At what point does a Bionicle "die"?

[Tuuli]

This is a rather odd question of mine but I was wondering just when bionicles "die" like they do in the storyline, but I'm confused as to the point in which they reach death?

 

They couldn't possibly die from damage to that bodies because in multiple instances, notibly the Toa Mata disassembled in tier canisters and the piraka on bionicle heroes. So it couldn't possibly be due to damage to the body if they can just break themselves and put themselves back together. Can someone help me out?

[Constructelf]

In the case of the To a Mata, only their limbs had fallen off, so it was simply a matter of reattaching the mechanical parts and waiting for the muscle to grow back. Nothing important had fallen off.

 

Other than the obvious biomechanical differences (most notably a lack of blood), it seems that bionicle anatomy (at least the humanoids) have the same weak spots as humans. Cut off the head, cause enough damage to center mass, fall from a great enough height, or just punch them 100 000 times, and they die. From what we've seen, they appear to die when either their CPU (brain) or their essential mechanisms (internal organs) can't sustain their bodies.

[Razgriz]

When he is killed, of course.

[TERIDAX941]

It has been stated that it's *extremely* hard to kill a toa/inhabitant of MU because of their biomechanics, therefore making them sturdier and more durable than humans, but they still function around the same ways... a good blow, or a puncture to the chest, decapitation... shattering, disintegration, melting... the normal ways of dying will do it. But because of their armor (and with some, heat and frost resistance, and Reidak's adaption powers) it takes a bit more effort to kill them off. They can also die from old age it appears, (which either takes a very very very long time, or it could happen in a blink, if you're Voporak haha.

[bonesiii]

They couldn't possibly die from damage to that bodies because in multiple instances, notibly the Toa Mata disassembled in tier canisters and the piraka on bionicle heroes.

Sure they can. The Toa just didn't yet fall apart in a fatal way, plus they were in life-sustaining canisters. Plus, if one more arm had fallen off for any of them...

 

And Bionicle Heroes is non-canon. Though I don't recall offhand what you're referring to there or whether it's consistent with what's canonically possible. We know that in addition to what happened to the Toa, Bionicle characters can be rebuilt, like the 2003 Matoran. As long as they ensure all the vital parts remain connected to each other as they rebuild the rest.

 

Anyways, we know they can die of old age, but we don't know how old that is. And we just learned that the Red Star repairs old age damage, so it depends on if Takua (the oldest MU being) has died of old age, and if the Red Star's Sendback teleporter was still working at the time. If the RS Sendback stopped working early in history, then the math of it would demand that their lifespans are longer than 100,000 years (since he would then have to have died a second time and would be stuck on the RS). If it broke more than halfway along the 100,000+ years instead, then it's possible he's going to die soon of old age again, and did die once before, after around 50,000 years.

 

But it seems most likely that their lifespans are 100,000 years +, since we know the Agori/Glatorian's are.

[Kopekemaster]

From what I've seen (could be wrong), they don't die of old age or anything edit: i'm gonna defer to Bones on this, read his post above, just if they're killed. And that is in pretty much the same way that a human is killed, as others have said.

Also, if they have a heartlight, and it turns off, they're dead.

Edited May 21, 2014 by Kopekemaster

[Indigogeek]

I mean, the MU members are SUPPOSED to not die, with the red star's purpose being to revieve them? If the thing had not broken down, would the only way to kill someone be to completely destroy their body?

[fishers64]

I mean, the MU members are SUPPOSED to not die, with the red star's purpose being to revieve them? If the thing had not broken down, would the only way to kill someone be to completely destroy their body?

Yes, provided that they had not died and been revived before. Otherwise they would come back with their memories from the previous revival!

 

I'm definitely seeing why someone would want to break the RS sendback...

[Indigogeek]

Wait, when was it implied that someone could not come back twice? (At least, that's what I'm getting)

[bonesiii]

Wait, when was it implied that someone could not come back twice? (At least, that's what I'm getting)

What are you referring to here?

[Chro]

They couldn't possibly die from damage to that bodies because in multiple instances, notibly the Toa Mata disassembled in tier canisters and the piraka on bionicle heroes.

Rule of thumb: nothing in Heroes is canon

Though I don't recall offhand what you're referring to there or whether it's consistent with what's canonically possible.

Basically sight gags with the Piraka disassembling themselves by mistake

[fishers64]

 

Wait, when was it implied that someone could not come back twice? (At least, that's what I'm getting)

What are you referring to here?

 

I think he's referring to my post.

 

The answer is never. Matoran can come back an indefinite amount of times.

 

 

If the thing had not broken down, would the only way to kill someone be to completely destroy their body?

Yes, provided that they had not died and been revived before.

 

What I meant was, if the being in question had never died and been revived, and was disintegrated, they would be permanently dead.

 

However, if say Matoran X was killed by Matoran Y punching him too hard in the face, and was revived, and then the next day a Makuta comes along and disintegrates him, he would not be permanently dead. Instead, he would be revived. However, if a landslide happened in between his first death (the Matoran-punching death) and his second death (the disintegration death) he would not remember the landslide.

 

At least this is my understanding on the subject. I think the RS might have to have a piece of him in order to revive, but it could be a very small piece.

[bonesiii]

At least this is my understanding on the subject. I think the RS might have to have a piece of him in order to revive, but it could be a very small piece.

