What did Greg Farshtey De-canonize Hewkii x Macku?

[Banana Gunz]

So why? I don't think it bothered anyone and I honestly thought it was pretty cute, especially in the bohrok animations.

 

Love has been shown to exist in the Bionicle universe again later in the story, so, what was the problem with them?

 

Or was it all because of Hewkii's transformation into a Toa Mahrii? Is that really the only reason why (or did the de-canonization happen before he was decided to become a toa?)?

 

Are toa aloud to love matoran, and vice versa? Are toa aloud to love toa? Are turaga aloud to love toa or matoran? Are turaga aloud to love turaga? Are matoran aloud to love matoran?!?!? TOO MANY QUESTIONS LEFT UNANSWERED!!!! 

 

Sorry if this topic was already made before, I'm just kinda new.

 

But what do you guys think? Do you know why in particular? And what is your favorite Bionicle ship? Jaller x Hahli? Vakama x Nokama? Lhikann x Tuyet!? Or even the sad story of Lesovikk x Nikila? Tell me, I'd love to hear your opinions!

[KCGR]

I can't remember the exact reasoning, but I believe it was due to the Matoran being nanomachines in the Great Spirit Robot they don't need the ability to love.

 

 

That said, I deny that fact and will continue to ship Hewkii/Macku, which answers your second question

[fishers64]

No biological reproduction = no need for romance. 
 

 

Okay, sorry to bother you with a question that I know has been answered before, but I need it for BS01, and I can’t find where you’ve given said answer before-There is absolutely no romance in Bionicle, correct? At least amongst the Matoran?

Amongst anyone in the BIONICLE universe, that’s correct. The social and biological imperatives that led to the idea of romantic love in our world -- namely, the need to mate and produce children to keep the species going -- do not exist in the BIONICLE universe, since new members of it are not produced through mating.

 

 
Going back, it's basically the same idea: 
 

2- I once asked you if matoran can have romantic feelings for each other, you said no. But BS01 says that they can have romantic feelings for each other. So is BS01 wrong?
 
 
2) BS01 is basing that off of the old online games, which featured hints of romance because the web producer at the time wanted them to. There is no romance in anything I have done for BIONICLE and as far as I am concerned, it does not exist for Matoran since it can't lead anywhere.

 
So this gradually built into a hard imperative. There was some point after 2005 that they drew the line in the sand, because up to that point Matau was flirting with Nokama and complaining about how he looked as a Hordika and all that.

[Banana Gunz]

I can't remember the exact reasoning, but I believe it was due to the Matoran being nanomachines in the Great Spirit Robot they don't need the ability to love.

 

 

That said, I deny that fact and will continue to ship Hewkii/Macku, which answers your second question

LOL, makes sense, except Greg Farshtey wrote himself that the matoran have evolved as a species where they "fight and die for each other". Meaning what robots they once were, they should now be capable of love!

 

GREG FARSHTEY CANNOT STOP THE LOVE HE HAS ALREADY LOST THIS BATTLE! 

 

EDIT: Fisher,  . Sadly that is canon but love and reproduction are not necessarily the same in our world (love as in just plain caring and liking another a lot) so I feel that it should be the same in the bionicle world (even though love and reproduction often go together). Some fun romance doesn't mean Macku or Hewkii ever really have to have kids. And plus Sahmad (the agori) once loved another iron agori, so according to Greg's canon, since they can love then they must be able to reproduce.... and agori are still bio-mechanical beings like the matornan, just more organic... whaaaa.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Banana Gunz

[ALVIS]

Short answer is: because Greg Farshtey doesn't see the point of romance if there's no biological reproduction fun time involved.

 

Of course, the real world itself demonstrates the folly of this notion with asexuals, who are entirely capable of having meaningful romantic relationships, even if those relationships are not "consummated".

 

So it's really a silly rule, one which everyone who's anyone has proceeded to entirely ignore when creating fanon. Ship on, Banana, ship on.

[Jakura Nuva]

No biological reproduction = no need for romance.

 

But that's irrelevant. Are you telling me that people who can't sexually reproduce can't love?

[fishers64]

No, that's ridiculous. But the biological imperative behind that is what makes romantic love, as interpreted by Greg in that post, and in this universe that imperative does not exist, ergo, no romantic love. 

 

People love each other as friends, and that is canon. Phileo love exists, eros does not. 

 

I'm just pointing out what the official answer is, since the question was specifically directed at Greg's actions, and I have the words of Greg conveniently on hand. In this case, it does not necessarily imply that the official answer is logically sound or even endorsed by me.

 

Personally I like the idea of a universe platonic given the ridiculous amount of romance plots in even the most unrelated-to-that stories, but given the amount of romantic hints 2001-05, I'm not sure this story qualifies, or even should qualify.  

   

[Great Being Velika]

Because why do we need to have shipping/romance in a toyline targeted at 7 year olds (that most likely think that romance is gross)?

[bonesiii]

For the record, it wasn't decanonized, it just wasn't canon in the first place. It was one of the things the web team did on their own without consulting the story team. And there was no real reason to canonize it since it wasn't what Bionicle was about.

