Rumor: Bionicle's return in 2015

[Irrie]

Cat translator here.  That cat was trying to say that it would prefer a continuation.  A reboot? the cat said 'poooooooo' to that.

 

Also, on the thought of masks.  In the real world, if you have, say, a Halloween mask, some go over your head, some only cover the face.  A matter of choice, really.  I'm surprised most Bionicle masks attach to the face.  By the way, it if attaches to the top, you have more room for a face underneath (am I the only one who thought it silly that the Toa's masks went in their mouths?

 

~W.12.~

I never thought that they were attached to their mouths in the story, but it had some sort of strap in the back that would fit around their head. 

I assume this because Pohatu can be quoted wondering if Kopaka's mask is on too tight. 

 

But it would be interesting to see some helmets, however I'd like a balance between those and the face masks. 

[Boidoh]

They magnetically attached to their faces...

[Irrie]

They magnetically attached to their faces...

Where did it say that? I must have missed it. 

[Jakura Nuva]

 

They magnetically attached to their faces...

 

Where did it say that? I must have missed it.

"Kanohi are magnetically attached to their wearers."

- Biosector01

[Irrie]

 

 

They magnetically attached to their faces...

Where did it say that? I must have missed it.

"Kanohi are magnetically attached to their wearers."

- Biosector01

 

Oh...right. 

Wow, I feel stupid. 

[Jakura Nuva]

 

 

 

They magnetically attached to their faces...

 

Where did it say that? I must have missed it.

"Kanohi are magnetically attached to their wearers."

- Biosector01

Oh...right. 

Wow, I feel stupid.

 

When in doubt, go to BIONICLEsector01.com

[Tremah]

Hello there! I've just asked Greg some random questions about Toa Nuva and EP, and he mentioned that Toa Nuva have already fulfilled their destiny. Maybe I'm taking these things too serious, but I think that it's another proof that we should wait for reboot of the series, not the continuation.

 

Or... maybe TLG will use the mask of decanonisation...

[Turaga Jack]

Hello there! I've just asked Greg some random questions about Toa Nuva and EP, and he mentioned that Toa Nuva have already fulfilled their destiny. Maybe I'm taking these things too serious, but I think that it's another proof that we should wait for reboot of the series, not the continuation.

 

Or... maybe TLG will use the mask of decanonisation...

Hmm... that could suggest something, but I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) Takanuva fulfilled his destiny when he "killed" The Makuta's original body but still had story importance until the end.

 

Plus a more recent example would be that Ninjago straight out broke the "fulfilled destiny" rule with Lloyd in Ninjago Rebooted. Now I know we're talking BIONICLE, but this suggests LEGO doesn't care too much about that in continuation of its lines.

Edited August 19, 2014 by JTH Studios

[NorikSigma]

Well Takanuva has not yet fulfilled his destiny. Greg confirmed as much.

 

Additionally, the Toa Nuva are still very much busy(hunting murderers, settling disputes etc.) so I don't see why a reboot is needed to get them back into the story.

 

Also, maybe for once we could have a different set of heroes. Either way, I don't see the need for a reboot.

[Spectral_Rain]

am i allowed to post this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgY9S2mGr4Y&list=WL&index=516

 

and is it fake or real

[Boidoh]

I got a migraine listening to that.

 

tldr Go to shop.lego.com for yourself.

[Nato G]

I almost forgot that bit about Takanuva's destiny. If it is a continuation, then I hope we finally get to find out what that destiny is. If it isn't, then Greg had better tell us what Takanuva's destiny was going to be, just for closure's sake. 

 

I have a feeling that if it's a reboot or retelling or something, they're going to cut an awful lot of characters, to avoid complicating things. 

[Boidoh]

His destiny was confirmed to have played a crucial role in a civil war between the Great Beings...

[Jakura Nuva]

His destiny was confirmed to have played a crucial role in a civil war between the Great Beings...

 

If Bionicle was to theoretically continue for another long run, this would be the finale of a lifetime.

[XJCLW]

Now, a topic I've noticed resurface several times over the course of this discussion is that the CCBS won't do Bionicle justice. I thought similar, at least at first, and while I still strongly advocate that aspects of the CCBS should be redesigned to be more reminiscent of Bionicle, below is a little something I threw together to show that it is entirely possible to make a decent Bionicle set using CCBS parts.

