Does Greg hate Lewa?

[Indigogeek]

Ok, what is up with Lewa and luck? it seems Greg just hates the toa of air! Some notable blunders are:

 

• Lewa getting taken over by an infected mask
• Lewa getting taken over by a krana (lol)
• Mistrust stemming from krana takeover from toa mata
• Losing elemental powers (kal)
• Reidak snapping his katana (only toa tool to be broken)
• Lewa getting taken over by tren krom (seriously??)
• Tren krom leaving lewa's body, just in time for teridax to boot the group into space
• Trapped in prison with mad great being (only toa mata)
• Possibly blown up by Velika in the future?

Am I missing any other events? Please tell me if I am. I just find this so strange, how much Lewa gets stuck with this stuff. Is this purely coincidence? Am I crazy? is Greg evil? Please discuss!

 

Also, Onua seems to save the day a lot for Lewa. He saved him from both the infected mask and the krana, and I'm pretty sure that there was another example. It also seemed like Onua could possibly save Lewa in the future, seeing as he is also in Bota Magna atm.

[Cambion]

little known fact: greg farshtey harbors great resentment toward all green toa/turaga/matoran from the first four story years for their ridiculous and unpleasant speech quirks, and chose to take his frustration at having to write their dialogue out on lewa

Edited May 5, 2014 by Arc

[believe victims]

Greg hates anyone whose name isn't Vezon

[Cambion]

Greg hates anyone whose name isn't Vezon

lewa really ought to change his name to vezon then

[GSR]

little known fact: greg farshtey harbors great resentment toward all green toa/turaga/matoran from the first four story years for their ridiculous and unpleasant speech quirks, and chose to take his frustration at having to write their dialogue out on lewa

 

 

Greg hates anyone whose name isn't Vezon

 

When you look past the humor this is probably way more accurate than not, frankly.

 

Anyway, it wouldn't surprise me if at some point Greg just realized how many bad things had happened to Lewa and decided to run with it for the sake of the joke. Ditto Onua saving him; he'd probably wind up pulling Lewa out of the fire again if the story had carried on, like you said. You can also make the case that a lot of this is just a side-effect of their personalities; Lewa's impulsive, Onua's dependable. Put it together and you get a natural storytelling combo and a legion of shippers.

[Eljay: Toa of Mangosteen]

Before these two fewls lead you wrong, it may be best you know that Lewa's misfortune was just the cause of a long running joke, with him getting into trouble. Onua saving him was because Onua just saved everyone very often, Tahu and Gali included.

 

I think the only true thing said here is Greg's dislike of characters that speak tree-speak.

 

 

GSR ninja'd.

Edited May 5, 2014 by Eljay: Toa of Mangosteen

[Indigogeek]

Before these two fewls lead you wrong, it may be best you know that Lewa's misfortune was just the cause of a long running joke, with him getting into trouble. Onua saving him was because Onua just saved everyone very often, Tahu and Gali included.

 

I think the only true thing said here is Greg's dislike of characters that speak tree-speak.

 

 

GSR ninja'd.

Hmm.. this is coming from a Miru wearer though... how do I know Lewa's not paying you to say these things hmm?

[Eljay: Toa of Mangosteen]

 

Before these two fewls lead you wrong, it may be best you know that Lewa's misfortune was just the cause of a long running joke, with him getting into trouble. Onua saving him was because Onua just saved everyone very often, Tahu and Gali included.

 

I think the only true thing said here is Greg's dislike of characters that speak tree-speak.

 

 

GSR ninja'd.

Hmm.. this is coming from a Miru wearer though... how do I know Lewa's not paying you to say these things hmm?

 

 

Because I haven't made my "Does Greg hate Takua?" topic yet. =P

 

[Chro]

 

Greg hates anyone whose name isn't Vezon

lewa really ought to change his name to vezon then

 

Changed it to Tren Krom for a bit

I guess anything's possible

[Indigogeek]

 

 

Before these two fewls lead you wrong, it may be best you know that Lewa's misfortune was just the cause of a long running joke, with him getting into trouble. Onua saving him was because Onua just saved everyone very often, Tahu and Gali included.

 

I think the only true thing said here is Greg's dislike of characters that speak tree-speak.

 

 

GSR ninja'd.

Hmm.. this is coming from a Miru wearer though... how do I know Lewa's not paying you to say these things hmm?

 

 

Because I haven't made my "Does Greg hate Takua?" topic yet. =P

 

 

Touche treespeaker, touche

[Aanchir]

I don't think there's any hate involved. Lewa is basically BIONICLE's equivalent of Hero Factory's Mark Surge — youthful (at least in terms of personality), reckless, and impulsive. As such, it should be no surprise that this personality tends to get him into trouble that his teammates have to bail him out of.

 

It should be noted that Lewa getting controlled by an Infected Kanohi was in the Mata Nui Online Game, not anything that Greg was responsible for, and his susceptibility to mind control in later stories might all be based on that characterization.

[fishers64]

I'll probably whip out a more detailed response later, but real fast:

• Losing elemental powers (kal)
• [...]
• Possibly blown up by Velika in the future?

It's noted that all of the Toa Nuva lost their elemental powers, not just Lewa. Also Lewa wandered out of the fortress that Velika was going to blow up, so he's probably safe from that. (Although him not getting the language upgrade and getting stuck in a village of primitives is another way of the story slapping him, if you want to view it that way.)

 

Greg not liking treespeak is a known fact, and may or may not have played into his treatment of Le-characters. For example, Greg wanted Matau to betray the group instead of Vakama. Kongu got the Suletu instead of the Mask of Flight (you can argue that it actually helped him in the end, but whatever.) Lewa was in the story the longest, so he could have gotten the shorter end of the stick.

 

In Bionicle in general, though, that case could be made for almost any character (except for Teridax). Tahu and Gali got defeated by three Rahkshi. Tahu had to rely on Lewa for help in the jungle (that was Tales of the Masks, a Greg-written-book, BTW). And Matau was the one to save Vakama (although that was a movie thing, not Greg.) Onua and Pohatu got flattened by the Rahkshi, Onua ran from a Makuta, scared out of his wits...

