Fragile Pieces

[TERIDAX941]

Forgive me if this topic has already been created, I'm not 100% sure if it had or not.

 

Does anyone know exactly why the joint and limb pieces of the bionicle characters from 2008 onward were so fragile? It cut down terribly on playability because you couldn't risk taking the guys apart to MOC or combo model like you could the old characters... was it the plastic, or just the design that was weaker?

[Aanchir]

Forgive me if this topic has already been created, I'm not 100% sure if it had or not.

 

Does anyone know exactly why the joint and limb pieces of the bionicle characters from 2008 onward were so fragile? It cut down terribly on playability because you couldn't risk taking the guys apart to MOC or combo model like you could the old characters... was it the plastic, or just the design that was weaker?

Just the design. The plastic has not changed noticeably since then. If you buy certain 2010, 2011, and even 2012 sets, you might find both the 2008–2010 joints and the newer 2011+ joints, and the earlier type will still be as brittle as ever.

 

As for WHY the design change made the pieces more brittle, I have no idea. Might have been meant to increase friction. That's the best guess I've ever been able to come up with.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Aanchir

[Taria Pakari]

As far as I'm aware the only fragile pieces were the limb green ones. Never had any trouble with other pieces myself.

[Toa Of Anarchy]

Agh! I remember the great sorrows that would come upon me whenever I would break a vital arm to one of my (many) Heros. I remember this most during the 2006 Toa.

[Manducus]

2008 to 2012 were the worst years of my life. The joint pieces easily snapped at the slightest connection. Now I can't rebuild many of my sets thanks to this issue.

[Master Inika]

I believe it was LEGO trying to make joints with greater friction, but with the unseen disadvantage of brittleness. This has been fixed as of 2011, with the 2.0 Hero sets having holes in their balls to relieve pressure for the sockets.

[Aanchir]

I believe it was LEGO trying to make joints with greater friction, but with the unseen disadvantage of brittleness. This has been fixed as of 2011, with the 2.0 Hero sets having holes in their balls to relieve pressure for the sockets.

Well, it's still possible for an old-style ball cup to snap on the new HF ball pieces (as I've unfortunately experienced with some of the Glatorian heads from the Breakout series). The bigger factor in relieving this issue was the redesign of the ball cup, with thicker supports and some other improvements. The new ball cups can no longer accept a Technic axle through the circular holes due to the thicker supports, but they're still a HUGE improvement over the designs we saw between 2008 and 2010. In fact, I've found them to be more reliable than many of my 2001–2007 ball cups, some of which are finally breaking or losing their friction after all these years.

[Ballom Nom Nom]

 

Forgive me if this topic has already been created, I'm not 100% sure if it had or not.

 

Does anyone know exactly why the joint and limb pieces of the bionicle characters from 2008 onward were so fragile? It cut down terribly on playability because you couldn't risk taking the guys apart to MOC or combo model like you could the old characters... was it the plastic, or just the design that was weaker?

Just the design. The plastic has not changed noticeably since then. If you buy certain 2010, 2011, and even 2012 sets, you might find both the 2008–2010 joints and the newer 2011+ joints, and the earlier type will still be as brittle as ever.

 

As for WHY the design change made the pieces more brittle, I have no idea. Might have been meant to increase friction. That's the best guess I've ever been able to come up with.

 

I think friction was definitely the reason, since all of my 2008-2010 pieces which didn't break yield much tighter connections than other sockets. In fact, there's enough friction that in some cases even when broken by a small fracture the parts can still hold a connection.

 

~B~

[TERIDAX941]

 

I think friction was definitely the reason, since all of my 2008-2010 pieces which didn't break yield much tighter connections than other sockets. In fact, there's enough friction that in some cases even when broken by a small fracture the parts can still hold a connection.

 

~B~

 

I have experience that too especially with my Vorox. He's as tight as ever can be... that and Radiak... that poor little guy has had more than his fair share in cracked limbs but he's hanging together... I just fear he'll just collapse sooner or later...

[Toa Kayn]

All my ball cups are fine except on of my MOC's "ankles". I just make it so he has an injury or something

[Ballom Nom Nom]

 

 

 

I think friction was definitely the reason, since all of my 2008-2010 pieces which didn't break yield much tighter connections than other sockets. In fact, there's enough friction that in some cases even when broken by a small fracture the parts can still hold a connection.

 

~B~

 

I have experience that too especially with my Vorox. He's as tight as ever can be... that and Radiak... that poor little guy has had more than his fair share in cracked limbs but he's hanging together... I just fear he'll just collapse sooner or later...

 

Another thing relating to the cracked pieces is that once a single crack occurs, it seems to relieve pressure and thereby avoid further breaking, leaving the part intact overall. The only time I've had socket sections break off entirely is on Glatorian Mata Nui, which means most of these parts can be preserved for a use requiring limited friction.

 

~B~

[TakuaNova]

I only broke my Hahli Mahri's joints, a shame really.. But other than that, I think I broke 1 of the Kra-Matoran feet... 

[Zidonaro]

These fragile pieces began in 2006 I believe. My poor Hewkii and Thok  So I believe it was a drop in the quality of the plastic.

