Form of the Original Toa

[bonesiii]

But again, you can't use "that's what the set designers had to work with" to explain appearances in-universe. It just falls on its face. Unless, of course, you're trying to argue that the appearance of sets should be considered non-canon.

Like I said:

 

The Inika build usage later on is clearly for set reasons and the fact that the canon stopped even trying to explain it showing up every[where] implies to me that unlike with the Mata (and Nuva) and Metru builds, we're not meant to take the set form that seriously.

 

However, it's a false dichotomy to say that this means they should be considered non-canon (that either they definitely are, or definitely aren't). Just means you can't assume they're meant to be exact. We would need to see confirmation.

[The 1st Shadow]

Check the question again, Johnrahk. it asks if "Toa" look like the Mata underneath, which could mean any Toa in general. I specified the Nuva, not the Metru or Inika. I was using the clothes analogy to disprove your inclusion of the AA forms of the Nuva, specifically. Try again.

 

And, Jacks, I take Greg's stance that the sets are only representative of the in-story characters, and are not entirely canon. Look at the hands, for example. How ridiculously complicated would your life be if you had a stub on the end of your arm with three holes with which to "hold" things? Also, the sets don't show the organic components. So, no--I do not consider the sets to be entirely canon when discussing the story.

Edited October 28, 2014 by ~The 1st Shadow~

[Sergei Rahkmaninoff]

     Oh, of course. Noob mistake. *facepalm.*

 

     But my original mention of the adaptive armor Nuva was targeted at the actual armor, not the Nuva. If the armor was made to fit more Toa than just the Nuva, which is a logical contingency for the event that the Nuva failed and other Toa needed to don the armor, then its build would be a common one. This is especially important if we credit the regional variations theory, although some don't, because if you needed something that would fit varied bodies of Toa, you would design it based upon what all the variations of Toa build share. I presumed that, within the parameters of my theory, that common point would be the Inika build. But like I said originally, it's flimsy evidence anyways, like you've been saying.

 

     And even though the sets are obviously not perfect, aside from the movies, they're all we've got. And we never even got movie Inika builds EDIT aside from TLR, and those were totally set accurate. So we've just got to work with it as best we can.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Johnrahk

[The 1st Shadow]

     Oh, of course. Noob mistake. *facepalm.*

 

     But my original mention of the adaptive armor Nuva was targeted at the actual armor, not the Nuva. If the armor was made to fit more Toa than just the Nuva, which is a logical contingency for the event that the Nuva failed and other Toa needed to don the armor, then its build would be a common one. This is especially important if we credit the regional variations theory, although some don't, because if you needed something that would fit varied bodies of Toa, you would design it based upon what all the variations of Toa build share. I presumed that, within the parameters of my theory, that common point would be the Inika build. But like I said originally, it's flimsy evidence anyways, like you've been saying.

 

     And even though the sets are obviously not perfect, aside from the movies, they're all we've got. And we never even got movie Inika builds EDIT aside from TLR, and those were totally set accurate. So we've just got to work with it as best we can.

Ah. forgot that part. However, we must consider two things:

1) Artakha designed the AA for the Nuva to use, and if it was necessary, could have designed different armor for Toa of a different model.

2) The definition of the word "adaptive." Who's to say the armor not only adapts to the environment, but also to the body of the Toa wearing it? Like the One Ring in LotR, which was capable of adapting its size to fit its chosen bearer.

[Sergei Rahkmaninoff]

 

     Oh, of course. Noob mistake. *facepalm.*

 

     But my original mention of the adaptive armor Nuva was targeted at the actual armor, not the Nuva. If the armor was made to fit more Toa than just the Nuva, which is a logical contingency for the event that the Nuva failed and other Toa needed to don the armor, then its build would be a common one. This is especially important if we credit the regional variations theory, although some don't, because if you needed something that would fit varied bodies of Toa, you would design it based upon what all the variations of Toa build share. I presumed that, within the parameters of my theory, that common point would be the Inika build. But like I said originally, it's flimsy evidence anyways, like you've been saying.

 

     And even though the sets are obviously not perfect, aside from the movies, they're all we've got. And we never even got movie Inika builds EDIT aside from TLR, and those were totally set accurate. So we've just got to work with it as best we can.

Ah. forgot that part. However, we must consider two things:

1) Artakha designed the AA for the Nuva to use, and if it was necessary, could have designed different armor for Toa of a different model.

2) The definition of the word "adaptive." Who's to say the armor not only adapts to the environment, but also to the body of the Toa wearing it? Like the One Ring in LotR, which was capable of adapting its size to fit its chosen bearer.

