How did the rest of the Makuta get killed?

[fishers64]

This is probably my dumb question for the week, but how did Teridax off them all? Did he get all of the remaining Makuta into Karda Nui?

 

I know that Teridax offed a bunch of them that sided with Miserix, and then Tobduk killed Tridax...but I only count 8 Makuta in Karda Nui in 2008. Out of 100 Makuta, you'd think that some of them wouldn't fit into the above categories (opposed the plan, ended up in KN). 

[Van Hohenheim]

If they sided with him, he probably picked them off when he was in the GB body. 

 

If they sides against him, then they were killed by the brotherhood members that sided with Teridax.

[fishers64]

I thought he killed them all before he got in the robot, but could be wrong. When he took over, they were all dead. 

[ToaKapura1234]

I think BS01 says only five sided with Miserix, also you forgot to mention the deaths of Spiriah, Makuta of Stelt, and Kojol, plus the one Zaria killed, leaving 85 Makuta that Teridax was likely able to sense once he becamed the great spirit and used his new powers to destroy.

Edited August 12, 2014 by Toa K

[V-N]

I thought he killed them all before he got in the robot, but could be wrong. When he took over, they were all dead. 

 

It is known that Teridax kept some Makuta alive and forced them to mass produce Kraata, before he then killed them.

[Baron Von Nebula]

 

I thought he killed them all before he got in the robot, but could be wrong. When he took over, they were all dead. 

 

It is known that Teridax kept some Makuta alive and forced them to mass produce Kraata, before he then killed them.

 

This.  If you want to know specifically how he killed that group, I would guess crushing their armor with gravity, since that power was shown to be used the most by the Matoran Universe robot.  We never saw a conflict between Makuta where Rahkshi were involved, so we don't really know who they would obey- the one with the strongest will, or their creator.  This makes me lean away from Teridax having those Makuta be killed by any minions.

[bonesiii]

If you want to know specifically how he killed that group, I would guess crushing their armor with gravity, since that power was shown to be used the most by the Matoran Universe robot.

That would only free their antidermis. Might be part of it, but I'd think he'd somehow involve burning their antidermis, possibly without even bothering with the armor.

 

No easy way to guess, though -- he had basically any power he could imagine then, so lots of ways he'd do it. But we could probably narrow it down to burning antidermis somehow or another, since antidermis happens to not be kill-able easily by any other means. (Rapidly spreading it out would work too though.)

[Banana Gunz]

When you're a giant Robot the size of a planet with the ability to do almost anything you want, it's not a big bother for me to understand how he did it. 

[Ranaki_Pakewa]

He did have control over the temperatures inside of him, so he could have super-heated them in their prisons after he was done harvesting their kraata. Another possibility could be that might have forced them to use every ounce of their being to make the kraata. Is it possible for a Makuta to die from over-producing kraata?

[toa kopaka4372]

Let's not forget that several Makuta likely died over the course of the MU's 100,000 year old history, long before the GC and its aftermath. We know Zaria killed a Makuta, for example.

[ToaKapura1234]

 

If you want to know specifically how he killed that group, I would guess crushing their armor with gravity, since that power was shown to be used the most by the Matoran Universe robot.

That would only free their antidermis. Might be part of it, but I'd think he'd somehow involve burning their antidermis, possibly without even bothering with the armor.

 

No easy way to guess, though -- he had basically any power he could imagine then, so lots of ways he'd do it. But we could probably narrow it down to burning antidermis somehow or another, since antidermis happens to not be kill-able easily by any other means. (Rapidly spreading it out would work too though.)

 

In one of the serials, Matoro froze Teridax, who then worried about freezing to death.  (Despite the fact that non-Makuta have been frozen and thawed just fine ), so extreme temperature in either direction, spreading them out, or phasing them out of reality are all ways to kill gaseous Makuta.

[Chro]

I wouldn't be surprised if some of them were killed like how he took care of the Mangai... sending them out on "missions" to be killed.

 

"You there, Makuta Generix. Bring me the Staff of Something."

"Staff of Something? That sounds like..."

"Shut up and go get it. You definitely won't find Antroz and ten Exo-Toa waiting for you."

[Wazdakka]

Ok, but how come Mata Nui couldn't fry Teridax if Teridax killed all his Makuta brethren?

[fishers64]

I don't think Mata Nui was paying attention, and I think Teridax would know how to cover his tracks. He probably sent minions with his magic virus collection instead of doing it himself. By the time Mata Nui knew, he was too incapacitated to do anything except trick Makuta into making the right people Toa on Metru Nui. 