[TERIDAX941]

These fragile pieces began in 2006 I believe. My poor Hewkii and Thok  So I believe it was a drop in the quality of the plastic.

Mmm well mostly... we took those piraka apart and together often, and they didn't really fracture until later on (poor Zaktan... we disassembled him over and over again because of his "condition") but the others were okay for a bit... but yeah, it started then.

[Aanchir]

These fragile pieces began in 2006 I believe. My poor Hewkii and Thok  So I believe it was a drop in the quality of the plastic.

Are you sure? Which pieces from those sets broke? Because from my experience, the 7M double ball cup had issues with fragility from the time it was introduced in 2005, while single ball cups and 5M double ball cups didn't have any issues in new sets except for the Bright Yellowish Green ("Lime Green") ones in 2007.

 

Take note that the 7M double ball cup has always had plenty of traits in common with the ones from 2008 and later, such as the lack of holes on the side to relieve stress and the rounded edge around the cross axle holes. Perhaps these were a factor in the part's fragility? The holes in the sides of the older single ball cups and 5M double ball cups may have reduced stress when assembling and disassembling a part.

[Vahkiti Master of Time]

Best I can recall, 2006 is when the oil crisis began. Set prices as a result skyrocketed that year because plastic is a petroleum product. To save costs around 2007, I believe LEGO switched to a cheaper plastic supplier. This on top of the slight changes in part design made for a disastrous combination.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Vahkiti: Time Guardian

[Zidonaro]

 

These fragile pieces began in 2006 I believe. My poor Hewkii and Thok  So I believe it was a drop in the quality of the plastic.

Are you sure? Which pieces from those sets broke? Because from my experience, the 7M double ball cup had issues with fragility from the time it was introduced in 2005, while single ball cups and 5M double ball cups didn't have any issues in new sets except for the Bright Yellowish Green ("Lime Green") ones in 2007.

 

Take note that the 7M double ball cup has always had plenty of traits in common with the ones from 2008 and later, such as the lack of holes on the side to relieve stress and the rounded edge around the cross axle holes. Perhaps these were a factor in the part's fragility? The holes in the sides of the older single ball cups and 5M double ball cups may have reduced stress when assembling and disassembling a part.

Yes, it was the 7M double ball cups of Hewkii and Thok that broke. I never had Visorak so I can't talk about their quality.

[Aanchir]

Best I can recall, 2006 is when the oil crisis began. Set prices as a result skyrocketed that year because plastic is a petroleum product. To save costs around 2007, I believe LEGO switched to a cheaper plastic supplier. This on top of the slight changes in part design made for a disastrous combination.

Do we have any actual source for that or is it just speculation? I believe the LEGO Group is still using the same supplier they have been using for years, and have never heard anything to the contrary.

[Boidoh]

My 08' Kopaka Nuva has almost all joints broken. His legs are really loose and beggy.

My 08' Pohatu Nuva is in rock solid shape though. Nothing has broken, yet...

 

My Berix had to be super glued on almost every piece...

[fishers64]

My Berix had to be super glued on almost every piece...

Wait a minute, that references in-story irony...

 

Berix: "Well, I've had to patch myself up a few times."

[Vahkiti Master of Time]

 

Best I can recall, 2006 is when the oil crisis began. Set prices as a result skyrocketed that year because plastic is a petroleum product. To save costs around 2007, I believe LEGO switched to a cheaper plastic supplier. This on top of the slight changes in part design made for a disastrous combination.

Do we have any actual source for that or is it just speculation? I believe the LEGO Group is still using the same supplier they have been using for years, and have never heard anything to the contrary.

 

I don't recall where the info came from. It was told to me indirectly so take it with a grain of salt. It would make sense however since it was also around that time that colours began to change subtly for no reason. (eg: the grays became more pure with less green, some colours were retired entirely like Pohatu's shade of brown etc.) I'll have to look into it for the actual source.

[Boidoh]

 

My Berix had to be super glued on almost every piece...

Wait a minute, that references in-story irony...

 

Berix: "Well, I've had to patch myself up a few times."

 

 

Well now I don't feel too bad about all those super glued pieces on my Berix.

[Taria Pakari]

I've tried gluing pieces back together but it's never worked. Heck, gluing seemed to make the silver +o+ pieces on my Ussanui even more brittle and they just crumbled.

[Aanchir]

 

 

Best I can recall, 2006 is when the oil crisis began. Set prices as a result skyrocketed that year because plastic is a petroleum product. To save costs around 2007, I believe LEGO switched to a cheaper plastic supplier. This on top of the slight changes in part design made for a disastrous combination.

Do we have any actual source for that or is it just speculation? I believe the LEGO Group is still using the same supplier they have been using for years, and have never heard anything to the contrary.

 

I don't recall where the info came from. It was told to me indirectly so take it with a grain of salt. It would make sense however since it was also around that time that colours began to change subtly for no reason. (eg: the grays became more pure with less green, some colours were retired entirely like Pohatu's shade of brown etc.) I'll have to look into it for the actual source.

