazingly complex saga, but at its core most of its heroes and villains were not terribly complex in terms of their motivations. Much like in many Hero Factory storylines, most of the heroes acted heroically because it was the job they had been given rather than to pursue their own personal goals, and most of the villains acted villainously because they craved power for power's sake.

 

Occasionally, the BIONICLE story subverted this. The Bahrag and Bohrok Swarms are a good example opposed the Toa and Matoran not because they craved power but because the Toa and Matoran were in the way of the function they were created to perform. Likewise, the Hero Factory storyline occasionally subverts this. The Fire Villains committed crimes to feed an energy addiction that was outside their control. But for most of the villains, personal acquisition of power is their ultimate goal.

 

I suppose in the Matoran's account of the Legend of Mata Nui, Makuta did have a slightly more complex motivation than craving power for power's sake: jealousy of the Matoran's admiration of the Great Spirit Mata Nui. However, his characterization during actual events did not often reinforce his characterization in the legend. They were not actually brothers or even equals, and the story never went to great lengths to demonstrate why Makuta thought he SHOULD be revered as much as or more than the Great Spirit: he was just a run-of-the-mill megalomaniac who took the idea that the world should be his for granted.

Your reasoning for why President Business is considered complex is completely reasonable; I might have been tricked by the setting and tone of The Lego Movie. It's definitely worth remembering that childlike innocence and meaningful storytelling aren't always mutually exclusive, even if they often are. I have seen the film, and while it was not one of my favorites, and in fact was far from being one, I recognize that it tells a clever story.

 

I'd make a case for Teridax having another reason for wanting to rule the MU; that he truly believed that he would perform a role on the level of ruling a universe more responsibly and effectively than Mata Nui. There isn’t any instance of a narrator or a character explicitly stating that this is the case his motives, it can be inferred from the amount of detail and time spent describing his life prior to the Great Cataclysm, despite the complete lack of sets ever released to further illustrate that time period. Teridax’s life is one of the few that are described during this period; thus it stands to reason that Greg and is collaborators where attempting to emphasize his history as a force for good. He solves several of the major conflicts that threatened the safety of the Matoran, including the Barraki uprising against Mata Nui and the Matoran Civil War. Even though his solution for the latter was a cruel one, he actively helped the Matoran for thousands of years while Mata Nui paid little attention to the inhabitants of his body, failing to even notice the threats against them in many cases. This fact about Mata Nui is an official part of the canon. Up against Mata Nui, Teridax had a much better track record prior to the Great Cataclysm.

Find (digital) me under the name Azani on YouTube, Eurobricks, Discord, the BioMedia Project and the TTV Message Boards.

 

Please check out Project AFTERMAN on Tumblr and Facebook; I'm proud to have worked as their PR Manager and as a writer.

 

AAZZ.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

A boring, trite Megatron-wannabe only vaguely more interesting than a bucket of paint.

 

... Wait, that was the upside? :)

No.Time Trap.

 

 

One decent-ish book versus a few dozen years worth of franchise history that smothered it.

 

Try again.

 

 

...A few dozen?! O.o

 

Might want to go over your calendars again. I know nostalgia can have a powerful effect on memory, but surely not that powerful! Yikes.

 

Anyway, about Teridax.

 

 

I'd make a case for Teridax having another reason for wanting to rule the MU; that he truly believed that he would perform a role on the level of ruling a universe more responsibly and effectively than Mata Nui. There isn’t any instance of a narrator or a character explicitly stating that this is the case his motives, it can be inferred from the amount of detail and time spent describing his life prior to the Great Cataclysm, despite the complete lack of sets ever released to further illustrate that time period. Teridax’s life is one of the few that are described during this period; thus it stands to reason that Greg and is collaborators where attempting to emphasize his history as a force for good. He solves several of the major conflicts that threatened the safety of the Matoran, including the Barraki uprising against Mata Nui and the Matoran Civil War. Even though his solution for the latter was a cruel one, he actively helped the Matoran for thousands of years while Mata Nui paid little attention to the inhabitants of his body, failing to even notice the threats against them in many cases. This fact about Mata Nui is an official part of the canon. Up against Mata Nui, Teridax had a much better track record prior to the Great Cataclysm.

 

 

Yes! Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Teridax was a committed force for good for much of his early life -- the main problem with that was that he didn't have any respect for life, and enforced the law through brutality. This is an integral part of Teridax's character -- his fundamental lack of respect for others' right to life -- and shows through even in his alternate universe counterpart.

 

Think about it. Alternate Teridax is supposedly committed to the forces of good, but he barely thinks twice about smashing three Shadow Takanuva to pulp, and his entire motivation for crossing into the core dimension is to "shatter a distorted mirror to bits" (paraphrased). He might not be as ambitious as our Teridax, since he presumably gets plenty of respect from the Matoran and Agori, but he's just as callously cruel. That sheer lack of empathy is a keystone of Teridax's admittedly thin characterization; he's a megalomaniac psychopath.

Edited by Angel Bob
  • Upvote 3
"You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant."
-- Harlan Ellison

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I'd make a case for Teridax having another reason for wanting to rule the MU; that he truly believed that he would perform a role on the level of ruling a universe more responsibly and effectively than Mata Nui. There isn’t any instance of a narrator or a character explicitly stating that this is the case his motives, it can be inferred from the amount of detail and time spent describing his life prior to the Great Cataclysm, despite the complete lack of sets ever released to further illustrate that time period. Teridax’s life is one of the few that are described during this period; thus it stands to reason that Greg and is collaborators where attempting to emphasize his history as a force for good. He solves several of the major conflicts that threatened the safety of the Matoran, including the Barraki uprising against Mata Nui and the Matoran Civil War. Even though his solution for the latter was a cruel one, he actively helped the Matoran for thousands of years while Mata Nui paid little attention to the inhabitants of his body, failing to even notice the threats against them in many cases. This fact about Mata Nui is an official part of the canon. Up against Mata Nui, Teridax had a much better track record prior to the Great Cataclysm.

