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Bionicle should start off in 2015, from Yesterday's Quest


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Well in the story of Yesterday's Quest, taking place after reformation of Spherus Magna, we have Toa Chira, Toa Orde, and Toa Varia along with Glatorian Gelu of the Ice Tribe setting out on an quest to find the Great Beings. 

 

They eventually then arrive in newly jungle of what was once the moon of Bota Magna and they encounter tribe of Vorox. And one of them named Kabura knows how to turn off a Toa's power.

 

This being said, Orde the Toa of Prionics had a vision of a Great Being having new plans for newly reformed Spherus Magna. And that being said they have to go out and stop the Great Being from achieving his goal. That being said I think we should have Bionicle starting off with Glatorian and Toa teaming up to stop the Great Being from doing so. 

 

Also to come to think of it, I remember that Sahmud had a vision of the future where he saw New Atero located in Bota Magna region of the newly formed Spherus Magna. He said that Kiina, Gali, Tahu, and Ackar among many Matoran, Toa and Agori will be living a new life there. With that said, I would also like this to also happen for the new Bionicle series if it does come back in 2015.

 

Anyway, what do you guys think would this be better than having Bionicle rebooted? And do you think what else should happen as well, if so please say so. Thanks. 


I also forgot to mention that Velika the Great Being who is disguised as a Po-Matoran had murdered Tren Krom and Karzahni. Meaning that if Pohatu and Kopaka get back to Spherus Magna they will have to find Velika and stop him before he will kill someone else. I can even predict he might murder Toa Tuyet because she was exiled to the Pit while back for murdering three Matoran. That means she going to be targeted by Velika along with the rest of the surviving Dark Hunters. 

 

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To be honest, I disagree. I find that a reboot above all would actually be the most feasible. It's kind of odd having to explain two different species as your main characters to new consumers. And which one would come out as the sets? Would it be some Glatorian and some Toa? One wave of each each year? I mean toa are more interesting characters with more powers and diversity. For the sake of congruity that would already be a problem with bringing it back exactly where it left off.

 

Plus, the quest that they're going on originally is the find the Great Beings/learn their secrets. You would have to have a whole lot of canon to explain about that, such as who Mata-Nui is and why he wanted them to find them.

 

And I'd much rather start off Bionicle with characters I already know from the original six elements. 

 

A reboot would give LEGO and the story writers a lot more freedom than dropping right back in where the story ended, believe it or not. They already have a bunch of canon from the old Bionicle that they can go back to and pull ideas from and keep old fans satisfied, yet since it would be a reboot it would have enough freedom to make decisions and go in different directions, which would keep the story interesting to old fans again. Personally, I find that it would be kind of silly/boring if LEGO just used the exact same story as before, because that is just laziness and we would all already know how it all ends. Having a reboot would be able to mix things up so you don't know what's going to happen and to bring in fresh and new content to keep fans excited and waiting to see what happens next.

 

 

A reboot just feels like a far superior idea to me than continuing the story. Of course if it is a reboot, I will miss a lot of old things Bionicle had, but I would still be interested in a new story and there'll probably be easter eggs for the old fans anyway.

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Well in the story of Yesterday's Quest, taking place after reformation of Spherus Magna, we have Toa Chira, Toa Orde, and Toa Varia along with Glatorian Gelu of the Ice Tribe setting out on an quest to find the Great Beings. 

 

They eventually then arrive in newly jungle of what was once the moon of Bota Magna and they encounter tribe of Vorox. And one of them named Kabura knows how to turn off a Toa's power.

 

This being said, Orde the Toa of Prionics had a vision of a Great Being having new plans for newly reformed Spherus Magna. And that being said they have to go out and stop the Great Being from achieving his goal. That being said I think we should have Bionicle starting off with Glatorian and Toa teaming up to stop the Great Being from doing so. 

 

Also to come to think of it, I remember that Sahmud had a vision of the future where he saw New Atero located in Bota Magna region of the newly formed Spherus Magna. He said that Kiina, Gali, Tahu, and Ackar among many Matoran, Toa and Agori will be living a new life there. With that said, I would also like this to also happen for the new Bionicle series if it does come back in 2015.

 

Anyway, what do you guys think would this be better than having Bionicle rebooted? And do you think what else should happen as well, if so please say so. Thanks. 

I also forgot to mention that Velika the Great Being who is disguised as a Po-Matoran had murdered Tren Krom and Karzahni. Meaning that if Pohatu and Kopaka get back to Spherus Magna they will have to find Velika and stop him before he will kill someone else. I can even predict he might murder Toa Tuyet because she was exiled to the Pit while back for murdering three Matoran. That means she going to be targeted by Velika along with the rest of the surviving Dark Hunters. 

