Isn't Tahu Technically Suppose to be Dead?

[Banana Gunz]

     Hi fellers! For my first topic here at BZP I wanted to bring up something interesting that I had been thinking about and thought you guys might want to hear about.

 

     Now as much as we all love Bionicle and its story, we probably all know for the most part how it has plenty of plot holes and loose ends that have never been explained.

 

     So as we all know Tahu and the rest of the Toa Mata fell into pools of energized protodermis when they defeated to Bahrag queens, thus becoming the Toa Nuva. The nature of energized protodermis is simple enough to understand, it can either destroy or transform objects and entities based on whether or not they were destined to. 

 

     Here's where the problem comes up: Tahu was destined to wear to golden armor one, right? But in order to do this he had to be a Toa Mata, meaning he was never meant to become a Toa Nuva, meaning he was meant to be destroyed when he fell into the energized protodermis in the Bahrags chamber!

 

     The biggest culprit for this problem was mainly the designers wanting to put a Tahu back in the market for the last year of Bionicle wearing a Kanohi Hau; from what I can tell they wanted some memorable and nostalgic characters. The story would have been perfectly fine without turning Tahu back into a Toa Mata and in fact just complicated things with the incongruity between him and the rest if his team. Plus the golden armor was never a very fleshed out or thought through artifact; it was mainly just put there to add a nice and convenient clean up of Makutas army.

 

     So Tahu's supposed to be dead now...

 

But I guess there are some loopholes I can think of to this that have a chance at saving the Bionicle lore from yet another sad technicality (but honestly all have something that makes them not work so they probably can't...) :

1. The definition of 'destiny' in this case.

     One could say that Tahu wearing to golden armor wasn't really his destiny, it was something mainly one would argue that it was something that had to be done at some point in time.

Why this probably doesn't work: because it is strictly Tahu that must wear the golden armor, effectively making it his destiny and his destiny alone. Or else why couldn't it be ol' Gali or Hewkiis destiny to wear it? 

 

2. The protodermis entity is a clown

     It's been sorta revealed that the protodermis entity has complete and utter control over energized protodermis (because he is the energized protodermis and the engergized protodermis is him) and chooses whether or not he wants to transform them based on his own personal interests, and can do whatever he wants to with a being or object (transform or destroy).

Why this probably doesn't work: the way he talks about his substance is like he doesn't know about what it'll do himself; when he was about to wash over Helryx and Keetongu in energized protodermis, he asked them the rhetorical question of what will happen to them, "transformation or destruction?", implying that he doesn't have a full understanding or control over the substance despite his self being made from it. Plus, even if he can choose whether or not he can get the object to transform or destroy, there is nothing saying he has any control over what the object or entity will transform into (that would sorta be like saying he can control one's destiny)

 

3. Energized Protodermis lives on the 'wild side'

     This is probably the most likely candidate to disprove my theory, because one theory is that energized protodermis only acts to change things if they are destined to at the moment. For example, Tahu's physical destiny at the moment was to become a Toa Nuva along with the rest of his team but later his destiny changed so that he would have to be a Toa Mata in order to wear the Golden Armor.

Why this probably doesn't work:There isn't enough canon evidence of this to support it, it brings up the question that if Tahu had been exposed to energized protodermis again later after he became a Toa Nuva if he would've been transformed back into a Toa Mata.

 

So all in all, if you want to get super realistic like I did, Tahu is in fact suppose to be dead, but I want to know what you guys think! I would hate to have to imagine that Tahu is suppose to be dead (it would ruin the story  D: ) so if you see a flaw in my logic or you think there is another exception that I missed that can show that Tahu isn't actually dead, please feel free to politely tell me! I'd love to see what you guys have to say!

 

Thanks guys (and gals!) and I'm happy I decided to finally join this awesome site! (I'm 15 and I've wanted to join for a while but I honestly never felt like it was the time for some reason!) Keep loving Biurnicles!

[MaksDudekVA]

Tahu was always meant to become a Toa Nuva, but the ignika was also meant to turn him back, if that makes sense.

 

He wasnt destined to be a Toa Nuva for the rest of his life, only up until the point he had to wear the golden armor.

 

To make it even simpler, he was only supposed to be a Toa Nuva for the 2003-2009 eras. After that, he's meant to be transformed back into a Toa Mata.