 

And another thing... I hadn't even heard of Omega Tahu before I started discussing in this topic, and the idea has absolutely fascinated me ever since. So, here is my tribute to the legend of Omega Tahu, made entirely using CCBS parts. 

 

 

 

Now, if I could hammer that out on my laptop in just a couple of hours, I think it's safe to assume that Lego has been fully able to design good Bionicle sets in the months that it's had to work on this. Rest easy, my friends, Bionicle 2015 shall be brilliant. 

Yeah well this was my first time using LDD for anything other than ordering wacky parts, so I didn't know how to use it at all. So if I could learn to make basic stuff in 10 mins and throw this together in 15 it's safe to say that LEGO will pump something out that is GREAT, seeing as they've had a long time to design this stuff + there's still extra time.

 

[fishers64]

am i allowed to post this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgY9S2mGr4Y&list=WL&index=516

 

and is it fake or real

 http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/lang/NullPointerException.html

public class NullPointerException

extends RuntimeException

Thrown when an application attempts to use null in a case where an object is required. These include:

• Calling the instance method of a null object.
• Accessing or modifying the field of a null object.
• Taking the length of null as if it were an array.
• Accessing or modifying the slots of null as if it were an array.
• Throwing null as if it were a Throwable value.

Applications should throw instances of this class to indicate other illegal uses of the null object. NullPointerException objects may be constructed by the virtual machine as if suppression were disabled and/or the stack trace was not writable.

 

 

So basically what it means is that some "object" in Java (a program, piece of code) is pointing to a program or piece of code that doesn't exist, or to something that evaluates to something that doesn't exist (i.e. null). 

 

My guess is that they pulled down a piece of their server-side Java code in order to work on it, and that's what caused the errors. Or they could have decided to update the version of Java that their web server was running on - but I suspect the former, largely because of the relatively small amount of references (that's the long list) and the other crashes/problems going on. 

 

This, however, does not indicate that new content is being added for a Bionicle return. Looking at the source of the error, www.shop.lego.com/en-US/#shopxlink, reveals multiple .jsp files. That's what contains Java. However, their purpose appears to be merely functional, not content related. 

 

<a id="quick-view-product-851318" class="btn-quick-view btn-small white test-quick-view-product-851318" href="/en-US/catalog/quickView/quickViewProduct.jsp?productCode=851318">

This .jsp file opens a quick view for a product. Another indicates order status. To add content, you would expect to see alterations to CSS or HTML files, and possibly JavaScript, but not in .jsp files designed to perform a certain functional attribute. Server-side programming languages (such as Java, here) generally add content to a web server that is generated by users, not content for us to see. It's the stuff that adds your purchase to the web server so people on the other end can see it and send your order, that kind of thing. 

 

So the error is real, but it doesn't indicate a Bionicle return any more than my ability to use a wrench indicates my ability to paint. 

 

* * *

While I'm talking web design stuff, I should point out that web sites are, for the most part, transparent. That means that everything on Lego's web server currently is accessible to us as long as we know the file pathway to get to it. Also, there is no way that having Bionicle pages in the recesses would cause errors unless current files that we can see (like that error with the "Coming Soon! page) point to them. (Such errors would take the form of broken HTML links that would point to Bionicle content, not server fails.) 

 

Given Lego's penchant for security, however, I think any Bionicle webpages are not on their web server currently. At least, not where anyone can easily find them. So people can stop interpreting every little error as evidence of a Bionicle return.

[Nato G]

 

am i allowed to post this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgY9S2mGr4Y&list=WL&index=516

 

and is it fake or real

 http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/lang/NullPointerException.html

public class NullPointerException

extends RuntimeException

Thrown when an application attempts to use null in a case where an object is required. These include:

• Calling the instance method of a null object.
• Accessing or modifying the field of a null object.
• Taking the length of null as if it were an array.
• Accessing or modifying the slots of null as if it were an array.
• Throwing null as if it were a Throwable value.

Applications should throw instances of this class to indicate other illegal uses of the null object. NullPointerException objects may be constructed by the virtual machine as if suppression were disabled and/or the stack trace was not writable.

