Did the Makuta have too many Powers and Abilities?

[Toa Smoke Monster]

So here is a question that I've been wondering about for a while. Did the Makuta have too many powers and abilities? Forty Two powers are a lot for one being to have, and doesn't include their abilites to use Shadow Powers and Kanohi Masks. Here is a link to the BS01 Rahkshi page that has all of their powers listed:

 

http://biosector01.com/wiki/index.php/Rahkshi

 

Note: I know that Makuta lose some of their powers when they are inhabiting a robot or soul-less body or if they are exposed to Pit Mutagen. I'm asking this question from the perspective that the Makuta in question have all their abilities and are inhabiting Makuta Armor. I just want to state this to avoid any confusion

 

Anyway, I say that the Makuta did have too many powers. I know that they couldn't use more than one of them at a time, but I still thought that they had way too many. As for the second question, I would simply let them have fewer powers but let each of them have different ones, kind of like Toa with different elemental powers or the Piraka. 

 

Now I want to hear from you guys. What do you all think about this?

[Some Random Phrase]

My problem is the sheer expanse of a few of them. Cases in point: Dodge, Quick Healing, Limited invulnerability. Depower those a little, and it would be better.

[bonesiii]

No because powerful antagonists improve stories generally.

 

As good guys, kinda yeah, though (like Alteridax ).

Edited August 8, 2014 by bonesiii

[LordofBionicles]

Maybe they had more powers than needed which sometimes made you think why they didn't use more of them?

[Archon~]

Looking from a story standpoint, I never understood why the Makuta were given so many powers if they were meant to be creators of Rahi.

 

Jus'sayin'.

[V-N]

Looking from a story standpoint, I never understood why the Makuta were given so many powers if they were meant to be creators of Rahi.

 

Jus'sayin'.

 

Because it can be a hazardous job creating Lohrak?

 

I don't mind Makuta being extremely powerful, and even having a lot of different powers, but I think what they have is overdone. Some of their powers are redundant; while disintegration and shattering are technically different, they are too similar to be separate. Likewise for heat and laser vision, and sonics and power scream. It seems like Makuta hardly use all of their powers; since when did they ever use their sleep ability? "Merging" some to create a smaller pool sounds reasonable.

 

I also happen to not be a fan of them being able to control other elements besides shadow, but I can live with it.

[Zidonaro]

Yeah they have, but it doesn't bother me. I wouldn't adjust it.

[Banana Gunz]

Well... it seems like a lot to me, yes, but they're suppost to be extremely powerful as villians (and have many powers as rahi creators). The whole idea in 2008 was that the Makuta should've defeated the Nuva but were holding back for the Plan. It just makes the heroes have to fight a lot harder, which honestly seems fine to me, it just makes them seem more heroic and the makuta more dangerous. So I guess in the end I think it's fine.

[Wazdakka]

Well, my issue with Makuta powers is that they were never given the chance to showcase a whole ton of them. Also, there were so many that some became redundant - i.e. the Kraata Silence power was made redundant with the Kanohi Shelek, mask of silence. 

[Scather]

It doesn't bother me. I wish they would have made a lot more use of those powers, but maybe if somehow the story resumes, we'll see Tahu make use of some of them. The only thing that does really bother me is the absurd amount Kraata I have to collect! 

[V-N]

The only thing that does really bother me is the absurd amount Kraata I have to collect! 

 

I think that's the reason why Makuta have so many powers in the first place. LEGO released the various Kraata, and Greg gave a story explanation.

 

If anything, I like the numerous amount of Kraata to collect.

Edited August 9, 2014 by V-N

[Chro]

Yes.

I like the variety of powers, but clearly it's at least a little bit OP.

My headcanon for this (and I know I've mentioned it several times around here) is that, while there are 42+ possible Makuta powers, each can only easily access a handful, as their "specialties", so to speak. Then the higher-tier Makuta (such as Teridax, Miserix, maybe Icarax, Mutran, or Antroz) would have a more developed powerset fitting of their advanced status and experience.

So, for example, maybe one Makuta would specialize in destructive powers such as disintegration, shattering, and chain lightning, while another would have powers of insect control, power scream, etc.

Edited August 9, 2014 by ChroXumo

[Banana Gunz]

Yes.

I like the variety of powers, but clearly it's at least a little bit OP.

My headcanon for this (and I know I've mentioned it several times around here) is that, while there are 42+ possible Makuta powers, each can only easily access a handful, as their "specialties", so to speak. Then the higher-tier Makuta (such as Teridax, Miserix, maybe Icarax, Mutran, or Antroz) would have a more developed powerset fitting of their advanced status and experience.

