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So, if you've noticed, the Masks of Power are rather bland. There's a Mask of Fire, Water, Jungle, etc. etc.

 

But then there's the Masks of Creation and Control, which aren't elemental. 

 

So, here's my theory. Other teams of Masters have different mask abilities. The Protectors all probably have the "noble" form of a certain type of mask (perhaps this gen's equivalent of a Kanohi Hau) and the Golden Masks each contain different mask abilities akin to those of the original masks (though I'd assume that the Golden Jungle and Golden Water masks don't have levitation and water-breathing, since Lewa can already fly and I'll bet you that Gali can already breathe underwater)

 

When Wave 2 comes out with whatever new Toa we'll be seeing, they'll probably go back to whatever mask they were using in Gen 1. I suppose the only reason to have an elemental mask is to enhance your natural powers.

 

What do you think?


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This is complete speculation, so I'm not sure where the word theory comes in. Also, I think this is probably mainly wishful thinking based on nostalgia for classic Bionicle. Given that masks the Toa have were deliberately introduced as different from the original run of Bionicle, I don't see why a sudden reversal would occur.

 

~B~

Edited by Ballom
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I agree with your first point, but for your second point, I mean that if we get a new Vakama set, he'll get back his Huna, but Tahu will still have his Fire mask.

 

And nostalgia? What nostalgia? I don't have nostalgia! Heh heh heh... Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to finish my 5ft tall MOC of the Mata Nui robot, complete with custom gear action and hollow interior spher-I mean... do homework. 

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I agree with your first point, but for your second point, I mean that if we get a new Vakama set, he'll get back his Huna, but Tahu will still have his Fire mask.

But there's nothing to lead to that conclusion. He could just as easily have another Mask of Fire if he were to appear. We currently have only an anecdote in the Toa Okoto rather than actual data from multiple teams of Toa.

 

~B~

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I'm inclined to agree with Ballom. As far as we know, the Masters are the only Toa on okoto. Just like nobody in 2001 saw the 2004 storyline, guessing at a similar twist for gen2 is nostalgia talking, not any logic or reasoning.

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:r: :e: :g: :i: :t: :n: :u: :i:

Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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So, if you've noticed, the Masks of Power are rather bland. There's a Mask of Fire, Water, Jungle, etc. etc.

I don't know that bland is the right word. More like confusing, since us old Gen1 types are used to the elements being in the Toa, not the mask, and we don't yet know enough to figure out what the new system is or whether it makes sense. But before 2001 started we knew even less... so yeah. :P

 

Actually IMO the idea of elemental masks is pretty cool. Probably bias speaking since I had come up with the idea myself for my fanfics; it's awesome for me to see it becoming reality (and not just the exception of the Mask of Light or the theoretical mask versions of the Toa Disks).

 

But then there's the Masks of Creation and Control, which aren't elemental.

Hm... not sure we should be leaping to that conclusion. It seems the more logical view, but without confirmation I wouldn't be sure. The promo video could be taken as implying all masks are elemental, by Gen2 rules. (Though I take it as more likely just implying that being elemental is optional, but if maskmakers did use that option, the limit would then come into play.)

 

So, here's my theory. Other teams of Masters have different mask abilities.

Seems reasonable... but we cannot extrapolate from this: 1) that other Toa even exist in the Okotoverse... prooobably, but we can't be sure yet, unless it's been confirmed already. 2) What other things count as elements... or abilities.

 

The Protectors all probably have the "noble" form of a certain type of mask (perhaps this gen's equivalent of a Kanohi Hau)

I... was about to say this is going out on a rather speculative limb... although I suppose the association of the Hau with protecting, and its prevalence in Gen1 (combined with Gen1's occasionally use of callbacks) does at least give a tidbit of evidence. :shrugs:

 

and the Golden Masks each contain different mask abilities akin to those of the original masks (though I'd assume that the Golden Jungle and Golden Water masks don't have levitation and water-breathing, since Lewa can already fly and I'll bet you that Gali can already breathe underwater)

I'm not sure what you're saying here. When you say "akin to those of the original masks", do you mean the Gen1 Golden Kanohi? Or the Gen1 normal masks for the Toa Mata? Your parenthetical could be taken to imply either way, though I'm thinking the latter. And speaking of that part, I dunno about Lewa, but why would we assume Gali can breathe water? That part definitely seems speculative to me. And not too sure of the flight either... I'm probably forgetting something that already confirmed it though... just playing it safe. :P

 

When Wave 2 comes out with whatever new Toa we'll be seeing, they'll probably go back to whatever mask they were using in Gen 1. I suppose the only reason to have an elemental mask is to enhance your natural powers.

