Worldbuilding changes you hope they will make?

[The Undertaken]

I suppose that folks just don't want another giant robot surprise. Which I can kinda get, it's been done and won't have the same impact if redone.

 

For those fundamentally opposed to the original MU being a giant robot, I don't know. I thought it was rather brilliantly executed, subtly making it more and more obvious from year one (Onu-koro miners found a solid layer of protodermis under the island, believed to be under the entire island,had properties similar to ussal crab shells, and had that room covered by the sundial with the floating Hau and the word "       " floating over-top).

Seriously, looking back that was brilliant foreshadowing, 'cause after the reveal it's obvious that the layer of protodermis was Mata Nui's face!

[TheCleanser]

hey guys, i think you mean. no more giant robots under islands.

 

after all, giant robots that, like, i dunno, fight angels or something? those would be refreshing to see!

"angels"-Where? What? When? Is this time to use the hat maymay? I don't ündérschtänd!

"giant robots...that fight"-the only excusable ones would be exo toas.

 

I don't even think I had any reaction to this comment.

Like, I cut myself so hard on that unseen edge that my brain lost the blood to have proper empatethical functions.

[Rahkshi Lalonde]

 

hey guys, i think you mean. no more giant robots under islands.

 

after all, giant robots that, like, i dunno, fight angels or something? those would be refreshing to see!

"angels"-Where? What? When? Is this time to use the hat maymay? I don't ündérschtänd!

"giant robots...that fight"-the only excusable ones would be exo toas.

 

I don't even think I had any reaction to this comment.

Like, I cut myself so hard on that unseen edge that my brain lost the blood to have proper empatethical functions.

 

 

it was an anime joke, for an anime i haven't even seen, oops. :u

[TheCleanser]

Dunno if this could be a thing, but how about a toa team turned evil and who failed their mission, living on a dark and deserted island?

 

 

 

Sound grim and dark grimdark enough to me.

[Regitnui]

That's unlikely, considering Toa/Masters are heroes for 10-year-olds. Grimdark only really appeals to emo teenagers who think their lives are like so depressing and horrible. Children's series, like what BIONICLE is marketed as, only really get as grim as the Ignition arcs. It could work as a fanfic, but it won't be official by any means.

[TheCleanser]

That's unlikely, considering Toa/Masters are heroes for 10-year-olds. Grimdark only really appeals to emo teenagers who think their lives are like so depressing and horrible. Children's series, like what BIONICLE is marketed as, only really get as grim as the Ignition arcs. It could work as a fanfic, but it won't be official by any means.

 

Grimdark can work very well, it's not only for edgy teenagers.

Well-made grimdark gives more depth to a setting, the heroes aren't omni-potent and you know they can fail, and that makes success and fixing your former mistakes VERY satisfying.

 

Take for example Warhammer Fantasy(I do agree 40k is too grimderp4me). There's a giant egyptian skeleton necromancer that devoured a god or two, took control of the afterlife and now seeks to defeat the four overlords of .

That's not for edgy teenagers, that's AWESOME. Bionicle should do some of this epic Bad guy vs Bad guy stuff too.

 

Oh well, I'm talking about grimdark in a fandom (probably) oversaturated with MLP and noblebright weeaboo. This like the evil land of mordor/<insert horrible place here> for the likes of you.

[Regitnui]

I'm sorry? I enjoy Grimdark in its place, but BIONICLE is not the place for Grey and Black Morality. Bionicle is, as much as it has adult fans (including myself), is a children's series, and so will refelct its primary audience. Evil/'insane' Toa isn't exactly fitting with the series' tone. The closes thing we got in Gen 1 was Lesovikk. I doubt Gen2 would include anything worse than 'tragic hero' for Toa character archetypes.

[Tangaroa]

I suppose that folks just don't want another giant robot surprise. Which I can kinda get, it's been done and won't have the same impact if redone.

 

For those fundamentally opposed to the original MU being a giant robot, I don't know. I thought it was rather brilliantly executed, subtly making it more and more obvious from year one (Onu-koro miners found a solid layer of protodermis under the island, believed to be under the entire island,had properties similar to ussal crab shells, and had that room covered by the sundial with the floating Hau and the word "       " floating over-top).

Seriously, looking back that was brilliant foreshadowing, 'cause after the reveal it's obvious that the layer of protodermis was Mata Nui's face!

 

Here, here! And you can see in the original story bible that there was a drawing of mata nuis face under the island.