Yes! Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Terdax was a committed force for good for much of his early life -- the main problem with that was that he didn't have any respect for life, and enforced the law through brutality. This is an integral part of Teridax's character -- his fundamental lack of respect for others' right to life -- and shows through even in his alternate universe counterpart.

 

Think about it. Alternate Teridax is supposedly committed to the forces of good, but he barely thinks twice about smashing three Shadow Takanuva to pulp, and his entire motivation for crossing into the core dimension is to "shatter a distorted mirror to bits" (paraphrased). He might not be as ambitious as our Teridax, since he presumably gets plenty of respect from the Matoran and Agori, but he's just as callously cruel. That sheer lack of empathy is a keystone of Teridax's admittedly thin characterization; he's a megalomaniac psychopath.

 

You're entirely correct; I should have omitted my last sentence about Teridax's track record being much better than Mata Nui's. He considered himself to be better at ruling; however, he wasn't at all better, and in fact much worse of a ruler, as shown during his reign. He would have viewed the world from a twisted, evil, state of mind.

Edited by Artakha's Nephew

Find (digital) me under the name Azani on YouTube, Eurobricks, Discord, the BioMedia Project and the TTV Message Boards.

 

Please check out Project AFTERMAN on Tumblr and Facebook; I'm proud to have worked as their PR Manager and as a writer.

 

AAZZ.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

 

A boring, trite Megatron-wannabe only vaguely more interesting than a bucket of paint.

 

... Wait, that was the upside? :)

No.Time Trap.

 

One decent-ish book versus a few dozen years worth of franchise history that smothered it.

 

Try again.

 

...A few dozen?! O.o

 

Might want to go over your calendars again. I know nostalgia can have a powerful effect on memory, but surely not that powerful! Yikes.

 

It was only ten years! XP.

 

Anyway, I disagree that Time Trap was the only instance of Teridax getting good characterization. Admittedly the examples that most readily come to mind are in serials (which you may not have read), but even in Downfall Teridax's characterization was consistent with his Time Trap portrayal. "I'm proud...of...you..."

 

But still, even if you don't agree me with me there, IMO Time Trap was the upside - the change from the mystic force to the villain with a brain. If you didn't see him as the cookie-cutter villain before (which admittedly, pre TT he could fairly be accused of being) then the book wouldn't have had such a punch.

Edited by fishers64
Link to comment
Share on other sites

He was just a run-of-the-mill megalomaniac who took the idea that the world should be his for granted.

He wasn't a megalomaniac. According to Wikipedia, by way of the Corsini Encyclopedia of Psychology, Megalomania is "Is a psychopathological condition characterized by delusional fantasies of power, relevance, omnipotence, and by inflated self-esteem."

Terridax did not consider overthrowing Mata Nui until the Barrakis' attempt, and even then, not on account simply of his power, of which he had plenty, but of how close the Barraki came. Nor did he have delusions of relevance. In fact, he didn't realize how relevant he was to his universe. And he certainly didn't think that he was omnipotent. As for self-esteem, I certainly values himself above others, so he fits that requisite, but I don't think that fitting only that one makes him a megalomaniac. He was arrogant, ambitious, and callous, but he never aimed for power unless he was certain he could achieve it. He was incredibly patient with his plans. My mind is not terribly clear right now, so this is not the most eloquent of arguments, but I think I make my point. Megalomaniacs can be interesting, but any proper discussion of Makuta's personaiity requires a proper understanding of his personality traits.

gZsNWyr.png


(Credit to Nik the Three for the banner)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the most important point to be made is that if you have to explain a character's personality and motives and history to someone who has read/watched the same fiction as you, then that character is probably not written well and the work of fiction fails to portray the character to their full extent. Regardless of what details and explanations you manage to find to justify your claims that Teridax is an example of an excellent villain, the Bionicle story failed to depict him as such and judging a character out of the context of the work of fiction they're from is irrelevant. Just like in Sam Raimi's infamous Spider-Man 3, no matter how canonically awesome the villains were (all handful of them), the movie failed to use them to their full potential and present the audience with a "this is an excellent villain" vibe at first viewing.

Basically, if you have to go looking outside what is present in the immediate story at first review to find evidence to support that a character is good, be it a hero or villain or whatever, they are not written well and they are not a good character. Characters exist to have stories written about them, you can't look at a character outside of the role they play in the story. Actions are more important than ideologies, especially for villains. "Show, don't tell" is one of the most important rules of writing fiction.

Teridax had a lot of potential, but outside of that one awesome scene in the MNOG, that one time his personality was explored in full in Time Trap, and the success of his plan in the climax of 2008, he did not live up to it.

pomegranate-banner-sm.png .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Teridax had a lot of potential, but outside of that one awesome scene in the MNOG, that one time his personality was explored in full in Time Trap, and the success of his plan in the climax of 2008, he did not live up to it.

I think it is worth noting that Teridax did not have such an active role in the story until 2007. He appeared once in MNOG, briefly in Tales of the Masks, briefly in the Mask of Light ("let's play kohli! Whoops, we fused!") in Legends of Metru Nui mostly disguised as Dume save for the end, prominently in Time Trap, very discretely in 2006 (in his gaseous form,) prominently in 2007, in a major way at the very end of 2008, prominently in the 2009 story serials, and prominently in 2010. But what am I getting at? My point is that, of all his appearances, the ones which give the character depth are the ones in which he actually features for longer than an end of story boss-battle (except 2010, in which, for the most part, he took part in a boss-battle.) Even MNOG, which portrays him wonderfully, doesn't explore him much, merely showing his confrontation with the Toa.