[TakuaNova]

For the record, it wasn't decanonized, it just wasn't canon in the first place. It was one of the things the web team did on their own without consulting the story team. And there was no real reason to canonize it since it wasn't what Bionicle was about.

But you do have to admit, it was a funny little touch.

 

I still ship Hewkii x Macku (and Jaller x Hahli).

Edited July 26, 2014 by Sular

[Alyska]

@Bones- Hewkii and Macku's interest in each other featured most prominently in MNOG and the online animations, but it was also heavily supported by the official character bios as well. Same goes for Hahli and Jaller, whose romance even made it into MoL. I think saying it was never canon is a tad unfair, since the early story team, assuming they're the ones who wrote the bios, seem to have been all for it. 

[ALVIS]

Actually, I feel like Hahli and Jaller kind of separated by the time '06 rolled around. They've been nothing but professional around each other since Power Play. Sad story, I know, but not every relationship works out.

 

Hewkii and Macku, on the other hand, obviously still have a thing going, even though we haven't seen them in the same place since 2003.

[Kakaru]

 

 

No biological reproduction = no need for romance.

 

But that's irrelevant. Are you telling me that people who can't sexually reproduce can't love?

 

No, that's ridiculous. But the biological imperative behind that is what makes romantic love, as interpreted by Greg in that post, and in this universe that imperative does not exist, ergo, no romantic love.

 

Boy oh boy.

 

I'm not going to jump right into this but I have to just say this.

 

No, biological imperative makes neither romantic nor sexual love. It just doesn't. Sexual reproduction has nothing to do with love, romantic inclination, or sexual desire. Greg decanonized all of this rather than face the quagmire that is the romantic spectrum. When it comes down to it, he didn't want to simply say "bionicles don't reproduce because they don't have genitals" but he skirted around the issue with the now infamous "romance isn't canon" quote, despite there being obvious allusions to relationships of the sort in canon (and non-canon) material.

 

I ship Hewkii and Macku like any sensible person. I also ship Gali and Kopaka (which is a far better pairing than Tahu and Gali) and I ship Krahka and Onewa by popular demand.

 

also Tren Krom and Roodaka because WHO DOESN'T

[Jakura Nuva]

 

 

 

No biological reproduction = no need for romance.

 

But that's irrelevant. Are you telling me that people who can't sexually reproduce can't love?

 

No, that's ridiculous. But the biological imperative behind that is what makes romantic love, as interpreted by Greg in that post, and in this universe that imperative does not exist, ergo, no romantic love.

 

Boy oh boy.

 

I'm not going to jump right into this but I have to just say this.

 

No, biological imperative makes neither romantic nor sexual love. It just doesn't. Sexual reproduction has nothing to do with love, romantic inclination, or sexual desire. Greg decanonized all of this rather than face the quagmire that is the romantic spectrum. When it comes down to it, he didn't want to simply say "bionicles don't reproduce because they don't have genitals" but he skirted around the issue with the now infamous "romance isn't canon" quote, despite there being obvious allusions to relationships of the sort in canon (and non-canon) material.

 

 

I also ship Gali and Kopaka (which is a far better pairing than Tahu and Gali)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: This post counts as spam; please make sure your posts contribute to the discussion.

-Wind-

Edited July 27, 2014 by -Windrider-

[Banana Gunz]

Actually, I feel like Hahli and Jaller kind of separated by the time '06 rolled around. They've been nothing but professional around each other since Power Play. Sad story, I know, but not every relationship works out.

 

Hewkii and Macku, on the other hand, obviously still have a thing going, even though we haven't seen them in the same place since 2003.

Actually, I'm kinda questioning the thing between Hahli and Jaller too, because remember how all the toa Nuva call each other 'brother' and 'sister'? Well...

But my excuse for this is that that is simply something exclusive to the Nuva, since they were physically created together and bonded before they were even made.

The Inika were all friends with each other before and after the transformation, and that's how they saw each other. But so far as I can tell they never called each other brother and sister. (I never got to read all the Bionicle novels, so I don't know)

 

But on the topic of Hewkii x Macku, it's been getting very hard to ship them, with Hewkii's transformation into a toa. And in the alternate universe where Mata-Nui is a giant mega-city, Macku talks of Hewkii's death like it was of no matter to her. I was hoping for a quick add on to that moment like "she said with great sadness in her voice", just to keep it vague to those who still want to believe in their relationship.

 

 

EDIT: Does anyone else ship Lesovikk and Nikila? They were described heavily as "best friends" and she's the only one from Lesovikk's old team that he actually bothers to describe, showing that she meant a lot to him. It's like a sad love story, and it gets even better with the introduction of the Red Star and the possibility of her still being alive!

Edited July 27, 2014 by Banana Gunz

[Master Inika]

It's possible that Greg doesn't want people to expect him to write about romance. I recall he once said he never wrote about it because he never wanted to or felt like he could do it skillfully, which is believable. If he made it canon, people would only annoy him more to feature it, or message him about the details of their relationship.

