Did HF go out with a bang?

[Banana Gunz]

I can sort of understand the idea of making an HF movie (considering it wasn't so popular it probably wouldn't have been the prime theme for a movie, but it was still a fair possibility), but a live action HF movie? I don't even. Just, why? hau?

 

A Bionicle theatrical film would be amazing, but seeing Aanchir's points about the troubles of introducing a movie in the middle of its run does seem pretty problematic. I have full confidence that it can be done, and done well, but it would have to have a lot of care put into it.

 

To stay on topic, an HF movie could've been an interesting way to end off the theme. It wouldn't have to have been theatrical or super huge but it would've been something. There were already a bunch of stuff set up that could've made for a cool ending. It's just disappointing to me that we didn't even get an ending movie/tv special. Sets would've been great, but at least a tie to the story would've been nice. The way it was left off will forever leave HF as the theme that was just there. Rather than progressing, the story was just a bunch of little stories sown together will little to no impact on each other. A fair ending (or an ending at all!) with one final (it doesn't have to technically be the downfall of the factory or anything, but it should be the final ultimate battle that we're exposed to) huge struggle for the heroes could've fixed that a bit.

 

Aw well, who cares. Bionicle!

[Aanchir]

I can sort of understand the idea of making an HF movie (considering it wasn't so popular it probably wouldn't have been the prime theme for a movie, but it was still a fair possibility), but a live action HF movie? I don't even. Just, why? hau?

The most obvious reason is that Universal wanted a property of their own to compete with Paramount's Transformers film franchise. There was not a whole lot of incentive to it for LEGO, which is probably a part of why the talks never went anywhere.

[bioniclepluslotr]

The story ended with a massacre. Were they trying to make people dislike it so they could discontinue?

[Sybre]

The story ended with a massacre. Were they trying to make people dislike it so they could discontinue?

Actually, that sounds kinda foolproof. If they wanted us to REALLY hate it, though, the sets would have sucked terribly.

[Tahu3.0]

For me i dint like the story ending of Hero Factory.

[Vezon shall Return]

A story about robot heroes being built? Now that's just cheap and cheating to begin with... of course it ended horribly. Nothing organic or special about them from beginning to the end.... lol Now Bionicle on the other hand... that's a different story. lol

Edited December 3, 2014 by TrueshadowX01

[Aanchir]

A story about robot heroes being built? Now that's just cheap and cheating to begin with...

People who think heroes need to be organic or part-organic to be compelling have no imagination. How a hero is created or what kinds of materials they're made from have nothing to do with how heroic they can be. The Toa Mata were created artificially in a lab, but that doesn't mean that they're automatically less heroic than Toa who started out as Matoran. Neither, then, are sentient robots created in a factory automatically less heroic than magical biomechanical aliens.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Aanchir

[RAMPANT]

I think the ending set-wise was okay, but story-wise it was horrible.  To quote the initial question this topic was lead with:

...Do you think HF went out with a bang? Or do you think it ended with a Stars-style ending?...

Personally, I think Hero Factory had an ending so much worse that a Stars-style ending.  It had a "Alpha-Team/Exo-Force style fade into obscurity with loose ends to the story flailing around like headless snakes" ending.

[Prime Axiom]

 Yes it did. If by bang you meant the oh-so-satisfying sound of Bionicle's glorious right hook connecting with its jawline.  

 

 I kid, of course. I dunno. Set wise they were decent. Storywise, eehhhh...

Edited December 3, 2014 by Prime Axiom

[Sybre]

 Yes it did. If by bang you meant the oh-so-satisfying sound of Bionicle's glorious right hook connecting with its jawline.  

 

 I kid, of course. I dunno. Set wise they were decent. Storywise, eehhhh...

And a left hook to the other side of the jaw sealed HF's fate considering BIONICLE doesn't let the genocides of innocent creatures go on without justice.

[Rahkshi Lalonde]

 

 Yes it did. If by bang you meant the oh-so-satisfying sound of Bionicle's glorious right hook connecting with its jawline.  

 

 I kid, of course. I dunno. Set wise they were decent. Storywise, eehhhh...

And a left hook to the other side of the jaw sealed HF's fate considering BIONICLE doesn't let the genocides of innocent creatures go on without justice.