 

 

So basically what it means is that some "object" in Java (a program, piece of code) is pointing to a program or piece of code that doesn't exist, or to something that evaluates to something that doesn't exist (i.e. null). 

 

My guess is that they pulled down a piece of their server-side Java code in order to work on it, and that's what caused the errors. Or they could have decided to update the version of Java that their web server was running on - but I suspect the former, largely because of the relatively small amount of references (that's the long list) and the other crashes/problems going on. 

 

This, however, does not indicate that new content is being added for a Bionicle return. Looking at the source of the error, www.shop.lego.com/en-US/#shopxlink, reveals multiple .jsp files. That's what contains Java. However, their purpose appears to be merely functional, not content related. 

 

<a id="quick-view-product-851318" class="btn-quick-view btn-small white test-quick-view-product-851318" href="/en-US/catalog/quickView/quickViewProduct.jsp?productCode=851318">

This .jsp file opens a quick view for a product. Another indicates order status. To add content, you would expect to see alterations to CSS or HTML files, and possibly JavaScript, but not in .jsp files designed to perform a certain functional attribute. Server-side programming languages (such as Java, here) generally add content to a web server that is generated by users, not content for us to see. It's the stuff that adds your purchase to the web server so people on the other end can see it and send your order, that kind of thing. 

 

So the error is real, but it doesn't indicate a Bionicle return any more than my ability to use a wrench indicates my ability to paint. 

 

* * *

While I'm talking web design stuff, I should point out that web sites are, for the most part, transparent. That means that everything on Lego's web server currently is accessible to us as long as we know the file pathway to get to it. Also, there is no way that having Bionicle pages in the recesses would cause errors unless current files that we can see (like that error with the "Coming Soon! page) point to them. (Such errors would take the form of broken HTML links that would point to Bionicle content, not server fails.) 

 

Given Lego's penchant for security, however, I think any Bionicle webpages are not on their web server currently. At least, not where anyone can easily find them. So people can stop interpreting every little error as evidence of a Bionicle return.

 

 

I didn't understand most of what you just said, but you seem to know what you're talking about, so I'm going to just take your word for it.

[fishers64]

The short, non-rambly version: wrong web programming language for the error shown to have any meaning. 

[Nato G]

Okay. That makes sense to me. 

 

Thanks for clarifying.

______________________

 

I think we should all stop jumping at shadows, and wait until we get some kind of official confirmation from Lego.

 

I just hope that happens soon.

[toa kopaka4372]

Well, I can tell some of us are getting kind of desperate and searching everywhere for some kind of hint/update/info about BIONICLE's return. I'm getting a bit impatient myself, it's been a while since we had any new tangible piece of information...

[Irrie]

I don't think that Lego will really care if the Toa Matas' destiny was achieved. They're popular characters, so it would make sense from a marketing perspective to keep them running.

Of course, I think that Lego is probably going to overlook the fact that Lewa is missing, but whatever. 

[Nato G]

They'll probably retcon the unfinished serials, that way they avoid having to explain how the Toa Mata got back together when one had been kidnapped by jungle Agori, and two of the others were trapped on the Red Star with Mavrah, of all people, and a bunch of insane undead guys. 

 

Hopefully Greg wraps that up for us with some kind of explanation as to what happened in between.

 

_____________________________

 

I had a terrible thought earlier today, and I fell the need to share it, so you can all assure me that I'm wrong about this. Greg keeps insisting that any decisions regarding Bionicle's future would be up to "a future story team", and that there is nothing he can say regarding this topic. What if the reason he claims he doesn't know anything is because he legitimately doesn't know anything?

 

What if Lego, in their infinite (lack of) wisdom, has assembled a new story team WITHOUT GREG?

[Irrie]

They'll probably retcon the unfinished serials, that way they avoid having to explain how the Toa Mata got back together when one had been kidnapped by jungle Agori, and two of the others were trapped on the Red Star with Mavrah, of all people, and a bunch of insane undead guys. 

 

Hopefully Greg wraps that up for us with some kind of explanation as to what happened in between.

 

_____________________________

 

I had a terrible thought earlier today, and I fell the need to share it, so you can all assure me that I'm wrong about this. Greg keeps insisting that any decisions regarding Bionicle's future would be up to "a future story team", and that there is nothing he can say regarding this topic. What if the reason he claims he doesn't know anything is because he legitimately doesn't know anything?

