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The Most Important Question Ever Asked


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Hey.  I was a member here very many years ago.  I was around when Bionicle was first released, I even remember seeing the first toa commercial in 2001.  I came back just to ask one question.  

 

Who would win in a race?  Pohatu or Sonic?

 

*drops mic*

 

 

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Pohatu. It may sound like I'm just being biased because I like Bionicle, but if you look at how fast Sonic goes, then look at Pohatu, Pohatu looks like he's going much faster. 

 

Well that could just be due to the animation quality. Has Pohatu ever made a sonic boom? 

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Also which version of pohatu are we talking about? Nuva or mata? Because nuva pohatu I am fairly certain could win with the use of the kakama nuva

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Also which version of pohatu are we talking about? Nuva or mata? Because nuva pohatu I am fairly certain could win with the use of the kakama nuva

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Nuva transformation's benefit to the masks was to allow their powers to be shared, not to increase their actual power. So Pohatu Nuva wouldn't move any faster than Pohatu Mata.

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Also which version of pohatu are we talking about? Nuva or mata? Because nuva pohatu I am fairly certain could win with the use of the kakama nuva

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Nuva transformation's benefit to the masks was to allow their powers to be shared, not to increase their actual power. So Pohatu Nuva wouldn't move any faster than Pohatu Mata.

 

I thought the masks became more powerful. For example, the Kakama Nuva allowed users to move fast enough that they could travel through solid objects and the Miru Nuva allowed Lewa to fly without the need to use his wind power. I seem to recal other minor encancements in a comic book a long while back, but those are the two that I remember.

 

UPDATE:

Here is the comic page I was refering to. Note that the Miru and Pakari images are mixed-up.

Edited by JrMasterModelBuilder
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Are signatures still a thing?

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Also which version of pohatu are we talking about? Nuva or mata? Because nuva pohatu I am fairly certain could win with the use of the kakama nuva

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Nuva transformation's benefit to the masks was to allow their powers to be shared, not to increase their actual power. So Pohatu Nuva wouldn't move any faster than Pohatu Mata.

 

I thought the masks became more powerful. For example, the Kakama Nuva allowed users to move fast enough that they could travel through solid objects and the Miru Nuva allowed Lewa to fly without the need to use his wind power. I seem to recal other minor encancements in a comic book a long while back, but those are the two that I remember.

 

It's not so much that the Kakama Nuva lets someone travel so fast they can move through objects, rather it allows the user to vibrate their molecules. I'm not sure if that's directly connected to how fast he's going, though. But, yes, some of the Nuva masks did have minor enhancements.

 

I have no idea how to answer the OP's question, though.

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That is very hard to answer:

 

1. There are no games about Pohatu's Speed

2. There are games about Sonic's Speed

3. We don't know what Pohatu;s Speed can get up to

4. We do know what Sonic's Speed can get up to

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It depends on a lot of factors really...

-What version of Pohatu?
-What era of Sonic? Or which sonic universe even?
-Does Sonic have the Chaos Emeralds (Super Sonic).
-What other tools/utilities do both have access to during their race?
-What terrain? (this matters!)

And so on....

I'm urged to say Sonic, but I'm not sure... Because as mentioned before, we know Sonic canonically (not in-game) moves at the speed of sound, but have no official record of Pohatu's speed...

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When Pohatu was in the Mistika phase and photok sat on top of him, he gained the ability to travel at light speed. (It's true, I read about it in "Makuta's Guide to the Universe")

 

But aside from that particular situation-  dunno. As was put earlier, we don't know either ones speed.  ^_^

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Sonic's top speed is hard to define, but various sources give an actual number. After some searching, I found that the Sonic Unleashed checkpoints show his speed as 2 500 mph (4 023 kmph). Sonic has also been described as being able to go at "hypersonic" speeds, which is beyond regular supersonic speeds. The minimum required to be labeled "hypersonic" is 3 840 mph (6 150 kmph). Pohatu, when using the Mask of Speed, is shown in the MNOG to vanish from Takua's sight in only a second. Let us say that in order to achieve this Pohatu moved at least 1 to 3 km in this single second. That would put him at a speed ranging between 3 600 and 10 800 kmph (2 237 to 6 710 mph). This rivals Sonic's supposed speed.

 

A Sonic cartoon intro calls the blue hedgehog "too fast for the naked eye", which would - when taken literally - approach light speed. Or, we could take it to mean that he moves so fast that an average human reaction time is not enough to keep track of him, which would be substantially lower. The average human reaction time is 300-500 ms. Moving fast enough to cross your field of view would be enough, and then your perception will vary with distance.

 

In their respective stories, Pohatu's greatest feat is to move at light speed (when connected to a certain Matoran). This would put his max speed at 299 792 458 meters per second, or 1 079 252 850 kmph (670 616 629 mph). Sonic also holds this claim, however, as at least one story shows him move by just "fading" and the reappearing somewhere else, and I think maybe 2 or 3 have him travel so fast he travels through time. Thus both characters can reach light speed under the right circumstances; Pohatu when receiving aid and Sonic when being boosted or straining himself a lot.

 

It's probably worth mentioning that The Flash has them both beat by a large margin. A nuclear bomb goes off. Now, Flash is faster than it, and the comic puts him at "a hair's breadth short of the speed of light". But as the poster mentions right below, it doesn't add up that he carried that many people away so quickly if he wasn't going even faster. Flash is subsequently calculated to have moved at 13 trillion times the speed of light!