Sonic sucks. Bionicle rules.

I think Bionicle should start off by showing 5 years after Teridax was defeated

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I vote for a continuation, but I don't think TYQ has a strong enough story premise to carry an entire toyline through its would-be new first year. The old serials I felt were more explorational stories, with an aim - find the Great Beings. The reason Mata Nui wanted them found was to tell them that they won. 

 

That's pretty flimsy, seeing as the GBs already know that they won, if Angonce is anything to go by. What the Toa needed was reason to find the Great Beings, and The Powers that Be provides one - stop Velika and Marendar. Unfortunately, introducing those two characters necessitates introducing tons of backstory. It's too complicated a premise for a newcoming 8-12 year old audience to grasp. A return, in my mind, must be based on something else. On what, I honestly have no idea. 

 

I disagree that the Agori/Toa/Matoran/Turaga/Glatorian is too complicated to introduce. I feel that only introducing a few characters at a time is the best policy anyway - we can start with a small story with just one Toa and one Agori - or one Glatorian and one Matoran, or any combination, and work out from there. I think having a wide variety of characters expands storyline potential, and while some should remain in the background, especially for the first year, I don't see why having them around is a problem. Ninjago has the ninja, normal people characters, the sensei, and the Serpentine, and it survives. Too many characters isn't an issue if it isn't made into one. 

 

As another example, Bionicle 2001 introduced characters one-by-one, then brought them together for an adventure. There's no reason a continuation plot couldn't do that.  

 

Lastly, I think a reboot is an extreme solution to the problem of too much backstory. I think if you do a reboot, the point of that is to tell an entirely different story, and if you want to do that, why call it Bionicle? More to the point, there are ways to avoid including too much backstory in a continuation, like a time jump, or just reintroducing the characters in a simple context, which SM now can be. I think one of the best ways would be to go with entirely new characters - no backstory need apply. So rebooting the story feels like fixing a few stuck keys on your keyboard by smashing the thing with a giant sledgehammer - sure, the keys are unstuck, but now the whole thing barely works. 

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I have a feeling that Lego might retcon the incomplete serials, or perhaps let Greg finish them off, and then skip a period of time to make the old MU storyline largely irrelevant. I doubt they'll finish off the Red Star arc, and all of that stuff, although they might still let Velika blow up the Great Being's fortress to kill off Tuyet, Artakha, and all of the other wildcard characters who were inside, just to tie up the loose ends they represented. 

 

I think they'll start an indeterminate amount of time in the future, with th united groups of Matoran and Agori, toa and Glatorian and everyone else thriving peacefully in new Atero, only to be threatened by various evils, probably the Barraki, TSO's Dark Hunter's, Stronius' Skrall remnant, or perhaps even the Baterra. I'm sort of hoping they keep Marendar and Velika as part of the story as well, but only time will tell for sure.

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Regardless, the chances of new BIONICLE starting from the serials are slim to none. Time skip is the most likely option if it isn't a hard reboot. If the unfinished serials are never finished, though, I hope they aren't retconned (then again, if the Red Star stuff was retconned I doubt I'd be very upset). 

 

 

 

 So rebooting the story feels like fixing a few stuck keys on your keyboard by smashing the thing with a giant sledgehammer - sure, the keys are unstuck, but now the whole thing barely works. 

I really like this analogy. I think I will now imprint this in my memory and refer to it when discussing this with others. I'll give you the credit for coming up with it, of course.  :P

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Well in the story of Yesterday's Quest, taking place after reformation of Spherus Magna, we have Toa Chira, Toa Orde, and Toa Varia along with Glatorian Gelu of the Ice Tribe setting out on an quest to find the Great Beings. 

 

They eventually then arrive in newly jungle of what was once the moon of Bota Magna and they encounter tribe of Vorox. And one of them named Kabura knows how to turn off a Toa's power.

 

This being said, Orde the Toa of Prionics had a vision of a Great Being having new plans for newly reformed Spherus Magna. And that being said they have to go out and stop the Great Being from achieving his goal. That being said I think we should have Bionicle starting off with Glatorian and Toa teaming up to stop the Great Being from doing so. 

 

Also to come to think of it, I remember that Sahmud had a vision of the future where he saw New Atero located in Bota Magna region of the newly formed Spherus Magna. He said that Kiina, Gali, Tahu, and Ackar among many Matoran, Toa and Agori will be living a new life there. With that said, I would also like this to also happen for the new Bionicle series if it does come back in 2015.