[Eljay: Toa of Mangosteen]

I'll probably whip out a more detailed response later, but real fast:

• Losing elemental powers (kal)
• [...]
• Possibly blown up by Velika in the future?

It's noted that all of the Toa Nuva lost their elemental powers, not just Lewa. Also Lewa wandered out of the fortress that Velika was going to blow up, so he's probably safe from that. (Although him not getting the language upgrade and getting stuck in a village of primitives is another way of the story slapping him, if you want to view it that way.)

 

Greg not liking treespeak is a known fact, and may or may not have played into his treatment of Le-characters. For example, Greg wanted Matau to betray the group instead of Vakama. Kongu got the Suletu instead of the Mask of Flight (you can argue that it actually helped him in the end, but whatever.) Lewa was in the story the longest, so he could have gotten the shorter end of the stick.

 

In Bionicle in general, though, that case could be made for almost any character (except for Teridax). Tahu and Gali got defeated by three Rahkshi. Tahu had to rely on Lewa for help in the jungle (that was Tales of the Masks, a Greg-written-book, BTW). And Matau was the one to save Vakama (although that was a movie thing, not Greg.) Onua and Pohatu got flattened by the Rahkshi, Onua ran from a Makuta, scared out of his wits...

 

I just wanted to reply to the example I highlighted in your post above. I honestly wouldn't say that was due to Matau being a Le-Toa, but more so due to character development. Greg has said multiple times in the past that Matau would have been a far better choice to defect to the bad side, as he was a far more vain hero, and was quite frustrated with becoming a Hordika. He even showed greater weakness to becoming a Rahi, as duly noted with his making of a nest. Vakama was all about being a Toa, and was rarely ever confident... His character change in 2005 made absolutely no sense, which is why Greg would have preferred Matau. And honestly, I agree with him.

 

[bonesiii]

Comments on your list after the dashes:

• Lewa getting taken over by an infected mask -- That was MNOG, not Greg. It started the running gag (or character flaw).
• Lewa getting taken over by a krana (lol) -- That was Greg, unless it wasn't his idea.
• Mistrust stemming from krana takeover from toa mata -- Natural side effect of #2
• Losing elemental powers (kal) -- Not about Lewa specifically
• Reidak snapping his katana (only toa tool to be broken) -- Yesh. Although other Toa compare -- Tahu poisoned, etc.
• Lewa getting taken over by tren krom (seriously??) -- I know, right?
• Tren krom leaving lewa's body, just in time for teridax to boot the group into space -- Effect of #6 & not just Lewa... but kinda...
• Trapped in prison with mad great being (only toa mata) -- Effect of #6 & #7... but still kinda...
• Possibly blown up by Velika in the future? -- Should read: "carried off by weird Agori tribe" (he's not in the fortress... Velika did state he would target all the Toa Mata, though, but that's again not just Lewa, and we don't know that any explosions would be involved )

 

The only three of these that definitely count are the infected mask, Krana, and Tren Krom. Other Toa have had similar things to the others happen to them, but the final point (corrected version) and the "kinda" from the previous two are candidates. And it should be noted that both Tahu and Vakama had their corrupted moments, so there's a Fire thing going on too. Anywho, this really was started by MNOG, and it does make sense; his impulsiveness tends to get him into such trouble more than others. So, it's not Greg exactly, but he took it and ran with it.

Edited May 5, 2014 by bonesiii

[Cambion]

I don't think there's any hate involved. Lewa is basically BIONICLE's equivalent of Hero Factory's Mark Surge — youthful (at least in terms of personality), reckless, and impulsive. As such, it should be no surprise that this personality tends to get him into trouble that his teammates have to bail him out of.

 

It should be noted that Lewa getting controlled by an Infected Kanohi was in the Mata Nui Online Game, not anything that Greg was responsible for, and his susceptibility to mind control in later stories might all be based on that characterization.

i love how you actually thought i was being 100% serious

[Pomegranate]

It's like the "O'Brien must suffer (at least once per season)" phenomenon in Star Trek DS9 Because Lewa is so lovable, we relate to him and feel extra bad when he gets put in danger. And then it becomes a running joke

[SarracenianKaijin]

I thought Lewa died.

Edited May 5, 2014 by SarracenianKaijin

[Indigogeek]

I thought Lewa died.

Nope! right now he's been imprisoned by tribal agori on Bota Magna

[Mr. Cup of Fail]

In my Opinion YES. I mean look at what happened to the guy, I think that is way too much for one toa to have. I am amaze that he isn't dead yet.

 

And with Onua saving Lewa, I believe so but I think he have only save Lewa two times.

[Aanchir]

 

I don't think there's any hate involved. Lewa is basically BIONICLE's equivalent of Hero Factory's Mark Surge — youthful (at least in terms of personality), reckless, and impulsive. As such, it should be no surprise that this personality tends to get him into trouble that his teammates have to bail him out of.

 

It should be noted that Lewa getting controlled by an Infected Kanohi was in the Mata Nui Online Game, not anything that Greg was responsible for, and his susceptibility to mind control in later stories might all be based on that characterization.

i love how you actually thought i was being 100% serious

 

I'm sorry, where did you get the idea that my post was in response to yours? I was responding to the original post, which seemed sincere, not to your post, which was obviously sarcastic.

[Cambion]

 

 

I don't think there's any hate involved. Lewa is basically BIONICLE's equivalent of Hero Factory's Mark Surge — youthful (at least in terms of personality), reckless, and impulsive. As such, it should be no surprise that this personality tends to get him into trouble that his teammates have to bail him out of.

 

It should be noted that Lewa getting controlled by an Infected Kanohi was in the Mata Nui Online Game, not anything that Greg was responsible for, and his susceptibility to mind control in later stories might all be based on that characterization.

i love how you actually thought i was being 100% serious

 

I'm sorry, where did you get the idea that my post was in response to yours? I was responding to the original post, which seemed sincere, not to your post, which was obviously sarcastic.

 

right. My Bad......

[Chro]

 

I thought Lewa died.

Nope! right now he's been imprisoned by tribal agori on Bota Magna

Hint: Sar's trolling

[Kopekemaster]

No more than any other character, as similar (and worse!) things have happened to other Toa and other characters.

 

And, as others have said, treespeak.

[SarracenianKaijin]

 

 

I thought Lewa died.

