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Headcanon vs Canon, or, why does a reboot even matter?


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So, I want to get something off my chest which has been bothering me since, like... 2001, really. Why do we, as the BIONICLE fandom, care so much about what GregF and the story team arbitrarily decided was, and wasn't, canon? Hear me out.

 

It all began with the Matoran- or, I should say, the Tohunga. Now, I fully understand the reason why TLG officially changed their name. Speaking for myself, I thought Tohunga sounded better... and so, I call them Tohunga to this day. Now, although it may have begun with the Matoran, the Word of Canon marched forward through the years. The Nuva came, and when I saw Lewa had buck teeth, Gali had a pig snout, and Onua had both T-Rex arms and chainsaws, I despaired. I remember sitting in my parent's kitchen, looking over the Lego Mania Magazine, lamenting that I would never see my beloved Olda officially represented again. (I'm sorry, Tahu Stars... I want to count you, but you're still an Agori wearing a Hau to me.)

 

So, I made my first big decision regarding Bionicle canon: I was going to disregard the Nuva, and carry on with the Olda. Besides, they made no sense! They were already powerful masters of their elements... why were there 6 magical cylinders in the Bahrag's chamber floor, acting as a level up reward in case they were defeated? In what way had they become more powerful? How could they be more masterful? Who scattered Kanohi Nuva across the island? When had they been created?! Thus, my Toa faced the Bohrok Kal and the Rahkshi wearing their iconic Gold masks, and I didn't own a Nuva until years afterward...

 

Metru Nui came and went. I remember Greg promising to me, via PM, in 2003, that I would enjoy 2004's story. And, although I was initially hesitant to embrace the technologically advanced Metru Nui after the primitive and tribal Mata Nui, it came to replace my interest in Bionicle's first years. But, then, in 2005, things started getting out of hand... and by the time we hit YO YO PIRAKA, I was in fully-fledged denial.

 

I didn't like 2006. I still don't. I literally cannot name anything I enjoyed about 2006s sets or story in any way. But, whatever... I disregarded it. I expanded on my Metru Nui storyline. I stopped caring about canon, and I made my own BIONICLE headcanon, which has fully replaced my interest in the official storyline ever since. My enjoyment is in crafting the best BIONICLE world I can... and no, I haven't shared it anywhere, because I'm not trying to prove that I can do better, and I don't expect anyone but me to care about it.

 

2001 followed the same template as other LEGO themes of that era, such as the Adventurers and Rock Raiders, and which many themes have emulated since: LEGO gave us the setting, the characters, and the conflict, and told us to go to town. To this day, the entire Quest for the Masks remains untold as a sandbox for our own stories to roam free.

 

IMO, GregF's micromanagerial involvement with the community and with the story did us all a disservice, leaving the fandom waiting, with baited breath, for the next sacred revelation to be handed down from on high. Such revelations included... the name Teridax, aka, something else I've wholeheartedly ignored.

 

So, as we move toward 2015, and I read the innumerable comments about how TLG needs to give us closure to this serial or that character, or bring back X, Y, and Z... I find myself wondering, why does it really matter? Since BIONICLE ended, numerous projects have sprung up- either retelling past years of Bionicle, or carrying the story forward from where it left off. In my eyes, they're all equal with the canon. Canon is whatever we, as individuals, choose it to be.

 

Bionicle, IMO, makes for a good Batman... on his 75th birthday, are you going to say the Nolan films are Canon, and everything else isn't? How do you decide which to follow, the Arkham games, or the films? Maybe you're like my Dad, and actually enjoyed the 60's TV show... back when it was airing new episodes on TV. The different interpretations, canon or not, don't matter- what matters is the core story which we share, and where we take it from there.

 

But, that's just my take-away, and I'd be happy to hear what ya'll think.

- Heir

Edited by Heir of the Chronicler
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Why do we, as the BIONICLE fandom, care so much about what GregF and the story team arbitrarily decided was, and wasn't, canon? Hear me out.

First, most of it isn't really arbitrary. That's a somewhat common misconception, but a combination of conscious and subconscious reasons, based on the background "story bible" which fans largely were kept in the dark on, factored into every decision. Some didn't stay consistent with it perfectly but people make mistakes; we understand that.

 

Second, it was their gift to us; they were the source, and we are the fans. :) In short -- it's their story.

 

That's basically how storytelling works -- humans have a natural drive of curiosity about the storytelling of other people. :) It's part of how we explore who we are, and who others are. There's also the thrill of discovery, which is strongest when somebody else is making the things you discover (versus yourself). Plus, there's the way it feeds discussions among fans. Others' takes on it feed a bit of discussion, but I've always seen way more around canon, and having canon also can inspire alternate versions by fans too.

 

I don't have time at moment to go through the rest of this, but that's the basic idea as I understand psychology. Even if we don't understand it, it's how people relate to stories of all kinds, so certainly isn't surprising. ^_^

Edited by bonesiii
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The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive)Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants

My Bionicle Fanfiction  (Google Drive folder, eventually planned to have PDFs of all of it)

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It's good to hear someone willing to call out the "Golden Years" of 01-03. I think the main reason people gave such value to the official BIONICLE canon was that, at 2003 the latest, fans realized something that set BIONICLE apart was the strong narrative. Simply put, it was so good an enjoyable (to me at least) that people didn't want to "break" it.

 

As for BIONICLE 2015, I'd be happiest if it just started up, say, one million years after Spherus Magna I reformed. Ignore all the problems and start 100% anew. I feel like, if new BIONICLE takes after Hero Factory, it will be a more open-ended story like you preferred.

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I definitely agree with you, though my headcanon is probably vastly different. I was enamored by the mysticism in the early Bionicle Universe, and the blatant disregard for it that came later made BIONICLE feel like a completely unrelated story. 

 

I was a bit upset about the nuva at first, for the reasons you mentioned (Gali's mask still bothers me), but it didn't take me long to accept them as pretty cool. The metru era is actually when I started to feel uncomfortable; the idea of there being other toa wasn't too upsetting (even though it made Takua's transformation seem far less significant), but the idea that all of the Tohunga lived on a completely different island, underground (yet with suns? I never really got that), in a completely different world. The change was just too radical for me. Don't get me wrong, as a stand alone story it was fantastic... but it was too different. The visorak is where I drew the line. From thereon out I basically reject everything. 

 

I get that a lot of this came from a "story bible," but we don't have access to that bible. We don't know what they changed, added, or anything else. And frankly, it doesn't matter that much. It's a toy line. The entire point was that we used our imagination; the story was always just a guide. 

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I interpret canon as meaning "official", and the only stuff that's official is the content put out by LEGO and Greg's word, so that's what I consider canon. Anything else is fanfiction to me, which is fine, but I don't consider part of the actual story.

 

Tbh, I felt like BIONICLE's weakest years in terms of pure plot were the first few; the story really began to grow into the wonderful epic it would become 2004 onwards. The first three years had phenomenal worldbuilding and lovable characters, but the plot was just decent; it really began to become great once Metru Nui came into the picture, IMO. Note that I became a fan during the Metru Nui saga and so don't have the same nostalgia for the Mata Nui years that many here on BZP have, so that obviously affects my opinion of this.  

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Why does canon matter? Well that's because that's the story we all have to share with each other because that's the story we were given. I would love to have a lot of different stuff added and changed in the story but then that's creating my own head-canon.

 

And that's not bad that I like to make changes as I see fit, but canon matters because what if everyone disregarded the canon and instead cared only about their head-canon, then the community would be a mess. Whenever people would talk to each other they wouldn't be able to communicate properly because they both are talking about different things!

 

Plus, what you might see as bad, I sort of enjoyed. I can't say the years 2006-onward were as good as the time on Mata-Nui and Metru-Nui but I still thought things like the quest for the Mask of Life and others were interesting to say the least.

 

Head-canon, is the canon you would like, but not the canon everybody identifies with. The Bionicle community is about the Bionicle we got, rather than the Bionicle we completely want.

 

 

I know how you feel though; I've always felt that Bionicle didn't make a whole lot of sense in some parts and didn't live up to its full potential in others. But we still have to face that canon, is by far more official, whether or not it is better than what we like.

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It matters because while you may not care about the story, others do. And there are differing opinions and differing headcanons. I too have headcanons, though I usually keep them along the lines of the actual story, just with minor differences but the same overall outcome. But I also understand that the true canon has a higher standing than anything I come up with, and so rewrite my headcanon whenever I feel I need to.

 

And, on top of that, I personally loved the Toa Nuva's designs, and found that story-wise my "golden age" was 06-08. That was when things took a far more serious turn.

 

YO YO PIRAKA

That was a marketing thing, at no point in the story were the Piraka ever actually depicted that way.

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Okay, read the rest now, sorry for delay:

 

It all began with the Matoran- or, I should say, the Tohunga. Now, I fully understand the reason why TLG officially changed their name. Speaking for myself, I thought Tohunga sounded better... and so, I call them Tohunga to this day. Now, although it may have begun with the Matoran, the Word of Canon marched forward through the years.

Not sure I'm following this part. There was canon before that retcon. And as you say, their reason for changing that was understandable. I guess you're just saying that's the first time you became conscious of disliking part of Bionicle, but such a thing is basically inevitable in any continuing story. :)

 

The Nuva came, and when I saw Lewa had buck teeth, Gali had a pig snout, and Onua had both T-Rex arms and chainsaws, I despaired. I remember sitting in my parent's kitchen, looking over the Lego Mania Magazine, lamenting that I would never see my beloved Olda officially represented again. (I'm sorry, Tahu Stars... I want to count you, but you're still an Agori wearing a Hau to me.)

 

So, I made my first big decision regarding Bionicle canon: I was going to disregard the Nuva, and carry on with the Olda. Besides, they made no sense! They were already powerful masters of their elements... why were there 6 magical cylinders in the Bahrag's chamber floor

Not much objection here, although I think we all understood this was mostly from the sets. The first three things you said didn't come from the story team, so how do they fit a "march of canon" argument? But yes, they could have done the story of the transformation better. This is part of why I think new story (if it comes) should take place in the future, as the adaptive armor made the need for these obscure, implausible transformations go poof. (At least for those characters, and it could be expanded to others.)

