Matoran in Metru Nui

[Elissa]

I often think about the construction of the Matoran bodies in Metru Nui. If you look at the Toa Metru in their Matoran forms, at least in LoMN, they were loads different than their other Matoran cohorts (compare to the Matoran in the Coliseum shots), and I wonder what made these six unlike the others. I don't think it would have been "destiny" per se, because they weren't really destined to be Toa in the first place. 

 

And along the same lines, why did no other Matoran continue have the same mask styles as the Toa Metru's Matoran selves on Mata Nui, or otherwise in Metru Nui. As we know, they share the same twelve or so masks. (Did they just not know what those masks did because they'd never been worn on a Toa?)

 

And I recognize that in terms of the movie, it may have been laziness and rendering stuff, but there was obviously some carry-over (in either direction) between the style of Jaller in MoL and the Matoran in the Coliseum, and then the Toa Metru's Matoran forms, who looked nothing like Jaller's body. 

 

Food for thought.

 

Edited July 14, 2014 by Elissa

[Zox Tomana]

I don't think it would have been "destiny" per se, because they weren't really destined to be Toa in the first place.

What makes you think that? Being destined to become a Toa is a prerequisite for becoming one. There was a space in the storyline where they were told they weren't the destined Toa, but that was revealed as a ruse perpetrated by Mata Nui.

[Elissa]

 

I don't think it would have been "destiny" per se, because they weren't really destined to be Toa in the first place.

What makes you think that? Being destined to become a Toa is a prerequisite for becoming one. There was a space in the storyline where they were told they weren't the destined Toa, but that was revealed as a ruse perpetrated by Mata Nui.

 

 

That was besides the point. I'm also missing parts of the story because I'm really behind so I haven't gotten to that point. In terms of the novels, I'm halfway through Time Trap. Annnywayyy:

 

It was argued elsewhere that main characters get fancier getups, but then I again raise you a Nuhrii. According to BSO1 he had a Kaukau, but his set had the Ruru.

[The 1st Shadow]

 

 

I don't think it would have been "destiny" per se, because they weren't really destined to be Toa in the first place.

What makes you think that? Being destined to become a Toa is a prerequisite for becoming one. There was a space in the storyline where they were told they weren't the destined Toa, but that was revealed as a ruse perpetrated by Mata Nui.

 

 

That was besides the point. I'm also missing parts of the story because I'm really behind so I haven't gotten to that point. In terms of the novels, I'm halfway through Time Trap. Annnywayyy:

 

It was argued elsewhere that main characters get fancier getups, but then I again raise you a Nuhrii. According to BSO1 he had a Kaukau, but his set had the Ruru.

 

In MNOG 2, Nuhrii had a black Kaukau. BS01 got a layout-update some while back, so you're just seeing the panel that shows his Mata Nui form. Click the Metru Nui tab above his picture and it will show that he wore a Ruru on Metru Nui. The only reason it shows that is because that's what he currently looks like.

 

As for why Vakama and Co. looked different, it was just convenience on the part of the movie-makers. They already had dozens of stock-Matoran figures from the first movie--why animate dozens of new ones when you can just briefly show the ones you already have? That was the reason. Story-wise, all of the Matoran in LoMN looked just like those six.

 

[Makuta Miras]

Erm... I hate to break this to you, Elissa, but Nuhrii/Nuri got that Kaukau on Mata Nui. The Ruru was his original mask. Plus Nuhrii's Kaukau only appeared in the MNOG II (2003). The Ruru came in 2004.

[Elissa]

Hey, I don't mind being proven wrong

[Oroki]

This is probably a choice made by the graphic designer to make the main characters stand out. But we have no reason to believe that there is one universal matoran build either.

 

And I recognize that in terms of the movie, it may have been laziness and rendering stuff, but there was obviously some carry-over (in either direction) between the style of Jaller in MoL and the Matoran in the Coliseum, and then the Toa Metru's Matoran forms, who looked nothing like Jaller's body.

Jallers body was different from the Metruan because the commune build of the matoran changed twice canonically. The matoran pods changed them, and shortly before MoL they were rebuilt (how they did that, beats me).

