Beware The Swarm

[Kopekemaster]

I realize the answer/discussion of this will very possibly be quite similar to that of the "how did the Bionicle symbol exist in the MU" question, but on the off chance there is a real answer or whatnot, I'll ask it anyway.

 

How did "Beware the Swarm" get written on things before the Bohrok were released? (Or was this just a not-entirely-canon MNOG thing?)  I doubt that it would've been put there by the GSR or GBs or anything, since the Bohrok were technically "good" (or maybe lawful neutral? or something? at least, they weren't bad).

 

 

[Makaru]

"Beware the Swarm" was a series of foreshadowing used entirely by MNOLG prior to the official promotional material prior to 2002. I do not recall any teasers outside of MNOLG.

 

How that sign was made or who made the stone carvings on Ihu was never fully established before it was retconned like everything interesting in MNOLG.

 

I'm not bitter. You're bitter.

Edited November 18, 2014 by Makaru

[Click]

Could have been Makuta messing with them (can't you picture a Turahk carving it in while cackling? ), or the Turaga, fearing Makuta's interference, put them up early on.

 

I think the most likely reason (assuming it is canon) is it was written by the Matoran. They had prophesies of the Bohrok, and I recall there was one not far from the Ko-Koro Wall of History. It could be a warning for the general population, though they didn't entirely understand it themselves.

[Jacks]

Well, we know Takua had a vision of that phrase and Bohrok symbol after passing out in the Drifts. Now, this could be attributed to him having seen the phrase "Beware the Swarm" carved on the statue, and the boulder in Le-Wahi, except for the fact that none of those carvings included the symbol. That makes me inclined to believe there's more to it.

 

My guess is that the vision is a programming feature of the Matoran and the GSR -- inhabitants of the GSR weren't meant to leave it, and it would would be fatal for anyone to be on the outside if Mata Nui decided it was time to take off again. So multiple Matoran were probably seeing this vision over the years and carving the phrase in various places. The fact that the vision did not affect every single Matoran on the island could be a result of the damage to the GSR.

 

Kapura'd x2

Edited November 18, 2014 by Jacks

[fishers64]

It's possible that Nuju or even the Great Beings themselves programmed it into the camoflage system (putting it on Mount Ihu was probably a system glitch).

[Kopekemaster]

 

I'm not bitter. You're bitter.

wat?

 

 

It's possible that Nuju or even the Great Beings themselves programmed it into the camoflage system (putting it on Mount Ihu was probably a system glitch).

Why would they have done that, though?

[bonesiii]

Anything showing foreknowledge of future events plus being hidden on that island screams "Turaga Vakama" to me.

[Regitnui]

I can believed it's some sort of inbuilt warning instinct matoran would get if outside the robot for long enough. Perhaps towards the beginning of the story, 2001, matoran had started to get the "Return to Interior habitat now!" warnings as visions or dreams, but couldn't interpret them correctly, leading to the graffiti.

[Pomegranate]

Suddenly Mata Nui is more mysterious than the island from LOST

 

If nothing else, it could have been a coincidence; a warning written in reference to sone regular rahi that caused a ruckus sometime in the 1000 years before the Toa were summoned.

[Regitnui]

What were those locust-like rahi that would swarm over Metru Nui? Perhaps they made it to Mata Nui.

[Kopekemaster]

I can believed it's some sort of inbuilt warning instinct matoran would get if outside the robot for long enough. Perhaps towards the beginning of the story, 2001, matoran had started to get the "Return to Interior habitat now!" warnings as visions or dreams, but couldn't interpret them correctly, leading to the graffiti.

That makes sense.

[fishers64]

 

I'm not bitter. You're bitter.

wat?

 

 

It's possible that Nuju or even the Great Beings themselves programmed it into the camoflage system (putting it on Mount Ihu was probably a system glitch).

Why would they have done that, though?

 

To stop curious Matoran from wandering were they shouldn't go.

 

Anything showing foreknowledge of future events plus being hidden on that island screams "Turaga Vakama" to me.

Carving on stone says Po-Matoran, location says Ko-Matoran, though. Three Turaga had a meeting and placed yonder stone on Mt. Ihu?