 

However, being even more powerful users of elements does make sense... :P

 

And there's a certain "cool for being so boldy crazy" aspect of the death traps in the Bahrag's floor.

 

acting as a level up reward in case they were defeated?

The thing is, it's a mystery story -- it makes sense we wouldn't know about EP destroying you if not destined right away. (So if it was your destiny to fight the Bahrag, you get a powerup rather than be killed.) Yes, it was confusing, but by then, that was par for the course for Bionicle. I do think this year overdid it though, as there are still unanswered questions, like about the Nuva cube.
 

I didn't like 2006. I still don't. I literally cannot name anything I enjoyed about 2006s sets or story in any way.

Personally there's a ton I liked about 2006. Even Yo Yo Piraka (I mean come on... listen to it... it's infectious :P), though I get why people who have more of a preference for a single unified style all throughout wouldn't.

 

My enjoyment is in crafting the best BIONICLE world I can... and no, I haven't shared it anywhere, because I'm not trying to prove that I can do better, and I don't expect anyone but me to care about it.

Well, right there's the point. :P If everybody, including LEGO, thought that way, you never would have been given that gift of the original spark that led to your version. And how could you know nobody will like it? Why must it be about trying to "prove" something? It's okay for some others not to like it. I think that seems to be the bottom line with you -- it seems like you have an almost need for things to be universally liked, or not shared at all. If you somehow fight that root idea, the rest can fall into place -- whether sharing your vision or enjoying somebody else's. :)

 

 

IMO, GregF's micromanagerial involvement with the community and with the story did us all a disservice, leaving the fandom waiting, with baited breath, for the next sacred revelation to be handed down from on high.

What you seem to be missing (and honestly, I'm surprised you still are after all this time), is that many people enjoyed that experience... and most who didn't, didn't get worked up about it -- just ignore what you don't like. :)

 

Such revelations included... the name Teridax, aka, something else I've wholeheartedly ignored.

You have to keep in mind that there will always be hits and misses in any storytelling, on the taste front (things that will be disliked by some... and things disliked by most!). The producers of LOST said it well once... lemme see if I can dig that up... Here we go:

 

DL: We did 121 hours of Lost. Arguably only 15 to 20 of them were subpar, bordering on turds. It would be great to pretend those episodes never happened, but I love the fact that we're still talking about Nikki and Paulo. Sometimes the mistake, the thing that wasn't good, is the thing that's really part of the legacy of a show like ours.

 

[...]

 

DL: Hindsight is 20/20, but the moral of the writing for me is that when you're feeling very scared and nervous about something and you're fairly convinced that it could be a massive disaster, that's exactly the idea that you should do. Although it sometimes turned out to be the wrong move, it's when we were pursing things that felt safe that the show was at its least interesting. "The Constant," which is arguably my and Carlton's favorite episode of the show and I know a lot of the fans share that sentiment, is an example. It wasn't like everyone looked at each other and said, "Ah ha!" There were two days of trying to talk ourselves out of it, saying, "We're never going to be able to pull this off." We'd start talking about a more traditional version and then we'd come back to it and get scared of it. So when you start to feel real fear of failure and disaster, don't blink. That's what you must do.

 

 

So, as we move toward 2015, and I read the innumerable comments about how TLG needs to give us closure to this serial or that character, or bring back X, Y, and Z... I find myself wondering, why does it really matter?

It's a matter of taste. This is why I think the serials should always be a side project. If it matters to somebody, they could find out (and it's been the thing driving most discussion for over four years now, so obviously a lot of people are curious). If somebody does care, they could just ignore it. While it shouldn't (IMO) be main plot for a return, they should be finished. But at the same time, I think they should avoid such a situation in the future (presuming Bionicle will eventually end again or need a haitus to build up time for more "new factor").

 

 

Bottom line is, the genius of Bionicle was it created food for kids to talk about the story, compare knowledge of the trivia, chatter excitedly about this detail and that detail -- take that out, and a lot of the fun that drove kids' lives for ten years is gone. :) And if it's not somebody's cup of tea, they can just ignore it. ^_^

Edited by bonesiii
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The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive)Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants

My Bionicle Fanfiction  (Google Drive folder, eventually planned to have PDFs of all of it)

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I'm going to echo what's been said above. And add:

 

If you simply ignore parts of a story you don't like, one could ask why you care about it at all.

You say that as far as you care the Toa mata never became the nuva. Which means the storyline no longer works.

 

The problem with that theory is that, even though you couldn't possibly know the intended path of the story you assumed you could do better. Meaning that before it all came to close you had already decide it wasn't worth your time. And that's all fine and dandy, but if everyone did that we wouldn't be able to discuss it. And since you couldn't have known the ending, there's no way you can simply decide: "that didn't need to happen." Or well, you can, obviously. But it doesn't work on several levels.

 

You mention batman as if there is one definitive batman universe. That's not really how it works. They're basically splinter timelines. They're all valid. The fans don't really get to decide whats canon. They can add to and change but it doesn't change the source material.

 

I could probably go further but it goes into how stories work and I'm sure nobody wants to read that. 

Edited by ~Shockwave~
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To replies:

 

I was enamored by the mysticism in the early Bionicle Universe, and the blatant disregard for it that came later made BIONICLE feel like a completely unrelated story.

 

...(yet with suns? I never really got that)

All of this comes back to taste, of course, but it kind of sounds like you missed that it was intentionally a mystery story -- that means the mysteries were meant to be solved (in general), and things would continue to be introduced that fans didn't understand at first. The suns thing for example was an early clue to Mata Nui being the giant that the people used to live in.

 

Basically, it's whodunnits, but instead of murder being the only mystery, Bionicle is in a genre that opens up anything to be mystery. :) I get why some people missed that -- that kind of misunderstanding is pretty inevitable, especially since this is a relatively new genre (LOST being the other main pioneer of it -- well, it's new among recent fiction, though some older sci-fi authors did it too). It wasn't supposed to be just fantasy with no solution behind it -- just as a whodunnit isn't just setting up that somebody died somehow just for atmosphere. Rather, it was filled with clues and the adventure was in trying to theorize and guess what the answers would be. =D

 

That's basically why this forum division is here. :P I've never seen such a thing fostered by any other LEGO line, and that's no coincidence.

 

I get that a lot of this came from a "story bible," but we don't have access to that bible. We don't know what they changed, added, or anything else.

That's exactly the point. :) We don't know that (or we didn't at the time), so it was an adventure to discover the details over time and see how it all fit together (or most of it :P)! It wasn't something in our heads where nothing would really surprise us. It was exploring somebody else's vision. :)

 

And the best part was that there were so many others also exploring the same vision, so it was like a lot of people were teams, exploring a coherent reality together. It was massively unifying and inspiring to a lot of kids (and some of us old fogies :P).

 

The analogy to a whodunnit is direct.

 

The author knows the details of the murder, why it happened that way, etc. -- and the reader follows the investigators searching clues that at first seem to make no sense, but lead eventually to discovery of the "story bible" secret -- the murder. Or in this case, the giant who needed curing by tiny beings.

 

And frankly, it doesn't matter that much. It's a toy line. The entire point was that we used our imagination; the story was always just a guide.

The key actually is, if you will, that "it doesn't matter" was the tack used in past LEGO lines, and they never built up the massive following as Bionicle precisely because many kids wanted it to matter. :) LEGO finally thought of making it matter, and that was the driving force behind its success for ten years (albeit of course with mistakes along the way).

 

Plus, what you might see as bad, I sort of enjoyed. I can't say the years 2006-onward were as good as the time on Mata-Nui and Metru-Nui but I still thought things like the quest for the Mask of Life and others were interesting to say the least.

To me, the main problems were:

 

1) Atmosphere was still important -- this was often neglected in later years. It's the kind of thing I spend a lot of time trying to bring to those stories in my fanfic versions, because I can see that many of the things people assume they don't like about later years had more to do with a loss of the feel that was in 2001 rather than being bad ideas by themselves. 2001 wasn't wrong at all to revel in the atmosphere. It's just that that was never supposed to be all it had; that was never the core of the story. Later years continued the core, but missed that many fans wanted the atmosphere to always surround it, even as mysteries were solved. Although there was a lot of great atmosphere sprinkled throughout later years too. Just not enough, IMO.

 

2) Yet 2001 did not clue many people in enough that it was a mystery to be solved. Because I absolutely adore that genre (seeing it frankly as the highest possible form of fiction), I was thrilled to later discover this thing I was drawn into was indeed what I was hoping for. But some people who are more traditional fans of fantasy missed the hints to it. That said, I'm honestly not sure how you introduce people to that in-story. I often wonder if there were similar misunderstandings when the first whodunnits blazed that trail.

 

But somehow, a better mix of those things, on both sides, would have made a more enjoyable synthesis of both, IMO, and the experience would have felt better for the majority throughout. (But I don't at all think that this would mean Greg can't answer questions or there wouldn't be a canon.)

The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive)Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants

My Bionicle Fanfiction  (Google Drive folder, eventually planned to have PDFs of all of it)

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YO YO PIRAKA, THE GANG ON THE LOOSE, NOTHING YOU CAN DO...

 

:P Talking serious now, I understand how you feel. I too have a lot of Headcanons that I made over things I don't like about the Storyline. But that's normal I guess, You will never agree 100% with something right ?  :) However, I believe we should be thankful to the story bible we have, because in the end, It's what make this whole site exists ! 

 

Having a headcanon is nothing to be ashamed of. I myself have a headcanon where the Toa Inika never transformed into Toa Mahri, simply because I don't like their designs. 

 

I really want greg or someone else to finish the serials to close the story once and for all. I hate unfinished things. Besides, IMO, the serials were one of the best things that happened in BIONICLE. A lot of things were revealed by them.