I think that the appearances for which he is criticized are the ones in which he merely serves the function of being the ultimate antagonist. Which, prior to Time Trap, is all he was. There was always some potential in the idea that he was Mata Nui's "brother." But this was not really used to any great effect, though the idea of him being a protector was used well in the case of the Toa Hagah's story (in which he never actually got any "screen time," if I recall correctly.) After Time Trap, whenever he made an appearance, with the exception of 2010, he was handled with some sensitivity, as a palpable being who nonetheless lacked morals, but possessed intelligence, wit, charm, and certain distinctive playfulness.

gZsNWyr.png


(Credit to Nik the Three for the banner)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Then why did the previous topic on the subject give him more credit than this topic does? I think this might have to do with the preferences of the people discussing than actuality of Teridax's character being thin.

 

* * *

 

The problem seems to be that Teridax's character from 2007-2009 being developed primarily through serials/side reveals, and not the main story. If you just count the main story for each year, Teridax doesn't play a big role. This was primarily so the audience wouldn't notice him. In 2006 he was supposed to be dead, in 2007 he was supposed to be trying to steal the Mask of Life...maybe? In 2008 the big mystery was supposed to be where Teridax was. In 2009, the story moved out of the MU altogether, leaving him behind. This means that his development in 2007 was in "Into the Darkness" and "Dreams of Destruction" with a short cameo in Downfall. In 2008, his side of the takeover was in "Dwellers In Darkness" and "Reign of Shadows".

 

Teridax was always the mystery, always the mysterious character. In 2001-2003 he was the "stated evil behind the scenes". By 2004 he used a Turaga disguise to steal power in Metru Nui, showing a shade of guile and manipulation, and also big power. In 2005 he was defeated - but when he finally got free he revealed that his shallow defeats were part of a larger scheme. 2006 he was "dead" but he was still manipulating Zaktan, talking to him, etc. 2007 had him talking to Matoro and stomping on the Barraki, although admittedly he didn't do a good job of the latter. We see his pride getting to him. We all know what happened in 2008. He turned Miserix into a painting and reduced the Toa Hagah to believing an illusion.

 

It just adds up to a character who is proud, arrogant, has plans within plans, and innate sense of style. He's a liar, and he sees lying as an occasion for creativity. He's a shrewd manipulator who will do anything to get his way, including being stuffed in a crystal vat and making a deal with Vakama. The guy got an idea or two, had a dream (albeit a sick twisted one) and went for it with everything he had and won.

 

  • Upvote 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is Teridax a great villain? Perhaps. Is he one of the greatest villains in all of fiction? Perhaps not.

If I were to judge him solely on character, I would say that he falls flat when compared to some villains that I, personally, believe are great. I want to see inside a villain as much as I do the hero(es). Yes, you want to take over the universe; we get it. But what drives you, Teridax? What makes you tick? The first two/three years of Bionicle I was happy with him being simply "the man behind the curtain," who seemingly had little development initially, but possessed a certain presence -- one I felt he slowly lost over the years (he had his moments, though, don't get me wrong). As the story went beyond that, however, I wasn't satisfied to see him go unexplored. I wanted to learn more. But, sadly, there wasn't much to see aside from those neat moments when he was interacting one-on-one with characters like Matoro. I wish there had been more of that. As far as character goes, Teridax only added to the superfluity of flat villains who only bother trying to take over the world because they can. Not that it's necessarily a bad thing (heck, I'm writing about one of these guys myself), but it's all about the manner in which you present said villain.

And had this story been aimed at an older audience, I think they could even have upped the creep factor to make up for all of the above. I'm a sucker for villains who exist solely to creep the karz out of ya.

Now if we're talkin' accomplishments here, then yes, Teridax is right up there with Darth Sidious in terms of actually winning (technically). I like villains who can actually pull off their plans, threats, one-liners, etc. in a way that makes you realize, "oh snap, this guy means business," and you actually fear for the heroes. If there's no danger of my favorite knights-in-shining-armor getting their rears carted off to the afterlife, then I know I can't quite take the villain seriously; not in such an action-packed story. Teridax did an okay job in this department, in my opinion.

In short, if somebody asked me who I believe is the greatest villain in all of fiction, Teridax wouldn't be the first guy to come to my mind. He's somewhere on the list... just not near the top.

The guy got an idea or two, had a dream (albeit a sick twisted one) and...

Thank you. Allow me to share my awesome horrible mental-image of every other Bionicle baddie all singing 'I've Got a Dream' from Tangled.

Edited by Silverglass
  • Upvote 2

Hero Factory RPG 2.0 PCs:
| Erik Jet | Daren Wolfe | Henry Flint | Helen Corona | Ethan RezDr. Xaal |

Wasteland RPG PCs:
|
Mina |

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the most important point to be made is that if you have to explain a character's personality and motives and history to someone who has read/watched the same fiction as you, then that character is probably not written well and the work of fiction fails to portray the character to their full extent.

Not exactly -- it depends on the preferences and openmindedness (or lack thereof) of the person you're talking to. I feel Teridax as a great villain does speak for itself. The people who have the tastes to enjoy how he was portrayed don't NEED to defend him to people who inexplicably didn't see it that way. Yet it's perfectly valid, in giving our own answers to the topic question and in carrying forward the discussion when somebody says something you disagree with, to mention prominent examples of why you see it the way you do, and this isn't meant to prove to somebody who doesn't want to accept it that he's a great villain. It's just meant as a normal part of the discussion when somebody asks which villains compare to him and how so. :)

 

In other words, problem with your statement is it forgets the role of the "beholder" in judging this sort of thing. Teridax was written well in most places for what he was meant to be. To those who were "attuned" to the story, it was self-evident. :) But to somebody who wasn't, they're not likely to suddenly start agreeing because we make a logical argument for it, and that's not even what I would advise. I would advise instead they try to have an open mind, keep it in the context of the toyline it was, aimed at little kids, and wait. Later in life their tastes and perspectives might change, and they might want to come back at it and walk away liking it a lot more.

 

It was like that for me with LotR (BTW, I was trying to remember some major villains missing from the startpost list -- Sauron and Saruman! There's some more food for discussion if yall want :P). I couldn't get through Book 3 as a kid. I felt it was a downside, and for me at the time, it was. But then I matured and my preferences changed a bit, and upon going back to it I loved it that time. That's life! The portrayal didn't change, I did.

