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So, I have some comments and questions regarding this project. (Oh, you knew I would)

 

1. So, after this $2000 kickstarter is funded, are people still gonna have to buy the mask/backpack/box pack? Or are they paying for it in advance now?
2. In what way did Templar approve of this? Did they allow the use of their logos on the packaging? Or will that even still remain?

3. Do you guys honestly think Lego will approve of you guys selling items with their imagery/logos on it? I'm seriously asking this, it's not a sarcastic remark.

 

With that out of the way, my comments will remain at "this looks like some shaky stuff". I can't say I know what the outcome with be, but I am curious to see the answers to the above questions.

 

Thanks.

 

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So, I have some comments and questions regarding this project. (Oh, you knew I would)

 

1. So, after this $2000 kickstarter is funded, are people still gonna have to buy the mask/backpack/box pack? Or are they paying for it in advance now?

2. In what way did Templar approve of this? Did they allow the use of their logos on the packaging? Or will that even still remain?

3. Do you guys honestly think Lego will approve of you guys selling items with their imagery/logos on it? I'm seriously asking this, it's not a sarcastic remark.

 

With that out of the way, my comments will remain at "this looks like some shaky stuff". I can't say I know what the outcome with be, but I am curious to see the answers to the above questions.

 

Thanks.

 

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With the exception of the Kickstarter question which obviously wasn't applicable back then, I seem to recall XONAR answered all of your questions here in the previous unofficial topic. As such, I'm sure he'll be around shortly to reiterate. To answer your first question however, yes, the Kickstarter is something of a preorder providing they contribute the specified amount to receive a copy.

Edited by Vahkiti: Time Guardian
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Question 1: If you donate $30 or more it is considered a preorder.

 

I addressed the last two questions in the other topic, but I'll reiterate here.

 

Question 2: As a matter of fact, we have spoken to Templar about this and it was fine by them the last time we talked.

 

Question 3: As I've said before, unless we sold MNOLG:CE for a higher price, we will not be making a profit on the bundle, and we don't intend to make a profit on it,l. This is just a fun project for us. All that being said, I do not think there is a problem with LEGO.

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Aaand with that addressed for the most part, since the topic has been bumped a bit, I think I'll use this opportunity to deviate slightly off topic and post the latest update the the backpack model. Not much has changed, but the straps have been spaced to fit the Tohunga head, and the shape of the bag has been sharpened a little bit. There will be some minor cosmetic changes involving the strap connector pegs, but overall it's pretty much done now and ready for prototyping.

 
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Question 1: If you donate $30 or more it is considered a preorder.

 

I addressed the last two questions in the other topic, but I'll reiterate here.

 

Question 2: As a matter of fact, we have spoken to Templar about this and it was fine by them the last time we talked.

 

Question 3: As I've said before, unless we sold MNOLG:CE for a higher price, we will not be making a profit on the bundle, and we don't intend to make a profit on it,l. This is just a fun project for us. All that being said, I do not think there is a problem with LEGO.

 

1. Preorder for the whole thing, I assume?

1a. Also, same vein, you guys said if the goal is met the Kanohi will be of higher quality than before. So will people who get the early masks be getting lower quality Kanohi?

1b. Will you guys be posting status updates are where you are donation-wise?

 

2. Are they aware you guys are selling it with their logos attached?

 

3. Selling something with a logo trademarked by a company is still getting money for using their logos, profit or no profit.

3a. If I bought this bundle, and sold it for the same price, would that be alright? Again, no sarcasm.

 

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Question 1: If you donate $30 or more it is considered a preorder.

 

I addressed the last two questions in the other topic, but I'll reiterate here.

 

Question 2: As a matter of fact, we have spoken to Templar about this and it was fine by them the last time we talked.

 

Question 3: As I've said before, unless we sold MNOLG:CE for a higher price, we will not be making a profit on the bundle, and we don't intend to make a profit on it,l. This is just a fun project for us. All that being said, I do not think there is a problem with LEGO.

 

1. Preorder for the whole thing, I assume?

1a. Also, same vein, you guys said if the goal is met the Kanohi will be of higher quality than before. So will people who get the early masks be getting lower quality Kanohi?