 

It's totally okay to change something you don't like and imagine your own. Actually, that's exactly what LEGO wants you to do ! Create new things, new characters, change this universe that LEGO presented us in your own unique way !  :)

 

So, I made my first big decision regarding Bionicle canon: I was going to disregard the Nuva, and carry on with the Olda. Besides, they made no sense! They were already powerful masters of their elements... why were there 6 magical cylinders in the Bahrag's chamber floor, acting as a level up reward in case they were defeated? In what way had they become more powerful? How could they be more masterful? Who scattered Kanohi Nuva across the island? When had they been created?! Thus, my Toa faced the Bohrok Kal and the Rahkshi wearing their iconic Gold masks, and I didn't own a Nuva until years afterward...

 

The pool of EP was supposed to kill them should the Bahrag fail, I believe ? Of course, however, the bahrag never counted that the Toa Mata were destined to transform.

Edited by HoloTheWise
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My problem was not so much with the fact that there was a canon but the way they chose what was canon. Bionicle's story was featured in many different media forms, but there were a lot of discrepancies between them, and I sometimes found it irksome on how they would pick and choose what was canon. (I mean, things like the Piraka kidnapping a band were clearly for marketing and not canon, even if that site did have a rather fun game.) The comics, the books, the website, the movies, they would all have slightly different retellings of the story, but I was often annoyed when they'd be described as "oh, this part is canon, but the rest of it isn't." The MNOLG, the primary story telling device of 2001, was disregarded as mostly non canon years later. The set forms of all the characters in the movie years were non canon, because the movie versions were the "official" forms (ignoring that we hadn't grown to care about the characters based on their set form.) The Macku/Hewkii relationship from the Bohrok episodes "never happened" because somebody came up with the idea when it wasn't out of the official book, so it's non canon.

 

Granted, when you have so many different medias, there are bound to be discrepancies and one legit way to explain them is to pick and choose the canon. But sometimes I thought this process was done rather sloppily. So if you prefer your head canon, go ahead and pick and choose what YOU want from the story. If you don't like the way the characters were portrayed in a certain media *coughTakuainMoLcough* then you don't have to follow it. But on a site like this with so many fans religiously devoted to the canon, don't expect them to share your exact opinions. If you're cool with that but they aren't... well that's their problem. B-)

 

(Also yeah the Toa Nuva totally looked awful and I wish they had kept their original looks in following years.)

 

:music:

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Hooray, I'm encouraging discourse! ^_^

 

As for BIONICLE 2015, I'd be happiest if it just started up, say, one million years after Spherus Magna I reformed. Ignore all the problems and start 100% anew. I feel like, if new BIONICLE takes after Hero Factory, it will be a more open-ended story like you preferred.

 

I agree, on both scores. Although the more involved story was a hook, it made the entry barrier that much higher after each year, which I believe is why they abandoned that approach for HF.

 

I definitely agree with you, though my headcanon is probably vastly different. I was enamored by the mysticism in the early Bionicle Universe, and the blatant disregard for it that came later made BIONICLE feel like a completely unrelated story.

 

Actually, I felt the same way! Although Bones makes a valid argument in that mystery is meant to be revealed, it doesn't change the fact that the mystery was a greater draw then the answers.

 

 

I interpret canon as meaning "official", and the only stuff that's official is the content put out by LEGO and Greg's word, so that's what I consider canon. Anything else is fanfiction to me, which is fine, but I don't consider part of the actual story.

 

Same here. That is the textbook definition of canon, after all, and I certainly don't have any issue with it.

 

Why bother becoming invested in a story if you're just going to ignore virtually everything about it?

 

Because I was often enamored of the basic storylines, and then disappointed by where they went. The hero-or-animal theme of '05 was brilliant, right up until it was completely ignored in every way.

 

 

It matters because while you may not care about the story, others do. And there are differing opinions and differing headcanons.

 

Well, that goes without saying. What I'm trying to understand is why the community has put so much emphasis on canon...

 

 

I think the main reason people gave such value to the official BIONICLE canon was that, at 2003 the latest, fans realized something that set BIONICLE apart was the strong narrative.

 

... and I believe this to be one of the strongest answers, because- take it or leave it- the ongoing story was a defining element LEGO hadn't attempted before.

 

I guess you're just saying that's the first time you became conscious of disliking part of Bionicle, but such a thing is basically inevitable in any continuing story.

 

Indeed- it was the first time I said to myself, "you know, I don't like that. I'm going to ignore it."

 

 

The first three things you said didn't come from the story team, so how do they fit a "march of canon" argument?

 

They fit in that, the canon was, "This is what your protagonists look like now."

 

That was a marketing thing, at no point in the story were the Piraka ever actually depicted that way.

 

True, but it still set a drastically different tone from anything that came before.

 

 

If everybody, including LEGO, thought that way, you never would have been given that gift of the original spark that led to your version. And how could you know nobody will like it? Why must it be about trying to "prove" something? It's okay for some others not to like it. I think that seems to be the bottom line with you -- it seems like you have an almost need for things to be universally liked, or not shared at all. If you somehow fight that root idea, the rest can fall into place -- whether sharing your vision or enjoying somebody else's

 

I'm sure some would like my headcanon, and some wouldn't. What I'm getting at is, that doesn't matter, as it's written for my own enjoyment. I'm not saying it needs to be about proving something... if I was, then I would be attempting to prove something, which I'm not! :P In fact, I was attempting to say that I enjoy all visions- canon and fanon- equally...

 

My argument, in this instance, is that canon needs to be written with much more care and consideration for a broader appeal then headcanon, and even then, you can't make everyone happy all of the time, as you say here:

 

 

You have to keep in mind that there will always be hits and misses in any storytelling, on the taste front (things that will be disliked by some... and things disliked by most!). The producers of LOST said it well once...

 

The difference is, IMO, LOST had much better writers, and it was a different medium- with a TV show, either you follow the story or you don't. The interactive element of a toy line simply isn't present. When I watch Game of Thrones, I can't say, well, so-and-so didn't die! Because I have no say in the story. But, when you own all the toys, and you can build more toys, you can take it where you want it to go.

 

 

What you seem to be missing (and honestly, I'm surprised you still are after all this time), is that many people enjoyed that experience... and most who didn't, didn't get worked up about it -- just ignore what you don't like.

 

See, I started this thread to learn, and that, sir, is a touche. I can understand following the canon story as though it were a TV show, where you wait for the next installment to see where things go, and it's on the writer's shoulders to craft an enjoyable narrative.

 

 

as the adaptive armor made the need for these obscure, implausible transformations go poof.

 

Switching back to LOST for a moment, this is the type of shenanigans the writers of LOST didn't have to deal with. Adaptive Armor exists because the set designers and the story team weren't on the same page, forcing the story team to invent a bogus reason on the spot for why none of the characters looked anything like themselves. GregF explained this away as, they couldn't sell sets that looked like previous years' sets, but the fact that Furno, Stormer, etc are all still the same colors and wearing the same helmets as they did in 2010 shoots that argument right in its foot.

 

 

Bottom line is, the genius of Bionicle was it created food for kids to talk about the story, compare knowledge of the trivia, chatter excitedly about this detail and that detail -- take that out, and a lot of the fun that drove kids' lives for ten years is gone. :) And if it's not somebody's cup of tea, they can just ignore it.

 

See, I can get behind that. Regardless of how well the story was executed, it created discussion, which created community. So, in a way, even though I didn't like the direction of the story, because-

 

 

Meaning that before it all came to close you had already decide it wasn't worth your time.

 

-that's exactly what I did, the story is what created the common bonds that Hero Factory simply hasn't made for itself.

 

 

You mention batman as if there is one definitive batman universe. That's not really how it works. Their basically splinter timelines. Their all valid. The fans don't really get to decide whats canon. They can add to and change but it doesn't change the source material.

 

 

Sorry, I didn't express myself very well. I'm aware of that, and that's the point I was attempting to make- why do we, as a creative community, choose to hold canon higher than fanon, when all interpretations could be considered equal? Now, this thread has already gone far to answer that question for me, as canon does provide a common denominator for the whole community...

 

1) Atmosphere was still important -- this was often neglected in later years. It's the kind of thing I spend a lot of time trying to bring to those stories in my fanfic versions, because I can see that many of the things people assume they don't like about later years had more to do with a loss of the feel that was in 2001 rather than being bad ideas by themselves. 2001 wasn't wrong at all to revel in the atmosphere. It's just that that was never supposed to be all it had; that was never the core of the story. Later years continued the core, but missed that many fans wanted the atmosphere to always surround it, even as mysteries were solved. Although there was a lot of great atmosphere sprinkled throughout later years too. Just not enough, IMO.

 

I'll get behind this all the way. That's why I mentioned Yo Yo Piraka... although not canon, it established atmosphere, and that atmosphere was poorly rhymed.

 

Alright, so, I suppose I should make some sort of a point before I sign off. Basically, where I'm coming from is, I better understand why we, as a community, care about following the canon, but considering it's interactive, open-ended nature, I still don't understand why there was such a fervor for GregF to fill in every last detail- especially when he was often making it up as he went along, same as us.

 

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Canon is important because it gives everyone a common ground, a shared experience. Headcanons are all well and good, but they're only in your head. You can't talk about them with other people without first explaining your own interpretation of things, and at that point you're no longer talking about the same Bionicle story. Of course everyone headcanons things they'd like to be different-- but canon is what other people are getting, and your imagination isn't actually fixing it. If you think they should've stayed Olda, wouldn't you want that change to actually happen in story so that other people wouldn't have to suffer the Nuva? If you think it isn't that big a deal and it's just your preference, well, that's that. But what if, say, you REALLY thought the Nuva transformation was SUPER TERRIBLE and like, I don't know, taught little kids that you need to change yourself to be more liked my others, or something, and thought it was a really dumb, horrible plot device that was harmful to others? You'd care bout the fact that it was canon because it means everyone else, for all intents and purposes, must accept it whether they like it or not. Suddenly your headcanon isn't very comfortable because not only are you concerned for everyone else, you basically have to acknowledge it every time you want to talk to others about Bionicle. It becomes suffocating, and annoying. Suddenly, the Toa Nuva are what define Bionicle, and "you must change who you are to be well liked" becomes the perceived message that either nobody notices, or just ignores, or is fighting against but can't change it. It's status quo. It's important. Truth. It's in the past, but then new kids will want to read up on the past and suddenly there's that harmful message again, or the thing you didn't like, or the bad plot device. And you can't possibly explain your headcanon to everyone the way Santa Clause supposedly visits every single child, 'cause that's what you'd have to do to ensure 100% headcanon acceptance.