[Takhamavahu]

The matoran had bohro in their legends for years. They and the turaga must have put that stuff up long ago around the island where the found evidence of the bohrok.

[bonesiii]

Carving on stone says Po-Matoran, location says Ko-Matoran, though. Three Turaga had a meeting and placed yonder stone on Mt. Ihu?

Why only three? Normal practice was for all six Turaga to have occasional meetings, plus (usually) Matoro attending to translate. And incidentally, Matoro is known to travel through that area... perhaps he's the one that carved it... but that's beside the point; doesn't really matter who carved it to this theory.

 

I'm just saying, why appeal to all these complex alternative theories as to how the carving got there, when we already have the island full of beings who carve all the time... and while most of them wouldn't have known of this, we do know that six of them already knew of the Bohrok, and had a tendency to hide things, and make cryptic clues and warnings...

 

 

BTW, I wasn't going to comment to this, but since it got five likes so far, to Makaru's post... as far as I know, nothing about this example was ever retconned. No idea where that's coming from...

[flynn58]

Maybe the easy retcon is to just say the "swarm" was just 2001 Rahi, not the Bohrok?

[Click]

What were those locust-like rahi that would swarm over Metru Nui? Perhaps they made it to Mata Nui.

 

Lohrak, perhaps? What would that have to do with it?

 

 

Carving on stone says Po-Matoran, location says Ko-Matoran, though. Three Turaga had a meeting and placed yonder stone on Mt. Ihu?

 

 

Although you do get to the Drifts by passing through the Wall of Prophesy, a massive wall carved by Ko-Matoran scholars.

 

I like the idea about the warning system. Vakama could have known the Bohrok would be awakened, but how would it help anyone if he got the other Turaga to place vague messages around the island? It adds a lot more mystery if some crazy Matoran gets lost in the Drifts, and as their final words carves the message from their visions into a rock. It just sounds cool, and I think it fits more with the story.

[bonesiii]

Maybe the easy retcon is to just say the "swarm" was just 2001 Rahi, not the Bohrok?

I don't see why we would want such a thing. It was crystal clear that it referred to Bohrok, and there's no reason for it to be retconned.

 

Vakama could have known the Bohrok would be awakened, but how would it help anyone if he got the other Turaga to place vague messages around the island?

Once they awoke, "beware" would become relevant for obvious reasons. It would sink in especially as they'd realize those mysterious warnings clearly meant these things, like how an accurate weather forecast tends to be given more respect than somebody commenting on the bad weather they're already experiencing.

[Sir Kohran]

Anything showing foreknowledge of future events plus being hidden on that island screams "Turaga Vakama" to me.

 

If he was behind it, isn't it more likely that the warnings would be in Ta-Wahi?

 

I'm just saying, why appeal to all these complex alternative theories as to how the carving got there, when we already have the island full of beings who carve all the time... and while most of them wouldn't have known of this, we do know that six of them already knew of the Bohrok, and had a tendency to hide things, and make cryptic clues and warnings...

 

But why would they put clues/warnings out in the middle of nowhere where almost no-one would find them?

 

It adds a lot more mystery if some crazy Matoran gets lost in the Drifts, and as their final words carves the message from their visions into a rock.

 

This would require a dead Matoran; I think it's been established that no Matoran died in the thousand year stay on Mata Nui.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Sir Kohran

[bonesiii]

If he was behind it, isn't it more likely that the warnings would be in Ta-Wahi?

We don't know that there weren't some there too, but why just there?

 

Not sure how you would gauge likelihood there. Maybe it's more likely to be where the one Matoran who attends their meetings likes to hang out. Or perhaps to be one in every Wahi; there was one in Le, too, after all.

 

But why would they put clues/warnings out in the middle of nowhere where almost no-one would find them?

I don't think the one in Le was, was it? I think it was very near Le-Koro, along a road that was later connected to the tunnel from Onu-Wahi. And the one in Ko was probably near that exit from the village, though admittedly that one is more out there. (Though also easier to spot.)

[Kopekemaster]

 

To stop curious Matoran from wandering were they shouldn't go.

