Why Matoran are so weak ?

[Zidonaro]

You see the Makuta, who are tall and super powerful, and then there's the Skakdi, who originally were not that powereful, but taller and more stronger, and there's the Vortixx, and the species of each Barraki, and Brutaka's, Axonn's, and who know how many others species.

 

My question is, why would the GBs make the Matoran so short and weak, while there are species much powerful than the Matoran, even tho the Matoran are the most important beings in the MU ????

 

It seems that GBs made them so weak that they would not even think about revolting against MN (Like the Barraki and Makuta did).

Edited June 30, 2014 by jalar

[Underscore]

I'm pretty sure it was the Great Beings that created the Matoran, not Mata Nui. And Matoran aren't THAT weak; some (fo example, Taipu, Huki) are fairly strong and athletic.

 

Anyway, the purpose of the Matoran was to labor, so maybe the Great Beings thought they didn't need to be very powerful.

 

(Please correct me if I'm wrong on this. I don't show up in S&T very often.)

Edited June 30, 2014 by Mairanui

[Zidonaro]

I'm pretty sure it was the Great Beings that created the Matoran, not Mata Nui. And Matoran aren't THAT weak; some (fo example, Taipu, Huki) are fairly strong and athletic.

 

Anyway, the purpose of the Matoran was to labor, so maybe the Great Beings thought they didn't need to be very powerful.

 

(Please correct me if I'm wrong on this. I don't show up in S&T very often.)

 

Oh, I knew I had done something wrong. Sorry, I have edited my post.

 

But yeah, I guess any other species were Mata Nui's doing

[TERIDAX941]

Yeah Mata Nui made the other species (aside from the Zyglak, Bahrag and Artahka and Karzahni...)

 

Well Matoran are only the first stage in their "development" with the Toa being the ones who do the fighting and so forth, so the Matoran weren't necessarily supposed to "look after" themselves like they did on Mata Nui (and Voya Nui) it was the Toa's job to protect them, so the Matoran didn't have to be super powerful to do their duty.

[Zidonaro]

Yeah Mata Nui made the other species (aside from the Zyglak, Bahrag and Artahka and Karzahni...)

 

Well Matoran are only the first stage in their "development" with the Toa being the ones who do the fighting and so forth, so the Matoran weren't necessarily supposed to "look after" themselves like they did on Mata Nui (and Voya Nui) it was the Toa's job to protect them, so the Matoran didn't have to be super powerful to do their duty.

 

Wouldn't be easy if they made all Matoran into Toa so they could defend themselves ? 

[TERIDAX941]

 

Yeah Mata Nui made the other species (aside from the Zyglak, Bahrag and Artahka and Karzahni...)

 

Well Matoran are only the first stage in their "development" with the Toa being the ones who do the fighting and so forth, so the Matoran weren't necessarily supposed to "look after" themselves like they did on Mata Nui (and Voya Nui) it was the Toa's job to protect them, so the Matoran didn't have to be super powerful to do their duty.

 

Wouldn't be easy if they made all Matoran into Toa so they could defend themselves ? 

 

Well the Great Beings made Marandar because they were afraid of a toa revolution after Mata Nui completed his purpose, I really doubt they'd create thousands upon thousands of Toa if they were scared of just the Toa that were around could go bad. 

Edited June 30, 2014 by Iron_Man5

[veeder]

 

 

Yeah Mata Nui made the other species (aside from the Zyglak, Bahrag and Artahka and Karzahni...)

 

Well Matoran are only the first stage in their "development" with the Toa being the ones who do the fighting and so forth, so the Matoran weren't necessarily supposed to "look after" themselves like they did on Mata Nui (and Voya Nui) it was the Toa's job to protect them, so the Matoran didn't have to be super powerful to do their duty.

 

Wouldn't be easy if they made all Matoran into Toa so they could defend themselves ? 

 

Well the Great Beings made Marandar because they were afraid of a toa revolution after Mata Nui completed his purpose, I really doubt they'd create thousands upon thousands of Toa if they were scared of just the Toa that were around could go bad. 