Edited August 12, 2014 by fishers64

[Xeo]

I don't think many Makuta saw it coming, let alone Mata Nui. I mean, Teridax has plans within plans. It shouldn't be too hard to manipulate his brothers and sisters into compromising situations. Especially after he took control from Miserix. Besides, only the ones Teridax knew posted more of a threat were sent to Karda Nui. I remember someone asking Greg if there were many Makuta left after the Destiny War and Teridax took power. He said know because Teridax eliminated him. Although I can't find the quote now so I can't promise 100%.

[Nato G]

The Makuta who didn't side with Teridax in the beginning were destroyed by those loyal to him. The ones on Karda Nui either wiped each other out or were destroyed in the energy storm, and Teridax wiped out the others once he took over the MU robot body. (The majority of them were stationed on the Makuta's home island of Destral, so he just blew it up, or sunk it, or something. I forget which). 

[ALVIS]

The Makuta who didn't side with Teridax in the beginning were destroyed by those loyal to him. The ones on Karda Nui either wiped each other out or were destroyed in the energy storm, and Teridax wiped out the others once he took over the MU robot body. (The majority of them were stationed on the Makuta's home island of Destral, so he just blew it up, or sunk it, or something. I forget which). 

 

No, no, no. A simple visit to BS01's Destral page would be sufficient, instead of half-remembered misinformation. The majority of the Makuta were not stationed on Destral at the end of the war -- we only know of Tridax being stationed there -- and it was not destroyed by Teridax, but rather by the Order of Mata Nui.

 

Teridax did sink many of the Brotherhood ships besieging Metru Nui in Destiny War, which were likely to have Makuta on board,. so several may have died in that event. Though, since Makuta can't drown in their evolved state, that may not have done much to kill them. Hmm.

[LouisTheFox]

Well when Teridax rose up again, he did happen to murder off the entire Makuta population on Daxia, because if I can remember well I think that Teridax hated the Makuta on Daxia because they were short in size, but yet stronger in power. I don't remember if this is true because it was like a year ago when I remember seeing this info.

[NorikSigma]

Well, before the takeover:

-5 Miserix loyalists

-Zaria killing one

-Some in accidents over the yeas?

-Destiny War

-Karda Nui

-Sending them to their deaths, like Chro showed above

 

That would take up maybe half of the Makuta?

 

After the the take over, it would be simple to open chasms in the ground(like what happened to Guardian) and swallow them in molten lava, incinerating their antidermis too. I mean come on he was the universe by then.

 

Then he would leave some weak-willed Makuta and force them to mass-produce Kraata. Then incinerate them.

 

Just As Planned.

Edited August 12, 2014 by Norik Of Celtania

[LouisTheFox]

The Makuta who didn't side with Teridax in the beginning were destroyed by those loyal to him. The ones on Karda Nui either wiped each other out or were destroyed in the energy storm, and Teridax wiped out the others once he took over the MU robot body. (The majority of them were stationed on the Makuta's home island of Destral, so he just blew it up, or sunk it, or something. I forget which). 

I imagine so, because it be like the same with the Dark Hunters, you betray them they will simply go and hunt you down and kill you. So yes I can imagine any of the Makuta who betrayed Teridax did happen to get murdered for betraying him... 

That is also true, when the Energy Storm hit Karda Nui most of the Makuta there were killed in the massive raging storm. 

That all I can remember well though... If I need to I will this information up on Biosector01 if I need to.

Well, before the takeover:

-5 Miserix loyalists

-Zaria killing one

-Some in accidents over the yeas?

-Destiny War

-Karda Nui

-Sending them to their deaths, like Voxumo showed above

 

That would take up maybe half of the Makuta?

 

After the the take over, it would be simple to open chasms in the ground(like what happened to Guardian) and swallow them in molten lava, incinerating their antidermis too. I mean come on he was the universe by then.

 

Then he would leave some weak-willed Makuta and force them to mass-produce Kraata. Then incinerate them.

 

Just As Planned.

Perhaps so, but there might be a few surviving Makuta that wonder among Spherus Magna now. I can probably can guess the ones who were just lucky to survive the destruction of Teridax and the Matoran Universe, might reform a new organization called the New Brotherhood of Makuta which could be a cult or underground resistance for all we know.

[NorikSigma]

No, it was explicitly confirmed that all the Makuta were killed. Although a rogue survivor would be awesome.

 

Or a Makuta mind took over Brutaka? That would be a cool twist. Brutaka being the 'last Makuta'.

Edited August 12, 2014 by Norik Of Celtania

[LouisTheFox]

No, it was explicitly confirmed that all the Makuta were killed. Although a rogue survivor would be awesome.

