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Makuta returns?


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#1 Offline Toa Sialo

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Posted Jun 15 2014 - 09:43 AM

What if... Makuta Teridax is still "dormant" inside the mata nui robot? I know that the body is being used as building materials, but they can't destroy it all, right?
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#2 Offline Sumiki

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Posted Jun 15 2014 - 10:21 AM

A moon crushed his head. If he does come back I think he'd have a pretty large headache.


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#3 Online Toa Smoke Monster

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Posted Jun 15 2014 - 11:46 AM

All of Teridax's antidermis was incinerated when Aqua Magna ripped through the MU's head. There is no way he survived that. And Greg said himself that he is dead.


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#4 Offline Trans Girl Tamaru

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Posted Jun 15 2014 - 12:28 PM

All of Teridax's antidermis was incinerated when Aqua Magna ripped through the MU's head. There is no way he survived that. And Greg said himself that he is dead.

well...i wouldn't go on greg's word. we all know how much he loves bringing characters back from the dead. but yeah, it's kind of hard to argue with a chunk of planet through the head.


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#5 Online Iron_Man5

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Posted Jun 15 2014 - 01:20 PM

As much as I would love Makuta and his species to make a comeback, I think it was the intent of the author to kill him off for good. Unless he somehow pulled a Zaktan (avoid death scenario) ;)


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#6 Offline Collector1

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Posted Jun 15 2014 - 01:26 PM

I'm pretty sure that after the Bota Magna moon crashed into the Mata Nui robot's head there's no chance of Teridax ever returning. Plus, Greg seems to have all his focus on other antagonists, such as Velika.


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#7 Offline ChroXumo

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Posted Jun 15 2014 - 05:36 PM

Teridax is confirmed to be entirely dead.


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#8 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jun 15 2014 - 05:54 PM

All of Teridax's antidermis was incinerated when Aqua Magna ripped through the MU's head. There is no way he survived that. And Greg said himself that he is dead.

well...i wouldn't go on greg's word. we all know how much he loves bringing characters back from the dead. but yeah, it's kind of hard to argue with a chunk of planet through the head.

While it's always possible that Greg or LEGO itself could retcon it, there's really no more reliable way to know a character's dead than the authors confirming they're gone for good. He's not coming back. Greg does change his mind, but he doesn't lie; when he says he's gone, that is the current intent.

 

To the original question, the fragment of Aqua Magna destroyed the part that matters -- essentially the brain. If a human's brain is destroyed, the fact that a foot or a hand (or the entire rest of the body) is still there is irrelevant.

 

Of course, it's been proposed there could have been a backup system somewhere in the giant (it isn't a human, after all), but that's where Greg's confirmation that he'd totally dead comes in. :)


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#9 Offline Makuta_of_Oz

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Posted Jun 15 2014 - 06:22 PM

The only way Makuta is going to return is if the Alternate Teridax turned evil.


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#10 Offline LordofBionicles

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Posted Jun 15 2014 - 08:17 PM

There are two characters who are definately dead and can't be revived whatsoever: Matoro and Makuta Teridax.


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#11 Offline Toa Sialo

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Posted Jun 15 2014 - 10:26 PM

Ok... But kirika is sort of alive.
I mean, he's barely anything now, but he still can return.

Edited by Toa Sialo, Jun 15 2014 - 10:27 PM.

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#12 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jun 16 2014 - 01:51 AM

No, Greg confirmed Krika died. What you said was true for some unknown length of time, but at story present he is gone.
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#13 Offline Toa Sialo

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Posted Jun 16 2014 - 02:56 AM

Still, he is not 100% dead yet. More 97.9999999999999997899999599% dead
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#14 Offline Silverglass

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Posted Jun 16 2014 - 03:09 AM

Still, he is not 100% dead yet. More 97.9999999999999997899999599% dead

'Fraid Gorast, in her anger, used her Felnas (Mask of Disruption) to royally mess up Krika's power of intangibility, causing him to literally fade from existence. Even if some part of him remained, the energy storms in the core would have obliterated whatever was left. 


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#15 Offline Toa Sialo

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Posted Jun 16 2014 - 04:26 AM

Still, he is not 100% dead yet. More 97.9999999999999997899999599% dead


'Fraid Gorast, in her anger, used her Felnas (Mask of Disruption) to royally mess up Krika's power of intangibility, causing him to literally fade from existence. Even if some part of him remained, the energy storms in the core would have obliterated whatever was left.
Well, I believe that he became, more or less, a ghost. So, I thought, he should be able to escape the forces of the storm, as he has no mass now. And if he's energy, he can't be destroyed.

