Noble Olmak & Olisi

[Archon~]

Hi, I'd like to discuss the possibility of noblel versions of these masks existing. We know that they're very rare in the MU and have both been fabricated by powerful creators in the Bionicle Universe (GBs, and Artakha).

Since they both have a bery interesting power, is the possibility for a noble version of either of these masks possible, since I don't see how these powers could be noblized?

[Regitnui]

Olmak: Only user transportation, unable to allow others to travel through portals created.

 

Olisi: The visions are temporary, and the viewer/victim, is able to snap out of it at any time.

 

That wasn't so hard. neither of them are Legendary, after all. There's no reason why they couldn't be Noble.

[Banana Gunz]

Yeah, what Regit said. They're just like other masks, just slightly more interesting powers. The likeliness of seeing them in noble forms though... is considerably low. At this point I don't think there's even a single proper working Olmak anymore.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Banana Gunz

[25K Now!]

Yeah, what Regit said. They're just like other masks, just slightly more interesting powers. The likeliness of seeing them in noble forms though... is considerably low. At this point I don't think there's even a single proper working Olmak anymore.

Nope, pretty sure they're all gone or on Vezon's face.

[Toa of Italy]

I agree with what has been said on the Noble Olisi.

 

As for the Noble Olmak, I'd suggest another power limitation. The user could still create portals through which multiple beings can travel. But the portals can only lead to other locations within the universe he/she is in and not open into an alternate universe or pocket dimension (which, now that I think of it, would have come handy in Takanuva's case).

[Cambion]

Olmak: Only user transportation, unable to allow others to travel through portals created.

 

Olisi: The visions are temporary, and the viewer/victim, is able to snap out of it at any time.

 

That wasn't so hard. neither of them are Legendary, after all. There's no reason why they couldn't be Noble.

for the Olisi, i'd actually change something else as well, such as limit the power to the user. the limitations you described don't really seem to be quite enough for a Noble Mask.

[The 1st Shadow]

Something I'd like to add to the Olmak: The great version can open a portal and it will stay open until a target passes through. The limitation I suggest is that the user of a Noble Olmak would have to focus in order to keep it open.

[Regitnui]

 

 

Olmak: Only user transportation, unable to allow others to travel through portals created.

 

Olisi: The visions are temporary, and the viewer/victim, is able to snap out of it at any time.

 

That wasn't so hard. neither of them are Legendary, after all. There's no reason why they couldn't be Noble.

for the Olisi, i'd actually change something else as well, such as limit the power to the user. the limitations you described don't really seem to be quite enough for a Noble Mask.

That's a good idea. I didn't even spend a minute considering them, just guessed how the powers could be scaled down.

[Cambion]

 

 

Olmak: Only user transportation, unable to allow others to travel through portals created.

 

Olisi: The visions are temporary, and the viewer/victim, is able to snap out of it at any time.

 

That wasn't so hard. neither of them are Legendary, after all. There's no reason why they couldn't be Noble.

for the Olisi, i'd actually change something else as well, such as limit the power to the user. the limitations you described don't really seem to be quite enough for a Noble Mask.

That's a good idea. I didn't even spend a minute considering them, just guessed how the powers could be scaled down.

 

....actually, my idea isn't really that great now that i think about it - essentially it becomes the Mask of Possibilities. oops. this kind of thing becomes a problem when there's a bunch of sets of masks with similar powers.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Arc

[Nidhiki of the Shadows]

All noble masks need is a more strict power limit. Pretty easy to cap if you ask me.  

 

I wish we got more noble masks.

 

-NotS

[Archon~]

I guess I just felt as if a mask that controls opening and closing Interdimensional Space would have a limitation, or perhaps even be close to Legendary status? And the Olisi, I kind of figured it could be nobleized but wanted to hear what you guys had to say.

[Regitnui]

The Olmak isn't the Kanohi of Space, but the Kanohi of Gates: its entire purpose is opening pocket dimensions. So removing that is changing the Mask, not bringing it down to noble. Limiting it to user-only, more temporary portals seems logical.

 

The Olisi as well. It's a unique mask, probably cobbled together by Karzahni out of envy after losing the Mask of Creation. But while it is unique, there's no reason Artakha could build one as a sort of visualization tool for a council of turaga. So reducing it should.make it fall somewhere between the Mahiki and Clairvoyance. Visions of futures to come, but they're not as Lotus-Eater-Machine powerful as the Great mask, and cannot trap someone indefinitely. All dreams must end, as it were.