I can see that happening. That begs the question, though, why were the messages only written in a few places (that we saw, at least)? I mean, the entire island was going to be razed by Bohrok, so what made those specific places more of a "danger area" than others?

[bonesiii]

what made those specific places more of a "danger area" than others?

Who says they were?

[Jacks]

 

what made those specific places more of a "danger area" than others?

Who says they were?

 

They might have been. We know there was one Bohrok nest directly below Ko-Wahi -- it could very well have been in that region of the Drifts. Perhaps there some such carving near all the major nest tunnels?

[Sir Kohran]

 

If he was behind it, isn't it more likely that the warnings would be in Ta-Wahi?

We don't know that there weren't some there too, but why just there?

 

Not sure how you would gauge likelihood there. 

 

If Vakama's responsible for the warnings, wouldn't they probably be in the area he lives in? That being Ta-Wahi.

 

 

But why would they put clues/warnings out in the middle of nowhere where almost no-one would find them?

I don't think the one in Le was, was it? I think it was very near Le-Koro, along a road that was later connected to the tunnel from Onu-Wahi. And the one in Ko was probably near that exit from the village, though admittedly that one is more out there. (Though also easier to spot.)

 

The warning in Ko-Wahi is way out in the drifts, an area that's pretty far from the village and only accessible from there by a somewhat secret door. Takua is also advised that it's a dangerous area even for the Ko-Matoran.

 

The one in Le-Wahi is indeed just by the road, though that might have been due to the lack of any other place in this 'level' to put it. One point of interest is that it appears to be written on the same rock Taipu is snatched from by the Nui Rama.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Sir Kohran

[fishers64]

 

To stop curious Matoran from wandering were they shouldn't go.

I can see that happening. That begs the question, though, why were the messages only written in a few places (that we saw, at least)? I mean, the entire island was going to be razed by Bohrok, so what made those specific places more of a "danger area" than others?

 

Perhaps the ginormous cliff nearby had something to do with it.

 

*Bohrok back Matoran against cliff*

 

Matoran: Maybe I should have paid attention to the "Beware the Swarm" sign a while back. That might have been helpful.

[Click]

It adds a lot more mystery if some crazy Matoran gets lost in the Drifts, and as their final words carves the message from their visions into a rock.

This would require a dead Matoran; I think it's been established that no Matoran died in the thousand year stay on Mata Nui.

You just have to take the fun out of everything.

 

So, maybe not the last words, but they could have gotten lost in the Drifts or the Le-Koro forests and carved the warnings.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Click

[Pohatu: Uniter of Stone]

The reason was foreshadowing. I don't think there was meant to be an in-story explanation, except maybe the Turaga wrote it to give further evidence of the mysteries of Mata Nui

[Rahkshi Lalonde]

But jala said he lost some matoran on the mountain, i'm pretty sure they died? :0

[Regitnui]

Or they were simply lost. They went up onto Mount Ihu, the icy domain of the Ko-Matoran. Likely frozen in the ice, they were, rather than 'killed'

[Sir Kohran]

But jala said he lost some matoran on the mountain, i'm pretty sure they died? :0

 

The final fate of the Matoran at North March is never made clear. Kopeke simply says "I fear they will not return."

 

I think bonesiii once theorised that the Ta-Matoran that Jala shows up with at the Kini-Nui battle are meant to be the missing ones returned, but that's never specified either.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Sir Kohran

[bonesiii]

 

 

They might have been. We know there was one Bohrok nest directly below Ko-Wahi -- it could very well have been in that region of the Drifts. Perhaps there some such carving near all the major nest tunnels?

Could be... or just ones the Toa Metru / Turaga had encountered. (As Toa they didn't have a lot of time for that, but as Turaga their Kraata-hunting adventures over a thousand years probably would uncover many -- but this assumes they were all open to discover. I suspect most Bohrok vents took some cleaning to open up as the camouflage was made by EP pouring over a surface; seems likely to be chaotic... and the Bohrok are designed to clean so yeah.)

Or maybe their proximity to entrances to the villages was the point... Or maybe location was irrelevant (the whole island would be threatened by them after all).