1b. Will you guys be posting status updates are where you are donation-wise?

 

2. Are they aware you guys are selling it with their logos attached?

 

3. Selling something with a logo trademarked by a company is still getting money for using their logos, profit or no profit.

3a. If I bought this bundle, and sold it for the same price, would that be alright? Again, no sarcasm.

 

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Yes, the entire bundle would be preordered for that price and up. As for the masks, nothing will be sold until we have a better idea of whether or not we can reach the funding goal. Shapeways is of lower quality than injection moulded parts, but do not take that as meaning that it is by any means BAD quality. Think of it more as the best quality given our current resources followed by top quality second only to Lego themselves should we reach our goal. Status updates will be posted just as with updates to the project itself. We're working out a way to put together a status bar for the top post, but we've all been a bit swamped with other priorities as of late.

 

Templar is aware of the method with which we're selling the game, they simply cannot speak for the reaction of Lego. However given that plenty of ACTUAL Lego products are sold and resold on places such as Ebay and the like, I doubt selling what basically amounts to a fan art piece would stir up any more controversy. 

Edited by Vahkiti: Time Guardian
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Question 1: If you donate $30 or more it is considered a preorder.

 

I addressed the last two questions in the other topic, but I'll reiterate here.

 

Question 2: As a matter of fact, we have spoken to Templar about this and it was fine by them the last time we talked.

 

Question 3: As I've said before, unless we sold MNOLG:CE for a higher price, we will not be making a profit on the bundle, and we don't intend to make a profit on it,l. This is just a fun project for us. All that being said, I do not think there is a problem with LEGO.

 

1. Preorder for the whole thing, I assume?

1a. Also, same vein, you guys said if the goal is met the Kanohi will be of higher quality than before. So will people who get the early masks be getting lower quality Kanohi?

1b. Will you guys be posting status updates are where you are donation-wise?

 

2. Are they aware you guys are selling it with their logos attached?

 

3. Selling something with a logo trademarked by a company is still getting money for using their logos, profit or no profit.

3a. If I bought this bundle, and sold it for the same price, would that be alright? Again, no sarcasm.

 

sig.png

 

Yes, the entire bundle would be preordered for that price and up. As for the masks, nothing will be sold until we have a better idea of whether or not we can reach the funding goal. Shapeways is of lower quality than injection moulded parts, but do not take that as meaning that it is by any means BAD quality. Think of it more as the best quality given our current resources followed by top quality second only to Lego themselves should we reach our goal. Status updates will be posted just as with updates to the project itself. We're working out a way to put together a status bar for the top post, but we've all been a bit swamped with other priorities as of late.

 

Templar is aware of the method with which we're selling the game, they simply cannot speak for the reaction of Lego. However given that plenty of ACTUAL Lego products are sold and resold on places such as Ebay and the like, I doubt selling what basically amounts to a fan art piece would stir up any more controversy. 

 

 

Well, in that case, my remaining question and concern remains to be the logos and marketing of this.

 

The reason selling a Bionicle set on Ebay is because it's after market. They aren't being made anymore. And when it's sold on Ebay, it's being sold as a used item. Other Lego sets work similarly, and the places selling them are attempting to be Lego, and often claim they aren't associated. Not to mention, when I buy something, it's my property. I can choose to sell it, so long as I'm not claiming to have made it. The reason this is a bit tricky is because, no matter how much you say it is "fan art", it is still using official Lego logos on a non-Lego product. Lego sets on Ebay are official Lego products, so you can't really remove the logos, just everyone understands you aren't Lego, it's used, etc. This is digital content made by a company that Lego hired, using Lego images, Lego, terms, etc, etc.

 

Granted, the game itself is fine, considering it'll be free and what not. So will the custom parts, so long as they have no standard Lego codes or trademarks. It's really just the box and other assorted items with Lego and Templar logos. It's fan created content using logos which people will assume will mean Lego made it. In a way, they did... Just the game, though.