 

But remember, he did scrape the surface of romance in Sahmad's Tale, with Sahmad having a lover who died in the Dreaming Plague. Within the context of Sahmad's character, it makes sense - Sahmad just doesn't want to talk about it. In hindsight, the way Sahmad seems to be trying to repress memories of his lover, while avenging the deaths of his people as a whole, might have been Greg's way of venting that people kept hoping he'd write romance.

[fishers64]

 

 

 

No biological reproduction = no need for romance.

 

But that's irrelevant. Are you telling me that people who can't sexually reproduce can't love?

 

No, that's ridiculous. But the biological imperative behind that is what makes romantic love, as interpreted by Greg in that post, and in this universe that imperative does not exist, ergo, no romantic love.

 

Boy oh boy.

 

I'm not going to jump right into this but I have to just say this.

 

No, biological imperative makes neither romantic nor sexual love. It just doesn't. Sexual reproduction has nothing to do with love, romantic inclination, or sexual desire. Greg decanonized all of this rather than face the quagmire that is the romantic spectrum. When it comes down to it, he didn't want to simply say "bionicles don't reproduce because they don't have genitals" but he skirted around the issue with the now infamous "romance isn't canon" quote, despite there being obvious allusions to relationships of the sort in canon (and non-canon) material.

 

I'm just pointing out what the official answer is, since the question was specifically directed at Greg's actions, and I have the words of Greg conveniently on hand. In this case, it does not necessarily imply that the official answer is logically sound or even endorsed by me.

 

Personally I like the idea of a universe platonic given the ridiculous amount of romance plots in even the most unrelated-to-that stories, but given the amount of romantic hints 2001-05, I'm not sure this story qualifies, or even should qualify.  

[Master Inika]

I'm just pointing out what the official answer is, since the question was specifically directed at Greg's actions, and I have the words of Greg conveniently on hand. In this case, it does not necessarily imply that the official answer is logically sound or even endorsed by me.

 

 

Personally I like the idea of a universe platonic given the ridiculous amount of romance plots in even the most unrelated-to-that stories, but given the amount of romantic hints 2001-05, I'm not sure this story qualifies, or even should qualify.  

I agree, I sometimes feel like I'm the only one who didn't feel like the Matoran romances "had" to be canon. It's cute and I love fanart and fanfics about it, but it wouldn't make sense in the official storyline for them to be there. In addition, the close friendships between Jaller/Hahli and Huki/Maku are still canon. That's not a "worse" type of relationship than outright romance. We can still be happy for the characters as being just friends.

[Kakaru]

I'm just pointing out what the official answer is, since the question was specifically directed at Greg's actions, and I have the words of Greg conveniently on hand. In this case, it does not necessarily imply that the official answer is logically sound or even endorsed by me.

 

Personally I like the idea of a universe platonic given the ridiculous amount of romance plots in even the most unrelated-to-that stories, but given the amount of romantic hints 2001-05, I'm not sure this story qualifies, or even should qualify.

Greg's explanation was problematic and improperly representative of realistic relationships. The point of my post was to deconstruct his reasoning, not yours.

 

 

 

I also ship Gali and Kopaka (which is a far better pairing than Tahu and Gali)

 

 

it's too obvious to ship my friend

Edited July 27, 2014 by Kakaru

[ALVIS]

This thread has rapidly derailed into a shipping thread, and it's absolutely glorious.

[Pomegranate]

If you can have a programming glitch go so horribly wrong that an entire world of biomechanical worker drones running a giant robot become sentient and develop a culture with mythos and traditions and spooky stories about being sent away for not working hard and build cities and play sports and have deep friendships and have very elaborate ways of verbally insulting eachother and build shrines and temples and carve statues and make art and play instruments and soar on birds and have wars and fight evil with superpowers... NOT developing romance and love wouldn't make sense, not the other way around. It's a stone's throw away from "deep friendship" and they already show love for their work and love for beauty in nature. I will never understand how it's "not necessary because they don't have biological reproduction", 'cause they sure as heck didn't need anything else they developed. Who would it be hurting? Nobody, except maybe the people who take the whole "they call eachother brother and sister" thing way too literally. Maybe.

Everyone is questioning romance being noncanon way more than I ever remember anyone questioning the validity of robots being in love before it was decanonized, so I've always felt like it was a matter of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."
 
In any case, it certainly doesn't stop anyone from ignoring the rule. Hewkii and Macku are adorable and I will arrange them kissing on my shelf just to spite "canon"

Edited July 27, 2014 by Pomegranate

[Akavakaku]

Since MU inhabitants can't be biologically related, "brother" and "sister" seem more like general terms of friendship. That said, it could be very confusing for a Spherus Magnan to hear how those terms are used.

 

Back to the main topic, my main belief is that MU inhabitants can and do feel romantic attraction, but (a) since they don't marry for personal reasons or reproduce, having such a relationship is seen as a slight but harmless oddity, and (b) they have very little in their language or culture in the way of means of expressing such feelings. Maybe the norm for them is not to experience romantic love at all?

[Alyska]

 

Actually, I feel like Hahli and Jaller kind of separated by the time '06 rolled around. They've been nothing but professional around each other since Power Play. Sad story, I know, but not every relationship works out.