Other reasons have been suggested. We don't yet know (or I don't) that Gen2 Toa have innate elemental powers at all; perhaps they need the elemental masks to function as Toa at all. Who knows? Or there might be a general rule that Toa of an element are expected to have masks of that element.

 

What you suggest is possible, but I wouldn't call it probable.

 

I agree with your first point, but for your second point, I mean that if we get a new Vakama set, he'll get back his Huna, but Tahu will still have his Fire mask.

But there's nothing to lead to that conclusion. He could just as easily have another Mask of Fire if he were to appear.

Actually, come to think of it, what you say here may point to a possible problem with that; the shapes of the masks in Gen2 (for the Toa) have clearly been callbacks to the Gen1 shapes those characters wore as heroes, but the shape of Tahu Okoto's mask on a Gen2 Toa Vakama's face may contradict that principle as it wouldn't look like a Huna.

 

But anyways, I don't think we should be expecting the Toa Metru to happen again. Could happen, but personally some other (probably new) team is more likely, if they don't just do what HF does. I think it's stretching the callback logic to expect that. (Although please note that there IS a logic to this, given what we've seen so far of Gen2, not just nostalgia. Don't be so quick with the nostalgia trigger. :P Or rather, keep in mind, to be more technical, that the Gen2 people have shown a tendency to intentionally honor nostalgia, heh.)

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So, here's my theory. Other teams of Masters have different mask abilities. The Protectors all probably have the "noble" form of a certain type of mask (perhaps this gen's equivalent of a Kanohi Hau) and the Golden Masks each contain different mask abilities akin to those of the original masks (though I'd assume that the Golden Jungle and Golden Water masks don't have levitation and water-breathing, since Lewa can already fly and I'll bet you that Gali can already breathe underwater)

Er, the Legend video implies that Ekimu and Makuta made multiple Masks of Power, and that anyone could use them. I'm not sure why they would make weaker Noble Masks for them, especially if Makuta and Ekimu were Protectors themselves. 

 

Also, masks plural were scattered. This seems to imply that all of the masks currently made are hidden, not in the Protectors' hands. But logically they would have found some of them by now. 

 

And nostalgia? What nostalgia? I don't have nostalgia! Heh heh heh... Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to finish my 5ft tall MOC of the Mata Nui robot, complete with custom gear action and hollow interior spher-I mean... do homework.

You have what? *looks on intensely*

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I mean that the Gold masks have the original Mata powers; Golden Fire=Hau, etc. etc. We won't know till the TV series comes out.

 

As for Gali breathing underwater, look at the comic on the back of Gali's box. It looks like they're spending a lot of time underwater without resurfacing.


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That pic is here.

 

But how do you get a lot of time out of a few slides of a comic that has to fit onto the back of a box? :P

 

Why not take this as probably holding her breath? In fact it almost exactly parallels an event in the 2001 comics (second, I think), where Lewa dives underwater for a mask, holding his breath.

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As for Gali breathing underwater, look at the comic on the back of Gali's box. It looks like they're spending a lot of time underwater without resurfacing.

Fictional characters routinely can hold their breath for extremely implausible amounts of time. Especially if they're mostly robotic (lungs of steel!). I really don't see that being evidence one way or another.

 

~B~

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If they are mostly robotic, then they wouldn't need to breathe (one of the problems of G1 that I hope gets fixed in G2) which brings us right back around to the speculation that if the gold masks have powers, Gali's wouldn't have waterbreathing.


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If they are mostly robotic, then they wouldn't need to breathe

No... the organic parts would need the benefit of breathing. :)

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If they are mostly robotic, then they wouldn't need to breathe

No... the organic parts would need the benefit of breathing. :)

 

Yeah, you got a huge misconception here. Bionicle characters are just organic dudes with built-in mechanical armor.

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If they are mostly robotic, then they wouldn't need to breathe

No... the organic parts would need the benefit of breathing. :)

 

Yeah, you got a huge misconception here. Bionicle characters are just organic dudes with built-in mechanical armor.

 

Those were the Glatorian/Agori. They were organic with mechanical implants. The MU inhabitants were essentially mechanical beings with organic implants, if that makes sense. :P The ratio is as follows: MU beings=85% mechanical/15%organic, while SM beings were 85% organic/15%mechanical.

 

This does bring up the question of how LEGO will approach this concept in G2. Will they be all organic with armor? Or will they be biomechanical, like in G1? The look of the new heads suggests the latter, but then, look at the "organic" Glatorian heads...