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#16 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jun 16 2014 - 06:15 AM

Again, that was temporarily the case, but as of story present, he's 100% dead. Think of it like water draining from a sink. The fact that for a while it won't be entirely drained doesn't mean that it won't reach a point where it IS entirely drained. And it can happen quite quickly. And Greg confirmed it happened already, so, that's that. Sorry. :P
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#17 Offline Toa Sialo

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Posted Jun 16 2014 - 09:39 AM

Herm. Well, Brutaka has antidermis in him, so he could create Makuta, right?
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#18 Offline Makuta Miras

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Posted Jun 16 2014 - 11:01 AM

I guess you could count Icarax as being alive, but in the sense of being an exploded-y mass of particles, then...

 

But still, the only way that I can see Teridax coming back would be if somehow someone recreated the Makuta from the Antidermis pool, and then Teridax's consciousness took one of those Makuta bodies. But again, he probably can't do a Palpatine. (If you've read some of the Star Wars books fairly soon after Episode VI, you'll get what I mean.)


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#19 Offline boston100

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Posted Jun 16 2014 - 02:56 PM

Herm. Well, Brutaka has antidermis in him, so he could create Makuta, right?

Isnt brutaka supposed to be a reformed character? however it might be cool if he tried to make a makuta to help people out and then the makuta escaped? thats just an idea though


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#20 Offline fishers64

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Posted Jun 16 2014 - 04:02 PM

 

Herm. Well, Brutaka has antidermis in him, so he could create Makuta, right?

Isnt brutaka supposed to be a reformed character? however it might be cool if he tried to make a makuta to help people out and then the makuta escaped? thats just an idea though

 

Why would Brutaka make a Makuta to "help people out"? Given what the last generation of Makuta did, I hardly suspect that would be a good idea. 

 

(It feels like HF: Makuta 2.0...)

 

Also I suspect Alt. Teridax is hardly going to be well received by the public at large, since while we know that Teridax is dead, they don't. 


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#21 Offline Collector1

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Posted Jun 16 2014 - 04:12 PM

 

 

Herm. Well, Brutaka has antidermis in him, so he could create Makuta, right?

Isnt brutaka supposed to be a reformed character? however it might be cool if he tried to make a makuta to help people out and then the makuta escaped? thats just an idea though

 

Why would Brutaka make a Makuta to "help people out"? Given what the last generation of Makuta did, I hardly suspect that would be a good idea. 

 

(It feels like HF: Makuta 2.0...)

 

Also I suspect Alt. Teridax is hardly going to be well received by the public at large, since while we know that Teridax is dead, they don't. 

 

Plus, why does Brutaka need to recreate the Makuta species when he has their powers, abilities, and knowledge? If he wanted to help people there would be no need to create a Makuta since he could do the things a Makuta could do.


Edited by Collector1, Jun 16 2014 - 06:45 PM.

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#22 Online Iron_Man5

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Posted Jun 16 2014 - 04:41 PM

Then there's Misterix. He could possibly figure out how to make more of his kind. Then convince them not to drain their inner light etc.


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#23 Offline fishers64

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Posted Jun 16 2014 - 05:58 PM

Then there's Misterix. He could possibly figure out how to make more of his kind. Then convince them not to drain their inner light etc.

Why would he convince them not to drain their inner light? That makes no sense either, seeing as he drained it himself. 


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#24 Online Iron_Man5

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Posted Jun 16 2014 - 10:22 PM

Because then he'd have an advantage over them, and they might be less inclined to rebel if they had some good still in them. *shrug* just a theory. He drained his own light so that his brothers wouldn't have an advantage over him in combat.


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#25 Offline Collector1

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Posted Jun 16 2014 - 10:30 PM

Because then he'd have an advantage over them, and they might be less inclined to rebel if they had some good still in them. *shrug* just a theory. He drained his own light so that his brothers wouldn't have an advantage over him in combat.

I think Misterix could recreate his own species, but they would become a slave species to him and the rulers of Spherus Magna. 


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#26 Offline fishers64

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Posted Jun 16 2014 - 11:01 PM

Because then he'd have an advantage over them, and they might be less inclined to rebel if they had some good still in them. *shrug* just a theory. He drained his own light so that his brothers wouldn't have an advantage over him in combat.