 

Or a Makuta mind took over Brutaka? That would be a cool twist. Brutaka being the 'last Makuta'.

That would be very interesting, Brutaka happens to now be a member of the Order of Mata Nui once again. But that still means he could get his mind corrupted by any surviving viruses that the Makuta could of made. 

 

No, it was explicitly confirmed that all the Makuta were killed. Although a rogue survivor would be awesome.

 

Or a Makuta mind took over Brutaka? That would be a cool twist. Brutaka being the 'last Makuta'.

That would be very interesting, Brutaka happens to now be a member of the Order of Mata Nui once again. But that still means he could get his mind corrupted by any surviving viruses that the Makuta could of made. 

 

Actually to recorrect you and myself, their is actually one last Makuta on Spherus Magna, Miserix. So yeah I guess Miserix is the last surviving Makuta, unless he makes more that is... 

[NorikSigma]

Oh right.

 

Yeah Miserix survived. How could I forgot that.

 

And I doubt he can manifest new Makuta from his Antidermis. But still...

[Matoro Lives]

Suicide missions seem like the easiest answer, since Teridax used the same method for getting rid ot the Toa Mangai. I have a headcanon that Teridax would slowly capture the antidermis of his makuta and return it to the antidermis pool on one of the southern islands. The merging of the antidermis would cause the makuta's mind to be wiped and Teridax could always return to the pool if he needed to create a new brainwashed makuta for himself.

[ALVIS]

Well when Teridax rose up again, he did happen to murder off the entire Makuta population on Daxia, because if I can remember well I think that Teridax hated the Makuta on Daxia because they were short in size, but yet stronger in power. I don't remember if this is true because it was like a year ago when I remember seeing this info.

 

We regret to inform you that this piece of information is most certainly not true.

 

There were no Makuta on Daxia. Daxia was the base of the Order of Mata Nui, not exactly a Makuta-friendly organization. The only reason a Makuta would have been there is if he/she were imprisoned. Teridax razed Daxia to rid himself of the Order of Mata Nui, not the Brotherhood of Makuta, for the latter was already defunct.

 

As for some Makuta being shorter but more powerful, the very suggestion is laughable. Where did you hear this preposterous notion? The fact of the matter is that all Makuta had the same set of powers, some (Teridax, Antroz, Icarax) were just more skilled with those than others. And no Makuta were really any shorter than the others, because they were all shapeshifters​.

Edited August 12, 2014 by Yaldabaoth

[Wazdakka]

I don't think Mata Nui was paying attention, and I think Teridax would know how to cover his tracks. He probably sent minions with his magic virus collection instead of doing it himself. By the time Mata Nui knew, he was too incapacitated to do anything except trick Makuta into making the right people Toa on Metru Nui.

 

That makes no sense. What about the Order of Mata Nui? Heck, why didn't Mata Nui deal with the League of Six Kingdoms? None of this lines up if you think about it (I mean Teridax using the robot's powers internally).

[NorikSigma]

Mata Nui never bothered about the beings inside him until he was kicked out, which is pretty obvious by his remorse at not taking care of the Matoran.

 

The thing with the Toa Metru... I think that might be a bit hard. Out-of-universe, retroactive continuity might mess up the contradictory idea of Mata Nui not caring and his deceitful lying of who was destined to be the Toa Metru.

 

A possible resolution is that Mata Nui's sleeping took a while to manifest, slowly shutting down. By the time he realised the problem and the betrayal, he probably couldn't focus properly to destroy Makuta, but had time to do something else.

 

And more importantly, what's the use? He needed Toa to protect his most important organ:his brain. So he decided to do the whole "Fake Toa Metru" scam so the most suited or destined Matoran would be the ones to become the Toa Metru, as that was more important.

 

As for your statement of the OoMN, could you clarify? I don't understand.

[bonesiii]

I don't think Mata Nui was paying attention, and I think Teridax would know how to cover his tracks. He probably sent minions with his magic virus collection instead of doing it himself. By the time Mata Nui knew, he was too incapacitated to do anything except trick Makuta into making the right people Toa on Metru Nui.

That makes no sense. What about the Order of Mata Nui? Heck, why didn't Mata Nui deal with the League of Six Kingdoms? None of this lines up if you think about it (I mean Teridax using the robot's powers internally).

What makes no sense? What fishers said is almost certainly canon, and definitely does make sense. If what you meant to say is "Why didn't the Order get his attention?", first, they probably never imagined Makuta would attack Mata Nui like that themselves, but even if they did, getting his attention might not be easy. I have a portrayal of this situation throughout several chapters of my retelling (in chapters coming up soon), if you're interested.