 

Anyway, what do you guys think would this be better than having Bionicle rebooted? And do you think what else should happen as well, if so please say so. Thanks. 

I also forgot to mention that Velika the Great Being who is disguised as a Po-Matoran had murdered Tren Krom and Karzahni. Meaning that if Pohatu and Kopaka get back to Spherus Magna they will have to find Velika and stop him before he will kill someone else. I can even predict he might murder Toa Tuyet because she was exiled to the Pit while back for murdering three Matoran. That means she going to be targeted by Velika along with the rest of the surviving Dark Hunters. 

Sonic sucks. Bionicle rules.

I think Bionicle should start off by showing 5 years after Teridax was defeated

 

Was that need to say that about the Sonic franchise? I mean I am a Sonic fan too. And I do think Bionicle is awesome as well. But serious I don't think that was needed to say. LOL

I do get what you are all saying for a reboot. I would kind of like a reboot, but then again when Bionicle first came out in 2001 I was like only 3 or 4 years old. And my mom got me Toa Gali, Toa Pohatu, Toa Onua, and Toa Lewa. But until I had turn 8 years old in she then gave them to me. 

 

 

So I would actually like a reboot too. Be honest I never got any Toa Nuva, I have gotten the chest armor and shoulder plate armor of the Nuva from different sets in later years. But I never got a Toa Nuva mask. 

 

"If one wishes to know the truth, then one must find the truth." -Gandhi

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While I would like to see the serials finished, there's no chance of the new story picking up exactly where the old left off. The entire reason that Bionicle was cancelled was because the story got too complicated for newcomers to get into.

 

At best there's going to be a large timeskip and a completely unrelated story, and maybe the serials will get finished during that time in order to tie up loose ends.

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Like I've said before, we don't have to settle for just picking up where we left off or starting things over -- we can get what Greg himself once suggested as a likely option; a time-jump into the future.

 

Those loose plot threads you mentioned can still be tied up that way but new fans wouldn't have to know them. Solves the problems of both options. It's sort of a "reboot", just not rehashing old story (which wouldn't likely work, as we already know the secret behind that mystery and they already poured so much effort into that story and brought it to a close), but also not just continuing the plot threads of what was really just meant to continue the story as an extended epilogue (which would probably be too confusing to new fans). Future Spherus Magna, with Tahu, etc., gets threatened by a new mysterious enemy. That way we get some nostalgia but we also all get to go along for the ride on a new mystery.

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I'd have to agree with bonesiii. Maybe the old story (where it left off) could be explained in sub plots, like in story serials. If the story just started where it left off, new fans would be confused. But by no means do the writers have to start from scratch. They could use a new generation of Toa/Glatorian, while the older generation may not even appear in the main storyline.

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Time skip to the future, with TSO, Barraki, Velika, Marendar and the Baterra being the main villains across a several year period, taking turns to threaten the city of New Atero. No need to complicate things with too much backstory, but at least we get to keep our favourite old villains around. 

Embers - a new Bionicle Epic - Coming 2024 

Class Is Out - A Farewell To Corpus Rahkshi - Chapters/Review

BZPRPG Characters - Minnorak, Kain, T'harrak, Savis, Vazaria, Lash

BZPRPG Mercenary Group - The Outsiders - Description - History - Base

Ghosts Of Bara Magna - Ash Tribe - Precipere - Kehla, Somok, Skrall, Gayle, Avinus, Zha'ar

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*snip*

 

I disagree that the Agori/Toa/Matoran/Turaga/Glatorian is too complicated to introduce. I feel that only introducing a few characters at a time is the best policy anyway - we can start with a small story with just one Toa and one Agori - or one Glatorian and one Matoran, or any combination, and work out from there. I think having a wide variety of characters expands storyline potential, and while some should remain in the background, especially for the first year, I don't see why having them around is a problem. Ninjago has the ninja, normal people characters, the sensei, and the Serpentine, and it survives. Too many characters isn't an issue if it isn't made into one. 

 

*snip*

 

Lastly, I think a reboot is an extreme solution to the problem of too much backstory. I think if you do a reboot, the point of that is to tell an entirely different story, and if you want to do that, why call it Bionicle? More to the point, there are ways to avoid including too much backstory in a continuation, like a time jump, or just reintroducing the characters in a simple context, which SM now can be. I think one of the best ways would be to go with entirely new characters - no backstory need apply. So rebooting the story feels like fixing a few stuck keys on your keyboard by smashing the thing with a giant sledgehammer - sure, the keys are unstuck, but now the whole thing barely works. 