  • Upvote 2

The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive)Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants

My Bionicle Fanfiction  (Google Drive folder, eventually planned to have PDFs of all of it)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I think the most important point to be made is that if you have to explain a character's personality and motives and history to someone who has read/watched the same fiction as you, then that character is probably not written well and the work of fiction fails to portray the character to their full extent.

Not exactly -- it depends on the preferences and openmindedness (or lack thereof) of the person you're talking to. I feel Teridax as a great villain does speak for itself. The people who have the tastes to enjoy how he was portrayed don't NEED to defend him to people who inexplicably didn't see it that way. Yet it's perfectly valid, in giving our own answers to the topic question and in carrying forward the discussion when somebody says something you disagree with, to mention prominent examples of why you see it the way you do, and this isn't meant to prove to somebody who doesn't want to accept it that he's a great villain. It's just meant as a normal part of the discussion when somebody asks which villains compare to him and how so. :)

 

In other words, problem with your statement is it forgets the role of the "beholder" in judging this sort of thing. Teridax was written well in most places for what he was meant to be. To those who were "attuned" to the story, it was self-evident. :) But to somebody who wasn't, they're not likely to suddenly start agreeing because we make a logical argument for it, and that's not even what I would advise. I would advise instead they try to have an open mind, keep it in the context of the toyline it was, aimed at little kids, and wait. Later in life their tastes and perspectives might change, and they might want to come back at it and walk away liking it a lot more.

 

It was like that for me with LotR (BTW, I was trying to remember some major villains missing from the startpost list -- Sauron and Saruman! There's some more food for discussion if yall want :P). I couldn't get through Book 3 as a kid. I felt it was a downside, and for me at the time, it was. But then I matured and my preferences changed a bit, and upon going back to it I loved it that time. That's life! The portrayal didn't change, I did.

 

I am somewhat bothered by the implication that not thinking he was one of the greatest and best fictional villains ever means I didn't enjoy the character or have an open mind when I was enjoying the BIONICLE storyline. Within the context of the BIONICLE storyline, Teridax didn't bother me at all! He was well-suited to the storyline. He inspired me to draw him multiple times, and he was the by far the most iconic, definitive villain in the entire theme. This is part of why I feel like the conflict between the forces of Mata Nui and the forces of Makuta would need to be maintained as the foundation of any BIONICLE revival.

 

But this topic's very title asks us to look at him outside the context of BIONICLE, and outside of that context, he doesn't really measure up to many fictional villains throughout history. His motivations are not terribly complex compared to many historical villains. Yes, he's ruthless, calculating, mysterious, and ambitious. These are character traits that many, many villains have, and many of those villains have backstories that establish why they are that way, rather than just suggesting that it's just the way they are and have always been.

 

It's true that not all villains even in real life have motivations that can be explained, but personally, I think villains like Lord Voldemort or Darth Vader who have complex motivations are more interesting than characters like Makuta Teridax who come into being with inherent personality flaws and who become power-crazy villains as soon as they are presented with both the means and the opportunity.

Edited by bonesiii
No such thing was implied, only that those who saw him as a poorly done character should remember the role of taste and perspective, and not insult others who did not share that perspective. -bones
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@ Sar:

 

Hmm, yes, "some reason". :plain:

 

In case it needs explaining, I don't think bonesiii appreciates your criticism. To be honest, maybe bonesiii could stand to be a little less verbose when making a fairly simple point, but your tone is a little on the confrontational/putdown side (even though you included a :) at the end). I get that you don't like each other, but can you both try and be a little more polite? It's starting to become an eyesore for those of us on the sidelines.

Edited by Angel Bob
  • Upvote 2
"You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant."
-- Harlan Ellison

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The following is going to include some commentary but also a last-chance warning to the member SarrecenianKaijin; PMed warnings so far seem to have done little good, and this appears to need said.

 

It is also a warning to cease derailing this topic (or others) with off-topic tangents.

 

Well, AB, I don't know where you got that impression; I always appreciate criticism, though it should be constructive and not trying to start fights -- and my post was about as concise as possible. For the record, Sar's post was deleted because it was a clear example of trolling, which he has been warned about, and it was completely off-topic, as he has also been warned about on numerous occasions.

 

Sar, you have in the past few weeks brought up a lot of interesting reinterpretations of Bionicle, to nearly every currently active topic. I like to allow topics about this, as long as it's clear what is and isn't canon so members who might wonder that aren't confused, but it is best done in its own topic. Several members have expressed interest in seeing you make a single topic about this subject (I would allow it under the same reasoning as the "what mask would you change?" and that kind of topics (that is meant only as a recent example)).

 

You could also actually make a fanfic, which might be even better, out of your ideas.

 

The main problems with your posts have been that they have apparently sought to derail the discussions the rest of us were having in those topics which were about the subjects brought up in those topics -- and worse, that you seem to be trying to "force people into fights" -- specifically me, oddly, but also some others. This is clearly trolling, and at times has devolved into outright flaming. Neither will be tolerated, and this is your final warning. The real sad thing here is that you sought to introduce this antagonism along with your interesting perspectives on Bionicle. Really think about it -- it would have been much better if you had not involved confrontation in any of it but made giving your ideas across a positive experience for all involved.

 

I often say that when somebody has (or believes they have :P) a better way to do something, they should not turn this good thing into a club to beat other people over the head with who haven't happened to learn it themselves either. Instead they should see it as a gift they can keep giving to others. (Of course, it's also important to remember that "better" for you may depend largely on your subjective preferences and won't necessarily be better to others, and also that maybe you can learn good things from others too.)

