Kaita

[Matoro Lives]

Do you guys think the Toa Nuva could still become Kaita after receiving their adaptive armor? Could other teams of Toa become Kaita as well? Matoran, Bohrok-kal, and Rahkshi can all form Kaitas, why not other toa like the Inika/Mahri, or the Metru/Hordika?

[believe victims]

I don't think the Adaptive Armor would have any effect on the ability to become a Kaita, so yes, probably. It's confirmed all other teams could form Kaita; the only limit on Kaita is that a Toa Nuva cannot form a Kaita with a normal Toa, and vice versa. Any Toa can combine with any other two Toa, and any Toa Nuva can combine with any other Toa Nuva (which, interestingly, means there are 18 potential Toa Mata Kaita we never saw in-story).

[tomdroidser]

Simple answer: Yes, they can.

 

Simple answer with details: Yes, they can, but each individual Toa would likely perfer to operate as a team instead of a collective whole with a melded mind. The Inika/Mahri are still rookies and currently missing a member. The Metru perfered to be a team but individually independant and, as Hordika, couldn't do it to to their primal nature. Nuva are somewhat the same as the Metru at the point of receiving the Adaptive Armor.

 

-Tomdroidser

[The 1st Shadow]

The Nuva can, but the Kaita would not have access to the Armor's abilities. The fusion process shorts it out or something. But Akamai can no longer be formed due to Tahu being a Mata while Pohatu and Onua are Nuva.

 

And any three Toa can form a Kaita, so long as all three elements are different. We just haven't seen these fusions in story. Also, it takes a lot of concentration to do something like that. I did just have a thought, though. Kopaka and Gali learned of the Kaita through visions. I wonder if perhaps fusions like that are not common knowledge, a process known only to a few?

 

 

Hordika couldn't, as Tom said, their minds were a little out of whack from the Visorak venom in their systems.

 

[Banana Gunz]

*snip*

 

And any three Toa can form a Kaita, so long as all three elements are different. We just haven't seen these fusions in story. Also, it takes a lot of concentration to do something like that. I did just have a thought, though. Kopaka and Gali learned of the Kaita through visions. I wonder if perhaps fusions like that are not common knowledge, a process known only to a few?

 

*snip*

 

Hmmm... remember that the Mata had lost all their memories and didn't know anything, even the basics such as how masks and elemental powers worked, so it might be common knowledge to an extent, just not to them.

 

And Toa might only turn into Kaita only when they really care to/need to. I honestly don't know. After all, Kaita have their own personalities and thoughts, so it might be kind of an odd experience for a toa.

 

I wonder if the adaptive armor might interfere, but then again it is adaptive so it might adapt to their Kaita form instead. So in that case would it still work? That would be pretty interesting.

 

As stated they probably couldn't as hordika because the venom interfered with their minds and their unity. If a toa team doesn't have unity, I don't think they'd be able to create a Kaita, as it would be unstable and fall apart. I can't confirm this but it seems like a viable theory to me.

[Infrared]

I did just have a thought, though. Kopaka and Gali learned of the Kaita through visions. I wonder if perhaps fusions like that are not common knowledge, a process known only to a few?

It's certainly possible. Matau says he doesn't know what the Toa Kaita are in the MNOLG:

Some legends say that after the Golden Kanohi are found, there will come the Toa Kaita – but I do not know what this is.

This may be one of the non-canon details in the game though.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Infrared

[Sir Kohran]

It's worth noting that the concept of Toa combining to form Kaita was abandoned after 2003.

[fishers64]

1.Can the Toa Nuva merge into Toa Kaita Nuva while wearing their Adaptive Armor?

1a.If so, can the Toa Nuva Kaita’s armor shift to their surroundings?

 

1) Yes and yes

 

Also, even more intriguing, Makuta can form Kaita, but choose not to: 

 

1) Can Makuta form a Kaita?

 

1) Yes, but they never do

 

3)Can the Makuta make a Kaita? Or it’s just a toa special ability?

 

3) Yes, but they never would, as it involves giving up individual identity

 

6.) Can Makuta form Kaita’s and Nui’s?

A: Yes, but they don’t do it, because it means giving up your individual nature. 