 

Your example is invalid, the ninja, sensei, normal civilians, and serpentine are all different and there for different reasons. In the case of bringing in glatoran/toa and matoran/agori, you have two types of "ninjas" and two types of "normal civilians" that are all on the same side. What is the point? It just clutters up the story and confuses people on who to follow particularly as the heroes and villagers.

 

A reboot does not simply make up a completely original story absolutely different from everything in the theme it's rebooting. It takes elements, such as old characters and locations, and attempts to change things and go in different directions that it didn't go in before. You essentially have a different theme but it shares core ideas and characters with the original one, so your definition of a reboot is also invalid. Introducing entirely new characters is what Bionicle originally did in 2001, and back then they had no back story, and they honestly still don't have that much, so why go with entirely new characters that you have no idea whether or not people will like them or have a connection with when you already have great and liked characters that people would rather see.

 

And rebooting the theme isn't simply a way of fixing problems that could occur in other ways of re-introducing it, it's to tell the story differently with different ideas, as I've said before. You're not "smashing the whole key-board" to fix a few broken keys. You're taking the keys that worked best from the old key board, and putting them on a newer, and different one. You seem to get the idea that the only reason people want a reboot is because the old theme was really complicated or had problems. That's not true in the least.

 

Doing a time jump solves close to nothing. It pushes aside the past, but people will want to know why things are the way they are. How will you explain how toa came into being? You still have to go back and tell the whole story of the shattering and the creation of Mata-Nui, and if you want to tell that for back-story, you basically have to explain everything else. Time consists of past, present, and future. Neglect one, and everything goes out of wack. The Bara-Magna story-line worked as a sort of reboot because it was all new, new species, new planet, new characters, new history. Going into the future still requires acknowledging the past, to very large extents.

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We still don't know how are Matoran made. :P

 

And even if they wanted to know how everything came to be, that's why BS01 exists.

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We still don't know how are Matoran made. :P

 

And even if they wanted to know how everything came to be, that's why BS01 exists.

 

People shouldn't have to go searching through ten years' worth of information on BS01 to understand the main plot of a story.

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People shouldn't have to watch The Last Airbender to find out who in the world is this 'Toph' or 'Chief Sokka' or 'Lord Zukko' or what was this war that keeps being mentioned in The Legend of Korra. They WORSE didn't have to read through obscure comics to find out how the United Nations (or something like that) was formed.

 

But should they want to know, go ahead. If you don't know, then thats OK too.

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And rebooting the theme isn't simply a way of fixing problems that could occur in other ways of re-introducing it, it's to tell the story differently with different ideas, as I've said before. You're not "smashing the whole key-board" to fix a few broken keys. You're taking the keys that worked best from the old key board, and putting them on a newer, and different one.

Well how are you defining "reboot"? The main key that the old story was based around, and that worked best, was its founding secret. That mystery has now been solved. We can't put that genie back in the bottle. Instead, we can have a new bottle, with new story. :)

 

Doing a time jump solves close to nothing.

Really? Okay, that's a new one. Basically, see my above post. A time jump solves pretty much all the major problems with the other options and has no major problems of its own (of course, everything can have problems relating to execution, though). The only really good argument against it I've seen is one person's post in, I think it was, my poll that if a new story ends up being awful, a reboot makes it easier to just ignore it. But when the reboot would suffer from innate flaws as a result of being one, for this kind of story, that really ends up being more of an argument for never bringing back Bionicle. I think LEGO has a good chance of making a good new story, and lotsa people ignore new stories they don't like in other franchises anyways.

 

What other problems wouldn't a time jump solve?

 

It pushes aside the past, but people will want to know why things are the way they are. How will you explain how toa came into being?

"There is a large family of alien species on Spherus Magna, and some of them created artificial lifeforms long ago."

 

If fans are curious, the reasons why can be investigated on their own time, or if relevant it can be weaved into future plot. I do agree having both Agori related lifeforms and Toa related on one planet is one of the larger of the downsides of a "continuation", but that explanation is so simple, and lots of scifi has incorporated it regularly, it should be no trouble at all, really. And if they really think it's a problem, they can have the story begin in a place that only has one or the other and later expand to gradually introduce new fans to the larger world (just like Bionicle did at the start).

 

You still have to go back and tell the whole story of the shattering and the creation of Mata-Nui

No you absolutely do not, as I've pointed out before. It could be optionally woven in as a "mythology" (not literally taken as mere myth, but as world enrichment in the background, I mean), but new fans don't need to know it to have new story set on Spherus Magna. That was the beauty of how Bionicle ended -- it opened up great potential for a simple, second entry point for fans (after time off). People saying you do have to know it are just assuming that.