Nope! right now he's been imprisoned by tribal agori on Bota Magna

Hint: Sar's trolling

 

Bionicle died 4 years ago.

 

Lewa is a Bionicle character

 

Ergo, Lewa died.

[Kopekemaster]

 

 

 

I thought Lewa died.

Nope! right now he's been imprisoned by tribal agori on Bota Magna

Hint: Sar's trolling

 

Bionicle died 4 years ago.

 

Lewa is a Bionicle character

 

Ergo, Lewa died.

 

Logic. This is infallible.

[Chro]

...

 

Alright. Got me on that one.

[Constructelf]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I thought Lewa died.

Nope! right now he's been imprisoned by tribal agori on Bota Magna

Hint: Sar's trolling

Bionicle died 4 years ago.

 

Lewa is a Bionicle character

 

Ergo, Lewa died.

That argument only applies out of universe, and even then, characters in a story aren't said to die when the story ends, nor does a story really "die", perse, because for a story to truly die, it would have to be forgotten by everybody on the planet. Until that point, the story, and its characters, remain alive, if only in memory. But the important thing is that in universe, Lewa is still alive.

[NorikSigma]

Bionicle has not died yet. We're still here on this little forum tucked into a corner of the Internet talking about it. As long as there are still fans, it won't ever truly die.

 

Back on topic though, Lewa is pretty unlucky, but pretty much a lot of characters get that treatment. But it's funny, so it's okay. He's still alive, after all.

[Elissa]

As has been previously stated, I always just attributed Lewa's misfortunes to his characterization of being the leap-before-you-look kind of guy, which is the behavior that will get anyone into trouble. If I'm not mistaken, it has happens to Tahu a number of times too.

[CeeCee]

 

I'll probably whip out a more detailed response later, but real fast:

• Losing elemental powers (kal)
• [...]
• Possibly blown up by Velika in the future?

It's noted that all of the Toa Nuva lost their elemental powers, not just Lewa. Also Lewa wandered out of the fortress that Velika was going to blow up, so he's probably safe from that. (Although him not getting the language upgrade and getting stuck in a village of primitives is another way of the story slapping him, if you want to view it that way.)

 

Greg not liking treespeak is a known fact, and may or may not have played into his treatment of Le-characters. For example, Greg wanted Matau to betray the group instead of Vakama. Kongu got the Suletu instead of the Mask of Flight (you can argue that it actually helped him in the end, but whatever.) Lewa was in the story the longest, so he could have gotten the shorter end of the stick.

 

In Bionicle in general, though, that case could be made for almost any character (except for Teridax). Tahu and Gali got defeated by three Rahkshi. Tahu had to rely on Lewa for help in the jungle (that was Tales of the Masks, a Greg-written-book, BTW). And Matau was the one to save Vakama (although that was a movie thing, not Greg.) Onua and Pohatu got flattened by the Rahkshi, Onua ran from a Makuta, scared out of his wits...

 

I just wanted to reply to the example I highlighted in your post above. I honestly wouldn't say that was due to Matau being a Le-Toa, but more so due to character development. Greg has said multiple times in the past that Matau would have been a far better choice to defect to the bad side, as he was a far more vain hero, and was quite frustrated with becoming a Hordika. He even showed greater weakness to becoming a Rahi, as duly noted with his making of a nest. Vakama was all about being a Toa, and was rarely ever confident... His character change in 2005 made absolutely no sense, which is why Greg would have preferred Matau. And honestly, I agree with him.

 

 

Eww. No way should Matau have become the villian. It was vital for both characters development that Vakama was the antagonist and Mataus was the protagonist in WoS. I also think Vakama was way more susceptible because he was so insecure. So Im glad Matau became the hero in the end.

[Master Inika]

 

 

I'll probably whip out a more detailed response later, but real fast:

• Losing elemental powers (kal)
• [...]
• Possibly blown up by Velika in the future?

It's noted that all of the Toa Nuva lost their elemental powers, not just Lewa. Also Lewa wandered out of the fortress that Velika was going to blow up, so he's probably safe from that. (Although him not getting the language upgrade and getting stuck in a village of primitives is another way of the story slapping him, if you want to view it that way.)

 

Greg not liking treespeak is a known fact, and may or may not have played into his treatment of Le-characters. For example, Greg wanted Matau to betray the group instead of Vakama. Kongu got the Suletu instead of the Mask of Flight (you can argue that it actually helped him in the end, but whatever.) Lewa was in the story the longest, so he could have gotten the shorter end of the stick.

 

In Bionicle in general, though, that case could be made for almost any character (except for Teridax). Tahu and Gali got defeated by three Rahkshi. Tahu had to rely on Lewa for help in the jungle (that was Tales of the Masks, a Greg-written-book, BTW). And Matau was the one to save Vakama (although that was a movie thing, not Greg.) Onua and Pohatu got flattened by the Rahkshi, Onua ran from a Makuta, scared out of his wits...

 

I just wanted to reply to the example I highlighted in your post above. I honestly wouldn't say that was due to Matau being a Le-Toa, but more so due to character development. Greg has said multiple times in the past that Matau would have been a far better choice to defect to the bad side, as he was a far more vain hero, and was quite frustrated with becoming a Hordika. He even showed greater weakness to becoming a Rahi, as duly noted with his making of a nest. Vakama was all about being a Toa, and was rarely ever confident... His character change in 2005 made absolutely no sense, which is why Greg would have preferred Matau. And honestly, I agree with him.

 

 

Eww. No way should Matau have become the villian. It was vital for both characters development that Vakama was the antagonist and Mataus was the protagonist in WoS. I also think Vakama was way more susceptible because he was so insecure. So Im glad Matau became the hero in the end.

 

The main stretch Greg had to make was having Vakama become so arrogant when they first arrived back after LoMN. I could tell that it was extremely forced. However, at the same time, I understand that if had to be Vakama because the point was that the Toa Hordika wouldn't be able to function without their leader. I think that Greg handled it as best he could. Vakama's arc after their mutation made sense to me.

[Aanchir]

 

 

 

I'll probably whip out a more detailed response later, but real fast:

• Losing elemental powers (kal)
• [...]
• Possibly blown up by Velika in the future?