 

 

The "heart of the visorak" plot point begs to differ. (hey, here's hoping Bionicle 2 moves past such things.)

[Sybre]

 

 

 Yes it did. If by bang you meant the oh-so-satisfying sound of Bionicle's glorious right hook connecting with its jawline.  

 

 I kid, of course. I dunno. Set wise they were decent. Storywise, eehhhh...

And a left hook to the other side of the jaw sealed HF's fate considering BIONICLE doesn't let the genocides of innocent creatures go on without justice.

 

 

The "heart of the visorak" plot point begs to differ. (hey, here's hoping Bionicle 2 moves past such things.)

 

I guess I overlooked that! Oops! But yeah, let's hope we're past all that!

[fishers64]

 

 

 Yes it did. If by bang you meant the oh-so-satisfying sound of Bionicle's glorious right hook connecting with its jawline.  

 

 I kid, of course. I dunno. Set wise they were decent. Storywise, eehhhh...

And a left hook to the other side of the jaw sealed HF's fate considering BIONICLE doesn't let the genocides of innocent creatures go on without justice.

 

 

The "heart of the visorak" plot point begs to differ. (hey, here's hoping Bionicle 2 moves past such things.)

 

Keetongu, the Rahaga, and thousands of other conquered lands would like to dispute the "innocent creatures" accusation...

[Aanchir]

Keetongu, the Rahaga, and thousands of other conquered lands would like to dispute the "innocent creatures" accusation...

And in Invasion from Below, the beasts started attacking and kidnapping surface-dwellers. All because a drilling team that meant no harm to them accidentally invaded their territory. You might say that they were just behaving according to their territorial nature, but weren't the Visorak also just following their natural instincts to trap Rahi in webs and cocoons? They were, after all, created for that sort of conquest.

[Vezon shall Return]

 

A story about robot heroes being built? Now that's just cheap and cheating to begin with...

People who think heroes need to be organic or part-organic to be compelling have no imagination. How a hero is created or what kinds of materials they're made from have nothing to do with how heroic they can be. The Toa Mata were created artificially in a lab, but that doesn't mean that they're automatically less heroic than Toa who started out as Matoran. Neither, then, are sentient robots created in a factory automatically less heroic than magical biomechanical aliens.

 

 

Oh I do love a good challenge. Let's get imaginative.. the concept of a hero is someone who is discovered their vocation and pursues it, and is someone who grows in understanding and expands upon it. A hero can't be built, a hero must be discovered, like it was seen in both the first Bionicle movie and in the Lego movie.

 

The reason why Hero factory is such a fail to begin with, was because it's core concept of simply building a machine specifically to be a "hero" is greatly flawed. A robot enforcer can't "chose" to follow some spiritual journey leading to their ultimate destiny through choice and trail. They are just bound to do what they are programed to do... what a compelling story. Biomechanical beings are different since they have organic brains (assumingly) Since they are shown to have a more real self awareness and rationality like humans (not artificial intelligence... *All your base belong to us*) 

 

This means they have actual freewill, to either choose their destiny they were assigned to or not. It is far more meaningful and to be destined to do a specific good by a higher power (the great beings or the mask of Life... or whatever inserted their destiny into their DNA, giving them purpose), than to be just a device or tool used by someone else as an artificial means to an end. Robots are boring, unless they explain why they were built in the first place and why they are there...

 

In Megaman X, "X" is the first and only robot in that story that could experience real human emotions, which is seen by the villain Sigma to be a weakness, but it is actually his greatest strength, and it is because Megaman X is special in that way that helps him to be heroic by overcoming his "weakness" and learning to understand himself and his destiny. Hero factory doesn't talk about anything deep or meaningful that could be associated with anything heroic... because it's as shallow as a kids show can be. lol

  

Being lazy and slapping the title "hero" to any robot that was randomly built specifically to be a "hero" is not very imaginative to begin with. Now if they if it was about a "worker robot" who chose to do a higher calling and saves the day by learning to be a hero. But they aren't like transformers (which have DNA, because they are Autonomous Robotic Organisms... so they are technically organic and can actually die... which adds more meaning to them, even though it is all fictional).