 

Keep in mind all of that is actually more relevant to 2001 story, and yet we didn't know it then either. But the problems associated with it were solved. It's a little like demanding a story taking place in 2014 have to begin by telling the whole story of WWII.

 

But if you did tell a story taking place in 1943, you actually might need to tell about it!

 

Besides, it's better not to spoil it at all IMO so fans can go back and read it at their leisure, not necessarily knowing all the big questions about how it ends (like what became of Makuta).

 

Time consists of past, present, and future. Neglect one, and everything goes out of wack. The Bara-Magna story-line worked as a sort of reboot because it was all new, new species, new planet, new characters, new history. Going into the future still requires acknowledging the past, to very large extents.

Why? This seems like circular reasoning -- asserting that a time jump requires this in order to argue against the time jump. But it doesn't need that, anymore than that in 2001 we needed to know about the Shattering.

 

But 2001 plot does have a major weakness, which is that the big secrets behind it are already out there, so it would be too easy for new fans to hear spoilers. You can take other things in new directions (like I do in my fanfics), but for an actual LEGO-produced story, it has major issues. With a time jump, almost all of that can be avoided. Admittedly, they would basically need to know it's Spherus Magna, but how it got that way doesn't need to be known, and "there's a planet" is easier to take for granted than 2001 plot.

 

(But again, depends on how you're defining "reboot"; maybe you mean something different than that.)

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And rebooting the theme isn't simply a way of fixing problems that could occur in other ways of re-introducing it, it's to tell the story differently with different ideas, as I've said before. You're not "smashing the whole key-board" to fix a few broken keys. You're taking the keys that worked best from the old key board, and putting them on a newer, and different one.

Well how are you defining "reboot"? The main key that the old story was based around, and that worked best, was its founding secret. That mystery has now been solved. We can't put that genie back in the bottle. Instead, we can have a new bottle, with new story. :)

 

Doing a time jump solves close to nothing.

Really? Okay, that's a new one. Basically, see my above post. A time jump solves pretty much all the major problems with the other options and has no major problems of its own (of course, everything can have problems relating to execution, though). The only really good argument against it I've seen is one person's post in, I think it was, my poll that if a new story ends up being awful, a reboot makes it easier to just ignore it. But when the reboot would suffer from innate flaws as a result of being one, for this kind of story, that really ends up being more of an argument for never bringing back Bionicle. I think LEGO has a good chance of making a good new story, and lotsa people ignore new stories they don't like in other franchises anyways.

 

What other problems wouldn't a time jump solve?

 

It pushes aside the past, but people will want to know why things are the way they are. How will you explain how toa came into being?

"There is a large family of alien species on Spherus Magna, and some of them created artificial lifeforms long ago."

 

If fans are curious, the reasons why can be investigated on their own time, or if relevant it can be weaved into future plot. I do agree having both Agori related lifeforms and Toa related on one planet is one of the larger of the downsides of a "continuation", but that explanation is so simple, and lots of scifi has incorporated it regularly, it should be no trouble at all, really. And if they really think it's a problem, they can have the story begin in a place that only has one or the other and later expand to gradually introduce new fans to the larger world (just like Bionicle did at the start).

 

You still have to go back and tell the whole story of the shattering and the creation of Mata-Nui

No you absolutely do not, as I've pointed out before. It could be optionally woven in as a "mythology" (not literally taken as mere myth, but as world enrichment in the background, I mean), but new fans don't need to know it to have new story set on Spherus Magna. That was the beauty of how Bionicle ended -- it opened up great potential for a simple, second entry point for fans (after time off). People saying you do have to know it are just assuming that.

 

Keep in mind all of that is actually more relevant to 2001 story, and yet we didn't know it then either. But the problems associated with it were solved. It's a little like demanding a story taking place in 2014 have to begin by telling the whole story of WWII.

 

But if you did tell a story taking place in 1943, you actually might need to tell about it!

 

Besides, it's better not to spoil it at all IMO so fans can go back and read it at their leisure, not necessarily knowing all the big questions about how it ends (like what became of Makuta).

 

Time consists of past, present, and future. Neglect one, and everything goes out of wack. The Bara-Magna story-line worked as a sort of reboot because it was all new, new species, new planet, new characters, new history. Going into the future still requires acknowledging the past, to very large extents.

Why? This seems like circular reasoning -- asserting that a time jump requires this in order to argue against the time jump. But it doesn't need that, anymore than that in 2001 we needed to know about the Shattering.

 

But 2001 plot does have a major weakness, which is that the big secrets behind it are already out there, so it would be too easy for new fans to hear spoilers. You can take other things in new directions (like I do in my fanfics), but for an actual LEGO-produced story, it has major issues. With a time jump, almost all of that can be avoided. Admittedly, they would basically need to know it's Spherus Magna, but how it got that way doesn't need to be known, and "there's a planet" is easier to take for granted than 2001 plot.

