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The Color of Noble Kanohi


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I was looking around on BS01 for the answer to this question but I wasn't able to find the answer. When a Toa wears a Noble Kanohi, does the mask assume the primary or secondary color of the Toa's armor? Like when Tahu wears a Noble Huna, is it orange or red? I realized the collectible noble masks released in '01 came in the Toa's secondary colors to match the Turaga, but is that the canon color for the Toa?

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In MNOG, when Kopaka used his Huna and Mahiki, it was colored in his primary color. When Lewa used his Komau on the Nui-Kopen, It was colored in his primary color. The only one with different color was Onua, I don't know why.

 

My guess is that the noble Kanohi came in Turaga colors in 2001 because you were meant to use noble masks on them.

 

But to answer your question: 

 

When Kanohi are made originally, they adopt a grayish color which they keep until they are worn. At that point the mask adopts a color with respect to the wearer.

 

 

That also explains why Lewa's mask went gray when the Nui-Kopen removed it.  ^_^

Edited by HoloTheWise
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Just while we are on the topic of Noble Kanohi, where did they come from? Did the Turaga have to find them?

 

There are a lot of explanations for this, the one I know is that the Turaga brought it with them, but Makuta's Rahi stole it and the Toa had to find them.

Edited by HoloTheWise
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The only one with different color was Onua, I don't know why.

http://biosector01.com/wiki/images/4/44/Onua_Matatu.PNG

 

I've never heard it said to be different, nor thought that myself. Looking at it, I'm not 100% sure, but it seems like you're probably reacting to there being more shading visible on the body behind the mask, so you're seeing more black there, while that is a very smooth mask. If you compare to the lighter parts on the body, and especially the claws (also black in set form), the mask is about the same.

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The only one with different color was Onua, I don't know why.

http://biosector01.com/wiki/images/4/44/Onua_Matatu.PNG

 

I've never heard it said to be different, nor thought that myself. Looking at it, I'm not 100% sure, but it seems like you're probably reacting to there being more shading visible on the body behind the mask, so you're seeing more black there, while that is a very smooth mask. If you compare to the lighter parts on the body, and especially the claws (also black in set form), the mask is about the same.

 

 

I don't know, for me this noble Matatu is looking like a OldDkGray (same mask color as Turaga Whenua), whereas it should be the same color as Onua's torso.

Edited by HoloTheWise
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Just while we are on the topic of Noble Kanohi, where did they come from? Did the Turaga have to find them?

 

There are a lot of explanations for this, the one I know is that the Turaga brought it with them, but Makuta's Rahi stole it and the Toa had to find them.

See fishers' post here:

 

http://www.bzpower.com/board/topic/13476-why-matoran-are-so-weak/?p=696284

 

My post before it showed the other explanation a lot of us thought was right (including BS01), but as far as we know from official confirmations right now, what you say here is the only answer. I'm not sure where the other one came from.

 

The only one with different color was Onua, I don't know why.

http://biosector01.com/wiki/images/4/44/Onua_Matatu.PNG

 

I've never heard it said to be different, nor thought that myself. Looking at it, I'm not 100% sure, but it seems like you're probably reacting to there being more shading visible on the body behind the mask, so you're seeing more black there, while that is a very smooth mask. If you compare to the lighter parts on the body, and especially the claws (also black in set form), the mask is about the same.

 

I don't know, for me this noble Matatu is looking like a OldDkGray (same mask color as turaga whenua), whereas it should be the same color as Onua's torso.

But what I'm saying is, you're looking at a mostly lit side of the mask, but mostly in shading part of the torso. Look just at the lit parts of Onua's torso. They're virtually the same, if not. And the claws. I think it's probably just a matter of how a flash animation can handle black -- it can't look actually black or you wouldn't see the shape of it.

 

Hey, since I know of a way to actually check this objectively... *pastes into GIMP, uses eyedropper on light side of both, reads numbers*

 

Mask middle-lit shade RGB: 60, 60. 60

Torso middle-lit shade RGB: 60, 60, 60

 

Mask brightest-lit shade RGB: 81, 81, 81

Claw brightest-lit shade RGB: 81, 81, 81

 

Optical illusion. :) Probably the same principle as in this:

 

http://www.digi-graphics.com/graphic/p_images/how_to_pics/seeing_believing/optical%20illusion01.jpg

 

Although, the only part of the torso itself that matches is the upper neck, which in the set is a light gray (obviously the MNOG version ignores that set detail), but the claw clinches it, as that is definitely the same black as the torso. It's just that the torso proper doesn't have any part meant to be angled as much toward the light in that image as the mask.

 

Also, checking against this image:

 

http://biosector01.com/wiki/images/a/ac/MNOLG_Toa_Onua_Mata.PNG

 

The results are identical. It's black. :)

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Just while we are on the topic of Noble Kanohi, where did they come from? Did the Turaga have to find them?

 

There are a lot of explanations for this, the one I know is that the Turaga brought it with them, but Makuta's Rahi stole it and the Toa had to find them.

