The New Children of BIONICLE

[jed1ndy]

Unless you've been living under a rock for the past year, we all know BIONICLE is returning in a reboot in 2015. But, with this reboot, there will be a lot of new kids joining the BIONICLE fandom, perhaps even joining this website, so wouldn't it be confusing when people reference terms like "Mata Nui", "Teridax", "Kanohi", "Matoran", "Great Cataclysm", and "Turaga"? Also, the LEGO Group might include multiple references or take cues from original line in their updated version, so anyone who stumbles on here might be spoiled!

 

 

So really, my question is, how do we integrate these new kids into the fandom with confusing them beyond belief while still keeping discussion between veteran and rookie fans?

[Sad-Machine]

You have to be 13 or older to join this site if their under that age they shouldnt be here.Anyone over 13 should be able to learn those terms and understand the old storyline while following the new one.

[Reznas]

You have to be 13 or older to join this site if their under that age they shouldnt be here.Anyone over 13 should be able to learn those terms and understand the old storyline while following the new one.

 

I don't like the sound of BZPower being an exclusive site. :\ We've always welcomed members of all ages to join, seeing as Bionicle has always been a children's toy-line.

 

-Rez

[jed1ndy]

You have to be 13 or older to join this site if their under that age they shouldnt be here.Anyone over 13 should be able to learn those terms and understand the old storyline while following the new one.

Then maybe not integration with this site, but maybe the BioTube community, or the LEGO Message Boards. Edited October 23, 2014 by Turaga Karera

[Pohatu: Uniter of Stone]

You have to be 13 or older to join this site if their under that age they shouldnt be here.Anyone over 13 should be able to learn those terms and understand the old storyline while following the new one.

Last time I checked, BZP doesn't have age limits.

[Cambion]

forcing anyone to understand the old storyline, especially in the context of joining a fan site, is ridiculous and defeats the whole purpose of a reboot. if new fans hear us mentioning the old canon and become interested in it, they'll go and research it themselves. it should be entirely up to them, though.

 

for this reason, i think it would be wise for BZP to create separate forums for new canon and old canon discussion - but i suspect they're already planning that anyway.

[-Windrider-]

Moving to General Discussion. You also might want to consider this topic, though it's not an exact duplicate.

[Nidhiki of the Shadows]

We're not going to make it mandatory for newer fans to learn these terms just so they can be "in" on the conversation. And we're not going to stop older fans from saying them to avoid confusion.

 

If they don't understand a reference, but want to know more about it, there are resources for them to research it. If they don't care, they won't bother. 

 

In the end if we're talking about a single subject, like BIonicle 2015, chances are they will have something to talk about regardless of their knowledge of the previous line.

 

-NotS

[Republic Commando Niner]

I don't think it'll be any more complicated than the merging of new and old Doctor Who or Star Trek fans. The new fans know the new stuff, the older fans know both. Like Arc and Nidhiki have said of the new guys want to learn about the old stuff they can simply look it up or ask about it.

 

As long as we don't reject the new fans for not being up to date on a story that began and ended many years ago the integration shouldn't be very difficult.

[Sumiki]

It's impossible to know how any of this will pan out in the coming months and years. It's possible that things will stay as they are, but I highly suspect that something will have to change structurally in order to keep BZP orderly.
 
I've always thought the BIONICLE fandom to be very nice overall with regards to integrating new fans.

[Pomegranate]

I'm sure if new folks don't recognize any of those sorts of references, they'll know it's just something from the old Bionicle. If they really wanna know, they could just ask, or look it up themselves. There's really nothing else you can do to help them besides explaining your references in your posts if they're part of some analogy. There could be a stickied "Quick Guide to Ye Olde Bonkles" topic in S&T or something that's just a quick rundown of what whoever makes it expects to be the most likely names and words to come up in casual conversation on BZPower (like, outside S&T, where it would hopefully be made clear if a topic is focusing on 2001-2010 stuff) and just, yeah, have a little list like the one you made in the first post with little definitions. I'm sure that'll help.

I doubt it'll be that big a deal; when I find myself in a big discussion about Doctor Who, I don't feel totally left out and lost when they start talking about or reference the 95% of Classic Who I haven't seen, I just wait for the topic to go back around to what I know or try my best to piece it together for myself; it's not that big a deal and I do end up picking up some info here and there and learning on the fly. On BZPower, they could just go to topics that just focus on 2015+, if they're really really lost and don't like seeing unfamiliar stuff.