It's noted that all of the Toa Nuva lost their elemental powers, not just Lewa. Also Lewa wandered out of the fortress that Velika was going to blow up, so he's probably safe from that. (Although him not getting the language upgrade and getting stuck in a village of primitives is another way of the story slapping him, if you want to view it that way.)

 

Greg not liking treespeak is a known fact, and may or may not have played into his treatment of Le-characters. For example, Greg wanted Matau to betray the group instead of Vakama. Kongu got the Suletu instead of the Mask of Flight (you can argue that it actually helped him in the end, but whatever.) Lewa was in the story the longest, so he could have gotten the shorter end of the stick.

 

In Bionicle in general, though, that case could be made for almost any character (except for Teridax). Tahu and Gali got defeated by three Rahkshi. Tahu had to rely on Lewa for help in the jungle (that was Tales of the Masks, a Greg-written-book, BTW). And Matau was the one to save Vakama (although that was a movie thing, not Greg.) Onua and Pohatu got flattened by the Rahkshi, Onua ran from a Makuta, scared out of his wits...

 

I just wanted to reply to the example I highlighted in your post above. I honestly wouldn't say that was due to Matau being a Le-Toa, but more so due to character development. Greg has said multiple times in the past that Matau would have been a far better choice to defect to the bad side, as he was a far more vain hero, and was quite frustrated with becoming a Hordika. He even showed greater weakness to becoming a Rahi, as duly noted with his making of a nest. Vakama was all about being a Toa, and was rarely ever confident... His character change in 2005 made absolutely no sense, which is why Greg would have preferred Matau. And honestly, I agree with him.

 

 

Eww. No way should Matau have become the villian. It was vital for both characters development that Vakama was the antagonist and Mataus was the protagonist in WoS. I also think Vakama was way more susceptible because he was so insecure. So Im glad Matau became the hero in the end.

 

The main stretch Greg had to make was having Vakama become so arrogant when they first arrived back after LoMN. I could tell that it was extremely forced. However, at the same time, I understand that if had to be Vakama because the point was that the Toa Hordika wouldn't be able to function without their leader. I think that Greg handled it as best he could. Vakama's arc after their mutation made sense to me.

 

I didn't see Vakama become arrogant in the 2005 storyline. If anything, he became rather self-loathing, blaming himself for Lhikan's death and considering himself unworthy of being a hero. This led him to desert his team. And after he was convinced that he didn't belong with his fellow heroes, he was left very vulnerable to the suggestion that his true place was with the Visorak horde.

 

I think Greg handled things very elegantly. Of course, if the story team had gone with his plan and made Matau betray the rest, I'm sure he could have written it just as well — but I feel that it would not have been quite so impressive a feat as a writer to make a somewhat self-centered and volatile character even more self-centered and volatile. Vakama had to be utterly broken before he could be convinced to switch sides. He had to be convinced that his duty to Metru Nui was a lost cause, and that his destiny as a hero was a convenient lie, and that his unity with his teammates had been built on that lie.

Edited June 7, 2014 by Aanchir: Rachira of Time

[Master Inika]

 

 

 

 

I'll probably whip out a more detailed response later, but real fast:

• Losing elemental powers (kal)
• [...]
• Possibly blown up by Velika in the future?

It's noted that all of the Toa Nuva lost their elemental powers, not just Lewa. Also Lewa wandered out of the fortress that Velika was going to blow up, so he's probably safe from that. (Although him not getting the language upgrade and getting stuck in a village of primitives is another way of the story slapping him, if you want to view it that way.)

 

Greg not liking treespeak is a known fact, and may or may not have played into his treatment of Le-characters. For example, Greg wanted Matau to betray the group instead of Vakama. Kongu got the Suletu instead of the Mask of Flight (you can argue that it actually helped him in the end, but whatever.) Lewa was in the story the longest, so he could have gotten the shorter end of the stick.

 

In Bionicle in general, though, that case could be made for almost any character (except for Teridax). Tahu and Gali got defeated by three Rahkshi. Tahu had to rely on Lewa for help in the jungle (that was Tales of the Masks, a Greg-written-book, BTW). And Matau was the one to save Vakama (although that was a movie thing, not Greg.) Onua and Pohatu got flattened by the Rahkshi, Onua ran from a Makuta, scared out of his wits...

 

I just wanted to reply to the example I highlighted in your post above. I honestly wouldn't say that was due to Matau being a Le-Toa, but more so due to character development. Greg has said multiple times in the past that Matau would have been a far better choice to defect to the bad side, as he was a far more vain hero, and was quite frustrated with becoming a Hordika. He even showed greater weakness to becoming a Rahi, as duly noted with his making of a nest. Vakama was all about being a Toa, and was rarely ever confident... His character change in 2005 made absolutely no sense, which is why Greg would have preferred Matau. And honestly, I agree with him.

 

 

Eww. No way should Matau have become the villian. It was vital for both characters development that Vakama was the antagonist and Mataus was the protagonist in WoS. I also think Vakama was way more susceptible because he was so insecure. So Im glad Matau became the hero in the end.

 

The main stretch Greg had to make was having Vakama become so arrogant when they first arrived back after LoMN. I could tell that it was extremely forced. However, at the same time, I understand that if had to be Vakama because the point was that the Toa Hordika wouldn't be able to function without their leader. I think that Greg handled it as best he could. Vakama's arc after their mutation made sense to me.

 

I didn't see Vakama become arrogant in the 2005 storyline. If anything, he became rather self-loathing, blaming himself for Lhikan's death and considering himself unworthy of being a hero. This led him to desert his team. And after he was convinced that he didn't belong with his fellow heroes, he was left very vulnerable to the suggestion that his true place was with the Visorak horde.

 

I think Greg handled things very elegantly. Of course, if the story team had gone with his plan and made Matau betray the rest, I'm sure he could have written it just as well — but I feel that it would not have been quite so impressive a feat as a writer to make a somewhat self-centered and volatile character even more self-centered and volatile. Vakama had to be utterly broken before he could be convinced to switch sides. He had to be convinced that his duty to Metru Nui was a lost cause, and that his destiny as a hero was a convenient lie, and that his unity with his teammates had been built on that lie.