 

 

Wait, if they worried that the toa could become corrupt, why didn't the GB's make the matoran strong so they could defend agaisnt the toa while Marendar came to help?

[TERIDAX941]

Well it wasn't the Matoran they were concerned about, it was the Glatorian and Agori.

[boston100]

They were for labour not for fighting.

[bonesiii]

Because they were inspired by Agori. Simple.

 

Also, they're not weak -- they're small. Being small makes more sense a lot of times for maintenance. Most really tall people don't go into engineering for a reason, it's hard to fit into tight places to fix machinery. All those automated skyscrapers in Metru Nui for example that are part of keeping Mata Nui healthy -- they'd have to be designed much differently if titans or Toa-sized beings were all that were available to keep them up. Meaning more open space, which would be less efficient.

 

And for small beings, they're really incredibly strong, by virtue of their biomechanical nature. While individually they may be fairly weak, and they have no innate powers, in large numbers (and they're the most numerous sapient beings in the MU) and with weapons they can be a formidable force. Nothing compared to Makuta, but that makes little difference with most of the other titans or Toa either if a Makuta really wants to beat them.

 

And what's the alternatives?

 

Either small beings would be rare (and thus even more likely to be oppressed, though the GBs other than Velika wouldn't have thought of that possibility, but out-story we can consider it), or nonexistent, then you lack variety. Equals bad (society variety theory says having a wider variety of people helps a society deal with a wider variety of challenges, and that would be even more so in a society that exists to upkeep a spaceship they live in).

[fishers64]

Weak? Tell that to the Matoran that defended themselves - at half stature, no less - from savage beasts for 1000 years that they were weak. 

 

Tell that to Jaller and his team of Matoran, who tricked their way through Karazanhi. Then turn around and say to Garan and his team, who posed a serious threat to the Toa Nuva themselves, that they're weak. 

 

Matoran had a civil war so great that the they threatened Mata Nui's life. Weak? Ha. They were just as much of a threat to Mata Nui as the Makuta was. 

 

Popular misconception: he who does not have powers = weak. He who is small is weak. I find that assertion to be foolish. Matoran are not weak. It's just that they have a job to do, and they outsource their military/defense to the Toa. Then they optimize their defenders for the task. Like we do - it's just they do it a little differently. 

[Zidonaro]

Weak? Tell that to the Matoran that defended themselves - at half stature, no less - from savage beasts for 1000 years that they were weak. 

 

Tell that to Jaller and his team of Matoran, who tricked their way through Karazanhi. Then turn around and say to Garan and his team, who posed a serious threat to the Toa Nuva themselves, that they're weak. 

 

Matoran had a civil war so great that the they threatened Mata Nui's life. Weak? Ha. They were just as much of a threat to Mata Nui as the Makuta was. 

 

Popular misconception: he who does not have powers = weak. He who is small is weak. I find that assertion to be foolish. Matoran are not weak. It's just that they have a job to do, and they outsource their military/defense to the Toa. Then they optimize their defenders for the task. Like we do - it's just they do it a little differently. 

 

I see you got a bit angry because of the way I implied they are weak, please forgive me. The way I used "weak" was in comparasion to the other species of the MU... 

 

And about the 1000 years living in danger, The Turaga actually protected the Matoran during this time, using their masks and elemental powers.

[fishers64]

 

Weak? Tell that to the Matoran that defended themselves - at half stature, no less - from savage beasts for 1000 years that they were weak. 

 

Tell that to Jaller and his team of Matoran, who tricked their way through Karazanhi. Then turn around and say to Garan and his team, who posed a serious threat to the Toa Nuva themselves, that they're weak. 

 

Matoran had a civil war so great that the they threatened Mata Nui's life. Weak? Ha. They were just as much of a threat to Mata Nui as the Makuta was. 

 

Popular misconception: he who does not have powers = weak. He who is small is weak. I find that assertion to be foolish. Matoran are not weak. It's just that they have a job to do, and they outsource their military/defense to the Toa. Then they optimize their defenders for the task. Like we do - it's just they do it a little differently. 