 

I'm not sure if this refers to physical capability or knowledge of the fusion, but if they know, it may be common knowledge. (Makuta can form Nuis but Toa can't. Weird.)

 

Also, the Matoran on Metru Nui were able to form a Matoran Nui, so they had to know that merging was possible. 

Edited August 13, 2014 by fishers64

[believe victims]

Also, the Matoran on Metru Nui were able to form a Matoran Nui, so they had to know that merging was possible. 

 

 

It's been a while since I read Trial by Fire, the book that occurs in, but as I recall, Tehutti is the only one who knew it from a carving he'd seen in the archives. So, at least for the Matoran Nui, it was hardly common knowledge.

[fishers64]

 

Also, the Matoran on Metru Nui were able to form a Matoran Nui, so they had to know that merging was possible. 

 

 

It's been a while since I read Trial by Fire, the book that occurs in, but as I recall, Tehutti is the only one who knew it from a carving he'd seen in the archives. So, at least for the Matoran Nui, it was hardly common knowledge.

 

If that's the case, it might be that it was common knowledge when it was discovered (silly Matoran playing around with fusions) and then it was viewed as less desirable over the years, so it cycled out of memory.  

 

Or maybe the GBs put the carving in the Archives.

[Infrared]

 

1.Can the Toa Nuva merge into Toa Kaita Nuva while wearing their Adaptive Armor?

1a.If so, can the Toa Nuva Kaita’s armor shift to their surroundings?

 

1) Yes and yes

 

Also, even more intriguing, Makuta can form Kaita, but choose not to: 

 

1) Can Makuta form a Kaita?

 

1) Yes, but they never do

 

3)Can the Makuta make a Kaita? Or it’s just a toa special ability?

 

3) Yes, but they never would, as it involves giving up individual identity

 

6.) Can Makuta form Kaita’s and Nui’s?

A: Yes, but they don’t do it, because it means giving up your individual nature.

 

I'm not sure if this refers to physical capability or knowledge of the fusion, but if they know, it may be common knowledge. (Makuta can form Nuis but Toa can't. Weird.)

 

Also, the Matoran on Metru Nui were able to form a Matoran Nui, so they had to know that merging was possible.

 

 

Hmm... even if fusions are common knowledge, seeing as Matoran never make Kaita might it be possible Matau had never heard the term Kaita prior to learning about the fusions? Going off of BS01's walkthrough, the next mention of Kaita is when Takua goes to see Nuju in Chapter 7, but apparently he knows a lot about them:

 

The Toa will unite and find more power in the joining. They shall merge their skills, their knowledge, their wills to become Wisdom and Valor, named in prophecy Wairuha and Akamai. In these forms, they are the Toa Kaita. The Toa Kaita will, at last, confront the Makuta.

Then Vakama says this in Chapter 8:

 

Once inside, the Makuta will attempt to destroy them, and they will be beset by Manas: unimaginable horrors that guard his domain. They will face these fearsome challenges as the Toa Kaita, and there will be great battle.

Vakama may not know much since what he says is pretty vague (or he may just be withholding info he doesn't think Takua needs to know) but Nuju is a lot more forthcoming/knows a lot more. So maybe Nuju discerned additional info from the prophecies and didn't bother to tell anyone until Takua came along? Or maybe Matau just didn't pay attention during the Turaga meetings?

 

Edit: Sorry, I didn't see the two posts above this. That Tehutti point is interesting because the McToran made a Matoran Nui and they seemed to know about fusions already, but maybe the Turaga told the Matoran since they saw the Great Disk Matoran make one back on Metru Nui. In that case, maybe the Turaga only knew about Nui and not Kaita since Matoran Kaita were never formed, and then when they heard the term Toa Kaita they didn't know what it meant until Nuju figured it out....

Edited August 13, 2014 by Infrared

[Akavakaku]

I can see why Makuta don't do Kaita, since one of them could just take over the fusion!

[fishers64]

I can see why Makuta don't do Kaita, since one of them could just take over the fusion!

Um, since Kaita-ing involves giving up your individual nature, there would be no separate wills to take control. If someone tried to regain themselves the fusion would simply dissolve. 

[Archon~]

This makes me sad we never saw a Makuta Kaita... I think an AU with a miserix, teridax, and icarax kaita would be most interesting.