 

Hewkii and Macku, on the other hand, obviously still have a thing going, even though we haven't seen them in the same place since 2003.

Actually, I'm kinda questioning the thing between Hahli and Jaller too, because remember how all the toa Nuva call each other 'brother' and 'sister'? Well...

But my excuse for this is that that is simply something exclusive to the Nuva, since they were physically created together and bonded before they were even made.

The Inika were all friends with each other before and after the transformation, and that's how they saw each other. But so far as I can tell they never called each other brother and sister. (I never got to read all the Bionicle novels, so I don't know)

 

But on the topic of Hewkii x Macku, it's been getting very hard to ship them, with Hewkii's transformation into a toa. And in the alternate universe where Mata-Nui is a giant mega-city, Macku talks of Hewkii's death like it was of no matter to her. I was hoping for a quick add on to that moment like "she said with great sadness in her voice", just to keep it vague to those who still want to believe in their relationship.

 

 

EDIT: Does anyone else ship Lesovikk and Nikila? They were described heavily as "best friends" and she's the only one from Lesovikk's old team that he actually bothers to describe, showing that she meant a lot to him. It's like a sad love story, and it gets even better with the introduction of the Red Star and the possibility of her still being alive!

 

I can't remember many examples from the Mahri, but Hahli calls Matoro "brother" at least once (which is a huge shame, because I would probably ship them were it not for that- I liked her with Jaller as a Matoran, but I dislike the direction his character took as a Toa- Matoro had a lot more in common with her).

 

And no, no you are not the only one who likes Nikila and Lesovikk! I was really looking forward to the progression of the Red Star arc, because Lesovikk's inclusion in that serial suggested that we'd see her again. Heck, even as just friends, the little snippet we saw of them showed that they had a great dynamic. I really wanted to see their reunion because he'd have become bitter and cynical and wouldn't believe it was really her, and she would be kinda shell-shocked and weary from spending thousands of years up there, and then after days of trying desperately to convince him, she'd finally succeed and they'd hug and they'd go on adventures together, and even though they'd both changed so much they'd start the process of making each other's lives better and healing those old wounds and arrrrrrgh somebody write this fanfic.

 

*Ahem*

 

I like the way Greg writes Hewkii as a Toa- I think that even a platonic team-up between him and Macku would be wonderful. I mean, Macku's pretty fearless, pragmatic and serious as far as Ga-Matoran go, whereas Hewkii's a massive goofball most of the time- it would make for a great interaction- especially when the two are put in a life-threatening situation together. My main objection to their relationship being called a "strong friendship" is that we haven't really been able to see them interacting as friends.

[toa kopaka4372]

Romance is canon in BIONICLE- just not in the Matoran Universe. Sahmad is confirmed to have a lover in-story, and maybe most of have forgotten since it's been 4 years, I remember Greg strongly implied that Kiina had romantic feelings for Mata Nui and that seemed to be confirmed that very affectionate scene with her and Mata Nui in Journey's End and further still by the heartbroken way she held the Ignika in the comics after Mata Nui disappeared. 

 

Personally, I don't mind that romantic love isn't canon in the Matoran Universe. There is an infinite amount of stories out there dedicated solely to romance. Heck, almost every single piece of fiction produced by anyone, anywhere, for any age, has some semblance of romance. I don't think having it in BIONICLE is particularly important, especially with the kind of story it was telling. I kind of dislike whenever this gets brought up, because I get this vibe that people think that a "close friendship" is somehow inferior to a "romantic" one. It's why I dislike the expression "just friends" as well. Why can't we have a genuine platonic strong bond between male and female characters. I love the closeness and love I see in Gali's interactions with Tahu and Kopaka without seeing it in a romantic light.

 

But whatever, if you want to ship, fanfiction exist. Or, you could just make it a headcanon that the MU inhabitants developed romantic love after witnessing it in Spherus Magnan society.

[Pomegranate]

Personally, I don't mind that romantic love isn't canon in the Matoran Universe. There is an infinite amount of stories out there dedicated solely to romance. Heck, almost every single piece of fiction produced by anyone, anywhere, for any age, has some semblance of romance. I don't think having it in BIONICLE is particularly important, especially with the kind of story it was telling.

The problem everyone has is that it's one thing to ignore the romance and focus on other things, but outright taking it away and saying, "nope, not happening ever, it's just how this fictional world works, sorry"? It's unnecessary and brings way more attention to it than it needs to. Would it have been hard to say "there are no canon pairings?" It accomplishes the same thing. Instead, folks are left grumpy because, sure, there's sooo much romance out there in literally every other work of fiction and media, but we aren't allowed to see it or even speculate it in this one, which we happen to really really enjoy.

 

Why even?

 

 

Seems rather drastic just for the sake of "Don't get the wrong idea kids oh ho ho"

 

Sahmad and Kiina may have had hearts, but romance was decanonized long before they even appeared and that's two characters out of hundreds of others. It's like a consolation prize, and a lousy one at that :/

Edited July 27, 2014 by Pomegranate

[Jakura Nuva]

 

I'm just pointing out what the official answer is, since the question was specifically directed at Greg's actions, and I have the words of Greg conveniently on hand. In this case, it does not necessarily imply that the official answer is logically sound or even endorsed by me.