 

Most of those changes in colors you mention took place in 2004, actually. That was an entirely separate matter not related to the type of plastic changing. The LEGO Group was trying to streamline its color palette, which had started to expand out of control, and in the midst of that process they found that some of their colors looked dingy and not as bright or clean-looking as their classic reds, blues, yellows, etc. So a number of those colors were either replaced with newer and brighter colors or discontinued entirely.

 

During this time there was also another change that affected color quality. While the LEGO Group kept the same plastic supplier, they stopped using pre-colored plastic granulate and started using colorless plastic granulate combined with colored dye. I believe this is part of the reason why some 2004 and 2005 parts (for instance, some of my brother's Toa Hordika Onewa's Brown parts) were considerably discolored. The LEGO Group has since gotten their colors mostly under control, though you might still see some slight variability, especially in colors like Bright Yellow. In any case, I do not think this change considerably affected the strength of joint pieces. As I mentioned the 7M double ball cups had issues with fragility long before there were any issues with single ball cups or 5M double ball cups.

[Chronicler06]

For me, the only times I've every really disassembled any of my sets were when I had to clean some dust off of them. In 2007, I had heard about how all of the lime green pieces made that year were of poor quality due to a faulty batch of plastic. I heeded this advice and simply left all of the ball and socket connections on my Hahli Mahri set together when I cleaned it (everything else that went on by pins and axles was still okay to take apart). But when I got to the 2008 sets, I never heard about any such warnings, so I had to find out about their brittleness the hard way. I had started with the six Matoran sets, and while many of the sockets seemed fine, quite a few of them did fracture. When I moved on to the six Makuta sets, I thought that by moving the joint around a bit (and thus get a little heat from friction) would make them less prone to breaking on separation, but that apparently made no difference. So, with just about every Bionicle set from that point on (starting with the six Toa sets of 2008), I pretty much repeated what I had done with that Hahli set. It's been a while since I last checked on them, but when I last put them away, the joints still seemed to be relatively okay, so long as I made no attempt to separate the parts.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Chronicler06

[Micro Nuju]

Personally, I noticed the brittle pieces in 2007 with lime green Hahli Mahri and Ehlek limb pieces.

[Naota Takizawa]

What happened to the piece quality over the years? 2001-2006 didn't have broken pieces but when I tried to rebuild Ehlek after disassembling him, the lime green pieces snapped. 

[Aanchir]

What happened to the piece quality over the years? 2001-2006 didn't have broken pieces but when I tried to rebuild Ehlek after disassembling him, the lime green pieces snapped.

In 2007 there was a particular problem with bright yellowish green joints. They weren't the first fragile joints (I had issues with these breaking as early as 2005, and with Bohrok feet even earlier than that) or the last (the redesign of the ball cup in 2008 meant that pretty much all colors became fragile), but they were the first time the issue became incredibly visible. It was easy for the joints in sets like Ehlek or Toa Mahri Hahli to break even the very first time the set was assembled, and often they didn't just break, they shattered. Allegedly, the reason for this was that it was a batch of parts that had been cooled improperly after molding.

[doodleloot]

Most of my joint pieces from 2006-2009 have at least a little crack in them, but still work. I've also had cups completely break apart. This happened quite rarely, but it was still very annoying.

[Mr Caes]

Noticed this as well. Dug out Takanuva '08 and most of the joints have small cracks in them. The elbow joint was so cracked that it couldn't hold the arm up when it was holding the lance.

[Pohatu: Uniter of Stone]

Besides ball cups getting cracked or broken, I've actually had a ball pop off of one of my Metru heads from repeatedly trying to quickly take it off by pushing it against the side of the cup. I haven't had an issue like that in a very long time.

[Guardian Legend]

As most people, the lime green ones are always the worst. However, I was just MOCing my Toa Norik yesterday and when I added the dark red limb pieces from Tahu Nuva (Mistika), all but one broke, which wasn't fun. 

[Chip Wiseman]

Personally, I noticed the brittle pieces in 2007 with lime green Hahli Mahri and Ehlek limb pieces.

 

Oh, so much.

Those lime greens were the bane of 2007 MOC-makers.

[Sardrox: Will of Makuta]

There is literally not a single socket piece in my collection from the '07-'11 years that isn't either cracked or broken entirely. One of my Pahrak's feet is now cracked too, even though I just bought him new last year. I've actually had one of the CCBS bones and an armor piece break as well. I'm not sure If I sat on it or stepped on it or it just broke, but it it broken...

[Toa Kayn]

I spoke too soon above, one of my MOC's ball cups completely broke.

[Manducus]

Are there anyways to prevent this? If not, then my MOCing days are over.

[Aanchir]

Stop using pre-2011 ball cups in your MOCs. Otherwise, there is no failsafe solution.

[TERIDAX941]

Well the 2001-2004 sets seemed to keep together pretty well... we made Toa Kaita all the time, and they never broke. That's pretty much all the advice I can give

[specsowl]

I don't know...but I know the very first Bionicle to break on me was Mutran. The ball shoulder joint COMPLETELY snapped off! Also the sockets on Fenrakk's back legs cracked on both sides which makes me very sad. They don't even feel fragile so when they break it makes me even more sad because I take such good care of them!

Edited August 1, 2014 by specsowl