 

If Vakama's responsible for the warnings, wouldn't they probably be in the area he lives in? That being Ta-Wahi.

But why? How do you get to "probably" there?

I see no reason off the bat to assume so... and probably some evidence against it. First, he wasn't really advertising his future-sight abilities. He'd always had issues with it, and he pretended he used his sacred fire for it for the villagers' sake. Second, the warnings aren't relevant only to his villagers; are you suggesting he would put them as a higher priority? And more importantly, the Wall of Prophecy almost certainly had influence from his insight on it and was in Ko-Koro.

But anyways, location wasn't my point to begin with -- other than the island in general. I think you guys are probably making too much of location and missing the point that if we're looking for explanations of who carved it, Ockham's Razor suggests Matoran/Turaga carving it, under orders from the elders who we already know were aware of the danger, is the most likely option. This shouldn't be skipped over to go for more outlandish (though possible) options.

Right?

 

The warning in Ko-Wahi is way out in the drifts

We don't know that it was "way out." It was near enough that Matoro could plant enough of those red flags to lead right past it on his way to that camping spot of his. And I don't recall a huge amount of those flags clicking to it. Plus, doesn't it show up after you get lost or something? It could be right next to the entrance practically.

But again, why is this a problem anyways?

 

an area that's pretty far from the village and only accessible from there by a somewhat secret door. Takua is also advised that it's a dangerous area even for the Ko-Matoran.

But is that a problem? Why would it be? The fact is somebody carved it and put it there, and somebody is known to pass by it all the time. Somebody directly tied to Vakama, who probably knew about it. (And even if a Turaga carved it, Nuju for example could easily do this.)

If anything, this probably makes it much more effective. Think about it even just as a fan. Would it feel so important and mysterious to you if it was a placard in the middle of the village(s?) with Turaga Vakama's signature? It would feel somewhat important, and you could make a case, but only if Vakama wanted to advertise that he was the source or something like that. I think making it more of an anomaly increases the sense of danger, by emphasizing the unknown. It may even be more memorable that way, at least for Takua (who would end up most needing to be careful of them at a time when nobody was around to warn him otherwise).

 

But jala said he lost some matoran on the mountain, i'm pretty sure they died? :0

Sigh... this myth just won't die! :[

I really should make that FAQ topic and include this, sometime. I've written up long explanations of this, but haven't bothered to keep a copy/link anyplace handy (silly me... I keep thinking it'll go away lol). Short answer is: No, the game clearly implies they were thawed and joined the final battle.

 

Likely frozen in the ice

Not just likely; Kopeke clearly says so (and he was too, BTW). I really don't get how people miss this. (Sorry, pet peeve. I should give that pet away sometime, or sell it for a FAQ, huh?)

[Rahkshi Lalonde]

I dunno, not gonna derail the topic, but i am gonna say it seems pretty unlikely absolutely no matoran ever ever died. especially when one of bionicle's favorite things to do is say how deadly it's rahi are. :0

 

(as for the "Beware" message, i'm p sure it's supposed to be a spooky foreboding message, likely from some other matoran. [which only doesn't work because somehow we're expected to believe nobody dies on mata-nui...])

[bonesiii]

it seems pretty unlikely absolutely no matoran ever ever died.

Well, it's certainly true that there were possible causes of death there, but I don't think it's likely, for several reasons:

 

1) The big one -- Makuta didn't want them dead. Even needed them alive.

 

2) Matoran live vast amounts of time, apparently easily heal most wounds, Takua is still alive and he's the very oldest (surviving just a thousand years by contrast is nothing!), etc.

 

3) They lived in protected villages and made travel taboo (witness reaction to Takua).

 

4) They had six wise elders who they all trusted implicitly, who could warn them of what not to do.

 

 

Of course, then you've got Takua... and lava surfing in general () and some wild Rahi not under Makuta's control, and cliffs... but I don't think these count as Mata Nui specific issues, since similar dangers existed over those 100,000+ years and most survived. (You had a few like Ihu that died though.)

[Kopekemaster]

 

 

To stop curious Matoran from wandering were they shouldn't go.