 

Personally I like the idea of a universe platonic given the ridiculous amount of romance plots in even the most unrelated-to-that stories, but given the amount of romantic hints 2001-05, I'm not sure this story qualifies, or even should qualify.

Greg's explanation was problematic and improperly representative of realistic relationships. The point of my post was to deconstruct his reasoning, not yours.

 

 

 

I also ship Gali and Kopaka (which is a far better pairing than Tahu and Gali)

 

 

it's too obvious to ship my friend

 

 

[Banana Gunz]

 

 

Actually, I feel like Hahli and Jaller kind of separated by the time '06 rolled around. They've been nothing but professional around each other since Power Play. Sad story, I know, but not every relationship works out.

 

Hewkii and Macku, on the other hand, obviously still have a thing going, even though we haven't seen them in the same place since 2003.

Actually, I'm kinda questioning the thing between Hahli and Jaller too, because remember how all the toa Nuva call each other 'brother' and 'sister'? Well...

But my excuse for this is that that is simply something exclusive to the Nuva, since they were physically created together and bonded before they were even made.

The Inika were all friends with each other before and after the transformation, and that's how they saw each other. But so far as I can tell they never called each other brother and sister. (I never got to read all the Bionicle novels, so I don't know)

 

But on the topic of Hewkii x Macku, it's been getting very hard to ship them, with Hewkii's transformation into a toa. And in the alternate universe where Mata-Nui is a giant mega-city, Macku talks of Hewkii's death like it was of no matter to her. I was hoping for a quick add on to that moment like "she said with great sadness in her voice", just to keep it vague to those who still want to believe in their relationship.

 

 

EDIT: Does anyone else ship Lesovikk and Nikila? They were described heavily as "best friends" and she's the only one from Lesovikk's old team that he actually bothers to describe, showing that she meant a lot to him. It's like a sad love story, and it gets even better with the introduction of the Red Star and the possibility of her still being alive!

 

I can't remember many examples from the Mahri, but Hahli calls Matoro "brother" at least once (which is a huge shame, because I would probably ship them were it not for that- I liked her with Jaller as a Matoran, but I dislike the direction his character took as a Toa- Matoro had a lot more in common with her).

 

And no, no you are not the only one who likes Nikila and Lesovikk! I was really looking forward to the progression of the Red Star arc, because Lesovikk's inclusion in that serial suggested that we'd see her again. Heck, even as just friends, the little snippet we saw of them showed that they had a great dynamic. I really wanted to see their reunion because he'd have become bitter and cynical and wouldn't believe it was really her, and she would be kinda shell-shocked and weary from spending thousands of years up there, and then after days of trying desperately to convince him, she'd finally succeed and they'd hug and they'd go on adventures together, and even though they'd both changed so much they'd start the process of making each other's lives better and healing those old wounds and arrrrrrgh somebody write this fanfic.

 

*Ahem*

 

I like the way Greg writes Hewkii as a Toa- I think that even a platonic team-up between him and Macku would be wonderful. I mean, Macku's pretty fearless, pragmatic and serious as far as Ga-Matoran go, whereas Hewkii's a massive goofball most of the time- it would make for a great interaction- especially when the two are put in a life-threatening situation together. My main objection to their relationship being called a "strong friendship" is that we haven't really been able to see them interacting as friends.

 

LOL haha!

 

The only thing I somewhat disagree with you about is how you see Macku and Hewkii. Macku kinda reminds me of a not-particularly-serious-fan-girl-type that has posters of Hewkii in her hut. In the Bohrok animations, Hewkii seems a little more somewhat serious, kinda even not sure how to do things around her, though later in the comics when he's fighting Gadunka we can see he's a real joker!

 

Though either way their relationship shows that they both, no matter their personalities, is still something just developing past friendship (but they both know how they probably feel for each other) and Hewkii's transformation into a toa actually just makes things more intense because now Macku's just waiting for him to come home from his adventures and it gets pretty bitter-sweet!

 

And did you guys know that Hewkii got swimming lessons while he was in Ga-Koro? I'll (100%) assume it was Macku who taught him, and that's just too cute.      

[Lyichir]

Greg repeatedly said that the Matoran Universe inhabitants, lacking biological reproduction, had no need for romance. Personally, I think that was just an excuse. Greg's own stories occasionally featured romantic subtext, with the most prominent example being Matau and Nokama (arguably, Onewa and Krahka or Balta and Dalu would also apply). I think the actual reason for the "no romance rule" was to neatly avoid having to deal with shipping-related questions from fans. He already got his fair share of ridiculous questions as part of the Ask Greg topic, and a willful ignorance of romance kept him from having to address relationship questions altogether. If that was the true motivation, it seems to have worked—fanfic writers were free to ignore the rule at their leisure, but the lack of officially sanctioned couples DID keep Bionicle from having any of the shipping wars common in other fandoms. Don't get me wrong; I think the rule was wrong-headed and I often missed the early romances in Bionicle like Macku and Hewkii. And I'd like that rule to go away now that Greg's interaction with fans is more limited. But I understand what a canny move the rule was in getting the most out of fan interactions while avoiding the sensitive issue of romance.