 

In the origin story of Optimus Prime and the Autobots, they were suppose to be workers and the Decepticons were suppose to be defenders, but because the Decepticons wanted to rule through fear and power, the Autobots rose to do a "higher" calling than what they were originally designed to do and that is what makes them heroic... Hero Factory just has a lazy story, a lazy concept... and no imagination... and aren't really heroes... just a bunch of cookie cut out wanna be heroes that get stupid upgrades for achieving little to nothing. lol 

[fishers64]

 

Keetongu, the Rahaga, and thousands of other conquered lands would like to dispute the "innocent creatures" accusation...

And in Invasion from Below, the beasts started attacking and kidnapping surface-dwellers. All because a drilling team that meant no harm to them accidentally invaded their territory. You might say that they were just behaving according to their territorial nature, but weren't the Visorak also just following their natural instincts to trap Rahi in webs and cocoons? They were, after all, created for that sort of conquest.

Exactly. Both were just menaces/enemies anyway that were no good for the most part. (Although you can argue that the Visorak cleaned up a bunch of Metru Nui's Rahi mess, they also were somewhat responsible for it in the first place, so...)

 

Otherwise we might congratulate Mata Nui for avenging the genocide of 98 Makuta, but that's neither here nor there... 

Edited December 4, 2014 by fishers64

[Lenny7092]

I don't understand why Hero Factory had to end terribly with an episode that showed genocide on an territorial creature for no reason. The Heroes could be made peace with the monsters to respect their tranquility in their home, and then that over with in a not-sad-or-cruel way. Mechs may be a good way to finish a story, but with poor character development, meaningless genocide on an animal species, and unresolved things, including cliffhangers? Why make Hero Factory look bad, so it can end itself? Bionicle's toyline had a good ending, where Mata Nui finally defeated Teridax and restore Spherus Magna. Why not resolve certain things in the Hero Factory story? I don't know.

Anyway, I agree with the opinion that genocides are a cruel and heartless way to foil people and wild creatures from evil-doing. Heroes could have make peace with them or put them in prison as punishment. The heroes feel no remorse from killing. They can just about each other, but they don't care about the evil creatures they killed. How sad.

[Aanchir]

Oh I do love a good challenge. Let's get imaginative.. the concept of a hero is someone who is discovered their vocation and pursues it, and is someone who grows in understanding and expands upon it. A hero can't be built, a hero must be discovered, like it was seen in both the first Bionicle movie and in the Lego movie.

 

The reason why Hero factory is such a fail to begin with, was because it's core concept of simply building a machine specifically to be a "hero" is greatly flawed. A robot enforcer can't "chose" to follow some spiritual journey leading to their ultimate destiny through choice and trail. They are just bound to do what they are programed to do... what a compelling story. Biomechanical beings are different since they have organic brains (assumingly) Since they are shown to have a more real self awareness and rationality like humans (not artificial intelligence... *All your base belong to us*)

The part I put in italics is false in the Hero Factory universe. The part I bolded is true in the Hero Factory universe, even when referring to robots. In a fantasy universe, there's absolutely no reason why a character needs fleshy organs to have real, human-like levels of reasoning and emotion.

 

Now, that doesn't mean that all robots in the Hero Factory universe are capable of human-like reasoning and emotion, any more than all organic characters in real life or all biomechanical characters in BIONICLE are capable of human-like reasoning and emotion. But Hero Factory heroes are human-like in these respects. They are not slaves to their programming the way real-life robots would be.

 

And as for the characters being made artificially... well, so were the Toa Mata. Not just that, they were built specifically to be heroes, just like the heroes of Hero Factory! Of course, in both cases the "heroes" still had to prove themselves worthy of the task they were created for. That's why Hero Factory rookies have to go through such intense training, both in simulations and in real supervised missions, to prove that they have what it takes to be fully-fledged heroes.

 

This means they have actual freewill, to either choose their destiny they were assigned to or not. It is far more meaningful and to be destined to do a specific good by a higher power (the great beings or the mask of Life... or whatever inserted their destiny into their DNA, giving them purpose), than to be just a device or tool used by someone else as an artificial means to an end. Robots are boring, unless they explain why they were built in the first place and why they are there...

Why do you have to know where a universe's characters, robotic or otherwise, come from for them to be interesting? There are a lot of people who don't know where the human race comes from. That doesn't mean that stories about other humans are boring to them. There are even lots of incredibly interesting stories about characters who don't even know where they as individuals come from.