I can see that happening. That begs the question, though, why were the messages only written in a few places (that we saw, at least)? I mean, the entire island was going to be razed by Bohrok, so what made those specific places more of a "danger area" than others?

 

Perhaps the ginormous cliff nearby had something to do with it.

 

*Bohrok back Matoran against cliff*

 

Matoran: Maybe I should have paid attention to the "Beware the Swarm" sign a while back. That might have been helpful.

 

lol yeah that could be.

 

 

 

what made those specific places more of a "danger area" than others?

Who says they were?

 

They might have been. We know there was one Bohrok nest directly below Ko-Wahi -- it could very well have been in that region of the Drifts. Perhaps there some such carving near all the major nest tunnels?

 

This also seems like a good possibility. Now I sort of want to headcanon there being these random ominous signs in each Wahi.

[Sir Kohran]

 

 

First, he wasn't really advertising his future-sight abilities. He'd always had issues with it, and he pretended he used his sacred fire for it for the villagers' sake.

 

The warnings were completely anonymous, so they would hardly be 'advertising' anything about him.

 

 

 

Second, the warnings aren't relevant only to his villagers; are you suggesting he would put them as a higher priority?

 

No, I just think that if he was planting warnings, he'd surely start in the area he was most familiar with.

 

 

 

We don't know that it was "way out." It was near enough that Matoro could plant enough of those red flags to lead right past it on his way to that camping spot of his. And I don't recall a huge amount of those flags clicking to it.

 

It's in a snow field of unclear size that's reached from a path in the mountain slopes that joins a clifftop that the Sanctum tunnel opens up to. That's pretty remote from the village.

 

 

 

Plus, doesn't it show up after you get lost or something? It could be right next to the entrance practically.

 

Entrance to what? I think I've established it's not near the village entrance.

 

 

 

But again, why is this a problem anyways?

 

Your argument was that the warnings were there for the Matoran to see. The problem's that at least one of them is in a place almost no Matoran would visit.

 

 

 

The fact is somebody carved it and put it there, and somebody is known to pass by it all the time. Somebody directly tied to Vakama, who probably knew about it.

 

There's no need to warn somebody who already knows.

 

 

 

Would it feel so important and mysterious to you if it was a placard in the middle of the village(s?) with Turaga Vakama's signature?

 

No, but that would be more realistic if it was meant to be him responsible for it.

[bonesiii]

The warnings were completely anonymous, so they would hardly be 'advertising' anything about him.

Koh, I hope we're not going down one of those endless back-and-forth rabbit holes here. I stand by my suggestion as the most likely solution. Can we ask other questions and wonder about the details? Sure. But doing that doesn't change that it's still the most likely answer, right?

 

Anyways, I'll answer to the specifics, but I hope this isn't Wonderland. I don't get how you can simultaneously argue that the warning should be physically near where Vakama lives if Vakama was the source of intel, and yet also say that this would make it "completely anonymous." Wouldn't random other places be even more anonymous?

 

But perhaps its placement has more to do with the future focus of Ko-Matoran than who actually was the source (just like the Wall of Prophecy)? Especially at the other end of a tunnel that starts out IN that very wall!

 

No, I just think that if he was planting warnings, he'd surely start in the area he was most familiar with.

But:

 

1) Who said he had to be the one personally planting the warnings?

2) Above "anonymity" issue (maybe it makes more sense to start near the Wall of Prophecy?).

3) How do you know he didn't make one near Ta-Koro?

4) And if he did, how do you know which came first?

 

We don't have information for this to be relevant, Koh. All we know is two places where they are and that likely candidates for how they got there are on the island. I think you're really overthinking it.

 

Actually, there is a Bohrok image on the Great Telescope's base in Ta-Wahi. (I don't think we know if those carvings were added by the Matoran and/or Turaga or were part of it, but I think their connection to Mata Nui island events means probably Matoran/Turaga -- likely cooperation between Nixie and Vakama (or intel from Vakama through Nokama perhaps).

 

I think I've established it's not near the village entrance.

I'm not so sure, but here's a way to check. Count the steps and factor for the visibility problem (so those flags should be close by). How many does it take to get to this part?