 

(But again, depends on how you're defining "reboot"; maybe you mean something different than that.)

 

 

I actually really am defining "reboot" differently. To me, a reboot shouldn't just be exactly what its predecessor was. That's just plain ridiculous, I mean c'mon. I imagine a reboot taking old ideas, like characters and settings but then changing things around, making it old, but especially new at the same time. If they reboot it, there is no way in heck that I would want to see the same story arc. Saying I want a reboot doesn't mean I want to see exactly the same story. What if there was a different story arc, like Mata-Nui not being a giant robot, or something else to keep the story fresh and mysterious. You can have a "new bottle" and a "new story" with a reboot. A reboot doesn't mean a perfect replica or exact play back of what it was before. To me, a reboot shouldn't be an author retelling the story of the Ginger Bread Man with different words, it should take characters that had once existed and put them in different situations. A fan should not be able to go on BS01 and spoil what will happen years later in the rebooted Bionicle.

 

I admit, Spherus Magna is a very open setting with a lot of opportunity for story, but the problem is it's almost too open. What mysteries will you find there? Sure, you can find some. But it's not like the island of Mata-Nui where you have no idea where anything came from. You already have a back story and answers to all the mysteries in a continuation. That was what the ending of Bionicle was meant to do, solve all the mysteries.

 

Who will be the next main centralized villain? Bionicle was always a story about light triumphing over darkness, and heroes standing up to protect the innocent against a dark threat, and reawaken Mata-Nui. Who do you think could be the main villain? The Barraki? Tuyet? The Gold Reptile thing? Those are sub-plots, not main villains. Trying to introduce one would work, but to have him measure up and be an even bigger threat than Makuta was would be hard. Makuta was at one point a giant robot that could destroy planets. Going much lower than that will make your villain be in the shadow of the threat that once was, and going higher would just be unrealistic.

Sure you don't have to tell the story of the old Bionicle for the new one, but like I said, if you don't show new fans that Bionicle has a history, and they never bother to look through ten years of canon, then the characters they are left with are Hero Factory characters. Characters with no history, and no explanations. Characters that are there, because they are there, and for little more. This won't be the case for old fans who know their history, but for new people who don't want to have to go back to 10 years of canon to enjoy a new story, it will.

 

And what you said about 2001 is invalid, time is linear and you can't see the future, but it's there. You can remember the past because it has already happening, and forgetting it/playing it off is like trying to pretend it never happened.

 

Like I said, with a reboot there is no way in the world they should go with the same story arc. Perhaps my definition of reboot is different apparently from other usual definitions, but it is still a good option for Bionicles return, or at least I think so.

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bones covered a lot of it, but I still have some points. 

Your example is invalid, the ninja, sensei, normal civilians, and serpentine are all different and there for different reasons. In the case of bringing in glatoran/toa and matoran/agori, you have two types of "ninjas" and two types of "normal civilians" that are all on the same side. What is the point? It just clutters up the story and confuses people on who to follow particularly as the heroes and villagers.

That's not true. The Toa have more powers and such than the Glatorian. Even Agori have a great deal of differences from Matoran. It's a lot like how Dareth the Brown Ninja compares to the main cast of characters.
 
And a variety of characters brings a wider variety of people into your story, and increases the options for confilc It's not a hinderance, but rather, an asset that few stories have. 

so why go with entirely new characters that you have no idea whether or not people will like them or have a connection with when you already have great and liked characters that people would rather see.

Because new characters have no established backstory. That means that the backstory can be teased as a mystery through your new story without referencing existing canon (I actually wrote a story like that :P), or you can ignore it, as you see fit. It actually solves the "Hero Factory characters" problem if you make their backstory a mystery. :)
 
Also, the possibilities aren't mutually exclusive - all of the beloved characters are on SM right now, so bringing back characters that the audience liked before is possible. But why would kids of this new generation like the same characters as we did? Is there a possibility that we would like new characters? Tried and true isn't a matter of the writing business so much as other things, and making Bionicle new again is a big part of what a return must do. A new character would do that. 
 

And rebooting the theme isn't simply a way of fixing problems that could occur in other ways of re-introducing it, it's to tell the story differently with different ideas, as I've said before.

I'm not sure I follow. How does this not make it a completely new story?

Going off the post you made in response to bones, if Mata Nui isn't a giant robot than what is it? A giant keyboard with the M and V keys stuck in the up position? The giant robot feels like the most logical solution - anything else feels contrived or absurd. 