Combining two statements of Greg's, it MAY work like this:

 

1) The brain has to be (mostly) intact for the first revival (but not the later ones, etc.).

 

2) There has to be "something to work with" for second+ revivals.

 

So possibly disintegration may still make you unrevivable the second time. I'd have to review Greg's exact wording to be sure (or he might have to be asked to clarify). It's possible though that the revelation I called #1 there was meant as a partial retcon of #2. If so, this would mean Matoro never died (other than the 777 thing which didn't involve the RS) prior to his sacrifice with the Ignika. If he had, and #1 is all that matters, then he could have actually come back. (But not if #2 is still the case.)

 

His prior answers in the vein of #2 said it doesn't really matter what state the body's in. I've theorized that protodermis naturally stores a record of the current form of everybody (probably involved in ensuring the long lifespans with reparative molecular mechanisms), so even somebody being reduced to nothing but goup could possibly be revived, as long as they'd died before with brain intact.

 

I... thiiiiiiink....

Edited May 21, 2014 by bonesiii

[Tuuli]

I think damaged Toa can be rebuilt by a skilled turaga

[Katuko]

Combining two statements of Greg's, it MAY work like this:

 

1) The brain has to be (mostly) intact for the first revival (but not the later ones, etc.).

 

2) There has to be "something to work with" for second+ revivals.

 

So possibly disintegration may still make you unrevivable the second time.

I think #1 was just a further explanation of #2: You usually can't be revived after disintegration because the brain would be destroyed by it. Disintegration itself is just one way to achieve that. You could be revived if only your lower body was disintegrated.

 

It'd be reasonable to suggest that the Red Star needs something to lock onto to even confirm a death, or perhaps something to fuel the revival. Still, the teleportation itself would likely burn more energy than creating new matter anyways. Elemental Iron is a thing, after all, and Toa produce that naturally in their bodies.

 

Is the Red Star solar powered, perhaps? Takes in sunlight and cosmic dust, converts it to some other form of energy, then converts that energy to protodermic metal and organics like a giant 3D-printer?

Edited August 25, 2014 by Katuko

[Banana Gunz]

 

Combining two statements of Greg's, it MAY work like this:

 

1) The brain has to be (mostly) intact for the first revival (but not the later ones, etc.).

 

2) There has to be "something to work with" for second+ revivals.

 

So possibly disintegration may still make you unrevivable the second time.

I think #1 was just a further explanation of #2: You usually can't be revived after disintegration because the brain would be destroyed by it. Disintegration itself is just one way to achieve that. You could be revived if only your lower body was disintegrated.

 

It'd be reasonable to suggest that the Red Star needs something to lock onto to even confirm a death, or perhaps something to fuel the revival. Still, the teleportation itself would likely burn more energy than creating new matter anyways. Elemental Iron is a thing, after all, and Toa produce that naturally in their bodies.

 

Is the Red Star solar powered, perhaps? Takes in sunlight and cosmic dust, converts it to some other form of energy, then converts that energy to protodermic metal and organics like a giant 3D-printer?

 

 

The Red Star being solar powered is an interesting suggestion I haven't heard before. But I would think that all of the supplies to repair beings was already on board. What probably happened was, the Great Beings didn't expect the MU citizens to go sapient, start wars and killing each other, and so many were sent back that they ran out of materials and parts to repair them. But there's been no clarification from Greg about this (Or at least I don't think so).

[Reznas]

Well, we have to take into account that Bionicles are bio-mechanical machines:

 

1. Mechanical machines require energy to function. They also require an input where energy can be "plugged in," and an output where energy can be utilized. If any of those "input" or "outputs" were to be destroyed, how would energy reach vital mechanical parts of the Bionicle?

 

Also, while energy cannot be destroyed, it is converted to heat (which is also energy, but that's irrelevant) after being used. This is why batteries do not have infinite power. The same applies for a robot. Bionicles do not have infinite power, and while they can "recharge," so-to-speak, eventually they will run out of energy. Since one could assume that a sort of "motherboard" would centrally run a Bionicle's functions and processes, we could also assume that that very motherboard would eventually lose its electrical conductivity (meaning it would decay). If the electrical conductivity decreases, the capacity for energy storage would also decrease. This runs in correlation with the idea of old age. The older we get, the slower our functions and processes work. Our brain loses processing power (after years of cell loss), the heart beats slower (there isn't enough energy to keep it and every other vital active at the same rate of that of a youth), etc. 

 

Similarly, mechanical parts decay over time. Assuming the laws of thermodynamics apply in the Bionicle universe, the metals that would make up a robotic system would eventually degrade making movement less viable and functions less probable.

 

When Turaga Lhikan dies in MoL, his heartlight falters, and proceeds to go dead. In that sense, we can assume that vital mechanical parts, as well as biological parts, were badly damaged stopping energy flow throughout his body, and eventually causing his "motherboard" to go dead.

 

2. Biologically wise, very similar ideas coincide, especially the idea of decay. Biological organisms only have the energy to live for a set period of time. As vitals become frail, less and less energy is taken in, meaning processes function much slower. Take, for example, a computer. As parts get older, acquire dust, experience damaging conditions, they begin to lose power and conductivity and no longer function at the same speed they initially did. Biological organisms lose power and "conductivity" as they grow older and gradually slow down as well.

 

-Rez

[Ford]

I asked a similar question before on the Lego Message Boards. I would just go with physical stress on the body, as with humans.