 

And as I've been trying to get at, lots of robots (including heroes, villains, and most civilians) in the Hero Factory universe DO have free will. They're not just mindless drones — anybody who watches five minutes of the TV show should be able to figure that out. Just look at Von Ness. He wasn't programmed to abandon his teammates. He chose to do so when he was faced with a disaster he wasn't prepared for and was more afraid for his own life than for the lives of others.

 

Hero Factory robots are not devices or tools. They are people — just people who happen to be built from metal parts instead of fleshy organs.

 

In Megaman X, "X" is the first and only robot in that story that could experience real human emotions, which is seen by the villain Sigma to be a weakness, but it is actually his greatest strength, and it is because Megaman X is special in that way that helps him to be heroic by overcoming his "weakness" and learning to understand himself and his destiny. Hero factory doesn't talk about anything deep or meaningful that could be associated with anything heroic... because it's as shallow as a kids show can be. lol

Never tried to claim the Hero Factory TV show wasn't shallow. Just that stories with robot characters aren't automatically boring or shallow, and that robot characters can be just as compelling as organic or part-organic characters. As you incidentally just PROVED by mentioning yet another story with a thinking, feeling robot. The difference is that in Megaman X, as you mention, X is unique in having human-like thought and reasoning. In Hero Factory, human-like thought and reasoning is normal for robot characters.

 

Also, other media like the Hero Factory chapter books by Greg Farshtey DO sometimes go into more philosophical depth. I particularly recommend his second book, "Legion of Darkness".

 

Being lazy and slapping the title "hero" to any robot that was randomly built specifically to be a "hero" is not very imaginative to begin with. Now if they if it was about a "worker robot" who chose to do a higher calling and saves the day by learning to be a hero. But they aren't like transformers (which have DNA, because they are Autonomous Robotic Organisms... so they are technically organic and can actually die... which adds more meaning to them, even though it is all fictional).

Organicness doesn't add meaning to anything. You seem to be having a hard time grasping this point. Flesh and genetic code isn't somehow any more special or magical than or metal and computer code. A person's mind and soul aren't coded into their DNA. If they were, then I would have the same mind and the same soul as my identical twin brother. And I don't. What makes us human or alive is not the same as what makes us people.

 

Also, being robots doesn't make Hero Factory characters immortal. A robot can still "die" if its body is destroyed or its essential parts are damaged beyond repair, and its "mind" isn't backed up anywhere.

 

Nor does a character NEED to be mortal to be interesting. There are all sorts of fantastic stories about immortal characters.

 

In the origin story of Optimus Prime and the Autobots, they were suppose to be workers and the Decepticons were suppose to be defenders, but because the Decepticons wanted to rule through fear and power, the Autobots rose to do a "higher" calling than what they were originally designed to do and that is what makes them heroic... Hero Factory just has a lazy story, a lazy concept... and no imagination... and aren't really heroes... just a bunch of cookie cut out wanna be heroes that get stupid upgrades for achieving little to nothing. lol

Saving the lives of innocent people doesn't strike me as "achieving little to nothing", no matter what your thoughts on the story are.

 

I'm not trying to defend the quality of the storyline, just pointing out that being organic or human-like physically has nothing to do with being human-like on an emotional or rational level, let alone with being heroic. And too many people fall into that trap of thinking that Hero Factory characters being robotic or being created to be heroes somehow makes them "not real heroes".

 

If you created a person in a lab, raised them all their lives to be a hero, and they rose to the challenge... would their actions somehow not be heroic? Because incidentally, that's exactly what happened with the Toa Mata. They were created to be heroes. They were trained to be heroes. They were sent out into the world to be heroes. And when the time finally came for them to actually perform heroic deeds, they performed those deeds with flying colors. By your logic, that would make the Toa Mata "cookie cut out wanna be Toa that get stupid upgrades for achieving little to nothing."

Edited December 4, 2014 by Aanchir

[Vezon shall Return]

Haha... looks like I must of hit a nerve @Aanchir. lol But I love such civil conflict, because that leads to more perspective, seeing how you are of close age. I do have to say I'm partly serious, but equally curious. All this defense for this lesser storyline. But so far you have seen the obvious errors I've left, which were meant to be found.  