 

Its simple really.

[Banana Gunz]

Tahu was always meant to become a Toa Nuva, but the ignika was also meant to turn him back, if that makes sense.

 

He wasnt destined to be a Toa Nuva for the rest of his life, only up until the point he had to wear the golden armor.

 

To make it even simpler, he was only supposed to be a Toa Nuva for the 2003-2009 eras. After that, he's meant to be transformed back into a Toa Mata.

 

Its simple really.

 

Why let him go through the whole process of being a Toa Nuva? Couldn't a lot of trouble be saved by just letting him be a Toa Mata then? How many destinies is someone allowed? Is one's destiny allowed to change? Is a destiny what you are for a certain amount of time that you're able to turn back from if that is your destiny? Which is his destiny then?! 

 

I dunno if its as simple as that, but you definitely bring up a good point. 

[Krayzikk]

Short answer... No, he's not supposed to be dead.

 

Destiny isn't one endpoint. It isn't "Tahu was destined to wear the Golden Armor, and this, was not destined to be a Nuva". The two aren't mutually exclusive, because destiny isn't just one event, or one outcome. Destiny for a Toa is the entire path they're meant to walk. When they fulfill their destiny, it's not that they've met one single set of circumstantial criteria. To borrow the Metru, for example, they didn't become Turaga because they woke the Matoran up. That is the circumstance that led to it, but they became Turaga because the entire course of their destiny was complete. They were destined to become Toa, fight to save Metru Nui, find Mata Nui when they failed, and go back for the rest of the Matoran. Once they brought the Matoran to Mata Nui and woke them, their destiny was complete.

 

Likewise, Tahu's destiny was always to go through all the steps. He was destined to be a Mata, destined to be a Nuva, destined to go to Karda Nui, and eventually, destined to become a Mata again in order to wear the Golden Armor. It was always his destiny to go through that entire path.

 

Plus, he only became a Mata again because that's what Lego wanted. The story explanation doesn't necessarily have to make the utmost sense because, frankly, Lego was just wrapping up loose ends and they wanted a little nostalgia before they pulled the plug.

[Banana Gunz]

Short answer... No, he's not supposed to be dead.

 

Destiny isn't one endpoint. It isn't "Tahu was destined to wear the Golden Armor, and this, was not destined to be a Nuva". The two aren't mutually exclusive, because destiny isn't just one event, or one outcome. Destiny for a Toa is the entire path they're meant to walk. When they fulfill their destiny, it's not that they've met one single set of circumstantial criteria. To borrow the Metru, for example, they didn't become Turaga because they woke the Matoran up. That is the circumstance that led to it, but they became Turaga because the entire course of their destiny was complete. They were destined to become Toa, fight to save Metru Nui, find Mata Nui when they failed, and go back for the rest of the Matoran. Once they brought the Matoran to Mata Nui and woke them, their destiny was complete.

 

Likewise, Tahu's destiny was always to go through all the steps. He was destined to be a Mata, destined to be a Nuva, destined to go to Karda Nui, and eventually, destined to become a Mata again in order to wear the Golden Armor. It was always his destiny to go through that entire path.

 

Plus, he only became a Mata again because that's what Lego wanted. The story explanation doesn't necessarily have to make the utmost sense because, frankly, Lego was just wrapping up loose ends and they wanted a little nostalgia before they pulled the plug.

 

Put in words like that, I see it now, I guess I think you and Core are right. I always assumed that in Bionicle, destiny was different than the idea in real life.

 

The problem that still goes against your claim though is that maybe the definition of destiny in Bionicle still is different. Whenever I go on BS01 and other wikis it insists that a toa must "complete" their destiny. It claims the Toa Mata's destiny is to awaken Mata-Nui, it claims the Toa Inika's destiny was to save Mata-Nui from dying/bring him back to life. The thing that is different with the Toa Metru (which is why they make an especially good example for your point) is that their destiny consists of protecting the matoran, which can mean a series of things.

 

 

So I guess here's the contradiction in Bionicle lore: is a Toa's destiny something specific (the Toa Inika being specifically made to keep Mata-Nui from dying at that particular moment), or is it something more broad like a series of events or things you must do in general/several destinies making up one?    Bionicle just has too many contradictions, loop holes and loose ends! 