Or, you know, you can speak up about it and see how many others agree with you, and maybe the canon does get changed by the writers, and suddenly-- the problem is solved. Bionicle itself becomes better for it. Future generations can no longer be harmed, maybe they won't even know about the original bad thing.

Canon is very important, because it's basically what's "real". If nobody cared too much about poor writing in stories 'cause we were comfortable just pretending things happened differently and living in our own little headcanon world, then nothing would get better, future stories would make the same mistakes, and everyone else around you would still have to put up with "reality". 

Headcanons are great, and with minor things they can be excellent when spread around 'cause then it becomes like a little fan following, an inside joke or something that everyone just is aware of and pretends is real. With major things, however, the story itself is gonna keep bringing it up, and it's gonna matter that it's different from what everyone prefers. For example: Trans gal Tamaru is a recent popular headcanon that folks enjoy and doesn't need to be canonized that desperately 'cause odds are, Tamaru will never even be mentioned in the story, ever, and never had thaaat big an impact anyways, in terms of something else relying on Tamaru having been a male matoran. Headcanon works perfectly for it. If everyone just tried to headcanon something like, I dunno, that the MU was never a giant robot and things actually were just the way they seemed? It's a big thing that the story hinges on, even if somehow everyone hated it and everything after 2008, a shared headcanon would not really help the situation, the story would still have that major flaw and focus on it and that canon would continue into the future 'cause it's so important and everyone would keep complaining... which is why people argue about canon so much. At that point, when the hypothetical situation is that dire, just saying your headcanon is that it never happened is more like running away from your problem (and failing, 'cause you still have to talk about it and work hard to constantly rewrite other things that happened cause of it thus coming back to facing the original canon) and nobody benefits. 

Canon is the only thing that actually matters (OBVIOUSLY with the exception of stuff people can easily ignore and pretend happened differently, like someone's gender or a war that is only mentioned briefly and vaguely as part of some backstory filler, or even entire characters if they're not important to either the story or via their affect on the fanbase), is what I'm trying to hammer in here :P

People care about the story, sometimes people just don't really have an imagination where they can just pretend things happened differently. I enjoy headcanons, but to me canon supersedes everything (except minor stuff as I wanna make clear 'cause honestly who even cares). And, as for loose ends that need to be canonized/tied up, people want to have closure on things. It's not the same when you have to make up your own ending 'cause the author just fails to tell you what "really" happens, unless it's supposed to be intentionally open ended 'cause those scenarios are usually written with that in mind so filling it in yourself is satisfying. "canon" is "the official story", and people want to know what happens. And then be able to talk about it with anyone and all be on the same page. When that story has serious flaws, people are gonna want to talk about them and call for them to get fixed.

And, I don't know if I emphasized it, but it's 100% okay to headcanon whatever you want and ignore like 90% of everything if you want. Only thing I ever criticize about that is when people insist that their headcanon is better and share it with everyone every chance they get, 'cause then you're just being a party pooper and self centered and nobody even knows what you're talking about so it's mostly just really confusing. I rarely encounter this, but somehow there are people like that in some fandoms I've peeked into, and it's like... headcanon is for your head. Keep it there sometimes :P

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The pool of EP was supposed to kill them should the Bahrag fail, I believe ? Of course, however, the bahrag never counted that the Toa Mata were destined to transform.

Bahrag didn't know about it. It would kill anybody (like invading aliens -- assuming they were six or less in number and made the same mistake to stand on the six obvious circles in the room :P) who would try to attack the Bahrag, presumably. Or transform them into something harmless or whatever.

 

The MNOLG, the primary story telling device of 2001, was disregarded as mostly non canon years later.

Actually it's mostly canon. It's just little things here and there (for the most part) that were non-canon.

 

Edit: Wow posts are coming fast in here. Of course, doesn't help that I have a lousy internet connection lol...

 

 

 

 

They fit in that, the canon was, "This is what your protagonists look like now."

 

Okay... but in 2001, the 'Olda' were "what your protagonists looked like".

 

The alternative was leave those protagonists behind for different characters. Mistakes and all, I was happy they kept the same characters and wished they would have done that more often later. For all its flaws, HF does that part right IMO.

 

 

with a TV show, either you follow the story or you don't. The interactive element of a toy line simply isn't present.

The interactive toy isn't, sure, but the point is that audience participation with the mystery and exploration IS present in both. :)

 

 

But, when you own all the toys, and you can build more toys, you can take it where you want it to go.

Right, but my point is, having an objective canon actually helps inspire changing things in fan roleplaying. It seems counterintuitive but that was the key lesson LEGO figured out for Bionicle -- presenting a coherent, single story the fans have (virtually) no control over can be something both to rally around and to take only as seeds for entirely different versions.

 

Whereas, something that only gives you a little and asks the fans to come up with the rest seems like it would inspire more, but in practice it was often the opposite. That's why I call it food or fuel. To a degree, it seems that amount of fuel LEGO gives out ends up being proportional to the fire of enthusiasm and imagination in the fans.

 

Compare it to where HF has apparently largely failed in this end -- while it solves a lot of problems Bionicle had, it also doesn't inspire much theorizing or fanfics or all that. (Although I'm sure there's some of that.)

 

 

 

See, I started this thread to learn, and that, sir, is a touche. I can understand following the canon story as though it were a TV show, where you wait for the next installment to see where things go, and it's on the writer's shoulders to craft an enjoyable narrative.

=)

 

 

Switching back to LOST for a moment, this is the type of shenanigans the writers of LOST didn't have to deal with. Adaptive Armor exists because the set designers and the story team weren't on the same page, forcing the story team to invent a bogus reason on the spot for why none of the characters looked anything like themselves. GregF explained this away as, they couldn't sell sets that looked like previous years' sets

 

Now hang on a sec -- this seems backwards. Maybe I'm reading too much into your word choice, but not selling sets that looked just like previous years sets isn't an explaining away -- that IS the real reason why sets change. You're probably somewhat right about the not same page thing, but several of the masks do bear obvious similarities to the originals, just taken in a much more radical altered direction than 03. There was always going to be a different appearance and a story explanation as to why, the question was how different and in what way.

 

And the adaptive armor came out of the story people making the foolish decision earlier to promise the Nuva wouldn't be transformed again. At first that seemed like good news, but then we realized that meant they had to get pushed out of story central. That was a reaction to the dislike of the "convenience" (or "bogus-ness", if you like :P) of the original transformation. That reaction made sense, but the solution was awful, as we DID want them to remain more central.

 

Adaptive armor, like HF upgrading, solved all those problems and was a very good decision.

 

But whatever labels you wanna put on it, you're (mostly) right that LOST didn't have to deal with that sort of thing.

 

Except with Walt. ;)

 

 

but the fact that Furno, Stormer, etc are all still the same colors and wearing the same helmets as they did in 2010 shoots that argument right in its foot.

I guess you're talking about the degree of change. Some of the HF changes were more extreme than others. I felt some of the Newva went too far (Tahu lacking any discernable mouth section for example), but not sure HF all wearing the same helmets is a valid evidence for an argument about that, since those have changed.

 

I'm not saying the set design of the adaptive armor was brilliant, my point was that the idea of it is, because it enabled the Nuva to go back to story central, yet also fulfill the promise of never (technically) transforming them again. :)

 

 

 

 

Alright, so, I suppose I should make some sort of a point before I sign off. Basically, where I'm coming from is, I better understand why we, as a community, care about following the canon, but considering it's interactive, open-ended nature, I still don't understand why there was such a fervor for GregF to fill in every last detail- especially when he was often making it up as he went along, same as us.

 

Curiosity. :P

 

Call it curiosity killed the cat if you like. :lol: There are definite downsides to it (like "forgetcons"), but on the whole I think it's been positive.

 

But my point at the very start of my replies is -- even though consciously Greg makes a lot up as he goes along, it isn't the same as us, because he knows things we don't know (less now than before though :P) and that factors into what choices he makes, even if sometimes only subconsciously.

 

I do disagree with the cavalier way Greg will sometimes describe his (conscious) storytelling process though -- giving some the impression it's just "arbitrary" or "random." Greg often brings up that the story team made a choice not to laugh at the story, as the people will laugh at it, but sometimes he seems to miss that the same principle should apply to being flippant (for lack of a better word off the top of my head) about how he comes up with things; if he doesn't take his process seriously, some fans won't either. And that may be behind the "feel" stuff I was talking about.

 

That doesn't mean he has to outline -- I don't outline either usually (although I have outlined some things I just had to get notes down for just because I don't trust my memory, but I never treat such things as "what you have to do"). I think Greg has made a mistake of a false dichotomy between outlining and having nothing tentative in mind for things he throws in (like Krakua's message from the future), and that hurts the quality sometimes. :shrugs:

 

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The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive)Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants

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Also, as mentioned, a lot of people loved the direction the story went in after 2003 (like me). I've met some people on BZP who actually dislike or don't think too highly of 2001-2003 and have some valid criticisms of it, and think BIONICLE improved after it left the island of Mata Nui behind. If you didn't enjoy the direction the story took and came up with your own headcanon as to how things played out, that's fine, but there are many others who love the canon as it is. If I was given the opportunity to change things in the canon, there isn't much I'd change- maybe have some more females, less alt. dimensions, keep a few characters dead, etc., but nothing major. 

 

Besides, if we were to regard fanon on the same level of canon, then canon loses its meaning, as any random thing any fan comes up with would be equal to official content released by LEGO. Canon by its nature is meant to be of a higher level and authority than headcanons and the like. There's a reason headcanon is referred to as headcanon. 