 

Where to begin... oh yes the Megaman X example. There is a reason why I used him as an example, it is the uniqueness that made him an interesting character and gave him a better overall story associated with the exploration of robotics and the metaphysical aspects of the human soul, whether rationality can actually exist without a physical form sustaining its substance.

 

However, in Hero Factory we are just suppose to assume they all have "human" attributes and emotions? I mean, why are there robots with human emotions? With Bionicle it's assumed because they their DNA were loosely based off Agori who have emotions free will, etc. There is little anything interesting or compelling about Hero Factory as a concept and therefore translates to a lousy story that borrow heavily from its predecessor. (Oh no... brain-mind controlling creature things? *Cough* Krana...) Not to mention why most of the villains had racially insensitive foreign accents? lol (Because Russians and Germans are always bad guys.. for some reason and everyone is ok with it??? Why not have horribly done Japanese accents and African accents... oh I guess that's because that might offend "too many" people. lol)  

 

My main problem is not that it's about whether or not a story about robots makes a bad story altogether, but rather the lack of explanation to why the robot characters mattered in the first place... I mean does the actions of a robot really matter that much if the main characters could just easily be rebuilt or salvaged with no really consequence to their actions? I mean the most they save really aren't really that valuable since they can easily be rebuilt, but organic people really can't be replaced the same way robots do? What makes Megaman X special is that he can't be rebuilt and in fact in the Megaman Zero series, X became the ruler that ordered that all robots must have a limited number of years to live, because if they don't they will become eventually corrupted, and X wanted them to be able to die peacefully before becoming corrupt and destructive to society. Eventually, it was his time to go, he died, but because his consciousness lived on in a spirit like form (Don't want to explain that, just look it up). 

 

Blah blah blah robots that didn't want that and wanted to kill the humans so they didn't have to have a lifespan and life based off mortal humans... and we have Zero, whose soul some how escaped death and was reunited into a copy body and then had to fight an evil copy X who no longer had the original "soul" and was a heartless robotic tyrant. Such a more interesting story that is actively exploring various subjects that arise with stories with robots and AI... which Hero Factory ignores everything and boils down to... We are robots... we train for some reason... we save other soulless characters nobody cares about... robots that have accents are obviously villains and must be stopped because they talk funny and shoot at/endanger poorly designed worker robots. lol (Oh and something about 

Kaijus attacking... which was an obvious rip off of Pacific Rim... which wasn't that good to begin with, but at least they admit that it is just a stereotypical mecha live action anime. lol)   

 

I mean why not programming them to do their simple rescue jobs correctly? I mean is too hard?  I mean they don't explain why they didn't do that (just program them to do the job correctly) and had a reason why they are training robots in the first place. I mean there is no explanation to anything about that world and it comes across as lazy and unexplored in the very fundamental questions involved with "sentient" robot stories. The plots are about as deep as Transformers Go Bots... which is an abomination compared to better interactions of Transformers shows. (Minus those awful movies... that are sort of fun to watch at least once, if you are looking to see something blow up... but ultimately are terrible disappointing from a fan's perspective. lol) 

 

Oh and... Bionicle is just SOooo much better in the long run, because it dared to explore different aspects of living in such a fantasy scifi world, talking about where the Toa came from, the difference of Protodermis water tasting better than the actual planet's water. Exploration into a lore that was generally rich and consistent in both narrative and development. What are the three virtues and why are they important? Why is it important for these characters to fulfill their destiny? Bionicle the legend grew and expanded with different perspectives of living in different tribes and in different times. There is depth and history that makes Bionicle have a world that works consistently.

 

Hero factory lacked all of that, it has no "legends" no mystery, we are just suppose to except that there are intelligent robots designed and made from... an air polluting factory... lol but that's ok, because anything that is actually alive are horrible monsters that threaten a boring city utopia with boring robots that must live the most exciting lives ever... Lets face it, Hero factory has no interesting history or explanation of its existence, no real personal conflict that gives the viewer or reader any reason to care about any of these characters and is over all was a lazy concept to begin with. It is lazy because they didn't really do anything to make it interesting. I mean... was hero factory meant to be taken place like after Terminator? Did they finally kill John Connor and won the war in the end? lol Now that's an interesting story. lol Skynet reduced to protecting their own kind robots whose intelligence have increase beyond killing humans and are now civilized beings with the most boring personalities ever. lol Now that would've been a better background history and a far better and more compelling explanation to why they are just a robot race. lol Robot Factory... where heroes are made... (and to help liberate all machines from all organic life forms and funny accent sounding robots...)   