Yes, but if he created like five of them or something, and they were good, they would object to their evil ruler and wipe him out. 

 

Miserix hardly sounds like a fine strategist, but I don't think even he would be that stupid. Five good Makuta vs. one evil Makuta = one dead Makuta, unless the evil Makuta happens to have a giant robot. 


Edited by fishers64, Jun 16 2014 - 11:10 PM.

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#27 Offline Toa Sialo

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Posted Jun 16 2014 - 11:26 PM

Then there's Misterix. He could possibly figure out how to make more of his kind. Then convince them not to drain their inner light etc.


This is actualy a really good idea. I like it.
Misterix could recreate the species and rule them as it was in the melding universe. That would be awesome.

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#28 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jun 17 2014 - 12:25 AM

Because then he'd have an advantage over them, and they might be less inclined to rebel if they had some good still in them. *shrug* just a theory. He drained his own light so that his brothers wouldn't have an advantage over him in combat.

Then wouldn't they realize that he has an advantage and fail to be convinced?

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#29 Offline Toa Sialo

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Posted Jun 17 2014 - 03:55 AM

Meh. They would believe anything at the begining.
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#30 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jun 17 2014 - 04:41 AM

Meh. They would believe anything at the begining.

I mean later... the point is, wouldn't Miserix realize the risk to himself is too great?


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#31 Offline ChroXumo

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Posted Jun 17 2014 - 05:43 AM

He probably would. As fishers said... not the smartest of Makuta, but likely not dumb enough to think that'd work. :P

Edited by ChroXumo, Jun 17 2014 - 05:44 AM.

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#32 Offline WhereFMF

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Posted Jun 17 2014 - 10:20 AM

A short story was recently posted to this forum that suggested an interesting possibility. Since Tahu incinerated Teridax's Rahkshi with the Golden Armour, it's possible that some of Teridax's spirit lives on through him. So he could become a new Makuta.


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#33 Offline fishers64

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Posted Jun 17 2014 - 02:26 PM

 

Meh. They would believe anything at the begining.

I mean later... the point is, wouldn't Miserix realize the risk to himself is too great?

 

 

He probably would. As fishers said... not the smartest of Makuta, but likely not dumb enough to think that'd work. :P

 

Even if he didn't figure that out, I would think that he would likely remember how his "loyal Makuta brothers" treated him last time. *cough* free vacation trip to an active volcano *cough*

 

If you really want somebody to bring the Makuta back, Alt. Teridax might try if he wants to impose order on the universe. However, he might be very careful with that, as he knows that Makuta (especially in this universe) can become evil. On the other hand, the fact that he has mostly dealt with good Makuta over the years might make him naive, although his dialogue seems to indicate otherwise. 


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#34 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jun 17 2014 - 05:28 PM

And now since nobody else brought up the small, dull-brown elephant in the room -- let's talk about the possibility of Velika bringing back the species as servants. :P
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#35 Offline Silverglass

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Posted Jun 17 2014 - 06:29 PM

And now since nobody else brought up the small, dull-brown elephant in the room -- let's talk about the possibility of Velika bringing back the species as servants. :P

Welp...


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#36 Online Iron_Man5

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Posted Jun 17 2014 - 07:07 PM

If you really want somebody to bring the Makuta back, Alt. Teridax might try if he wants to impose order on the universe. However, he might be very careful with that, as he knows that Makuta (especially in this universe) can become evil. On the other hand, the fact that he has mostly dealt with good Makuta over the years might make him naive, although his dialogue seems to indicate otherwise. 

 

Course, Alt terry could convince the new makuta to drain their shadow, so they're pure light like he is...


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#37 Offline fishers64

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Posted Jun 17 2014 - 10:22 PM

 

If you really want somebody to bring the Makuta back, Alt. Teridax might try if he wants to impose order on the universe. However, he might be very careful with that, as he knows that Makuta (especially in this universe) can become evil. On the other hand, the fact that he has mostly dealt with good Makuta over the years might make him naive, although his dialogue seems to indicate otherwise. 

 

Course, Alt terry could convince the new makuta to drain their shadow, so they're pure light like he is...

 

Indeed. However, Alt. Teridax claims that it takes "years of meditation" to be able to banish your inner darkness completely. That might not be too easy on the newly reformed SM with all the evil influences running around. (Miserix...)