 

In regards to the books and comics, you're right. I was thinking of the film, where he comes off as quite cocky in his first scenes.

[Wazdakka]

I never really thought of it, but it could just be a simple running gag that Greg continued, sort of like Waspinator from Transformers: Beast Wars - renowned for his misfortunes.

[Oroki]

In my Opinion YES. I mean look at what happened to the guy, I think that is way too much for one toa to have. I am amaze that he isn't dead yet.

 

And with Onua saving Lewa, I believe so but I think he have only save Lewa two times.

*three times. Onua catches Lewa from falling duing the final battle. I think it's in one of the comics.

[CeeCee]

 

 

 

 

 

I'll probably whip out a more detailed response later, but real fast:

• Losing elemental powers (kal)
• [...]
• Possibly blown up by Velika in the future?

It's noted that all of the Toa Nuva lost their elemental powers, not just Lewa. Also Lewa wandered out of the fortress that Velika was going to blow up, so he's probably safe from that. (Although him not getting the language upgrade and getting stuck in a village of primitives is another way of the story slapping him, if you want to view it that way.)

 

Greg not liking treespeak is a known fact, and may or may not have played into his treatment of Le-characters. For example, Greg wanted Matau to betray the group instead of Vakama. Kongu got the Suletu instead of the Mask of Flight (you can argue that it actually helped him in the end, but whatever.) Lewa was in the story the longest, so he could have gotten the shorter end of the stick.

 

In Bionicle in general, though, that case could be made for almost any character (except for Teridax). Tahu and Gali got defeated by three Rahkshi. Tahu had to rely on Lewa for help in the jungle (that was Tales of the Masks, a Greg-written-book, BTW). And Matau was the one to save Vakama (although that was a movie thing, not Greg.) Onua and Pohatu got flattened by the Rahkshi, Onua ran from a Makuta, scared out of his wits...

 

I just wanted to reply to the example I highlighted in your post above. I honestly wouldn't say that was due to Matau being a Le-Toa, but more so due to character development. Greg has said multiple times in the past that Matau would have been a far better choice to defect to the bad side, as he was a far more vain hero, and was quite frustrated with becoming a Hordika. He even showed greater weakness to becoming a Rahi, as duly noted with his making of a nest. Vakama was all about being a Toa, and was rarely ever confident... His character change in 2005 made absolutely no sense, which is why Greg would have preferred Matau. And honestly, I agree with him.

 

 

Eww. No way should Matau have become the villian. It was vital for both characters development that Vakama was the antagonist and Mataus was the protagonist in WoS. I also think Vakama was way more susceptible because he was so insecure. So Im glad Matau became the hero in the end.

 

The main stretch Greg had to make was having Vakama become so arrogant when they first arrived back after LoMN. I could tell that it was extremely forced. However, at the same time, I understand that if had to be Vakama because the point was that the Toa Hordika wouldn't be able to function without their leader. I think that Greg handled it as best he could. Vakama's arc after their mutation made sense to me.

 

I didn't see Vakama become arrogant in the 2005 storyline. If anything, he became rather self-loathing, blaming himself for Lhikan's death and considering himself unworthy of being a hero. This led him to desert his team. And after he was convinced that he didn't belong with his fellow heroes, he was left very vulnerable to the suggestion that his true place was with the Visorak horde.

 

I think Greg handled things very elegantly. Of course, if the story team had gone with his plan and made Matau betray the rest, I'm sure he could have written it just as well — but I feel that it would not have been quite so impressive a feat as a writer to make a somewhat self-centered and volatile character even more self-centered and volatile. Vakama had to be utterly broken before he could be convinced to switch sides. He had to be convinced that his duty to Metru Nui was a lost cause, and that his destiny as a hero was a convenient lie, and that his unity with his teammates had been built on that lie.

 

In regards to the books and comics, you're right. I was thinking of the film, where he comes off as quite cocky in his first scenes.

 

You know I have been thinking about this a lot recently since my last post. I think the only Toa who could have turned WAS Vakama. I think there was a lot of reading between the lines in the Metru Nui are, esspecially WoS era. Vakama did act cockey yes. But its a very common thing for mor insecure people to act sometimes overly confident to mask their true feeling. Yes, they had defeated Makuta but I still dont think Vakama felt he was ready. I still strongly bveleive that Vakama would have turned eventually even without the Visorak venom. That was only a trigger. I think becuase if his feeling of inadequacy he felt inferior and almost craved to be stronger and better so he acted out in anger and betrayed his brothers(who I think his anger towards them was a reflection of his self hatred).

 

I also think that when he accepted Roodakas offer of Ta-Metru, it wasn't out of a power lust. I think his old Toa self still believed he could make a better place and he still cared about the Matoran greatly(remember, it was the thing that brought him round).

 

As for Matau, I always saw him as a mirror character to Vakama. I think both were as insecure as the other both for similar and entirely different reasons. They got on each others nerves and it seemed like they hated each others guts, but I think they had the strongest bond out of all the Toa. They were best friends, with out a doubt. Not in the same way that Vakama and Nokama were best friends(supportive and caring), but they both learned from each others mistakes and success. I honestly think that if Vakama would haveturned for good, it would have been Matau who would have taken charge of the Metru. He seemed to develop a lot as a Hordika and matured a great deal. I really wish they would have played more upon Matau accepting his responsibility in the movie, although I think one of his last lines where he basically said he would kill Vakama if he needed to, showed this too(yet I think also a darker side to Matau, similar to Vakama). He was willing to kill his best friend to save the Matoran which was his duty.

 

Sorry if it seems like a tangent, but its always how I interpreted the characters.

[LeKon551]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll probably whip out a more detailed response later, but real fast:

• Losing elemental powers (kal)
• [...]
• Possibly blown up by Velika in the future?

It's noted that all of the Toa Nuva lost their elemental powers, not just Lewa. Also Lewa wandered out of the fortress that Velika was going to blow up, so he's probably safe from that. (Although him not getting the language upgrade and getting stuck in a village of primitives is another way of the story slapping him, if you want to view it that way.)

 

Greg not liking treespeak is a known fact, and may or may not have played into his treatment of Le-characters. For example, Greg wanted Matau to betray the group instead of Vakama. Kongu got the Suletu instead of the Mask of Flight (you can argue that it actually helped him in the end, but whatever.) Lewa was in the story the longest, so he could have gotten the shorter end of the stick.

