Why wasn't the MU Robot discovered sooner?

[Pomegranate]

This is something that's been bugging me ever since I thought of it and I really wanted to get it out there and discussed. My apologies if this topic has been explored before or brought up to Greg at some point already.

I was thinking about how the MU reveal was supposed to happen at the end of 03 and how the island of Mata Nui was right over the Great Spirit's face, and basically I ended up wondering if Gali wearing the Kaukau (or Kopaka using the Akaku, or basically anyone on the Aqua Magna surface who had the means to go or see down there themselves) would've been able to see the MU Robot laying on the ocean floor, and why they never did? You would think Gali would explore the ocean around the island and swim down along the seabed, and inevitably notice the massive metal plates or an enormous neck piston or something of the robot, wouldn't she? I mean, sure there are limits to Matoran and Kanohi power, and visibility as you went down under the ocean, and perhaps the robot could've been covered in sediment and whatnot as it settled after the crash, but it just doesn't really seem to me like something that would've been impossible to figure out if they attempted to, which they obviously didn't for the sake of the plot.

I get that maybe they would never have discovered the truth unless they were trying to prove something they already knew, but wouldn't it have been possible for the powers of the Akuku, either from the island or during an ocean voyage over the length of the robot from the surface, or the combined powers of the Komau and Kaukau (or the Nuva equivalents of each of the named masks, at least) to let the Toa discover an enormous body under the waves? Perhaps a Matoran diving expedition? If attempted from Voya Nui, a casual trip by Matoro with the Iden, or maybe another Toa using the Iden to leave the MU from within and see it from space? I understand how the truth was so well hidden from the fans, but in-story the amount of time that passed after the Great Cataclysm seems like it would be more than enough for someone to get bored or curious and stumble upon the truth or at least see something that they don't quite understand.

[LordofBionicles]

I think it's the same as to why nobody found the Great Disks until the Morbuzakh attack, the characters don't have the freetime to go wandering around, the Matoran were always busy doing their everyday jobs and there were some restricted areas in which the Turaga forbid the Matoran to go to, as for the Toa they were always fighting off Rahi or Bohrok or Rahkshi. 

Also I don't think a Kanohi Akaku would really help because you would only see a giant structure but you wouldn't be able to tell it's made from metal so even if Kopaka realized about that he would may think it's just part of the landmass or something like that.

[Sumiki]

Because plot convenience.

[Takatu]

Well, as far as not seeing it while in the waters around the island: The thing was so ludicrously massive that even if Gali, for example, did see these gigantic metal plates, she'd have to swim the length of them numerous times, which could potentially take years, and map it all out before having even an inkling that it was person-shaped. Kinda like in The Legend Reborn, the protoype robot was so big that no one really saw what it was until they were standing up high enough to see it as a whole, and the MU robot was several times bigger than that one.

[Pomegranate]

Well, as far as not seeing it while in the waters around the island: The thing was so ludicrously massive that even if Gali, for example, did see these gigantic metal plates, she'd have to swim the length of them numerous times, which could potentially take years, and map it all out before having even an inkling that it was person-shaped. Kinda like in The Legend Reborn, the protoype robot was so big that no one really saw what it was until they were standing up high enough to see it as a whole, and the MU robot was several times bigger than that one.

Well, if she wanted to, she had the Kakama available to her (or at least Pohatu's Kakama Nuva ability) which would seriously cut down on travel time. I'm sure finding enormous metal plates at the bottom of the ocean which went on for miles would be a great mystery for her to share with the others and bring up a lot of questions. If anything, she would easily be able to identify the shape of an arm with hands and fingers, or giant perfectly round pistons which wouldn't possibly be natural. I suppose the fact that (at least from the pre-2001 concept art I've seen) the MU's camouflage system had the Mata Nui landmass completely cover the robot's head and slope down like a natural island made the island appear to be completely normal and would have required some looking until the "ocean floor" gave way to Mata Nui's chest or whatever.

 

What about the Turage/Toa Metru? I unfortunately can't remember what the MU inhabitants' world view was; did they know they lived in isolated domes, or..? Wouldn't discovering an island on the surface (with only one sun) rouse some suspicion from them? 

[Master Inika]

I feel like Gali never discovered the robot because she wasn't looking for it. It's also likely that the metal plates were buried by sand over the 999 years before the Toa arrived on the island. As for the Akaku, it's possible that the mask can't pierce bottom of the island, similar to how the Suva couldn't send masks through the Karda Nui barrier.

[Pomegranate]

I feel like Gali never discovered the robot because she wasn't looking for it. It's also likely that the metal plates were buried by sand over the 999 years before the Toa arrived on the island. As for the Akaku, it's possible that the mask can't pierce bottom of the island, similar to how the Suva couldn't send masks through the Karda Nui barrier.

The Akaku/Akaku Nuva was confirmed to not be able to pierce the MU shell, but I was thinking more along the lines of being able to see the outline of the MU robot's face beneath the island (being on top of a mountain, or going up high with the power of a Miru would give him a good vantage point) or using the telescopic property to see at least part of the body beneath the ocean.