So, for example, maybe one Makuta would specialize in destructive powers such as disintegration, shattering, and chain lightning, while another would have powers of insect control, power scream, etc.

 

That;s actually a great idea! Now don't mind if I steal that for my own head-canon...   

[Biff]

I think that yes, they did have too many powers.  But that was the point of the Makuta.  They were supposed to be extremely powerful and practically invincible.  But I like ChroXumo's idea of more powerful Makuta having easier access to certain powers.  It would explain why some powers such as elastisity, dodge, chameleon, sleep, and adaptation were never used. (which is a shame 'cuz some of these would be darn useful in a fight)

[toa kopaka4372]

No, I thought it was just right. They were supposed to be some of the most powerful beings in the universe, after all. Besides, combat experience matters in this case, and some of the Makuta were better at fighting, and thus more powerful, than others. A Toa whose really skilled should be able to take on a Makuta who's poor at fighting. Just because someone's powerful doesn't make them unbeatable.

[fishers64]

No, they were fine. I generally think that each Makuta prefers some powers as opposed to others out of their ginourmous set, and they wouldn't have time to learn all of them to the finer points. They did have 100,000 years to develop them though - but they also had to do other things and were lazy and self-entitled anyway, so I doubt they would have bothered. (And yet another dimension on these beings' character is revealed...) 

 

Alt. Teridax, on the other hand...powers? pshaw, I don't use those things. my warhammer is much better.

Edited August 10, 2014 by fishers64

[Nato G]

http://biosector01.com/wiki/index.php/Makuta

 

The very first line says it all. They were meant to enforce peace and stability, so of course they needed a vast variety of powers to suit the vast variety of issues they may have faced within the MU. It makes sense if you look at it canonically

 

Plus, villains with very few powers would have been quite boring. It makes for a better story if the villains have a far greater range of powers and resources to draw upon in a battle. It gives more of an "underdog" kind of feel to the heroes. 

 

But if the Makuta hadn't given in to arrogance and greed, who knows? Maybe they would have been the heroes instead. 

[NorikSigma]

They are The Makuta.

 

That's the point, ain't it?

 

Okay, to be fair, there were many redundant repetitive abilities but I really wouldn't remove or change them.

[Mailli]

I think the 40whatsit powers that they have are too much. It's hard to get my head round  just a few!

I think it would be better if each Makuta could select 3 Rakshi powers, a kanohi, and their antidermis stuff.

[Banana Gunz]

http://biosector01.com/wiki/index.php/Makuta

 

The very first line says it all. They were meant to enforce peace and stability, so of course they needed a vast variety of powers to suit the vast variety of issues they may have faced within the MU. It makes sense if you look at it canonically

 

Plus, villains with very few powers would have been quite boring. It makes for a better story if the villains have a far greater range of powers and resources to draw upon in a battle. It gives more of an "underdog" kind of feel to the heroes. 

 

But if the Makuta hadn't given in to arrogance and greed, who knows? Maybe they would have been the heroes instead. 

 

Actually, the Makuta were made to make rahi. They only decided later to be a little more useful. 

 

Plus, it's always great (and important) story-wise to have powerful villains who are a serious threat to the heroes, but with the vast amount of power the makuta have, it seems a little bit too much. Look at it this way: a single toa team has a total of about twelve powers. The Makuta has 40. It seems like a bigger difference than there should be in my opinion. Plus in Karda Nui, there were six of them. Even if a makuta can't use all the powers extremely well/has to concentrate, if he was to go one-on-one with another toa, they would be obliterated.

 

Like I've said before, Chro's idea is a really good way of keeping the Makuta balanced.

[bonesiii]

Actually, the Makuta were made to make rahi. They only decided later to be a little more useful. 

The first era of Rahi-making was always going to be much busier than later on, though -- it makes sense that they were intended to somehow or another help with peace/order after that task was done (and other Rahi-making was mostly rare and just to replace any that died), though they certainly did change their goals somewhat, partly because they gave into evil.

[Prime Axiom]

Nope, not at all. They were powerful entities assigned to create Rahi and usually it was 1 Makuta per island. They are the elite, alpha-species of the Matoran universe. From a storyline perspective, it made sense why they had to be all-powerful as well. I like the fact that it takes an entire Toa team to thwart one Makuta. 
 

[toabandit01-10]

You have to remember the great beings planned for Mata Nui and Makuta to create side-by-side. Makuta was a bit of a rebel, and ended up starting a universal war.