 

What if Lego, in their infinite (lack of) wisdom, has assembled a new story team WITHOUT GREG?

If they choose a guy who isn't at least as good as he was, I'm going to be mad. Like, REAL mad. REAL REAL mad. 

[Willess12]

I just had a thought regarding leaked/possibly leaked info.  Would it possibly be possible to discuss them, but use spoilers or white-on-white text, like I did a few posts ago?  You know, like this: Omega Tahu

 

Or would that still be against the rules?  And has that ever been brought up before? 

. 

[Aanchir]

I had a terrible thought earlier today, and I fell the need to share it, so you can all assure me that I'm wrong about this. Greg keeps insisting that any decisions regarding Bionicle's future would be up to "a future story team", and that there is nothing he can say regarding this topic. What if the reason he claims he doesn't know anything is because he legitimately doesn't know anything?

 

What if Lego, in their infinite (lack of) wisdom, has assembled a new story team WITHOUT GREG?

I don't think that would be totally tragic. After all, Greg didn't play anywhere near as great a role in the early years of BIONICLE as he did in many of the later years, yet they still turned out great. He was just one member of the story team, albeit the most visible member of it since he got author credit on the books and comics he produced and was in direct conversation with fans. A lot of the big ideas that made BIONICLE so compelling came from other members of the story team like Christian Faber.

 

Looking at how well Ninjago has done even without Greg Farshtey on the story team (and how good Greg's Ninjago, Hero Factory, and Legends of Chima stories have been even without him being a part of the story team for any of those themes), I don't see why he'd need to be on the story team to ensure quality storytelling.

[fishers64]

Why would they not include Greg? Not only has he worked on Bionicle before, he's still writing for Lego. There's no reason why he wouldn't be included. (Besides, as Aanchir points out he could still write the books even if he wasn't on the team. He wouldn't be out of the loop as much as not making the decisions anymore.)

 

And white text or not, discussing leaks is still against the rules as far as I know. I don't see such an exception in the leaked content policy.

Edited August 20, 2014 by fishers64

[Aanchir]

Why would they not include Greg? Not only has he worked on Bionicle before, he's still writing for Lego. There's no reason why he wouldn't be included. (Besides, as Aanchir points out he could still write the books even if he wasn't on the team. He wouldn't be out of the loop as much as not making the decisions anymore.)

Well, in part, because he's busy. Making him a full member of the BIONICLE story team might mean taking him away from other projects he's involved in, like the LEGO Club Magazine, the LEGO Ninjago graphic novels, the LEGO Legends of Chima storybooks and activity books, etc.

 

Additionally, whether he's even needed on the BIONICLE story team could depend on whether the books and comics are still the theme's core media. Chances are if the books and comics for Hero Factory and Ninjago were the theme's core media, he'd have been on the short list for those themes' story teams, since that's his area of expertise: writing books and comics. But instead, the core media for those themes are their respective TV series, and Greg has never in his life been a screenwriter. So the screenwriters for each theme's TV episodes are included on the story team instead.

[Irrie]

 

Why would they not include Greg? Not only has he worked on Bionicle before, he's still writing for Lego. There's no reason why he wouldn't be included. (Besides, as Aanchir points out he could still write the books even if he wasn't on the team. He wouldn't be out of the loop as much as not making the decisions anymore.)

Well, in part, because he's busy. Making him a full member of the BIONICLE story team might mean taking him away from other projects he's involved in, like the LEGO Club Magazine, the LEGO Ninjago graphic novels, the LEGO Legends of Chima storybooks and activity books, etc.

 

Additionally, whether he's even needed on the BIONICLE story team could depend on whether the books and comics are still the theme's core media. Chances are if the books and comics for Hero Factory and Ninjago were the theme's core media, he'd have been on the short list for those themes' story teams, since that's his area of expertise: writing books and comics. But instead, the core media for those themes are their respective TV series, and Greg has never in his life been a screenwriter. So the screenwriters for each theme's TV episodes are included on the story team instead.

 

If Greg is too busy to do Bionicle, then I have no quarrel with that. But if he's not, I would really like it if he did because he is one of Bionicle's biggest cultural icons. 

 

However, its not up to the fans to decide what he does with his life. 

