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A new generation

velika

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#1 Offline WhereFMF

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Posted May 09 2014 - 02:49 PM

The Kingdom states:

 

His destiny achieved, Takanuva had sacrificed his power to bring a new generation of Toa into being. These included Toa Kapura, Toa Balta, Toa Dalu, Toa Velika, Toa Defilak, and a new Toa of Light, Tanma.

 

Let's set aside Kapura and Balta both being Ta-Matoran and Tanma not wearing the Mask of Light. How the heck is Velika suddenly a Toa?

 

If you're going to tell me he's not a Great Being in this universe, then I'll tell you that then none of the events of that universe should have happened, because Velika was the reason for the Matoran Universe's inhabitants achieving sentience.


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#2 Offline fishers64

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Posted May 09 2014 - 02:57 PM

Velika is a Great Being in that universe, as confirmed by Greg.
 

Was Velika in the Kingdom Alternate Universe also a Great Being?

 

Yes

 
As for whether he is responsible for Matoran sentience, that is unconfirmed.


Edited by fishers64, May 09 2014 - 03:05 PM.

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Posted May 09 2014 - 03:04 PM

Actually, Velika went in to observe. The sentience thing was a glitch in their programming. Velika just wanted to see what would happen with their creation. He had no hand in the MU inhabitants developing such a high level of sentience.

 

That aside, yes. As the Fish pointed out, Velika was indeed the GB in the Kingdom Universe.

 

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#4 Offline Yaldabaoth

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Posted May 09 2014 - 03:59 PM

Let's set aside Kapura and Balta both being Ta-Matoran and Tanma not wearing the Mask of Light.

 

There's no rule against having two Toa of Fire on a team -- after all, the Toa Mangai had four Toa of Ice -- though I can understand some of the tribes who weren't chosen being a little put off.

 

As for Tanma, the Avohkii isn't necessary to turn an Av-Matoran into a Toa of Light. Only Toa power is, and Takanuva had plenty of that to spare.


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#5 Online Pohatu: Master of Stone

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Posted May 09 2014 - 04:34 PM

I think in this universe, if Mata Nui was to somehow achieve his destiny, or at least someone controlling the robot was to reform Spherus Magna, Velika wouldn't go and try to destroy Axonn, Brutaka, Helryx, etc.


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#6 Offline Katuko

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Posted May 09 2014 - 04:53 PM

Was Velika even chosen to be a Great Being at the time The Kingdom was written? I am fairly certain he was not, and any comments we get about it later will naturally just have to work around his Toa-fication. He's transferred his consciousness into a Matoran body, though, there is no reason that body couldn't transform if needed. His mind would be unaffected, as it was when Karzahni tried to repair that Matoran form.
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#7 Offline TheSkeletonMan939

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Posted May 09 2014 - 05:07 PM

Was Velika even chosen to be a Great Being at the time The Kingdom was written?

 

I think Greg tends to make the story up as he goes along (thus creating conundrums like this).

 

What exactly is so ground-shattering about Velika now being a Toa? He went in as a GB Matoran, and simply turned into a GB Toa. He can still do his job.


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#8 Offline V-N

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Posted May 09 2014 - 06:14 PM

What exactly is so ground-shattering about Velika now being a Toa? He went in as a GB Matoran, and simply turned into a GB Toa. He can still do his job.


Exactly. Velika is one of the MU's creator. There's no reason why he couldn't hijack the system and make himself just as capable of turning into a Toa as any other Matoran. He can change shape and still be a Great Being.

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#9 Offline SilverCor

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Posted May 10 2014 - 04:01 AM

And we all know the amount of trouble Velika can cause in the form of a simple Matoran; imagine what he could do with Toa-level power. Heck, if he wanted, he could even use some of his Toa Power to create a few Toa minions. 


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#10 Offline Kopekemaster

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Posted May 10 2014 - 08:00 AM

You said set it aside, but I'll bring it up anyway:

 

 

Tanma not wearing the Mask of Light

There's no reason that there can't be multiple masks of light, as it is just a "Great Kanohi", not (as I would've thought a few months ago) a Legendary Kanohi.