[Jakura Nuva]

Greg repeatedly said that the Matoran Universe inhabitants, lacking biological reproduction, had no need for romance. Personally, I think that was just an excuse. Greg's own stories occasionally featured romantic subtext, with the most prominent example being Matau and Nokama (arguably, Onewa and Krahka or Balta and Dalu would also apply). I think the actual reason for the "no romance rule" was to neatly avoid having to deal with shipping-related questions from fans. He already got his fair share of ridiculous questions as part of the Ask Greg topic, and a willful ignorance of romance kept him from having to address relationship questions altogether. If that was the true motivation, it seems to have worked—fanfic writers were free to ignore the rule at their leisure, but the lack of officially sanctioned couples DID keep Bionicle from having any of the shipping wars common in other fandoms. Don't get me wrong; I think the rule was wrong-headed and I often missed the early romances in Bionicle like Macku and Hewkii. And I'd like that rule to go away now that Greg's interaction with fans is more limited. But I understand what a canny move the rule was in getting the most out of fan interactions while avoiding the sensitive issue of romance.

 

You know, if/when Bionicle returns, it's likely that there will be a TV show; and if there is one, it's possible that there will be representations of MU romance in that. I mean, look at Ninjago: Masters of Spinjitzu.

Edited July 27, 2014 by Jakura Nuva

[Heir of the Chronicler]

Short answer is: because Greg Farshtey doesn't see the point of romance if there's no biological reproduction fun time involved.

 

Of course, the real world itself demonstrates the folly of this notion with asexuals, who are entirely capable of having meaningful romantic relationships, even if those relationships are not "consummated".

 

So it's really a silly rule, one which everyone who's anyone has proceeded to entirely ignore when creating fanon. Ship on, Banana, ship on.

 

100% all of this. Hahli putting a flower on Jala's mask was an awesome nightcap on the Bohrok saga

 

It's a "canon rule" I've ignored, just like everybody else here. It was convenient for Greg, as Lyichir says, but it brought a very human aspect to a world of ancient, eldritch super-robots.

 

- Heir

[Kakaru]

 

it's too obvious to ship my friend

 

 

I personally don't believe their characters have the proper chemistry to survive in a healthy relationship together, particularly contrasted against the idea of Kopaka and Gali. Plus literally everyone has been trying to ship them for the past 14 years because of the myth that opposites attract (fire+water) and this makes for good relationships, which it generally doesn't in realistic terms.

 

(also just a heads up: image-only posts, whether or not they have text, are still considered spam around here because people end up posting reaction gifs instead of contributing to discussion)

 

Greg repeatedly said that the Matoran Universe inhabitants, lacking biological reproduction, had no need for romance. Personally, I think that was just an excuse. Greg's own stories occasionally featured romantic subtext, with the most prominent example being Matau and Nokama (arguably, Onewa and Krahka or Balta and Dalu would also apply). I think the actual reason for the "no romance rule" was to neatly avoid having to deal with shipping-related questions from fans. He already got his fair share of ridiculous questions as part of the Ask Greg topic, and a willful ignorance of romance kept him from having to address relationship questions altogether. If that was the true motivation, it seems to have worked—fanfic writers were free to ignore the rule at their leisure, but the lack of officially sanctioned couples DID keep Bionicle from having any of the shipping wars common in other fandoms. Don't get me wrong; I think the rule was wrong-headed and I often missed the early romances in Bionicle like Macku and Hewkii. And I'd like that rule to go away now that Greg's interaction with fans is more limited. But I understand what a canny move the rule was in getting the most out of fan interactions while avoiding the sensitive issue of romance.

Nail on head. The problem really is as simple as Greg avoiding a complex issue with a few poorly-chosen words.

[bonesiii]

@Bones- Hewkii and Macku's interest in each other featured most prominently in MNOG and the online animations, but it was also heavily supported by the official character bios as well. Same goes for Hahli and Jaller, whose romance even made it into MoL. I think saying it was never canon is a tad unfair, since the early story team, assuming they're the ones who wrote the bios, seem to have been all for it. 

What bios are you talking about? I don't seem to recall anything like that offhand, and checking just now, there's nothing like that in the original comic bios (end of comic 2). And yes, the moviemakers did that too, but those also had a lot of non-canon stuff. Bionicle had a lot of non-canon or semi-canon things over the years, especially in the earlier years. It may have been in some web bios, but those would probably also have been written by the web team. I think it was just a matter of people assuming there was romance since romance exists in our world, and writing it in multiple times without checking. The moviemakers might also have been referring back to the MNOG too.

 

Regardless, you're perfectly free to imagine it differently yourself.