 

Your argument was that the warnings were there for the Matoran to see. The problem's that at least one of them is in a place almost no Matoran would visit.

Well, over a thousand years, that's highly unlikely (esp. given the placement), but I don't think this is strong enough, even if we take it, to go for a random generation solution or something. What alternative ideas would fit this better?

 

And since Vakama's visions are in play, I don't think we should make any assumptions here. The one Matoran who did need to know it, saw it, right there, and in the right time. In fact, you could make a case that's even better -- since the other Matoran would get time to hear about the warnings (plus this one had recently lost his memories), perhaps only Takua needed that particular one. But I wouldn't rely on this either -- for all we know somebody (Nuju, Matoro, or maybe Vakama) just figured it was fitting to have it near a connection to WoProph. Or maybe Vakama just had a vague feeling one should be in that place. (His visions aren't always crystal clear, remember.)

 

There's no need to warn somebody who already knows.

I presume you mean Matoro here, but that wasn't what I was suggesting. I was saying, he's a likely candidate for who carved it. He had the knowledge, he's in the area often, it's connected to prophesy by location choice, and over a thousand years most Ko-Matoran would probably have seen it.

 

No, but that would be more realistic if it was meant to be him responsible for it.

Hangsec -- you may be implying here that I'm saying the MNOG makers had to have this in mind. No.

 

Anyways, this seems to me to be oversimplistic. Realism isn't determined just by one consideration alone. The real world in fact works in the opposite way.

[Sir Kohran]

 

 

1) Who said he had to be the one personally planting the warnings?

 

You suggested he was responsible for it in your first post in this topic. You didn't say outright that he planted them personally, but he'd probably have to if he wanted to avoid questions being asked.

 

 

 

2) Above "anonymity" issue (maybe it makes more sense to start near the Wall of Prophecy?).

 

I suppose that might be a vague clue, but given that Vakama attributed all his knowledge to his fire in his room (as a cover for his visions) the Matoran might not make the connection between him and something found out in the Wahi.

 

 

 

3) How do you know he didn't make one near Ta-Koro?

 

Because we never saw one. You shouldn't something unless it's stated, or at least suggested.

 

 

 

4) And if he did, how do you know which came first?

 

I don't see how that matters.

 

 

 

All we know is two places where they are and that likely candidates for how they got there are on the island. I think you're really overthinking it.

 

I'm just questioning the candidate(s) you seem to have settled on.

 

 

 

Actually, there is a Bohrok image on the Great Telescope's base in Ta-Wahi. (I don't think we know if those carvings were added by the Matoran and/or Turaga or were part of it, but I think their connection to Mata Nui island events means probably Matoran/Turaga -- likely cooperation between Nixie and Vakama (or intel from Vakama through Nokama perhaps).

 

Are the images around the base really there (ie, canon) or just something for the player? I ask because one of the images is (correct me if I'm wrong) of the robot's face, and that's not something any of the Turaga/Matoran were aware of during their stay on the island.

 

 

 

I'm not so sure, but here's a way to check. Count the steps and factor for the visibility problem (so those flags should be close by). How many does it take to get to this part?

 

The tunnel is three screens, the clifftop/pass three, then you need to pass three flags to find the warning stone.

 

 

 

Well, over a thousand years, that's highly unlikely (esp. given the placement), but I don't think this is strong enough, even if we take it, to go for a random generation solution or something. What alternative ideas would fit this better?

 

If you're asking what I'd put the warnings down to, I think the theory about them being a method to keep the Matoran inside the robot sounds reasonable.

 

 

 

And since Vakama's visions are in play, I don't think we should make any assumptions here. The one Matoran who did need to know it, saw it, right there, and in the right time. In fact, you could make a case that's even better -- since the other Matoran would get time to hear about the warnings (plus this one had recently lost his memories), perhaps only Takua needed that particular one.

 

Why exactly did Takua need to see it? He doesn't seem to have warned any of the others about the Bohrok after seeing the warnings, and when he finally encounters the Bohrok it's simply because he happened to be there after seeing the Makuta confrontation.

 

 

 

I presume you mean Matoro here, but that wasn't what I was suggesting. I was saying, he's a likely candidate for who carved it. 