[Vartemp]

I agree with what's been said about a Noble Olisi.

 

As for the Olmak, I'd think its power would be greatly diminished. I mean, look at what we've seen a Great Olmak do. That's got to be the reason why there were only two in the universe, but that's another story. I think a user of a Noble Olmak would be unable to keep a gate open for long, and it couldn't be used nearly as often, because it takes a lot of concentration to open a gate.

[bonesiii]

An interesting question. Having read through replies, it seems to me the best answers are:

 

 

Great Olmak: Opens Dimensional portals, basically wormholes, anywhere the user can imagine.

 

Noble Olmak: Opens wormholes only to locations within the same dimension. (Maybe and to pocket dimensions attached to your dimension, like the Field of Shadow, rather than alternate timelines, but methinks not.)

 

 

Great Olisi: Visions of any alternate timeline, branching off of a choice fork in the past or present.

 

Noble Olisi: Much shorter visions so you can't see much detail, and only branching off of very recent past (and maybe not the present at all, but if so, you can't see far into the possible futures).

 

 

Reasons:

 

Olmak -- appeals to weird limits about the portal itself seem too confusing or trivial compared to "same dimension". It opens a wormhole; a blockade on all but the user going in seems to add complexity and power usage, not subtract it, for example (you'd be adding a selective forcefield, basically). Using these instead of "same only" seems to leave the Noble version still way overpowered IMO, and if they're used in addition to it, it makes the power definition to complicated methinks.

 

Also, to this point:

 

its entire purpose is opening pocket dimensions. So removing that is changing the Mask, not bringing it down to noble.

Actually it is basically a wormhole that can get you past any wall, and the storyline features many "same dimension" uses of it in this way, like the Tahtorak being sent to Metru Nui, Brutaka using it to travel all over, and Brutaka's (failed due to the mutagenic waters corrupting the mask) attempt to send Takanuva right to same-dimension Karda Nui. Travel to other dimensions is treated more as an extra in most cases, but is so extremely powerful that extra or not, it makes much more sense as Great-only IMO.

 

And "changing the mask" already has been used for some masks, like Illusion/Shapeshifting, or written/spoken for Translation, so is valid. But it isn't really changing it; the mask still opens wormholes, it just has much less power so it makes sense it wouldn't have enough to reach alternate dimensions.

 

 

Olisi -- Same basic reasoning as the Olmak; less power usage required for closer alternate timelines and shorter visions of them. Admittedly, "user-only" and perhaps "only shows distant past forks" may be fairly reasonable alternatives here, though. The former could reasonably be in addition to other limits like the ones I gave above, methinks, but IMO it's unnecessary.

 

Only showing distant past would make sense and I almost used this instead for my main suggestion, as it would be about getting rid of the efficient use for future-sight, and could be more true to the basic idea of the mask, but it does seem to me that pushing the visions farther in the past would require more power, not less. But that may be debatable; maybe the past is easier; it all depends on how the power does what it does, which we can't necessarily guess.

 

 

To this:

 

for the Olisi, i'd actually change something else as well, such as limit the power to the user. the limitations you described don't really seem to be quite enough for a Noble Mask.

 

[...]

 

....actually, my idea isn't really that great now that i think about it - essentially it becomes the Mask of Possibilities. oops. this kind of thing becomes a problem when there's a bunch of sets of masks with similar powers.

I somewhat agree with this; I think just less powerful visions given to anybody is more true to the concept of the mask. Avoiding this even more is what my alternate suggestion of only distant past is aimed at, so that may be reason enough to do that, although methinks that falls apart because 1) energy usage problem, and 2) the power mixtures don't care if one resulting power happens to overlap another a lot, so that's an out-story consideration rather than in-story. But that may be enough to justify it anyways.

 

Re: Regitnui's suggestion the above quote was adding to, I don't think just "victim can snap out of it earlier" works, though, because the power isn't necessary to be used in a bad way (psychwar), and risks being OP way more if used in a good way (gifting good visions to allies), so limiting the length forcibly due to power constraints seems more consistent with the idea of Noble masks rather than making it optional. (And would have the victim come out of it sooner as a side effect anyways.)