 

 

 

 I still don't understand why there was such a fervor for GregF to fill in every last detail- especially when he was often making it up as he went along, same as us.

To be fair, that was only a small portion of the fans, who enjoyed knowing every little thing about the world, and with a world as fascinating as BIONICLE's, you can't really blame them. By having Greg confirm a piece of information, it becomes canon, it becomes "real." It stops being fanon or headcanon and is elevated to official status. That's why people were always so eager to win contests and have their short stories canonized- their stories became official material part of the official storyline, and not just fanfiction restricted to them (not that there's anything wrong with that.) And remember, Greg may have made up some details as he went along, but the major parts of the story were planned out long in advance, and Greg was privy to that info. He knew stuff and had context that we didn't for a long time.

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I do disagree with the cavalier way Greg will sometimes describe his (conscious) storytelling process though -- giving some the impression it's just "arbitrary" or "random." Greg often brings up that the story team made a choice not to laugh at the story, as the people will laugh at it, but sometimes he seems to miss that the same principle should apply to being flippant (for lack of a better word off the top of my head) about how he comes up with things; if he doesn't take his process seriously, some fans won't either. And that may be behind the "feel" stuff I was talking about.

 

That doesn't mean he has to outline -- I don't outline either usually (although I have outlined some things I just had to get notes down for just because I don't trust my memory, but I never treat such things as "what you have to do"). I think Greg has made a mistake of a false dichotomy between outlining and having nothing tentative in mind for things he throws in (like Krakua's message from the future), and that hurts the quality sometimes.  :shrugs:

Yeah, don't take Greg's claimed way of writing too seriously. Sometimes he does throw some random stuff in without being sure how it'll be used down the line, but generally speaking his stories are usually tightly written, coherent, consistent, and follow a clear direction with plenty of foreshadowing. I reread Maze of Shadows and Time Trap recently and was struck by how much foreshadowing Greg inserted in the early stages of the books that ended up pointing to what would happen later. For example, in the beginning of Maze of Shadows the Toa by chance stumble across a small pool of energized protodermis, and watch a rahi not destined to be transformed die in it. Later on in the story, towards the end, Karzahni requests that the Toa get him a vial of energized protodermis, and dies in the end just like the Rahi earlier. Greg may not outline specifically, but he does have in mind where he's going and the major points of what he's doing. It's too bad people interpret his comments literally, assuming he goes in literally throwing anything together because its fun and hoping it turns out well. If that were how he wrote, we would not have great work like Time Trap or Raid on Vulcanus IMO.

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My Memoirs of the Dead entry, Reflectons:

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Just realized something I should have said before, to this, but missed as I was in a hurry still:

 

but the fact that Furno, Stormer, etc are all still the same colors and wearing the same helmets as they did in 2010 shoots that argument right in its foot.

This forgets that all of HF happened after 2008 and sticking to closer similarities could be part of the lesson they learned from the Newva. So, this may be what's called "anachronistic fallacy"; applying the standards of one time to another.

 

Also, the Newva design may have in turn been an over-reaction to the lesson of the Bohrok Kal which seemed to be "avoid close similarities in new waves." HF seems to have proven later that a balance between the two can work. You have to keep in mind that LEGO experiments, and adapts according to the results.

The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive)Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants

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All of this comes back to taste, of course, but it kind of sounds like you missed that it was intentionally a mystery story -- that means the mysteries were meant to be solved (in general), and things would continue to be introduced that fans didn't understand at first.

 

My mysticism I am referring to the mythos of the universe. Mata Nui was a spirit, Makuta a spirit, Akamai, Wairuha, etc. There were temples in each koro, and a great temple at the island's center. Point being, a lot of these were non-issues. Nobody asked who Mata Nui or Makuta was, because knew. Of course, we didn't know what they looked like, but it wasn't exactly a pressing issue. Just a "that'd be nice to know." And we got that with Makuta during the Mask of Light saga, so, neat. 

 

However, the "big reveals" that came later were unintriguing and really just upset the revelations that came beforehand. Not in a "guess what, you thought Makuta was dead, surprise!" sort of way, but in a "Guess what, you thought we the established universe was the real one, but it's not!" sort of way. It could be that they just failed to present it well, but that sort of presentation leaves a bad taste in my mouth. The biggest example I can think of was that Makuta wasn't a name, but a species, his real name is Teridax, and he's only special because he has the Kraahkan on his face. Oh, and he's not Mata Nui's brother. So basically we took a villain, the main villain of the the universe, and made him into a nobody. It'd be kind of be the equivalent of the Master in Doctor Who turning out to be a human-affecting parasite with a vendetta against Time Lords (not the best argument, perhaps, but my original one was a religious one and I figured it best not to use that). 

 

There was, of course, real mystery. And I agree that it was to be solved (though for the fans, as it really wasn't something that was pursued in-universe). Like the "ancient civilization" on mata nui (which was changed to be metru-nui, which is fine IMO though I think the original idea had more promise). Who placed the masks on the island? The rooms beneath Kina Nui? Why did the Bohrok exist in the first place? These were the big questions, and they were answered with a big fat "because the order of Mata Nui put them there, because it was a part of the big plan." Oh, how revealing.

 

So I get what you're saying, but it would seem that the story team did a very poor job at following up on their own foreshadowing. 

 

 

 

That's exactly the point.  :) We don't know that (or we didn't at the time), so it was an adventure to discover the details over time and see how it all fit together (or most of it  :P)! It wasn't something in our heads where nothing would really surprise us. It was exploring somebody else's vision.  :)

 

What I mean by "we don't have the story bible" is that we don't have it now. The reason why I said above "it would seem that..." was for that reason. I don't actually know how closely they followed the bible's original plan, or how much ended up being "hey guys, let's do this instead!" None of us do. If we think of the story bible as the canon, and what the story team created as an interpretation of it, then we can't really say we know the most correct version. We can have faith that the story team kept to it closely, but we really can't judge that accurately for ourselves. And so we start with the assumption that the earliest stuff was definitely more true, as it was created around the same time, and diverge from there. What I reject in my head-canon is mostly a consequence of later things contradicting earlier things (or at least my interpretation of them; doubtlessly we each had our own). What I create is largely a consequences of rebuilding bridges that were originally destroyed by contradictions so as to tie together otherwise non-contradicting things.

 

But this is my head-canon, and I will present it as such, rather than "the real truth," which I will contend doesn't really exist, anyway.

 

 

 

Well, that goes without saying. What I'm trying to understand is why the community has put so much emphasis on canon...

 

This is the real issue. There is an "official" canon, yes. And I love that people follow it, and their own head-canons, and then I have my head-canon so we can all discuss how things fit together and why we think the way we do. These differing ideas don't split the community, as some here would suggest, but hold it together. If we all agreed what was "correct" we wouldn't be having this thought-provoking discussion, would we? Instead we'd just be sharing the occasional moc or fanfiction, which really don't matter because they're not canon anyway. That doesn't breed discourse or facilitate discussion: disagreement does.

 

And yet, there is a significant portion of the community does not only adhere to the main canon (again, not a huge issue in my eyes), but are downright hostile to other interpretations or head-canons. On more than one occasion I've experienced this hostility directly for saying a statement as simple as "I felt the later years were particularly lackluster and inconsistent with the early ones, so I've kind of created on own head-canon diverging from the official." (example - I don't have the post in front of me and it wasn't made on bzpower.) It's fine that someone challenge me on that, and even try to convince me that the later years actually make the first years more relevant and exciting. But instead I get a "You're wrong, because LEGO controls what's real. There's nothing else worth discussing, and you're just humiliating yourself by thinking otherwise." 

 

So back to OP's question - Why is there such an emphasis on the official canon among the BIONICLE community? What's so important about it that it's wrong to imagine anything else? I don't know, because I don't think any fiction is that important. But this line of thinking is present and quite common.

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Why bother becoming invested in a story if you're just going to ignore virtually everything about it?

 

This. So much, this.

 

Don't get me wrong, I have my own headcanons -- but I developed them to supplement and enhance the story, not all-out replace it.

 

Or, in other words: if you like your headcanon so much more than 9/10 years of BIONICLE, why would you ever go on this particular subforum? :P

 

 

However, the "big reveals" that came later were unintriguing and really just upset the revelations that came beforehand. Not in a "guess what, you thought Makuta was dead, surprise!" sort of way, but in a "Guess what, you thought we the established universe was the real one, but it's not!" sort of way. It could be that they just failed to present it well, but that sort of presentation leaves a bad taste in my mouth. The biggest example I can think of was that Makuta wasn't a name, but a species, his real name is Teridax, and he's only special because he has the Kraahkan on his face. Oh, and he's not Mata Nui's brother. So basically we took a ###### villain, the main villain of the the universe, and made him into a nobody. It'd be kind of be the equivalent of the Master in Doctor Who turning out to be a human-affecting parasite with a vendetta against Time Lords (not the best argument, perhaps, but my original one was a religious one and I figured it best not to use that).

 

 

You are absolutely incorrect. Makuta Teridax was special not because of his mask, not even because of his sheer power level, but because he was ambitious, envious, and power-hungry enough to develop a plan to take command of the entire known universe -- and succeeded.

 

If you really think that the Makuta of 2001-2003, whose main skillset was hiding beneath the island and sending waves after waves of minions at the Toa and then being surprised when they failed, was better than Makuta Teridax simply because he was more mysterious... then I do not and will never understand your taste.

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If we think of the story bible as the canon, and what the story team created as an interpretation of it, then we can't really say we know the most correct version.

It's not that simple -- the story bible was plans, and in some cases the story team would defer to it, but ultimately what was canon was what they said was. That is what in general is the most reasonable version of events and details because it's more engaged with why things actually happened. Planning ahead is more like an estimation of where things will go, something like a weather forecast a week (or two) ahead of time.

 

The ideal goal is that the canon is "what would actually happen", although of course as it's fiction there's always a level of arbitrariness in that (but that goes for ALL fiction :)). 

