Chronology of Takanuva's dimensional voyages

[WhereFMF]

Takanuva visited three wrong destinations on his journey to Karda Nui, confirmed in Takanuva's Blog:

• City of Silver
• The Kingdom
• Toa Empire

My question is about the order in which these took place. BioSector01 claims the order is as above. However, this is not possible. At the beginning of The Kingdom, it is stated "A moment before, he had stepped through a dimensional portal created by Brutaka." But no Brutaka created the portal through which he had gone at the end of Journey of Takanuva; it was the Spectral Mask.

 

This means that The Kingdom must be first in order, as the mainline Brutaka created that dimensional gate. I would say that the Toa Empire is second, because it is indicated that "the ride had already been a rough one" and he "resumed his journey to Karda Nui", indicating that the journey is only partially complete. So the City of Silver is last, and the order is

• The Kingdom
• Toa Empire
• City of Silver

I haven't read the whole of Journey of Takanuva, so it would be great if others could confirm this theory.

[Taipu1]

This makes sense, assuming Takanuva visited only 3 dimensions. Is it actually confirmed anywhere that he only visited 3 though? He could easily have been to more, and there is simply no story on those parts of his journey.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

I'm pretty sure Greg confirmed that The Kingdom was first, despite what the beginning of the story says.

[bonesiii]

First of all, I'm pretty sure the order wasn't established at first, and Greg retconned it to BS01's order. I looked into this and thought a lot about it for my retelling's version, though I don't have Journey of Takanuva either, so I could only go off of what BS01 said there, and I didn't actually search through all Greg quotes. But BS01's timing can work if you just take into account that when he wrote it, Greg thought the Kingdom would be first, but then retconned it so City of Silver came first.

 

Takanuva visited three wrong destinations on his journey to Karda Nui, confirmed in Takanuva's Blog:

• City of Silver
• The Kingdom
• Toa Empire

My question is about the order in which these took place. BioSector01 claims the order is as above. However, this is not possible.

It is possible, though your alternative may be possible too (and might make more sense). You'll have to wait for my retelling's version to see the full way I handled it (Chapter 79), but I can comment a little.

 

At the beginning of The Kingdom, it is stated "A moment before, he had stepped through a dimensional portal created by Brutaka." But no Brutaka created the portal through which he had gone at the end of Journey of Takanuva; it was the Spectral Mask.

We aren't told how long a "moment" was, though, nor how the Spectral Hau made the portal. There are two explanations of this that can keep that wording -- first, that Takanuva didn't spend much time at all in the City of Silver pocket dimension, and second, that the Spectral Hau was only able to copy a power used on somebody (this is as far as I know noncanon but it made sense to me), not make a power anew. This would explain why the Hau didn't just send him right to Karda Nui; it basically copied the broken version of the power (my theory). So under this theory, he stepped through a portal "made by Brutaka" a moment ago, from City of Silver; Brutaka made the portal, but the Hau used what Brutaka had made. And the narration could just simplify that to "made by Brutaka" because it isn't good for plot flow to summarize the actual story. (But again this is still just a retcon explanation.)

 

However, here's where putting City of Silver last does make a bit more sense (but possibly contradicted by something later); if the Hau had proper control over the portal, it wouldn't have sent Takanuva into an alternate dimension. If it came last, it might have full control, and send him right to Karda Nui. In any case, we can definitely rule out that it came second.

 

And this assumes we're supposed to see that wording as final anyways. Many little nitpicky wordings in older sources are incorrect, even in the books, according to later retcons. It's no big loss to just cut the "moment" tidbit. His surprise at finding an alternate world still makes sense here if Silver was first, since that place didn't have alternate versions of (for example) himself, etc.

 

I would say that the Toa Empire is second, because it is indicated that "the ride had already been a rough one" and he "resumed his journey to Karda Nui", indicating that the journey is only partially complete.

Agreed [well, agreed that it comes after Kingdom, not "second" per se] except that "resumed his journey" is a wording that makes sense before he actually emerges at the other end of the portal and realizes the journey is now complete in Karda Nui. And there's a subtle clue to why the Kingdom-leaving portal had to succeed in reaching Takanuva's own dimension directly, although this point is more debatable. But I'm choosing not to give it away until my version's reveal; best if others get to notice it themselves.

 

To summarize, here's my reasoning (the first three are certain, the last seemingly so):

 

1) City of Silver can't be second; it could only be first or last, since it's a pocket dimension attached to the Core Dimension.

2) Kingdom has to be the first alternate dimension Takanuva sees (but Silver isn't an alternate, so it could go first).

3) Empire has to come after Kingdom.

4) Empire apparently has to come last because of that clue I mentioned (that yall get to hunt for yourselves if you like, or wait -- but I can confirm if somebody guesses it, and FTR there's more to it non-canonically in my version).

 

Ergo, BS01's order is the only one that makes sense to me. Yes, Silver going first creates problems but they're solveable and just minor semantics anyways.

 

 

Is it actually confirmed anywhere that he only visited 3 though? He could easily have been to more, and there is simply no story on those parts of his journey.

I'd like to know that too, although I'm fine with my version only having three regardless. (Would be good to know for a sidebar comment to clarify though.)

Edited May 1, 2014 by bonesiii

[Quisoves Potoo]

1) City of Silver can't be second; it could only be first or last, since it's a pocket dimension attached to the Core Dimension.