[The Meta Knight]

 

I suppose that folks just don't want another giant robot surprise. Which I can kinda get, it's been done and won't have the same impact if redone.

 

For those fundamentally opposed to the original MU being a giant robot, I don't know. I thought it was rather brilliantly executed, subtly making it more and more obvious from year one (Onu-koro miners found a solid layer of protodermis under the island, believed to be under the entire island,had properties similar to ussal crab shells, and had that room covered by the sundial with the floating Hau and the word "       " floating over-top).

Seriously, looking back that was brilliant foreshadowing, 'cause after the reveal it's obvious that the layer of protodermis was Mata Nui's face!

 

Here, here! And you can see in the original story bible that there was a drawing of mata nuis face under the island.

 

Mah Gawd. 

 

 

The one thing I'd like to see here that wasn't in gen1 that hasn't already been done is a big spaceship thing the Toa fly around the Island in called the Toa-Mobile.           

 

And of course no more giant robots.

[Toa of Gallifrey]

Tahu: Quick, to the Toa-Mobile!

*da ra ra ra ra plays while the Hau flashes in and out of the screen*

[graywolf89]

I'm sorry? I enjoy Grimdark in its place, but BIONICLE is not the place for Grey and Black Morality. Bionicle is, as much as it has adult fans (including myself), is a children's series, and so will refelct its primary audience. Evil/'insane' Toa isn't exactly fitting with the series' tone. The closes thing we got in Gen 1 was Lesovikk. I doubt Gen2 would include anything worse than 'tragic hero' for Toa character archetypes.

I think Transformers, particularly the Prime and Beast Wars series, is a toyline that can pull off Grey morality really well. However, it all has more to do with sympathetic villains and anti-heroes who have good motives for acting the way they do, rather than heroes who are cruel for the sake of it (like Tuyet). There were plenty of opportunities in G1 Bionicle where Grey morailty either could have been be utilized, or further developed. These instances include the Skrall having their empire destroyed by Baterra, Brutaka's brief turn to the dark side, and Makutas Krika and Miserix opposing Teridax. I think that G2 could capitalize on having things be less clear cut, because if pulled off well it could really add greater depth to the story. Overall, Bionicle might not be the place for Black morality, but it IS the place for some Grey morality, because its maturity in comparison to the other Lego lines to me, is one of the big selling points. 

Edited October 29, 2014 by graywolf89

[The Undertaken]

Well, at least one Mordorish place and/or a villain vs villain conflict somewhere in the mix would be cool.

The MOUP is of course a valuable mcguffin, the sort that anyone with a bad name wanting respect, to take over/destroy the world, or just wanting to mess with folks would want, while the heroes would naturally try to prevent any group from taking it.

[Padaster]

I wish they'd find a better name for the MOUP. I dunno, how about the Mask of Reality?

[The Undertaken]

Maybe, maybe, but on the other hand all the other masks have been named for what they are/do:

Mask of Control and Mask of Creation, though their details are fuzzy at the moment, can be determined to be masks that grant the wearer great control over something and great creative potential respectively. To my knowledge the elemental masks are named for their respective elements. As the Mask of Ultimate Power holds all the elemental powers that Makuta or Ekimou could put into a mask, it holds that it would grant the wearer ultimate, final, total and complete control over the elements.

 

But yeah, a cooler name would be nice, just not sure how it would fit into a "naming scheme"(if it can yet be called such) wherein the name of the mask reflects what it does in relatively straightforward terms.

[The Meta Knight]

I honestly don't really think the MOUP is such a good idea... What made all the legendary masks so cool was that each one was unique and more powerful than the others in it's own way. For example, let's say ten years from now, the Mask of Creation, Control, and Ultimate Power are all found and hidden/kept safe/destroyed (that last one is for the MOUP), and they need to introduce a new legendary mask for the next story arc. But whatever they come up with is just redundant and pointless compared to the MOUP, because of the nature of the Mask, being the supposed most powerful mask in existance. (One Mask to rule them all, One Mask to find them, One Mask to bring them all, and in the Darkness bind them.   ) Then the new mask they came up with will seem signifcantly less important. This is my one fear for gen 2. Think about it. When the story arc in gen 1 moved to the Mask of Life, the Mask, as epic as they made it seem, didn't downgrade the awesomeness of the Mask of Time, nor did it seem less powerful than the MOT. They were both different from each other and unique. But the MOUP just makes all the other super-cool legendary masks we've been through look like ants in terms of power.