 

I see you got a bit angry because of the way I implied they are weak, please forgive me. The way I used "weak" was in comparasion to the other species of the MU... 

 

And about the 1000 years living in danger, The Turaga actually protected the Matoran during this time, using their masks and elemental powers.

 

I forgive you. Sorry if I'm a little grouchy - I definitely could have worded this better. 

 

The Turaga point is fair - but you don't see them at the end of MNOG - it was Jaller and his huge contingent of Matoran with throwing disks that carried the day. I think they would have had to manage at least a little bit on their own. Tales of the Masks has another example where Matoran teamed up to beat a Bohrok-Kal. Granted, they had Toa to help them there, but still the same point. 

 

Also, keep in mind that stock Skakdi and Vortixx don't have powers either - Skakdi have powers thanks to Spiriah's meddling, and Vortixx built their own powered weapons (Rhotuka, etc). The latter would be reasonable IMO - Vortixx don't have Toa to help defend them. The real advantage would be strength, but I would still hate to see 10 Matoran versus an unarmed stock Skakdi or Vortixx, and not because of the Matoran in danger. 

[Toatapio Nuva]

Imagine a whole universe full of nothing but all-powerful beings. That's a recipe for disaster. There's a reason powerful beings need to be rare.

[bonesiii]

And about the 1000 years living in danger, The Turaga actually protected the Matoran during this time, using their masks and elemental powers.

Just in case there's a misconception here, the Turaga played only a small role in Koro defense. They went for most of the time with only one Noble mask each (and some like Translation weren't often ideal for defense), and their elemental power is like candle-level, barely enough to be of much use compared to a Matoran's throwing disk or a Madu Cabolo. The masks were much more useful than the elemental powers, to the point that the elements were barely worth mentioning.

 

Also, one elder cannot protect a whole village from all directions. More often it would be the Matoran protecting the Turaga. The elders certainly helped out, but their role was more of leadership than active protection, and they would use their masks in emergencies or for self-defense. It was a matter of cooperation in terms of level of ability in defense (and in other terms, a matter of chain of command).

[~garnira returns~]

Simply put, because they didn't need to have powers. The creatures of the Matoran universe were not initially designed to be fully sentient, so making them able to fight would have been a waste of time if there was nothing they needed to fight against. There wasn't supposed to be any conflicts among the inhabitants of the MU, it just happened. 

[MetaToa]

That's a funny topic. In the Melding Universe, the stature of the Toa and the Matoran were reversed. Matoran were large laborers while the Toa were, if I recall correctly, Rahi control. In this universe, however, the Makuta had never turned evil.

 

But that's not supposed to be a point, just an observation. 

 

Matoran are not necessarily weak. They are just like normal (non) human beings. The Toa are like super heroes.

 

Matoran aren't weak; Makuta and the Toa are just very powerful.

[N.S.M.8]

 

And about the 1000 years living in danger, The Turaga actually protected the Matoran during this time, using their masks and elemental powers.

Just in case there's a misconception here, the Turaga played only a small role in Koro defense. They went for most of the time with only one Noble mask each (and some like Translation weren't often ideal for defense), and their elemental power is like candle-level, barely enough to be of much use compared to a Matoran's throwing disk or a Madu Cabolo. The masks were much more useful than the elemental powers, to the point that the elements were barely worth mentioning.

 

Also, one elder cannot protect a whole village from all directions. More often it would be the Matoran protecting the Turaga. The elders certainly helped out, but their role was more of leadership than active protection, and they would use their masks in emergencies or for self-defense. It was a matter of cooperation in terms of level of ability in defense (and in other terms, a matter of chain of command).

 

 

I think that they had the noble masks for the majority of the Dark Time.

I always thought that when Makuta stole the Toa Stones, he also stole the Turagas' masks.  Takua returned the Toa Stones and their primary masks, while the Toa found the rest.  

