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Redundancy for Certain Elements?


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Well when else would it come up? Actually that's a common fallacy I've noticed in a lot of discussions. For example, I will often think of a possible question to an issue, and since I'm being calmly curious, go on to think of the answer, but figure it's too obvious to need mentioning. But at some point, somebody who wants it to be a problem may bring it up, and then they assume that because the answer is only then brought to their attention in reply, that somehow proves it must be a bad answer. Actually even if I hadn't thought of it, that wouldn't make sense (doesn't matter how the subject gets brought to our attention, just whether the answers we find make sense). But it's often frustrated me that they seem completely unaware that it's possible to think of the issue without a negative attitude about it and think of the answer easily. And once they start the debate, they seem to think that locks the answer for all time into being "just thought up to get out of the problem".

 

We could call it the Bad Timing fallacy, if you like. :P

 

(It seems to be a subdivision of a fallacy called Bulverism; trying to identify how somebody thought of something to make it seem like that somehow means they didn't think clearly. Which is possible, but not a reliable assumption.)

 

 

And in your case, the basic, obvious answer that the story team obviously had in mind has already been given to you -- it's a fictional universe. We've gone over in excruciating detail why this is logical. (Even scientifically plausible, but that isn't even neccessary; we don't need to be told it's a universe with potentially different physics if we just accept that it's a science fantasy story; fantasy does this all the time without people whining about it. Maybe that happens because the fusion of the two genres is unusual and you're just not used to it? :shrugs: But then, it's been a basic part of Bionicle for going on 15 years now... I'd kinda think that was enough time. :P)

Edited by bonesiii

The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive)Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants

My Bionicle Fanfiction  (Google Drive folder, eventually planned to have PDFs of all of it)

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Well, I agree, but that requires a lot of fancy sci-fi explanations little kids didn't need to know. :P

The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive)Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants

My Bionicle Fanfiction  (Google Drive folder, eventually planned to have PDFs of all of it)

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The only reason I bring it up is because I'd imagine if we created a robot that fires plasma out of their hands, it would not function nearly the same as we have seen it in Bionicle. For many other substances, real world physics can be applied, but this kind of plasma is kind of a sci-fi-exclusive thing.

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The only reason I bring it up is because I'd imagine if we created a robot that fires plasma out of their hands, it would not function nearly the same as we have seen it in Bionicle. For many other substances, real world physics can be applied, but this kind of plasma is kind of a sci-fi-exclusive thing.

 

okay yeah, that's true. unrealistic expectations for plasma is a very common thing, much like our perception of, say, the boomerang.

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Okay, easy way to figure out whether or not the main reason for this thread, the combing of certain elements, like ice and water or earth and stone. It's a concept by brother introduced to me called physical or conceptual magic. Basically, physical magic is magic defined by the laws of physics while conceptual magic is more powers based on an idea. A good example is a lightning bolt, in order to make a visible bolt of lightning that can go about 10m with physical magic, it would have to have many millions of volts and would kill anyone instantaneously that it hit. On the other hand, conceptual magic could make a visible bolt of lightning that could stun a person or only mildly hurt them.

 

So how does this relate to Bionicle elements? Well, for my example we'll need to create a hypothetical element of crystal and compare it with rock and stone:

In conceptual magic, Toa of Earth or Stone would have the powers as defined in universe, manipulating particles of the ground of different size. A toa of crystal would probably have powers based off of jewels and crystals found in the ground and probably glass due to it's association with crystals. They can't control ice, as that has it's own element, or rocks and stone, as they are their own elements.

 

With Physical magic, there is no real difference between Earth and Stone, and the elements would become one, they could probably control clay as well. Crystal would however be able to control gemstones, crystals, ice (as it is a crystal form of water) and most forms of earth minerals (since a rock is scientifically defined as a collection of crystal minerals that are bound together to form a solid mixture) barring clay and magma. They could not control glass, even natural glass like obsidian as that is an amorphous solid and not a crystal.

 

So do people prefer conceptual, or physical elemental powers? The first would keep stone and earth as difference elements, the later would fuse them into one.

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Considering that all elements in the MU are caused by Elemental Energy, I think conceptual magic, as you put it, is the type we have here. It also fits how elements are 'weaker' than expected, unless released as a Nova Burst. However, it does call into question why a Toa Nui cannot contain its own power, and Krakha almost died from combining all six Toa Metru. Perhaps elemental energy is volatile if not properly contained.

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:r: :e: :g: :i: :t: :n: :u: :i:

Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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