 

That's the "most correct" version if the question being asked is simply "what is canon?" :)

 

But the kinds of things you mentioned have nothing to do with being "correct", so people telling you you're incorrect to imagine your own versions -- those people are simply wrong about that. :) It's an understandable mistake they make, but still a mistake.

 

Nobody asked who Mata Nui or Makuta was

Au contraire, I remember those being two of the biggest questions people asked. Like I said, the clues that this was a mystery were perhaps too subtle -- but the key here is, they were there. "Robots" (as we thought of them at the time) on a tropical island isn't just something people naturally see like wizard magic -- just to be accepted without thought. It was a mystery people wondered about. Mask powers was another huge topic, which eventually led to one of the coolest, and still fairly mysterious, science-fiction ideas I've ever heard of; protodermis, the molecule that does virtually anything yet has definite limits. Makuta got solved a bit more consistently, bit by bit, than others, but Mata Nui remained a huge mystery until that awesome reveal at 2008 end.

 

Basically, remember not to confuse "I" (you) with "everybody". That's actually, if you think about it, the same mistake people were making when they said your headcanon was "wrong." In both cases, people naturally assume (understandably, but as it happens, inaccurately, and that's a good thing!) that how they feel is a good guide for how others feel; that their tastes are good predictors of others' tastes, when it isn't always so.

 

However, the "big reveals" that came later were unintriguing

See, depending on which ones you mean, that doesn't at all describe what I saw people saying. Definitely not for the giant robot -- that was almost universally liked, and the Makuta takeover. Mata Nui dying too. And Turaga were Toa, Takua becomes a Toa, etc. And this was coming from a site where the rule, not the exception, was complaints about anything new, so those strong positive reactions were pretty good indicators.

 

Now there were misses too, and you list some of them (multiple Makuta for example, though it was never really shown that that represented the entire fanbase well, but Teridax's name seemed to have... somewhat). But misses are inevitable, you know? Unless a storyteller is perfect, and none of us are. :) (Even if they did guess the majority right every time, there would almost always be tastes that differ and dislike things.)

 

Oh, and he's not Mata Nui's brother.

Now see here's a case where many fans made a mistake that IMO should have been easily avoided -- they trusted the word of a villain. When Makuta claimed to literally be Mata Nui's brother, that wasn't technically true, but "brother" in Bionicle was always a poetic term, and it ended up being much more true than Teridax even understood; his destiny to help heal Spherus Magna alongside Mata Nui. Plus, he was the Makuta of Metru Nui (which he did know, of course :P), which was Mata Nui's brain, basically, as Greg has said. But in the sense of an equal, it was always clearly not literally true if you realized he was a liar and he used those lies and half-truths to manipulate people who heard him speak.

 

So, in the sense of "what you thought was the established universe -- wasn't!", the problem in that case is that fans were never supposed to take the word of a villain as established canon. This applies to much else of his speeches in MNOG and MoL (and various others later too). And yet, the essential meanings of most of them contained some truth. Basically, when you read any character-based fiction, or watch/etc. you have to keep in mind that characters can be wrong, and especially that villains (and sometimes good guys) lie.

 

Of course, the Turaga kind of fed into that one with their own lie, but there too the same principle applies. :) And their symbolic legend did still have a lot of truth, including the MoMN part, which they would have known. It just wasn't literal, and not entirely an honest match, since they wanted to hide Metru Nui for the safety of the Matoran.

 

It'd be kind of be the equivalent of the Master in Doctor Who turning out to be a human-affecting parasite

Okay? See, this is the kind of thing where taste will be a poor guide for you. To you, it appears to feel obvious that this would be bad, because you look inside, and your tastes tell you that. To me, it sounds like a twist I could have liked had it been done, and I know I can't judge that fairly because it isn't what was done and I'm already accustomed to what was done. But it sounds like the Goa'uld, and they worked great as major villains over a long time on Stargate. If that had been done instead, people with different tastes would like it too. Who knows? It's just never that simple, you know?

 

There was, of course, real mystery. And I agree that it was to be solved (though for the fans, as it really wasn't something that was pursued in-universe). Like the "ancient civilization" on mata nui (which was changed to be metru-nui, which is fine IMO though I think the original idea had more promise). Who placed the masks on the island? The rooms beneath Kina Nui? Why did the Bohrok exist in the first place? These were the big questions, and they were answered with a big fat "because the order of Mata Nui put them there, because it was a part of the big plan." Oh, how revealing.

 

So I get what you're saying, but it would seem that the story team did a very poor job at following up on their own foreshadowing.

Again, you're wording this like it was an objective judgement, but apparently just looking to your own personal tastes as the guide for that. Incidentally, the only one of those questions that was answered as "Order" was hidden masks, and only the Kanohi Nuva (and only indirectly, really it was Artakha teleporting them, but it's theorized the Order was involved). But I like the idea of the secretive organization working behind the scenes. And the original hidden masks being hidden by the Turaga (actually Toa Metru), I personally LOVED, precisely because I DID guess it right (in a posted S&T theory). That was a huge part of the fun -- and even when we guess wrongly (like I had noooo idea about the giant; I thought Mata Nui was just some titan asleep somewhere, like Axonn-sized or something), that was fun too, perhaps even cooler. Kinda like how on Mythbusters they talk about how they love it when they're wrong.

 

And the Bohrok was one of the best of the mysteries and its solutions. But yes, this is rooted in my taste (well also what I primarily saw others saying :P) -- but not yours. That's just how taste works. :)

 

(And that's good because of society variety theory as I call it; different tastes are caused by different talent/weakness allocations in individuals, and the more varied talents are in a society, the more challenges it can meet. :))

 

And so we start with the assumption that the earliest stuff was definitely more true, as it was created around the same time, and diverge from there.

If you think about it, the opposite actually makes more sense, and can even be way more enjoyable (though again it probably all comes down to preferences) -- the later stuff will be more likely to be thought through over time, and mistakes made early on corrected. :) The complete picture after we finish the exploration together becomes thrilling in its coherency -- that is the adventure of a canon. ^_^ And even the infinite room for further exercising of the mind and imagination in solving bonus puzzles that arise along the way.

 

Also, many of the earliest plans only get revealed later, like the giant robot, so in that sense the early was definitely less true; the appearance of the island for example as just another random island was not true; there really was something special about it, and it had a purpose that had meaning -- ultimately, it was part of saving lives, as it was part of the systems of the giant Tool the Great Beings built to heal their world.

 

But this is my head-canon, and I will present it as such, rather than "the real truth," which I will contend doesn't really exist, anyway

See here's the thing -- the canon does exist -- as a fiction canon. It's the consistent (generally), thought-through (usually) product of the inventive minds who seeded and built what inspired all the head-canons, as I mentioned earlier.

 

Also, to me personally, I don't understand a mindset that has to look at canon and headcanon as contrary things. I enjoy the official story and enjoy taking fanfics in different directions to try new things, you know? It doesn't have to be one or the other.

 

So back to OP's question - Why is there such an emphasis on the official canon among the BIONICLE community? What's so important about it that it's wrong to imagine anything else? I don't know, because I don't think any fiction is that important.

Actually, I think you answered your own question right there. :) (Though again, the "wrong" part is wrong, as said above, but that's not the question; the question is why there is emphasis on it and why it's important.)

 

The reason you don't know the answer to that question is your decision to think that no fiction is very important. Obviously, some take it to an unhealthy level, but fiction is important for its teaching value, its inspiring imagination (and just being inspiring in general), its challenge to think and try to solve mysteries, its emotional meanings to people as it touches on themes that real people do deal with. To just take all that as not important just because it's fiction, to me ignores that all of that can be a factor in real life.

 

Now, here's the key -- you and I can't control (much) of real life. I can't control the globe -- that happens based on causality, psychology, etc..

 

And there's the brilliance of a canon. Unlike headcanon, we can't control the canon (much :P), and that actually makes the events and the characterization have almost a sort of real meaning for us, as we understand it is real people telling symbolic stories about real life, about things we can relate to, or want to sympathize with as we know others have to go through things like that (or in some cases get to -- the good side of it, the thrill of the adventure, etc. can help a lot too!).

 

If you just arbitrarily decide "none of it matters because it's fiction so not real", you close your mind and your psyche off to all of that. Well, if you do that, it makes sense you might not relate to why it matters to others. :) And that's okay -- but it's probably the reason it doesn't click with you. Make any sense?

 

Saying it doesn't matter because it's fiction is a reasonable guess -- on the surface, it's an easy mistake to make. Especially in "pendulum reaction" against people who clearly do take it way too seriously. But as it happens, the guess is inaccurate. =)

 

 

Another part of it is simply -- it's entertainment, and it's meant to be fun. What always puzzles me about the people who seem to want to convince us not to take the canon seriously is, that mindset appears to be unappealing. The people talking that way through the years seem annoyed, displeased, irked, what have you. Maybe that alone is why it doesn't convince a lot of people? Because evidently, allowing yourself to be open to somebody else's vision is much more enjoyable, whereas choosing to mostly ignore canon seems to be counterproductive.

 

Doesn't mean you can't constructively criticize and see missed potential -- ways to make it even more enjoyable -- but it does seem to mean you'll be more likely to catch intended meanings, get more out of the mysteries, and just have fun more too, so the experience will be more pleasurable. And some things will still displease you and even serious problems can be spotted, but overall it seems like a much more attractive way to approach a story. Maybe that's what some of you have missed, to some extent? :shrugs:

Edited by bonesiii

The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive)Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants

My Bionicle Fanfiction  (Google Drive folder, eventually planned to have PDFs of all of it)

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The main reason canon matters in ANY story is that it is a shared experience. You can create your own headcanons about ANY series, but they won't necessarily be agreed upon by other fans, who might have their own headcanons. The actual canon, on the other hand, is the same for everyone. It makes up the core upon which all headcanons are based. All the media in a series (books, movies, etc.) will be based on that canon, and the actual canon is more often than not what will draw in fans.

Hero Factory was basically designed to be open to all manner of headcanon, establishing a boundless universe with room for any number of original characters from the get-go. But its story never really became as popular as Bionicle's, because the actual, core canon (especially as represented by the TV episodes) was weaker. Plenty of fans created their own headcanons to try to make up for that, but that resulted in a story that fans couldn't agree on or relate to on the same level as Bionicle.