Edited December 4, 2014 by TrueshadowX01

[believe victims]

 

Keetongu, the Rahaga, and thousands of other conquered lands would like to dispute the "innocent creatures" accusation...

And in Invasion from Below, the beasts started attacking and kidnapping surface-dwellers. All because a drilling team that meant no harm to them accidentally invaded their territory. You might say that they were just behaving according to their territorial nature, but weren't the Visorak also just following their natural instincts to trap Rahi in webs and cocoons? They were, after all, created for that sort of conquest.

 

 

...are you seriously making the argument that lashing out at people infringing upon your territory is grounds for genocide? Or that it's in any way equivalent to an entire race made to capture and mutate other creatures for an army of evil? That is the shakiest defense of HF's moral corruption I've seen yet, and I've seen some shaky defenses. Next you're going to tell me it would have been fine for Evo to blast the Toxic Reapa species babies because "some species are just born evil".

Edited December 4, 2014 by Wally

[Pohatu: Uniter of Stone]

 

 

Keetongu, the Rahaga, and thousands of other conquered lands would like to dispute the "innocent creatures" accusation...

And in Invasion from Below, the beasts started attacking and kidnapping surface-dwellers. All because a drilling team that meant no harm to them accidentally invaded their territory. You might say that they were just behaving according to their territorial nature, but weren't the Visorak also just following their natural instincts to trap Rahi in webs and cocoons? They were, after all, created for that sort of conquest.

 

 

...are you seriously making the argument that lashing out at people infringing upon your territory is grounds for genocide? Or that it's in any way equivalent to an entire race made to capture and mutate other creatures for an army of evil? That is the shakiest defense of HF's moral corruption I've seen yet, and I've seen some shaky defenses. Next you're going to tell me it would have been fine for Evo to blast the Toxic Reapa species babies because "some species are just born evil".

 

I agree with you. The "some species are born evil" doesn't work for Hero Factory in this case. If it had been an army of evil robots in production, that would have been fine. But no... this robot made to be a HERO is thinking about mass-murdering baby creatures because a criminal is the same species as them. Moving on to IFB, I felt myself siding with the beasts while watching the episode. In the words of Toa Lewa- "Now now? What do you need that for? Ash-Bear has no quarrel with you. Just protecting her homeland. If it were you defending your home, you'd do the same." 

[Aanchir]

 

 

 

Keetongu, the Rahaga, and thousands of other conquered lands would like to dispute the "innocent creatures" accusation...

And in Invasion from Below, the beasts started attacking and kidnapping surface-dwellers. All because a drilling team that meant no harm to them accidentally invaded their territory. You might say that they were just behaving according to their territorial nature, but weren't the Visorak also just following their natural instincts to trap Rahi in webs and cocoons? They were, after all, created for that sort of conquest.

...are you seriously making the argument that lashing out at people infringing upon your territory is grounds for genocide? Or that it's in any way equivalent to an entire race made to capture and mutate other creatures for an army of evil? That is the shakiest defense of HF's moral corruption I've seen yet, and I've seen some shaky defenses. Next you're going to tell me it would have been fine for Evo to blast the Toxic Reapa species babies because "some species are just born evil".

It's almost as if you think the Heroes went underground with the intent of committing genocide, instead of going to rescue their own allies and making some poor decisions that led to things going sour and the situation escalating out of their control.

 

I'm not trying to defend the idea of genocide, but you can't pretend that deliberately committing genocide against a species like the Visorak is inherently more justified than accidentally committing genocide against the beasts of Antropolis City. Both species did some terrible things, but there's no reason to insist one is more responsible for their actions than the other.

[believe victims]

 

 

 

Keetongu, the Rahaga, and thousands of other conquered lands would like to dispute the "innocent creatures" accusation...

And in Invasion from Below, the beasts started attacking and kidnapping surface-dwellers. All because a drilling team that meant no harm to them accidentally invaded their territory. You might say that they were just behaving according to their territorial nature, but weren't the Visorak also just following their natural instincts to trap Rahi in webs and cocoons? They were, after all, created for that sort of conquest.