[bonesiii]

If you look at the Toa Metru in their Matoran forms, at least in LoMN, they were loads different than their other Matoran cohorts

Like The 1st Shadow said, that was just movie budget. Matoran body shapes are one of the things you have to take with a grain of salt in the movies, unfortunately. The set Metruan have a dramatically different design than both movie forms of Matoran. The MOL/generic movie form is pretty close to the set rebuilt Matoran of 2003, though, and at least the destined-to-be-Toa-Metru upper torso armor resembles the Metru Matoran set form. I suspect the MOLtoran are canon for rebuilt, while the "real canon" of the Metruan would probably be something between Matoran Vakama/etc. and the set Metruan.

 

I don't think it would have been "destiny" per se, because they weren't really destined to be Toa in the first place.

That's not how it works. If you're not destined to be a Toa, you can't become one. You're thinking of the double-fooling trick, where Makuta was planning to trick Lhikan into giving Toa Stones to the wrong Matoran, but Mata Nui tricked Makuta into picking the right ones as the wrong ones. Makuta salvaged that by later trying to fool the Toa Metru into thinking they were the wrong Toa after all, to discourage and distract them, but it was a lie, as they later discovered.

 

And along the same lines, why did no other Matoran continue have the same mask styles as the Toa Metru's Matoran selves on Mata Nui, or otherwise in Metru Nui.

Movie budgets and the set influence in some cases. But it's not accurate to say that NO others had those masks, only that we didn't see any that did (we only saw a smallish fraction of the 1000 Metru/Mata Nui Matoran -- and no, the generic ones thrown in the backgrounds of the Coliseum and Kolhii Stadium are not canon).

 

And I recognize that in terms of the movie, it may have been laziness and rendering stuff

It wasn't laziness -- it was budget and time. They only had a year to make the movies in -- considering that, they did extraordinary jobs, for movies invented to sell plastic toys. If you bother with all those side details, you do get a higher quality movie, but you have to pay somebody to do it in an official company-made movie for profit, and you have to pay them enough to get them to do it fast enough.

 

If you just mean "laziness" as a non-literal way to say all that, though, then yes.

 

 

Zox the Arendelle Fox, on 14 Jul 2014 - 1:40 PM, said:

 Elissa, on 14 Jul 2014 - 1:03 PM, said:

I don't think it would have been "destiny" per se, because they weren't really destined to be Toa in the first place.

What makes you think that? Being destined to become a Toa is a prerequisite for becoming one. There was a space in the storyline where they were told they weren't the destined Toa, but that was revealed as a ruse perpetrated by Mata Nui.

 

That was besides the point. I'm also missing parts of the story because I'm really behind so I haven't gotten to that point. In terms of the novels, I'm halfway through Time Trap. Annnywayyy:

Maybe my above more detailed answer has already cleared this up, but what do you mean by "besides the point" here? Zox's answer means that the statement he quoted there is incorrect. You're actually right that the destiny reasoning is irrelevant since canonically all Metruan had the same body shape, but not sure if you knew that yet at the point you said this. Anywho.

 

The real reason it wouldn't be destiny for Toa-izing is that destined Matoran can't be determined by appearance, and if they could, it's possible the double (really triple) fooling trick couldn't have been possible (unless Ahkmou and company are also destined... -- but for a different time/circumstance). Destined Matoran would know who they are their whole lives, and that's not how it works. The differences are subtle personality clues only -- well, that and a tiny amount of Toa Energy already in them, but you can't see that.

 

Hope that helps.

 

shortly before MoL they were rebuilt (how they did that, beats me).

Take apart the old, put together the new.

Edited July 14, 2014 by bonesiii

[Elissa]

 

If you look at the Toa Metru in their Matoran forms, at least in LoMN, they were loads different than their other Matoran cohorts

Like The 1st Shadow said, that was just movie budget. Matoran body shapes are one of the things you have to take with a grain of salt in the movies, unfortunately. The set Metruan have a dramatically different design than both movie forms of Matoran. The MOL/generic movie form is pretty close to the set rebuilt Matoran of 2003, though, and at least the destined-to-be-Toa-Metru upper torso armor resembles the Metru Matoran set form. I suspect the MOLtoran are canon for rebuilt, while the "real canon" of the Metruan would probably be something between Matoran Vakama/etc. and the set Metruan.