You're not "smashing the whole key-board" to fix a few broken keys. You're taking the keys that worked best from the old key board, and putting them on a newer, and different one.

No, you're taking an old keyboard, changing a few keys around, and expecting it to work just as good as the old one. (It would be easier to buy whole new board...)
 

You seem to get the idea that the only reason people want a reboot is because the old theme was really complicated or had problems. That's not true in the least.

Er, not really. Most of the arguments I've heard have claimed a reboot as a solution to excessive backstory, and I was responding to the idea. It wasn't directed at you specifically - you happen to have a different opinion. 

 

The other reason I've heard is nostalgia for the simplicity and mystery of 2001. Not necessarily wrong. You seem to see it as a greater storyline opportunity. It's a legitimate other viewpoint, I guess. :shrugs:

 

Lastly, I don't believe that a reboot (as you see it, at least) and a continuation are completely mutually exclusive. Both can be in the same story - and there are multiple mechanisms to pull it off - some complicated, some simple. (Although I personally doubt Lego would write a story like that, but you never know.)  

Edited by fishers64
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I actually really am defining "reboot" differently. To me, a reboot shouldn't just be exactly what its predecessor was.

Well, nobody would think it was, re: "exactly." I mean, are we talking what is often called "full reboot" -- retell the mystery we already had -- or do you mean something like a brand new world? (Like how Bara Magna was a different planet entirely.)

 

But *thinks of checking this* in your post in my poll, you did say: "Starting at 2001 feels the best, though there's some interesting opportunity for starting earlier." So I'm guessing you still mean that.

 

I mean, I guess it's possible LEGO could do what I'm doing in my retelling -- have the giant robot not be a secret at all, and make something completely different be the mystery, but I still think it would be too weird. A time-jump solves this by having the story revolve around something different, so the giant doesn't need to be mentioned at all, so fans can still go back to old story and be surprised the way we were if they want. (Because they're dismantling the robot currently. But this would be a problem if we just start up where we left off, as it hasn't yet been dismantled.)

 

I imagine a reboot taking old ideas, like characters and settings but then changing things around, making it old, but especially new at the same time.

That works great for something like Hawaii Five-0, where there's no great mystery central to the context of why it's that kind of story. I don't see how it could work for going back and re-doing familiar Bionicle story in a new way. Especially 2001 (!?) -- that setting is a result of the giant robot, etc.

 

What if there was a different story arc, like Mata-Nui not being a giant robot

Er... What would be the point of that? See, now you're saying you don't want old story -- easiest way to get that is new story in the future! That way there's no reason why Mata Nui has to be a giant robot! He's a spirit in a mask!

 

But going back to a past, with a setting that exists because he's a giant robot, or anything else really, and changing that founding context just seems bizarre. I think that goes into "jumping the shark" territory. No offense. :P

 

Now fanfics that had him being something different can be great. Takuta-Nui wrote an awesome one once about that, for example. But that's because as fans we didn't know why things were what they were at the time. That isn't the same as LEGO itself doing it. That kind of thing belongs in fanfics. It would be like doing spiderman, but this time saying he just has a lot of tech like batman that imitates being a spider. It's an awesome idea for a fanfic, not a good idea for an official story.

 

I admit, Spherus Magna is a very open setting with a lot of opportunity for story, but the problem is it's almost too open. What mysteries will you find there?

We didn't know what mysteries we would find in 2001 either. And if, to you, taking even the founding idea of those years of Bionicle off the table is possible, doesn't your idea actually have this... well, I'll call it a problem since you did -- more than a time-jump? (Really, why must it be a problem?)

 

Sure, you can find some. But it's not like the island of Mata-Nui where you have no idea where anything came from.

The thing is, that only worked once. Now if we go back to Mata-Nui, everybody's going to know where it all came from.

 

Unless you wanna go that "alternate past" route, but then you still have the problem that a lot of fans both old and new are going to assume they know, and not like that. New because a secret like the giant robot is hard to contain among kids who talk to other kids, esp. online (and more are online now than ever). Then you'd have a lot of kids arguing about who's right, if it's different, etc. That's just not practical.

 

A reboot by that definition is possible (by the way, it does sound like you DID mean reboot as I meant it), but no matter how you do it, it's going to have huge issues that a time-jump 'continuation' wouldn't have.

 

You already have a back story and answers to all the mysteries in a continuation. That was what the ending of Bionicle was meant to do, solve all the mysteries.

? No, because you can have new mysteries.

 

Notice the option that's winning in my poll on that question: "A new one; let LEGO surprise me" (by 80%).

