Why multiple Makuta may still be alive

[Makuta_of_Oz]

While most people think Miserix is the only Makuta left, I think there may be others that still exist. Here's my reason for thinking so:

 

Once upon a time, Makuta were biomechanical beings just like any other MU species. I believe this means that Makuta that died prior to the evolution to gas in armour would have been teleported to the Red Star and repaired like any other biomechanical being.

 

For this reason, I believe at least five Makuta may be alive inside the Red Star. The Makuta in question are the five Makuta who sided with Miserix when Teridax overthrew him. Teridax ordered all five of them killed, and their masks hung on the walls of Destral as trophies. Depending on how they were killed, they may have been teleported to the Red Star after death for repairs, and then trapped there after that infamous teleporter malfunction.

 

In addition, some Makuta were known to have died while dispatched on missions. Some of them may have died before the evolution, meaning they too would have been repaired inside the Red Star.

 

However, Kojol and the Makuta killed by Zaria would not be among these Makuta, because they are both proven to have died after evolution. Kojol had his evolved essence incinerated in a Xian furness, while the Makuta killed by Zaria was hunting him because of the evolution, which made their kind vulnerable to Toa of Iron such as Zaria.

 

Are there any details I'm missing? Any feedback to disprove my theory? C&C welcome.

[ALVIS]

Nope. Greg has stated that antidermis isn't revived on the Red Star. So no Kraata, Rahkshi, or Makuta were ever reincarnated up there.

[V-N]

Before the Makuta evolved into gaseous beings, they were still made of Antidermis, just in a solid form. They still can't be revived in the Red Star.

 

I think the best chance for more Makuta to come back is for there to be a pool of Antidermis available. I think all the pools the Matoran Universe are confirmed destroyed, so unless there is a pool in a secret Great Beings lab or something, they are likely gone for good.* Perhaps the Red Star, though not designed to revive Makuta, could have some of the needed material? It's a repair station; it ought to have everything necessary, probably except for Antidermis.

 

 

*Other possibilities, though very unlikely, is for some GBs make some more, or more Makuta are brought in from alternate dimensions (Alt. Teridax), or Miserix knows how to make some from scratch.

[Vahkiti Master of Time]

Before the Makuta evolved into gaseous beings, they were still made of Antidermis, just in a solid form. They still can't be revived in the Red Star.

 

I think the best chance for more Makuta to come back is for there to be a pool of Antidermis available. I think all the pools the Matoran Universe are confirmed destroyed, so unless there is a pool in a secret Great Beings lab or something, they are likely gone for good.* Perhaps the Red Star, though not designed to revive Makuta, could have some of the needed material? It's a repair station; it ought to have everything necessary, probably except for Antidermis.

 

 

*Other possibilities, though very unlikely, is for some GBs make some more, or more Makuta are brought in from alternate dimensions (Alt. Teridax), or Miserix knows how to make some from scratch.

I'm probably very wrong on this, but could there not be antidermis in the prototype robot somewhere? I imagine the same life bloods that sustained Mata Nui were used in that.

[ALVIS]

I think the best chance for more Makuta to come back is for there to be a pool of Antidermis available. I think all the pools the Matoran Universe are confirmed destroyed, so unless there is a pool in a secret Great Beings lab or something, they are likely gone for good.*

 

There is only one known pool of antidermis in the MU, but to our knowledge, it's still intact. It was visited by Axonn and Brutaka in Destiny War, who were sent to destroy it, but instead it possessed Brutaka and sent them on a pointless subplot that went nowhere.

 

Now, all the pools of energized protodermis in the MU -- those were all destroyed by the Order of Mata Nui in the Destiny War, with the exception of the Daxia pool, which was destroyed by Tahu's group during Teridax's reign.

[bonesiii]

You may be getting this from an early answer Greg gave, before he decided antidermis just can't be revived period. But that's out of date now.

 

Perhaps the Red Star, though not designed to revive Makuta, could have some of the needed material? It's a repair station; it ought to have everything necessary, probably except for Antidermis.

Why would the Red Star not revive Makuta if it had antidermis handy? Well, I suppose if all antidermis is always alive that would work (there would already be minds claiming it, like the official pool), but also -- if it doesn't have antidermis, how could it ever make new Makuta? That's kind of like saying a clothing factory has everything needed to make humans except biology. The only thing that wasn't antidermis was their outer armor.

 

I'm probably very wrong on this, but could there not be antidermis in the prototype robot somewhere? I imagine the same life bloods that sustained Mata Nui were used in that.