 

You can recover from this -- just get back into discussions without antagonism, and if you think of something interesting to say that's loosely related to a particular topic but not really, start a new topic. Really, I would advise (after taking a lot of deep breaths and remembering we all want to be friends here, even as we politely disagree on some things :)) making a single topic where you can mention anything else that comes up. Basically, just be calm and have a normal discussion like you see pretty much everybody else doing all the time. Okay? :)

 

Further off-topic and spammish posts will continue to be deleted, and proto will be taken for the next infraction. If you need further help understanding the rules, or would like help making that topic, please PM me.

  • Upvote 3

The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive)Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants

My Bionicle Fanfiction  (Google Drive folder, eventually planned to have PDFs of all of it)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bonesiii:

Don't mean any disrespect whatsoever, but I have not seen anyone but you complaining about Sar's contributions to threads or the tone of his posts, neither here nor on outside social media where BZPower is discussed. His tangents present ideas that others haven't touched upon and liven up the discussion, and present unpopular opinions that add diversity to the usual comments. While he may sound adversarial, I don't think anyone is seriously upset and can work it out that his attacks aren't personal in nature and he's just defending his point of view. I feel it's unfair to single him out and put him on the spot and call him out for going "off topic" or being very adamant in expressing his beliefs when he is not the only one to exhibit this behavior and its really not as bad as you make it out to be. Outside what you may consider trolling, Sar has done nothing that breaks the rules outside having unpopular and radical opinions, and obviously striking a nerve for you. I don't see why you're confused about why he seems to have it out for you, cause it looks like you have it out for him.

I don't think anyone is too thrilled with having their posts policed and edited just because you don't like the way the conversation is going. It's hypocritical to insist that you're trying to keep everything canon for clarity and that non canon ideas should be moved into fanfics when you yourself have injected your Destiny of Bionicle ideas into various discussions to the point where there was an entire string of posts having a separate discussion about it through spoiler tags. You ask Sar to keep an open mind and respect the differing ideas of others and be respectful, but you stick to your rigid interpretations of things and then basically publicly shame him for how he expresses his opposing opinions.

I get that you're a moderator but there's comes a point where you have to consider that maybe you're going a bit far with your moderation privileges and taking advantage of them to be the highest authority in S&T discussions and go editing to change the tone of those discussions to make them appear more ordered and cheerful than they were. You may be trying to do it for the good of the forum and to protect the opinions and feelings of the users, but it looks like you're really just protecting yourself and make the forum a nicer place for you. Not saying you shouldn't have gotten involved at all, but just that you may have gone a bit overboard with it.

I am not in any way saying I'm siding with Sar and totally agree with everything he says and does, not at all, I don't like his point of view in the slightest (sorry :P) but I respect his right to post and express himself and add to a discussion in his own voice, and I have never seen anything that made me think, "hey, this guy is starting up trouble, and he's breaking rules, someone needs to ask him to stop." I certainly never though his tangents were off topic, they're tangents to the topic after all, not separate from it. I think it is unfair that he is being treated in this manner just because you have a problem with it. Like I said, I haven't seen any complaints or negative gossip about him and his posts anywhere- and it's out there, it doesn't exactly take much to get folks abuzz about a member's controversial blog entry or unpopular opinions or attitude, I see it all the time- and it looks like you have a personal vendetta against him more than anything. I understand that some recent posts may have crossed over into no-no area, but you've been doing this for a while I don't think it's justified. Not everyone is gonna sugarcoat their posts and be super positive, and singling those outliers out and shaming them for it isn't very productive. Nothing is wrong with a little diversity in the attitudes of our members.

I just wanted to put that out there and say what was on my mind, because Sar deserves a chance to have someone support him for once and I feel that if others out there feel the same way I do about this, they might be too shy or afraid to say anything so I may as well step forward and speak out. I know you're just doing your job and I'm not accusing you of doing it completely wrong or whatever, but you're human too and I get that, and it needed to be said. I also stand by Angel Bob's comment that neither of you may be using the right tone with the other, and that it's more distracting to the rest of us than whatever tangents Sar goes off on.

I'd really appreciate it if you didn't delete this or penalize me or whatever, that wouldn't really help anyone (and I did try to be polite and reasonable with my objections) and I assumed that last warning was only directed at Sar :P and I'd like to at least give Sar the chance to know not everyone is behind you on this. He's a swell dude, just very opinionated. Very, very opinionated. And his heart is in the right place.

---

As for your response to my earlier thing, I agree with the points you made about how its fine to try to support your position with examples, but I was trying to say that if a character doesn't come across as great as they could be right away, and that if you have to explain your point to someone who knows them just as well, that character just probably... Could be better. In this situation, if Teri's complexities were all presented as well as in Time Trap before 2005 and continued after 2005, he would've been a better villain. A villain's role isn't just to be villainous characters, they have to be good villains in the story. There are no villains in the real world, just people and the choices they make. They are the protagonists of their own life, their own story, and antagonists to others. In a work of fiction, you can't rip the villain out of that story's context to analyze them, the story comes with them. Otherwise they're just a character-- it's how they affect the story that makes them a villain. Sure Teri was complex as heck and his plan was grand and he was super evil- but how did that translate while you were enjoying the books and games and movies? Did he give them suspense, drama, villainy, or was he just there until he finally did something? If a sizable portion of the fans say, "eh, he could've been more villainous, and this that and the other thing could've been done differently", then the story failed to deliver the same punch to them as it did to the other portion of the fans. A mark of a good villain is that they are almost universally accepted as a good villain, in my experience. Good villains make people point out how good they were even the story as a whole was bad. Good villains strike you as good villains right away, not several years down the line. I don't see that kind of reception here. He is definitely not among the best villains in fiction, no. If he were, way more of us would be agreeing with that, no? :) That's how I see it.