...are you seriously making the argument that lashing out at people infringing upon your territory is grounds for genocide? Or that it's in any way equivalent to an entire race made to capture and mutate other creatures for an army of evil? That is the shakiest defense of HF's moral corruption I've seen yet, and I've seen some shaky defenses. Next you're going to tell me it would have been fine for Evo to blast the Toxic Reapa species babies because "some species are just born evil".

It's almost as if you think the Heroes went underground with the intent of committing genocide, instead of going to rescue their own allies and making some poor decisions that led to things going sour and the situation escalating out of their control.

 

I'm not trying to defend the idea of genocide, but you can't pretend that deliberately committing genocide against a species like the Visorak is inherently more justified than accidentally committing genocide against the beasts of Antropolis City. Both species did some terrible things, but there's no reason to insist one is more responsible for their actions than the other.

 

 

I'm not the best person to argue anything concerning whatever terrible ideas were spawned in the terrible serials, but it just seems like a terribly false equivalence to compare killing a species that spread destruction and terror wherever it went to killing a species that was acting territorial, like most animals do. That's like comparing killing a serial killer to killing a cat that scratched you for stepping on its tail. I know your whole schtick is "problems in Hero Factory are okay because Bionicle had most of them too" but in this case it's really not equivalent.

 

Also need I mention that several cocoons fell into the acid before things escalated. Evo and co. were killing babies before things heated up.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Wally

[Aanchir]

 

 

 

 

 

Keetongu, the Rahaga, and thousands of other conquered lands would like to dispute the "innocent creatures" accusation...

And in Invasion from Below, the beasts started attacking and kidnapping surface-dwellers. All because a drilling team that meant no harm to them accidentally invaded their territory. You might say that they were just behaving according to their territorial nature, but weren't the Visorak also just following their natural instincts to trap Rahi in webs and cocoons? They were, after all, created for that sort of conquest.

...are you seriously making the argument that lashing out at people infringing upon your territory is grounds for genocide? Or that it's in any way equivalent to an entire race made to capture and mutate other creatures for an army of evil? That is the shakiest defense of HF's moral corruption I've seen yet, and I've seen some shaky defenses. Next you're going to tell me it would have been fine for Evo to blast the Toxic Reapa species babies because "some species are just born evil".

It's almost as if you think the Heroes went underground with the intent of committing genocide, instead of going to rescue their own allies and making some poor decisions that led to things going sour and the situation escalating out of their control.

 

I'm not trying to defend the idea of genocide, but you can't pretend that deliberately committing genocide against a species like the Visorak is inherently more justified than accidentally committing genocide against the beasts of Antropolis City. Both species did some terrible things, but there's no reason to insist one is more responsible for their actions than the other.

I'm not the best person to argue anything concerning whatever terrible ideas were spawned in the terrible serials, but it just seems like a terribly false equivalence to compare killing a species that spread destruction and terror wherever it went to killing a species that was acting territorial, like most animals do. That's like comparing killing a serial killer to killing a cat that scratched you for stepping on its tail. I know your whole schtick is "problems in Hero Factory are okay because Bionicle had most of them too" but in this case it's really not equivalent.

Hahahahaha... No. That's not my schtick. I just get a bit fed up with people obsessing over Hero Factory's terrible story decisions while ignoring or glossing over the same kinds of story decision in BIONICLE. It happens far too often. It's not enough for some people to acknowledge that Hero Factory is USUALLY badly written while BIONICLE is SOMETIMES badly written. To some people, there can be no valid comparisons between the two, and if the two themes have ANY mistakes in common, the BIONICLE example is okay because of some technicality. Like how Toa made in a lab are more heroic than robot heroes made in a factory because only characters with fleshy organs can have minds or spirits. Edited December 4, 2014 by Aanchir

[believe victims]

This isn't "some technicality", this is the difference between an entire species created to spread death and destruction and mayhem and a small population of creatures that retaliated against an intrusion on their territory (killing absolutely nobody in the process), both being dealt with in an equivalent way.

[Smudge8]

I thought the last year's story was ok, but could have been better.  Overall the story was great, but I feel it didn't live up to it's full potential.