[Lyichir]

I honestly don't really think the MOUP is such a good idea... What made all the legendary masks so cool was that each one was unique and more powerful than the others in it's own way. For example, let's say ten years from now, the Mask of Creation, Control, and Ultimate Power are all found and hidden/kept safe/destroyed (that last one is for the MOUP), and they need to introduce a new legendary mask for the next story arc. But whatever they come up with is just redundant and pointless compared to the MOUP, because of the nature of the Mask, being the supposed most powerful mask in existance. (One Mask to rule them all, One Mask to find them, One Mask to bring them all, and in the Darkness bind them.   ) Then the new mask they came up with will seem signifcantly less important. This is my one fear for gen 2. Think about it. When the story arc in gen 1 moved to the Mask of Life, the Mask, as epic as they made it seem, didn't downgrade the awesomeness of the Mask of Time, nor did it seem less powerful than the MOT. They were both different from each other and unique. But the MOUP just makes all the other super-cool legendary masks we've been through look like ants in terms of power.

The Mask of Ultimate Power is not by any stretch the limit of what sorts of legendary masks can be introduced. From the story video we've seen, it sounds like it only has the mane main six elemental powers, and of course if not even Makuta could control it, it's not a mask that can be used by the heroes in any practical situation.

 

There's plenty of other potential powers that can be used in the theme's future which would not be rendered obsolete by the MoUP—the Mask of Time is an obvious one, but there are plenty of other interesting powers which not even the original Bionicle theme explored.

Edited October 31, 2014 by Lyichir

[Seaborgium]

I'd like to see more exploration of the Matoran culture. An exploration of their traditions and arts would be nice.

 

Also, have more Matoran heroes.

[Akavakaku]

Bionicle has actually had lots of really interesting morality systems. 2001 was black and white, but we got a more gray and white conflict in the Bohrok saga, with the Swarm's alien motives. 2004 was black and white at its core, but had several intriguing gray characters like Krahka, the Karzahni and the EP Entity. Then it went straight-up gray and black with 2005, a really, really grimdark year in retrospect. The beginning of 2006 was similarly dark, but then became increasingly bright and morally stark until the end of the saga. So I think the future Bionicle line might turn out similarly: a kind of day-evening-midnight-morning-day parabolic thematic arc.

[The Hip Historian Iaredios]

I agree with most points stated here. In fact, I am storing many of these ideas for my Epic. Thanks fellas.

[Regitnui]

Bionicle has actually had lots of really interesting morality systems. 2001 was black and white, but we got a more gray and white conflict in the Bohrok saga, with the Swarm's alien motives. 2004 was black and white at its core, but had several intriguing gray characters like Krahka, the Karzahni and the EP Entity. Then it went straight-up gray and black with 2005, a really, really grimdark year in retrospect. The beginning of 2006 was similarly dark, but then became increasingly bright and morally stark until the end of the saga. So I think the future Bionicle line might turn out similarly: a kind of day-evening-midnight-morning-day parabolic thematic arc.

Yet overall, Bionicle never approached the grimdark level that even the brightest parts of Warhammer do. Bionicle is a children's line, so we're likely to see themes and storylines that marketing think children can handle.

 

Ignition was dark, but still child-friendly. As much as we are adults and teenagers, we aren't the target audience here. We're the Easter Egg hunters. I expect a good story, but a child-friendly story. Heaven knows adult can still appreciate a good children's story, like the Hobbit.

[TheCleanser]

 

Bionicle has actually had lots of really interesting morality systems. 2001 was black and white, but we got a more gray and white conflict in the Bohrok saga, with the Swarm's alien motives. 2004 was black and white at its core, but had several intriguing gray characters like Krahka, the Karzahni and the EP Entity. Then it went straight-up gray and black with 2005, a really, really grimdark year in retrospect. The beginning of 2006 was similarly dark, but then became increasingly bright and morally stark until the end of the saga. So I think the future Bionicle line might turn out similarly: a kind of day-evening-midnight-morning-day parabolic thematic arc.

Yet overall, Bionicle never approached the grimdark level that even the brightest parts of Warhammer do. Bionicle is a children's line, so we're likely to see themes and storylines that marketing think children can handle.

 

Ignition was dark, but still child-friendly. As much as we are adults and teenagers, we aren't the target audience here. We're the Easter Egg hunters. I expect a good story, but a child-friendly story. Heaven knows adult can still appreciate a good children's story, like the Hobbit.