See fishers' post here:

 

http://www.bzpower.com/board/topic/13476-why-matoran-are-so-weak/?p=696284

 

My post before it showed the other explanation a lot of us thought was right (including BS01), but as far as we know from official confirmations right now, what you say here is the only answer. I'm not sure where the other one came from.

 

The only one with different color was Onua, I don't know why.

http://biosector01.com/wiki/images/4/44/Onua_Matatu.PNG

 

I've never heard it said to be different, nor thought that myself. Looking at it, I'm not 100% sure, but it seems like you're probably reacting to there being more shading visible on the body behind the mask, so you're seeing more black there, while that is a very smooth mask. If you compare to the lighter parts on the body, and especially the claws (also black in set form), the mask is about the same.

 

I don't know, for me this noble Matatu is looking like a OldDkGray (same mask color as turaga whenua), whereas it should be the same color as Onua's torso.

But what I'm saying is, you're looking at a mostly lit side of the mask, but mostly in shading part of the torso. Look just at the lit parts of Onua's torso. They're virtually the same, if not. And the claws. I think it's probably just a matter of how a flash animation can handle black -- it can't look actually black or you wouldn't see the shape of it.

 

Hey, since I know of a way to actually check this objectively... *pastes into GIMP, uses eyedropper on light side of both, reads numbers*

 

Mask middle-lit shade RGB: 60, 60. 60

Torso middle-lit shade RGB: 60, 60, 60

 

Mask brightest-lit shade RGB: 81, 81, 81

Claw brightest-lit shade RGB: 81, 81, 81

 

Optical illusion. :) Probably the same principle as in this:

 

http://www.digi-graphics.com/graphic/p_images/how_to_pics/seeing_believing/optical%20illusion01.jpg

 

Although, the only part of the torso itself that matches is the upper neck, which in the set is a light gray (obviously the MNOG version ignores that set detail), but the claw clinches it, as that is definitely the same black as the torso. It's just that the torso proper doesn't have any part meant to be angled as much toward the light in that image as the mask.

 

Also, checking against this image:

 

http://biosector01.com/wiki/images/a/ac/MNOLG_Toa_Onua_Mata.PNG

 

The results are identical. It's black. :)

 

 

Oh ! now I get it  ;) It's also interesting to notice how his mask has similiar color has similiar properties in the 2003 animation: http://biosector01.com/wiki/images/4/4b/Onua_Nuva.png

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Just while we are on the topic of Noble Kanohi, where did they come from? Did the Turaga have to find them?

 

There are a lot of explanations for this, the one I know is that the Turaga brought it with them, but Makuta's Rahi stole it and the Toa had to find them.

 

And where did the Turaga get them?

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And where did the Turaga get them?

Metru Nui, same as all the masks (and everything else they brought).

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But did they make them, or find them, or what?

It was a bunch of extras stored in the Great Temple. :) Which they loaded onto the airships before leaving for the final trip.

 

(And as for making them, Vakama probably made some of them when he was just a Matoran maskmaker, but who knows.)

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But did they make them, or find them, or what?

It was a bunch of extras stored in the Great Temple. :) Which they loaded onto the airships before leaving for the final trip.

 

(And as for making them, Vakama probably made some of them when he was just a Matoran maskmaker, but who knows.)

 

It is also interesting to note that Turaga never brought great versions of their masks, only nobles one. But I guess this have already been retconned by now...

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It is also interesting to note that Turaga never brought great versions of their masks, only nobles one. But I guess this have already been retconned by now...

No it hasn't, as far as I know. :)

 

Either that's what was available, or Vakama may have already received visions that future Toa (identity unknown to him) would be familiar with just those masks, so may have thought others would have the "time to learn" problem his team experienced. Plus there could have been thousands of other powers to choose from, and only so much room on the airships.

Edited by bonesiii
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It is also interesting to note that Turaga never brought great versions of their masks, only nobles one. But I guess this have already been retconned by now...

No it hasn't, as far as I know. :)

 

Either that's what was available, or Vakama may have already received visions that future Toa (identity unknown to him) would be familiar with just those masks, so may have thought others would have the "time to learn" problem his team experienced. Plus there could have been thousands of other powers to choose from, and only so much room on the airships.

 

Why bring Noble kanohi to Toa when you can bring Great ones that are more powerful ? Unless the Turaga were meant to use them, of course.

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Honestly, I was impressed on how mask maker Vakama didn't even know what kind of mask he was wearing. Was it possible that he only made a few types of masks? Being one of the best you would have assumed he would know most of the masks, or at least his own.

 

Also, is there any record that the turaga even used the other kanohi other than their primary?

Edited by Scather
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Honestly, I was impressed on how mask maker Vakama didn't even know what kind of mask he was wearing. Was it possible that he only made a few types of masks? Being one of the best you would have assumed he would know most of the masks, or at least his own.

 

Also, is there any record that the turaga even used the other kanohi other than their primary?

