I prefer HF over BIONICLE. Here's why.

[ToaJaller77]

.............I JUST WENT THERE.

 

Lots of people don't like HF because "it replaced BIONICLE" or "It has a bad story"- but that's their opinion. Story-wise, BIONICLE has a good concept. But it's HUGE and confusing to try to follow, and to this day many plot holes remain unfilled. Sure, HF has it's share of Cliffhangers but that doesn't make it bad. I HAVE said bad things about IFB, but watching it again, I realize I may have over-reacted a little. The "Extended Commercial" thing actually consists of only two lines. But then again, LEGO expects you to create your own thing, so everyone has their own story. Some people just hate it because it's not BIONICLE. I don't actually have any IFB sets at the moment (because of personal reasons) but I most certainly plan on getting a majority of them. The sets are great (except for a few) because 1: the parts don't break and 2: Some designs are appealing. Speaking of parts, there are some great MOCS on the internet that couldn't have made without the HF building system. Ultrabuild is truly a great experience. BIONICLE on the other hand lost the durability of it's parts 2008-10, and necessary parts such as limb and hand parts would break easily making the parts useless. Plus, the sets got boring 2006-09 with the Inika build. Sure, pretty cool Vehicles and creature were made, but It got old.

 

I prefer HF over BIONICLE....

 

 

 

And i'm proud of it.

[NickonAquaMagna]

That's perfectly fine, but... I don't see how it's something to be "proud" of. I mean, they're all toys in the end.

 

I could say the same things about Bionicle that you've said about Hero Factory. "Oh, sure, it may've gotten a bit too big and complex for its own good, but that doesn't make it BAD."

 

Bioncle just had more of a sense of genuine passion and the drive to tell an epic story than HF does. Most of the HF sets are swell, and I like it for the parts an' moccing an' all that, but the story? Puh-leeeeeese. It's just... it's underwhelming compared to other things. It's too tame and formulaic to be all that engaging for a lot of people. I'm not even talking about which line I prefer, since I like both, but .as far as stories in general go, Bionicle is all right, whereas Hero Factory is just kinda dull.

Edited June 11, 2014 by NickonAquaMagna

[fishers64]

Completely valid opinion dude.

 

I much prefer Bionicle over HF, but hey. I like epic storylines, and that weighs quite firmly in my choice. But not all beings like things equally well, so you've got a fair point. No need to knock on us, yeah?

[The Swimming Beard]

Since I care nothing for story, I also prefer HF, at least for the sets. However, as far as MOCs are concerned, I prefer Bionicle, as its pieces fit better with my mocing style (I still use HF pieces in mocs, though).

[Reznas]

I get the whole "Bionicle story is confusing part, because you had to have followed the story line from previous years to be up-to-date; but, that doesn't make it a bad story. It's actually a very good story, and while it may be complex, it definitely dwindles any other LEGO story line I've ever seen. As for plot holes, most of them are filled with post-Bionicle official stories. Not liking Bionicle because of a couple of plot holes, when you could easily read the stories that fill them, seems kind of presumptuous to me. And I'm not saying that you dislike Bionicle solely based on plot holes, but it doesn't seem like a valid point when so many other LEGO story lines have plot holes as well.

 

Also, while HF pieces may give you some new ways to build, I am utterly disappointed with the pieces that replace what Bionicle would have had as, say, 10 pieces. I always liked Bionicle sets, because when you bought a $10 set, you would get a bunch of pieces. Now, you buy a $10 HF set and get about half of the pieces Bionicle gave us.

 

Since when was liking HF over Bionicle something to take pride in? And likewise, since when was liking Bionicle over HF something to take pride in? It comes down to personal preference, and no one is going to dis you for preferring HF. But the message you're sending is that liking Bionicle over HF is too much of the norm and, quite frankly, kind of lame. IMO, either opinion is cool. I don't see why people make such a big deal out of it.