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allowing yourself to be open to somebody else's vision is much more enjoyable, whereas choosing to mostly ignore canon seems to be counterproductive.

 

Totally agree.

 

I see the canon as a basic skeleton which connects all the fans; the 'flesh' of the BIONICLE 'body' is fan interpretation and fan fiction. You can write a fanfic as outlandish as you want, with Toa travelling lightyears across space, or eldritch abominations rising from the depths of Aqua Magna, but it's all still tethered to the official canon. You're not bound to the canon, but it's our love of Toa, Matoran, Agori, Kanohi masks, and whatever else that connects us as a fan community, and connects us to the sets and stories.

 

Personally, there's a lot within the official canon that annoys me. The repeated denial of any kind of omniverse where Spherus Magna and Earth co-exist is a tad frustrating, as is the rule that says only Ga (and now Vo, Ce and Av) Matoran can be female; when I was little, I always wanted to be the Toa of Water, but the canon told me I couldn't because I'm a dude. The loose ends from the stories set after the Battle of Bara Magna are also frustrating; I'd rather that they had never been started, as now all these new villains have been set up that potentially interfere with how someone might want to write a fanfic. It would have been great if Bota Magna had been a complete mystery at the end, rather than hearing about these talking Vorox and so on.

 

But just because all that's there doesn't, to my mind, mean it's 100% set in stone. If someone criticises you for adding a male Vo-Matoran, they're kind of wrong; this may be a BIONICLE fanfic, but it's still your story, and you can write what you like. Matoran in both genders? No problem. The Great Beings are humans? Got no problem with that. Ahkmou was good all along and working for Dumbledore Dume? Still not a problem.

 

If I'm honest, as much as I enjoyed Greg's work, it wasn't amazing. Nova Orbis is more fun than most of the online serials, like Dwellers in Darkness. I'm sure that people who spend more time on these forums than I do will find other examples of fan works that they think are just as much or more fun than the 'actual' books or comics or serials.

 

So as far as I'm concerned, the main universe is more of a suggestion. One of the great things about BIONICLE is its versatility. It's in the saga's DNA - just look at the sets! While I wouldn't replace the canon in my head, or ignore its existence - for me, it remains the prime timeline - I'd rather not glue myself to it entirely. It's just as much fun trying to take the story in a different direction, and putting your own personal stamp on it.

 

Hope that didn't end up being too roundabout.

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The ideal goal is that the canon is "what would actually happen", although of course as it's fiction there's always a level of arbitrariness in that (but that goes for ALL fiction  :)). 

 

I suppose that could have been how they did it, but we can't know that. As a writer myself I find that the story as originally developed tends to feel far more real; it doesn't feel like you're developing it but actually discovering it. Once something is discovered it can't just be arbitrarily changed. Of course just because I and the other writers I know do it this way doesn't mean Greg and the team did, so it's a fair argument to make. In my opinion, however, I have found that stories that stick to the original bible tend to be far more coherent. Take Myst: despite changing hands several times, the original story bible was always followed as canon, despite only the devs having access. Now look at Assassin's Creed: the original bible was pretty much replaced after ACII/Brotherhood, which ended up causing a lot of problems.

 

Now for me, when I get lost in a fantastic universe (be it from a book, tv show, or toy line like Bionicle), I think of it as real. I know it isn't, of course, but that's what suspension of disbelief is all about: getting lost (more about suspension of disbelief later). And if this universe is real, then it exists independently of LEGO; they're just telling the story of this universe. Now, they have direct access to it - meaning we who seek to understand this universe must get all of our information from them - but that doesn't mean they have control. So that's why I tend to think of the story bible as canon, even if I can't put my hands on it. I can't get lost in a fictional universe if it refuses to act like a universe.

Basically, remember not to confuse "I" (you) with "everybody". That's actually, if you think about it, the same mistake people were making when they said your headcanon was "wrong." In both cases, people naturally assume (understandably, but as it happens, inaccurately, and that's a good thing!) that how they feel is a good guide for how others feel; that their tastes are good predictors of others' tastes, when it isn't always so.

 

 

 

Basically, remember not to confuse "I" (you) with "everybody". That's actually, if you think about it, the same mistake people were making when they said your headcanon was "wrong." In both cases, people naturally assume (understandably, but as it happens, inaccurately, and that's a good thing!) that how they feel is a good guide for how others feel; that their tastes are good predictors of others' tastes, when it isn't always so.

 

This is a very valid point. I can only speak to myself, and those who I spoke with. But I can say that I, my friends, and those I was chatting with online back then certainly weren't asking much about the mechanical nature of the beings on Mata Nui. Since it was never addressed as a mystery, but merely accepted in-universe, it became accepted by us (again "us" being limited to those I had contact with). And in my mind, that's completely logical - sure that doesn't happen in the real world, but neither does Hogwarts (and I don't remember "why is there magic" being addressed in Harry Potter). Crowds burst out into song in musicals, but nobody thinks that's strange. And that's what suspension of disbelief is. Not everything needs an explanation. And in my mind, the existence of mata nui, makuta et al certainly didn't either. 

 

 

 

 Definitely not for the giant robot -- that was almost universally liked, and the Makuta takeover. Mata Nui dying too. And Turaga were Toa, Takua becomes a Toa, etc.

 

Certainly not for the giant robot. But then that was kind of the big reveal from the beginning, wasn't it? That was completely consistent with the story bible, we know that much. Makuta taking over and Mata Nui dying weren't so much revelations of mysteries as plot points. Turaga being from Toa, and Takua becoming a Toa also came much earlier, when we can assume the bible was followed much more closely.

 

 

 

Okay? See, this is the kind of thing where taste will be a poor guide for you. To you, it appears to feel obvious that this would be bad, because you look inside, and your tastes tell you that. To me, it sounds like a twist I could have liked had it been done, and I know I can't judge that fairly because it isn't what was done and I'm already accustomed to what was done. But it sounds like the Goa'uld, and they worked great as major villains over a long time on Stargate. If that had been done instead, people with different tastes would like it too. Who knows? It's just never that simple, you know?

 

The Goa'uld were cool. But such a change would complete delegitimize the evil that came before.

 

 

 

Again, you're wording this like it was an objective judgement, but apparently just looking to your own personal tastes as the guide for that.

 

I'm trying not to, but I'm doing a poor job. I do want to say that I found the Order to be a bit of a deus ex machina, though.

 

 

 

The reason you don't know the answer to that question is your decision to think that no fiction is very important.

 

More poor wording on my part. I wasn't trying to say that fiction wasn't important; rather, I was trying to say that no specific fiction is so important that an alternative version must be decried as heresy.

 

 

 

Totally agree.

 

Basically, everything you said was awesome and is my line of thinking exactly. But unlike me, you said it very well.

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More poor wording on my part. I wasn't trying to say that fiction wasn't important; rather, I was trying to say that no specific fiction is so important that an alternative version must be decried as heresy.

Right, but the quote you said it in reply to wasn't asking that -- it just asked why people take the canon seriously. :) And only a tiny percentage actually calls it anything like heresy anyways.

 

it doesn't feel like you're developing it but actually discovering it.

Exactly, and that is because of the supreme role of the subconscious, and its ability to discern "what would actually happen" often better than the conscious. :)

 

I don't have time to say more at moment, sorry for that... Hope that helps maybe a little. ^_^

 

Edit: To other points:

 

I suppose that could have been how they did it, but we can't know that.

Sure we can. Greg has been talking to us about how he writes and what goals the story team had all this time. Surely we can learn from what they've said?

 

Once something is discovered it can't just be arbitrarily changed. Of course just because I and the other writers I know do it this way doesn't mean Greg and the team did, so it's a fair argument to make. In my opinion, however, I have found that stories that stick to the original bible tend to be far more coherent.

Like I said at the very start of my replies in here, it really isn't arbitrary -- that's important. The discovery of story happens the most as you write it. Early plans are like best guesses at what will be discovered, but they aren't a story. It's only as you're writing that you have the strongest understanding of the most factors (and sometimes in revising stage too) that would make events unpredictable, so that early guesses of what would happen were wrong.

 

Nobody's saying that they should (or did) just flip coins at various points and differ from older plans. If things that were planned were changed, they were changed for reasons.

 

I guess the question is if you're talking about things I call "arena" details -- like the giant robot, versus "outlining" -- planning events, or side details. Things like the giant robot that cause the world we see in the story don't change (basically can't change), but "what will happen" very much can. And many side details can be improved as you go on too. They kind of have to be, or you don't really have a story, you just have a beginning.

 

Put it this way -- if discovery ends before you even get started, or only early on, then the story from then on becomes boring. That's why the grander kind of mystery story that is open to new things coming in later, that fans couldn't have expected from the start, tends to be so much better, at least for me. Not sure if any of this actually answers the question for you, but it's an attempt. :)

 

Now, they have direct access to it - meaning we who seek to understand this universe must get all of our information from them - but that doesn't mean they have control. So that's why I tend to think of the story bible as canon, even if I can't put my hands on it. I can't get lost in a fictional universe if it refuses to act like a universe.

I'm not following you here. Perhaps you could clarify? Best guess is that you seem to think early plans are "most canon", when "canon" is defined by the storytellers. They defined the early plans, and they defined (and refined) the finished story. If the early plans are "real", they are real only because the storytellers made them. So if what storytellers make can be "real", then the story they make is also "real." (We all understand we don't mean "real" literally.)

 

The Goa'uld were cool. But such a change would complete delegitimize the evil that came before.

Also not following this. Not sure why we're talking about a Who villain anyways (:P), but if he was a parasite, that doesn't affect how evil he would be. It would just mean the form of his body was one particular answer -- and in "whatisit" mysteries, when that is answered it always narrows it down to just one option versus many different fan theories that could be out there. Trick is to enjoy that narrowing down, like the narrowing down to the truth of a crime.