Edited August 20, 2014 by The Irrational Rock

[Sir Kohran]

 

I had a terrible thought earlier today, and I fell the need to share it, so you can all assure me that I'm wrong about this. Greg keeps insisting that any decisions regarding Bionicle's future would be up to "a future story team", and that there is nothing he can say regarding this topic. What if the reason he claims he doesn't know anything is because he legitimately doesn't know anything?

 

What if Lego, in their infinite (lack of) wisdom, has assembled a new story team WITHOUT GREG?

I don't think that would be totally tragic. After all, Greg didn't play anywhere near as great a role in the early years of BIONICLE as he did in many of the later years, yet they still turned out great. He was just one member of the story team, albeit the most visible member of it since he got author credit on the books and comics he produced and was in direct conversation with fans. A lot of the big ideas that made BIONICLE so compelling came from other members of the story team like Christian Faber.

 

Looking at how well Ninjago has done even without Greg Farshtey on the story team (and how good Greg's Ninjago, Hero Factory, and Legends of Chima stories have been even without him being a part of the story team for any of those themes), I don't see why he'd need to be on the story team to ensure quality storytelling.

 

Let's also remember that he wasn't involved in the MNOLG or the movies, both of which played a big role in many of Bionicle's successful years.

[Turaga Jack]

 

 

I had a terrible thought earlier today, and I fell the need to share it, so you can all assure me that I'm wrong about this. Greg keeps insisting that any decisions regarding Bionicle's future would be up to "a future story team", and that there is nothing he can say regarding this topic. What if the reason he claims he doesn't know anything is because he legitimately doesn't know anything?

 

What if Lego, in their infinite (lack of) wisdom, has assembled a new story team WITHOUT GREG?

I don't think that would be totally tragic. After all, Greg didn't play anywhere near as great a role in the early years of BIONICLE as he did in many of the later years, yet they still turned out great. He was just one member of the story team, albeit the most visible member of it since he got author credit on the books and comics he produced and was in direct conversation with fans. A lot of the big ideas that made BIONICLE so compelling came from other members of the story team like Christian Faber.

 

Looking at how well Ninjago has done even without Greg Farshtey on the story team (and how good Greg's Ninjago, Hero Factory, and Legends of Chima stories have been even without him being a part of the story team for any of those themes), I don't see why he'd need to be on the story team to ensure quality storytelling.

 

Let's also remember that he wasn't involved in the MNOLG or the movies, both of which played a big role in many of Bionicle's successful years.

 

I seem to recall seeing his name in the credits for something... could be wrong though

[Jakura Nuva]

 

 

 

I had a terrible thought earlier today, and I fell the need to share it, so you can all assure me that I'm wrong about this. Greg keeps insisting that any decisions regarding Bionicle's future would be up to "a future story team", and that there is nothing he can say regarding this topic. What if the reason he claims he doesn't know anything is because he legitimately doesn't know anything?

 

What if Lego, in their infinite (lack of) wisdom, has assembled a new story team WITHOUT GREG?

 

I don't think that would be totally tragic. After all, Greg didn't play anywhere near as great a role in the early years of BIONICLE as he did in many of the later years, yet they still turned out great. He was just one member of the story team, albeit the most visible member of it since he got author credit on the books and comics he produced and was in direct conversation with fans. A lot of the big ideas that made BIONICLE so compelling came from other members of the story team like Christian Faber.

Looking at how well Ninjago has done even without Greg Farshtey on the story team (and how good Greg's Ninjago, Hero Factory, and Legends of Chima stories have been even without him being a part of the story team for any of those themes), I don't see why he'd need to be on the story team to ensure quality storytelling.

Let's also remember that he wasn't involved in the MNOLG or the movies, both of which played a big role in many of Bionicle's successful years.

I seem to recall seeing his name in the credits for something... could be wrong though

 

 

 

I had a terrible thought earlier today, and I fell the need to share it, so you can all assure me that I'm wrong about this. Greg keeps insisting that any decisions regarding Bionicle's future would be up to "a future story team", and that there is nothing he can say regarding this topic. What if the reason he claims he doesn't know anything is because he legitimately doesn't know anything?

 

What if Lego, in their infinite (lack of) wisdom, has assembled a new story team WITHOUT GREG?