 

Yeah, because Saving a king from death and thus creating a friendship that is still lasting after 2500 years is a level of grimdark bionicle never reached. Sure.

 

 

Grimdark doesn't mean life is absolutely horrible all day, every day. It might have had a bright past.

[The Meta Knight]

I don't expect gen 2 to be as grimdark as gen 1, but I wouldn't really mind it, either. I suppose the only places I'd like to see it get grimdark is toward the climax of each story arc, usually when the enemy is about to be confronted. That's a strategy that works pretty well. That would be best for next-gen Bionicle in my opinion.

[Regitnui]

At no point in the story of Bionicle did we ever get grimdark. Things getting darker towards the end of a story is called drama. Bionicle never dropped down to Grimdark. There was always a sense of hope, a clear distinction between who's right and who's wrong, and never the sense of heroes having to be villains for the greater good.

 

Grimdark is pretty much defined by hopelessness and apathy, fallen empires and the supernatural being outright malevolent or merely aggressively not caring. The Tau in warhammer 40K are the good guys, and they're a bunch of imperialistic colonials. The good guys in Bionicle are clean-living, honorable warriors who serve the people.

 

Bionicle =\= grimdark. It didn't even get as dark as Harry Potter.

[Prime Axiom]

1) Romance not being a taboo. 

 

2) Equal gender ratios amongst tribes

 

3) Toa of Light being a female. 

 

4) Elemental powers being fleshed out with subpowers as the heroes advance in power. Ei. Lightning being a subset of fire. 

 

5) Storyline gets deeper as the years go by. The storyline should grow up with the new audiences. 

[TheCleanser]

2) Equal gender ratios amongst tribes

 

3) Toa of Light being a female. 

 

I don't understand why people are so obsessed with there being more females.

 

In what way would the story change? Why does it matter, if it's targeted to boys? How would the story change if the toa were all female?(From a gender-roleless story, because I'm pretty sure that a full female toa team would be full of stereotypes.)

 

If Takanuva was a female, would anything even change? There's no different biology, no love(from what I heard), no nothing, it's all in their heads.

 

You people must grow up. Changing a few genders around in a toy line isn't going to solve any problems or discriminations.

[The Undertaken]

Perhaps, perhaps, but then again having more female characters throughout various media, to the point where "action girl" is no longer a trope worthy of note due to commonality, that would make a change for the better. That and with gender restrictions no longer confirmed one way or another it opens up more potential. Better group dynamics and such.

 

And now to prevent this from becoming another discussion on gender and such:

 

4) Elemental powers being fleshed out with subpowers as the heroes advance in power. Ei. Lightning being a subset of fire. 

 

5) Storyline gets deeper as the years go by. The storyline should grow up with the new audiences. 

Yes definitely to 4, and for 5, have it get deep, totally! But keep it from locking new people from the continuity maybe? Perhaps some discussion as to how to prevent that, get a best of both worlds kind of deal?

[Lyichir]

 

2) Equal gender ratios amongst tribes

 

3) Toa of Light being a female.

 

I don't understand why people are so obsessed with there being more females.

 

In what way would the story change? Why does it matter, if it's targeted to boys? How would the story change if the toa were all female?(From a gender-roleless story, because I'm pretty sure that a full female toa team would be full of stereotypes.)

 

If Takanuva was a female, would anything even change? There's no different biology, no love(from what I heard), no nothing, it's all in their heads.

 

You people must grow up. Changing a few genders around in a toy line isn't going to solve any problems or discriminations.

 

Firstly: It has a BIG effect because it makes it easier for the female characters to represent a diverse range of personalities. That's not just something that helps create female fans—it's IMPORTANT that male fans also recognize that not all girls represent the peaceful Ga-Matoran archetype. That's much harder to do when a single Toa of Water is the only female main character.

 

Secondly, the restriction of female characters to specific elements is creatively stifling. Say a female fan wants to create a Toa as a character to represent themself. They're limited to three or four elements, only ONE of which is one of the six "main" elements that most "elemental" parts are designed to represent. And if fire or ice is her favorite element? Too bad! Their OC would not only be non-canon (like all OCs), but in fact they would DIRECTLY CONTRADICT the rules of the canon. This is why many fans, myself included, are less concerned with changing the genders of existing characters and more concerned with just opening up the POTENTIAL for gender diversity—both in future sets as well as in fan MOCs and stories. After all, Lego is by definition a creative toy—why restrict things like the powers of female characters if it limits the potential for new and unique characters?