 

And you just said yourself you would want new mysteries in a reboot (apparently). Isn't it far easier to have new mysteries in the future than rehashing the past?

 

Of course, no matter what the new mystery, it's always possible we won't like it as much as the old. But that's the risk you take if you bring it back.

 

Who will be the next main centralized villain?

Why do you ask?

 

(Nobody post potentially leaked content. :P)

 

Whoever LEGO feels is up to the demands of the role. :)

 

Who do you think could be the main villain? The Barraki?

No no no. While re-using old characters for a new main villain is certainly possible (top candidate right now is probably Velika, but I kind of hope it'll be somebody entirely new), as I said before:

 

FTR: Personally I suspect Velika, Marendar, etc. would not be involved, except maybe in side plot or if Greg ever does finish the current serials as a side project. I get why people suggest that kind of thing, as it's what we know now, but basing theories on a future-set return on what we know isn't really reliable, since new story would probably be new to all of us. I think that would all be distant past at the point of a return plot.

In 1999, could you guess who the main villain of 2001 would be? Of course not.

 

Trying to introduce one would work, but to have him measure up... would be hard.

As would be rehashing Makuta... Again, this is a universal risk of a return. That needs to be understood right off the bat -- it can't be used as an argument against any one part, since it applies to all forms of a return and every single part.

 

and be an even bigger threat than Makuta was

It is merely an assumption that a continuing story must have new villains always be a bigger threat than old. Wouldn't really be that hard in Makuta's case, but that's beside the point. Even if technically the new villain were to not ever succeed in reaching that scale, the same problem would exist with an "alternate Makuta", so this again amounts to an argument against taking the risk of a return at all. And if the new villain did surpass Makuta in every way, it could be seen as bad that Makuta gets overshadowed. IMO the solution to this is to remember it's not a contest -- it's about having new story, and quality story. :)

 

Makuta was at one point a giant robot that could destroy planets. Going much lower than that will make your villain be in the shadow of the threat that once was, and going higher would just be unrealistic.

Problem with this reasoning is that it would restrict future story to ever-increasing threats and become too predictable. Also, why apply it only to Bionicle? This is the kind of thing I think about often as a storyteller, aspiring writer. When one story has a threat destroy a planet, does that mean no more stories can be told about a local murderer? Of course not. That doesn't apply across multiple franchises, it shouldn't apply within one franchise.

 

That said, don't write off the unknown as "unrealistic" -- that's fallacious. In the original Star Trek series, we didn't imagine the Borg. But they were awesome and drove more plot (successfully) than anything that came before in terms of antagonists. Nor did we imagine Q, etc.

 

Sure you don't have to tell the story of the old Bionicle for the new one, but like I said, if you don't show new fans that Bionicle has a history

Big difference between letting them know there IS a history and dragging them through a long and boring summary of its details and events.

 

they never bother to look through ten years of canon

Then that's their loss -- and their choice. But if we get a rehashed story, we don't even get the option to find out what happens next in that vast and fascinating potential.

 

then the characters they are left with are Hero Factory characters.

I don't see what this has to do with the rest of your post.

 

It hasn't come up yet, but something that should be a warning to everybody eager about this return (if it's real) is that the possibility of Hero Factory characters IS there. (Style, I mean.) But this is again a universal risk that has nothing to do with where or when the story is set. That's about execution. (Let's just hope the people behind HF don't get involved. :P)

 

Characters with no history, and no explanations.

No, they have a history, and they'll have a lot of history we won't know if it's a time-jump to the future. :) Especially new characters. And for old ones (prior to 2010 plot), that history will be a giant open door inviting new fans in for a rockin' adventure that's already made!

 

And what you said about 2001 is invalid, time is linear and you can't see the future, but it's there.

Pardon if it's just that I'm tired, but I have no idea what you mean here.

 

Like I said, with a reboot there is no way in the world they should go with the same story arc.

Then you're wishing for two highly contradictory things. If you tell LEGO you want 2001 all over again, you're getting the same basic arc, virtually guaranteed. Or at least so similar it will never feel as fresh and new as it did the first time around.

 

 

 

The giant robot feels like the most logical solution - anything else feels contrived or absurd.

Exactly. To use another analogy, take an episode from a crime drama, reproduce all the evidence, and then say it's a totally different murder than in the story you watched before. While it might make for an interesting experimental episode in something like Five-0 (where it would bear no relevance to Five-0 the Return As A Whole), it's not a good idea for Bionicle, where the mystery is the story arc.

Edited by bonesiii
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The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive)Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants

My Bionicle Fanfiction  (Google Drive folder, eventually planned to have PDFs of all of it)

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