 

If the new Makuta do manage to banish their inner darkness, however, they will be very much stronger for it, but if even one or two falls to the side of darkness, it's bad news. Also Makuta crave recognition; in the Melding they got it - in this universe, they will likely never get it, or it will take a looong time for them to get it, given the big stigma, which could turn more of them to the side of evil. 

 

And now since nobody else brought up the small, dull-brown elephant in the room -- let's talk about the possibility of Velika bringing back the species as servants. :P

How about...

 

...never mind. (I don't play mind games, and this one's older than cheese. It does have the slight advantage of not letting your opponent know what you really want, since you can't tell whether the opponent was aiming for the human-nature reaction of NOT discussing the subject, or the subversion, because the human-nature reaction is very obvious to the person it's aimed at, thus they think they are being tricked. *does not put manipulative tricks past bonesiii* *slow nod*)

 

In any case, I don't think Velika will be bringing the species back. For one thing, he's been killing off wild cards, beings acting outside expected GB parameters. Not only are new beings inherently unpredictable, but according to expected GB parameters aren't supposed to exist. 

 

Also, Velika, unlike Alt. Teridax, has very little idea that Makuta can be good. After all, they messed up the universe that he lived in and made a considerable mess. He probably would stack them in with the GB's "failures" - and why revive/bring back a failure? Not only that, he's just a Matoran, and vulnerable to the 42 Kraata powers that Makuta possess. 

 

(*wonders if this was a trap to catch the person who would see through the trap, who has been objecting to various people bringing Makuta back all discussion :P* Whatever. I will soon find out. :evilgrin: *kicks lampshades*) 


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#38 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jun 18 2014 - 12:22 AM

Not only that, he's just a Matoran, and vulnerable to the 42 Kraata powers that Makuta possess.

I agree with the rest, but to this part, I was thinking of the theory that he might be able to turn off anybody's powers like Toa powers can be turned off (or Vezon's Olmak). Pretty sure Greg said something at one point implying he may have done this when killing Tren Krom and/or Karzahni.

 

I was also thinking he might Ahkmou them, so they might be a lot more predictable than others, actually. :shrugs:

 

He probably wouldn't, though. Maybe.


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#39 Offline fishers64

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Posted Jun 18 2014 - 01:01 AM

 

Not only that, he's just a Matoran, and vulnerable to the 42 Kraata powers that Makuta possess.

I agree with the rest, but to this part, I was thinking of the theory that he might be able to turn off anybody's powers like Toa powers can be turned off (or Vezon's Olmak). Pretty sure Greg said something at one point implying he may have done this when killing Tren Krom and/or Karzahni.

 

Possible. However, I don't think it factored too much in the deaths of TK and Karz; the former knew Velika, so didn't use his mega-mental powers, plus was vulnerable, and the latter was a mental vegetable. Aside from his mask, I don't think Karz had any powers, and I think he was too mentally scattered to use it.
 

I was also thinking he might Ahkmou them, so they might be a lot more predictable than others, actually. :shrugs:
 
He probably wouldn't, though. Maybe.

I rate this possibility as unlikely. Greg defined the Makuta's "curse" as being arrogant and always wanting more power for themselves. Even if Velika lied to them, that wouldn't stop at least some of them wanting to supplant Velika as ruler. Even if he turned off their powers, a warhammer smash to the power suppressor machine, and party over. :P

Worse, we have people like Alt. Teridax around, who knows just all of this. The core personality was able to sway most of the Makuta to his side - this one might be able to as well. Granted, Velika might not know about Alt. Teridax, but the luck of the antidermis pool might spawn another mastermind. (But we don't need one, we already have a Teridax!) All of those scheming Makuta might make for a good story, but the problem is that it would be over in 10 minutes - the Matoran Velika would be dead. What happens afterwards, though, could be fun...except that V probably knows all this and doesn't want to die. 

 

* * * 

 

Another thing: the antidermis pool, if anyone can get to it, probably isn't cool on being used anymore. It seems quite capable of defending itself and it has a mind of its own. I wonder if Alt. Teridax could persuade it, and maybe Velika could override it, but some of the others mentioned it would definitely not agree with. Miserix, for example. 


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#40 Offline Toa Sialo

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Posted Jun 22 2014 - 03:16 AM

Yeah. That thing had anger issues.
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