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I can see the SM beings needing air to breathe, but MU? I never got that. 

 

Plus, looking at the Village of Water pic on BS01, it looks like the Ga-Protectors live underwater, not just on the surface. Unless those little domes are airtight, I highly doubt that they can't breathe water.


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If they are mostly robotic, then they wouldn't need to breathe

No... the organic parts would need the benefit of breathing. :)

Yeah, you got a huge misconception here. Bionicle characters are just organic dudes with built-in mechanical armor.

I presume this is directed at the "robotic" in the post I quoted -- I know it's really biomechanical but as that's such common knowledge I figure it doesn't need corrected every time somebody calls it robotic. They might have had that as a misconception, though, yeah.

 

If by weird chance you actually thought I was under a misconception, T1S answered it. :)

 

I can see the SM beings needing air to breathe, but MU? I never got that.

Again, the MU beings had organic parts, so it makes sense this part would need to breathe. Oxygen is also highly reactive and even for "nanotech" that isn't biological (under the molecular interpretation of protodermis, which Greg originally had confirmed but later forgetconned to uncertainty), it could greatly improve energy gained, such as to run some of the tech side components (like the heartlight).

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And speaking of that part, I dunno about Lewa, but why would we assume Gali can breathe water? That part definitely seems speculative to me. And not too sure of the flight either... I'm probably forgetting something that already confirmed it though... just playing it safe. :P

 

Lewa's tools become wings that at the very least help him glide.

 

 

Actually, come to think of it, what you say here may point to a possible problem with that; the shapes of the masks in Gen2 (for the Toa) have clearly been callbacks to the Gen1 shapes those characters wore as heroes, but the shape of Tahu Okoto's mask on a Gen2 Toa Vakama's face may contradict that principle as it wouldn't look like a Huna.

That's assuming form is tied to function. The site implies the Protector's masks are also elementally-powered, so I don't think Gen2 cares about shape-to-power as much. If we got another Toa Team (which I don't think we will; I think they know better than to repeat Bionicle's habit of throwing old characters under the bus to bring in new characters) they could just as likely have new mask shapes while still having the same elemental powers.

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^And levitation one of the Mask of Jungle's abilities -- the description does say it let's the user "commune with the winds"


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When Wave 2 comes out with whatever new Toa we'll be seeing, they'll probably go back to whatever mask they were using in Gen 1. I suppose the only reason to have an elemental mask is to enhance your natural powers.

Other reasons have been suggested. We don't yet know (or I don't) that Gen2 Toa have innate elemental powers at all; perhaps they need the elemental masks to function as Toa at all. Who knows? Or there might be a general rule that Toa of an element are expected to have masks of that element.

 

What you suggest is possible, but I wouldn't call it probable.

 

This is how I think the elemental powers and masks might work next year:

 

- Both Protectors (see promotional material in the back of the instruction booklets uploaded on the BIONICLE website) and Toa can use their respective elements.

- Said elemental abilities are tied solely to the masks - without the masks, these beings cannot command the elements.

- The Protectors' masks have significantly less power than the masks the Toa wear, and as a result, the Protectors can't just totally wreck the Skull Spiders that are invading the island.

- The golden masks somehow power up the Toa, giving them more power (elemental or otherwise, I really have no clue - the comics don't give any indication whatsoever).

 

This is all conjecture, although I am basing all of this on the very sparse information we have currently, considering the names of the masks and the promotional material.

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As for Gali breathing underwater, look at the comic on the back of Gali's box. It looks like they're spending a lot of time underwater without resurfacing.

Fictional characters routinely can hold their breath for extremely implausible amounts of time. Especially if they're mostly robotic (lungs of steel!). I really don't see that being evidence one way or another.

 

~B~

 

Guybrush Threepword could hold his breath for several minutes. Maybe because he is awesome.


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If they are mostly robotic, then they wouldn't need to breathe

No... the organic parts would need the benefit of breathing. :)

 

Yeah, you got a huge misconception here. Bionicle characters are just organic dudes with built-in mechanical armor.

 

Those were the Glatorian/Agori. They were organic with mechanical implants. The MU inhabitants were essentially mechanical beings with organic implants, if that makes sense. :P The ratio is as follows: MU beings=85% mechanical/15%organic, while SM beings were 85% organic/15%mechanical.

 

This does bring up the question of how LEGO will approach this concept in G2. Will they be all organic with armor? Or will they be biomechanical, like in G1? The look of the new heads suggests the latter, but then, look at the "organic" Glatorian heads...

