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Why create a world?


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I think this idea came up before, but I'm having trouble finding the correct topic discussing it.

 

Anyway, why did the Great Beings create a whole world if they had no intention of the Matoran becoming conscious beings? Did they simply create the whole world for the sake of making cool stuff or...?

 

Along these same lines, at what point did beings in the MU gain consciousness that the Great Beings were unable to notice it? It's said that Helryx helped in creating the foundation of Metru-Nui, so was this the work of pre-consciousness Helryx, or did she gain her mentality after the Great Spirit Robot left Spherus Magna?

 

These are just two quick questions that probably have easy answers, so thank you for whatever you can help me dig up. =]

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The main theory that is given to this common question is to help conceal the true nature of the Matoran Universe, lest any "glitching" maintenance workers think of taking it over. Undoubtedly another factor is to support the organic components -- plants to recycle the air, water to drink and grow plants, etc.

 

Incidentally, I don't know that "conscious being" would be a good synonym for full sapience. A dog isn't sapient, but is conscious (when not unconscious :P). That sounds more like a synonym for sentient, which is used in Bionicle canon to refer to animals too.

 

We don't know the exact date of the full sapience, but Greg has said they weren't yet fully sapient when the Toa Nuva were in Karda Nui fighting the Avohkah. Of course, even if it existed while the Great Beings other than Velika were still inside, they would likely not notice, as the main way Angonce later noticed was by developed culture (and behaviors caused by that), which takes time, and they would be too busy at first putting finishing touches on the giant's interior to think of inventing extra culture.

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The main theory that is given to this common question is to help conceal the true nature of the Matoran Universe, lest any "glitching" maintenance workers think of taking it over. Undoubtedly another factor is to support the organic components -- plants to recycle the air, water to drink and grow plants, etc.

 

That makes sense. Just in case something happened that one member of the universe somehow became sapient, they wouldn't be able to realize automatically that their world was actually a super-robot. And since the Matoran, sapient or not, would have needed food, water, and air to function, it makes sense that the Great Beings would need to build an ecosystem so things could continue running.

 

Incidentally, I don't know that "conscious being" would be a good synonym for full sapience. A dog isn't sapient, but is conscious (when not unconscious  :P). That sounds more like a synonym for sentient, which is used in Bionicle canon to refer to animals too.

 

Yeah, sorry about that, you're right. Sapient is more what I meant, thanks. =]

 

 

We don't know the exact date of the full sapience, but Greg has said they weren't yet fully sapient when the Toa Nuva were in Karda Nui fighting the Avohkah. Of course, even if it existed while the Great Beings other than Velika were still inside, they would likely not notice, as the main way Angonce later noticed was by developed culture (and behaviors caused by that), which takes time, and they would be too busy at first putting finishing touches on the giant's interior to think of inventing extra culture. 

 

Woah, I didn't know their incomplete sapience extended so far back. Good to know. Thanks Bonesii.

 

Is there any other speculation as to why they created things the way they did outside of these ideas?

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There were other sapient beings like the Makuta, Artahka, etc, so it would make sense for them to have a world as a reference. Otherwise, they could figure out that they were in a robot, and that could be bad. :shrugs:

 

Also they probably made it big in case Mata Nui needed to create more new things inside of his body. Creations require space. 

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I know its really tedious by now to respond with "because of horrible writing that lacks any kind of foresight for the sake of a half-baked twist", but...

 

You know.

 

Sometimes there are certain realities you have to confront.

Edited by SarracenianKaijin

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Reach Heaven by Violence.

 

And while you are at it, see Bionicle characters as Magical Girls.

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I know its really tedious by now to respond with "because of horrible writing that lacks any kind of foresight for the sake of a half-baked twist", but...

 

You know.

 

Sometimes there are certain realities you have to confront.

Yo, in universe bro. Just sayin'

 

Anyways, bonesii and fishers pretty much covered everything, but I want to ask this for clarification: while it was said that the Matoran were not supposed to be sapient, does this extend to other beings as well? Beings such as Helryx, Hydraxon, the Mata/Nuva, and others who were around pre-robot days looked pretty sapient from their appearances.

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but I want to ask this for clarification: while it was said that the Matoran were not supposed to be sapient, does this extend to other beings as well? Beings such as Helryx, Hydraxon, the Mata/Nuva, and others who were around pre-robot days looked pretty sapient from their appearances.

I was under the impression the Great Beings did not know they could create artificial sapience -- Angonce's comment when he discovered it seems to imply this (as I recall, anyways). I thought whatever made the Matoran sapient made them all sapient (including even Mata Nui, apparently). I guess artificial sapience would now be Velika's invention. I might have that wrong, though.

 

Note: Greg did say they were partially sapient, though (that's why we describe what they got as full sapience when we're being more technical; Greg said that one, though I dunno if he still holds to it, as he usually just says sapience now). It's possible the GBs did believe that partial sapience (or whatever Greg would call what they had; maybe "smart sentience") might be enough to think of a takeover, though likeisay, it isn't necessary, as a glitching AI could think of that too. (Or stumble onto it... I'm thinking of someone in Portal lol -- but spoilers).

 

Anyways, to the last bit of your question, Greg's answer to the question about how Takua seemed sapient answers this. Lemme see if I can dig this up... There, that was an easy search...