 

 

Also, while I'm at it, a correction of something from the firstpost and second post by topic starter:

 

...since I don't see how these powers could be noblized?

 

[...]

 

I guess I just felt as if a mask that controls opening and closing Interdimensional Space would have a limitation, or perhaps even be close to Legendary status? And the Olisi, I kind of figured it could be nobleized but wanted to hear what you guys had to say.

Even Legendary masks could have "noble" (or less powerful; Noble isn't quite the right word, although the Vahi was originally considered a Great mask, so the concept could have worked in an alternate version of Bionicle, and maybe will in the reboot ) versions of them. A "noble" Vahi would just slow or speed time less, etc.

 

I do agree the Olmak could have been classified as a Legendary Mask, but it didn't absolutely have to be.

 

It does seem different enough from what a "Mask of Space" might be able to do more flexibly; it has a specific power, rather than general control over a major fundamental of existence like Time and Life. Then again, Creation is also less like a fundamental force and is just a really powerful ability, at least in its "tell how to construct" side, so it could have worked. I say it doesn't have to be mainly because the infinite power mixture possibility should enable any number of really effective (by being efficient with use of energy) powers; the Olmak need not be seen as super powerful beyond others but simply to happen to use the same amount of energy in a specific way that is much more useful, like the difference between shooting a laser off into random directions versus aiming it at a target.

 

But the idea that Legendary powers don't have Nobles is a special rule added to Bionicle (or protodermis by the Great Beings), which isn't necessary to the power ideas themselves. So if you either assume a version of Bionicle without that arbitrary limitation (arbitrary in terms of being added to the power idea itself; unrelated to the power idea -- I don't mean that it isn't added for good reason; it is), or take it as-is as not Legendary, a Noble version is always possible.

 

And IMO the Olmak is actually a bit easier to figure out than the other; you seemed to see it the other way around but I'm not sure why, as the Olmak does two basic things, one easier (same world), one extremely powerful (any other dimension).

 

So, that got long lol. Anywho, hope this helps.

[Quisoves Potoo]

Concerning the Olisi: I thought that it didn't actually show alternate timelines, just very detailed illusions. Take Jaller's vision, for example. It depicted a history in which Takua's death lead to Makuta enslaving the Matoran of Mata Nui. However, the vision didn't take the Plan into account. If a divergent timeline had actually been depicted, then Jaller would have witnessed a sequence of events not dissimilar to what actually happened, in which Makuta tricked the Toa Nuva into allowing to take over Mata Nui's body, no? Takanuva was only ever a superfluous annoyance to Teridax.

[Toa Malachives]

Maybe the Olmak would only allow you to go nearer by and not through different dimensions. I think Olmak more than Olisi is sort of a 'half-legendary' mask on a different point. The Olisi's power could almost be replicated by another thing, like Teridax did to Axonn, and other beings could do. The Olmak however has powers you would infer that Great Beings don't have considering in the Melding Alternate Universe they had to call on Brutaka to transport Manseka (horrible spelling) and Teridax to the one were most cannon takes place. The Great Beings do not seem to have more power than the ones in the Melding Universe. Considering that and that legendary masks seem to be the only masks with significant power the Great Beings do not naturally wield you could call the Olmak, and the one destroyed by Teridax, you could call it a 'half-legendary' mask. Half because of the obvious power difference.

Thanks for reading

Edited November 7, 2014 by Toa Malachives

[Sumiki]

Maybe the Olmak would only allow you to go nearer by and not through different dimensions

That's basically what the Kualsi—Iruini's mask—did.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Sumiki

[Archon~]

Some people have adresses this, but yeah my question originated from the strange power of the Olmak to manipulate interdimensional gateways, and I was curious regarding the Olisi since it holds a fair amount of omnipresence, being able to predict any scenario, and even taking Karzahni aback.

Basically, I hoped that it would be possible to lable some Great Kanohi semi-Legendary, similar to Nuva masks.

[Regitnui]

Is it not possible to be surprised by something you have set in motion? It's not so much the mask showing him something new as it is the facts before him being presented in a new way. He knew nothing about Makuta's plan, and did not foresee that, but did foresee the GSR failing, which is something he should have known, but forgotten about.