Well, a Kanohi Mask doesn't have to be a certain shape for its to have a certain power. Both Turaga Dume and Toa Norik's Kanohi look the same, but they have different powers. So its possible that Vakama could've recognized the shapes of his and his fellow Toa's Kanohi but not know what powers they had.

 

I don't recall in the story if the Turaga used other Kanohi other their primary ones, but I do thinks possible that they could've used them once the Toa Mata obtained them. It just wasn't shown in story.

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So then it could have been possible that the Huna Vakama wore was not the shape of a typical great Huna? Because if it was the standard shape of a great Huna, I can't imagine him not knowing that. Balta also wore the same mask on Voya Nui, so maybe it was a foreign varient that Vakama could have come to possess?

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Why bring Noble kanohi to Toa when you can bring Great ones that are more powerful ? Unless the Turaga were meant to use them, of course.

It's the latter. They brought the Noble Kanohi for themselves, though the Toa were able to borrow them as they used the same Suva. Basically, like I said, it comes down to space/weight limits on the airships. Keep in mind they were transporting virtually the entire population, a thousand Matoran, of Metru Nui, all of those in bulky pods.

 

Honestly, I was impressed on how mask maker Vakama didn't even know what kind of mask he was wearing. Was it possible that he only made a few types of masks? Being one of the best you would have assumed he would know most of the masks, or at least his own.

There could be many thousands of types of masks, so for all we know he was somewhat of an expert, but just not on that shape or the others the Toa Metru wore. Apparently he wasn't that interested in knowing what the shape-label he was wearing went to. Although there are a few other theories that have been floated, and the exact explanation canonically still isn't really clear.

 

Also, is there any record that the turaga even used the other kanohi other than their primary?

Given that we now know they originally had all the Nobles on the Suva, and most were later stolen by the Rahi, it would make sense they used to use their extras. And it's slightly possible in the short time after the Toa Mata recollected them. I can't really think of any confirmed examples though.

 

So then it could have been possible that the Huna Vakama wore was not the shape of a typical great Huna?

Matoran Vakama wore a stylized version somewhere between the Noble and Great standard shapes, so that's somewhat confirmed, but it was still clearly recognizeable as a Huna so this can't be the explanation for why he didn't know the power as a Toa. The versions as Toa and Turaga are almost definitely standard because no maskmaker carved those shapes; they came out of the transformations. So unless protodermis has some bizarre reason to use rare alternate shapes that their wearer doesn't know, I'd go with no, if you mean as a Toa.

 

Because if it was the standard shape of a great Huna, I can't imagine him not knowing that.

Some of the theories involve them simply not "understanding" the power even though they might actually know, like "book-knowledge". But more likely, seemingly, it was just not something his personality made him curious enough about to look up. I also have a theory about this in my retelling (coming up soonish, if memory serves) which settles all the issues with Vakama's lack of mask knowledge simply.

 

Note to that all the Toa Metru had this lack of... understanding or knowledge or whatever it was. I think that what we can most likely deduce in general is that Matoran tended to look at the shapes they picked (or were assigned) for faces as just "cool shapes", whereas Vakama would only need to memorize the shapes that go with powers if he was actually asked to make a powered mask (Great or Noble), which would probably be rare.

 

But it can get even more complicated than that, too. (Especially if they always make sure to mix the right power even for Matoran masks, so that the right shape will go with the right power if they get Toa-ized. But that could be done by diskmakers would could just hand him the mixed Kanoka and a "catalog-order" image of the shape, so he personally wouldn't necessarily need to be an expert on what shapes go with what powers.) That basically sums up past discussions on it.

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I actually asked Greg and he confirmed that the masks turn the primary color. He also said the Vakama knew the Metru Nui style masks, and that his Huna could have been acquired from a trade. Which I would assume why we see both Sarda and Balta wear great Hunas, since they were native to the Southern Continent and that style could have originated there.

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I have looked this up before: the basic principle is that being able to make a car isn't the same is knowing how to drive it. (Vakama might have known what his mask was, but he didn't know how to activate it.)
 
*goes to grab the information*
 

What I could find:
QUOTE (jimmybob)
1A.) Just wondering: I could buy that, say, Onewa wouldn't know what a Great Komau or other mask looked like. But since Vakama was a mask maker, shouldn't he know what all of their masks do when he sees them?

1B.) Or is it that they know what powers their masks have, they are only not able to access them until the movie? (Like knowing the 'what,' just not the 'how'.) Thanks a lot

QUOTE (Greg F)

1) Not really. It's established in the original script of the movie that Vakama has not made very many Great Masks before he is asked to make the Mask of Time.

2) It's established in the novels and in the movie that they do not know what their mask powers are. At one point in the film, Matau mistakenly believes his mask lets him fly.

 

There you go...

Edited by fishers64
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Then I guess Vakama and other mask makers don't follow this chart

Sure they do -- but the REAL chart would be WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY bigger (or could be :P). 'Cuz there's way more possible mixtures than that.

 

And like I mentioned before, we don't really know if maskmakers handle mixtures -- maybe diskmakers do that on their own?

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