 

The lack of love, by the way, is another thing people are clamoring to be removed, just because it was already an artificial restriction—we were told to take at face value that Bionicle characters were capable of the full range of human emotion, EXCEPT for genuine love and affection, and the only excuse was "well, they don't reproduce!" Human love can and does happen outside of reproduction so decanonizing romance on that flimsy pretense seemed to just be an attempt to discourage shippers.

 

Finally, I think you're the one who needs to "grow up" if you think that wanting a less ridiculously imbalanced gender ratio is some irrational request and not a common-sense change to make. Girls make up about half of the human population. You need to stop asking yourself "why does Bionicle have to represent the gender diversity in the real world?" and start asking "what logical reason is there that it SHOULDN'T represent the gender diversity in the real world?" Because there are no good answers to the latter.

Edited November 1, 2014 by Lyichir

[Prime Axiom]

 

2) Equal gender ratios amongst tribes

 

3) Toa of Light being a female. 

 

I don't understand why people are so obsessed with there being more females.

 

In what way would the story change? Why does it matter, if it's targeted to boys? How would the story change if the toa were all female?(From a gender-roleless story, because I'm pretty sure that a full female toa team would be full of stereotypes.)

 

If Takanuva was a female, would anything even change? There's no different biology, no love(from what I heard), no nothing, it's all in their heads.

 

You people must grow up. Changing a few genders around in a toy line isn't going to solve any problems or discriminations.

 

 

 I asked for 1 more female character to be added to the list of main characters. This does not constitute as an obsession. I am asking for a 2/7 female gender ratio. There are practical reasons for why you would have equal gender ratios amongst the tribes. If a kid wanted to make a moc that was a green female villager, for example, they could do so without having to feel as if though they are violating the storyline canon. It gives the storyline more freedom for imagination, whilst allowing the fans to stay internally consistent. Lego also doesn't shoot themselves in the foot. If they wanted to make a blue male character whilst still retaining the gender ratio, they could. They can simply reassign the female role to another colour

 

Lastly: You have heard nothing. Not unless you have access to secret info the rest of us don't have. There has been no information on the subject of romance. There has been no new information on whether or not the characters are biological or not. 2015 is a complete reboot. There is magic in their universe. As far as anyone can tell, they are no longer on the face of a giant robot. We don't even have Matoran or Turaga, nor the Matoran-Toa-Turaga cycle. 2015 is a whole new storyline with a whole new universe. Nobody holds the delusion that changing gender ratios in a fictional storyline is going to solve any problems in real life. This is irrelevant to my point. It's simply elements that would make for a better story. So take down your strawman, send it away on the back of your high horse. 

Edited November 1, 2014 by Prime Axiom

[Regitnui]

There was nothing stopping a female Av-Toa in Gen1 either: Av-Matoran was the sole dual-gender tribe, and there was no reason given why another Av-Toa couldn't have been created the same way other Toa are, a Toa passing on Toa energy to (say) a reconciled Gavla.

 

A female "Master of Light" would bring the gender ration of Gen2 to 5:2, not 7:2.

Edited November 1, 2014 by Regitnui

[Prime Axiom]

There was nothing stopping a female Av-Toa in Gen1 either: Av-Matoran was the sole dual-gender tribe, and there was no reason given why another Av-Toa couldn't have been created the same way other Toa are, a Toa passing on Toa energy to (say) a reconciled Gavla.

 

A female "Master of Light" would bring the gender ration of Gen2 to 5:2, not 7:2.

 

 That's the whole point. It was because Av Matoran were dual gendered that this was possible. This isn't possible with any of the other tribes. Which is restrictive. If you wanted a female Toa of Power, you couldn't do that. Not if you wanted internal consistency.

 

I said 2/7, not 2:7. 2/7 is completely accurate. There are 7 Toa, 2 of which would be female. 

[Seaborgium]

 

 

2) Equal gender ratios amongst tribes

 

3) Toa of Light being a female.

 

I don't understand why people are so obsessed with there being more females.

 

In what way would the story change? Why does it matter, if it's targeted to boys? How would the story change if the toa were all female?(From a gender-roleless story, because I'm pretty sure that a full female toa team would be full of stereotypes.)

 

If Takanuva was a female, would anything even change? There's no different biology, no love(from what I heard), no nothing, it's all in their heads.

 

You people must grow up. Changing a few genders around in a toy line isn't going to solve any problems or discriminations.