That assumes that only the Core Dimension has such a pocket dimension attached to it. It seems to me that parallel universes like the Kingdom and the Toa Empire, being versions of the Core Dimension that took a different path at one point in history, would also have the City of Silver pocket dimension and the Zone of Darkness. The Kingdom seems to me to be particularly strong evidence, as its history was for all appearances identical to that of the Core Dimension until the events chronicled in Downfall. Surely even something as seemingly minor as the residence, and prison, of the Zivon would have noticeable effects on history?

[bonesiii]

That assumes that only the Core Dimension has such a pocket dimension attached to it.

Well, no -- it "assumes" the one he entered is the one attached to the Core Dimension, but I know whatcha meant. (There are definitely alternate versions attached to other alternate dimensions, especially all the ones that deviate after the GBs designed the Core giant robot.) But I'm under the impression it's not an assumption; I thought it was confirmed, but no I don't have a quote handy.

[fishers64]

5. Did Takanuva’s journey through the pocket dimensions go in order of: "The Kingdom," "Journey of Takanuva," then "Dark Mirror?"

5b. Did Takanuva go directly from one pocket dimension to the next?

5c. Are these the only three pocket dimensions Takanuva went to?

 

5) Yes

5b) No, you bounce through interdimensional space first

5c) Yes

 

Weird. That means that Kingdom is first, City of Silver is second, and Empire is third. Still, there's only three. That might be retconned later, though...*keeps searching*

 

As for why the Empire could be last, I recall that the Empire dimension was due to a "disruption" in interdimensional space. That means that, if the disruption had not occurred, Takanuva would have gone straight from the City (copying the power of the Kingdom) or the Kingdom to Karda Nui.

 

However, this quote throws that line of reasoning into question...

 

When main-universe-Brutaka creates a portal for Takanuva, the damaged mask sends him to another universe. You said that the right order is Kingdom and then Dark Mirror. But in The Kingdom, the next portal for Takanuva was created by an ally who knew where to send him, and in DM, it was a random portal created by Tuyet. So isn’t it more plausible to say that Takanuva first went to the DM-Universe, travelled through the "random" portal created by Tuyet and so appeared in another undesired universe, where a new, correct portal was created for him to go to Karda Nui?

Thank you.

You’re off by a little -- Brutaka opens a portal to interdimensional space, in such a way that it should lead him to where he is supposed to go. You don’t go right from Point A into Point B, you go into the space between dimensions. And because the mask was damaged, it was a rough ride and he got shunted into pocket dimensions.

 

Now, consider -- the Olmak in main universe and in The Kingdom are both damaged -- the Olmak in DM is NOT, because Brutaka was never in the Pit in that universe. So it would work better. At the same time, Takanuva is not sure he has made it to Karda Nui when he gets there.

 

Think of it this way -- your friend tells you, take Main Street and at the end of Main you’ll find the Post Office. A big snowstorm comes up, you can’t see, you wind up going down these side streets. But all the side streets are off Main, making it easier for you to find your way back and get where you wanted to go in the first place. The Olmak put Takanuva on a path through interdimensional space, and while he deviated from that path three times, he kept ending up on the same path that led to the same place.

 

Then Greg goes and contradicts himself...

 

4.A. The order is kingdom, journey of taka, ane then DM, right?

4a) No. It’s JOT, Kingdom, then DM

 

I suppose the "damaged Olmak" reasoning still works in that case, because the Spectural Hau would copy the damaged version. Still, that means that the Empire is last for sure.

Edited May 1, 2014 by fishers64

[LordofBionicles]

As far as I recall the City of Silver was the first one, although in the book "Journey of Takanuva" he appears as the 2008 set that was just because the ilustrations had to match the year's toy.

After that he went to the Toa Empire and afterwards to the Kingdom. When he said: "A portal that had been created by Brutaka" he may refer to the original one that got him out of his own dimension in the first place.

[bonesiii]

Those quotes sound like they were from before Greg really pinned down the proper terminology -- "pocket dimension" is very different from "alternate" dimension/timeline. I seem to recall that once the terms were pinned down, calling City of Silver a pocket dimension, not an alternate, was a retcon, which would explain his originally putting that second and then changing it.

 

Still, that quote saying that Kingdom Brutaka's mask was still damaged helps. I wasn't sure about that so I wrote another excuse for my retelling. Shall edit...

 

After that he went to the Toa Empire and afterwards to the Kingdom.

Reverse those. (See above posts.)

[Toa of Italy]

As far as I recall the City of Silver was the first one, although in the book "Journey of Takanuva" he appears as the 2008 set that was just because the ilustrations had to match the year's toy.

After that he went to the Toa Empire and afterwards to the Kingdom. When he said: "A portal that had been created by Brutaka" he may refer to the original one that got him out of his own dimension in the first place.

 

As to the City of Silver being the first one, I recall the same. Subsequently, I think came the Kingdom and finally the Toa Empire.

 

Personally, I'm more comfortable with the Kingdom coming first. Even if GregF said otherwise, there isn't anything in the story itself which contradicts this and this way we explain the presence of the Power Lance in Journey of Takanuva and the fact that the Kingdom seems to begin immediately after Takanuva's departure from Metru Nui.

 

I never had any problems with City of Silver being second and the Toa Empire being the third. However, reading this topic, I guess that it is more probable the other way round. Takanuva not ending up immediately in Karda Nui but in another dimension would prevent us from wondering why the Toa Empire Olmak was so precise. It would also fit with bonesiii's theory about the City of Silver being "closer" to the Core universe (since it was the last stop before Karda Nui). Finally, I think the Spectral Mask, which seems to be a powerful and wise entity, would probably be the most precise among the characters who sent Takanuva on his way (considering that, as GregF said in the answer quoted by fishers64, the Olmaks in both the main universe and the Kingdom were damaged).