But it predated the discovery of natural protodermis, so how could any version of that be in there? And antidermis is probably a late invention anyways, as mentioned in the other topic where this came up -- and how is it a life blood of Mata Nui? It's just a pool sitting there.

[Vahkiti Master of Time]

 

I'm probably very wrong on this, but could there not be antidermis in the prototype robot somewhere? I imagine the same life bloods that sustained Mata Nui were used in that.

But it predated the discovery of natural protodermis, so how could any version of that be in there? And antidermis is probably a late invention anyways, as mentioned in the other topic where this came up -- and how is it a life blood of Mata Nui? It's just a pool sitting there.

 

As I said, likely very wrong. I was never too familiar with the history of the prototype.

[TERIDAX941]

Now, all the pools of energized protodermis in the MU -- those were all destroyed by the Order of Mata Nui in the Destiny War, with the exception of the Daxia pool, which was destroyed by Tahu's group during Teridax's reign.

 

Actually those were assumed destroyed, but the energized protodermis entity revealed that if you cap up one of the lakes, it will just reappear somewhere else (which explained why Keetongu and Helryx found a huge lake of the stuff in that one cavern. So there is actually still a lot of EP around.

[ALVIS]

 

Now, all the pools of energized protodermis in the MU -- those were all destroyed by the Order of Mata Nui in the Destiny War, with the exception of the Daxia pool, which was destroyed by Tahu's group during Teridax's reign.

 

Actually those were assumed destroyed, but the energized protodermis entity revealed that if you cap up one of the lakes, it will just reappear somewhere else (which explained why Keetongu and Helryx found a huge lake of the stuff in that one cavern. So there is actually still a lot of EP around.

 

 

...

 

Well, I never came by that interpretation. It seems highly illogical to me that EP would be simply indestructible, especially since Greg stated several times that it could be destroyed, and had been destroyed.

 

I can't find the wording or the logic to disprove your statements. But that idea just seems plumb wrong to me.

[TERIDAX941]

 

 

Now, all the pools of energized protodermis in the MU -- those were all destroyed by the Order of Mata Nui in the Destiny War, with the exception of the Daxia pool, which was destroyed by Tahu's group during Teridax's reign.

 

Actually those were assumed destroyed, but the energized protodermis entity revealed that if you cap up one of the lakes, it will just reappear somewhere else (which explained why Keetongu and Helryx found a huge lake of the stuff in that one cavern. So there is actually still a lot of EP around.

 

 

...

 

Well, I never came by that interpretation. It seems highly illogical to me that EP would be simply indestructible, especially since Greg stated several times that it could be destroyed, and had been destroyed.

 

I can't find the wording or the logic to disprove your statements. But that idea just seems plumb wrong to me.

 

It's not my words it's what was written in the Destiny War serial, in the chapter when Helryx and Keetongu confronted the EP entity. But I don't think they destroyed the EP per se... from what the Entity said they were simply caving in the pool so that it was no longer inaccessible. So they created pressure there, and forced it to emerge somewhere else, and eventually all ended up in one place in one huge pool. And they never destroyed that particular pool, so EP is pretty much still active and around.

 

But anyhow... how do you destroy something that destroys or changes anything that comes in contact with it? 

 

Edit: Biosector01 states that the Order figured out a counter substance to destroy it that way. 

Edited July 24, 2014 by Iron_Man5

[bonesiii]

Actually those were assumed destroyed, but the energized protodermis entity revealed that if you cap up one of the lakes, it will just reappear somewhere else (which explained why Keetongu and Helryx found a huge lake of the stuff in that one cavern. So there is actually still a lot of EP around.

The Entity was talking about itself, not EP the material moving around. The mind of the entity could jump between existing pools. That has nothing to do with being able to destroy pools or not. (And since it is explosive, you obviously can do that, if you know how.)

[V-N]

You may be getting this from an early answer Greg gave, before he decided antidermis just can't be revived period. But that's out of date now.

 

Perhaps the Red Star, though not designed to revive Makuta, could have some of the needed material? It's a repair station; it ought to have everything necessary, probably except for Antidermis.

Why would the Red Star not revive Makuta if it had antidermis handy? Well, I suppose if all antidermis is always alive that would work (there would already be minds claiming it, like the official pool), but also -- if it doesn't have antidermis, how could it ever make new Makuta? That's kind of like saying a clothing factory has everything needed to make humans except biology. The only thing that wasn't antidermis was their outer armor. 