[Jakura Nuva]

 

 

it's too obvious to ship my friend

 

I personally don't believe their characters have the proper chemistry to survive in a healthy relationship together, particularly contrasted against the idea of Kopaka and Gali. Plus literally everyone has been trying to ship them for the past 14 years because of the myth that opposites attract (fire+water) and this makes for good relationships, which it generally doesn't in realistic terms.

(also just a heads up: image-only posts, whether or not they have text, are still considered spam around here because people end up posting reaction gifs instead of contributing to discussion)

Greg repeatedly said that the Matoran Universe inhabitants, lacking biological reproduction, had no need for romance. Personally, I think that was just an excuse. Greg's own stories occasionally featured romantic subtext, with the most prominent example being Matau and Nokama (arguably, Onewa and Krahka or Balta and Dalu would also apply). I think the actual reason for the "no romance rule" was to neatly avoid having to deal with shipping-related questions from fans. He already got his fair share of ridiculous questions as part of the Ask Greg topic, and a willful ignorance of romance kept him from having to address relationship questions altogether. If that was the true motivation, it seems to have worked—fanfic writers were free to ignore the rule at their leisure, but the lack of officially sanctioned couples DID keep Bionicle from having any of the shipping wars common in other fandoms. Don't get me wrong; I think the rule was wrong-headed and I often missed the early romances in Bionicle like Macku and Hewkii. And I'd like that rule to go away now that Greg's interaction with fans is more limited. But I understand what a canny move the rule was in getting the most out of fan interactions while avoiding the sensitive issue of romance.

 

Nail on head. The problem really is as simple as Greg avoiding a complex issue with a few poorly-chosen words.

That may be true, but I still can't see Gali with Kopaka... he doesn't seem like the kind of guy interested in a relationship.

Edited July 27, 2014 by Jakura Nuva

[Katuko]

But on the topic of Hewkii x Macku, it's been getting very hard to ship them, with Hewkii's transformation into a toa.

True love never dies, they say. If him being a Toa suddenly caused them to lose all feelings for each other, then it would have been a pretty weak love in the first place, don't you think?

 

EDIT: Does anyone else ship Lesovikk and Nikila? They were described heavily as "best friends" and she's the only one from Lesovikk's old team that he actually bothers to describe, showing that she meant a lot to him. It's like a sad love story, and it gets even better with the introduction of the Red Star and the possibility of her still being alive!

I prefer not to, since we only have, like, one or two lines from her total. Why ship someone we don't even know?

 

This thread has rapidly derailed into a shipping thread, and it's absolutely glorious.

Ever since I saw the (joke) fan art: Krika x Takanuva forever.

 

I've never shipped the Toa Mata in my headcanon at all. I didn't appear to me like there was any base for romantic relationships in their team, unlike the much more obvious Hewkii/Macku pair. I mean, in addition to being good friends, they appeared to have dolls of each other in their homes. Could be Macku being a fangirl, but her teaching him to swim etc. makes their relationship much closer. They could very well have met because she approached him after thinking his Kolhii talent was cool, though.

 

For me, Jaller x Hahli teasing seemed to come out of the blue in the movie for me, until I remembered the online episode where it was hinted as well. For some reason Jaller from the Flash media feels like an entirely different character to me, though, than the Jaller in Mask of Light. I think it's because his serious demeanor in MNOG (and the frown on the Hau just makes it more apparent) clashed with the smoother and "kinder" expression he has throughout the movie. That, and his voice actor.

 

 

In all honesty, though: I'm glad BIONICLE only teased a few relationships back at the beginning, and otherwise didn't do any romance plots. Of the main characters there was usually only one female per group, and shipping them with another team member just because has always seemed forced to me. So I don't ship Gali x any Toa Mata, I don't ship Nokama x any Toa Metru, and I don't ship Nikila with Lesovikk just because they happen to be the only two members of their team that we know the names of. For all we know Lesovikk's team was filled with 3-4 other female Toa that had the same attitude.

Edited July 27, 2014 by Katuko

[Uncle K.]

I ship Hewkii and Macku like any sensible person. I also ship Gali and Kopaka (which is a far better pairing than Tahu and Gali) and I ship Krahka and Onewa by popular demand.

Woah you are just a sensible person

 

Krahka and Onewa's very brief moments were the highlights of a very watery, dull book series at any rate. (Kopaka was far too obsessed with trying to one-up Tahu to have eyes for Gali as well) Bionicle may have been a kid's toy... but then again what is Barbie and Ken? (Not to mention the story was a different entity and occasionally tackled complex "issues" etc) I guess that might be why the rare romance that rears its head seems like a big deal to those that want it and not a big deal to anyone else, which probably did a better job than most options for the story.

 

After playing through the MNOLG with my daughter, I will say her favorite part was Huki and Maku's innocent flirting + plushies, and yet she couldn't care less about any of the relationships in the Mask of Light. I guess she's just discerning.

Edited July 27, 2014 by Funcle K.

[Oroki]

After playing through the MNOLG with my daughter, I will say her favorite part was Huki and Maku's innocent flirting + plushies, and yet she couldn't care less about any of the relationships in the Mask of Light. I guess she's just discerning.

Best. Dad. Ever.