 

I don't think that would be totally tragic. After all, Greg didn't play anywhere near as great a role in the early years of BIONICLE as he did in many of the later years, yet they still turned out great. He was just one member of the story team, albeit the most visible member of it since he got author credit on the books and comics he produced and was in direct conversation with fans. A lot of the big ideas that made BIONICLE so compelling came from other members of the story team like Christian Faber.

Looking at how well Ninjago has done even without Greg Farshtey on the story team (and how good Greg's Ninjago, Hero Factory, and Legends of Chima stories have been even without him being a part of the story team for any of those themes), I don't see why he'd need to be on the story team to ensure quality storytelling.

Let's also remember that he wasn't involved in the MNOLG or the movies, both of which played a big role in many of Bionicle's successful years.

I seem to recall seeing his name in the credits for something... could be wrong though

They used his name in the joke Matoran Alphabet credits at the end. I think he was credited as "Matoran Translator" Edited August 20, 2014 by Jakura Nuva

[Boidoh]

The comics were great and felt very BIONICLE.

 

The books by Hapka felt very odd. I was reading them and it just didn't feel interesting, it didn't feel like Greg.

 

We NEED Greg.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Boidoh

[Aanchir]

The comics were great and felt very BIONICLE.

 

The books by Hapka felt very odd. I was reading them and it just didn't feel interesting, it didn't feel like Greg.

 

We NEED Greg.

I agree to an extent, inasmuch as I didn't like Hapka's books too much either. At the same time, it's a little bit ridiculous to assume that because one writer couldn't capture the magic of BIONICLE to the same extent Greg did, no other writer can do so.

 

And again, Greg can still write comics and books for the theme without being a member of the story team, the same way he does for Hero Factory, Ninjago, and Legends of Chima.

[Irrie]

 

The comics were great and felt very BIONICLE.

 

The books by Hapka felt very odd. I was reading them and it just didn't feel interesting, it didn't feel like Greg.

 

We NEED Greg.

I agree to an extent, inasmuch as I didn't like Hapka's books too much either. At the same time, it's a little bit ridiculous to assume that because one writer couldn't capture the magic of BIONICLE to the same extent Greg did, no other writer can do so.

 

And again, Greg can still write comics and books for the theme without being a member of the story team, the same way he does for Hero Factory, Ninjago, and Legends of Chima.

 

Yes, but there are plenty of people like me that don't rely on the comics for the story. 

I don't like Hero Factory's storyline as much as I do Bionicle's, and Uncle G wasn't on HF's story crew. I don't know if Greg is generally a better storywriter than most people, or if it was because I am just used to his style. If its the first reason, then I think that we need him back. 

[Boidoh]

I felt like the comics never really told the story well and were just there for no reason.

 

I read all the 2006 comics and it was no where as good as the books.

 

If you only went off of the comics, you would never understand the full story of the year.

[Irrie]

I felt like the comics never really told the story well and were just there for no reason.

 

I read all the 2006 comics and it was no where as good as the books.

 

If you only went off of the comics, you would never understand the full story of the year.

I found the comics kind of random, since there were events happening without very much explanation leading up to them. 

[Boidoh]

If you never read the books you would have no idea what 2006 was about... Same goes for 2007. 

[Irrie]

If you never read the books you would have no idea what 2006 was about... Same goes for 2007. 

That applies to most of the years, actually. 

[Jakura Nuva]

 

I felt like the comics never really told the story well and were just there for no reason.

 

I read all the 2006 comics and it was no where as good as the books.

 

If you only went off of the comics, you would never understand the full story of the year.

 

I found the comics kind of random, since there were events happening without very much explanation leading up to them.

If you ask me, the main priority of the comics wasn't to tell the entire story, but to give kids a brief look at what was going on; that way, they had a slight idea of what to do when they bought the sets

[Sir Kohran]

The books by Hapka felt very odd. I was reading them and it just didn't feel interesting, it didn't feel like Greg.

 

Funnily enough, several parts of Hapka's books cover sections of the comics and so directly use Greg's writing.

 

 

 

I read all the 2006 comics and it was no where as good as the books.

 

If you only went off of the comics, you would never understand the full story of the year.

 

The books were the dominant story media by then and the comics just a sort of illustrated advert.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Sir Kohran