[maxim21]

I don't see how the telescopic properties of the Akaku would help since that doesn't allow to zoom out. (As far as I know, plus that wouldn't make sense).

 

I think you don't see how big the Great Spirit Robot is. If its head/body ratio is the same than for human, its head would be twice as big as the length of the island of Mata Nui. They would need to go really far to see some big shape. And even then, they could easily think that's just some kind of rift.

 

Furthermore, I don't think the Great Spirit Robot "skin" is made of metal plates. I think most of it would be like the Maze of Shadows.

[Pomegranate]

I don't see how the telescopic properties of the Akaku would help since that doesn't allow to zoom out. (As far as I know, plus that wouldn't make sense).

 

I think you don't see how big the Great Spirit Robot is. If its head/body ratio is the same than for human, its head would be twice as big as the length of the island of Mata Nui. They would need to go really far to see some big shape. And even then, they could easily think that's just some kind of rift.

 

Furthermore, I don't think the Great Spirit Robot "skin" is made of metal plates. I think most of it would be like the Maze of Shadows.

I was thinking that the telescopic property together with the x-ray vision would let Kopaka see through the island and ocean at basically as much of the robot as would fill his field of vision-- and if what Pohatu once claimed is true, you could see the whole island from the top of Mount Ihu, and Kopaka has been up there too. If the robot's hand, for example, was in that field of vision, it would be very small and vague from Kopaka's point of view, and being able to zoom in on that would help him see it better. In art I've seen of the Great Spirit robot laying on the seabed, the island is bigger than the head and covers it completely, and the video of the island breaking apart as he rises supports that. And I thought the Maze of Shadows was in the tunnels that led from the Metru Nui dome up to the surface?

[maxim21]

and if what Pohatu once claimed is true, you could see the whole island from the top of Mount Ihu,

That doesn't mean you could see the whole island on one look. (And actually, given Mount Ihu is in the middle of the island, that's highly unprobable, unless Toa have eyes behind their heads).

 

So, Kopaka would just see a small part of the head of the robot. Probably quite flat, given he would be on one eye.

 

If the robot's hand, for example, was in that field of vision, it would be very small and vague from Kopaka's point of view, and being able to zoom in on that would help him see it better.

Well, the hand would likely be millions of feet away from the robot's head. He would definitely need a very good telescopic lense.

 

Concerning the island of Mata Nui length, I based what I said on its official length (303.91 miles) and the robot size (forty millions feet). On human's proportions, the head is around 1/8 or 1/9 of the whole body. That would make the head of the Great Spirit Robot between four and five millions feet (757,57 miles and 946,97 miles).

 

As far as I know, most art doesn't fit with the official measurements, but that fall under artistic license.

 

The point I was trying to make with the Maze of Shadows would be that Mata Nui "skin" probably look a lot like rock - just like the Maze of Shadows, which is inside its skin - and has tunnels inside it, so that wouldn't be obvious it's not natural.

[bonesiii]

You would think Gali would explore the ocean around the island and swim down along the seabed, and inevitably notice the massive metal plates or an enormous neck piston or something of the robot, wouldn't she?

It's presumed that thin camouflage covered the entire robot. Mahri Nui seemed to be sitting on natural rock formations, not metal. The Bohrok apparently were only needed on the face because the camouflage there was so thick, not because it would be the only camouflaged part. Even if that wasn't part of the intended camouflage design, it sat there for 1000 years, so various sea growths would probably coat it making its material harder to recognize as happens with real-world wrecks.

 

And unless she charted everything on both sides and figured out it was symmetrical, how would she know it's a piston, not a really weird natural formation? But Gali wasn't there to chart the seafloor. She was there to stop infected Rahi, collect masks, etc.

 

it just doesn't really seem to me like something that would've been impossible to figure out if they attempted to, which they obviously didn't for the sake of the plot.

You're looking at it wrong -- from the outside, rather than the inside. It's not just because of plot that they didn't think of mapping the seafloor to see if it was shaped like a giant robot. Who would ever think of such a thing? And the Matoran were concerned with survival and holding off the Rahi raids for a thousand years -- they didn't even like travel! Once the Toa came, there was nowhere near enough time. I'm not seeing how it would actually be possible.

 

But on the inside, yes, as has been brought up before in many topics, it does seem strange that (as far as we're told) nobody ever thought "hey the map of all these islands and domes and tunnels looks like a giant Toa!"

 

Yet either way, we don't really know that nobody thought of it, but they may have just assumed it was symbolic, since they knew the GBs made it all. Like, if you were walking along on a cliff and looked down, and noticed the cliff formation had four distinct faces carved into it, and they looked like familiar leaders of a particular nation ( ), you wouldn't think "maybe that's them!" -- you'd think it was a statue carved in their honor, which it is in real life.

 

wouldn't it have been possible for the powers of the Akuku, either from the island or during an ocean voyage over the length of the robot from the surface, or the combined powers of the Komau and Kaukau (or the Nuva equivalents of each of the named masks, at least) to let the Toa discover an enormous body under the waves?