 

In Bionicle in general, though, that case could be made for almost any character (except for Teridax). Tahu and Gali got defeated by three Rahkshi. Tahu had to rely on Lewa for help in the jungle (that was Tales of the Masks, a Greg-written-book, BTW). And Matau was the one to save Vakama (although that was a movie thing, not Greg.) Onua and Pohatu got flattened by the Rahkshi, Onua ran from a Makuta, scared out of his wits...

 

I just wanted to reply to the example I highlighted in your post above. I honestly wouldn't say that was due to Matau being a Le-Toa, but more so due to character development. Greg has said multiple times in the past that Matau would have been a far better choice to defect to the bad side, as he was a far more vain hero, and was quite frustrated with becoming a Hordika. He even showed greater weakness to becoming a Rahi, as duly noted with his making of a nest. Vakama was all about being a Toa, and was rarely ever confident... His character change in 2005 made absolutely no sense, which is why Greg would have preferred Matau. And honestly, I agree with him.

 

 

Eww. No way should Matau have become the villian. It was vital for both characters development that Vakama was the antagonist and Mataus was the protagonist in WoS. I also think Vakama was way more susceptible because he was so insecure. So Im glad Matau became the hero in the end.

 

The main stretch Greg had to make was having Vakama become so arrogant when they first arrived back after LoMN. I could tell that it was extremely forced. However, at the same time, I understand that if had to be Vakama because the point was that the Toa Hordika wouldn't be able to function without their leader. I think that Greg handled it as best he could. Vakama's arc after their mutation made sense to me.

 

I didn't see Vakama become arrogant in the 2005 storyline. If anything, he became rather self-loathing, blaming himself for Lhikan's death and considering himself unworthy of being a hero. This led him to desert his team. And after he was convinced that he didn't belong with his fellow heroes, he was left very vulnerable to the suggestion that his true place was with the Visorak horde.

 

I think Greg handled things very elegantly. Of course, if the story team had gone with his plan and made Matau betray the rest, I'm sure he could have written it just as well — but I feel that it would not have been quite so impressive a feat as a writer to make a somewhat self-centered and volatile character even more self-centered and volatile. Vakama had to be utterly broken before he could be convinced to switch sides. He had to be convinced that his duty to Metru Nui was a lost cause, and that his destiny as a hero was a convenient lie, and that his unity with his teammates had been built on that lie.

 

In regards to the books and comics, you're right. I was thinking of the film, where he comes off as quite cocky in his first scenes.

 

You know I have been thinking about this a lot recently since my last post. I think the only Toa who could have turned WAS Vakama. I think there was a lot of reading between the lines in the Metru Nui are, esspecially WoS era. Vakama did act cockey yes. But its a very common thing for mor insecure people to act sometimes overly confident to mask their true feeling. Yes, they had defeated Makuta but I still dont think Vakama felt he was ready. I still strongly bveleive that Vakama would have turned eventually even without the Visorak venom. That was only a trigger. I think becuase if his feeling of inadequacy he felt inferior and almost craved to be stronger and better so he acted out in anger and betrayed his brothers(who I think his anger towards them was a reflection of his self hatred).

 

I also think that when he accepted Roodakas offer of Ta-Metru, it wasn't out of a power lust. I think his old Toa self still believed he could make a better place and he still cared about the Matoran greatly(remember, it was the thing that brought him round).

 

As for Matau, I always saw him as a mirror character to Vakama. I think both were as insecure as the other both for similar and entirely different reasons. They got on each others nerves and it seemed like they hated each others guts, but I think they had the strongest bond out of all the Toa. They were best friends, with out a doubt. Not in the same way that Vakama and Nokama were best friends(supportive and caring), but they both learned from each others mistakes and success. I honestly think that if Vakama would haveturned for good, it would have been Matau who would have taken charge of the Metru. He seemed to develop a lot as a Hordika and matured a great deal. I really wish they would have played more upon Matau accepting his responsibility in the movie, although I think one of his last lines where he basically said he would kill Vakama if he needed to, showed this too(yet I think also a darker side to Matau, similar to Vakama). He was willing to kill his best friend to save the Matoran which was his duty.

 

Sorry if it seems like a tangent, but its always how I interpreted the characters.

 

 

Actually, I watched WoS again yesterday (for nostalgia reasons), and none of the Hordika ever mentioned the thought of killing Vakama.

 

And in my opinion, Matau didn't suddenly mature so much that he would have been good enough to be their next leader. When they met Keetongu, he was quite extremely irritated to find that "We came all this way, just to find out WE DIDN'T HAVE TO COME ALL THIS WAY?!" As a Toa of Air, he's naturally playful and boisterous, although he is vain, which I think is uncommon, if not rare, as well as the fact that he flirts with Nokama at least once in LoMN. I think that Air Toa are generally too childlike to be leaders as they don't seem very serious at the best (or sometimes even the worst) of times, and Matau was peeved only because he was part beast (which ruined his good looks) in WoS. It would still have been a struggle to make him the traitor, because as we all know, the Toa of Air never act maliciously of their own free will.

[CeeCee]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll probably whip out a more detailed response later, but real fast:

• Losing elemental powers (kal)
• [...]
• Possibly blown up by Velika in the future?

It's noted that all of the Toa Nuva lost their elemental powers, not just Lewa. Also Lewa wandered out of the fortress that Velika was going to blow up, so he's probably safe from that. (Although him not getting the language upgrade and getting stuck in a village of primitives is another way of the story slapping him, if you want to view it that way.)

 

Greg not liking treespeak is a known fact, and may or may not have played into his treatment of Le-characters. For example, Greg wanted Matau to betray the group instead of Vakama. Kongu got the Suletu instead of the Mask of Flight (you can argue that it actually helped him in the end, but whatever.) Lewa was in the story the longest, so he could have gotten the shorter end of the stick.

 

In Bionicle in general, though, that case could be made for almost any character (except for Teridax). Tahu and Gali got defeated by three Rahkshi. Tahu had to rely on Lewa for help in the jungle (that was Tales of the Masks, a Greg-written-book, BTW). And Matau was the one to save Vakama (although that was a movie thing, not Greg.) Onua and Pohatu got flattened by the Rahkshi, Onua ran from a Makuta, scared out of his wits...