Edited by Pomegranate
  • Upvote 4

pomegranate-banner-sm.png .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pom, I'll indulge this as I believe you mean well, and the job of moderating can be misunderstood, but you are in error in your characterization of what has happened. When we have rules against flaming and trolling (and this is defined as unnecessarily hostile attitudes in the S&T rules), editing posts that cross the line in terms of those rules is part of the job, and every member who joins agrees to this by virtue of joining, as is made clear both when they join and in the Reference Desk. And it's a good part -- a community where people are allowed to be hostile to each other is not the kind of place we want BZP to be; instead care should be taken to use constructive criticism. This was taken to PM warnings so as not to embarass the member as we normally do, but he continued to disobey warnings, and expressed a desire for such warnings to be posted publicly instead of privately. I have given him extraordinary latitude as it is at this point. In the old days he might have been suspended by this time. ;) (And others are still proto-dropped for less sometimes.)

 

And BTW, yes, what you just did is "armchair moderating" and should have been done by PM. The operating principle is that these things are between the member in question and the staff. Keep in mind you haven't seen all of what occurred as it has been removed, so you really can't judge all of it, nor have you seen the PM warning conversation. (So please refrain from further public comments so far as that goes. Again, further concerns or questions should be done by PM.)

 

Also, it should not matter who breaking of rules is directed at -- except that we DO have a rule that specifically states to respect staff. But there is just as much a danger of thinking someone can disrespect staff more than they would other members and expect to be able to rely on an unjustified accusation of abuse of powers, in order to get away with it. The administration has been consulted on this, and it has been agreed that a punishment may be warranted. In fact I have given him more latitude beyond his previous "last warning" than I usually would.

 

Your concerns about bias or the subjects that he has brought up are also unwarranted. As I said, we allow going into related tangents, and in fact I have a long history of encouraging it more than is traditional in most branches of BZP, although it's generally best to make a new topic when it goes significantly away from the subject in the existing topic. And there is nothing wrong with putting on the record what is consistent with canon or isn't, so that others reading along who aren't sure will be more informed. In fact, that is very helpful, especially since that's what S&T is all about. :) Nor am I the only one who has pointed out how he has gone off-topic, but if I was, that would be enough, as I know a liiiittle bit about how things work in S&T. ;)

 

I agree that his tangents are very interesting, and that is mainly why it is disappointing that he has chosen to create "sides-ism" in discussing them, apparently paranoidly wanting to believe that others aren't interested in them. I remember his posts from before a few weeks ago that did this without the negativity, and always felt they were good posts so far as I recall (I don't know what snapped, but I keep hoping we can work past it :)). Instead, it would be better for people who have ideas like this to be confident that others might be interested, and bring them up with a positive attitude. :) I strongly encourage mention of "headcanon" and other things in S&T. What is NOT okay is to use these as a bludgeon against others who see it differently, or who even just express slight criticism of it. (Although some others reacting against it could do with some more sensitivity too -- which is part of why I'm saying this publicly. :) )

 

Do not fall for a false dichotomy where it is either posting interesting ideas with hostility, or not allowing the ideas but also not having hostility. Our goal should be to have the ideas on the table (well, within reason; we do have the Library for a reason), and discuss them all respectfully. :)

 

Now, subject closed. Back to on-topic now, folks.

Edited by bonesiii
  • Upvote 3

The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive)Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants

My Bionicle Fanfiction  (Google Drive folder, eventually planned to have PDFs of all of it)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I made my opinion about Teridax being one of the best and greatest fictional villains ever because when I saw him doing his evil and villainous deeds, I feel like that I can see his potential of being one. I can see something extraoriginary about him, something that no other Lego villain, except Lord Business and possibly Von Nebula, had ever accomplished or achieved before. So, I took a deep thought about comparing him to other villains, who I listed in my start post. That is why I made this topic, to talk about it to you guys to see if you feel the same way as I do or not, but either way, you are feel to tell your feelings and opinions about it.:)

 

Anyway, back on topic here. I agree with you guys about Lord Business, Zuko, Orochimaru, and Unicron being comparable to Teridax in some ways. I would also like to think that Teridax is also like Hades from Disney and Rai's al Gul from the DC Comics in some ways, such as using people, creating armies, threatening people, and wanting to take down heroes in a hard-to-foil way.:)

 

I think that Teridax could be able to be called "the best and the greatest fictional villains ever" in a top any-number-of villains list made by officials or whatever, but I am just saying my own opinion.:) I'm not sure that if this is allowed, but I am just saying my feelings about Teridax.

  • Upvote 2

I like Lego, Bionicle, and Hero Factory!:)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I made my opinion about Teridax being one of the best and greatest fictional villains ever because when I saw him doing his evil and villainous deeds, I feel like that I can see his potential of being one. I can see something extraoriginary about him, something that no other Lego villain, except Lord Business and possibly Von Nebula, had ever accomplished or achieved before. So, I took a deep thought about comparing him to other villains, who I listed in my start post. That is why I made this topic, to talk about it to you guys to see if you feel the same way as I do or not, but either way, you are feel to tell your feelings and opinions about it. :)

 

Anyway, back on topic here. I agree with you guys about Lord Business, Zuko, Orochimaru, and Unicron being comparable to Teridax in some ways. I would also like to think that Teridax is also like Hades from Disney and Rai's al Gul from the DC Comics in some ways, such as using people, creating armies, threatening people, and wanting to take down heroes in a hard-to-foil way. :)

 

I think that Teridax could be able to be called "the best and the greatest fictional villains ever" in a top any-number-of villains list made by officials or whatever, but I am just saying my own opinion. :) I'm not sure that if this is allowed, but I am just saying my feelings about Teridax.

Of course it's allowed. we're merely discussing our opinions. Which seem mostly contrary.

  • Upvote 2

3DS Freind Code: 1693-0634-1082 Name: Joey


I also have Mario Kart 7, Animal Crossing: New Leaf, Pokemon Y and Kid Icarus: Uprising


PM me to add me. 


Steam profile


Click here for the BZP Destiny Group

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find Teridax kind of generic, to be honest, but to be fair, from what I've seen on your list, I think you're kind of younger. Nothing wrong with that, it's just that when you look outside of cartoons and you find a plethora of fantastic villains and you're just haven't been able to experience what some of the older members are calling great villains.