 

~~~

 

If the de-canonization was to make bionicle appeal more to little boys, but I would be a pretty darn sad attempt. MNOG had happened. The bohrok animatins had happened. Children don't care about what's canon anyway. It's just a guideline for the creators. Lego would've drawn in a larger audience if they'd just rolled with it. Romance in constraction is an awesome combo that made Bionicle stand out, because some kids get bored by the generic macho-culture. I think the amount of fan-ships speaks for itself.

 

That being sad, ANYONE SHIEPPZ THESE??!?!!?

 

 

 

 

[Alyska]

How about Gali with Takanuva? What about a one-sided crush on Takanuva's part? They've always had a special bond, and Gali understood Takua better than any Matoran ever did. (I have a personal headcanon that after Gali left Karda Nui in the past, Takua was devastated and decided to honour her by changing his armour colour to blue. This of course is problematic for a male Av-Matoran as he risks revealing not only himself but all his friends to those who would want to harm Av-Matoran. This is why the OOMN singled out him in particular, forced him to change his armour colour and then brainwashed him and left him in Metru Nui- they decided that both he and all the other Av-Matoran would be safer that way. His blue mask was a remnant of that time.)

 

As for Kopaka... I can kind of see the point of those who like him with Pohatu (It has the same sort of appeal as Holmes/Watson, I suppose), but I have difficulty imagining him with Gali, to be honest. Gali certainly has the intellectual connection with Kopaka, but not the emotional one.

 

I suppose, returning to the topic at hand, the possibility of a reboot means that romance could become canon in the new continuity. So I guess the question is, how could Matoran express romantic affection? Would dating be a thing? Do the masks make kissing impractical? Would it be usual for Matoran to move to another village to live with their significant other? One defence I remember Greg using is that the characters will only ever be able to hold hands, and that there can be no progression from there . An exaggeration, perhaps, (Do the character development and changes in their interactions not count as progression?) but it is certainly worth considering...

[Pomegranate]

How about Gali with Takanuva? What about a one-sided crush on Takanuva's part? They've always had a special bond, and Gali understood Takua better than any Matoran ever did. (I have a personal headcanon that after Gali left Karda Nui in the past, Takua was devastated and decided to honour her by changing his armour colour to blue. This of course is problematic for a male Av-Matoran as he risks revealing not only himself but all his friends to those who would want to harm Av-Matoran. This is why the OOMN singled out him in particular, forced him to change his armour colour and then brainwashed him and left him in Metru Nui- they decided that both he and all the other Av-Matoran would be safer that way. His blue mask was a remnant of that time.)

 

As for Kopaka... I can kind of see the point of those who like him with Pohatu (It has the same sort of appeal as Holmes/Watson, I suppose), but I have difficulty imagining him with Gali, to be honest. Gali certainly has the intellectual connection with Kopaka, but not the emotional one.

 

I suppose, returning to the topic at hand, the possibility of a reboot means that romance could become canon in the new continuity. So I guess the question is, how could Matoran express romantic affection? Would dating be a thing? Do the masks make kissing impractical? Would it be usual for Matoran to move to another village to live with their significant other? One defence I remember Greg using is that the characters will only ever be able to hold hands, and that there can be no progression from there . An exaggeration, perhaps, (Do the character development and changes in their interactions not count as progression?) but it is certainly worth considering...

Holding hands is better than nothing, and honestly it's not like they even need more than that. You don't need to hear a couple proclaim love for each other or see them kissing to know they're romantically involved; it's all in the way they act towards or around eachother, and the things they do for them. In MNOG, it was enough for Huki and Maku to have little plushies of eachother in their homes for everyone to get the message clearly. I'd say "dates" would be an appropriate thing in Bionicle, considering there's all this work to be done all the time and its a huge group effort, so escaping from all that to just spend some relaxation time with a particular individual is pretty special. As for smooching, I think that they'd probably substitute a fist bump for kissing, as with every other social gesture in Bionicle For the thing about moving to another village, I'd say that it probably depends on whether it interferes with their work. Since Spherus Magna isn't a super specialized robot maintenance system in disguise, I don't think it would be a problem for the different element populations to mix and mingle anymore.

 

Kopaka and Pohatu works so well because we know that Kopaka secretly has a soft spot for him even though he initially did not like him much at all. It's adorable

[believe victims]

Okay I don't know if Greg has ever covered this, but I have a big serious question: if romance is non-canon, then how does a big chunk of web of Shadows work? Why does Sidorak want to marry Roodaka if there are no romantic feelings? Why is there a CONCEPT of marriage if there are no romantic feelings? That seems to completely contradict the whole thing.

[bonesiii]

Okay I don't know if Greg has ever covered this, but I have a big serious question: if romance is non-canon, then how does a big chunk of web of Shadows work? Why does Sidorak want to marry Roodaka if there are no romantic feelings? Why is there a CONCEPT of marriage if there are no romantic feelings? That seems to completely contradict the whole thing.

Yeah, it pretty much does. I believe the answer they used was that it was some sort of political alliance. Also, I think that came from the movie people too (certainly it was in a movie, but I think the other sources also included it to be consistent with that, if bad memory serves).