 

That being said, 6 noble masks each and weakened elemental powers would still not be enough to protect the villages, which is why the Matoran needed to form militias.  

[bonesiii]

As far as I know that is only unfounded speculation. What we know is that the Toa Metru "hid the masks", and the Toa Mata "collected the masks." And they were not stated to be stolen at the same time as the Toa Stones (I could be wrong... but I haven't found such a statement yet). It's possible they were stolen at any point during the thousand years, but we don't have direct evidence for it as far as I know.

 

So, in the absence of confirmation, it's best to go with the presumption that they only had one mask per Turaga until the Mata collected others. You're right though that it doesn't really change things much either way.

[N.S.M.8]

As far as I know that is only unfounded speculation. What we know is that the Toa Metru "hid the masks", and the Toa Mata "collected the masks." And they were not stated to be stolen at the same time as the Toa Stones (I could be wrong... but I haven't found such a statement yet). It's possible they were stolen at any point during the thousand years, but we don't have direct evidence for it as far as I know.

 

So, in the absence of confirmation, it's best to go with the presumption that they only had one mask per Turaga until the Mata collected others. You're right though that it doesn't really change things much either way.

I may be remembering this wrong, but I thought that Greg confirmed that the Toa Metru hid the Great Masks and kept the noble ones to use as Turaga.

[bonesiii]

Okay, thanks for saying so. I don't have time to look into it further though, but I'd like to see the quote. I did look everywhere on BS01 I could think of and found no confirmation. I did find a denial of it on the timeline page though:

 

The Toa Metru hide Great and Noble Kanohi all over Mata Nui.

[fishers64]

I found this: 
 

Interesting. So, on Mata Nui, how did they know? This is another thing I wondered in the MOL, that I forgot to say. When the Avhokii was revealed, Takua (or Jaller, don't remember which), said "A Great Kanohi Mask:" How did he know it was a Great one?

4) Simple. No masks were being made on Mata Nui. The only masks they had were the Great Masks that had been hidden, the Noble Masks that Makuta had spirited away, and the Matoran masks. So it was reasonable to assume any mask you found was not a Matoran mask.

 

6: The Turaga brought the kanohi to Mata Nui, correct? Now great and noble masks were scattered and hidden, but when the noble masks were found the toa gave them to the turaga. Now why in the name of mata nui would the Turaga want to hide them if they were only gonna get them back? Surely finding the great masks would have been challenge enough for the toa, and would have proven their worth?

6) The Turaga didn't hide the Noble Masks. Those were stolen and hidden by Rahi.

 
I'm not finding any denials of this later...

[N.S.M.8]

 

Okay, thanks for saying so. I don't have time to look into it further though, but I'd like to see the quote. I did look everywhere on BS01 I could think of and found no confirmation. I did find a denial of it on the timeline page though:

 

The Toa Metru hide Great and Noble Kanohi all over Mata Nui.

 

 

 

I found this: 

 

Interesting. So, on Mata Nui, how did they know? This is another thing I wondered in the MOL, that I forgot to say. When the Avhokii was revealed, Takua (or Jaller, don't remember which), said "A Great Kanohi Mask:" How did he know it was a Great one?

 

4) Simple. No masks were being made on Mata Nui. The only masks they had were the Great Masks that had been hidden, the Noble Masks that Makuta had spirited away, and the Matoran masks. So it was reasonable to assume any mask you found was not a Matoran mask.

 

6: The Turaga brought the kanohi to Mata Nui, correct? Now great and noble masks were scattered and hidden, but when the noble masks were found the toa gave them to the turaga. Now why in the name of mata nui would the Turaga want to hide them if they were only gonna get them back? Surely finding the great masks would have been challenge enough for the toa, and would have proven their worth?

 

6) The Turaga didn't hide the Noble Masks. Those were stolen and hidden by Rahi.

 

I'm not finding any denials of this later...

Would someone with the desire and the ability to update BS01 please do so?

 

http://biosector01.com/wiki/index.php/Timeline/The_Great_Rescue