 

And just to be clear, the part about Mata Nui largely not paying attention definitely IS canon. That is the answer to your second question here (and the Order plus Makuta DID handle that, so...).

 

The thing with the Toa Metru... I think that might be a bit hard. Out-of-universe, retroactive continuity might mess up the contradictory idea of Mata Nui not caring and his deceitful lying of who was destined to be the Toa Metru.

There's no contradiction. See fishers' post (quoted above).

 

Also you have to keep in mind that involved the stars destiny system, and that, it seems, was always operating subconsciously. Mata Nui probably did have conscious focus on that event (and if so, the timing makes it not a problem in the slightest), but it's also possible he didn't, and the destiny systems fed the right strategy to his subconscious which reported the lie in the stars. Non-lying projections happened all the time with no need for his conscious attention, so that's possible. (But I suspect conscious override was necessary to make the stars actually lie.)

 

And even if he had full control, all he did there was trick Makuta into tricking Lhikan into picking the right Toa for something. Periodically he may have had little interventions on the part of the Order, if necessary. It doesn't follow that because he intervened in something, he would have to also destroy the Makuta (or would be capable of stopping the virus). The Order was supposed to handle most things for him, and the Toa. And the Bohrok are needed for a surgical cleaning of the island on his face so that his blasting it with his own power wouldn't damage his facial systems -- how much more he would need to be cautious in stopping a virus in his most crucial systems! It may have simply been impossible. And killing or imprisoning (again) Makuta wouldn't do a thing for Mata Nui (at that time and as far as he was likely to guess).

 

A possible resolution is that Mata Nui's sleeping took a while to manifest, slowly shutting down.

Yes, it almost certainly did. It's a virus, after all. And he crashed on Aqua Magna, yet did not crash dead-on, implying gradually weakening consciousness (see also much later chapter of retelling for an interpretation of all the related details of this).

 

But even if it was fairly sudden, no contradiction to 'resolve.'

[Wazdakka]

No, I mean that maybe Mata Nui was offed by Teridax being sneaky over time and didn't notice until too late, but what doesn't make sense is that Terry hops into a giant robot body and starts busting fools left and right using his control of the robot's environment (a la Guardian, RIP) - but Mata Nui did not do anything of the sort when the League of Six Kingdoms was attacking - the league was in full open view of the world (unlike Teridax's scheming) and MN wasn't dazed/waning thanks to a virus as it happened... yet MN did not deign to destroy his foes. Only a last minute desperate intervention in the form of a surprise attack thanks to Takadox's intelligence saved him from his inaction.

[LouisTheFox]

Well originally the Makuta were made to keep peace in the Matoran Universe, not to mention that after the Matoran Civil War in Metru Nui there was Makuta stationed there to keep watch on the Matorans, since during that time there was no Toas yet made. 

 

 

So in other words, pretty much Teridax and his loyal companions probably had killed off the "good" Makuta. Which makes a lot sense why all Makuta are now just evil.

[Xeo]

Well originally the Makuta were made to keep peace in the Matoran Universe, not to mention that after the Matoran Civil War in Metru Nui there was Makuta stationed there to keep watch on the Matorans, since during that time there was no Toas yet made. 

 

 

So in other words, pretty much Teridax and his loyal companions probably had killed off the "good" Makuta. Which makes a lot sense why all Makuta are now just evil.

 

If I remember right all of the Makuta rejected the light, thus becoming evil. Unless you mean the 'good' Makuta as the ones who rejected Teridax's plan. In which case, that is correct.

[ALVIS]

Well originally the Makuta were made to keep peace in the Matoran Universe, not to mention that after the Matoran Civil War in Metru Nui there was Makuta stationed there to keep watch on the Matorans, since during that time there was no Toas yet made. 

 

 

So in other words, pretty much Teridax and his loyal companions probably had killed off the "good" Makuta. Which makes a lot sense why all Makuta are now just evil.

 

There were Toa around at that time; there were plenty of Toa. The Toa were among the first denizens of the Matoran Universe to be designed by the Great Beings, and, in fact, the first Toa (Helryx) was created before any of the Makuta.

 

However, the Brotherhood became the universe's law enforcement because the Toa were disorganized and generally dedicated to protecting small, localized regions from threats and disasters. They weren't about establishing and enforcing law and order, which is the role that was assumed by the Brotherhood of Makuta.

[bonesiii]

No, I mean that maybe Mata Nui was offed by Teridax being sneaky over time and didn't notice until too late, but what doesn't make sense is that Terry hops into a giant robot body and starts busting fools left and right using his control of the robot's environment (a la Guardian, RIP) - but Mata Nui did not do anything of the sort when the League of Six Kingdoms was attacking - the league was in full open view of the world (unlike Teridax's scheming) and MN wasn't dazed/waning thanks to a virus as it happened... yet MN did not deign to destroy his foes. Only a last minute desperate intervention in the form of a surprise attack thanks to Takadox's intelligence saved him from his inaction.

