Velika's Bara Magna Agents

[bonesiii]

I beg to differ-- Velika really mainly wanted rule of the MU inhabitants. Besides, no one even live on Aqua Magna except pit prisoners, who are beyond rule, so why would Velika care about them? If anything, I'd think Velika would want Mata Nui to succeed only to get rid of Makuta.

No, he wanted Spherus Magna reformed and wanted to rule there. The whole reason he wanted Makuta stopped was so he wouldn't prevent Mata Nui's reforming mission. Therefore it can't be that he wanted Mata Nui to succeed only to get rid of Makuta; that would be contradictory.

 

As for ruling only over MU inhabitants, I suppose Greg hasn't clearly disproved that (he could rule the ones on SM), but I'm pretty sure he wants to rule everybody. The whole "iron-fisted rule to prevent bad events" thing wouldn't work so great if he purposefully left a bunch of people outside his rule, right?

Edited August 28, 2014 by bonesiii

[skratchR]

I was under the impression that Velika wanted to annihilate the MU population, seeing them as tools who already had done their work. At least, the GB's saw them as mere software. I thought Velika wanted to annihilate them and then take over the planet?

[Irrie]

I was under the impression that Velika wanted to annihilate the MU population, seeing them as tools who already had done their work. At least, the GB's saw them as mere software. I thought Velika wanted to annihilate them and then take over the planet?

Well, not all of the inhabitants. He did mention that the Toa Mata were to be left alive because they served another purpose. 

[bonesiii]

He did mention that the Toa Mata were to be left alive because they served another purpose.

Actually:

 

The Toa Mata were too important to have their lives sacrificed needlessly. Oh, they would die, eventually, but it would be at a time of his choosing.

But he wasn't killing all MU beings, just the ones he deemed wildcards and threats to his plan, apparently.

[Irrie]

 

He did mention that the Toa Mata were to be left alive because they served another purpose.

Actually:

 

The Toa Mata were too important to have their lives sacrificed needlessly. Oh, they would die, eventually, but it would be at a time of his choosing.

But he wasn't killing all MU beings, just the ones he deemed wildcards and threats to his plan, apparently.

 

He's going to need a new name for that, "The Plan" is already taken.

[Chro]

What if Teridax's plan was really just a part of Velika's plan all along

 

 

* mindblow *

Please note that I realize that this idea makes no sense in-story

[fishers64]

What if Teridax's plan was really just a part of Velika's plan all along

 

 

* mindblow *

Please note that I realize that this idea makes no sense in-story

If the GBs actually wanted Makuta to take over so Mata Nui would find the prototype, it could make sense. (Not a mindblow, I've known it for years. )

 

Also: off topic...

[Banana Gunz]

I was under the impression that Velika wanted to annihilate the MU population, seeing them as tools who already had done their work. At least, the GB's saw them as mere software. I thought Velika wanted to annihilate them and then take over the planet?

 

I wouldn't suspect so, Velika has lived among the matoran for many, many years now. He would probably empathize them, and would see that they have become sapient.

 

I've always imagined the Great Beings having the agori in mind when making the matoran, and that the matoran were suppost to be better versions of them, following virtues and fighting and dying with unity for their great spirit, whereas the agori have always generally been divided and lost care and faith in the Great Beings, but this isn't official.

[Wazdakka]

 

I beg to differ-- Velika really mainly wanted rule of the MU inhabitants. Besides, no one even live on Aqua Magna except pit prisoners, who are beyond rule, so why would Velika care about them? If anything, I'd think Velika would want Mata Nui to succeed only to get rid of Makuta.

No, he wanted Spherus Magna reformed and wanted to rule there. The whole reason he wanted Makuta stopped was so he wouldn't prevent Mata Nui's reforming mission. Therefore it can't be that he wanted Mata Nui to succeed only to get rid of Makuta; that would be contradictory.

 

As for ruling only over MU inhabitants, I suppose Greg hasn't clearly disproved that (he could rule the ones on SM), but I'm pretty sure he wants to rule everybody. The whole "iron-fisted rule to prevent bad events" thing wouldn't work so great if he purposefully left a bunch of people outside his rule, right?

 

 

Wait, this is kind of a separate question, but directly related to this topic: How do we know Velika wanted to get the reformation of SM? Even if he did, couldn't he just off MN/Teridax (Great Being), but why didn't he?

[bonesiii]

couldn't he just off MN/Teridax (Great Being), but why didn't he?