[Constructelf]

I thought that 40+ powers was WAY too much. I agree with what people said above about merging redundant powers to make it look a little saner as well as having each Makuta have a few powers that they specialize in.

[Xeo]

At first I thought Makuta had too many powers. And then it was revealed there was more than one Makuta. All of them with all those powers. I definitely thought that was overkill. But then they explained why, and we learned about the other Makuta. They had to make rahi. Some more dangerous than others. They had to be able to stop them if any got out of hand. Not to mention the Rahkshi. If they didn't have the powers the Rahkshi could that could be potentially dangerous as well.

 

Then we meet Makuta like Antroz who doesn't like killing the same way twice. And Icarax who likes brute force rather than schemes. Depending on their personality depends on what powers they use. I'm sure each Makuta has a favorite set of powers over others.

[bonesiii]

I've seen several arguments in here that the powers the Makuta had allegedly weren't necessary for them or were redundant. So, last night as I was working on an unrelated project, but that happens to involve the Makuta powers list, I thought of actually going through the list one by one and seeing if that's really reasonable.

 

Key: Normal black text means I'd definitely keep it. Green means a somewhat reasonable case can be made against it but due to stronger reasons for it I would give it a pass. Orange means I'm on the fence about it but leaning against. Red means the case for cutting it seems strong to me.

 

Heat Vision

 

You kind of have to keep this for obvious reasons.

 

Darkness (Shadow)

 

Obviously important to the nature of Makuta.

 

Weather Control
Plants Control
Rahi Control
Insect Control

 

I'd keep at least three of these. You could make a case that Insect Control could be lumped in with Rahi, especially since many insectoid Rahi like Nui-Jaga are clearly Rahi by the normal definition, but a case can also be made that that might make just one power itself overpowered! Splitting it up into two powers means that a Makuta cannot activate Rahi Control and control a lot of non-insectoid plus insectoid Rahi at the same time. (Note that the Stage Six Kraata definition of this power says: "Has absolute control over every living Rahi in the near area." On the other hand, the mask version does include insect control, but it's clarified that it's much less effective for them.) So this actually limits a Makuta's power.

 

This will be a theme throughout this list. Might seem counterintuitive at first glance (and this might be something people aren't factoring a lot), but it does make sense. Either way, it's true that those two are somewhat redundant, but I'm going to give this a definite pass because Makuta are focused specifically on Rahi. I won't be so kind to the other redundant powers; read on.

 

And the other two Controls make Makuta masters of the environment which I personally think is freaky cool, and I've always associated that strongly with Makuta ever since Comic 3.

 

Teleportation

 

Important to 2001 end plot. I remember being relieved when I first saw this on the Kraata powers list, confirming that Greg paid enough attention to the famous scene of the Toa mysteriously disappearing at MNOG end to realize that was a power of Makuta. Also endlessly practical for the Rahi-making task.

 

Stasis Field

 

Extremely useful if Rahi get out of hand. On the other hand, the availability of this one does make many of the others, which would otherwise be very useful for dealing with rowdy beasts, almost all somewhat redundant. However, there are other factors for what powers could do related to Rahi besides just stopping rampaging failed experiments or the like, and stasis is only a temporary solution anyways. Plus, Stage Six Kraata definition says "Has the power to freeze a creature in near-permanent stasis through eye contact." Meaning if you need to deal with more than one creature at a time, stasis will fail you.

 

Illusion

 

Could be very useful in experimenting psychologically with the Rahi after their creation to ensure they behave in the ways the Makuta intended when presented with certain visual stimuli.

 

Mind Reading

 

Similar to the above, but sensing Rahi thoughts to check they're working as planned rather than actions.

 

Chain Lightning

 

Solution to the problem of Stasis Field only affecting one at a time.

 

Power Scream

 

This power's usefulness is very questionable, as Sonics could do just about the same thing (judging by the Kohrak-Kal example uses in-story, although it's possible the Makuta version is weaker, and might make it less OP, etc.), and a lot more that would be useful as the audio version of Illusion above. I guess it's meant to be the high-powered super version of Sonics for extreme situations, and it does add to the creepy value of the Kraata/Rahkshi/Makuta, but I wouldn't mind if they cut it.

 

Cyclone

 

You'd think this would already be covered under Weather Control. Not marking red, though, just for the "keep Weather Control not OP" value.