 

Even when below light speed, in the Justice League cartoon The Flash appears to circle the Earth twice a second, which means he travels 80,000 kilometers per second (288 000 000 kmph). Then he does some sort of vibrating super punch that causes his molecules to glitch and warp to another dimension or whatever, but in pure running speed (and acceleration) The Flash wins by far. Superman - The Animated Series show The Flash and Superman being roughly equal, and far slower (their race around the earth in Speed Demons lasts for the full episode). In this series, Flash appears very similar to other speedy characters like Sonic the Hedgehog. Flash is also able to vibrate his body.

 

I think it's safe to say that most super-speedy characters get the same kind of extra powers added as time goes on. First they are shown to have an incredible top speed. Then they show the ability to accelerate instantly. Then they gain the ability to run circles around the earth, or move so fast that you can't see them. Finally the power creep reaches a level where time stands still or they pass through objects. Same thing happens with both The Flash, Superman, and Sonic the Hedgehog: When the writers want to show their "true power", they stop being just "fast" and start moving so quickly you can't even see it. Pohatu is the only one who doesn't rise as quickly in power, but we see the tendency in him too as the story goes on.

 

I imagine that Sonic the Hedgehog (with no power-ups) and Pohatu (no Nuva upgrade) would clock in at roughly equal in a regular race. The Flash, depending on the writer, would either be equal to them, or far beyond.

 

Speaking of super-fast characters, I wonder how the Speed Booster from Super Metroid matches up to Sonic's max running speed on Sega Genesis - and by extension, Pohatu's speed when using his mask? Or how the vehicles from F-Zero (usually go between 600 and 1,500 kmph in an average race) measure up to Sonic when being boosted by speed arrows on the track? In practice the Mask of Speed is probably not as quick as it's shown to be in the MNOG (because then Pohatu could never be caught by anything ever). Kopaka's use of it in Mangaia is probably closer to the actual speed it can go.

Edited by Katuko
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Don't forget those couple times in that serial I forget the name of. Pohatu scouted pretty far in seconds and stopped a tornado by counterrotating it, with just the Kakama

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 Kopaka, the coolest(Pun intended) Ko-Toa ever:

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"If the fight had turned, Exann might be the one on the floor with Antidermis spurting out of him. This is how battle is. This is how life is." -Mar'jik, Corpus Rahkshi                                       

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  • 3 weeks later...

Wasn't it said somewhere that Takanuva can move at the speed of light?

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The Flash would be farrrrr beyond.

 

I think Pohatu would be pretty much faster than Sonic. Remember the bit in Chronicles #4? Pohatu raced ahead and saw a threat before the other character(can't remember who) could even complete a sentence.

 

That's way faster than Sonic.

I believe that character was Kopaka.

 

 

 

Wasn't it said somewhere that Takanuva can move at the speed of light?

BS01 says that he is experimenting with increased speeds and that he could access all Av-Matoran special light-based powers after some intense training, which includes Photok's power. So he can move at the speed of light, but he probably doesn't have enough training yet to do it.

 

As for the original question, I'd say that Pohatu would win, but that would just be my guess. 

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Pssh, then Takanuva could in the future beat them both.

 

Some song in some city says Sonic is going around at the speed of sound, Takanuva is the speed of LIGHT!

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As I mentioned above, Sonic is at the very least traveling at the speed of sound, but comics and other media show him move far faster. The same goes for many other speedy characters, so it's very hard to judge their actual top speed.

 

Rolling around at the speed of sound

Got places to go, gotta follow my rainbow

~ Escape From The City

 

If he's literally following the rainbow, he's got light speed. :P

 

Blue streak speeds by

Sonic the Hedgehog

Too fast for the naked eye

Sonic the Hedgehog!

~ Sonic cartoon intro

 

Also mentioned: If he's too fast for the naked eye, that can also be interpreted to mean something close to light speed.

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That's just music... That means nothing.

 

Go watch GameTheory's episode on Sonic's speed. He moves way too slow.

Edited by Boidoh

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We're discussing canon, not game mechanic, interpretation. If it's the other way around, then we could use that data here.

 

And unless there's a logical reason to dismiss that piece of evidence(music), I doubt brushing it off as "it means nothing" is a good analysis of it.

 

Nonetheless I agree that the music is not good evidence as it is probably artistic license, and it would be way better to analyse Sonic's speed within the cartoon and lore.

Edited by Norik Of Celtania
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Bah, there is a difference between Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic as well a difference between cartoon Sonic and game Sonic.

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Bah, there is a difference between Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic as well a difference between cartoon Sonic and game Sonic.

There's also a difference between comic Pohatu, game Pohatu, movie Pohatu, and book Pohatu. Which do we choose? If we go by comics, then Sonic can literally move faster than the eye can see. If we go by games, then Pohatu is pretty quick, but Sonic is even quicker. if we go by animated scenes, there are still cartoon scenes where Sonic appears to "phase" to a new location. In written works, Pohatu matches Sonic in terms of sheer speed.

 

But we have no numbers, so all we can do is speculate.

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The difference is that with Sonic, the comics are their own canon, the TV show is its own canon, and its games are its own canon. They are all different.

 

With BIONICLE, all the stuff is the same canon.

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With BIONICLE, all the stuff is the same canon.

BIONICLE's various media still show different versions of events, and contradict each other on many things. Some are outright non-canon, such as Sidorak appearing on Voya Nui in BIONICLE Heroes. How do we know Pohatu's normal top speed, anyways?

 

And what does it matter if it's Classic Sonic or Modern Sonic, comics or games? We can compare them all if need be. :)

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