He probably could have, but remember Teridax was also destined to help with the reforming (and unintentionally did). It may not have been possible with Teridax dead, as he was the only other being besides Mata Nui designed for the task, and it required two people to work. Also, Velika seems to have wanted to stay in secret no matter what until the reforming was done (though exactly why, I'm not sure).

[ALVIS]

Greg's answered your questions, bonesiii. The agents do know with whom they are communicating, but they haven't necessarily been told of his plans.

[Nato G]

The agents know they're reporting to a GB, but they don't necessarily know what that GB truly has planned. For all we know, Velika could have told them all something completely different in order to further manipulate them. My guess is that the agents probably don't know who each other are. I don't have any evidence for this, except for how my own brain works. If I was an evil mastermind secretly manipulating people so that I could take over the planet, I'd tell them all something different and keep them in the dark about each other and my true intentions, so that there's a far smaller chance of word getting out or one of them leaking intel.

 

They can't surrender information that they don't know, can they?

[UnderscoreChronix]

Keep in mind, it never said they were ALL characters we know from 2009. It could be only one of them, and the others people we've never heard of before.

I think it's Vastus. 

Of course we already know Kabrua is in contact with Velika, as he has a device which can block Toa power.

[Willess12]

Something I thought of for Ackar today: maybe he's too old?  By Velika's reasoning:  "He might die soon.  I need someone... middle-aged.  Not someone who's going to die very soon, but not someone young and naïve like... that Rookie Jungle warrior who's name I've forgotten.  I know!  I'll go with a 'teenager': Kiina!"  Okay, that last part was a joke.

[Nato G]

Something I thought of for Ackar today: maybe he's too old?  By Velika's reasoning:  "He might die soon.  I need someone... middle-aged.  Not someone who's going to die very soon, but not someone young and naïve like... that Rookie Jungle warrior who's name I've forgotten.  I know!  I'll go with a 'teenager': Kiina!"  Okay, that last part was a joke.

 

Yeah, I think Greg confirmed somewhere that Kiina and Ackar would both be around the same age in human years. Don't quote me on that, though. I'd have to double-check the references on the BS01 pages. 

 

EDIT: Can't find it on BS01. I must have read it somewhere on the Greg Chat on LMB, and I don't feel like reading through 400-and-something pages of questions to find Greg's one response. 

Edited September 1, 2014 by NatoGreavesy

[Quisoves Potoo]

Something I thought of for Ackar today: maybe he's too old?  By Velika's reasoning:  "He might die soon.  I need someone... middle-aged.  Not someone who's going to die very soon, but not someone young and naïve like... that Rookie Jungle warrior who's name I've forgotten.  I know!  I'll go with a 'teenager': Kiina!"  Okay, that last part was a joke.

The problem is that Ackar wasn't about to die 100,000 years back, and he hasn't died yet. If Velika deemed him an especially useful agent, I doubt that he would have decided against obtaining millennia-worth of intelligence from him. Yes, he was more likely to die than other 2009 characters, but as long as Velika had could replace him with a younger agent (either recruited beforehand or later, by Ackar, at Velika's behest,) his age should not have been a problem.

[bonesiii]

Yeah, I think Greg confirmed somewhere that Kiina and Ackar would both be around the same age in human years. Don't quote me on that, though. I'd have to double-check the references on the BS01 pages. 

 

EDIT: Can't find it on BS01. I must have read it somewhere on the Greg Chat on LMB, and I don't feel like reading through 400-and-something pages of questions to find Greg's one response.

A quote about that was just posted in this topic's firstpost:

 

http://www.bzpower.com/board/topic/14415-agoriglatorian-lifespans/

 

I doubt either of them would be considered too old. Only Raanu on that list seems like a candidate for that. (And not sure it really matters. As long as they're alive and can talk, they can send him info right?)

[Chro]

As long as they're alive and can talk, they can send him info right?

I'd just say "as long as they're alive"... they wouldn't need to talk to communicate information telepathically, right?

[fishers64]

 

As long as they're alive and can talk, they can send him info right?

I'd just say "as long as they're alive"... they wouldn't need to talk to communicate information telepathically, right?

 

It was confirmed that the spies communicate using tech, not telepathy.

 

2. In order to keep him updated on events, Velika's contacts would need some way to communicate with him. Did Velika supply them with communication devices, or did he have some sort of telepathic ability?

 

2) It was done using tech

 

Source

[ToaKapura1234]

So they need to alive and able to type.

[fishers64]

So they need to alive and able to type.

Or speak. The GBs could have audio recording/transmitting equipment. 

[Willess12]

Or use the Bara Magna equivalent of Morse Code (assuming there is one).