 

Poison

 

Definitely keep this just because of its major plot role. Usefulness for Rahimakers? Well, it's disturbing but if an experimental Rahi fails, might be a somewhat humane way to put it down. (Although Tahu's partial poisoning didn't seem good for that... but maybe a combination of this and Sleep to knock them out first... and maybe there's a variety of types of poison they could make.) Also, nonfatal lesser doses of some poisons might test immunities.

 

Shattering

 

As one of the plot/set major powers, and as a good power for a villain, I'd keep this or one of the ones like it. I'm not sure what use it would really have with Rahimaking, though general "manipulation of surroundings" can make sense, I guess.

 

Disintegration

 

I'm really on the fence with this one, but its use in a set alongside Shattering is the deciding factor I guess. Blasting something to pieces versus to dust is at least a noticeable difference. It could reasonably have just been the finer-grained end of variation in the Shattering power. I think the reason for the difference is to give Makuta (and Rahkshi) more exact control over what is done with less need to focus; just pick one or the other rather than having to adjust a single power to a wide range of sizes.

 

Silence

 

The way sound works is a wave, and a production of a canceling wave should effect silence (or an absorption of it). Sonics is an elemental power (at least in Toa), so you'd think that would cover this, just like the Nuhvok-Kal can both make more gravity and cancel out gravity. However, the fast-moving nature of the waves could make proper overlap difficult so having different protodermis coding to handle it could make sense. Plus, it's also a Makuta Mask power... which can give points both pro and con (redundant for users of that mask, but also implying it's popular/useful). And it's good for villainy, but I wouldn't mind it going bye-bye.

 

Fear

 

It killed Jaller! Death by basically heart attack was a nice plot touch. And its usefulness in more gentle versions for testing Rahi behavior is obvious.

 

Hunger

 

Testing how Rahi act when low on life energy.

 

Anger

 

Rahi obviousness.

 

Slow

 

I'm not sure enough how this one works. If it basically is a gentler version of Stasis Field to slow things down, to better observe (for example) wings flapping or the like, Stasis Field should cover it. If it psychologically weakens targets instead, a lighter use of Sleep should do it. But I won't mark red just because I might be misunderstanding it. A quick glance at the Kraata definitions doesn't seem to clear it up, but yeah.

 

Confusion

 

Like the name of the power, its relevance to testing Rahi or is confusing, but that might be useful in and of itself -- just throw a wildcard element at the Rahi and see how it acts. Also a nice one for villainy purposes, similar to some of the 2003 Rahkshi. I might even like this as a candidate to have replaced Disintegration in 2003, though that would mess up the half-physical, half-energy/psychological thing.

 

Sleep

 

Definite keeper -- Stasis will incapacitate a Rahi as long as you keep the power on, but Sleep could last longer. Yet, it has downsides (ability to be awoken) that SF doesn't, so the two together make a lot of sense.

 

Quick Healing

 

If Rahi testing does lead to injury of the Makuta (esp. back when their antidermis was still in biomechanical form), servants of the Makuta, or the Rahi itself, makes a lot of sense. I was unsure off top of head if could only heal self or others, but review of 1st and 6th levels Kraata gives: "Can enter a hibernation state during which minor injuries quickly heal" and "can be used to heal the injuries of others."

 

Limited Invulnerability

 

A good defensive power if the Makuta is in a situation where danger from the Rahi (or later sapient/mostly-sapient enemies... which actually can include Rahi) is suspected but exact direction of attack and so forth are unclear. Also makes for terrifying villainy!

 

Shapeshifting

 

Duh.

 

Adaptation

 

Could be argued that Shapeshifting would cover this. But Shapeshifting is good for Makuta, being more intelligent, while Adaptation is a great power for lower level Kraata/Rahkshi. And I like it as early foreshadowing of the brilliant Adaptive Armor.

 

Chameleon

 

I like it, but a similar case against it as the above could be stronger. It doesn't seem likely that Makuta shapeshifting doesn't include color changing; Makuta formed Dume and stayed red all the time, and Makuta can't use two powers at once, so... Seems like overkill. I would prefer Chameleon/Camouflage being a mask power alone or something. I'll mark orange not red, though, just because simply blending in without any other thought needed while observing Rahi makes sense.

 

Accuracy

 

Say they need to test a Rahi's reflexes by throwing a rock at it at the right spot or the like, or test a built-in weakness (if any?). Could save a lot of time and effort.

 

Dodge

 

Another good option if they're attacked, especially if rather than just shut the Rahi down they want to keep observing what happens next.

 

Fire Resistance
Ice Resistance

 

These two should be essential, as antidermis has a weakness to both heat and cold, and Rahi should be made to inhabit both types of regions.