 

Carving isn't a Ko-Matoran talent. I think Onewa (as a carver) would be the most likely candidate, though I don't think it matters much anyhow.

 

 

 

over a thousand years most Ko-Matoran would probably have seen it.

 

That's only assuming it was put there at the start of the thousand years, and we have no clues as to that.

 

 

 

Hangsec -- you may be implying here that I'm saying the MNOG makers had to have this in mind. No.

 

Do you think they had anyone responsible in mind? Given that an answer was never provided I somehow doubt they did.

[Boidoh]

 

 

It adds a lot more mystery if some crazy Matoran gets lost in the Drifts, and as their final words carves the message from their visions into a rock.

 

This would require a dead Matoran; I think it's been established that no Matoran died in the thousand year stay on Mata Nui.

 

I asked Greg if any Matoran died on Mata Nui during the 1000 year stay, besides Jala, a while back. He said "probably".

[Click]

Let me take a stab at this:

 

3) How do you know he didn't make one near Ta-Koro?

 
Because we never saw one.   You shouldn't something unless it's stated, or at least suggested.

 

 
I suppose it is a valid reason (for a video game), but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It would be much more forgetful if you just found it wandering around Ta-Wahi, unless it was in the Charred Forest (because that's pretty close to what the Drifts are to Ko-Wahi)

 

4) And if he did, how do you know which came first?

 
I don't see how that matters.

 

 
Because you just said he should have posted it in Ta-Koro first. Maybe he did, we just never found one in Ta-Koro.
 

 

I presume you mean Matoro here, but that wasn't what I was suggesting. I was saying, he's a likely candidate for who carved it.

 
Carving isn't a Ko-Matoran talent. I think Onewa (as a carver) would be the most likely candidate, though I don't think it matters much anyhow.

 

Again, big Wall of Prophesy. Carved by Ko-Matoran. Kopeke also was known to carve ice sculptures. It's one thing that made him a candidate for the Chronicler's Co.

 

I always assumed that the Drifts were randomized. I've been stuck in there for like ten minutes (probably because I was wandering around too much ).

[Rahkshi Lalonde]

 

 

It adds a lot more mystery if some crazy Matoran gets lost in the Drifts, and as their final words carves the message from their visions into a rock.

 

This would require a dead Matoran; I think it's been established that no Matoran died in the thousand year stay on Mata Nui.

 

I asked Greg if any Matoran died on Mata Nui during the 1000 year stay, besides Jala, a while back. He said "probably".

 

 

question, which greg do we listen to now?

[bonesiii]

 

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1) Who said he had to be the one personally planting the warnings?

 

You suggested he was responsible for it in your first post in this topic. You didn't say outright that he planted them personally, but he'd probably have to if he wanted to avoid questions being asked.

So basically, you're saying it. Understood.

 

I don't think it works though. I was picturing him mentioning it in a Turaga meeting, and they collectively agree (based on past proofs that his visions matter, of course; they didn't all start out liking them, heh) to put some warnings somewhere. You seem to be making it sound like he would go behind the other Turaga's backs on this. I don't see why he would, but even if you want to imagine that scenario, it's certainly not necessary to the basic theory.

 

I suppose that might be a vague clue, but given that Vakama attributed all his knowledge to his fire in his room (as a cover for his visions) the Matoran might not make the connection between him and something found out in the Wahi.

Well sure... and how much more something not even in his Wahi?

 

 

 

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3) How do you know he didn't make one near Ta-Koro?

 

Because we never saw one. You shouldn't [i think you meant "assume" here] something unless it's stated, or at least suggested.

Now pay attention here, because it seems you're getting very mixed up. I wasn't assuming anything. I'm saying we know of two, and where they are, and here's the most likely factors that we do know of that could explain it. I'm not saying one way or another whether there were others (although the telescope thing could be taken as a vaguer one I suppose).

 

I brought up that question because you said as if it was a fact that there aren't others elsewhere. It's you who's assuming that. And because -you- (pardon the emphasis here, it's not meant as emotionalism but to be crystal clear as it seemed you were getting mixed up ) suggested reasoning (that I don't buy) that if the intel comes from him, warnings have to be in his Wahi, then to test your idea there, it's important to point out that you can't assume there aren't others.