 

Well, if you make a new Makuta, he/she is going to be in the un-evolved solid form. I am therefore assuming that if you make a Makuta, you can't just create some armor and pour Antidermis inside. Presumably it needs something to stitch all the organic matter and mechanical parts together. Since that is basically the Red Star's business, it probably has perfected the general process; the only problem would be the anatomy of Makuta, which may or may not differ from other MU residents. The Antidermis is the one ingredient for making Makuta, but they can't be that easy to make without some other tools.

Edited July 25, 2014 by V-N

[bonesiii]

Well that all depends on how the revivers/spawners work. If it's like the theory in my retelling (it's in already-posted chapters if you're curious), none of that would be an issue. (And it seems it would have to be fully versatile to make any and every individual of every species in the diverse MU.) I think the problems are more that minds seem to naturally inhabit antidermis, and it just wasn't included on the Red Star.

 

Plus, the Red Star isn't for making new beings anyways.

[Banana Gunz]

I think its also notable that we don't particularly know whether or not the Red Star is actually designed to create Makuta. Think about it- Makuta were made by Mata-Nui (not the Great Beings) so the Red Star probably doesn't have the materials to create Makuta (since Mata-Nui made them, and the Red Star was created by the Great Beings).

 

As well as this, since the Makuta were made by Mata-Nui, they might not be designed to teleport to the Red Star or whatever is in charge of teleporting doesn't know and/or recognize the Makuta as a species because they were made after the Red Star's creation.

 

And even if the Makuta were recognized as a species it is unknown if they are meant/wanted to be revived, we don't know if all species are revived (Skakdi, Vortixx, etc.) even though it is said that all members of the Mata-Nui robot all have a role to play in his function.

 

But the subplot of Brutaka being possessed by the essence of the Makuta is NOT completely useless. Although it seems the essence of the Makuta is not evil or corrupted like the others, it could very well seperate itself from Brutaka and create more Makuta.

 

So... yeah. I'd say that except Miserix and the alt. universe Teridax (and the essence of the Makuta if that counts), all Makuta are dead, but that doesn't mean more can't come into being.

[Vartemp]

I think the Red Star was made to repair beings that were originally created by the GBs. The Makuta species would not go to the Red Star if they were killed, because Mata Nui created the Makuta. The only other sapient species in the MU that would probably not be teleported to the Red Star would be the Zyglak, but that's a different story.

[bonesiii]

I think the Red Star was made to repair beings that were originally created by the GBs. The Makuta species would not go to the Red Star if they were killed, because Mata Nui created the Makuta.

No. Any protodermic sapient species should be revived there, including the many species that Mata Nui created (except sapient Rahi... etc.). Greg has been clear about this. The problem with Makuta, again, is that they're made out of antidermis, and the RS simply isn't equipped with antidermis revival ability. It's really very simple -- there's no need to continue to try to explain it.

 

And Greg just confirmed Zyglak are revived.

Edited July 26, 2014 by bonesiii

[fishers64]

I thought it was theorized before that the GBs told Mata Nui how to make the Makuta and gave him the antidermis to do it; they intended the Makuta to exist. The GBs also made the instructions for the Golden Armor in case the antidermis got rogue, so they expected some antidermis beings to exist. 

[NorikSigma]

Although the RS could possibly have the tech to revive Antidermis, they simply wouldn't have a supply handy beacuse the Makuta were never meant to become Antidermis floaty-gas, right? They were only meant to be biomechanical.

 

Now that they turned to gas, and they died...

 

Unless those five who sided with Miserix died before they transformed into gas. In which case they would still be alive on the RS.

[bonesiii]

Although the RS could possibly have the tech to revive Antidermis, they simply wouldn't have a supply handy beacuse the Makuta were never meant to become Antidermis floaty-gas, right? They were only meant to be biomechanical.

 

Now that they turned to gas, and they died...

 

Unless those five who sided with Miserix died before they transformed into gas. In which case they would still be alive on the RS.

No, the antidermis of Makuta was naturally supposed to eventually turn to the gaseous state. We don't really know why, but it was intentional. Quite possibly related to the fact that their biomechanical forms couldn't be revived in the RS, since the gaseous form was much harder to kill. Maybe a consolation prize for being un-revivable?

 

And your last paragraph is clearly in error as explained already. No Makuta could ever be revived on the RS because antidermis can't be revived there, Greg said. He didn't say it was about the gaseous state versus biomechanical, he just said antidermis.