Laser Vision

 

Maybe it's just that I don't like the feel of lasers mixed with organic slug-eyes, but the redundancy of this one with Heat Vision is downright confusing. (What is being emitted in this one, if not heat, for example?) And Heat Vision is always illustrated with a visible laser. I'm tempted to mark orange just because testing Rahi behavior with a less harmful laser would make sense, but the power definition makes this sound just as dangerous as Heat Vision: "Fires powerful eye-beams that can burn through solid Protodermis." And a harmless "chase the dot of light" game could surely be tested with Illusion.

Gravity
Electricity
Sonics
Magnetism
Vacuum
Plasma

 

Since these all overlap the Kal elements, which always seemed suspect to me, I've marked most of these some variant of "maybe cut", except Sonics and Vacuum. Sonics was explained earlier, and Vacuum is the one that isn't a Toa element; it makes sense the "Acid, not Air" rule of normal green Bohrok would be extended to having the green Kal have a Rahkshi power rather than an element. And it could have tons of uses with Rahi.

 

Gravity could have tons of uses, not just in defending against Rahi but in moving the Rahi around to different testing areas. But Teleportation could probably do most of that. Magnetism could have a lot of applications similar to Gravity but could also have longer-lasting adhesive effects. Electricity I'm marking orange because if it can't do Chain Lightning, it sounds like the latter would be a better choice, if you had to choose... then again, lesser uses of it (a static zap for example) could help in behavioral testing. And Plasma seems like overkill, though admittedly it's a villainy power I like and have had Makuta use in at least one of my fanfics. A case could be made that it should be in there as an emergency battle situation, but at that point, they have so many more options that with a little cleverness could probably suffice, at some point maybe they should have been expected to call in a Toa of Plasma if they really needed it.

Molecular Disruption

 

Very similar to Disintegration. It's really hard, actually, to understand how it is different. The Stage Six definition even says: "Has the power to utterly disintegrate any inorganic object with a touch." I guess it would be every single protodermis molecule is separated, whereas Disintegration could have particles up to around sand particle sized perhaps, but the premise of this list was to identify the weakest and strongest cases for removal, not that any of them actually SHOULD be removed per se. Plus, the name is complicated and confusing. I'd rather keep both Shattering and Disintegration, and let them cut these two. (Yeah I know this is all too late to probably actually change, though. But for sake of analysis. )

 

Elasticity

 

I dunno. I always thought this one was almost too weird. Does add creepy value, and if Shapeshifting is fairly slow it shouldn't cover this. Still, if Adaptation is kept, couldn't this just be a type of adaptation?

 

Density Control
 

I don't include this with the other "controls" as it's not about controlling the environment; really could be just called Density, but that's off-topic. I wouldn't really mind it going away, but it does make sense for various tests, and it did give us one of the most memorable side-story incidents with a Rahkshi in the plot, so okay.

 

 

 

So, it's still debatable, but I'd only "definitely" cut three of them. I don't mind those staying in just for the 42 joke value. If you go harsh and take out all the orange, that leaves 32, so the people with the "lotsa powers = OP" preference still wouldn't really be happy. Even leaving only the black leaves 25 that definitely make sense for the task the Great Beings assigned the Makuta to. I strongly suggest a much better perspective on them is that 1) they're the villains, 2) it's realistic that a universe doesn't follow arbitrary "balance" rules anyways, 3) bold that Bionicle dared to blast it away in the case of one species, and more to to the point, 4) the balance in their case should be judged more on having a tiny population (as I've mentioned somewhere before), rather than number of powers per individual.

 

Making them a range of powers and different individuals have different ones wouldn't really help for this, as one Makuta testing one Rahi might need to call upon a lot of powers without needing to call in tons of associates, and it would make them more generic anyways. (Plus you have to keep in mind the "variety = spice" perspective Makuta once mentioned.)

 

Conclusion: with a little wiggle room for varying numbers of powers, I'd say how it is works, objectively, just fine. (Of course, subjectively somebody could still prefer them as more typical baddies, but the general rule of stronger villains seems to me to override that. )

Edited August 14, 2014 by bonesiii

[I Exist]

Considering they could activate only one power at once, I think that giving them a lot of alternative makes them alright.

After all, let's not forget the Makuta were meant to be the OP being of the universe, and they had to, so they could be

considered as "Mata-nui's Brother(s)". Also, I do not imagine some beings with Toa-like powers being able to bring so much

fear and control over so many people as well as being able to take down Mata-nui. It just add some realism.

If you only need to be bright to take down Mata-nui then what's the big deal ?