 

-Rez

Edited June 11, 2014 by Reznas

[Hexann]

Personally I regard Bionicle and Hero Factory as equals. Both have their ups and downs. Bionicles story is wonderful, epic, and engaging and it's also intricate and convoluted, and especially considering that it was developed over 9-10 years. Hero Factory's story is easy to hop on to at any point and also could practically be continued forever, but it lacks some engaging plot elements and is a bit inconsistent. I love them both though.

[Kopekemaster]

Story is what I like, so I go with Bionicle.

 

Also,

 

 

it's HUGE and confusing to try to follow

The primary storyline wasn't too confusing. (I mean the story that is expressed in the comics.) What really made it complex/confusing was if you read the books, or, even more, the serials. They added a lot.

But also, hey, we're living in the twenty-first century here. It is ridiculously easy to learn about things (in particular, practially all of the Bionicle story) online, for free, instantly.

You know, sorta like the forum you're posting on.

[NickonAquaMagna]

Just to clear something up, people...

 

At lot of people on the internet don't seem to know what a plot hole is, so they throw the term around at basically everything they don't understand.

 

When something is just left really vague or isn't explained that well, that's not a plot hole.

 

When you're presented with information, like a character stating something as a fact, only to later on see something that actively contradicts that earlier information, THEN a plot hole is created, because you KNOW that wasn't supposed to happen, yet for some reason, it did.

 

So... yeah. just felt like bringing that up, 'cause it really irks me how eagerly people say things are "filled" with plot holes when they're really not.

Edited June 11, 2014 by NickonAquaMagna

[Kopekemaster]

It can also be something that's never resolved.

[Cambion]

i think it's neat that someone out there has this opinion and can articulate themself so well about it (unlike the kind of thing you might hear on, say, certain official lego forums...). it's not an opinion i ever expected to hear on bzpower, definitely. props to you, OP.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Trans Girl Tamaru

[Reznas]

Just to clear something up, people...

 

At lot of people on the internet don't seem to know what a plot hole is, so they throw the term around at basically everything they don't understand.

 

When something is just left really vague or isn't explained that well, that's not a plot hole.

 

When you're presented with information, like a character stating something as a fact, only to later on see something that actively contradicts that earlier information, THEN a plot hole is created, because you KNOW that wasn't supposed to happen, yet for some reason, it did.

 

So... yeah. just felt like bringing that up, 'cause it really irks me how eagerly people say things are "filled" with plot holes when they're really not.

 

You're right, yet at the same time you're not. Both the way I used it and the way you used it are correct. I think before you rant about how you don't like us using "plot holes" if it's not to your liking, you should do a bit of research and see if the way I used it is valid or not.

 

-Rez

[Hexann]

Just to clear something up, people...

 

At lot of people on the internet don't seem to know what a plot hole is, so they throw the term around at basically everything they don't understand.

...

 

YES. I knew it wasn't just me! It seemed like a lot of people were throwing the words 'plot hole' around with out giving any thought as to what the actual definition is. It's been vexing me for a while now...

[Sybre]

As someone who's okay with HF's existence (for the time being, until I might get bored of it), I'm also fine with your opinion. While I'd pick BIONICLE over HF any day of the week, I can see what you're trying to say and I understand. Quality was always something that LEGO's founder looked for, and certain BIONICLE pieces have lost quality in its later years, with Hero Factory's pieces still strong today. However, I must point out the fact that you claimed the sets got boring in 06-09. Sure, I can't argue with you about that part, but Hero Factory has used its Ordeal of Fire building system for around the same amount of time that the Inika build was used. I know that this year is mixing things up with the mechs and all, and I have nothing against this year's line, but I found that some of the beasts are built similarly to Heroes from the past few lines.

 

Like others have said, I fail to see how this is a matter of pride. These are just toy line preferences; nothing more, nothing less. No need to get up in our faces about it. And you don't have to be like, "I just went there." We aren't gonna kill you for what you said.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Sykreos the Challenger

[Reznas]

 

Just to clear something up, people...