 

I just wanted to reply to the example I highlighted in your post above. I honestly wouldn't say that was due to Matau being a Le-Toa, but more so due to character development. Greg has said multiple times in the past that Matau would have been a far better choice to defect to the bad side, as he was a far more vain hero, and was quite frustrated with becoming a Hordika. He even showed greater weakness to becoming a Rahi, as duly noted with his making of a nest. Vakama was all about being a Toa, and was rarely ever confident... His character change in 2005 made absolutely no sense, which is why Greg would have preferred Matau. And honestly, I agree with him.

 

 

Eww. No way should Matau have become the villian. It was vital for both characters development that Vakama was the antagonist and Mataus was the protagonist in WoS. I also think Vakama was way more susceptible because he was so insecure. So Im glad Matau became the hero in the end.

 

The main stretch Greg had to make was having Vakama become so arrogant when they first arrived back after LoMN. I could tell that it was extremely forced. However, at the same time, I understand that if had to be Vakama because the point was that the Toa Hordika wouldn't be able to function without their leader. I think that Greg handled it as best he could. Vakama's arc after their mutation made sense to me.

 

I didn't see Vakama become arrogant in the 2005 storyline. If anything, he became rather self-loathing, blaming himself for Lhikan's death and considering himself unworthy of being a hero. This led him to desert his team. And after he was convinced that he didn't belong with his fellow heroes, he was left very vulnerable to the suggestion that his true place was with the Visorak horde.

 

I think Greg handled things very elegantly. Of course, if the story team had gone with his plan and made Matau betray the rest, I'm sure he could have written it just as well — but I feel that it would not have been quite so impressive a feat as a writer to make a somewhat self-centered and volatile character even more self-centered and volatile. Vakama had to be utterly broken before he could be convinced to switch sides. He had to be convinced that his duty to Metru Nui was a lost cause, and that his destiny as a hero was a convenient lie, and that his unity with his teammates had been built on that lie.

 

In regards to the books and comics, you're right. I was thinking of the film, where he comes off as quite cocky in his first scenes.

 

You know I have been thinking about this a lot recently since my last post. I think the only Toa who could have turned WAS Vakama. I think there was a lot of reading between the lines in the Metru Nui are, esspecially WoS era. Vakama did act cockey yes. But its a very common thing for mor insecure people to act sometimes overly confident to mask their true feeling. Yes, they had defeated Makuta but I still dont think Vakama felt he was ready. I still strongly bveleive that Vakama would have turned eventually even without the Visorak venom. That was only a trigger. I think becuase if his feeling of inadequacy he felt inferior and almost craved to be stronger and better so he acted out in anger and betrayed his brothers(who I think his anger towards them was a reflection of his self hatred).

 

I also think that when he accepted Roodakas offer of Ta-Metru, it wasn't out of a power lust. I think his old Toa self still believed he could make a better place and he still cared about the Matoran greatly(remember, it was the thing that brought him round).

 

As for Matau, I always saw him as a mirror character to Vakama. I think both were as insecure as the other both for similar and entirely different reasons. They got on each others nerves and it seemed like they hated each others guts, but I think they had the strongest bond out of all the Toa. They were best friends, with out a doubt. Not in the same way that Vakama and Nokama were best friends(supportive and caring), but they both learned from each others mistakes and success. I honestly think that if Vakama would haveturned for good, it would have been Matau who would have taken charge of the Metru. He seemed to develop a lot as a Hordika and matured a great deal. I really wish they would have played more upon Matau accepting his responsibility in the movie, although I think one of his last lines where he basically said he would kill Vakama if he needed to, showed this too(yet I think also a darker side to Matau, similar to Vakama). He was willing to kill his best friend to save the Matoran which was his duty.

 

Sorry if it seems like a tangent, but its always how I interpreted the characters.

 

 

Actually, I watched WoS again yesterday (for nostalgia reasons), and none of the Hordika ever mentioned the thought of killing Vakama.

 

And in my opinion, Matau didn't suddenly mature so much that he would have been good enough to be their next leader. When they met Keetongu, he was quite extremely irritated to find that "We came all this way, just to find out WE DIDN'T HAVE TO COME ALL THIS WAY?!" As a Toa of Air, he's naturally playful and boisterous, although he is vain, which I think is uncommon, if not rare, as well as the fact that he flirts with Nokama at least once in LoMN. I think that Air Toa are generally too childlike to be leaders as they don't seem very serious at the best (or sometimes even the worst) of times, and Matau was peeved only because he was part beast (which ruined his good looks) in WoS. It would still have been a struggle to make him the traitor, because as we all know, the Toa of Air never act maliciously of their own free will.

 

When one of the Toa says something along the lines of "What if Vakama doesn't turn back?" Matau replies "leave that to me". I cant see many other ways of looking at that IMO. And the speech in the last fight was Matau maturing a great deal. If he had dealt with Vakama, I think it would have changed him tremendously. By the end of WoS he would have been ready to lead. All boys can be boisterous, playful and vain at times, and as we grow into men, we keep these traits(some more than others) yet we evolve by our surroundings and responsibilities. Thats what happened to Matau, I just dont think the flim portrayed it quite so well. Which is why I think the Metru Nui era should have been a trilogy, with Vakamas fall at the end of the second film and Matau maturing through all three.

[LeKon551]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll probably whip out a more detailed response later, but real fast:

• Losing elemental powers (kal)
• [...]
• Possibly blown up by Velika in the future?

It's noted that all of the Toa Nuva lost their elemental powers, not just Lewa. Also Lewa wandered out of the fortress that Velika was going to blow up, so he's probably safe from that. (Although him not getting the language upgrade and getting stuck in a village of primitives is another way of the story slapping him, if you want to view it that way.)

 

Greg not liking treespeak is a known fact, and may or may not have played into his treatment of Le-characters. For example, Greg wanted Matau to betray the group instead of Vakama. Kongu got the Suletu instead of the Mask of Flight (you can argue that it actually helped him in the end, but whatever.) Lewa was in the story the longest, so he could have gotten the shorter end of the stick.