[Makuta Luroka]

Or use the Bara Magna equivalent of Morse Code (assuming there is one).

Probably use Matoran.

[fishers64]

Typing and Morse Code require similar faculties. Technically, Morse can be done out if you're blind, but I doubt Velika would rely on a blind person for information. (In any case, none of the suspects fit that description.)

[Nato G]

Telepathic tech? Perhaps Velika is using some kind of implant that can project thoughts? I'm trying to think of what kind of tech Velika would have had access to, but my main problem is that his body was rebuilt by Karzahni. Unless old Karz knew that Velika was a GB, the tech had to be an implant in a part of Velika's body that wasn't changed, or it's a separate item altogether. 

 

Personally, I'm still opting towards implants, because they're easier to hide.

[bonesiii]

It really doesn't matter how the tech works, just that they send him information. That's all I meant by "talk" before, BTW.

 

But I don't see why they'd go for something as fancy as telepathy when speech or text would suffice. Possible, but seems unlikely.

[Nato G]

I'm just throwing ideas around right now. If it was a device where the user needed to type or something like that, the agent would have to keep it hidden where none of the other Glatorian and Agori could find it, and would also have to keep it functioning. We know the GB's gave implants to a lot of Glatorian and Agori, so an implant would be less noticeable and less likely to arouse suspicion.  

 

Implants would make slightly more sense, especially considering what Velika has been through in the MU. It would have been difficult for him to keep a hold of a separate device. And since his body was modified and rebuilt by Karzahni, the implant would have had to have been somewhere in a part of his body that wasn't changed. My guess is that he would have integrated some kind of receiver into his actual brain, so the info he got would be transmitted directly into his mind. 

 

These are just ideas mostly based on conjecture, feel free to shoot them down with actual evidence.

[Chro]

Telepathic tech communication could be useful if Velika wanted to remain unidentified. I think it's unlikely that he'd worry about anybody on SM recognizing his voice, but you never know, I guess.

[fishers64]

Nah. I'd think that he would hide his communication tech far far away from his Matoran life, perhaps with his old buddy Tren Krom. After all, the Matoran Velika wouldn't need information about Spherus Magna - it's only when he gets back to SM that the stuff becomes relevant. I could imagine him making an excuse to go see TK once every thousand years or so to collect the info, or maybe he just dumped it all into his brain using tech like the Mata Nui "volcano" in Journey's End.  

Telepathic tech communication could be useful if Velika wanted to remain unidentified. I think it's unlikely that he'd worry about anybody on SM recognizing his voice, but you never know, I guess.

I'd think that Velika's Matoran voice would be different from his GB voice...

[bonesiii]

Implants would make slightly more sense, especially considering what Velika has been through in the MU. It would have been difficult for him to keep a hold of a separate device.

Like I said before, it seems quite possible Velika can just tap into the sensors of the giant robot (perhaps a system he's re-coded to be off-limits to Mata Nui's conscious awareness) from anywhere, like how Lifer did with Vezon's mask. Velika is surrounded by protodermis, which to a Great Being could all be an interface system with the giant robot, for all we know. I doubt it's a matter of an implant, but of knowledge. Remember what Lifer said about how he could do that:

 

My people created the first Masks of Power. We certainly know how to shut one off.

And keep in mind he's speaking from across dimensions. Distances seem to make no difference for this sort of thing, and remember also that the mask has no implants or "tech" other than the molecules it's made out of. So it would seem that those are enough.

 

So, I doubt Velika needs an implant that Karzahni might take away. (Of course, even if he does, he could just make a replacement later.)

 

But however it works, it could simply call up a visual screen that displays text that only he could see, like a hologram. Another of the famous abilities of GBs is to make Matoran unable to see them. He could also certainly make them unable to see the interface if it works like that. I do suspect something like telepathy could be involved in his side of the interface (but not likely the spies' due to Greg's answer), but it isn't necessary, given things we've seen before about GBs.

[Wazdakka]

Who is Lifer?

[Rider Of Spiders]

Who is Lifer?

I'd say he's the GB who was locked in a fortress after touching the Ignika, which gave him the ability (or curse) to turn everything around him subconsciously alive.

[bonesiii]

Who is Lifer?

I'd say he's the GB who was locked in a fortress after touching the Ignika, which gave him the ability (or curse) to turn everything around him subconsciously alive.

And his imprisonment is a "life sentence."

[Boidoh]

I see what you did there.

[Wazdakka]

Oh, okay, thanks guys! That makes sense.