 

Now, if in a whodunnit you find out the killer actually killed in self-defense, that would mean early fan assumptions that the killer was evil were wrong, but then those would never have actually been legitimate in the first place; that would be "guilty until proven innocent." But Makuta's evil (I assume this is what we're talking about) is canon. So... not sure what we're really talking about here... :P

 

I do want to say that I found the Order to be a bit of a deus ex machina, though.

Really? I suppose a case could be made in a few situations, but by and large they refused to get involved, and some of their involvements weren't good. They really weren't introduced clearly until we got identify with them. So, rather than being like CIA agents mysteriously showing up and saving the day for a cop all the time, it was more like we were watching the CIA agents as some of the protagonists (in a multi-protagonist story as Bionicle was), helping another protagonist, the cop (Toa), but with major limits so they couldn't help him in many situations to preserve secrecy. That isn't much like DEM. Maybe slightly. (And you did say "a bit", so I won't overthink this. :P)

Edited by bonesiii

The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive)Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants

My Bionicle Fanfiction  (Google Drive folder, eventually planned to have PDFs of all of it)

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Canonicity promotes community. By creating this vast world and the complex story therein, Lego has given us fans a common interest (aside from the toys themselves). Although we may have differing opinions on various things, we're basically all on the same page when we get together and talk about this fictional world. Not only that, but, obviously, there's nothing stopping every single fan from joining in on the fun. "Sandbox" worlds, however, have the disadvantage of not giving the fans much to work with, which prompts said fans to go off on their own to create their own headcanons, inadvertently alienating themselves from each other in some cases. These fans are more likely to become very private about their headcanons, while the popular fans are, for the most part, more than happy to share theirs. Take the Minecraft fandom for example. Because there is no official backstory for anything in that game (as far as I know), every single fan has his own headcanon for it. Some fans will probably never divulge their headcanons, and are content to never look into others. Where, then, are you going to find published headcanons to sate whatever curiosity you have? From the popular artists/writers who were unfortunate enough to have gained a rabid following. Said followers have turned that side of the fandom into a fairly unpleasant one, going so far as to bullying other blogs until the owners up and leave. Why? Because of the "which fanon is 'canon'?" war. 

Bionicle has a vast universe and a fascinating story. Some of my oldest friendships where formed because my buddies and I could geek out about the same world/story, talk about what we liked and disliked, who our favorite characters where, theories about what might happen next in the story... If Bionicle had turned out to be a sandbox world, I probably never would have talked about it with anyone. Do I have my own headcanons? Sure (thanks to the AU reveal *cough cough*). But they're all heavily based on canon, which I enjoyed very much. Sure, there were tiny things here and there I may have found a little meh, but, overall, I loved the story Lego provided us. (Yes, the whole thing; movies and all.)

Long story short: Bionicle canon gave me something I could enjoy with others, which made it all the more enjoyable. 

Also, I'll fully admit that I'm too lazy to study up on a dozen different fan-fics of the same toy. *cough* (And there goes the sense of community.)

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Look, we can all write our own fanfics and create our stories or whatever, which I think most, if not all, of us have done at some point along the line. I like my stories, I really do, but they aren't the same as the original story. I prefer Greg's work to my own. It has a certain style to it that's very different to how I write, play and construct, and I still like the original story better than my own. It was the canon that I fell in love with as a child, that enchanted and enthralled me for nigh on ten years, and it's the canon that I want back. 

 

With our fanfics, we all write what we want to, and enjoy Bionicle our own way, but the official canon story was something none of us could change. Some of us loved it, others hated it, some were ambivalent, and some apparently denied it altogether, but at least we had that common story tying it all together, giving us all something to discuss and enjoy. 

 

As Silverglass said: Canonicity promotes community.

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  • 1 month later...

The main reason canon matters in ANY story is that it is a shared experience. You can create your own headcanons about ANY series, but they won't necessarily be agreed upon by other fans, who might have their own headcanons. The actual canon, on the other hand, is the same for everyone. It makes up the core upon which all headcanons are based. All the media in a series (books, movies, etc.) will be based on that canon, and the actual canon is more often than not what will draw in fans.

 

Hero Factory was basically designed to be open to all manner of headcanon, establishing a boundless universe with room for any number of original characters from the get-go. But its story never really became as popular as Bionicle's, because the actual, core canon (especially as represented by the TV episodes) was weaker. Plenty of fans created their own headcanons to try to make up for that, but that resulted in a story that fans couldn't agree on or relate to on the same level as Bionicle.

 

 

______________________________________________________________________________________________

IMO This is where lego made the biggest mistake with HF people loved bionicle simply becaue It had a story that was laid out one that you could build on but at its core bionicle was based upon the story(Aside from the $)

All aboard the HypeTrain. We Leave Bionicle Station Jan 1 2015.

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I've mentioned this before, but I think that a big problem with the story was an overcrowding of plot points.

 

2001 to 2003 were very "modular" stories. They revolved around the Toa collecting a bunch of items, and took place over indeterminate lengths of time. Though the beginning and end of each story arc was spelled out in some detail, the bulk of each year was left up to our imaginations; the story had a TON of breathing room because we only ever saw the Toa collect a couple of masks/krana/etc. Most of the focus was on world-building rather than story, because that was more important as a backdrop for creative play.

 

In 2004, the books introduced a far more detailed story. Things didn't feel too cramped yet because there were six books in one year, but the plot itself was more concrete--you couldn't really dream up a big adventure for the Toa Metru to insert into the middle of that year, because that would conflict with canon. With each following year there were fewer books, and by 2006, Greg decided to write them as a fast-paced thriller set over just a couple of weeks. The density and speed of the story was up exponentially from the early years, and there wasn't any wiggle room in the story. Canon had become very rigid and oppressive.

 

I think the existence of canon was a blessing that turned into a curse. Minor contradictions in the early story weren't a big deal because the plot was so open-ended, but a slight inconsistency in a tightly-plotted year like 2007 could unravel the whole thing. It should never have reached that point of story complexity. 

 

One of my favorite books by Greg is Tales of the Masks from 2003, because it's basically a collection of adventures that are only tangentially related to the main story arc. I hope that 2015 returns to that kind of open-ended story. Something like this each year:

 

Introduce Main Conflict   >>>   Assorted adventures, not too tightly plotted   >>>   Resolve Main Conflict

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Bionicle, IMO, makes for a good Batman... on his 75th birthday, are you going to say the Nolan films are Canon, and everything else isn't? How do you decide which to follow, the Arkham games, or the films? Maybe you're like my Dad, and actually enjoyed the 60's TV show... back when it was airing new episodes on TV. The different interpretations, canon or not, don't matter- what matters is the core story which we share, and where we take it from there.

 

 

I don't think you know what 'canon' means. You seem to think that, in the case of Batman, there can only be one 'canon'. Of course that's not true; DCAU Batman lives within his own universe, Nolan Batman lives within his own universe, and New 52 Batman lives inside his own universe. They're all canon; with something like Batman, there is no "true" canon.

 

For Bionicle there is a true canon. Books, comics, and films may have their errors, but Greg always clears things up. Frankly, anything that comes out of Greg's mouth is the #1 source of canon at this point.

Edited by TheSkeletonMan939
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To be a little frank (and since I don't have time to analyze everything at the moment), it seems to me that you're far fromt he best source for this, since, per your own concessession, you have pretty much disregarded every piece of story from the get-go. Of course you don't have any investment in the lore to care about losing, so wouldn't see the point in others wanting to see it continued, because you chose not to.

 

I agree that the core franchise should be the drawing point. And I don't think the Batman comparison is a bad one, either - it does give a good example of there being different continuities, each with their own canon. That's the issue here. BIONICLE has always had a single continuity and that's what people invested in. I've made it no secret that I wouldn't be opposed to a reboot, but would prefer a "soft reboot" that does its own thing while leaving that lore intact instead of disregarding it.

 

So sorry for any offense, but to me... your decade-plus perspective has colored you to be irrevocably opposed to everyone else who took the opposite interest, and that's why you can't really see the point. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. You enjoyed BIONICLE as you saw fit... it's just what I see as the root of why you're questioning the antics of everyone else, which may seem so foreign to you.

 

~|ET|~

Edited by Electric Turahk
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E-T... Phone home.

 

"He walks among us, but he is not one of us."

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My headcanon: The elements aren't exclusively one-gender, but gender-dominant. The 'Element Prefix'-Matoran naming is used for all elementally-aligned creatures (Onu-Toa, Vo-Turaga, Ga-Skakdi). Marendar is a giant (taller than 2 Toa standing atop each other) dragon-like humanoid that can throw Rhotuka-like discs of Plasma. All Kanohi move with the face of their wearer, allowing Matoran species to express themselves. The Great Beings, Glatorian and Agori are post-human species. New Atero is protected by mixed Toa/Glatorian teams. The Spherus Magna Arenas now hold Kohlii tournaments in addition to training bouts for the Toa and Glatorian.

 

Does any of this prevent others from enjoying canon? No. That's the point of Headcanon. Who's to say my headcanon is wrong? Not anyone else. I make up headcanon as I encounter any series. Canon helps me build it, gives me rules within to work.

:r: :e: :g: :i: :t: :n: :u: :i:

Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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I have a headcanon about the Vahi, which is that its powers function in a similar way to the One Ring; the power it grants the user is on a level comparable to user themselves. So a Toa can only slow down or speed up time, a Makuta might have greater control and some additional minor powers, but a being of great power like Artahka can use the Vahi freely (perhaps even to travel through time).

 

For the record, I ignore a lot of what Greg says. While I adore the canon, there are a lot of things (like the gender ratios) which annoy me, so I tend to adapt and make a lot of headcanon. That doesn't affect anyone else's enjoyment of the main canon, though.

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So a Toa can only slow down or speed up time, a Makuta might have greater control and some additional minor powers, but a being of great power like Artahka can use the Vahi freely (perhaps even to travel through time).

You're essentially right about this; Greg confirmed the mask could be used by a mind of enough intelligence/whatever for time travel, but Artakha is apparently not such a person, nor is anyone known. If memory serves.

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