[ALVIS]

This makes me sad we never saw a Makuta Kaita... I think an AU with a miserix, teridax, and icarax kaita would be most interesting.

 

And by "interesting" you mean "completely dominated by the unstoppable force of three of the most powerful Makuta to ever live".

 

Thank goodness our Miserix, Teridax, and Icarax would never have had the common ground to join together, let alone the force of unity.

[Archon~]

 

 

This makes me sad we never saw a Makuta Kaita... I think an AU with a miserix, teridax, and icarax kaita would be most interesting.

And by "interesting" you mean "completely dominated by the unstoppable force of three of the most powerful Makuta to ever live".

 

Thank goodness our Miserix, Teridax, and Icarax would never have had the common ground to join together, let alone the force of unity.

Essentially, yes.

 

I think the Kaita of the beings I mentioned above would be very interesting. If it were formed while the Makuta still served Mata Nui, it would be a very efficient lawkeeper and guardian, but if formed post-Miserix, it would lead to quite a sadistic monster.

 

Funny how it goes both ways.

[fishers64]

TBH I think it might be more common in the Melding Dimension.

 

Although I can't imagine Teridax willingly joining a kaita, even if he was good. 

[Banana Gunz]

True true. Part of why the Makuta don't form Kaita is probably also why they ended up going sour: their lack of unity. Notice how all the "evil" or barbaric species like the Skakdi and makuta are missing one or more parts of the Three Virtues.

 

I wonder if any of the other species in the MU can make Kaita, such as Vortixx and Skakdi. I know that there's the Piraka morph Vezon made with the Staff of Fusion (or some jazz like that) but I'm not sure if that counts as a Kaita, since it only utilizes two piraka and was a forced fusion. I wonder if forming Kaita might require sp,e certain amount of mental discipline like kanohi powers do, though this might not be the case, considering both matoran and Skakdi can wear (though not operate) kanohi but only matoran can for kaita and nui.

[bonesiii]

I know that there's the Piraka morph Vezon made with the Staff of Fusion (or some jazz like that) but I'm not sure if that counts as a Kaita, since it only utilizes two piraka and was a forced fusion.

"Kaita" literally means a fusion of three in Bionicle, so no. But that doesn't really begin to answer your question. Just sayin'.

 

(And the Staff of Fusion can presumably fuse anything, so isn't really evidence one way or another.)

 

As to the question, the BS01 Fusions page says:

 

In the Matoran Universe, beings of the same species can willingly forgo their individuality and combine their bodies and minds. The amount of beings that enter this fusion can be any more than two, but is usually three or six. The Makuta species could have formed fusions, but were not willing to surrender their identities, and never did so. Most other species are also unwilling to submit to the process of losing their identities.

However, I'm not sure if this is meant to be a canonically backed up confirmation that other species can, or is just an assumption. The last line does imply a Greg quote or something probably is behind it, but I don't have any handy at moment.

[fishers64]

This is getting off-topic (ish), but here's the list: 
 
 

4) Could the Fohrok form Kaita?
4) No
 
1c) Can Toa Ignika form a Kaita?
1c) No

 
I've already shown that Makuta can.
 

8b. Could Ackar, Kiina, and Gresh (the Glatorian with elemental power) form a Kaita?
8c. Could a "normal" Glatorian form a Kaita?
 
8b-8c) No
 
6. Were all of the bio-mechanical creatures within the Great Spirit capable of Kaita-ing? 
6a. If not, where all the sentient ones capable of it (anything above Rahi level)?
6b. If not, were only elemental beings capable of it? (Skakdi, Matoran, etc.)
 
6) No
6a) No
6b) No
 
1. Can Skakdi make Kaita and what about Vortixx can they make one ?
1) Not to my knowledge.
 
1. Can anything besides Matoran, Toa, Turaga, Bohrok, Bohrok Va, Bohrok-Kal, and Rahkshi make Kaitas or Nuis?  
1) It’s possible

 
 
For Vortixx and Skakdi, it's an open question still, but these answers make it seem unlikely. I also think Skakdi might have the same problem as Makuta. Some Vortixx might be docile enough to consider it I suppose.

Edited August 15, 2014 by fishers64