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Annona in the Melding Alternate Universe

Annona Great Beings Vultraz Melding Alternate Universe

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19 replies to this topic

#1 Offline Makuta Miras

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Posted Jun 10 2014 - 02:23 PM

I'm starting work on a BIONICLE reboot-style saga focusing on the aftermath of the return of Vultraz to the main dimension, and I need a bit of help getting some facts straight about Annona and the Melding Universe in general. So here they are:

1. Does Annona exist in the Melding alternate universe?

2. Does Annona have telekinetic powers like Toa of Psionics, or are her psionic abilities limited to telepathy?

3. Do any Olmaks exist in the Melding Universe?

 

These questions (Especially the Olmak question) are basically what the whole plausibility of my saga hinges on, so these are slightly important. All thoughts are welcome! 

 

-Miras


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#2 Offline Yaldabaoth

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Posted Jun 10 2014 - 04:21 PM

Whoa, now that is a good point. I had never really considered that Annona would be in the Melding universe, but since its point of divergence was the Core War, it's only logical that she would exist there in the same capacity as in the core dimension.

 

As for her powers, well, they aren't really defined. She's certainly the most powerful telepath we've ever seen, but I highly doubt those are the limits of her power. When she first appeared before Sahmad, she chilled the room; after eating all the Skakdi's dreams, she developed an aura of intense heat that incinerated Telluris. Additionally, her underground realm is really weird, and distances there don't seem to make much sense. Sahmad and co. got yanked down through solid dirt and rock to a room that seemed very deep, but then they could see an opening up above and managed to run to it...? I suggest you reread Sahmad's Tale to try and get intimately acquainted with all the weird stuff Annona does. (Compounding the matter, it's entirely plausible that she has even more powers than demonstrated...)

 

And I've got no idea on the Olmaks. You would do best to go reread Brothers in Arms' final chapter, especially the GBs' dialogue about other worlds.

 

Of course, the most direct way to get an answer would be to make a LMB account and ask Greg himself over at the LMB topic. There's a link in the first post of the Official Greg Compendium topic. ;)


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#3 Offline Iron_Man5

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Posted Jun 10 2014 - 05:49 PM

About the Olmak, all things considered Arhakha created that mask, (or masks since there were two of them in the core universe) so if he existed in the Melding Universe, he probably made them along with the other masks.

 

I'm going with the idea that he does exist in that universe because Alternate Teridax wears the Mask of Shadows and Arhahka made that one, so unless the Great Beings decided to start making more masks, I'm betting that Artahka is there and that he made the Olmaks as well. :)


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#4 Offline maxim21

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Posted Jun 11 2014 - 12:11 AM

1. Does Annona exist in the Melding alternate universe?

As far as we know, probably. Given the GBs are still around in this reality, it seems unlikely he/she (was its gender ever clearly defined?) would go out of hiding, though.

2. Does Annona have telekinetic powers like Toa of Psionics, or are her psionic abilities limited to telepathy?

I think it has a pretty wide range, but once again not clearly defined.

3. Do any Olmaks exist in the Melding Universe?

I would think so. We also know for sure they have other ways to go to another dimension from this one.

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#5 Online Onarax

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Posted Jun 11 2014 - 06:44 AM

She probably does, seeing that the point of divergence was long after she first existed. Her psionic powers are pretty strong, especially with the dream-eating and the like, although we aren't given much information on what she can do (she can at least read the minds of Great Beings). And Olmaks probably exist where Great Beings are.


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#6 Offline Iron_Man5

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Posted Jun 11 2014 - 07:28 AM

 

1. Does Annona exist in the Melding alternate universe?

As far as we know, probably. Given the GBs are still around in this reality, it seems unlikely he/she (was its gender ever clearly defined?) would go out of hiding, though.

Annona was confirmed to be a 'she'. :)


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#7 Offline maxim21

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Posted Jun 11 2014 - 08:19 AM

1. Does Annona exist in the Melding alternate universe?

As far as we know, probably. Given the GBs are still around in this reality, it seems unlikely he/she (was its gender ever clearly defined?) would go out of hiding, though.

Annona was confirmed to be a 'she'. :)

Really? I remained on the quote of 2011 in which Greg said he sees Annona as female, but I don't think that would count as a clear confirmation. Is there a new quote I could have missed in the new OGD on the LEGO forums?

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#8 Offline Yaldabaoth

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Posted Jun 11 2014 - 10:04 AM

If Greg says he considers Annona female, she's female. I don't see why there's any dispute.