 

At lot of people on the internet don't seem to know what a plot hole is, so they throw the term around at basically everything they don't understand.

...

 

YES. I knew it wasn't just me! It seemed like a lot of people were throwing the words 'plot hole' around with out giving any thought as to what the actual definition is. It's been vexing me for a while now...

 

 

Do note that the idea of a plot hole is pretty ambiguous. There is no "actual" definition. Most people use the word to point out a part of a story that makes little or no sense without an explanation (i.e. the TV series "LOST" had so many plot holes. Later on, many of them were filled, and you finally understood what was going on). People also use it in the way Nickon described, where it refers to a point in a story which contradicts previous parts of the story. Both descriptions are correct, and I personally use "plot hole" in both ways.

 

-Rez

[fishers64]

Do note that the idea of a plot hole is pretty ambiguous. There is no "actual" definition. Most people use the word to point out a part of a story that makes little or no sense without an explanation (i.e. the TV series "LOST" had so many plot holes. Later on, many of them were filled, and you finally understood what was going on).

That's called a mystery. It becomes a plot hole when the author just wants you to accept the mystery as fact without an explanation. If the narrative makes it clear that an explanation may be forthcoming as the characters explore the world, learn stuff, etc, then it's not a plot hole. I would argue that LOST falls into that category, as does Bionicle. Edited June 11, 2014 by fishers64

[Reznas]

That's called a mystery. It becomes a plot hole when the author just wants you to accept the mystery as fact without an explanation. If the narrative makes in clear that an explanation may be forthcoming as the characters explore the world, learn stuff, etc, then it's not a plot hole. I would argue that LOST falls into that category, as does Bionicle.

 

With LOST, I feel as if things often happened sporadically, and you didn't expect an explanation. In the end, they gave one anyway. That's, at least, my opinion. I do agree in that light about Bionicle, however.

 

-Rez

 

EDIT: I forgot to mention that the bolded section is very true. But I would also say that before a point is actually explained, it's in plot hole limbo.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Reznas

[Aanchir]

I totally respect this opinion and am glad you had the courage to voice it, since it's often an unpopular one. But personally I think it's a bit unfair to say the BIONICLE story suffers more from more plot holes and unfinished questions. After all, the Hero Factory chapter books saw a whole story arc go unresolved. It's true that these are just supplementary side-stories, but so are BIONICLE's online serials, where most of its plot holes and unanswered questions lie.

 

Now, I agree that BIONICLE is confusing, and it's perfectly understandable if that hurts the experience for you. But at the same time, I tend to think of BIONICLE as a success in terms of storytelling. It set ambitious goals for itself, but for the most part, it met those goals. The "big story engine" was hinted at little by little for seven years before the big reveal. The theme's final year, while somewhat rushed, saw the theme's defining battle between the forces of Mata Nui and the forces of Makuta draw to a close. So while I definitely think the creators of Hero Factory learned from many of BIONICLE's mistakes, I have a hard time saying one story is better than the other. They're very different types of story that can't really be judged according to the same terms.

 

As for the sets and parts, I do prefer Hero Factory to BIONICLE. Proportions of figures tend to be better, the parts tend to be more intuitive and versatile when it comes to my own building, and fragility issues have largely been solved. Hero Factory had a rough start, with pitifully simplistic sets for their size and price, but the new building system in 2011 put it on the fast track to improvement and I'd say from 2012 onward its sets stack up favorably compared to similar-sized BIONICLE sets. This year's sets definitely seem to have stepped out of BIONICLE's long shadow, with the small, medium, and large sets all comparable or superior to similar-sized sets in terms of complexity, and far superior to 20012006 BIONICLE sets in terms of diversity. I can only hope the improvements in the building system will put the next constraction theme off to a great start!

[TheSkeletonMan939]

It can also be something that's never resolved.

 

No it can't.

 

My main issue with HF is that none of the characters are charismatic, intelligent, or appealing in any way, except maybe Stormer.