 

I don't think it would have been "destiny" per se, because they weren't really destined to be Toa in the first place.

That's not how it works. If you're not destined to be a Toa, you can't become one. You're thinking of the double-fooling trick, where Makuta was planning to trick Lhikan into giving Toa Stones to the wrong Matoran, but Mata Nui tricked Makuta into picking the right ones as the wrong ones. Makuta salvaged that by later trying to fool the Toa Metru into thinking they were the wrong Toa after all, to discourage and distract them, but it was a lie, as they later discovered.

 

And along the same lines, why did no other Matoran continue have the same mask styles as the Toa Metru's Matoran selves on Mata Nui, or otherwise in Metru Nui.

Movie budgets and the set influence in some cases. But it's not accurate to say that NO others had those masks, only that we didn't see any that did (we only saw a smallish fraction of the 1000 Metru/Mata Nui Matoran -- and no, the generic ones thrown in the backgrounds of the Coliseum and Kolhii Stadium are not canon).

 

And I recognize that in terms of the movie, it may have been laziness and rendering stuff

It wasn't laziness -- it was budget and time. They only had a year to make the movies in -- considering that, they did extraordinary jobs, for movies invented to sell plastic toys. If you bother with all those side details, you do get a higher quality movie, but you have to pay somebody to do it in an official company-made movie for profit, and you have to pay them enough to get them to do it fast enough.

 

If you just mean "laziness" as a non-literal way to say all that, though, then yes.

 

 

Zox the Arendelle Fox, on 14 Jul 2014 - 1:40 PM, said:

 Elissa, on 14 Jul 2014 - 1:03 PM, said:

I don't think it would have been "destiny" per se, because they weren't really destined to be Toa in the first place.

What makes you think that? Being destined to become a Toa is a prerequisite for becoming one. There was a space in the storyline where they were told they weren't the destined Toa, but that was revealed as a ruse perpetrated by Mata Nui.

 

That was besides the point. I'm also missing parts of the story because I'm really behind so I haven't gotten to that point. In terms of the novels, I'm halfway through Time Trap. Annnywayyy:

Maybe my above more detailed answer has already cleared this up, but what do you mean by "besides the point" here? Zox's answer means that the statement he quoted there is incorrect. You're actually right that the destiny reasoning is irrelevant since canonically all Metruan had the same body shape, but not sure if you knew that yet at the point you said this. Anywho.

 

The real reason it wouldn't be destiny for Toa-izing is that destined Matoran can't be determined by appearance, and if they could, it's possible the double (really triple) fooling trick couldn't have been possible (unless Ahkmou and company are also destined... -- but for a different time/circumstance). Destined Matoran would know who they are their whole lives, and that's not how it works. The differences are subtle personality clues only -- well, that and a tiny amount of Toa Energy already in them, but you can't see that.

 

Hope that helps.

 

shortly before MoL they were rebuilt (how they did that, beats me).

Take apart the old, put together the new.

 

Yep, all cleared up. I feel enlightened, and perhaps also slightly stupid for asking such a silly question

 

For the record, that comment about "laziness" was what i meant by budget and time constraints. 

Edited July 14, 2014 by Elissa

[Zox Tomana]

That was besides the point. I'm also missing parts of the story because I'm really behind so I haven't gotten to that point. In terms of the novels, I'm halfway through Time Trap. Annnywayyy:

 

It was argued elsewhere that main characters get fancier getups, but then I again raise you a Nuhrii. According to BSO1 he had a Kaukau, but his set had the Ruru.

Whoops! Uh.... spoilers! =/

 

 

shortly before MoL they were rebuilt (how they did that, beats me).

Take apart the old, put together the new.

 

When you're Biomechanical, and mostly mechanical, you can do crazy things =D

[PutYaGunsOn]

Honestly, I think the Toa Metru's Matoran masks looked the way they did purely for artistic purposes.  It's like saying "their masks are gonna look like this anyway for the rest of the movie, might as well get used to 'em now."