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#9 Offline maxim21

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Posted Jun 11 2014 - 12:04 PM

If Greg says he considers Annona female, she's female. I don't see why there's any dispute.

Because that's clearly phrased as an opinion, and not a fact. Phrasing matters, in my opinion. I think if Greg wanted to say it was effectively female, he would juste have said "it's a female", and wouldn't have used "I see Annona as". I might be nitpicking, but giving a gender to Annona would also imply it is part of species that reproduce biologically, and everything seem to indicate Annona is an unique entity.

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#10 Offline Yaldabaoth

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Posted Jun 11 2014 - 12:09 PM

 

If Greg says he considers Annona female, she's female. I don't see why there's any dispute.

Because that's clearly phrased as an opinion, and not a fact. Phrasing matters, in my opinion. I think if Greg wanted to say it was effectively female, he would juste have said "it's a female", and wouldn't have used "I see Annona as". I might be nitpicking, but giving a gender to Annona would also imply it is part of species that reproduce biologically, and everything seem to indicate Annona is an unique entity.

 

 

Well, gender =/= sex. I'm sure Annona has no physical female parts -- I don't even know if she has a physical form, besides her tentacles -- but she's identified as female, so we should respect that.

 

Especially considering that she can devour your unconscious mind, so best to use the right pronouns and avoid a painful and maddening death, y'know? :P


Edited by Yaldabaoth, Jun 11 2014 - 12:10 PM.

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#11 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jun 11 2014 - 12:20 PM

maxim, caution is admirable, but in this case, if the person in charge of the story says he "considers" something to be the case, that means it's currently canon. Greg might change his mind, but he could do that about almost anything really -- in such cases that would be a retcon. It is confirmation.

 

Probably the reason for the confusion is that Sahmad calls Annona a he. But that really is irrelevant because Sahmad didn't actually know. Remember opinions of characters can be wrong. Also, having gender is irrelevant to population numbers. If all humans were wiped out except one, that human would still have their gender.


Edited by bonesiii, Jun 11 2014 - 12:22 PM.

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#12 Offline maxim21

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Posted Jun 11 2014 - 12:24 PM

Well, I guess I'll ask Greg on LMB, it can't hurt to have a more clear statement.

I would prefer to be sure before changing that on the french wiki :P

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#13 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jun 11 2014 - 12:50 PM

Actually, it can. I generally advise against asking Greg to re-confirm things he's already confirmed. It's happened before and he has forgotten that he did (can you blame him? He said a LOT over the years), like with the metallic bones of SM beings (although in that case he did at least clarify that he wasn't denying it, just that he didn't remember it). Once confirmed is enough, and if he has forgotten, then you can create a mess by a "retcon due to forgetting." If there's a wiki out there that doesn't say she's female, I'd change it now.

However, in this case it probably won't hurt; I doubt Greg has forgotten that one. :shrugs:

Edited by bonesiii, Jun 11 2014 - 12:50 PM.

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#14 Offline maxim21

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Posted Jun 11 2014 - 01:23 PM

Sorry, I didn't see you posted before posting my own answer, bonesiii.

Even though, I would like to point out that Greg's exact statement is "I see Annona as female", which is equivalent to "I think Annona is female", and not "I consider Annona as female". And as far as I know, we don't use to go with what Greg think, but what Greg state. BS01 itself only state Annona as female only since a little more than a month, it used the neutral form before - which is also used all along Sahmad's Tale.

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#15 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jun 11 2014 - 01:29 PM

That would only be so if he clarified it by saying that it isn't a canon answer. When he was asked about the nature of the Great Beings, he added such a clarification, but said that he leans toward something like Glatorian but as "scientist kings." In that case, we know not to take it as a final answer because he clarifies it isn't. But if he doesn't do that, then he is giving you the canon answer. :) There's any number of valid ways for him to confirm something and that is one; he doesn't have to use the exact same wording every time (I imagine that would get rather boring :P). He didn't say he's leaning towards seeing her as female, he said he does. Make sense? :)

You can go ahead and ask, don't get me wrong. I'm just using this opportunity to remind people to be cautious with risking "forgetfulness retcons." It probably doesn't matter in this case -- just disagreeing with the idea that it can't hurt, 'cuz it sometimes can. :)


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#16 Offline Yaldabaoth

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Posted Jun 11 2014 - 02:37 PM

Sorry, I didn't see you posted before posting my own answer, bonesiii.