 

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This seems pretty interesting. Also, just so you guys know, you can get your own 3D printer. They'd probably take 5 to 7 hours to print something the size of the mask, unless it's almost paper thin. The bad thing is that the area where the model is touching the plane that the printer is printing on might have a grill pattern, but you can remove that.


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This seems pretty interesting. Also, just so you guys know, you can get your own 3D printer. They'd probably take 5 to 7 hours to print something the size of the mask, unless it's almost paper thin. The bad thing is that the area where the model is touching the plane that the printer is printing on might have a grill pattern, but you can remove that.

 

Under most cases, the prints I've made do have something of a grain to them anyways just because of the way 3D printing works. However ordering it in polished plastic seems to get rid of this at the expense of dulling some of the sharper features. (eg: the mask code) That being said, I think injection moulding might still be  a better option, if not cheaper.

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This seems pretty interesting. Also, just so you guys know, you can get your own 3D printer. They'd probably take 5 to 7 hours to print something the size of the mask, unless it's almost paper thin. The bad thing is that the area where the model is touching the plane that the printer is printing on might have a grill pattern, but you can remove that.

 

Under most cases, the prints I've made do have something of a grain to them anyways just because of the way 3D printing works. However ordering it in polished plastic seems to get rid of this at the expense of dulling some of the sharper features. (eg: the mask code) That being said, I think injection moulding might still be  a better option, if not cheaper.

 

I also forgot to mention is that, at least with the home-grade 3D printer that I'm familiar with, I don't think you can do multiple colors.


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This seems pretty interesting. Also, just so you guys know, you can get your own 3D printer. They'd probably take 5 to 7 hours to print something the size of the mask, unless it's almost paper thin. The bad thing is that the area where the model is touching the plane that the printer is printing on might have a grill pattern, but you can remove that.

 

Under most cases, the prints I've made do have something of a grain to them anyways just because of the way 3D printing works. However ordering it in polished plastic seems to get rid of this at the expense of dulling some of the sharper features. (eg: the mask code) That being said, I think injection moulding might still be  a better option, if not cheaper.

 

I also forgot to mention is that, at least with the home-grade 3D printer that I'm familiar with, I don't think you can do multiple colors.

 

 

Nor can you do that with Shapeways. The backpack isn't being made in three pieces just because. They need to be dyed separately. :P


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Here's the things you need to be aware of:

 

1. Some companies are really stingy about money exchanging hands for fan projects like this. Square Enix would be a very popular and topical example. I realize that you aren't "making a profit", persay, but you also have to realize that exchanging money for any kind of work like this is already enterring a very grey area, one that LEGO lawyers might see prudent to stop now.

 

2. Logos are also a big deal. Here's the thing: LEGO is legally obligated to protect their trademark. It's not really a matter of choice in a lot of cases. For one, that logo represents their brand. Bearing that logo is like having an official seal of quality from the company itself, and this is a product they do not have any control over. Secondly, if they were to let this slide, it is also possible that in a future lawsuit, someone can point to this case as being a time when LEGO did not in fact enforce its trademark. This kind of thing sets presidence, and can be used to erode a company's hold on their trademark altogether. Obviously, LEGO does not want that to happen, and that is easily the type of thing that leads to a C&D.

 

Companies usually tend to let fanstuff fly because they just generate goodwill among the fans for the company. BUT, when money starts changing hands, you start getting into very very grey legal waters, especially when you start using official branding and trademarks from another person to "sell" your product.

 

Like I said, I realize that, in theory, you aren't actually making any money. But it's the fact that someone is giving you money for something with the LEGO seals and logos on it at all in exchange for a product that isn't entirely your own that's going to fault you here. Even though you're just breaking even, that's still an money transaction that's being made. You've nicely sidestepped the CD-Rom issue by just providing a blank disc, but suffice to say that disc cover could be very troublesome.

 

(Also probably not the wisest idea to use the ERSB logos for something like this too; RP kind of implies that this game has been sent to the board. It's another branding/trademark thing. I doubt you'd get the same type of attention from them as you would LEGO, but that's something to be aware of).