[Aanchir]

My main issue with HF is that none of the characters are charismatic, intelligent, or appealing in any way, except maybe Stormer.

I think Nex is fairly charismatic, though he's been absent from the sets and story for a couple years, sadly. My favorite character is probably Bulk on account of his internal conflict and his struggle to overcome it.

[Hexann]

I totally respect this opinion and am glad you had the courage to voice it, since it's often an unpopular one. But personally I think it's a bit unfair to say the BIONICLE story suffers more from more plot holes and unfinished questions. After all, the Hero Factory chapter books saw a whole story arc go unresolved. It's true that these are just supplementary side-stories, but so are BIONICLE's online serials, where most of its plot holes and unanswered questions lie.

This and I feel it should be considered that Bionicle is a story that has been worked on for a decade. In that span of time you can collect quite a few plot holes, unresolved conflicts ( not counting the ones that are part of the current story.) and etc. Hero Factory hasn't had a decade to develop its storyline.

[Reznas]

One thing I forgot to mention earlier might clear up some of what I said about plot holes. When I said Bionicle had plot holes that were filled, I was referring to plot holes in the mainstream story line that, by Bionicle's end in 2010, were still not resolved. Of course, the post-Bionicle stories filled in some of the gaps, and that's what I was referring to.

 

-Rez

Edited June 12, 2014 by Reznas

[Kopekemaster]

 

It can also be something that's never resolved.

 

No it can't.

 

My main issue with HF is that none of the characters are charismatic, intelligent, or appealing in any way, except maybe Stormer.

 

Why do you think not?

And I'm not meaning something that they purposefully left unresolved; I mean something they just totally blitzed.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

 

 

It can also be something that's never resolved.

 

No it can't.

 

Why do you think not?

And I'm not meaning something that they purposefully left unresolved; I mean something they just totally blitzed.

 

Oh, I see. Yeah, I count those "unresolved subplots" as plot holes, because if you're too stupid to remember what's going on in your movie, maybe you shouldn't be making them. (Skyfall, The Amazing Spider-Man, and Iron Man 3 are prime examples of this).

[Sumiki]

I think the sign of a really good and interesting line is that while it might be marketed towards a certain group, it can be enjoyed by anyone. This is why the current generation of My Little Pony has accrued so many fans - because it's a legitimately enjoyable TV show and thus a legitimately enjoyable franchise.

I don't really see this with Hero Factory, although to be fair, it's fundamentally different. Emphasis isn't really on story, it's in the building system, which allows for easier customization than BIONICLE ever did.

Personally, I've always been of the opinion that if you valued story, you'd prefer BIONICLE, whereas if you valued ease of playability, you'd prefer Hero Factory. I don't hate the HF story, it's just that when compared to BIONICLE, it's pretty weak, and when compared to other stories the only thing that BIONICLE had going for it was its sheer convolution.

[Kopekemaster]

 

Why do you think not?

And I'm not meaning something that they purposefully left unresolved; I mean something they just totally blitzed.

 

Oh, I see. Yeah, I count those "unresolved subplots" as plot holes, because if you're too stupid to remember what's going on in your movie, maybe you shouldn't be making them. (Skyfall, The Amazing Spider-Man, and Iron Man 3 are prime examples of this).

 

XD Yup.

[Aanchir]

I think the sign of a really good and interesting line is that while it might be marketed towards a certain group, it can be enjoyed by anyone. This is why the current generation of My Little Pony has accrued so many fans - because it's a legitimately enjoyable TV show and thus a legitimately enjoyable franchise.

 

I don't really see this with Hero Factory, although to be fair, it's fundamentally different. Emphasis isn't really on story, it's in the building system, which allows for easier customization than BIONICLE ever did.

 

Personally, I've always been of the opinion that if you valued story, you'd prefer BIONICLE, whereas if you valued ease of playability, you'd prefer Hero Factory. I don't hate the HF story, it's just that when compared to BIONICLE, it's pretty weak, and when compared to other stories the only thing that BIONICLE had going for it was its sheer convolution.