 

     Agreed! This leaves just one inconsitency: If either of those points above are true, then we would expect the Adaptive Armor Nuva to look much more similar then to their Nuva forms than they did. At this point, I will agree with you and say that we should take the sets (at least the '08 Nuva sets) with a grain of salt.

[The 1st Shadow]

 

 

     Oh, of course. Noob mistake. *facepalm.*

 

     But my original mention of the adaptive armor Nuva was targeted at the actual armor, not the Nuva. If the armor was made to fit more Toa than just the Nuva, which is a logical contingency for the event that the Nuva failed and other Toa needed to don the armor, then its build would be a common one. This is especially important if we credit the regional variations theory, although some don't, because if you needed something that would fit varied bodies of Toa, you would design it based upon what all the variations of Toa build share. I presumed that, within the parameters of my theory, that common point would be the Inika build. But like I said originally, it's flimsy evidence anyways, like you've been saying.

 

     And even though the sets are obviously not perfect, aside from the movies, they're all we've got. And we never even got movie Inika builds EDIT aside from TLR, and those were totally set accurate. So we've just got to work with it as best we can.

Ah. forgot that part. However, we must consider two things:

1) Artakha designed the AA for the Nuva to use, and if it was necessary, could have designed different armor for Toa of a different model.

2) The definition of the word "adaptive." Who's to say the armor not only adapts to the environment, but also to the body of the Toa wearing it? Like the One Ring in LotR, which was capable of adapting its size to fit its chosen bearer.

 

     Agreed! This leaves just one inconsitency: If either of those points above are true, then we would expect the Adaptive Armor Nuva to look much more similar then to their Nuva forms than they did. At this point, I will agree with you and say that we should take the sets (at least the '08 Nuva sets) with a grain of salt.

 

Actually, Greg said that the default form of the armor resembled their '02 forms. The only reason they were depicted as their '08 forms in the comic was because the artist didn't have the '02 models on hand to draw.

[The Hip Historian Iaredios]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, of course. Noob mistake. *facepalm.*

 

But my original mention of the adaptive armor Nuva was targeted at the actual armor, not the Nuva. If the armor was made to fit more Toa than just the Nuva, which is a logical contingency for the event that the Nuva failed and other Toa needed to don the armor, then its build would be a common one. This is especially important if we credit the regional variations theory, although some don't, because if you needed something that would fit varied bodies of Toa, you would design it based upon what all the variations of Toa build share. I presumed that, within the parameters of my theory, that common point would be the Inika build. But like I said originally, it's flimsy evidence anyways, like you've been saying.

 

And even though the sets are obviously not perfect, aside from the movies, they're all we've got. And we never even got movie Inika builds EDIT aside from TLR, and those were totally set accurate. So we've just got to work with it as best we can.

Ah. forgot that part. However, we must consider two things:

1) Artakha designed the AA for the Nuva to use, and if it was necessary, could have designed different armor for Toa of a different model.

2) The definition of the word "adaptive." Who's to say the armor not only adapts to the environment, but also to the body of the Toa wearing it? Like the One Ring in LotR, which was capable of adapting its size to fit its chosen bearer.

Agreed! This leaves just one inconsitency: If either of those points above are true, then we would expect the Adaptive Armor Nuva to look much more similar then to their Nuva forms than they did. At this point, I will agree with you and say that we should take the sets (at least the '08 Nuva sets) with a grain of salt.

Actually, Greg said that the default form of the armor resembled their '02 forms. The only reason they were depicted as their '08 forms in the comic was because the artist didn't have the '02 models on hand to draw.

They would have looked like that with the colors of the 08 sets (I apologize if you implied this, I just wanted to clear that up). I have been wanting to buy some original Nuva sets to paint them with the AA on.

[Tuuli]

But....Toa Mata...

[Lyichir]

Personally I never liked the story's propensity to try to explain every conceivable difference between sets. For example, we got an explanation for the size and build of every single Matoran variation, which was stupid because it meant that if you built a custom Matoran design you'd have to come up with some explanation for why they're different from all the others (what's more, it made the terrible Metru-Nui Matoran design the "default", with all the better designs just transformations or mutations). Trying to explain every single inconsistency in set design was a mistake from the start and helped contribute to the Bionicle theme's overwhelming complexity.

 

For that reason I see no point in trying to figure out what hypothetical characters would canonically look like, especially based on arbitrary and ridiculous rules inferred from past set designs. To do so flagrantly limits the imagination, which goes against the spirit of the Lego brand.