Even though, I would like to point out that Greg's exact statement is "I see Annona as female", which is equivalent to "I think Annona is female", and not "I consider Annona as female". And as far as I know, we don't use to go with what Greg think, but what Greg state. BS01 itself only state Annona as female only since a little more than a month, it used the neutral form before - which is also used all along Sahmad's Tale.

 

No, BS01's Annona page has used female pronouns ever since Greg confirmed it. What changed a month ago was that I deleted a Trivia note saying "Greg Farshtey considers Annona to be female", which I found to be redundant and unnecessary.

 

And Sahmad's Tale doesn't use the neutral form. Throughout the chapters in which Annona appears, Sahmad alternates between calling her an "it" and a "him".* Of course, since Sahmad is an unreliable narrator, that doesn't mean anything.

 

I don't know why you seem so against the idea of Annona being female. BIONICLE has a deficiency in female characters anyway, so what's the problem?

 

*And if anyone is going to claim that "he" is a gender-neutral pronoun, I have a serious bone to pick with them.


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#17 Offline Quisoves Pugnat

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Posted Jun 11 2014 - 03:40 PM

I don't know why you seem so against the idea of Annona being female. BIONICLE has a deficiency in female characters anyway, so what's the problem?

With all due respect, I think you're misconstruing the issue. As far as I can tell, Maxim never said that he was against the idea of Annona being female, simply that he found the idea of Greg's subjective-sounding statements being considered canon questionable. Am I missing something?


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#18 Offline Yaldabaoth

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Posted Jun 11 2014 - 04:00 PM

 

I don't know why you seem so against the idea of Annona being female. BIONICLE has a deficiency in female characters anyway, so what's the problem?

With all due respect, I think you're misconstruing the issue. As far as I can tell, Maxim never said that he was against the idea of Annona being female, simply that he found the idea of Greg's subjective-sounding statements being considered canon questionable. Am I missing something?

 

 

I guess you're right. I'm just anxious about this sort of issue, since I do not want to risk Annona being forgetfully declared to be male.


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DESCENDANT, starring Kraata-Kal
 
Older stories:
 
AN EVEN EXCHANGE, starring the Makuta of Stelt
 
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#19 Offline maxim21

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Posted Jun 12 2014 - 12:37 AM

I don't know why you seem so against the idea of Annona being female. BIONICLE has a deficiency in female characters anyway, so what's the problem?

With all due respect, I think you're misconstruing the issue. As far as I can tell, Maxim never said that he was against the idea of Annona being female, simply that he found the idea of Greg's subjective-sounding statements being considered canon questionable. Am I missing something?

That's exactly that.

And Sahmad's Tale doesn't use the neutral form. Throughout the chapters in which Annona appears, Sahmad alternates between calling her an "it" and a "him".* Of course, since Sahmad is an unreliable narrator, that doesn't mean anything.

The neutral form is the one that is mostly used. I found only one instance of Sahmad referring to Annona as "him". That seems more like an oversight from Greg.

No, BS01's Annona page has used female pronouns ever since Greg confirmed it.

I was wrong on that one, that's true. BS01 use "she" since almost one year. But that's not since Greg "confirmed" it, you changed it two years after his statement.

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Keep in mind that if Star Trek fans had, as a group, said, "No point in talking about this anymore, it's never going to come back," it never WOULD have come back.
-- Greg Farshtey

#20 Offline Yaldabaoth

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Posted Jun 12 2014 - 08:09 AM

 

No, BS01's Annona page has used female pronouns ever since Greg confirmed it.

I was wrong on that one, that's true. BS01 use "she" since almost one year. But that's not since Greg "confirmed" it, you changed it two years after his statement.

 

Oh, really? Hmm. Well, that wasn't me... last year was part of my extended hiatus from all things BIONICLE. I assumed it had been that way since the statement. But now we're getting into pedantics.

 

Update: Well, I guess I didn't need to make all that fuss, since we've got a clear-cut confirmation now.

 

 

 

I have a question about Annona.

What's its gender? Does it even have one specifically?

Female.


Edited by Yaldabaoth, Jun 12 2014 - 08:15 AM.

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New short story:
 
DESCENDANT, starring Kraata-Kal
 
Older stories:
 
AN EVEN EXCHANGE, starring the Makuta of Stelt
 
THE END OF THE BROTHERHOOD, starring Tobduk and Makuta Chirox




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