 

The lack of love, by the way, is another thing people are clamoring to be removed, just because it was already an artificial restriction—we were told to take at face value that Bionicle characters were capable of the full range of human emotion, EXCEPT for genuine love and affection, and the only excuse was "well, they don't reproduce!" Human love can and does happen outside of reproduction so decanonizing romance on that flimsy pretense seemed to just be an attempt to discourage shippers.

 

Love is a far broader term than romance. While all romance might be love, not all love is romance.  There was genuine love and affection, but not romance. Storge, philia and  agape can exist without Eros. If you think(which I hope you don't) that genuine love cannot exist without romance then you live in a sad world. I believe romance is a good thing, and am undecided as to whether it should exist in Bionicle, but I find it silly and bit sad that some people clamoring for romance in Bionicle act as if there could be no meaningful interaction between characters without it.

[Lyichir]

 

 

 

2) Equal gender ratios amongst tribes

 

3) Toa of Light being a female.

 

I don't understand why people are so obsessed with there being more females.

 

In what way would the story change? Why does it matter, if it's targeted to boys? How would the story change if the toa were all female?(From a gender-roleless story, because I'm pretty sure that a full female toa team would be full of stereotypes.)

 

If Takanuva was a female, would anything even change? There's no different biology, no love(from what I heard), no nothing, it's all in their heads.

 

You people must grow up. Changing a few genders around in a toy line isn't going to solve any problems or discriminations.

 

The lack of love, by the way, is another thing people are clamoring to be removed, just because it was already an artificial restriction—we were told to take at face value that Bionicle characters were capable of the full range of human emotion, EXCEPT for genuine love and affection, and the only excuse was "well, they don't reproduce!" Human love can and does happen outside of reproduction so decanonizing romance on that flimsy pretense seemed to just be an attempt to discourage shippers.

 

Love is a far broader term than romance. While all romance might be love, not all love is romance.  There was genuine love and affection, but not romance. Storge, philia and  agape can exist without Eros. If you think(which I hope you don't) that genuine love cannot exist without romance then you live in a sad world. I believe romance is a good thing, and am undecided as to whether it should exist in Bionicle, but I find it silly and bit sad that some people clamoring for romance in Bionicle act as if there could be no meaningful interaction between characters without it.

 

Oh, I have no illusions that romance is the only kind of love. But love IN GENERAL was frowned upon in story. Hewkii and Macku's relationship was never JUST an "Eros" relationship, but it was gone without a trace once Greg took over and even their playful flirtations were deemed "non-canon". Bionicle characters rarely discussed their feelings with one another, and when they did an acknowledgment of mutual friendship (the story pretty much NEVER mentioned love, especially after Greg took charge). To be perfectly frank, it was stupid and frustrating that the story seemed to have a phobia of sentiment in general. I'd be fine with the new story not dwelling on any romantic themes or talking about love (and I expect that will be the case either way), but it can do so without insisting that those feelings don't and can't exist for its characters.

[Akavakaku]

...No, it was only romantic love that was retconned. All other friendship and caring remained. I disagree with why they got rid of it, but I don't personally feel like the story needs it to appeal to my own tastes.

Still, I know a lot of fans DO want actual romance in-story, and having it included at least as a possibility won't do anything to hurt the enjoyment of those like myself who don't care. So, for the sake of the fandom as a whole, I'd approve of the reintroduction of romance.

[Regitnui]

Honestly, I was disappointed we didn't have any 'couple moments' with Jaller and Hahli or Hewkii and Macku. Am I the only person who imagined Macku squeeing with delight upon seeing Hewkii's big burly (amphibious) Mahri form, then hugging him as much as she could with those MoLtoran arms?

[Iblis]

Honestly I've never really had any interest in couple moments in Bionicle, I've never had anything against it ^{(Actually I would really prefer it if they got rid of the whole arbitrary affection limit... & If I haven't mentioned it already; I'm also for no arbitrary gender limitations, try and make some more female characters. That doesn't mean they need to gender flip any 'pre-existing' characters...)} But;

 

Macku squeeing with delight upon seeing Hewkii's big burly (amphibious) Mahri form, then hugging him as much as she could with those MoLtoran arms

 

Is cute & amusing :3

 

I really hope they don't go overboard with elements and elemental-like powers at least not to fast; at least in the sense that they might leave it open for Toa of other (unspecified?) elements, or if they actually introduce a few with whatever new element before just casually saying their are these 6 other types and they have these colours & these elements ^{(& their genders)} - it doesn't feel like it opens room for people because now they have pressure to ensure that a character of whatever type needs to be a certain colour, - without actually getting the treat of being introduced to a few of that type! I know the pressure is somewhat artificial but that doesn't mean it won't bug people >_>