BUT ALSO: Tanma doesn't need a MoL to be a Toa of Light; he's already an Av-Matoran.


Edited by Kopekemaster, May 10 2014 - 08:01 AM.

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#11 Offline fishers64

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Posted May 10 2014 - 03:07 PM

And we all know the amount of trouble Velika can cause in the form of a simple Matoran; imagine what he could do with Toa-level power. Heck, if he wanted, he could even use some of his Toa Power to create a few Toa minions. 

Yes, but this is the Kingdom, where Mata Nui's mission has failed. The trouble that he would cause (in theory) has no real point. 

 

I mean, since the planet wasn't reformed, it's only a matter of time before those pieces drift apart and crash into Solis Magna anyway, and no amount of Toa power will get him out of there. No point in fighting on a sinking ship.


Edited by fishers64, May 10 2014 - 03:09 PM.

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#12 Offline SilverCor

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Posted May 10 2014 - 03:42 PM

 

And we all know the amount of trouble Velika can cause in the form of a simple Matoran; imagine what he could do with Toa-level power. Heck, if he wanted, he could even use some of his Toa Power to create a few Toa minions. 

Yes, but this is the Kingdom, where Mata Nui's mission has failed. The trouble that he would cause (in theory) has no real point. 

 

I mean, since the planet wasn't reformed, it's only a matter of time before those pieces drift apart and crash into Solis Magna anyway, and no amount of Toa power will get him out of there. No point in fighting on a sinking ship.

 

Pardon, I must have been thinking of the core dimension at the time. Still, I find it hard to believe that Velika would be resigned to do nothing while Aqua Magna and the rest of SM flies into the sun, even if he saved only himself in the end.


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#13 Offline boston100

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Posted May 11 2014 - 12:42 PM

great beings could take any form so velika could be a toa if he wanted to right?


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#14 Offline JAG18

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Posted May 11 2014 - 01:22 PM

great beings could take any form so velika could be a toa if he wanted to right?

While, it's true that Velika became a Matoran by uploading his consciousness into a Matoran--a process I would assume he could use on any MU inhabitant--it's never been stated that Great Beings could take any form of their choosing.  Their not shape-shifters, after all.


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#15 Offline fishers64

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Posted May 11 2014 - 05:28 PM

 

great beings could take any form so velika could be a toa if he wanted to right?

While, it's true that Velika became a Matoran by uploading his consciousness into a Matoran--a process I would assume he could use on any MU inhabitant--it's never been stated that Great Beings could take any form of their choosing.  Their not shape-shifters, after all.

 

Yes, but they did invent the baterra and the Mahiki, so it's possible that they could shapeshift. (if they invented shapeshifting orbs, ie: the bonesiii version)

 

Still, as a Matoran it is unlikely that he would have access to shape-shifting abilities. 


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#16 Offline Yaldabaoth

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Posted May 11 2014 - 05:36 PM

I don't have any evidence for this, but I feel like shapeshifting would be riskier for organic life-forms like the GBs than their biomechanical or mechanical creations. So many things could go wrong.


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#17 Offline Katuko

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Posted May 12 2014 - 09:53 AM

I don't think he could shapeshift or anything in his Matoran form, but I find it likely that Velika would have been able to pick a Matoran body for himself that was already fitted with Toa energy. That, or he could induce the process later through his superior knowledge of the MU's systems, like how Teridax could manage to manipulate the island of Mata Nui to cause earthquakes etc. because he knew how those systems worked.
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#18 Offline bonesiii

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Posted May 12 2014 - 12:13 PM

I wasn't going to bother posting here, to let somebody else bring this up, but surprisingly I haven't seen it mentioned -- IMO, the answer to this is probably very simple. Velika likely chose a destined Matoran as the body to inhabit simply because it's good strategy to always have the option of transforming into a Toa if he finds himself in trouble. :)

 

This may imply he had access to a Toa Stone or some equivalent, maybe one laying around in his backpack, perhaps an object that doesn't look like it would be a Toa Stone, or maybe even a part of his armor. But it might have been lost in Karzahni, and he might have decided that wasn't a safe place to become a Toa (Greg has said that he doesn't believe that Velika intentionally got damaged and sent there).