 

(I do question the absence of anyone from Avatar: The Last Airbender, though)

 

From the two shows I've watched most recently, Walter White and Frank Underwood are fantastic villain protagonists that I love really watching.

 

In terms of BIONICLE, though, I'd actually rank the Shadowed One much higher than Teridax on my personal list. Not that he's any less generic at times, but the addition of Shadow as a safeguard really impressed me. It's rare you see characters in the type of line BIONICLE was that show that much foresight.

Edited by Kahi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Teridax was down there with Skeletor and Mumm-Ra in terms of 'original, non-cliched villain, do not steal'. He's a pretty generic character, being a badly executed mastermind type of character that was never really abnormal from the typical saturday morning cartoon. We're not exactly seeing Adrian Veidt here.

 

He's probably the best villain Bioncle ever got, though, but to be honest I don't really remember much of anything about the villains in the storyline so there's not really that much competition.

hElbrZ6.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I forgot about Adrian Viedt. I remember when I first read Watchmen as part of my 80s comics run...I was completely blown away by how great that character was. Teridax, on the other hand, really isn't much to write home about.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some of Teridax's portrayals, I felt, probably didn't do him a lot of justice. His appearances in both Mask of Light and Legends of Metru Nui movies felt rather cliche and extremely cheesy, and nothing like the one present in say, Time Trap.

Edited by Yagami Kumi
  • Upvote 1

Signature Guidelines: Avatar and signature total file size may not exceed 100 KB!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some of Teridax's portrayals, I felt, probably didn't do him a lot of justice. His appearances in both Mask of Light and Legends of Metru Nui movies felt rather cliche and extremely cheesy, and nothing like the one present in say, Time Trap.

I don't know. I think his portrayal in Mask of Light was among his best. Instead of being a distant and mysterious enemy commanding his forces from afar, like Sauron or who knows how many other high fantasy villains, he confronted Takua directly with devilish deceptions, just like he later did with Vakama in Time Trap and with Matoro in 2007. Instead of confronting the hero in a physical, violent, no-holds-barred fight, he toyed with him using a Kolhii match.

 

Surprisingly, a number of people seem to dislike this latter decision, apparently thinking a cliché fight scene would have made for a better story than a subtler and more manipulative confrontation. But frankly, the story as it was told was much more poetic. It has some "chess with Death" overtones, plus it means the story begins and ends with a Kolhii match, though with the ending having much higher stakes. And finally, it presents Makuta as a conniving thinker, not just an overpowered brute.

  • Upvote 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find Teridax kind of generic, to be honest, but to be fair, from what I've seen on your list, I think you're kind of younger. Nothing wrong with that, it's just that when you look outside of cartoons and you find a plethora of fantastic villains and you're just haven't been able to experience what some of the older members are calling great villains.

 

(I do question the absence of anyone from Avatar: The Last Airbender, though)

 

From the two shows I've watched most recently, Walter White and Frank Underwood are fantastic villain protagonists that I love really watching.

 

In terms of BIONICLE, though, I'd actually rank the Shadowed One much higher than Teridax on my personal list. Not that he's any less generic at times, but the addition of Shadow as a safeguard really impressed me. It's rare you see characters in the type of line BIONICLE was that show that much foresight.

Well, I'm 19, and the villains in my list are from the only things that I had watched. And I think Zuko from Avatar: The Last Airbender is like Teridax in some ways.

 

Anyway, back on topic here, I also agree that Sauron and Saruman from The Lord of the Rings are comparable to Teridax, too. :)

 

Also anyway, since I can see how you guys view some villains, who are not in my list, are like Teridax in some ways, I decided to make a part 2 of my list and there it is:

27. Zuko from Avatar: The Last Airbender

28. Sauron from The Lord of the Rings

29. Saruman from The Lord of the Rings

30. Lord Business from The Lego Movie

31. Orochimaru from Naruto

32. Hades from Disney

33. Ra's al Gul from the DC Comics

34. Skeletor from the Masters of the Universe franchise

35. Unicorn from the Transformers

 

When I watched the Bionicle movies, Teridax is incredibly good at scaring and manipulating people to his advantage. He is cold-blooded when he killed people have them stay out of the way, but it is one of the most interesting things about him as a great and impressive villain. He never showed any remorse to anyone that he scared, manipulated, and killed, including his friends, brotherhood, servants, and species.

Edited by Lenny7092
  • Upvote 1

I like Lego, Bionicle, and Hero Factory!:)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I watched the Bionicle movies, Teridax is incredibly good at scaring and manipulating people to his advantage. He is cold-blooded when he killed people have them stay out of the way, but it is one of the most interesting things about him as a great and impressive villain. He never showed any remorse to anyone that he scared, manipulated, and killed, including his friends, brotherhood, servants, and species.

But none of those qualities make him any more imposing as opposed to generic. Scaring, manipulating and killing are all expected traits of a villain. Arguably, it's the execution or actor performance that makes them worthwhile. "No remorse while killing" can be said of a lot of villains, but only a few can pull off the gravitas that make them really deserving of the "best fictional villain" title. Teridax's execution just isn't that well done. I can't see him topping any actual "Top Villains List" when compared to all of the actual greats.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, I'm 19, and the villains in my list are from the only things that I had watched. And I think Zuko from Avatar: The Last Airbender is like Teridax in some ways.

 

Wait, what? How in the world are Teridax and Zuko anything alike? They both commanded soldiers, sure, and they were both pretty stubborn in pursuit of their goals, but that's where the similarities end.

 

Zuko, while angsty and impulsive for most of the show's run, is a layered character who has a variety of redeeming features (including a tragic backstory) that ultimately make him more of an anti-hero than a villain. By the end of it all, he's firmly on the good guys' side. Where do you see any of that in Teridax?