 

Especially because at least one of the ones we know of, you yourself are saying is in a hard-to-see place. (And to an extent that's true.) So wouldn't the hypothesis that he made one in his Wahi mean that it might also be in a place Takua didn't happen to look at during MNOG?

 

But I'm not saying any of that is necessary. You have to build on way too many assumptions to say Vakama would do that (or even likely). For all we know the Turaga decided NOT to make warnings, but Nuju and Matau disobeyed lol (I doubt that too... just sayin').

 

 

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4) And if he did, how do you know which came first?

 

I don't see how that matters.

Sigh... this is looking a lot like one of those rabbit holes. I don't get why you do this sometimes, Koh. You brought up the idea that Ta would have to be first. Now you don't see why it would matter that you don't know which came first? It was your idea -- isn't it reasonable of me to expect you to have thought this through? This seems like bias... and I don't see why you would have a bias here, even.

 

Are the images around the base really there (ie, canon)

Remember the rule for MNOG -- canon unless contradicted elsewhere (well, in canon ).

 

I ask because one of the images is (correct me if I'm wrong) of the robot's face, and that's not something any of the Turaga/Matoran were aware of during their stay on the island.

Well, that's a whole 'nother tangent. This is getting complex enough, I'd rather pass for now except to say, I don't take the Bohrok symbol as necessarily counting as a warning anyways (doesn't say beware... I suppose implied that things in that carving are generally bad but eh...).

 

the clifftop/pass three, then you need to pass three flags to find the warning stone.

Were all of those in the thick falling snow? I forget.

 

If you're asking what I'd put the warnings down to, I think the theory about them being a method to keep the Matoran inside the robot sounds reasonable.

To an extent, but I see several issues, probably the first being that the stones in question just look like normal stones that are found laying around all over the place on the island, not something deployed like the Kini-Nui. Did some system carve such messages anew every time the camouflage island was made?

 

I think something like the Order doing it would make more sense. But I don't think it's as good a fit as the Turaga.

 

Why exactly did Takua need to see it?

Besides the answer I already gave (I presume you just hadn't read it yet when you typed this), keep in mind the entire game is through the POV of Takua. So it seems likely that, regardless of how the MNOG makers intended it to originate (if they worried about it at all), they did intend it to be important to Takua. And their game ended (almost at the end anyways) with that scene with the Bohrok. And the Le warning (I think) was the "wake one wake all" which clearly echoed what seemed (to Takua) to be going on in that scene. I think it's clear they intended that connection.

 

As for the Ko one, I dunno, but probably reinforcement and building.

 

He doesn't seem to have warned any of the others about the Bohrok after seeing the warnings

No, but he doesn't need to in order for the warning to matter for him and history that depends on him not getting himself killed... but my main reason for quoting this is, I don't think we should be making too much of the usually silent game protagonist not talking a lot as far as we're shown. (Plus, he had just lost his memory and knew it... he could have assumed everybody already knew about them, and they probably did.)

 

Carving isn't a Ko-Matoran talent.

Now Kohran, yagotta admit this is really stretching. (Wall of prophecy??)

 

I think Onewa (as a carver) would be the most likely candidate, though I don't think it matters much anyhow.

Yeehhhhhh.... You could make a case, but carving is a general Matoran (/Turaga) behavior.

 

That's only assuming it was put there at the start of the thousand years

Good point. But then we don't know anyways that it had to be seen by a lot, ever. (And all it takes is one. )

 

Do you think they had anyone responsible in mind?

Yes, but it's not much help. They seemed to think there were to be "ancient carvers", as in past generations on the island. That was not canonically approved, but probably what they had in mind.

 

Given that an answer was never provided I somehow doubt they did.

I wouldn't really expect that to be explained either way.

 

I asked Greg if any Matoran died on Mata Nui during the 1000 year stay, besides Jala, a while back. He said "probably".

I think in that case it's best to use his rule about past answers and not take that too seriously. He previously confirmed that none did. (Doesn't really matter here anyways.)