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Companies usually tend to let fanstuff fly because they just generate goodwill among the fans for the company. BUT, when money starts changing hands, you start getting into very very grey legal waters, especially when you start using official branding and trademarks from another person to "sell" your product.

 

Since we'll be selling so few of these (likely under 100 copies unless our predictions are wrong) I honestly don't think this will be on their radar at all, as in they won't even take notice of it. If they did, the worst that could happen is they send a C&D. However, we actually have thought over the branding issue quite a bit, and we're basically looking for another loophole like the one we figured out for the disc. (We're totally open for suggestions. :P) I do appreciate the advice here, it's definitely got us thinking a bit more over how we will do this. 

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...(Also probably not the wisest idea to use the ERSB logos for something like this too; RP kind of implies that this game has been sent to the board. It's another branding/trademark thing. I doubt you'd get the same type of attention from them as you would LEGO, but that's something to be aware of).

 

I should also add that the artwork in the first post does not represent anything final, (though for the most part it is very close to it) and is open to any changes that may become necessary in the near or distant future should any legal issue arise for whatever reason. I agree that it is somewhat of a gray area, but not something that can't be sidestepped in a similar manner as the disk should it be necessary to do so.

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You could always change the Lego logo into a red square that says "LOGO". :P Would making the case and CD art available to print off of the internet make it less of a grey area?

 

Will the models for the 3D printed items be available for free with the game? There may be some people that have 3D printers at their disposal to print their own pieces, eliminating the need to pay Shapeways and the cost of shipping.

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This is a bit of a tricky area. If you include the logo, you might get in trouble for using the Lego logo to sell your product. If you don't, you might get in trouble for redistributing Lego's merchandise as your own. Have you contacted Lego about the project yet?

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You could always change the Lego logo into a red square that says "LOGO". :P Would making the case and CD art available to print off of the internet make it less of a grey area?

 

Will the models for the 3D printed items be available for free with the game? There may be some people that have 3D printers at their disposal to print their own pieces, eliminating the need to pay Shapeways and the cost of shipping.

 

Given that we're not making a profit, I guess if push comes to shove we could just offer the artwork for download. It would be a pity though to be forced to do that since not everybody has something like a UPS Store nearby. (That's where I'm getting the current copies printed off)

 

The models will likely not be distributed. After all, why buy our bundle when one can just upload the models to Shapeways themselves?

 

This is a bit of a tricky area. If you include the logo, you might get in trouble for using the Lego logo to sell your product. If you don't, you might get in trouble for redistributing Lego's merchandise as your own. Have you contacted Lego about the project yet?

 

Lego has not yet been contacted mainly because there is never a direct line of communication that can be easily established. Everything is just responded to by an automated system with no actual person behind it. The only people we've contacted regarding the project in the past or present is Templar.


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Note: nobody is paying them, they are donating to them. If you donate 30$ or more you receive a complementary game. If not then you can download it for free. To avoid the trade mark part, why don't you just completely drop the word "BIONICLE" from the artwork and put "Mata-Nui Online Game: Collectors Edition" that way, no trademarks are used and everyone is happy. If you really must place the word Bionicleon it, then make a disk sticker and put it up for download on your site. That way the person can just print it out for themself and place it on the disk that you send them.

This is a bit of a tricky area. If you include the logo, you might get in trouble for using the Lego logo to sell your product. If you don't, you might get in trouble for redistributing Lego's merchandise as your own. Have you contacted Lego about the project yet?

Its Templars modded product

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Tried to find you on KickStarter, but you ain't anywhere to be seen!!??

It's not on Kickstarter, it's right on this thread. For some reason.

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Tried to find you on KickStarter, but you ain't anywhere to be seen!!??

It's not on Kickstarter, it's right on this thread. For some reason.

 

It's here for the moment mainly because XONAR wanted to see if he could get a front page story here to generate some interest that way. After I get back this Monday, I'll probably help him put together an actual Kickstarter page as well as have a finalized render of the backpack to show off. 