 

https://community.lego.com/t5/LEGO-General/Chat-with-Greg-Farshtey/m-p/10117043/highlight/true#M236600

 

And that seemingly answers my question about what Greg considers what they got... He put it like this:

 

I have not said they aren't sapient. What I have said is that they and their society were following pre-programmed behaviors

He actually has said that they obtained sapience at a later date, but I guess this was meant to confirm he didn't mean they lacked everything that goes with sapience (so had partial sapience), that those statements were just meant as summaries for convenience. :shrugs:

Edited by bonesiii

The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive)Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants

My Bionicle Fanfiction  (Google Drive folder, eventually planned to have PDFs of all of it)

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I know its really tedious by now to respond with "because of horrible writing that lacks any kind of foresight for the sake of a half-baked twist", but...

 

You know.

 

Sometimes there are certain realities you have to confront.

Yo, in universe bro. Just sayin'

 

 

You can put in any number of unconnected random "in-universe" excuses, but it won't fill the actual real hole that the writing has left, and shouldn't be filled because that would simply be disingenuous.

Edited by SarracenianKaijin
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hereheis.gif

 

--------------

 

Reach Heaven by Violence.

 

And while you are at it, see Bionicle characters as Magical Girls.

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Well aside from the obviose reason that bioncle wouldnt have sold if they wernt sentient. I think that after mata nui was launched things started to go wrong and the people inside couldnt handle them, So as a backup mata nui gave them all consisnence so they could react to differt problems instead of just doing what they were supposed to. Also that is why they worshiped mata nui instead of the great beings beacause mata nui was the one that gave them "life"

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As long as there is one bionicle fan out there there is still hope for bionicle to return. Keep faith. Bionicle is amazing.

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GBs love creating. It's like their favorite thing. I guess they were not satisfied only in creating a giant dude, they had to create an entire univese inside of him, because you know, they love creating stuff.

 

However, I believe Matoran(and by extent other species) creating vasts and complex cultures were not intentional. It was kind of an accident because they were developed so well by their creators. 

Edited by HoloTheWise
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GBs love creating. It's like their favorite thing. I guess they were not satisfied only in creating a giant dude, they had to create an entire univese inside of him, because you know, they love creating stuff.

 

However, I believe Matoran(and by extent other species) creating vasts and complex cultures were not intentional. It was kind of an accident because they were developed so well by their creators. 

First Paragraph

 

Then what on earth is (that certain GB) doing, murdering everybody? Although it is obvious that if they didn't like creating they wouldn't have created anything at all, but I think we all need to remember that the Great Beings are a incredibly diverse (not to mention slightly numerous) group and we can't start generalizing to much.

 

Second Paragraph.

 

Yes. True Dat. It was all a accident,which maybe is the reason for the killings but anyways I too think its interesting that they accidently created a vast and complex culture.

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GBs love creating. It's like their favorite thing. I guess they were not satisfied only in creating a giant dude, they had to create an entire univese inside of him, because you know, they love creating stuff.

 

However, I believe Matoran(and by extent other species) creating vasts and complex cultures were not intentional. It was kind of an accident because they were developed so well by their creators. 

First Paragraph

 

Then what on earth is (that certain GB) doing, murdering everybody? Although it is obvious that if they didn't like creating they wouldn't have created anything at all, but I think we all need to remember that the Great Beings are a incredibly diverse (not to mention slightly numerous) group and we can't start generalizing to much.

 

Second Paragraph.

 

Yes. True Dat. It was all a accident,which maybe is the reason for the killings but anyways I too think its interesting that they accidently created a vast and complex culture.

 

 

You talk like Velika is on a mass murder rampage  :blink: He's killing those who are very powerful only.

 

Well, I guess he's a megalomaniac and wants the world to himself. It's interesting to notice how different Velika is from the others GBs.

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In an alternate timeline in Brothers In Arms, Mazeka and Vultraz were greeted by a council of six Great Beings (which included the four individuals specified in the core dimension). This image depicts seven, but it is highly stylized in any case and may not portray an actual moment of canon. Depending on how you interpret this one, there may be many more, but those specks may also be Matoran and/or Agori.

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-- Harlan Ellison

 

 

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Does this work?
 

Finally, the Great Beings do not have inherent powers. (We already knew this, but I thought it'd be good to have a clear and concise source.)
 

 

Do individual Great Beings have tremendous power, or do they simply make powerful things?

To our knowledge, they do not have natural powers

 

They probably do have really advanced technology though. 

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...Both of you are merely repeating what I already said in my earlier post. Six Great Beings were depicted in Brothers In Arms, yes, and three Great Beings were shown in that Mata Nui Saga image.  :annoyed:

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"You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant."
-- Harlan Ellison

 

 

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Oops, missed that post. :sleepy:   :smash:

But yeah, more on topic, I think the essential reason that the Great Beings created such a intricate world inside Mata Nui is that they just wanted to create (awesome) stuff. I mean, The Mask of Life helped power Mata Nui's slightly smaller suit, why didn't they just make a bunch of those to power the MU, who needs a bunch of micro bots. IDK, I just wish we had more information as a wholeon the GBs.

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Oops, missed that post. :sleepy:   :smash:

But yeah, more on topic, I think the essential reason that the Great Beings created such a intricate world inside Mata Nui is that they just wanted to create (awesome) stuff. I mean, The Mask of Life helped power Mata Nui's slightly smaller suit, why didn't they just make a bunch of those to power the MU, who needs a bunch of micro bots. IDK, I just wish we had more information as a wholeon the GBs.

Um, the Mask of Life was really hard to forge, and it accidentally turned one of their number insane. I'm not sure they would want multiples of those, considering the amount of power each has, and the fact that each are alive and have their own mind.

 

Seriously, one of them could just kill all the rest of its cousins. Or they could fight and tear the universe apart with the living things they made. That's only two of the myriad ways that could be a disaster waiting to happen. 

Edited by fishers64
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