 

^{Variety is nice, but variety + restrictions without seeing them in action is... it might not be a -, but it isn't a positive either, its 1 for 1; 0, & well giving each positive with a drawback is great, but give people a positive to start on}

 

 

^{Ultimately I just hope G2 does a good job of ...not rehashing things in the same way but different order?; it's kind of hard to pin down... I don't want a dodgy clone & I don't want it to be something that all of a sudden is a different series but with BIONICLE slapped on. But honestly I'm confident LEGO can get a good mix of old and new...}

Edited November 2, 2014 by Iblis616

[Seaborgium]

 

 

 

 

2) Equal gender ratios amongst tribes

 

3) Toa of Light being a female.

 

I don't understand why people are so obsessed with there being more females.

 

In what way would the story change? Why does it matter, if it's targeted to boys? How would the story change if the toa were all female?(From a gender-roleless story, because I'm pretty sure that a full female toa team would be full of stereotypes.)

 

If Takanuva was a female, would anything even change? There's no different biology, no love(from what I heard), no nothing, it's all in their heads.

 

You people must grow up. Changing a few genders around in a toy line isn't going to solve any problems or discriminations.

 

The lack of love, by the way, is another thing people are clamoring to be removed, just because it was already an artificial restriction—we were told to take at face value that Bionicle characters were capable of the full range of human emotion, EXCEPT for genuine love and affection, and the only excuse was "well, they don't reproduce!" Human love can and does happen outside of reproduction so decanonizing romance on that flimsy pretense seemed to just be an attempt to discourage shippers.

 

Love is a far broader term than romance. While all romance might be love, not all love is romance.  There was genuine love and affection, but not romance. Storge, philia and  agape can exist without Eros. If you think(which I hope you don't) that genuine love cannot exist without romance then you live in a sad world. I believe romance is a good thing, and am undecided as to whether it should exist in Bionicle, but I find it silly and bit sad that some people clamoring for romance in Bionicle act as if there could be no meaningful interaction between characters without it.

 

Oh, I have no illusions that romance is the only kind of love. But love IN GENERAL was frowned upon in story. Hewkii and Macku's relationship was never JUST an "Eros" relationship, but it was gone without a trace once Greg took over and even their playful flirtations were deemed "non-canon". Bionicle characters rarely discussed their feelings with one another, and when they did an acknowledgment of mutual friendship (the story pretty much NEVER mentioned love, especially after Greg took charge). To be perfectly frank, it was stupid and frustrating that the story seemed to have a phobia of sentiment in general. I'd be fine with the new story not dwelling on any romantic themes or talking about love (and I expect that will be the case either way), but it can do so without insisting that those feelings don't and can't exist for its characters.

 

I see your point. However I disagree that love in general was frowned upon. Sentiment may have been. Sentiment is very important, but it is not the be-all-and-end-all of love. Absence of expressed sentiment does not necessitate absence of love. The Toa risked their lives for each other and for the matoran. You don't risk your life for someone whom you have no love for.

 

As for the ban on romance, I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, I agree with you that it's a frustrating stunting of character development. On other hand I can kind of see why it was done. Firstly, the target audience is 8-10 year old boys. Now 8-10 year old boys are notoriously unsentimental and unromantic. So romantic storylines wouldn't appeal to the target audience. 

 

Secondly, in mainstream romantic plots, one of the most important elements is the climax. Now Bionicles don't reproduce and don't marry. So the traditional climax of romantic story line no longer exists. Now, I'm not saying there couldn't be a good climax to the romantic subplot, but it might be hard to think up and incorporate into the story. Now if your target audience probably doesn't care, it seems simplest to just avoid any subplot of that kind altogether than spend your time thinking up ways to implement a meaningful climax to a romance that only a very small portion of fandom will care about.

I'm not saying that avoiding romantic subplots was the best decision, but it certainly was the simplest, and I can see why Greg choose to do so.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Seaborgium

[The Undertaken]

Fair enough, too much work for little reward. I can get that kind of thinking.

Still though, if one could get it to work...

 

Anywho, I do wonder how they will characterize Ekimou. Is he a wise and just leader, is he just some guy who makes masks but is really good at it, is he like Hafu?