As an alternative, I would love if we all go assigned little newbies to take under our wings and mentor That's always fun and potentially adorable.

[Jacks]

I like Pomegranate's idea of a "Guide To The Old Stuff." Maybe links to basic summaries of each year as well as a glossary of terms.

 

 

You have to be 13 or older to join this site if their under that age they shouldnt be here.Anyone over 13 should be able to learn those terms and understand the old storyline while following the new one.

Last time I checked, BZP doesn't have age limits.

 

And if it does, they're a very recent addition. I was twelve when I joined. And I'm pretty sure I've seen members here who are currently twelve.

 

dunno if imperial officer is still around, but I remember playing in the Dino Attack RPG with him when he was eleven

[bonesiii]

how do we integrate these new kids into the fandom with confusing them

Short answer: You don't.

 

Long answer: Bionicle Gen1 was designed to require work to understand, which is pretty much going to make for confusion until they (if they want to) later learn all about it. Even then, the most expertest of experts on the Bionicle story like yours truly are still confused on a few points. Of course, that's not all bad, as it was intended as a mystery.

 

Short answer V2: Let them read/watch/etc. the old story on their own terms and get to experience it, rather than us summarizing things for them.

 

Short answer V3: In the event of lack of need of the above: BIONICLEsector01.

 

Medium answer: My retelling is also designed to help clear up confusion (though as it spoils things like the nature of Mata Nui due to being chronological it's advised to try following at least the core canon story first and then use the retelling as a more in-depth review). =)

[GSR]

As stated upthread, this isn't a new problem - franchises like Doctor Who and Star Trek have dealt with this issue. In the case of Doctor Who, it's an even trickier situation, since that was a contiuation, not a reboot like Bionicle 2015, and so there were things that really were "having backstory from the classic run is necessary or very recommended".

 

But even in that case, the writers of the show handled introducing those elements well, and I think the writers on Bionicle will do the same - and they've got an even easier job, since they don't need to reintroduce specific backstories. The relevant connection for "Toa" as a concept is "Toa are elemental heroes that guard the villages". Boom. Done. Already introduced.

 

With regards to BZP - obviously folks'll be talking about the original canon, and that's fine. I really don't think (and I certainly don't hope) we're going to get situations where vets' knowledge is crowding out discussion for new people. I'm guessing there just won't be enough connection for that to even be a common thing, and if people want to look up references to old stuff, BS01's always there.

 

Long answer: Bionicle Gen1 was designed to require work to understand, which is pretty much going to make for confusion until they (if they want to) later learn all about it. Even then, the most expertest of experts on the Bionicle story like yours truly are still confused on a few points. Of course, that's not all bad, as it was intended as a mystery.

 

Short answer V2: Let them read/watch/etc. the old story on their own terms and get to experience it, rather than us summarizing things for them.

 

Short answer V3: In the event of lack of need of the above: BIONICLEsector01.

 

Medium answer: My retelling is also designed to help clear up confusion (though as it spoils things like the nature of Mata Nui due to being chronological it's advised to try following at least the core canon story first and then use the retelling as a more in-depth review). =)

I do want to respond to this post directly, though. I'd argue back immediately that Bionicle gen 1 was not designed to require work to understand. The splintering of story across tons of novels/serials/comics/whatever was an often-critiqued part of the line, and I suspect people at Lego weren't super happy about that in the long run. And even then, the core points of the story could be gotten fairly easily - comics and movies.

 

If you define "understanding" Bionicle as knowing absolutely everything that happened, then sure, it was confusing and takes work. If you define "understanding" as knowing the big picture of what went down, it's really not that terrible. Probably more difficult than it should be, but not impossible for new fans. I don't think trying to push for a level of understanding that requires hitting every point of old story is a good thing to do, and I suspect it'll be largely unnecessary in 2015 discussions anyway.

 

And - I apologize for targeting this so directly! - I don't think recommending fan works as a place for newbies to catch up is a good idea... basically ever. BS01 and stuff like that work because they stick to established canon, and provide links to original sources - fan works, regardless of how well they keep to canon, aren't something that should be presented as a primary source for someone trying to catch up. Doing so is a really fast way to muddle the waters between what the actual tone/facts of a franchise were, and what a fan's interpretation of them were, regardless of how well-researched a fic is.

Edited October 27, 2014 by GSR

[fishers64]

To this beginning dispute on how to introduce old Bionicle to a new generation...tell 'em to play MNOG.