Again, Mata Nui wasn't paying attention to his insides by that time. You're comparing an active, murderous usurper's actions to a distracted, benevolent, and "hands-off" proper (but flawed) leader. Even if he knew about them, beings inside him were supposed to handle any such trouble. He wasn't paranoid. Teridax, though, had every reason to be, since he himself just took out a Great Spirit -- he knew it could be done.

 

Also, the League was never any real threat. They had no idea where Mata Nui was, nor that he was their universe. Their attack on Metru Nui would have been bad for its inhabitants, and thus indirectly, eventually, Mata Nui (same reason the Civil War would prove like that later), but he was never in any immediate danger.

 

And yes, a traitor among the Barraki led to their betrayal being known ahead of time -- that doesn't prove that had there been no traitor, Mata Nui was inches away from death or something.

 

Again, the point is there is no contradiction. Your argument should really be made to Mata Nui, who had that character flaw of not paying attention. As an argument that "Hey Mata Nui, it could have become really bad because you assumed the League would stay loyal to you and didn't pay attention", it works. But it's good for characters to have flaws in a story. Plus, the logic did seem sensible -- there were four major organizations (term is loose in the case of the first I'll list) that were on his side -- Toa, Order, Makuta, and League. It would actually make sense that if one of the four turned bad, Mata Nui would expect that the other three would take out the treasonous group.

 

He should have paid attention anyways, but you can see how the mistake happened psychologically.

[fishers64]

 

 

9) When Makuta started hurting Mata Nui long before putting him to sleep, why didn't Mata Nui contact the Great Beings or Toa?

 

 

9) Because once Makuta struck, it was too late to stop it, first off. And secondly, the Great Beings are no longer in this universe. Mata Nui contacted the OOMN, who made their preparations for what was to come.

 

 

 

10) We know that Mata Nui changed the stars to affect Makuta’s decision on influencing Lhikan when he chose the next Toa, so this would imply that Mata Nui was aware of Makuta’s scheming, so if that is true, why did he not act against Makuta and stop him while he still had a chance?

 

10) Already too late then. By the time of LOMN, the virus has already infected Mata Nui, he just hasn’t crashed yet ... the same way many computer viruses do not automatically crash your computer the second they infect it.

 

[NorikSigma]

@bonesii

 

Right, so Mata Nui had no time left to stop Teridax, could only order the OoMN to prepare, and the stars subconsciously realigned to influence which Toa Metru were to be created.

 

So we're all on the same page.

 

And it's good to see that Greg confirmed our hypothesis.

[bonesiii]

and the stars subconsciously realigned to influence which Toa Metru were to be created.

 

So we're all on the same page.

That's not quite what I said on that part:

 

Also you have to keep in mind that involved the stars destiny system, and that, it seems, was always operating subconsciously. Mata Nui probably did have conscious focus on that event (and if so, the timing makes it not a problem in the slightest), but it's also possible he didn't, and the destiny systems fed the right strategy to his subconscious which reported the lie in the stars. Non-lying projections happened all the time with no need for his conscious attention, so that's possible. (But I suspect conscious override was necessary to make the stars actually lie.)

My point was that completely subconscious control for this event is possible, but I think it's pretty clear it's not the case (as seen in the quotes fishers just showed ).

 

Otherwise yes.

 

Edit: Although, it wasn't a hypothesis (or theory); this has come up long ago. I just wasn't 100% sure I was remembering it right.

Edited August 13, 2014 by bonesiii

[toa kopaka4372]

It fits together very neatly. Mata Nui paid no attention to his universe for the vast majority of his life, and only realized something was wrong when he was infected. It was too late to stop it, but the events caused him to finally to actively do things to affect what happened within his body. He contacted the OoMN and changed the path of the stars before falling asleep, and when he awoke he made it his first priority to make up for his past mistakes by taking back his body from Teridax. 

[NorikSigma]

Oh, so conscious changing is definitely possible, but was most probably unconscious.

 

Ughh, the details in details I keep missing.

[bonesiii]

Oh, so conscious changing is definitely possible, but was most probably unconscious.

 

Ughh, the details in details I keep missing.

Other way around. The lie in the stars was probably conscious, fully intentional. That's clearly what the Greg quote implies. Am I clear now?

[NorikSigma]

Dang it I finally understand.

 

So the original question...

 

All the Makuta are killed right?