[boston100]

I actually hated the destiny thing. It was kind of like some guy decided what you were going 2 do then u had 2 do it.

[bonesiii]

That's not how it works -- if he was supposed to be dead, he would be. I only had time to skim so you might have covered this, but basically EP transformation destinies are not necessarily time sensitive; he could have transformed after the Golden Armor use. Or being destined to be turned back works too.

[fishers64]

No. 

 

If everything worked the way it was supposed to, Tahu would be still sleeping in his canister in the Codrex somewhere, taken no EP baths, used no Golden Armor, and wouldn't be gallivanting around Spherus Magna in the first place. He would still be alive. 

 

It's like how Vakama put it in Web of Shadows: 

 

"On that day I learned that our destinies are not written in stone. We have to find them for ourselves."

 

In that EP bath, Tahu found one destiny. Out on the plains of Bara Magna, he found another. 

[bonesiii]

Okay, here's my longer reply.

Here's where the problem comes up: Tahu was destined to wear to golden armor one, right? But in order to do this he had to be a Toa Mata, meaning he was never meant to become a Toa Nuva, meaning he was meant to be destroyed when he fell into the energized protodermis in the Bahrags chamber!

This logic actually doesn't work. Notice that for the Golden Armor destiny to be fulfilled, he must be alive. Two requirements -- alive, and non-Nuva. It would make no sense to be nitpicky about one in the interests of letting him fulfil the destiny, when the result would itself prevent him from fulfilling it (dead Toa wear no Golden Armor). And since the Golden Armor was destined to be granted by the Mask of Life, the one thing capable of undoing an EP transformation, it was guaranteed that once Tahu was granted it, he could be reverted then, so it was always obvious "from destiny's point of view" that Nuva-izing him would not be a problem.

 

To put it simply, destroying Tahu guarantees the Golden Armor destiny will fail, while transforming him gives it a strong chance of succeeding. So, your logic is actually backwards -- the destiny system would obviously choose transformation. In fact you could argue that this armor destiny may very well be part of WHY he was transformed (although he also had the vital awakening Mata Nui destiny too, which applied to the whole team).

 

By the way, EP always transforms you. If it dissolves him, he's no longer a Toa either.

 

 It's been sorta revealed that the protodermis entity has complete and utter control over energized protodermis

No, it had to experiment and didn't know what the results would be of various objects coming into contact with it, nor what the results of transformations would look like. It can just move the substance itself around like a body.

 

Why this probably doesn't work: the way he talks about his substance is like he doesn't know about what it'll do himself

I'm curious -- since you know this, how could you think a moment before that the opposite was revealed?

 

So I guess here's the contradiction in Bionicle lore: is a Toa's destiny something specific (the Toa Inika being specifically made to keep Mata-Nui from dying at that particular moment)

If you really want to delve into the complexities and possibilities of destiny, might I humbly suggest my retelling which is themed around just that? But to this question -- certain destinies are specific. The destiny that a Toa Team has to accomplish before they can become a Turaga, for example, has to be specific. The form that you'll take if you have a transformation destiny if you come into contact with EP obviously has to be something. But beyond that it gets tricky. There's multiple ways of looking at it, and you have to factor the role of alternate dimensions anyways, which are where events turn out differently. But there is definitely some sort of destiny system, and certain beings could write destinies into that system (especially the Great Beings). Other destinies seem to originate elsewhere, and that is what my fanfic tends to explore.

 

Bionicle just has too many contradictions, loop holes and loose ends! 

Don't assume something is any of those things just because you might not understand it. Remember Bionicle was always intended to require work to understand. That's what it was trying to be. And it was also trying to be mysterious. At least in this case, Tahu being alive is definitely not a contradiction, since nowhere was it stated that he's supposed to be dead. That idea came from your head and as shown above is based on poor logic. (Which hopefully is good news lol.)

 

Hope this helps. =)

Edited July 26, 2014 by bonesiii

[Fry]

Yeah, I think they were looking for an excuse to have a Toa mata star. I doubt that they noticed every single detail

[Vartemp]

Pretty sure Tahu was meant to become a Toa Nuva, because he needed that extra power to fight the Bohrok-Kal, Rahkshi, and the Makuta who invaded Karda Nui. He just didn't need to be a Toa Nuva for the rest of his life, since he needed to wear the Golden Armor.