Komau? What does the Mask of Mind Control have to do with it? (And there is no Nuva equivalent of the Komau.) But I digress. Reason for quoting is to say -- the Akaku doesn't have that kind of range, no. When combined with the telescope, Gali was able to extend its range once, but unless Kopaka or any of them thought of yanking the telescope off its pedestal and looking for something nobody would think of looking for, I'd say that's a pretty clear no. No?

 

If attempted from Voya Nui, a casual trip by Matoro with the Iden, or maybe another Toa using the Iden to leave the MU from within and see it from space?

You can't see through water of much depth (on this scale), so no. I thought of that in one of my fanfics but rejected it for that reason and had to come up with another way.

 

Well, if she wanted to, she had the Kakama available to her (or at least Pohatu's Kakama Nuva ability) which would seriously cut down on travel time. I'm sure finding enormous metal plates at the bottom of the ocean which went on for miles would be a great mystery for her to share with the others and bring up a lot of questions. If anything, she would easily be able to identify the shape of an arm with hands and fingers

No no no. Hands and fingers are FAR away. Neck pistons maybe, but nothing that distant.

 

What about the Turage/Toa Metru? I unfortunately can't remember what the MU inhabitants' world view was; did they know they lived in isolated domes, or..? Wouldn't discovering an island on the surface (with only one sun) rouse some suspicion from them?

Now you're getting to the meat. But we don't have specifics on what they knew. And we knew for years of this arrangement and didn't immediately think "oh it must be a giant with an island over its face." That was the whole brilliance of it -- true, some theorized it just before, but we had other clues the Toa wouldn't. Again, since they knew the Great Beings made those places, they would probably think what we thought -- the GBs just wanted to make islands/continents in giant underground caverns.

 

The Akaku/Akaku Nuva was confirmed to not be able to pierce the MU shell, but I was thinking more along the lines of being able to see the outline of the MU robot's face beneath the island (being on top of a mountain, or going up high with the power of a Miru would give him a good vantage point) or using the telescopic property to see at least part of the body beneath the ocean.

Actually they were already aware of that strange surface thanks to the Onu-Matoran miners, but neither Kopaka nor anyone else had the time for anybody to think of looking at it with an Akaku so far as we were told. It might seem reasonable in 2014, since here in real life we've had time to think of it, but in 2001-2003 (and 04-05 during the Turaga's tales), in-story, events moved much faster than that.

 

if what Pohatu once claimed is true, you could see the whole island from the top of Mount Ihu

Not sure why you're bringing that up, but it's essentially true, since Ihu was the highest peak. Of course, you wouldn't see what was hidden behind other mountains and hills. He didn't mean it literally, of course.

 

Kopaka has been up there too. If the robot's hand, for example, was in that field of vision

I'm not following this... Are you thinking of the scrapped Three-Finger Island idea? But even if the hand was above the water a little, that wouldn't mean it would be seen from Mata Nui; the horizon curve probably would prevent it from being spotted. Then again, it's a megaplanet (fragment/moon, but still huge), so the curve would be less dramatic over great distances, but yeah. Unlikely. It's not like the Red Star where everybody knew to look for it.

 

In art I've seen of the Great Spirit robot laying on the seabed, the island is bigger than the head and covers it completely

This has been covered in past topics. See this image for the basics:

 

http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/bonesiii/Bionicle/MUdomesmap/test_myth_robot_island_size.png

 

Basically, unless we are told otherwise, those are the size comparisons, so what maxim said appears to be correct. The image you're thinking of was concept art. Other than the one mentioned in that image as not fitting these numbers (which the animators probably didn't know), everything else that is canon can fit with that interpretation, so far. (Although 1/8 is not the head proportion to body.)

 

The point I was trying to make with the Maze of Shadows would be that Mata Nui "skin" probably look a lot like rock - just like the Maze of Shadows, which is inside its skin - and has tunnels inside it, so that wouldn't be obvious it's not natural.

In fact, the MNOG Onu-Matoran miners thought it seemed organic, rather than metal. The final comics also seemed to portray it as some ambiguous substance having traits of metal but it didn't actually call it that. Makes sense the GBs would go beyond normal matter mimicking for that highly important part. So, the Matoran didn't know what to make of it, and neither would the Toa if they thought to analyze it. Even if they did find out it was metal, it doesn't follow that they'd think of a giant robot unless they took the time to map it.

That's the bottom line -- the topic question asks why didn't they, not why couldn't they under completely unrealistic circumstances. They didn't have time, they didn't know to look for it, etc.

Edited July 10, 2014 by bonesiii

[Pomegranate]

Oh, shoot. That seems to make sense, then, yeah. I may have underestimated the size of the MU robot in relation to the island, and the extent of the camouflage. And the Komau was a typo, I meant Kakama, and I thought I fixed that... whoops?

Well, thanks for entertaining my idea, it's reassuring to know there's actually very good reasons it would've been impossible to discover the outside of the MU.

[boston100]

Scale. remeber people thought the earth was flat. Even if they did stumble across a neck piston it would be so big that they couldnt see it for what it is.