I think people will prefer BIONICLE if they prefer a particular TYPE of story: an epic, ongoing adventure that's heavy on continuity. In other words, the same sort of people who might like The Lord of the Rings or Star Wars.

 

However, there are definitely people who prefer something simpler and more episodic, like Star Trek: The Original Series or various superhero comics and cartoons. It's true that people like this might not necessarily like Hero Factory, which (at least in terms of the TV episodes) tends to be fairly lackluster and doesn't offer the same variety of stories that a full TV series might offer, but they might easily find it less overwhelmingly dense than BIONICLE. It's a bit unfair to say people like this don't value story. It's just a difference in the TYPE of story they prefer.

 

But in any case, you're right that Hero Factory's emphasis is much more on the sets and building system. I don't think you're likely to find anywhere near as many Hero Factory fans without an interest in the sets as there were with BIONICLE. No matter what you think of the quality of Hero Factory's story media, the simple truth is that there's not a whole lot of it, and as such, not much to draw people in if they aren't already interested in the sets and building system. Hero Factory has more in common with Knights' Kingdom than with BIONICLE or Ninjago in that regard.

Edited June 12, 2014 by Aanchir: Rachira of Time

[Lenny7092]

Hmm... Hard to say, but I can think of a couple things, and they are:

1. Story - I prefer Bionicle over Hero Factory because Bionicle's story has a lot more character development rather then being a toy commercial that promotes toys, which in case HF's story is like and still does nowadays.

2. Sets - I prefer HF over Bionicle because the Hero Factory sets have a lot of nice and more cool-looking pieces than the Bionicle ones.

[fishers64]

To the plot hole thing: Bionicle had some minor ones, yes. Aside from the unresolved serials, however, none are jumping readily to mind, perhaps because Bionicle was so detail-oriented that it tried to fill in every little gap, and perhaps because I've spent too long in S&T and are used to viewing them as spaces for speculation/theories rather than as flaws. But if you want to view it that way, we uncover more plot holes every day...

 

However, I'd like to posit that something counts as a plot hole only if it affects the integrity/enjoy-ability of the main story. IMO Bionicle didn't have that problem, since most of the gaps are tiny and easy to miss unless you are really nitpicky, and are fun to speculate on.

 

I find it odd, however, that we are accusing Bionicle of having plot holes since HF has plot holes big enough to run a tractor trailer through. (The mysterious villain at the end of Breakout and the beginning of Brain Attack, the end of IFB, etc.) Worse, there's no hint (unlike with Bionicle, which did hint) that these plot holes will ever be resolved.

 

I'm probably being blinded a bit by my preference here, though.

I think people will prefer BIONICLE if they prefer a particular TYPE of story: an epic, ongoing adventure that's heavy on continuity. In other words, the same sort of people who might like The Lord of the Rings or Star Wars.

However, there are definitely people who prefer something simpler and more episodic, like Star Trek: The Original Series or various superhero comics and cartoons. It's true that people like this might not necessarily like Hero Factory, which (at least in terms of the TV episodes) tends to be fairly lackluster and doesn't offer the same variety of stories that a full TV series might offer, but they might easily find it less overwhelmingly dense than BIONICLE. It's a bit unfair to say people like this don't value story. It's just a difference in the TYPE of story they prefer.

I don't think that is the only factor here. People can like both. I loathe using self-examples, but I prefer Star Trek to Star Wars, for reasons, so I don't think you can say that continuity is the source of all this preference schism. Another factor that jumps to mind whether sets or story is your primary focus when thinking about these toys (preference of sets over story, vs. preference of story over sets).

 

And there's half a zillion other factors, from mystery to characterization (I would argue that those are the big deals for me, far outweighing the continuity thing) to genre of the work, even the art style. I don't think we can generalize like this.

 

I agree with you, however, that we can't knock on people with different story preferences.