 

Okay, so the real question - how to deconfuse confused fans who are confused by our discussion of BioniClassic? I think you quote the sources that they are from and point to the sources. [/over simplified answer]

 

And if you get a lot of new fans complaining that that BioniClassic is complicated, we say "No dur." There's nothing we can do about it. 

[Jacks]

To this beginning dispute on how to introduce old Bionicle to a new generation...tell 'em to play MNOG.

But only on a computer from 2005 or before. The Le-Koro minigame where you have to shoot down the Nui-Rama triples in difficulty at modern computer speeds

 

Okay, so the real question - how to deconfuse confused fans who are confused by our discussion of BioniClassic? I think you quote the sources that they are from and point to the sources. [/over simplified answer]

 

And if you get a lot of new fans complaining that that BioniClassic is complicated, we say "No dur." There's nothing we can do about it.

Another possibility would be to make it common practice to tag threads with "Gen1" or "Gen2" as relevant, so new fans who want to avoid confusion can, to a degree, filter out discussions of the original canon. Likewise, new fans who want to learn more about gen1 can narrow in on it more easily, and any old fans who are sticks-in-the-mud about gen2 can block it out to fuel their denial Granted, I have seen very few of those, which is a very hopeful thing.

[25K Now!]

Eh, if they get confused by any G1 references, they'll probably research it or ask around if they're curious.

 

We'll probably be talking mainly about G2 when Bionicle 2015 comes.

[bonesiii]

Bionicle gen 1 was not designed to require work to understand.

According to Greg, yes it was.

 

If you want to argue over whether my retelling works for the purpose I mentioned, the review topic would really be a better place to do that than here. Suffice to say, there are measures taken for it to eliminate the problem you mentioned. (Mostly anyways; if a few people get a little confused on some tidbits, that's okay, world won't end. )

[NorikSigma]

The last thing we need is exclusivity. We've survived 5 years of no-Bionicle because we didn't turn away new people.

 

Also, the old storyline is unrelatedto the new, so it is completely useless to force them to know information older than them.

 

That said, it would be a good idea to encourage them to see some of the old stuff, so they can have a deeper appreciation of the new storyline.

[Hitoshura]

We can't force them to understand the old Bionicle, but if they really want to know I guess one of the staff could create an "official" topic for new fans, which could include the fact that Bionicle is not new, links to BS01 for info, the fact that they are still welcome even if they're new to this, etc etc etc.

[Kopekemaster]

 

how do we integrate these new kids into the fandom with confusing them

Short answer: You don't.

 

Long answer: Bionicle Gen1 was designed to require work to understand, which is pretty much going to make for confusion until they (if they want to) later learn all about it. Even then, the most expertest of experts on the Bionicle story like yours truly are still confused on a few points. Of course, that's not all bad, as it was intended as a mystery.

 

Short answer V2: Let them read/watch/etc. the old story on their own terms and get to experience it, rather than us summarizing things for them.

 

Short answer V3: In the event of lack of need of the above: BIONICLEsector01.

 

Medium answer: My retelling is also designed to help clear up confusion (though as it spoils things like the nature of Mata Nui due to being chronological it's advised to try following at least the core canon story first and then use the retelling as a more in-depth review). =)

 

This has pretty much been my philosophy on it from the start.

 

Obviously, though, the amount of stuff that they'll need to know from the original will be little to none (probably), so it will be on a "as you want it" schedule. Which should be fine.

Edited October 31, 2014 by Kopekemaster

[Noxryn]

Kids don't need to know about the first generation of Bionicle if they don't want to learn it. A lot likely won't want to learn about it, but with other franchises who have long, convoluted stories and side stories and so on and so forth, some kids will likely take it upon themselves to learn about the old story if they feel enthralled by the new story. Even then, there'll be kids who'll read about it on a wiki if they're trying to incorporate it into creative works, I know I've spent my fair share of time on wikis for series I didn't want to watch (due to how long it'd take) all because a RP sounded interesting to me (Notable examples: Naruto and Bleach. Not a particular fan of either's story or plot elements, but it was worth figuring out the world and the canon in order to play the RP's I wanted to, since the stories there were quite heavily improved over what was being handed out in canonically).

But they don't have to know anything.

[Wazdakka]

Nobody should have to learn the old Bionicle Universe to understand the Nuvaverse. If people want to, then they will.