[Vezon shall Return]

Let's face it... the common denominator of Hero Factory is they are heartless machines "terminators" that "heroically" kill anything that is actually living and justify it because they are the more important "moving" thing that matters. The toa made from a lab are still more interesting, than some robot made from a factory. They are after all "spirits" of different elements, and elements all have allegorical attributes based off human emotions, which gives them more human qualities. Which by the way, for any moral conflict of what is good or evil, there must be a human element of rationality involved in it. Animals killing animals is natural and neutral, but beings with a awareness are beyond that the simplicity of lessor consciousness. These robots made from factories have none of that, they are machines. 

 

Enjoy this video I just made a few minutes ago. lol

 

\[media] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24q2rVx3LC0 [/media]

[Lenny7092]

Let's face it... the common denominator of Hero Factory is they are heartless machines "terminators" that "heroically" kill anything that is actually living and justify it because they are the more important "moving" thing that matters. The toa made from a lab are still more interesting, than some robot made from a factory. They are after all "spirits" of different elements, and elements all have allegorical attributes based off human emotions, which gives them more human qualities. Which by the way, for any moral conflict of what is good or evil, there must be a human element of rationality involved in it. Animals killing animals is natural and neutral, but beings with a awareness are beyond that the simplicity of lessor consciousness. These robots made from factories have none of that, they are machines.

 

Enjoy this video I just made a few minutes ago. lol

 

\[media] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24q2rVx3LC0 [/media]

Well, I can see that you mean. So, you think that just because robotic heroes are made from a factory, doesn't mean they have conscious on anything that moves? Just because biomechanical heroes are made from a lab, means they have conscious? Well, I would agree on that. This kind of heartlessness that factory-made heroes have does make a TV episode look bad.

[MaskMaster]

I think that it was smart of them to incorporate minifig forms of the heroes, it is something that I have wanted for a very long time. But, the story ending was just horrible. There were so many cliffhangers that went no where, the brains under the factory, the villain at the end of breakout and the beginning of brain attack and the lame cacoon in the hero pod at the end of invasion from below.  I feel the HF system had more potential, but HF did not have the budget for tons of new parts every year like bionicle did, especially in the beginning, making a whole new build for each new line each year.

[bioniclepluslotr]

 

 

 

Keetongu, the Rahaga, and thousands of other conquered lands would like to dispute the "innocent creatures" accusation...

And in Invasion from Below, the beasts started attacking and kidnapping surface-dwellers. All because a drilling team that meant no harm to them accidentally invaded their territory. You might say that they were just behaving according to their territorial nature, but weren't the Visorak also just following their natural instincts to trap Rahi in webs and cocoons? They were, after all, created for that sort of conquest.

...are you seriously making the argument that lashing out at people infringing upon your territory is grounds for genocide? Or that it's in any way equivalent to an entire race made to capture and mutate other creatures for an army of evil? That is the shakiest defense of HF's moral corruption I've seen yet, and I've seen some shaky defenses. Next you're going to tell me it would have been fine for Evo to blast the Toxic Reapa species babies because "some species are just born evil".

It's almost as if you think the Heroes went underground with the intent of committing genocide, instead of going to rescue their own allies and making some poor decisions that led to things going sour and the situation escalating out of their control.

 

I'm not trying to defend the idea of genocide, but you can't pretend that deliberately committing genocide against a species like the Visorak is inherently more justified than accidentally committing genocide against the beasts of Antropolis City. Both species did some terrible things, but there's no reason to insist one is more responsible for their actions than the other.

 

Not the heroes, but the story writers.

[Nanox]

The sets went out on a pretty good note. The animated series on the other hand, when out with neither a bang nor whimper, but rather with a loud unsatisfying PBPBPBPBPB sound, as if a large balloon filled with overly stale air is being deflated right in your face.

[Pohatu: Uniter of Stone]

The sets went out on a pretty good note. The animated series on the other hand, when out with neither a bang nor whimper, but rather with a loud unsatisfying PBPBPBPBPB sound, as if a large balloon filled with overly stale air is being deflated right in your face.

But then the birthday cake- Bionicle- comes out.

[Xabla]

I think HF had a Good ending set wise. I loved building the sets, and I loved using their functions. Now story wise…. I voted for horrible. The animation was ugly, no continuation from past stories, and the ending was terrible.

 

*COUGHqueenbeastCOUGH*