 

In Bionicle in general, though, that case could be made for almost any character (except for Teridax). Tahu and Gali got defeated by three Rahkshi. Tahu had to rely on Lewa for help in the jungle (that was Tales of the Masks, a Greg-written-book, BTW). And Matau was the one to save Vakama (although that was a movie thing, not Greg.) Onua and Pohatu got flattened by the Rahkshi, Onua ran from a Makuta, scared out of his wits...

 

I just wanted to reply to the example I highlighted in your post above. I honestly wouldn't say that was due to Matau being a Le-Toa, but more so due to character development. Greg has said multiple times in the past that Matau would have been a far better choice to defect to the bad side, as he was a far more vain hero, and was quite frustrated with becoming a Hordika. He even showed greater weakness to becoming a Rahi, as duly noted with his making of a nest. Vakama was all about being a Toa, and was rarely ever confident... His character change in 2005 made absolutely no sense, which is why Greg would have preferred Matau. And honestly, I agree with him.

 

 

Eww. No way should Matau have become the villian. It was vital for both characters development that Vakama was the antagonist and Mataus was the protagonist in WoS. I also think Vakama was way more susceptible because he was so insecure. So Im glad Matau became the hero in the end.

 

The main stretch Greg had to make was having Vakama become so arrogant when they first arrived back after LoMN. I could tell that it was extremely forced. However, at the same time, I understand that if had to be Vakama because the point was that the Toa Hordika wouldn't be able to function without their leader. I think that Greg handled it as best he could. Vakama's arc after their mutation made sense to me.

 

I didn't see Vakama become arrogant in the 2005 storyline. If anything, he became rather self-loathing, blaming himself for Lhikan's death and considering himself unworthy of being a hero. This led him to desert his team. And after he was convinced that he didn't belong with his fellow heroes, he was left very vulnerable to the suggestion that his true place was with the Visorak horde.

 

I think Greg handled things very elegantly. Of course, if the story team had gone with his plan and made Matau betray the rest, I'm sure he could have written it just as well — but I feel that it would not have been quite so impressive a feat as a writer to make a somewhat self-centered and volatile character even more self-centered and volatile. Vakama had to be utterly broken before he could be convinced to switch sides. He had to be convinced that his duty to Metru Nui was a lost cause, and that his destiny as a hero was a convenient lie, and that his unity with his teammates had been built on that lie.

 

In regards to the books and comics, you're right. I was thinking of the film, where he comes off as quite cocky in his first scenes.

 

You know I have been thinking about this a lot recently since my last post. I think the only Toa who could have turned WAS Vakama. I think there was a lot of reading between the lines in the Metru Nui are, esspecially WoS era. Vakama did act cockey yes. But its a very common thing for mor insecure people to act sometimes overly confident to mask their true feeling. Yes, they had defeated Makuta but I still dont think Vakama felt he was ready. I still strongly bveleive that Vakama would have turned eventually even without the Visorak venom. That was only a trigger. I think becuase if his feeling of inadequacy he felt inferior and almost craved to be stronger and better so he acted out in anger and betrayed his brothers(who I think his anger towards them was a reflection of his self hatred).

 

I also think that when he accepted Roodakas offer of Ta-Metru, it wasn't out of a power lust. I think his old Toa self still believed he could make a better place and he still cared about the Matoran greatly(remember, it was the thing that brought him round).

 

As for Matau, I always saw him as a mirror character to Vakama. I think both were as insecure as the other both for similar and entirely different reasons. They got on each others nerves and it seemed like they hated each others guts, but I think they had the strongest bond out of all the Toa. They were best friends, with out a doubt. Not in the same way that Vakama and Nokama were best friends(supportive and caring), but they both learned from each others mistakes and success. I honestly think that if Vakama would haveturned for good, it would have been Matau who would have taken charge of the Metru. He seemed to develop a lot as a Hordika and matured a great deal. I really wish they would have played more upon Matau accepting his responsibility in the movie, although I think one of his last lines where he basically said he would kill Vakama if he needed to, showed this too(yet I think also a darker side to Matau, similar to Vakama). He was willing to kill his best friend to save the Matoran which was his duty.

 

Sorry if it seems like a tangent, but its always how I interpreted the characters.

 

 

Actually, I watched WoS again yesterday (for nostalgia reasons), and none of the Hordika ever mentioned the thought of killing Vakama.

 

And in my opinion, Matau didn't suddenly mature so much that he would have been good enough to be their next leader. When they met Keetongu, he was quite extremely irritated to find that "We came all this way, just to find out WE DIDN'T HAVE TO COME ALL THIS WAY?!" As a Toa of Air, he's naturally playful and boisterous, although he is vain, which I think is uncommon, if not rare, as well as the fact that he flirts with Nokama at least once in LoMN. I think that Air Toa are generally too childlike to be leaders as they don't seem very serious at the best (or sometimes even the worst) of times, and Matau was peeved only because he was part beast (which ruined his good looks) in WoS. It would still have been a struggle to make him the traitor, because as we all know, the Toa of Air never act maliciously of their own free will.

 

When one of the Toa says something along the lines of "What if Vakama doesn't turn back?" Matau replies "leave that to me". I cant see many other ways of looking at that IMO. And the speech in the last fight was Matau maturing a great deal. If he had dealt with Vakama, I think it would have changed him tremendously. By the end of WoS he would have been ready to lead. All boys can be boisterous, playful and vain at times, and as we grow into men, we keep these traits(some more than others) yet we evolve by our surroundings and responsibilities. Thats what happened to Matau, I just dont think the flim portrayed it quite so well. Which is why I think the Metru Nui era should have been a trilogy, with Vakamas fall at the end of the second film and Matau maturing through all three.

 

When Matau said "leave that to me", I saw it the same way anyone thinking with the mentality of the Three Virtues would see it: that Matau would convince Vakama to turn back or die trying. Heck, he even fell from a tall structure to force Vakama to save him!

[Flex Lord Splash]

I really do wish there was a way to see what happens to Lewa with that tribe of strange Agori. Its a shame the serials will never be finsihed. I sort of wish someone would finish them for Greg or something idk, I'd like a happy ending, and a real one.