[Jacks]

As for the ban on romance, I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, I agree with you that it's a frustrating stunting of character development. On other hand I can kind of see why it was done. Firstly, the target audience is 8-10 year old boys. Now 8-10 year old boys are notoriously unsentimental and unromantic. So romantic storylines wouldn't appeal to the target audience.

See, this is what I always hear, but none of the 8-10 year old boys I knew in the early days had a problem with the Hewkii&Macku thing, or the Jaller&Hahli thing. In fact, they seemed to enjoy it in a secretive, almost embarrassed, way -- as though they felt that doing so was somehow transgressive and rebellious. My guess is, the fact that the characters were non-human entities made the subtle romance more tolerable to their 8-10 year old boy sensibilities.

 

Basically, what the subtle romances in Bionicle's first 2.5 years did was -- in a roundabout way -- help 8-10 year old boys learn that it's totally okay to enjoy romantic elements in a story, and I can't see that as a bad thing _{(especially since that age and slightly younger - maybe 7 - is kinda when boys start actively internalizing the toxic masculinity script that tells them they shouldn't be sentimental about things, so Bionicle being a Cool Thing For Boys with sentimental elements is actually really really good)}.

 

(As for me, Hewkii&Macku were my first OTP But, as I turned out not to be a boy at all, I can't use myself as evidence for this point )

Edited November 5, 2014 by Jacks

[Iblis]

^{If they could keep the amount of species to an amount that doesn't accelerate beyond their ability to scale characters to species nicely, you can get away with a few that are the only actual characters of their species even though there are more out there, but generally need a bit of character diversity per species, exceptions are easy (unique single member species, swarm that means less/no individual characterisation, etc.) but yeah...}

 

...One thing I never really followed up on enough; in G1 Tren Krom was

 meant to be a temporary controller of the MUR, ...as was Mata Nui, ^{well he was meant to get another one, but still...} I don't want something as glaring as this happening again, ^{I've seen different explanations but generally "Because Mata Nui wasn't ready"/"Tren Krom had fulfilled his purpose and the 'Great Beings' don't care otherwise" are hardly satisfying answers,} It wasn't an interesting mystery so much as a character who did a few more things for the story & doesn't really tick enough boxes for a true Eldritch Abomination - not even off screen, ^{(I wouldn't expect it onscreen given the target audience,)} 

I mean I'm actually pretty interested in G2 all around in a positive way, I just hope them trying to create mystery doesn't

 turn into arbitrary red herrings that are ignored. ^{I like Tren Krom.} 

 

 

Oh &; Just because something is done within a story doesn't mean it needs to be in primary focus... Would that be about-the-same/better/worse than what they did previously?! ^{(Honest question.)}

 

I figure if something is shown well you don't need to spend a while on it; one way of judging a writer is how subtly can they do things; that way it isn't obnoxious in the sense that it takes up too_many_pages/too_much_of_the_show or done in small increments but keeps on jumping up into focus when a fan is interested in something else... One one hand I can see how just "having it in the background" doesn't sound very satisfying to those that want it, but I figure it can give a bit more room to shippers, & it is still there to more 'attentive readers' ^{(or rather if your interested in it your more likely to pick up on various cues which can be tied into other actions and barely cost a frame/word/minute)}

 

^{Just curious to every-ones thoughts'...} 

Edited November 4, 2014 by Iblis616

[Tangaroa]

 

 

I suppose that folks just don't want another giant robot surprise. Which I can kinda get, it's been done and won't have the same impact if redone.

 

For those fundamentally opposed to the original MU being a giant robot, I don't know. I thought it was rather brilliantly executed, subtly making it more and more obvious from year one (Onu-koro miners found a solid layer of protodermis under the island, believed to be under the entire island,had properties similar to ussal crab shells, and had that room covered by the sundial with the floating Hau and the word "       " floating over-top).

Seriously, looking back that was brilliant foreshadowing, 'cause after the reveal it's obvious that the layer of protodermis was Mata Nui's face!

 

Here, here! And you can see in the original story bible that there was a drawing of mata nuis face under the island.

 

Mah Gawd. 

 

 

The one thing I'd like to see here that wasn't in gen1 that hasn't already been done is a big spaceship thing the Toa fly around the Island in called the Toa-Mobile.           

 

And of course no more giant robots.

 

 

Are you implying I made that up. Because I didn't.

 

https://33.media.tumblr.com/d5ab9e7b6f61a81e94c0374297e957ad/tumblr_nd90qwrgWk1u14y3zo1_500.jpg