  • Upvote 1
"You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant."
-- Harlan Ellison

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Well, I'm 19, and the villains in my list are from the only things that I had watched. And I think Zuko from Avatar: The Last Airbender is like Teridax in some ways.

 

Wait, what? How in the world are Teridax and Zuko anything alike? They both commanded soldiers, sure, and they were both pretty stubborn in pursuit of their goals, but that's where the similarities end.

 

Zuko, while angsty and impulsive for most of the show's run, is a layered character who has a variety of redeeming features (including a tragic backstory) that ultimately make him more of an anti-hero than a villain. By the end of it all, he's firmly on the good guys' side. Where do you see any of that in Teridax?

 

he was...um...a good guy...but then...became.......

a bad guy

so basically just the opposite around

Like, I'd agree that Zuko and Makuta aren't very similar, but I don't think you're giving Teri quite the credit he deserves, backstory-wise at least.

 

 

 

...this Makuta is on par with the usual Saturday cartoon villains chock full of cliches, trite characteristics overdone for the sake of creating something that appears villainous and hard to conquer...
I know you say it later in your post, but I'd like to press the subject that this is a character from a storyline created for a kid's story franchise. I'm not saying he's an AMAZING villain, but for what he was for, he's pretty good.

I mean, it's like comparing Nightmare Moon/Princess Luna (from the first two episodes of MLP, anyway) to Sauron or something. There's quite a difference, and we can accept them for what they are.

rsz_screenshot_from_un_chien_andalou.jpg
My Writing Blog (more writing coming soon!)

My Bionicle/LEGO Blog (defunct)

Hyfudiar on Spotify (noise/drone/experimental music)

 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Well, I'm 19, and the villains in my list are from the only things that I had watched. And I think Zuko from Avatar: The Last Airbender is like Teridax in some ways.

 

Wait, what? How in the world are Teridax and Zuko anything alike? They both commanded soldiers, sure, and they were both pretty stubborn in pursuit of their goals, but that's where the similarities end.

 

Zuko, while angsty and impulsive for most of the show's run, is a layered character who has a variety of redeeming features (including a tragic backstory) that ultimately make him more of an anti-hero than a villain. By the end of it all, he's firmly on the good guys' side. Where do you see any of that in Teridax?

 

he was...um...a good guy...but then...became.......

a bad guy

so basically just the opposite around

Like, I'd agree that Zuko and Makuta aren't very similar, but I don't think you're giving Teri quite the credit he deserves, backstory-wise at least.

 

 

Teridax was never a good guy. He enforced the will of Mata Nui, yes, but he was still a psychopath -- one need only look at the Archives Massacre and the battle against the Barraki to see that. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that is the core of his personality. The core of Teridax is not scheming or planning or anything devious like that... it's just a sheer, callous disregard for other beings' right to life and liberty.

 

(See my previous post for a slightly more longwinded explanation, haha.)

  • Upvote 2
"You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant."
-- Harlan Ellison

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anti-hero? :P

 

But I do agree that, deep down inside, Teridax never really had it in him to be good. However, I think most good-guys that convert to bad-guys aren't completely good from the onset either. Anakin Skywalker, for example. He started out as a good-guy, but still showed flashes of corrupt characteristics before turning evil. Even if it is a seemingly harmless trait such as jealousy, future-bad-guys usually have something deep down that separates them from the rest of the good-guys.

  • Upvote 2
"What we see depends mainly on what we look for" -John Lubbock
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Well, I'm 19, and the villains in my list are from the only things that I had watched. And I think Zuko from Avatar: The Last Airbender is like Teridax in some ways.

 

Wait, what? How in the world are Teridax and Zuko anything alike? They both commanded soldiers, sure, and they were both pretty stubborn in pursuit of their goals, but that's where the similarities end.

 

Zuko, while angsty and impulsive for most of the show's run, is a layered character who has a variety of redeeming features (including a tragic backstory) that ultimately make him more of an anti-hero than a villain. By the end of it all, he's firmly on the good guys' side. Where do you see any of that in Teridax?

 

he was...um...a good guy...but then...became.......

a bad guy

so basically just the opposite around

Like, I'd agree that Zuko and Makuta aren't very similar, but I don't think you're giving Teri quite the credit he deserves, backstory-wise at least.

 

 

Teridax was never a good guy. He enforced the will of Mata Nui, yes, but he was still a psychopath -- one need only look at the Archives Massacre and the battle against the Barraki to see that. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that is the core of his personality. The core of Teridax is not scheming or planning or anything devious like that... it's just a sheer, callous disregard for other beings' right to life and liberty.

 

(See my previous post for a slightly more longwinded explanation, haha.)

 

"good" and "bad" are rather general words. What I meant by that was that he was acting on the side of good.

  • Upvote 1
rsz_screenshot_from_un_chien_andalou.jpg
My Writing Blog (more writing coming soon!)

My Bionicle/LEGO Blog (defunct)

Hyfudiar on Spotify (noise/drone/experimental music)

 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

And Teridax allied with Vakama in Time Trap...really, I don't think lack of empathy or respect is the core of Teridax - after all, he wanted everyone to respect him, rather, a selfish sense of entitlement and personal expediency. (But don't most villains have this? :shrugs:)

 

For example, in the Archives Masscre Teridax wanted nothing to do with the Matoran's petty war - he just wanted the war over and didn't care how it happened so he could go back to plotting to take over the universe and making strange plants and Rahi in the back room. If a good method would have served his ends faster, he probably would have used it, but he was also looking for respect from the Matoran as a force to be feared, and the Archives Masscre he felt was a good way to do that. Conversely, in Time Trap Teridax's #1 objective was getting the Mask of Time away from TSO, and keeping Vakama alive was helpful to that end, yes?

 

If we are to consider Alt. Teridax, keep in mind that his first objective was destroying Main Teridax. It was easier to just smash the Shadow Takanuvas then it was to plot a strategy around them, and thereby smashing them get him back to the main objective faster. Personal expediency, indeed.

Edited by fishers64
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...