 

And more interesting -- maybe he plans to transform into a Toa when (or before) he takes control of SM? (Or maaaaybe he already has? Not sure if we know he's still a Matoran, offhand...)

 

 

While I'm at it, might as well clarify two other things that were brought up here:

 

because Velika was the reason for the Matoran Universe's inhabitants achieving sentience.
He had no hand in the MU inhabitants developing such a high level of sentience.

Both of these statements make the mistake of "unwarranted certainty". What we know is that Greg expressed great interest in a theory somebody asked him about in the LEGO.com topic that Velika caused it (BTW, the term is sapience, not sentience, although a "high level of sentience" is a fair definition of sapience I suppose). He didn't say one way or the other, so at this point we should consider it a possibility, but definitely not confirmed.

 

(I suspect it's more likely Greg liked the idea of making it look like Velika caused it in a possible story that he probably won't ever have time to write. :P Well, continuing the serials. Anywho. Point being, I doubt he'd end up having Velika cause it because Velika was in there to observe and Greg also stated he didn't want to interfere with Mata Nui's mission, and activating full sapience might be too unpredictable for that. Plus it enabled the Makuta rebellion apparently, which Greg said Velika didn't like.)

 

There's no reason that there can't be multiple masks of light, as it is just a "Great Kanohi", not (as I would've thought a few months ago) a Legendary Kanohi.

BUT ALSO: Tanma doesn't need a MoL to be a Toa of Light; he's already an Av-Matoran.

Just to make sure everybody reading here knows this, the Avohkii transformed Takua because it had been charged up with Toa Energy; it's confirmed that Toa can charge up any object with TE (usually they use stones; making "Toa Stones", but they could use any object), from a limited, non-recharging amount they have. It had nothing to do with being a Mask of Light in any physics sense. Light was chosen as the power for the mask because that TE charge was intended for the destined Toa of Light, so it was symbolic (and it would be practical as a backup Light power if the Toa of Light's Elemental Energy ever ran low, plus the mental powers gave extra abilities).

 

In other words, there's absolutely no reason to expect any association between a Toa Tanma and another Mask of Light.

 

Also juuuuust to be clear, because of the phrasing of the last clause in this quote, the Mask of Light doesn't change people into Av-element beings either. All it does is act like any elemental mask when worn by a Toa, and previously was charged up like a Toa Stone (that TE is now depleted). (Plus, Artakha added a knowledge-downloading feature, but that wouldn't be a normal part of a Mask of Light either.) Takua became a Toa of Light only because he was an Av-Matoran, destined to be a Toa, and he got access to a source of Toa Energy (plus we think you have to actually make a choice to accept the responsibility, explaining why he didn't previously become a Toa when the TE from the six Toa Stones he collected hit him). We proooobably all knew that but hey, just in case. :P


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#19 Offline SarracenianKaijin

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Posted May 12 2014 - 05:51 PM

That's because Greg didn't plan this out at all and revealed Velika to be a Great Being at the last minute in a yet another retcon for a desperate attempt at getting more attention for the story.


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#20 Offline Yaldabaoth

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Posted May 12 2014 - 08:05 PM

Admittedly true. However, here in S&T, all we can do is try and make sense of retcons and "revelations" and how they fit into the main story. It's not always a fun task, but someone's got to do it! :P


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#21 Offline Takhamavahu

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Posted Jun 01 2014 - 01:18 AM

Velika was always a Great Being. When he put himself in the body of a Matoran, it functioned just like a real matoran's body, including the ability to become a Toa.


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#22 Offline Master Inika

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Posted Jun 05 2014 - 10:05 AM

Velika was always a Great Being. When he put himself in the body of a Matoran, it functioned just like a real matoran's body, including the ability to become a Toa.

Exactly, the misconception seems to be that he rebuilt his GB body to look like a Matoran, when in fact he really downloaded his consciousness into a Matoran body.


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