Edited by Vahkiti: Time Guardian

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May I suggest that folks who donate the higher amounts receive CDs that already have the game burned on it? It would probably not be very many CDs to burn since it's for a select number of people, and it would be a nice convenience for 'em, and would be another thing to add to the list of perks :) Oh! I meant to ask, what about MNOG II? Does that get any love? 

I'm a Computer Art major and am experienced in designing videogame packaging-- box art, pamphlets, legal guff, cartridge/CD art, the whole shebang-- and also video editing and logo animation and all that jazz, so I'd be happy to help out if you ever need it ^^ (Whoops, I can't read, my bad :P I'll send a PM.) But it sounds like you've got a good thing going already and it looks like you've made a lot of good progress, so I'm just excited for this to come out! I'll definitely put aside some money for donation next time pay day rolls around.

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What exactly would the collector's edition be 

 

The last time I checked, there was an original post on this thread that explains the entire project, but who knows?

 

 

May I suggest that folks who donate the higher amounts receive CDs that already have the game burned on it? It would probably not be very many CDs to burn since it's for a select number of people, and it would be a nice convenience for 'em, and would be another thing to add to the list of perks :) Oh! I meant to ask, what about MNOG II? Does that get any love? 

 

That's a possibility that we'll certainly consider! As for MNOLG II, it doesn't actually "need" as much love as MNOLG as far as remastering, but hey, you never know. ;) I definitely can envision some really cool things we could do with it. At this point it depends on the success of this project, I suppose.

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May I suggest that folks who donate the higher amounts receive CDs that already have the game burned on it? It would probably not be very many CDs to burn since it's for a select number of people, and it would be a nice convenience for 'em, and would be another thing to add to the list of perks  :) Oh! I meant to ask, what about MNOG II? Does that get any love? 

 

That's a possibility that we'll certainly consider! As for MNOLG II, it doesn't actually "need" as much love as MNOLG as far as remastering, but hey, you never know. ;) I definitely can envision some really cool things we could do with it. At this point it depends on the success of this project, I suppose.

 

Honestly, the only thing that really needs remastering in MNOLG II is Nixie's hut. After Templar lost the files, they were... haphazardly restored by the BZP community. Evidently nobody at the time had much of a sense of quality since the entire area is filled with jpeg artifacts and may or may not actually be an SVG image, I haven't checked it out in some time. Point is, it looks like poo and nobody but myself seems to care. :P

 

EDIT: We're working on adding the UDD symbol to the front just as an extra little detail, but in the meantime, this is the FINAL render of Takua's backpack. Thoughts?

 

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Has a backpack been molded yet to check for size and fit? The picture looks good, but it isn't in model form yet. And ya never know what can happen until then.


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Has a backpack been molded yet to check for size and fit? The picture looks good, but it isn't in model form yet. And ya never know what can happen until then.

 

No, it hasn't been printed yet. I'm not sure when I'll be able to print a copy because of moving expenses this month. The prototypes always come out of my or XONAR's pocket. 


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any ideas when you might launch the kickstarter? looks amazing, cant wait!

 

I'll try and get a hold of XONAR about it today or tomorrow.


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What are the advantages of utilizing an injection mold machine over using RTV/silicone glove molds and casting by hand?

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What are the advantages of utilizing an injection mold machine over using RTV/silicone glove molds and casting by hand?

 

I'm pretty sure that Injection molds wield much cleaner results, are easier to use and work faster.

Every part that comes out of a silicone mold would have to be cleaned up by hand, getting a good looking finished piece like that can take quite a while


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What are the advantages of utilizing an injection mold machine over using RTV/silicone glove molds and casting by hand?

chance of getting air bubbles in the cast would be high even if you did use a pressure pot

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any ideas when you might launch the kickstarter? looks amazing, cant wait!

 

We're waiting on approval for an Amazon Payments account currently. That will take about 7 days,but after that, we'll be ready to launch it. Until then, we have a PayPal donation button on the first post. :)

 

 

Can't wait! Can we get any sneak peeks at the game or sound track please?

 

When Ta-Wahi is completely finished (soon :P), we'll post a video update about it. 

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How long will we be able to donate? 
I'd love to help out, but I'm missing the cash at the moment. :/

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