 

Even if most of their body mass is their armor, they are still (semi)organic. Sure, only about a fifth of their body is organic, but att the very least to breathe, as seen at the point (in Reign of Darkness, I think?) where Lewa keeps the lot of beings he's marooned with in space alive by providing air for them to breathe.

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If they are mostly robotic, then they wouldn't need to breathe

No... the organic parts would need the benefit of breathing. :)

 

Yeah, you got a huge misconception here. Bionicle characters are just organic dudes with built-in mechanical armor.

 

Those were the Glatorian/Agori. They were organic with mechanical implants. The MU inhabitants were essentially mechanical beings with organic implants, if that makes sense. :P The ratio is as follows: MU beings=85% mechanical/15%organic, while SM beings were 85% organic/15%mechanical.

 

This does bring up the question of how LEGO will approach this concept in G2. Will they be all organic with armor? Or will they be biomechanical, like in G1? The look of the new heads suggests the latter, but then, look at the "organic" Glatorian heads...

 

Even if most of their body mass is their armor, they are still (semi)organic. Sure, only about a fifth of their body is organic, but att the very least to breathe, as seen at the point (in Reign of Darkness, I think?) where Lewa keeps the lot of beings he's marooned with in space alive by providing air for them to breathe.

 

But they are not like us. We're organic, technically. They are mechanical with built in organics, not the other way around, as you seem to think.

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If they are mostly robotic, then they wouldn't need to breathe

No... the organic parts would need the benefit of breathing. :)

 

Yeah, you got a huge misconception here. Bionicle characters are just organic dudes with built-in mechanical armor.

 

Those were the Glatorian/Agori. They were organic with mechanical implants. The MU inhabitants were essentially mechanical beings with organic implants, if that makes sense. :P The ratio is as follows: MU beings=85% mechanical/15%organic, while SM beings were 85% organic/15%mechanical.

 

This does bring up the question of how LEGO will approach this concept in G2. Will they be all organic with armor? Or will they be biomechanical, like in G1? The look of the new heads suggests the latter, but then, look at the "organic" Glatorian heads...

 

Even if most of their body mass is their armor, they are still (semi)organic. Sure, only about a fifth of their body is organic, but att the very least to breathe, as seen at the point (in Reign of Darkness, I think?) where Lewa keeps the lot of beings he's marooned with in space alive by providing air for them to breathe.

 

But they are not like us. We're organic, technically. They are mechanical with built in organics, not the other way around, as you seem to think.

 

So you're saying that they're pretty much robots with small parts of them organic? Hmmm...

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If they are mostly robotic, then they wouldn't need to breathe

No... the organic parts would need the benefit of breathing. :)

 

Yeah, you got a huge misconception here. Bionicle characters are just organic dudes with built-in mechanical armor.

 

Those were the Glatorian/Agori. They were organic with mechanical implants. The MU inhabitants were essentially mechanical beings with organic implants, if that makes sense. :P The ratio is as follows: MU beings=85% mechanical/15%organic, while SM beings were 85% organic/15%mechanical.

 

This does bring up the question of how LEGO will approach this concept in G2. Will they be all organic with armor? Or will they be biomechanical, like in G1? The look of the new heads suggests the latter, but then, look at the "organic" Glatorian heads...

 

Even if most of their body mass is their armor, they are still (semi)organic. Sure, only about a fifth of their body is organic, but att the very least to breathe, as seen at the point (in Reign of Darkness, I think?) where Lewa keeps the lot of beings he's marooned with in space alive by providing air for them to breathe.

 

But they are not like us. We're organic, technically. They are mechanical with built in organics, not the other way around, as you seem to think.

 

So you're saying that they're pretty much robots with small parts of them organic? Hmmm...

 

Well, yeah. We've known this since at least '03, and it was only cemented in later years.

 

The Glatorian/Agori/Skrall do not follow this rule, as they are natural beings, while the MU inhabitants are artificial. I suggest you check the associated pages over on here.

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Whoa there. Easy on the nested quotes, folks.

 

And yes, they are biomechanical beings (MU ones), not primarily organic. I wouldn't call them robots since that usually implies electronics (or whatever the Bohrok have that is 100% non-biological other than the Krana), but "basically mechanical with some organic components" is a good way to say it.

 

It's kind of like Voyager in Star Trek. The ship had some neural gel packs to enhance its computing, but you would think of it as a machine starship with some organic parts, not an organic being with some tech.

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